 Podcasts round table round 109 Can Google double your podcast audience? Probably a little misleading. I like to do that a little clickbait gets Thousands of people to the show Dave. No never but their real mission is to well They say it's their real mission We still we've been waiting for any mission to land and save us from this desolate podcast planet of no listenership But they say they want to actually increase the number of all podcast listeners by two Times they want to double it in the next couple years. Yeah, like I said I'm not sure we want to hold our breath with it being Google But cool, we've been waiting for that and in fact I think they may have been listening to the round table because they're doing something that that I've said They should be doing for a long time. So I want my cut of the Google money Before any this works out really well, let's meet the round table Dave Jackson co-host welcome back Yeah, Dave Jackson from the school of podcasting dot com Round table or Jonathan welcome to the round table. Yes a Jonathan boom of week is awesome The dot com and definitely honored to be here. I've listened to Many of the episodes like I started listening last October. Just have listened to every episode Since I come out and I've listened to all the shows to like Listen to your show of listen to Dave's show listen to Daniel show every show out there Awesome. Cool. Thank you so much the band bandwidth is dropping all of a sudden Is it me or you and that's a problem? You never know with these things Is it coming through fine on your gun? It was it's a little wonky every now and then we hit start Well, I sort of kind of gave Google a hard time Hangouts knows that I said, you know what Ray? You know, you want to criticize? We'll show you what criticizing looks like. They're always listening They're always listening and that you know, we could launch into a whole conversation about smart speakers about always listening But anyways, all right, my phone is right here on the desk. It's not an Android though. We'll talk about that, too All right speaking of let me talk about The format here. We switched as of the last round table when I say switch we're doing something a little different again This should be a place to experiment with podcast and podcasting up through a hundred and seven rounds we did Topics sort of a there was a topic Kind of like I brought up at the beginning here where I said well Google and you know double the The amount of podcasts your podcast listeners and we kind of talk about that It's just a topic that led us to talk about broader issues of any one podcast topic and so 107 Rounds of that and eventually it kind of gets harder to pick topics where we invite people on and they want to Talk about different topics. We started to see the same thing. So mixing it up a little we hit the next century and Through this one, we're gonna cruise through news But I want to keep the round table DNA intact and so the idea is that we we approach Recent podcast stories we talk about that but hopefully we look we take something from that news Which is not evergreen right news dies But we pluck out a broader issue that we can again use as sort of a launching point To talk deeper about so we're gonna talk about you know Recent news of Google having a new yet another strategy for for doing something with podcast But what does that really mean to podcasters and podcast producers? Not just this one time maybe the last time they did it next time they do it whatever, you know That's what we're looking for so maintaining again that core DNA of the round table where we bring on Guests from the community podcasters round table comm slash guest if you want to sign up now It will ask you to submit a topic that still helps But it's gonna be easier to get more people on because now you just need to grab a couple of news stories Have thought about them a little bit and and we'll jump off from there and and talk about that So hopefully that works for everyone. Let me know I've got some good feedback so far people are enjoying it So hopefully you're learning along the way because I am always learning with new roundtablers. That's the key and we have another new one I think I'll full roundtable Ryan Ryan. What's up? Nothing much right? How's it going? Good? You sound great? So what's your podcast Ryan? Disney and review. It's a Disney history podcast Fantastic, look at that seamless sometimes we bring in the people in the middle of show and it's a little it's a little Live you get the live experience of doing that, but Ryan total pro we're in so everyone looking good I've exchanged my PR 40 for shotgun microphone just just today doing some stings are different But Jonathan he brought the PR 40 and he sounds great So, you know for the nerds who are wondering what what mics are using and you're not watching the video because you should be watching YouTube comm slash podcast is roundtable. We should check out the video. I mean Dave's got his own swag He's wearing tonight. That's it. I'm wearing also wearing Dave's swag because technically it's a lips and shirts All right, well, hey, so I want to it's not make the title of the round because I have to pick something out of the new Stories to make a title. I still like that But I'm put that story up front. It's not clickbait like oh, you know That's the fifth story when you get to you have to listen to 40 minutes now. We start off with it So this Google doubling podcast Downloads or listeners whatever Dave. I think you initially put this one on the list Why don't you tell us a little bit about it? Well, what it is is it looks like this is something new and The well, that's the thing this isn't really that new if you there's a thing in the I was trying to find In the story There's a link where they say make sure your homepage follows these guidelines and these guidelines have been around for a while Because I went to put them in my website and they were already there and I'm like, okay I don't remember when I did this but obviously this has been around for a while Yeah, I think in back channel conversations with Daniel. He's not with us today, but I think he mentioned this is like Easily been around for a last year Yeah, I'm trying to now. There's no date which is fine because you know what is new What is news to most people in podcasting is is old news to us so it can still be new news What I actually like about the article and it depends on where you Consume it because I think it's on medium and there's a couple different places, but it's by the specific content Company or whatever what I really enjoyed about it is it let me see I don't have an Android device So it gave me a great breakdown of what the experience is like on an Android for kind of finding a podcast natively Which I hadn't seen before and maybe that was in an article a year ago, but they broke it down really well So anyways Dave well the the part that's kind of confusing and and this this round actually cost me 99 bucks Because I couldn't handle it. I had to go out and buy well I mean like that is like pennies. That's a fraction of your pay. Yeah I mean you I mean you comply are you trying to get a raise for something you already get paid too much to do But what was interesting is the screenshot made it look like you could just go to Google Chrome Type in it was something like podcast hacker or whatever it was in the screenshot And I kept doing it and I'm like look I'm on an Android device now And I cannot recreate what they're showing on their website now So maybe it's a beta thing or something like that and what it turns out is when you fire up your Google device On the tablet. There's actually a spot here that says Google and I was like, oh, so And it's not the same as going to Chrome and going to Google You have to use whatever this thing is called a widget on my the front of my tablet It says Google search though. I mean like I don't know what the difference is but okay You and me both I've had this tablet a whole seven minutes at this point But when I did that then I got the screen so I could if I came here And and search for podcasters round table and what's cool is once you do this And you subscribe to A podcast it will say do you want to put a link to this? Whatever it is app like right is gizmo. It's a web app. Yeah, it puts a Chiclet is that so word is that a thing an icon and I've gone on your screen Yeah, and so once I did that now It's like having an app. So if I do a search here, you can see I'll just excrete for those listening on audio It shows the search results. There are no play buttons. Yeah, that's the problem. Well, hey turn it to a landscape Maybe some weird. It's bad UI And it doesn't even go landscape. So yeah, no play buttons. I mean, I think when we were playing around this with this before Did everything except the play buttons that Jonathan you look like you want to show something we got yeah on mine I've got play buttons on my yeah, you're on a tablet and jade's on a phone. Okay. No, I'm not on a phone I'm on a that's a tablet and it's a galaxy seven elite So but when I clicked on the button that said more episodes then it brought up the gizmo with the play buttons And you'll see there's a subscribe button So that's the cool thing. Okay, but I had to know to click on the results and when I click on subscribe It will say that hey, I'm now subscribed. I've got this little Weird little icon like an antenna in the upper right hand corner Then that takes me back to I believe see this is again. I've just got this tablet I don't know how to go back, right? But so the key here is not really like what we're talking about like the functionality of a play button like so what? I mean, that's cool But the whole idea their strategy and they what does it quote up here? It seems our team's mission is to double the amount of podcast listening in a world over the next couple years That's the product manager Zack. I don't know his last name and it Their idea that's funny because they say podcasts will show up in Google search as first-class citizens Hey, thanks Google. Welcome to the party, right alongside the text image and video results You're used to seeing so in the heyday of video. They actually removed this after a while So maybe we'll get a little love and then they'll take it out But I used to be the top two results a lot for a while there when YouTube was really spinning it were videos I think we're YouTube videos they're kind of saying that's what they're gonna do for podcasts Which this is something I've been talking about for a long time is where I want my money Because I've been saying it only makes sense that based on if you are a podcaster who does good show notes Google there's no reason they Google can't surface the fact that there is a podcast episode again This is another great reason to have a website and to do show notes You should say hey, there's a deep dive into this subject now. Obviously the Holy Grail is them being able to actually Index audio which is everyone trying to do that forever. They'll get there someone will get there But in this case, I think it mainly relies on show notes So how good that will be or not, you know, I think you could crowdsource that and people if they're finding it relevant Whatever all that stuff that Google does but so they're trying to put podcasts Straight because there's just infinitely more Android users than iOS users even though they don't seem to listen to podcast And that's something else they talk about Yeah, but the the cool thing is now that if I just click a button It looks again like it's an app even though it's a web app and of course now You're gonna be surprised that already it has the top podcast and there's our good friend Joe Rogan and For lack of better phrase the usual suspects radio lab planet money This American life, you know, there are some trending podcasts top podcasts and comedy Luckily I don't see any kind of rating system So that's the good news. It's just I don't know how you get to the top I mean people are gonna complain a bunch because they're gonna say They're not helping you know, just like Apple they're they're biased and to the top shows that have money And they're not gonna help us and like look you just have to get over it I think and But because as long as you can be put in front of your niche Yeah And and because I've subscribed to the school of podcasting and podcasters roundtable You are now right at the top when I go into this little web app. So that in itself. I was like, well, this is cool I don't know. It's a seems difficult. Yeah, I wouldn't I went into google play music And couldn't find any podcasts. I was like, oh, I can finally play with this now and it was like no No, that's not surprising. So I was that was my my first 10 minutes in the android world. I'm like Thoroughly confused so And that has probably a lot to do like about 99 uh operator air I think they're also talking about google assistant here, which I guess is there which is some type of voice product Right, which would help surface Uh podcast and you know, there's the whole was it this article we're talking about smart Speakers and oh no, that's in the Edison stuff where we're finding out that A large number of podcasters have them but doesn't mean they listen to podcasts on them. I don't know. What do you guys? What do you guys think? Ryan, did you see some head nodding? But did you read through this article or you have any thoughts about what they're trying to do here? Yeah The biggest thing that I saw that I thought was kind of interesting was like Dave already talked about You can't just go on Google chrome and just type in a podcast and find it and do it that way it has to be through An android device and so me I have all mac products And so for me not to be able to do this on a google chrome Just pulling it up. I think is a huge. I would hope miss I would think that this is going to come to desktop, right? Just just Browsers, right that would be my hope and that's actually exactly what i'm talking about like google You're when I search on google it should say It should show me podcasts that or about that thing i'm searching for which I imagine this is the first step being within the The google ecosystem and then it should Broaden out. That's my hope. I mean come on if we were talking about first class citizens here Well, I guess my question is why did they have to make a second app instead of integrating their google play into it? I guess i'm kind of confused by that as well What do you think jonathan I'm the same way because they even conditioning us to put this stuff there and to say hey, here's the feed Here's the website. So we've already been putting it here and like The itunes store. I've got I've got a podcast. I'm sorry I i'm thinking of uh of the of of the mac again the itunes But I've got friends who have iPhones and I just tell them hey see that purple app on your phone Click that nearest podcast Here it just in the Just trying to figure it out last night. I was like, I can't search for a podcast app when I do I find stitcher I find podcast then i'm sorry to say what they show me in this podcast app Why would I how would I go with this over just downloading stitcher or pocketcast? Yeah, the idea pocketcast is where I'd be I'd even know that that's premium at some level but stitchers free Yeah, you pay for it having to listen to those ads, but anyways They asked them Dave you alluded to the questions at the at the bottom of this article Does my website follow google's official guidelines for podcasts, which is interesting right something you should be If you're not doing it already your website should be Should comply with these Guidelines that they have it's clickable. We'll share all these links will be in the the description of the youtube video But of course podcast roundtable.com for this episode and to be in the show notes Uh, it'll be or not. It'll be they also ask um Our smart speakers a growth opportunity for podcasters. I think that remains to be seen. It's an interesting question it was interesting no On the on the uh, smart speakers I have a google home that i've just been trying out because I have I have an amazon device and a google home I've been trying to get one of my shows to work on google home But it doesn't work, but it always plays another podcast in the podcast app on the android It lists all the podcasts that were played on my google home So I do see the part of the strategy Where they want to learn what you're listening to and let you Uh continue where you're going. I mean, that's the dream of any podcast app is to be able to Go from device to device and pocket cast does that Pretty well. I mean you did desktop to mobile to To me that that would be the best is if I could get marco to come up with some sort of amazon or whatever google app So that if i'm in the car and i'm listening on overcast And then I walk into the door and I tell the woman in the tube To play podcast or whatever because I don't want to have 80 million apps for my 80 million podcasts I still like having one app that I can go to one. It makes it easy. I understand that strategy You know so that you can go to people who don't understand podcasts and just say oh I had the amazon skill or whatever But to me I want to be able to go to whatever device and just pick up where I left off And that's what I'm hoping they kind of alluded that they a lot of this article is what would this look like if we did this Right, if we did there's a lot of like imagine if you would you know my imagining for 10 years Yeah, yeah 14 years is your show easy to find with voice commands? Obviously, I think there's probably more trouble on there and then it is our end But I mean, what does that even mean like what does it mean to make your show easier? Like i'm you're gonna have to change the name of your god I will say that when alexa first came out and I was trying to find The podcast studio or podcast around table. They were difficult I don't think it liked the word podcast because it thinks you're looking for a podcast, right? So like that's not so it's actually in the title. So I'm not going to change the name of the show For mine. I have uh, I'm working on a skill for the alexa cast because if anybody's going to listen It would be the people on an alexa. The problem is is when I tell her and mine is going crazy now Is there why is there not a quick button you can just like hit there is I just always forget about okay, all right But the thing that's weird is when I tell her to play her skill. She gets confused. She's like, that's my name Don't wear it out kind of thing. Um, so that's that's kind of bizarre and the other thing is when I was in nashville Uh, I met a guy that does the develop. I think it's developpreneur And I was like that's gonna be a problem. You guys are making up words for your show Voice commands are gonna go what did you sneeze, you know, so still web 2.0. Isn't it like it's all weird disease and My first show that I that like it's still running but the the first one I have it has a A horrible name for voice speakers. So with lipson I had to actually change my invocation name to be something that That madame would uh, would actually understand madame. I like that. This this says What was that jonathan? I heard that on I think it was uh new media show There's one of the shows that calls that calls it madame. I'm like I like that Right, right at this one question before I move on Ryan, maybe I'm curious what you think How how might android users be different than ios users? We're gonna see this again in the Edison stats, but we see that You know, there's a lot more People on android But a significantly small amount of them listen to podcasts now Does it mean that the user is different or is it maybe this issue that we're talking about right now? What did being sort of difficult to listen to well? I feel like Apple has done a great job doing what we've already talked about that android is trying to do that they have linked All of their products together So I have an ipad and I watch an apple iphone and a laptop a mac and all of them crosstalk So if I have itunes or apple podcasts, I can pick up where one left off And it does a really good job of that and spotify does a good job of that too uh, so just being able to link between Macs and Like other android products I think would be the biggest that I can think of off the top of my head. What about you guys Dave, do you think android users are just different now? You just bought an android. Have you do feel different? I feel frustrated That's a great question, you know rob rob has a very strong opinions about this that yeah I don't buy androids to list to consume content right at the now this is You know This could be years ago. I think things have changed definitely, but you know that typically the ios user Is it does more with their phone? It's what they're saying as opposed to phone calls There are a lot of free android phones that are really basic and are probably bought because they were free or just given Uh, or bought to make phone calls or text messages or something like that So there may be some difference at least like I said, I think that's changing I think I think android devices have caught up I mean half of them look just like iphone's anyways and they operate probably just as good So I think more people are probably purchasing them for content consumption as well plus as as people Is you know, we have younger people To get into our time, but do you think five years ago That android you I do you think that exists that users bought iphone's to do more Versus androids people people are gonna we're gonna get emails about that Well, you know, I'm not sure to be honest with you. I just know androids are cheap I mean that's usually when it's like if you sign up for a two-year plan you get a free phone And it's like oh, what is it? It's you know, and it's a galaxy or whatever it is I don't know if that's still the case But I know for a while that was always the free phone is you got an android So and I think that that probably plays into the You know the stat of whatever rob says for every one iphone. There's six Android phones out there something like that so well, and if that stat is true about the Or not stat, but if that's true about getting free phones that plays into some of what the edison research was talking about which was that the Largest majority over I think it was 51 of the people who listen to podcasts make over 75 thousand dollars a year Right, so if people are making more and are able to afford the apple products That might be also with contributing to more apple users So ryan, that's a good transition. The edison was your was your article. Let's dive into that a little bit I just pulled that up and yes, we we talk about that in the podcast space a lot that You know, I I'm sure Dave you've given talks where you've you've cited the stat that that podcast listeners Have more income right tend to be higher educated like why do we even say that in the first place? I think it has to do a lot of times when we we're giving talks about Making money with podcast and that that podcast listeners tend to have more disposable income where they can buy your Shwag or your product that you're selling in addition to your free podcast, right? So you can run the best buy and blow 99 bucks on a galaxy that's going to gather dust I guess we don't hate you. I don't hate you android people. I love you It's nothing. I am attacking shaggastic for sure. I love all tech um I figure what the question is now. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know Ryan. Let's dig into this Edison a little bit. Um Yeah, what sticks out to you first? So, I mean, uh, we already talked about the 51% that were over 75 000 Uh, but everything went up. It always goes up But it's like a couple of percentage points Probably the biggest things that went up were that women went up from a monthly podcast listening from 21 to 24 percent whereas men stayed the same good It's interesting which Which you look at because there's there's ever listened to a podcast percent. There's monthly and there's weekly, right? So you've got sort of the I tried it. You have the Listen to it enough, which I think would be monthly and then you have your hyper user, which is the weekly podcast So I'm just it's interesting now. You're saying to monthly you're looking at monthly. Is that is that you enjoy? I mean that you think is most important Well, I just thought it was interesting that the women increased and the men stayed the same Which kind of goes along with the fact that from what I can see there It seems to be like there's a lot more women entering the podcast space And so it makes sense that more women are listening to those women podcasters as well As well as other podcasts, right? Yeah, no, that's good. We've been looking for that balance since forever we've been waiting for that balance and that's That seems to be happening It's unfortunate that that men didn't increase as well because what it means is that necessarily the audience we what we need Is overall audience growth, right? That's what we hear about in order for podcasts to sort of keep going As opposed to just I mean it is because more women so that's good But you know, I always want more more more when you need more people But I don't know if we need more content, but we need more people I would say probably the reason why people aren't I'm creating more I was just at a a meet-up and some of the people there were tire kickers I think people right now are afraid to start so there's a lot of people who want to start they just They're always always waiting to start Yeah, there's a lot of people. I mean who we Dave we see that all the time, right? I I always love the people that can't explain why they don't start They're like, I have had people like I've got the equipment. I'm ready to go and I'm like cool Where's that first episode? Yeah, I'm like, okay. Well, what's let's let's talk about what's the hold up It's very hard to finish anything especially any any creative venture. It's hard to To like put that last piece and ship it actually press publish That's hard like you can get the equipment you can come up with the idea you can kick it around with friends You can create the website like that's even like that's not it's sort of there doesn't have to be finished Right, but actually Like putting your voice out and then like hitting public like that's not even from like even being scared It's just it's just difficult to do until you figure out the workflow and then obviously getting over any fear You might have of putting it out there. Look, no one's listening. So put it out there I mean that for everyone in the beginning unless you're unless you already have a big audience Which at that point you're not scared because you're already talking to a big audience. So get out there, right? Yeah, that's uh, and I think that's part of it is As they take more steps to get closer to launching they realize they're closer to launching and that's what the The breaks start to come on like wait, if I do another step I'm only two steps away from publishing and that's when they're like, uh, I'm gonna Work on my theme music now for four months finding the perfect one This one drives one and if you're like me a recovering perfectionist It can be hard to put out that final product But the other stat that always and I haven't looked at the numbers yet I just know that came out. What was it yesterday or the day before? I'm always kind of bummed out That like 74 percent or 60 percent or whatever people have tried a podcast and then it's like It's like 65 of what everybody knows that stat whatever it is 64 percent have tried a podcast. How many are listening weekly? Oh, you're saying of so 64 know what the term podcasting is and 44 up from 40 have ever listened to one Yes, okay. So 44 have actually listened. How many are listening on a weekly basis or even monthly The monthly went up from 24 to 26 and I don't know what the yes Yeah, so so that's what's a little more that's what's so much depressing is that 44 hit play 26 come back for another one. Yeah, but if if half the people Half the people in your email list open an email would that be that would be pretty good, right? Yeah, that's true If we could get 50 open right, it'd be like I mean you're batting 500. I mean, that's probably not that bad But you know the hard part is that it's probably it all it hinges on what's that first podcast They listen to and how did they get to it like did a friend tell them who has like interest or did they just be like I've heard of the same called podcast Right, I mean if they went to the trouble to find podcast. I don't yeah. I don't know I mean, there's probably it'd be interesting to find out What how how it jived like people's first what they listen to first and how that that goes with What they would actually want to that would be fun to do if you could find a place where you could just go Hey Here's this go find a podcast and just see what they do and see what their experience would be that would be awesome I don't even think that but I don't think that's it I don't think that's how people first experience a podcast in most cases Is it because if you're allowed to search for yourself then you probably find something you like by searching things You'd rather listen to but it's people be like, oh you got to listen It's like someone tells me you got to watch this netflix show Because they love it or they're crazy about it and i'm like, yeah, it's not my thing man I'm not gonna watch netflix like I write off all netflix and but because I don't want to do that show like I don't know I had one listener who was listening on the eye heart radio app and they were listening to radio They're like, oh, okay. Well, there's this music app. Oh, okay. So they go to the music side They're like, okay. Well, I want a little bit more. I want something that's in my niche So then they they go to the podcast section of the app find my podcast amongst all they're like And they're listening so I mean it was where they were already consuming media and I think that is where we might see Another growth if it's where they're already at I think we'll see go on that. I'm sorry. Go ahead, right? Oh, I was just gonna say that was the interesting part at the end of it The Edison had the share of ear which was a separate study. They did that had 5000 people that they sampled instead of 2000 And it was talking about where they listened from and it said that of the total americans They sampled four percent of their time spent listening to audio was podcasts But of the people who listen to podcasts it was a third of their time So I thought that was an interesting stat that kind of goes along with what jonathan was talking about that Once you find a podcast people become avid listeners And become and they listened to four hours a total Yeah, once you discover something that you actually like then you go and you find others You're like, oh my gosh, there's people talking about this crazy thing that I like that No, no one else talks to me about and then you become a much more than you're in right if you can get that If you can get hooked now, I think when you're talking about Spotify and discovering all that stuff I think that's going to increase that number of people who have tried a podcast But don't become subscribers because Look, I thumbs down half the stuff that comes across Pandora. I mean if they're gonna just start bringing that now Here's if they do a good job I mean, I don't know how you do a good job. You can't go from music You know, if your first podcast is based on Heck, what am I talking about? They know everything about us. They're gonna show us the best stuff Forget it. I give up. Well, it's gonna be awesome And that's what google is trying to do with their audience because today's report was about google says I'm gonna give you the audio that you want now. So you want music now Okay, now you want this podcast now you want this podcast So, I mean the google is trying to give you the content that you want When you want yeah letting letting sky that control our lives, right exactly I but I mean that's that's why I have to stuff the netflix Half is about probably about right but a lot of the stuff the netflix recommends I check out most of the time I will check it out and the reason for that is They know what I like and so youtube has got this figured out. So I have trust and it's all gonna work Yeah, yeah Well debate over this thing drives this stat and it keeps shows up every time It's driven me insane for years and I've mentioned it and and when they first came out with this stat It didn't make sense and then I asked I think it was tom And he admitted he told me what it what it it what I thought it was it is That they still haven't cleared up. So he says a related stat that was previously mentioned but bears repeating Sorry, I'm reading from an article among weekly podcast consumers the average number of podcasts consumed per week is now seven up from five That's not the why can't they just put in the average number of podcast Episodes it's not the number of podcasts people think. Oh my god Weekly podcast listeners listen to seven different shows No, they could listen to six episodes of one show and one episode another one and that's how you get your seven It's podcast episodes change this to webster. I know you're you've been on the show. I know you're listening. No, you're not but Seriously update this he even says that he's like, yes, that's it. That's what that means Anyways, oh, that's not stay there too long right. What else what else? uh from this uh going along with the The the income thing it kind of makes sense that it said that 27 percent and 34 percent so a combined 61 percent of people had at least a four-year college degree Or some degree of grad school advanced degree and then what was surprising to me was that the The composition of podcast consumers as a whole the one that was the most was aged 35 to 54 As opposed to the 18 to 34, which I thought it would have been the most But it was the second runner up at 34 percent instead of 36 Yeah, and it's we've seen that mid-range for a long time. I mean you got to figure it's really the same people Young people aren't listening to you don't have radios on with talk radio, right? It's not you listen to music Like it's it's still the same You know before podcasting who listened to AM radio like anyone's listening to talk radio. That's the demographic for podcasting as well Although I think we have pushed through that we do have a young audience and a much older audience I mean, we we do spread across Generations better. I think so that that is definitely good. And we've seen the younger generation grow Quite a bit. I think but what about the zero sum game? I found this interesting Do you remember what they said here? No, I don't remember what you're talking about So this oh, you know, maybe I also am getting some of this from hot pod Is he broke it down as well? Perhaps the most interesting idea raised in the webinar Which is this they do a webinar to present these stats tom watcher does and that's always interesting to watch Tom's also funny. So the notion that podcasting may well be locked into a zero sum competition with other audio Sources for new listeners It's premised on the fact that based on Edison's share of ear research They talked about people spend on average four hours every day listening to audio in general That's any audio Music included a number that has stayed flat for several years So if we assume that the overall number of hours consumers will spend listening to audio will continue to stay the same Seems to be so far Then podcasting in its pursuit to grow will have to convince these consumers to give up some of their time spent previously listening to terrestrial or internet radio Music or something else We are at some point in a competition with the number of hours in a day There's a funny quote in here. So like uh, it was a diehard guy Oh, Netflix CEO Reed Hastings used to say that video streaming services true competition is sleep So if if we don't convince people if we don't convince people to to spend more hours In the day listening to audio then at some point we have to have the the flip has to come from I'm going to take more time away listening from to music and switch it to podcast now I don't know Ryan. I mean, I think They're not showing that. Maybe that's gone up a little bit I think it did show that that has actually gone up a little bit And you know, maybe that's part of that podcaster of addicting Thing I think more people are once they find it again I think it's all about finding that the podcast that speaks to you and then you do trade you're like, oh I want to hear more about this thing this topic, right? So I think it's possible Yeah, definitely Well, there any other there were some smart speaker stuff in here Um, anything else stick out No, not really. Uh, it said that for the smart speaker stuff. It said that people who use Smart speakers in general 17 percent of them regularly use it for podcasts But of the podcast listeners 24 percent of them use it regularly. So it's not very High on the amount used which kind of goes along with what was used in the The share ear one. It was talking about the like overhead Sorry, uh, overhead Don't die on the show. We haven't had a hundred nine rounds and we haven't had no one No, no, don't beat the bullet. No choking a lot of podcasting Yeah, they were saying that over half the people were using Uh smartphones, which kind of goes along with what we'd think. I mean, look, this is my theory It I mean, it's not it's probably not it's not original like people Don't it's the podcasting. It's not like a group event. Like it. This isn't the this isn't the hate Dave can you give us some like old timey radio impression? Doesn't look in for like gather the family around gather around the family and it's gonna be a shindig tonight over by the uh You know everybody gather around the amazon echo will be listening to the new fangled podcast That's right. That's what I'm talking about. It's I have earbuds and it's like you stick it in and you I don't even want to consume my wife and I listened to one of the podcasts was in the same one. She's like We'll get in the car. She's like I'm spot on. I'm like, no, I don't want to hear your podcast I could be in a different place than you are like spoiler alert Like our families never agreed on the same stuff like we used to try to do a family movie night Halfway through my dad would put on his headphones to watch something on his computer and like nowadays typically I'm I'm listening to something watching a podcast or or doing something My mom has the tv and my dad's on his computer on no, I mean it's I don't think media itself is very group oriented And and a lot of families. Well, I know Todd Cochran has said when he gets in the car Everybody pops on their headphones And you know his kids if everybody has their own phone or whatever and okay, I just don't need your podcast pollution now I'm one of my best memories is I do remember I used to like Right around in the car with my dad and my dad would have talk radio on and that was something that we shared. I mean I But now it is you but you were a captive prisoner at that like You didn't have a you're too young to have a device and you were gonna listen to what was on the radio I've been that prisoner so like And yet you found stuff you obviously it's a good memory But when you have choice You know when that when that kid becomes a teenager like yeah, all right. I had enough of that dad Absolutely, and nowadays like in my sister's car My niece and nephew are on their own devices. Yeah, that's a problem kids have devices too young now It's like they don't ever get a chance to to hear our amazing Led Zeppelin covers. Yeah Cool Dave I'd have you play us out on some Led Zeppelin cover then that this video would get like taken off of youtube So we won't do that Anyways, we'll link to that some interesting stuff, you know, I think Ryan as you said the numbers continue to go up That's good. That's what we've always seen. They've been doing this for like, I don't know seven years or something a long time Which is cool. That's cool. They do this. It is kind of um I mean, it's a good thing But it is when you see it go from 13 percent to 15 percent on the weekly to 17 percent It's like slow man. We're a slow. We're a slow growth medium, you know, and it's still if you I'm let's see 48 million divided by 17 Yeah, uh is um 48 million 17 percent so it means 1 percent is 2.82 Two basically we'll round it up. It sounds better three million people So every time we go up two percent we're adding six Million people. I've got a theory. I've got a you know about trading time for things. Yeah There's a service out there. Well name names that advertises on podcasts and they advertise you can listen to um scrolls in audio form and I have a theory sometimes that's because then people Go to those scrolls in audio form and then they don't go and then they don't do podcasts Like I know somebody who doesn't listen to podcasts anymore because they now listen What's a scroll about a book? Yeah a book. I was trying to be I was trying to be yeah, no We know you're talking about they're not advertising on this show. So we don't yeah But they're on so many shows and I guy there's that once where I just listened to The show just came out and they have two ads in the 20 minute show about the whole different thing But they are advertising this other service. I'm like so you're you're on one on one medium Yeah, I was making another platform. It's like when I go to the movie theater and netflix now has Yeah, yeah, I'm like I know podcasts. I know podcasts that advertise on podcasts. Yeah, and sometimes they're you know Hopefully if you take that ad it's not a direct we talk about competition all the time But again at some point you are in competition with the amount of hours that someone is awake and able to consume audio Oh, absolutely. It's like coke advertising on the pepsi podcast. I don't think that's gonna happen Come on guys. Just get along. You'll grow faster. All right. Let's move on. Let's see Ryan I'm sorry, Ryan. We just Jonathan About john pick one pick one of your two here. Okay. I'd like to jump to you I think the the one I would pick would be the the medium story Oh, man. I was hoping for silent quakers, but good. I'm just well silent quakers is the best audio editing job ever You just don't have to ever edit but it is good audio The the medium article was interesting. It's by um, it's by medium on the medium model and The biggest quote that I pulled out of here and I actually give I think it was pod to pod that that pulled No, no pod news pod news pulled out this quote but um Everybody says we are we see audio as a highly Complementary format for sharing the type of stories medium is great at I think that is one thing podcasting Is great at I mean, it's it's creating that while content Like you said on your show, Dave I mean it's creating content that shares a story Shares an intimacy and like I know I know blogs that are turning to podcasts because You're in someone's ear. You're creating an intimate relationship and it's interesting that medium Is seeing that medium tried robotic audio and I think people listen to robotic audio Turn it off unless it's giving them a command or turning on their lights So is that the key here is that they tried robotic audio and then then they switched to doing some actual narration Of of non westworld like people that they I just started watching it. Oh, I loved it Is that it that they're doing they're because I says here they They featured I'm looking at that quote too says we started adding audio narrations to some of our best stories last year It's a minor feature, but it's increasing in popularity yeah, and I was trying to find I don't know if they're doing The professional but I've seen some some some blogs turn into Turn it turn into audio and like I've I've seen things like I've seen people narrating books I hope that they're not just reading like I hope that it's actual. I'm sure they are at this point, but You know for me, it's all about giving As an even as an avid podcast consumer. Sometimes I just want to read something. I'm looking for specific it's easier to scroll text and get what I'm looking for again if if if google's going to increase their servicing of Podcasters meaning yeah, there's so sometimes, you know on daniel's show a lot of times I'm like I may have listened to it, but then I might remember Oh, you know what? I want to dig out one of those things He said that stutter or had that how-to and I'll just go to his website And he does such good show notes that I'm able to pull out what I want and people freak out And they think well if I have it all there, you know, and I'm talking about transcripts because those we've talked about that It's not the best thing to have we're talking about like actual like consumable by a human Scannable that you can pull out. Yeah, and you so sometimes I want to just grab it again bloggers Some people want to then settle in and listen to it, right? Yeah, or like I'm some of these long articles that are on medium. I don't or on sites I don't have the time to sit down and read it But if I can pull it up on a podcast and select the articles I want and then like send it to my And then like listen to somebody with their passion behind the words with What they feel behind the words and it's not a robotic voice I could feel a better connection with the audience. I can with the podcaster I can feel a better connection with them really hear what's behind them and sometimes what I've seen greatest when somebody is Saying something on it that they wrote they add more to it or to go into it more more in depth Which is what you kind of need to that that's that if you're going to make that transition I think you need to add to it You can't just read the article unless you're like really good at reading and you wrote it like you talk But isn't medium the isn't medium the one that does like three minute read and stuff like that like at least I really enjoy So this I run this one that you that you mentioned is probably better as a listen because it's an eight minute read So it's interest that's It's a very interesting thing to give you Because a lot of people it's going to turn it's going to stop a lot of people But then if it's short enough it's going to make a lot of people actually read it too But if you have a lot of people three minute read Oh, yeah, nice. So this was two and a half articles apparently in one But no, I I know for me When I have an audiobook I'm always bummed when I saw when the author was young and hungry They read their own audio book But that one made the charts in their new york times bestseller Second book comes out and it's somebody who's not them reading it and it's just not the same because you can now Stephen king will read your book like it It's not because I'm not hungry. It's because my idol said I'll narrate that that was amazing I get what you're saying. I'd rather hear from the author too. Yeah, unless they're terrible Yeah, that's always That's always good Although they did I I listened to a sammy haigar book and they found a guy that sounds just like sammy haigar. That was kind of Like that's good. Yeah sam haigar impersonator Better than drunk sammy haigar trying to get through exactly I don't know if sammy. I don't know if you you have it. He hasn't sammy. He's got the tequila. So he must drink, right? Exactly. Um What else we got as we've covered I threw up this I threw it literally threw up like in This article about skype came out of my mouth, which you know what? It kind of makes me want to vomit to be honest with you because I don't I I don't understand what's going on here skype skype says The tweet I think I saw or however I got However, I got alerted to this was it basically you don't need a third party app anymore To record skype. They're going to build it in natively. Yay podcasters because a lot of people this is what we do Use skype for interviews for the most part still Um And I'll use something like call recorder people use audio hijack. There's a lot of different things It's third party I don't see how they're changing this I know if you guys do you guys do you as anyone else? Know I'm it has to be indi Inabled software like wirecast exploit or v mix which tells me I still need third party software to do this I thought I was going to open up skype and it was going to have a record button Well, skype for business has a record option So it's not something completely new it just most people don't have you ever used it I used it once It was not great at the time I used it once because I had to learn I had to learn it to turn around and teach people how to use it And it was okay. I remember the the quality was like Okay, but it was for business people who wanted to hear it not podcasters Who are going to have people pick apart their audio and then this they do build this for the podcaster because you they're going to give you discrete tracks Individual tracks that you can edit and post production and they say, oh, you know, if you're doing a one-off conversation Probably not worth it But for podcasters content creators because it's going to work with video as well But I don't get it because If anything they have not made this clear any article I've read is not made clear What the heck is actually going to happen? Maybe I didn't dig deep enough, but I don't know what's going on. I did anyone understand how this is going to work I guess that's what I'm looking for. Ryan Shakespeare said no I was listening to both Stargate pioneer and and uh Rob Walsh talk about this Skype and what I'm hearing It is going to be discrete video tracks, right, but the audio for now will be mixed in one track and Then they even said once it gets to be multiple tracks Are we going to get time drift like we're getting with some of those services that try online I Where is and I think squadcast I get some yeah And they uh, they I you just said drift and they they claim that there's no drift anymore So that they got that fixed, but that's one to check out. Uh, there are a lot of these but Okay, but do I still need to use wire? Wirecast is super expensive Here's a free version I'm sorry. I mean I I use wirecast at all and it crashes sometimes. I mean it's yeah I so I don't get it like it What I'm getting is not I don't understand that I'm not going to be able to just open Skype and This is not going to be easy for the average podcasters what I'm saying. It doesn't seem like it That's the pitch. I felt like I was getting I'm not buying it But it may break some of those third-party recorders. So they said be very careful Yeah, we've seen that over the years too pambla Why is there still not a good option? Why is there still not a record recorder equivalent for windows? seriously Do you know you guys use windows based PCs Yeah What do you record skype? I I have for years used a No, I use a thing Why I've always used some sort of hardware That's always been the thing is my software is hardware I'm trying to find it. It's creatively named quote that his software is hardware. Yeah But I found mp3 skype recorder, right, but that's it records mp3 only Yeah, that's the part that stinks and that's where I use that as my backup And then I use of my I've always used a zoom or a roll under some sort of recorder to and that's the key backup is key Yeah, so I always have that and then I just recently just started playing with squad cast And it's fine. It's cool. But I the thing I Dislike about that is it's great to have the separate tracks if somebody's dog barks or whatever But if they didn't bark and everybody sounds great You still have to now do that extra step of taking the separate tax and smushing them together So that's where you go out and spend another 80 bucks onophonic Multitrack to make one file that Sounds great and is smushed the official smushing tool of Dave Jackson. You can You can smush in audacity. I mean if you just want tracks together and smush. Yeah technical term Dave and I have a a company we don't talk about much. It's this um super podcast production company that we do and smush is actually a term we use Daily we smush things that's actually our tagline Bring us your podcast. We'll smush it. We'll smush it. We're not doing so well, Dave. Our business is bad. I don't know why All right, it's not true. Even though Dave, can you go by smush? smush.com. I don't know if that's available or not well Be beware Sounds like a parody site of smosh. There you go. Or like smogcast Yeah, if it exists by it. Ah Emily in the chat room says she has a pc. She uses A multo Yeah, I've heard that one too. Which sounds like some sort of cool Every website for these things look like they were still they were made in like 95. I don't think they've ever been updated I just don't understand why we can't get better. Why can't hey call recorder who makes call recorder? It's uh ecam make a windows version. Come on you guys. I feel bad for all of you one of those people Mac has an amazing with audio hijack. I mean, I I can record any application Into it. I can do different tracks the only issue I come into is if I got multiple people in skype or discord or somewhere I can't pull apart their audio, but I can record the Guest track and stuff like that and it has not failed me Yeah, auto hijack is the one I recommend to people who are geek here who want to dig in And then call recorder is the one I give to someone who's like I started a podcast, but I don't do techie stuff That's what they say so Just depends on what you need. You're not kidding Go ahead I was just I guess I'm not techie enough because audio hijack. I couldn't get to work and it crashed during an interview and so I have to do ringer There you go. I've heard good things about ringer. Yeah Skype's probably just not going to this doesn't sound like big news to me On that it's not if people need easy there's better options. I mean at least now So I guess we'll just wait again like google. We won't hold our breath But hey skype. Just keep doing your thing. We'll use it the way we Well, that's going to be the big thing is are they going to change anything with the software so that People are using is going to break everything. Yeah, it's going to sound terrible. I can't wait. So All right, what else what time I haven't even looked at time like this is the stuff I love doing I am laughing because I went to amalto.com and you're right. That's I've seen worse website But it's yeah, well here glenn the geek our friend. He uses I think he uses total recorder He's used it. I mean if there's someone I'm going to just take the word for it It's going to be glenn because I don't know how many cranks out every day And that's what they're based on using that software and its website is like it's the worst But hey this he says it's reliable and it's been So if you're on windows, there are options that just They just don't make stuff that looks like it's going to work But there is stuff that does Let's see. Do we have we each got a story Dave, I don't Emily says the amalto website. The only thing it's missing Yes visitor counter at the bottom hit counter like a little like construct under construction little like this Like a little gif thing. Yeah, that would be amazing Dude, I've you wanted big hits man. I want that counter to be huge Is the precursor to the youtube subscribe? I always love when you get the code and you could put in like Let's just start at 5000 hits and then you put the code on and oh, there's 5001 and like well that kind of Kills all kind of social proof. Dave. It's just like the it's the it's the The also the precursor ratings and reviews you can give yourself a thousand reviews if you want to start off Right. I heard that I need to be a new and noteworthy. I'm sorry, Dave. I don't Yeah I had somebody today that was really hung up on new and noteworthy and I'm like, oh I can lead a horse to water I think We've each done an article so I so in this newer format if you're still if you're still listening or watching You're likely to be the person who would submit podcast roundtable.com slash guest to appear On roundtable. I have everyone picked two And we usually get to like one we just get to about four stories in an hour, which I actually enjoy I think that's great, but we have enough if we if we need more time Um, we can go one more if there's anything on here anyone really wants to talk about I was curious to talk about the Quaker one just because I thought it was interesting. Cool. Well, right well But so I am curious what ryan thought was interesting about jonathan's article that he picked so let's start there ryan Yeah, no jonathan's article. I thought was interesting as well Let me copy and paste it into the chat here Uh, I thought it was interesting that it was talking about Bringing podcasters to a what sounded to me like a non podcasting convention And so What do you mean by that? What's like like not like a convention that's not You're specifically towards podcasters like podcast movement or something like that, right? And so what it appeared to me is it was an event for Uh, blizzard people who are invested in the blizzard community And so they if they reached a certain Kickstarter goal and they were going to Have I was kind of confused. It sounded like they have a podcasting area But if they reached their goal, they were going to have it like fully stocked and like ready for multiple days of panels Yeah, because what what it is is there's a ton of Podcasters like I was talking with dave about this. It's a it's a bubble It's a podcast bubble But people are inspired to create podcasts and what's amazing is it's you can go one place And if you're in this this this is a bubble you get to meet all of your All of the creators you listen to and the creators get to meet their fans It encourages the creators and in many cases it encourages fans to continue listening to the creators And some start their own podcast. So it's an amazing way to realize that that person is just like Just like you and it builds relationships and builds that intimacy. Is this a different story? Oh, wait, ryan yours was the quicker. Oh, yeah I I got it confused. So we're not talking about the quaker. So anyone's confused because I I keyed it I I teed it up for the quaker podcast and we're talking about something different He's conned before the storm prepares for its six year. That's what we're talking about now. So Um, and then there's the four quaker podcast silence is golden. So let me play just a little piece of that podcast right now This is spence is killing. Oh, that's it. I know I was playing don't interrupt the podcast, dave I mean you were listening to it So apparently there's a podcast where they don't and so I think there are some ambient sounds. I don't know What was this about ryan? uh, it was a podcast that was the young quakers podcast and they had Uh 30 minutes of silence because it was the quakers worship and they have like you said ambient sounds like a clock ticking and And stuff like that and it was supposed to be like this Meditation type of soundtrack But I was just curious as a general Discussion topic what you guys thought was too much silence in an episode of podcasting. Yeah I mean I find this interesting because again, I think in the edison Or one of those someone was talking about Again growing Our listenership and one of those things we need to find new podcast listeners, right? And I think that this sounds crazy You're just like what no podcast that I press play and nothing happens People probably thought it was crazy to do a podcast where someone whispers you to sleep too But that is actually wildly successful. So those those things They're just new approaches and the the whole point is what I wanted to see out of podcasting I've been talking about for years is people doing stuff that you just that people would say that just doesn't seem like it Would work and then it does like experimenting because no one says you can't so for me I think it's really cool because Again, we're just Experimenting finding new people and new new ways of presenting content. They stole my idea I wanted to do the show a while back. You have the domain, right? What's yeah I wanted to do the power nap podcast Where you would start on and like give like a quick two minute tip on like how to run a business And then say now find yourself a quiet tree or whatever to park under And then in like 20 minutes Have some alarm go off and go now go out there and you know win one for the gipper and that would be the show So that's kind of what this sounds like 30 minutes of silence and then You know, whatever off they go Yeah, I mean, it's definitely it's funny because they this was on npr At least the one i'm looking at they covered it he said so forget dead air here friends is your moment of zen I mean quaker. So yeah, like a meditation style podcast the only podcast you can play in a movie theater That's right. That's it excellent anyone else I mean Anyone else find this interesting for any other reason then it's just quirky. Well, and There's a thing called asmr. I've been hearing about and I could see this being a form of that What that's me talking to you. Dave doesn't know what asmr is Dave I can hear you right There's a whole shot of people Oh, yeah I just reviewed I just reviewed one Are you doing you reviewed asmr people I did when it was called listening anymore It was called um, it was on a podcast rodeo show was something like whisper sleeps and that guy was talking about uh, the history of marco polo And I'm like, I don't I the fact that he's whispering doesn't make me sleepy. It just makes it's not makes you sleepy It's just Podcasts around table Yeah, I just have to do sound Things to make well That's weird I mean again do it do ackerman has made it right Amazing business and again. I listen to it every night because it helps me go to sleep. So I mean Is he a s a m? What is it asmr? I don't what's it stand for? I don't know. Okay, sometimes it stands for whispering. It's a weird ackerman It's web 2.0 asmr means whispering Uh, but yeah, but drew is Drew's the original that's the thing I love about that Yeah, and that's the key do something successful and then everyone else wants to do it If you haven't listened to it podcast junkies, uh, last episode is interviewing drew It's a really good interview and I love that he Bought his inner critic and that's one thing that I've really been hearing from people starting podcasts or continuing They have a critic in their head that tells them Oh, what you're doing is awful. What you're doing can't work I just saw a reddit thread for people were tearing apart a podcast this person said asking for feedback Oh, your process is just awful. I'm like No, I mean there's there's constructed criticism, but Everybody has An inner critic that they're fighting against like I like air k. John k. Johnson. I'm I mean Just going through different things about like the imposter syndrome. I think that's one thing that Yeah, it's amazing. It's those who battle it and make it successful Yeah, for sure. You got to just put it out there because again. Yeah, don't listen anyone else because The masses are not actually the people you're looking for right here You will connect with a certain subgroup of people who Actually enjoy that same thing that you do. So yeah, he's the test waters He said his audience is self-selecting on on the sleep committee podcast like some will hate it So they won't ever listen some will love it and they listen that Yeah, he was talking today about how he's had People that have reached out to him because like they're they're going through something horrible And whether it's they're just stressed out and they can't they they hit the pillow and they're just everything hits them And he said that was really Moving because he's like, you know, he's just doing his little show and these people are like I'm trying to get over the fact that my you know, whatever horrible situation and It's working. So autonomous sensory meridian response from timothy in the chat. That's what you get That was on the tip of my tongue. I almost yeah, that's exactly why they say I guess today we learn whispering people that's right Yeah, I mean this has opened up a whole new market for for podcast microphones because they I think they buy like crazy stereo microphones Like these crazy like they're like special microphones for this stuff. So I don't know check it out google it You won't find a podcast but you probably get a youtube video about it. So prepared to be Sometimes disturbed. I don't know people squish things they smush things. That's it. Oh man our business about to take off We just found our niche. What a great call Dave and I we yeah, that's it. That's what we do here That's it Dave and I have to go work on our business. We're gonna be rich. So we'll get out of here Uh Dave stay on the hang. I don't want to talk to you As we go out Let us know where we can find your podcast Dave Again, thanks for joining us Ray. Thanks for having me as always. Uh, you can find me Dave Jackson school of podcasting.com Dot com Jonathan thanks for joining us for your first Podcasters round table. Oh, thank you. You know it was an honor. I just I've been soaking up every bit of podcasting information. I can so it's like It's a lot out there. Yeah, I tell people my biggest podcast lesson to a podcast about podcasting Yeah, I mean, that's me. I mean I was primarily my whole Podcatcher was just podcast about podcasting when I first started But it wasn't that many but you know, Dave was there. So yeah, I had like 300 episodes I think to catch up on by the time I found Dave so that's a lot of Dave That's a lot of Dave But it's worth every sound bite. Yes. Enjoy it thoroughly. So thanks again. Where what's you, uh I can talk what URL would you like us to go do? Oh weekly awesome.com You can find my inspirational podcast my wow podcast and then Any other thing that I add there? Very cool. All right, and Ryan thanks for joining us for your first round table Of course, thanks. It's an honor to be one tenth of the way to a shirt There you go. Oh, so you see Listen proof we found it. What what you where can we find your show? Disney and review com for all of your Disney history podcasting needs Very cool. All right. Well, I mean, that's the key when I say hey Thanks for joining us for your first. I mean there should be more so If anyone else these guys they're in they passed their interview So good content tonight if you want to join podcasters round table.com slash guest Of course, uh Subscribe so that you can be for uh subscribing youtube and the podcast, whichever I guess consume the way you want our show notes I don't let you read too well, but the links for this stuff that we talked about will definitely be in there And uh, we'll see you for one 10 All right wave. Goodbye. See you I got a mouse. I got two mice and where's this top button? There it is