 Hi. Welcome back. I'm Lisa Savage. I'm here with Counselors Victoria Pelletier, Roberto Rodriguez, for another episode of Pathways to Progress, where we talk about local government issues here in Portland, Maine. I'm excited that many of the people I mentioned our show tonight said, isn't it usually on Fridays, which tells me they're watching it, right? Watching it live. Hi, Juno. But I'm very excited to say that we now have a regular slot. After this, starting the month of June, we will be on the second Friday of every month at 7 p.m. live here from the Portland Media Center. So that's an exciting development. Hey, welcome. How are you doing, Victoria? Let's check in. How are you? I'm good. I'm a little off with the days, like I mentioned, because in my head, I was like, it's Friday. If it's not, it's Wednesday. So that was a little rough for me. But no, I'm good. I think it's been a couple months, maybe since we've been back, and a lot has happened at City Hall. We've had a lot of really big things happen in the past two months. So yeah, I'm happy to be here. And we've made it to May and almost June. So yeah, great. Yeah, we missed a couple months of the show, but I'm really happy that we have a set time now for going forward. And I think it's also, I was going to say that we're at the halfway point of our term. And I also feel like we're talking about this that we're kind of hitting stride. There's more of a rhythm now and a pattern. So it kind of makes sense to have our show also on a set schedule. Cool. So there's some good news to share in city government that we were discussing right before the show started. Do you want to tell us, you know, we now have an actual city manager in Portland, not an interim city manager, right? Yeah, we passed that on Monday, two days ago. So now, Daniel West is the official city manager. No longer interim. She was interim for like 18 months, I think. It was a pretty significant time. And as of Monday, she is now officially the new city manager of Portland. She was sworn in. And there were a lot of former counselors that came in. There were a lot of staff members that came in. It was actually really packed in City Hall and a lot of people spoke and shared. And now it is official after the hiring process, which I also think lasted like a year and a half. It was a really extensive process. And it is now official as of Monday. That's great. And I know one of the things that you appreciated about her performance as an interim city manager was budgeting for and creating the structure for a DEI manager or director, I don't know what the right title is, who's now in place too, right? We have that person on the ground working. Yeah, that's been that's really exciting to Umaru, who has now been with the city. I don't maybe a month, two months, he just started. But I'm really excited because it's the city's first ever DEI director. First time we've ever had a DEI department at the city of Portland. So that's really exciting. And he's been coming to meetings, which I think has been really important because we've had a lot of significant meetings since February on that are right in his wheelhouse of talking about diversity, equity, inclusion, how people feel safe in Portland, whether they do or don't. So I'm really excited to be able to support his work. Hopefully by this time next year we'll actually have a DEI committee that can support his efforts as well that will meet monthly. The same way all of our other committees do. But yeah, that's been a really exciting point of the spring is finally having him on board and being able to move in the direction of the goals that the racial equity steering committee from 2020 actually pushed for. So yeah, it's great. And more good news is the school budget went to the voters with a very smooth process. Yeah, we same thing on Monday night. We the council approved the school budget and you know, put it officially put it on the ballot for the June referendum. Yeah, it was smooth right in comparison to previous years. I think you know, certainly during the pandemic, there was a lot of kind of action around the the school budget. It kind of in acknowledgement of the hardships that our students and our teachers and the entire kind of system of education was facing. So the budgets were were obviously big ask attached to them. So I think the the thought was like looking back at those processes. It had been a bit more contentious, perhaps. And so this one, I guess in comparison felt smooth. At least that's the way that a lot of folks talked about it. Maybe the old school board chair was just really hard to get an agreement with. I think you know, I've been part of eight, seven or eight school budgets processes. They're all unique. You know, I'm sure that if you ask the school department or the school board, they felt this was a really stressful budget. I mean, when they when they first started with the when they looked at the state subsidy, I believe they were looking at like a 15% tax increase, which they knew was, you know, a non starter. And to be able to identify the amount of cost savings or reductions to get it down to something that was within the range that we gave us guidance. That was probably really stressful for them. So to say that it was smooth from our part, probably doesn't necessarily reflect on what the work that they did. I do think, however, that there there's, you know, like I've said before, right, the school department, the school department. If Emily Factor were here, she is a school board. Board of Education. So the school board and the school, the board of education, they, you know, they they are they're in transition, right? They're also hiring a superintendent. They have now a brand new chair. And so they, you know, they're experiencing this on the first try as well. So I think next year, when there's a new superintendent, then you get more of the long term vision of a budget, perhaps we'll have a different experience through that process, but we'll see. Well, we hope everyone will get out and vote on June 13th, I think it is for the school budget, because we need to educate our youngsters. Well, we have to talk about, there's been some really challenging things happening, some really sad things, really tragic. Obviously the Bayside sweep happened yesterday, I think. Yeah, yesterday, Tuesday. And I know that I saw your insta post of the part where you were speaking about how can I vote for this? Where will these people go? And, you know, this is a systemic problem, a regional problem. It's a humanitarian crisis in every city in this country. But you are Portland City Councilor. So you want to talk a little bit about what you think, why that had to happen or did it have to happen? Yeah, I think that was, that was and still is a really hard day. It was a hard couple of conversations, because we talked about it the week before, we had an emergency meeting about it. And then last last Tuesday was the official HHS meeting about it. And it wasn't, it's not something that the council can vote on. So we don't have the authority to vote on that. It's the city manager's decision at the end of the day. But there was like a guidance conversation about, you know, how do you feel about this? And my stance has remained the same where I wasn't in support of the sweeping of the encampment, specifically because we had no other plan. I mean, I think in the previous meeting, we had talked a little bit about the task force that was being created, where we would put the best minds together to really talk about how we're going to place everyone in the encampment. And my take was that should have started with Bayside Trail, because that was the most significant encampment that we had. And so I think that was, you know, conversations around putting public restrooms and putting trash cans and really trying to make sure that the task force is speaking with the individuals in the encampment and seeing what options are available to move them into housing. And then between Tuesday, the previous Tuesday and last Tuesday, the encampment grew. I think we got a lot more phone calls into emails from local businesses and people in the surrounding area. And so unfortunately, it was moved forward to sweep that encampment and then start the task force afterwards. And I mean, I still think it was just a really terrible idea because these individuals had absolutely nowhere to go. And we had no plan. We were just essentially sweeping something with no plan. And again, I think it was also putting a band-aid on a really huge systemic problem. And I go back to this all the time, but our goal at the beginning of the year was racial equity. And I think of racial equity as an umbrella that covers a lot of different things. And being unhoused is certainly in that umbrella as well in terms of barriers that exist that are keeping a certain demographic of people from achieving housing. So if we're going to really be true to our goals, sweeping an encampment to me was not a, you know, a plausible next step because we would have hundreds of people wandering around the city now with no option and would most likely make camp elsewhere. And so I just didn't really think that we're getting to the root of the problem when we just sweep it encampment. And I was really upset at that meeting because, you know, we, this is the hard part, I guess, about being on the council. Like we took it from our homes, we took it from our laptops. There was talk about how we got so much feedback from businesses and they were really upset. And I was like, you know, the people who are unhoused are probably really upset as well. I don't think that they want to be in that scenario, but they are. And yeah, I was just, I was an M really disappointed in that decision. And I don't think by doing that we resolved anything and we have further traumatized and displaced and already very vulnerable community. So you're going to make racial equity your number one goal that to me is a terrible place for us to start. So that's, that's where I still remain on that. Yeah, I think, you know, though, I think that there was initially, by the way, like, I think what Tori just said is like 100% on point. And it's, you know, it's, it's reflective of like the big picture, right? Like what this action, the sweeping is, is certainly a temporary fix. I think a band-aid is a good analogy. So I think that's what Tori said is really important to say. I, you know, I think that initially there was a initial plan to do a sweep. And then there was some feedback from the council reflecting on the research, by the way, like the research and like the, we know that, you know, sweeping encampments is not helpful. We know that it does create a traumatic experience for the folks that we're trying to help. And, and it just perpetuates the problem, which is literally just moving it down the road. So, but then the feedback from the council was that we did not want that to happen. And so then they held back on it. And I think in the meantime is then when that proposal came from the Health and Human Services to create a task force that would work with the community partners when there's an encampment that presents a health and safety concern, to then try to, you know, help those folks mitigate the health and safety concerns. Now, the, I agree that this is not fixing the problem. I think that the reason that the, the decision to sweep the encampment was made was because they were looking at it not from the housing perspective, but from the health and safety concerns that were arising from the encampment. So like, you know, the trash and the needles and things like that. And instead of going the route of, you know, fixing it in place, then the decision was made to do the sweep. I, I, you know, the sad part is that even when the task force is in place, which I strongly support that, that proposal. And I think it is going to be helpful. You know, the goal, we had a conversation in our committee about this, the goal of the task force, you know, unfortunately will not be to house those people because there's just isn't houses or housing units for them. So I think what the task force ultimately is going to have to do is focus on mitigating the health and safety concerns that happen when you have an encampment, because encampments, again, they're inevitable, like the conditions of, of housing and, and what's going on right now make it so that encampments are just going to be part of the reality of something major happen. It's, it's the same all over coast to coast. And it really, it often does come down to sanitation, which makes it, it isn't just the problem of the people that are unhoused. They don't have the resources to meet their own sanitation needs. They can't take a shower. There aren't bathrooms available. There's no place to dispose of their rubbish. And then that becomes a public health issue for the city and the neighborhood and so forth. So it really does seem like we need a very systemic approach to, Hey, this is everyone's problem. We're going to have to bring everyone's resources to bear. I have a good friend that's worked at Preble Street for a long time and I know from speaking with her that, you know, some of the individuals that are unhoused really probably are not going to go to a shelter and really would not even be able to succeed in housing without wraparound services. Just getting them an apartment or a hotel room would not result in a successful placement. So it's a complicated problem and, you know, it's very heartbreaking to hear about people being evicted from what little home they have. Right. Yeah, definitely. I will say, I mean, and just to give credit to the council and the committee, acknowledging that the sweep was going to happen, you know, I think all the counselors wanted to make sure that it was done if this is even feasible in a humane way as possible. So the community partners were out there, you know, talking to the folks. I think the notices were given several days in advance, letting people know what was going to happen. So they did, you know, the process in which they they went about it, I believe was reflective of what the council wanted to make sure it happened. So I had the effort, I guess, of listening to the council was there. I mean, the Riverton shelter, many people didn't like where it was located, but it's much bigger than the previous shelter. It was full immediately, right? And then the influx of refugees that Portland has been experiencing, being housed in the expo, that was full within a week, right? If I am immediately full, you're in a pretty extreme situation. Yeah, definitely. Well, I want to also move to another terrible topic, thorny topic before we, you know, when we have enough time to discuss it. And that is the police response to literal Nazis marching through the city streets and assaulting people right on the steps of city hall. I think that shocked many of us. And many people came to the public hearing to express. It was a little bit nostalgic for me as a former high school teacher up in northern Maine, where many of the people that testified are LGBTQ and they said, I'm from namesome town north of Portland. I came here as soon as I graduated high school or whatever. And this is where I feel safe. I have been able to feel safe in Portland. And now I, you know, now we have literal Nazi group coming to town and assaulting people for being, you know, gay or other LGBTQ and no consequences. Like basically the police let them walk away. That scares me. And I don't know how much control the city council has over policing. I heard some pretty strong words from both of you and the council meetings, but what's been happening since then? That was about a, what, month ago? Did I happen? Yeah. Yeah, it was about a month ago because it was in, the Nazis came here on April 1st, I think. That's right. And then we had that conversation, I think, a week later. So yeah, I think it has been almost exactly a month. Yeah, I mean, my statements are, you know, for everyone to hear. So I don't know that I need to go back on what I had shared, which was that I was extremely disappointed with the display, that the cops displayed with letting the Nazis walk free. It was really hard to sit through two hours of public comment where every single person said they don't feel safe. And we heard really, really emotionally challenging takes from a lot of people who were out that day. And that is not, like, that was just unacceptable to me to get to afterwards get the police report and show that, you know, what they did was correct. And here's why. And I, yeah, I was really upset and I still am. And nothing has happened since then. We were supposed to have a workshop. I think maybe two weeks ago or what was before the council meeting. Maybe, yeah, I think it was about two weeks ago, we were supposed to have a workshop that has since been postponed to June 12, I think, because we're waiting for the police to finish a summary or some kind of report on next steps or whatever. So to answer your question, nothing has happened and is increasingly every single day really frustrating and just like a huge slap. In the face to me and a lot of other people in Portland who are waiting for a response from the city and have gotten nothing. One of the things I was kind of shocked by was the police testimony that, well, we knew an assault occurred and we even witnessed an assault occurring in Frazee Hall, but we didn't know who started it. Okay, again, I'm a retired teacher. If somebody sock somebody on the playground, it doesn't matter who started it. The person that I see socking that other person has violated the rules and there will be consequences. Now, should I do an investigation and find out what happened prior to that I didn't witness? Of course, but to say we don't know who started it, that seemed ridiculous to me. Yeah, I mean, when you get into the legality of when they're assessing first amendment rights and how the assault and whether someone's reporting, the process is intended to process as a tool to oppress people and it could be used any which way the oppressor wants it. And police department, that's the way that they're going. I'll be very honest with you. I'm always very concerned with a community that doesn't feel safe. I'm always very concerned. It's shocking to see literally Nazis writing around town. I don't know what the answer is. I literally do not know what the answer is. I don't know that anyone expects me or anyone else to know the answer. I don't even know what leverage is to pull. It's this weird thing. It became this thing of yes, I acknowledge this horrible thing and I'm not entirely sure what to do. I mean, something bad's happened. Call the police. We did. Well, April 1st was a missed opportunity because the people that were assaulted said, you know, okay, I've been assaulted, but the people that they said assaulted them were allowed to remain masked, never asked to show ID or identify or question at all. I mean, that's a deliberately missed opportunity. And once it's over, then you can do all kinds of things and have, you know, workshops and this and that. But at the time that a crime, a physical violence is occurring, you kind of have to act then and it's hard to go back later if you don't even know who the perpetrators were. How are you going to follow up? Yeah. And I think too, it sends a really strong signal that the police aren't going to do anything. So this can happen again. And I would be very surprised if this doesn't happen again. And these individuals don't come back. There were 30 something, you know, people walking around and specifically went to the Immigrant Welcome Center, specifically went to City Hall and with the sign that said defend white communities or whatever it said and the police drew their weapon, ordered everyone onto the ground and then let them all go. So that's a huge, to me, that's like a signal that like, well, the cops aren't going to do anything in Portland. So like, let's organize and go back because we didn't take any type of stand. And to me, that was, that was, like you said, a huge missed opportunity. And also it was really scary showing that Portland police, you know, police department is not going to take your name. They're not going to ID you. So you want to come and walk around in a mask and terrorize people with a sign that says defend white communities. The most you'll get is like a little slap on the wrist, but you won't get ID and you'll get to go home. It seems to me that when law enforcement fails to act, that it's an invitation also to individual citizens saying, well, if the police aren't going to do something, we're going to do something, you know, that kind of vigilanteism. I understand where it's coming from, but I don't think that that will increase the public safety either. You know, there's a reason that we have structures like city government and law enforcement. It's a big problem. Yeah. I mean, we have pride coming up in next month. And like, we talked about this, I think this time last year, because there was like a threat right around pride. And I remember I mentioned that on this show, because we were, we saw some stuff and, you know, nothing, of course, thank God happened, but, you know, we just, we, we have a lot of work to do, I think, and to restore the trust that has been lost by so many residents of Portland who want to be able to walk around here and not be attacked for their identity. And I think that was a huge misstep. And just as, just personally, really disappointing and really sad for those of us who are Black and people of color are queer LGBTQ individuals, like being under attack by people for our identity. I thought an interesting point that more than one of the public testimonies covered was, you know, the reason that Portland is a vibrant community where people come from all over the nation, really, certainly the Eastern seaboard to vacation here, eat here, enjoy the performing arts here is because, you know, we are here, we are the ones, we are the ones that are the artists that, you know, are the servers that are the, have created this culture that everyone's benefiting from economically. And what will happen to that if you allow the city of Portland to go in this direction? I thought that was an interesting point. It wouldn't have occurred to me that economic lens to look at it. Yeah. You know, didn't Portland just get voted on to U.S. News, World Reports, Top, whatever? You know, how long can you stay on the, oh, that's where I want to move to or even that's where I want to go on vacation. If you're having these kind of incidences with regularity, that's bound to affect that. Would I be wrong in thinking that the police chief of Portland right now is an interim police chief? What's happening with that process you can share? Yeah, I think the position was posted. I believe it was either reposted or was put back out. So, we're still, I guess, looking for a long-term or replacement chief. You know, that's another part, I'm sorry, before my thoughts went together, but that's another piece to me. I've been saying we have an interim chief, you know, a lot of the talk that we've, that I'm waiting to have about our department, I think, require us to have a permanent chief and to look at the department altogether. I think we'll have, as part of the budget discussion, we're talking about wage increases as part of a recruitment and retention strategy. And, you know, I'm strongly, you know, opposed to that, you know, to entering some wage war with other municipalities in Maine, you know, blow up our budget without any strategy of, you know, how do you, you know, actually get to the goal of retention and recruitment? So I, you know, I'm very much, you know, I think that once we get a chief, I'm very much, especially now with the manager in place, looking forward to having an opportunity to look at, you know, what does the police department have to do to both respond to a constituency that is saying that they don't feel safe in their own community and also, you know, their own claims of not being able to recruit and retain officers. So it's your, your, you have, I said, and this perhaps is not the right framing, but, you know, they have a PR problem. No one wants to be a cop because you get end up, you know, behaving in a way that makes your community feel unsafe, you know, when shit like this happens. So I think, again, a strategic plan around our department to assess what the culture is in this police department. Is it a healthy relationship that they have with their communities? You know, I bet different, you knock on 10 doors, you're going to get 10 different answers to that. People see the police very differently in the role that they play in our communities. And it isn't just the police department that has so many vacancies or so much trouble recruiting and hiring. Aren't, didn't you tell me before we started tonight that there were 200 vacancies in city, of city roles? Well, there were when we did the state of the city, but I still think we're right around there when, when the state of the city was given in, what was that, November? And there were like 220 something vacancies and it's May now. I don't think a lot of those have been filled. So I wouldn't be surprised if we're right around that number still. Yeah, pretty significant. It's hard to execute on the strategic plan when you have so many roles vacant for a long time. Yeah, we're having an interesting council year for council term for sure. But I have a sense, I don't know, the palace shouldn't say this. I feel like not just in, in our world, but like in the totality of like, you know, labor market, I feel like there's some pieces that are starting to get more stability and maybe hiring becomes easier. I think, yeah, I hope that that's the case because we're looking at the next year, hopefully fill a lot of these vacancies, especially the department has like the key pieces. And hopefully now that we have an actual full time city manager, people are more likely to take on those full time department head positions and then that trickles down to staff being filled in. I mean, I'd be hesitant to take a key role if I have an interim department and an interim boss. I don't even know what the plan is going to be a year from now. So I think hopefully this or who's going to be evaluating you or even if you will be evaluating. We know that some roles have gone a long, went a long time without being evaluated. Absolutely. It's always a tricky, tricky thing. Well, I had a conversation with a public school teacher in Portland this week where I mentioned that my granddaughter would be starting kindergarten and this person said, have ever got a kind of panicky look and said, have her parents registered her yet? And I said, yes. But that told me that the influx of new mainers, new public school students, new portlanders is significant and that city departments and the school want to meet the needs of the people that they serve. But sometimes logistically, it's very, very challenging, at least in the short term. Yeah, no, logistically, it's challenging. And I think what's really, really important is to always remember that the schools do so much more than just teach core instruction. They provide meals. They provide counseling. A lot of these students, those hours that are in the school building are the safest that they'll be. It's where they're guaranteed to be safe. And so schools do so much more than just providing core instruction. And so, yeah, it takes a lot of capacity. It takes a lot of partnering with obviously community organizations that are interacting with the asylum seekers that are coming in. And it takes a huge heart. I mean, because these are people, right? You're literally building your community with these folks that are entering our schools and settling into our communities and neighborhoods. So you're not just dealing with a number, right? We talk about numbers in beds and shelters, but these are like human beings with families and small children. And we talk about early childhood education being the most important thing and setting you up for a path of success in life, right? How do you take advantage of all the great things that we just talked about, this top-ranked city has, where if you don't have a core foundational start to your life, you can do that. And so early childhood education is key. And again, go out there in June and support your school budget and make sure your schools have everything they need. Well, I'm sorry to say we're out of time. Thanks so much for being here this evening. Thank you, audience at home, for being with us. Thank you so much to the Portland Media Center and the great tech crew here that make it possible. You can catch our podcast of our past shows on now Apple as well as Spotify. You can catch the archive of our video shows on YouTube or on the Portland Media Center website. And we will see you on Friday, June 7th, 6th, 6th at 7 p.m. We use that as the second Friday in June. And we will see you each second Friday thereafter. So thanks so much for being with us. It's a real honor and a privilege to be able to do this show. And I'm so happy to do it with the two of you. See you, baby. It's a brilliant project.