 Charlie Bronson is a good friend of mine, I've known Charlie for a long time. The system made Charlie Bronson. The Bronson is the system. That's his mum and dad. They lock him in cages, treat him like an animal. I know he's got a bad temporal record, but underneath all that, he's a nice person, Charlie Bronson. He does all his art. He's never killed anyone, he's still banged up now. And this is going on. I've got loads of mates who are still in there now. But my Cody friend, he's never coming home, right? And he's got these other kids, outrageous murders like kids and things like that. And they treat people more like me, who's after a few quits. A lot worse than what they do to a child if they want to bang us up when they lock me up, you know? There's Peter Fields out there just getting six months to third sentence, 18 months and they're doing some nasty shit. Do you know what I mean? But again, the system is flawed. There's a fault in it that's set up to fail. What was Charlie Bronson like then? How's he still in good contact? It was a funny story. We was in Franklin's and there's only like 10 cockney eyes. He's turned up there. Can you know what? He's fucking shut the gate of his head. And we went, what? But really? So they don't do things like that, mate. And then the geezer turns up, I'm standing with a fella and he walks up and sees the graphs. Well, I knew him from, I knew him, they were strapping bombs to security guards, right? I knew all about it because people would come from my area. Most armed robbers were sort of brought up in the area because you know where they are. Like, if you watch a film called Town, Boston was the main thing for armed robbers. Canningtown in Stratford was a breeding ground for people like me, you know? And so anyway, it calls him a grass. So I swear I've done marks, I'll sweep the geese's legs, kick the geese in the head, knock him out on the floor. So Bronson went, fucking help it, what a fucking kick that was. And I went, yeah, all the screws come out, we're in Franklin prison. And then we're trying to take me off the yard, right? So they come walking over, I went, we're coming in. So me and Bronson all about took the cockney eyes with fucks. We have to have it off all the screws. So we had a big punch out of the screws, they've run, they've run, they've run. All the screws have run, started locking the cells in the blocks and that. So they go, right, let's take the jow over. But never, never, never happened in Franklin before. So I said, fuck me, I'll start this off, I'll get another 10 of you, alright? So I was going to come, let's just say, lock the cells. Anyway, it all gets calmed down, then it goes off again. And then Bronson's involved with it again anyways. So they put me down the block. So they said, right, if you don't come out of the block, don't get him out of the block, we're going to smash your jow up, alright? So anyway, so they give in. So this is the funny story. They said, right, we want to hear what you want to say about Cockney A's or Cockney double A's. He said, we want to hear what you said. So there's going to be three governors, bring three inmates and we'll sit down and stop the beatings and all that's what we wanted, right? So he goes into the governor's office. There's a governor sitting there, a governor sitting there. A governor sitting there, I think, I was with Nicky Dumford at the time. So we walked to him, there's another category A. So he said, right, what do you want? All of a sudden the door goes bang, the door flicks open. And I like joking. He's standing, bollock-naking, big pair of boots on. He had a flissin tube off at the lab. And he went to the governor's, there, there, there. And I like joking. Then three governors sat there like that. They sound like Tom and Jerry. They went, he's asleep through the things like that. And that was Charlie Bronson. He was just like a fucking character. Yeah, because he only got jailed for a robbery at the time. Yeah. Now he's over 30 years. Yeah, and he's still in there. I mean, there's loads of people in there like him. Do you think he'll ever get out? I hope he does. He's a nice bloke. I hope he does. There's loads of people like Paul Glenn. He should be released. He should be there. Who's he? He's my Cody friend. He never killed that person. He should be released. He was there. He's going to get some bourbon. Don't lock him up for the rest of his life. So he didn't do. Charlie Bronson was there, Charlie. You know, I went all the way through Charlie. What was Charlie like? Charlie is good as gold. You know, I'm in his books. And a funny thing, I meant to be going to see Charlie right with the screen right, because there's different stuff happening here. And you know, he mentioned me in all, you know, his books and then books from them days when we was coming through that stuff. So I went all the way through with Charlie. I like Charlie. He's like that old school. He's very like the old man in the circus. But Charlie, Charlie, Charlie is misunderstood in a lot of ways. I think we all was, you know, then really. Because he did a robbery. Now he's still in. He's just, he's, um, yeah. Because I know I had Vic Darko on his way. I want to know, you know, Vic and Vicks, really partly with Charlie. He's sent a message, wanting me to send a message to Charlie for, because they try to get him out for his release. He should be released. Charlie on the show for the podcast, because I know he's never been. I think he writes a lot of letters, I think. He does. He's a great artist, James. And people who spent time with him, speak highly of him. But again, the people who are involved with him were all high security fucking. There's 10 people who take you for a shit in a shower. So you've, for people who speak out and say he's a good guy, people won't understand it. They won't understand that. They will go, well, you're all fucking nuts. You're getting moved up and down stairs and sleeping in concrete. You ever live with Charlie Bronson? Yeah, I was with Charlie Bronson up in Franklin's prison. I was next door to him in a segregation unit. And I was next door to him in, um, sorry, I was with him in Winston Green. How was he? Prison. Charlie Bronson, I think, is an absolutely adorable person. He was always a gentleman to me. He was always extremely kind. Unfortunately, he doesn't have the best press in the world. But he was always a gentleman to me and a gentleman and he was, I'll say, he was, to me, I thought he was bit of a lovable rogue. Yeah, because I think he's... Bit of a rough diamond, you know? Yeah, he spent over 40 years. He's never done a monitor. He's the constant brand. I think it's the press that maybe keep him in. But I think he's tried to change that now. I think he's got a good team behind him, because I was speaking to Vic Dart and he says they're trying to get the team behind him. We are. They're not trying to portray that. I mean, it's because all the books and films, it's all violence. They're trying to change that to hopefully get him out now. But of course, Charlie, Charlie's big enough to take this, but, um, some of his artwork could be considered homophobic. And I think this is why he received his last sentence, because an art teacher called Charlie out on that. Charlie went to the art teacher and said, what do you think of my art? And the teacher, I believe was gay, wasn't too favorable in his comments to our Charlie, and, you know, Charlie kicked off. And now he's got the sentences got now. I don't think Charlie Bronson is homophobic. I think he's provocative. And, um, and of course, I wish him well. And, um, Charlie, if you've got a mobile phone and you see this, send me a visit and order, and I will come up and see any way you are in this country. Who is the maddest person you were in prison with? Oh, Charlie Bronson. Yeah, we're in with Charlie. I love Charlie. A lot of people don't like him, but I found him very, very funny. I'm still in touch with him to a certain extent today, but he was kind of the reason I like Charlie Bronson back in the early days. Not so much now. I mean, I still like him. He's a nice guy. I wouldn't like him living next door to me. That's for sure. But, and I've had him living next door to me in a block in Highdown. But, um, he was kind of like where in the 80s where the screws had complete control of the prison system before strange ways. Jails like ones were from Brixton. The screws were brutal. And I mean, absolutely brutal. And to see Charlie Bronson strolling for a prison with eight screws running after him and him just marching along, like, with him opening the doors and trying to get out of his way before, because that's what he was doing, just a pair of boots and a prison raincoat. He was kind of our guy, you know? I mean, he was our... I wouldn't say hero, but he was our tool against the prison system. You know, he was actually knocking screws up in the air and knocking them out. And when we'd done it, we was getting half-killed. You know what I mean? So he was kind of a bit of a hero. How much could... How, through as that, that he could feet? He could scrap? Charlie? He could have a good route. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say with Superman. You know, and what I found in Joe is a lot of people who you think might be sort of invulnerable or they've got a reputation of being so hard, you can't even... They're not really there. I mean, everybody's human. Everybody's got their own weaknesses, yeah.