 You also want to believe so hard that you could take something that will not require you to change your lifestyle, but dramatically change the way you look and the way you feel. There's also the factor of having disposable income too. Listen, if I have the, if I have the extra, the money and even if it gives me a half of a 0.05% edge, this is also after you're working out consistently, you're watching your diet, you're watching your sleep. Yeah, no, true. I mean, that's, I mean, definitely there's no way I would be wasting like someone putting a decal on their car because I want to go faster. That's the first thing to do is put a sticker. But I mean, if you want your car to look cool and you can afford the decal, it doesn't matter. Of all the things you can do to positively affect your health, athletic performance, ability to build muscle and burn body fat, way down at the bottom of the list are supplements. They are largely a waste of time unless you're super advanced and have everything dialed in, in which case they can help maybe 1%. I want to believe those. I'm glad you brought this up because we, we recently had a live call or ask us a good question around creatine, right? Like, and feeling it new first time, uh, like lifter or relatively new lifter, um, has, has heard everybody, uh, touting creatine decides to get it and is like confused on, I don't think I feel it or I'm not sure if I feel it. I'm so glad you brought that up because of all the supplements that exist for that are ergogenic, right? Ergogenic type supplements, performance enhancing, build muscle, that kind of stuff, creatine is the best. It has the most studies. It's got literally thousands of human studies. It's proven to work and even, even creatine, you take creatine. It's not going to blow your mind. Um, supplements are largely a waste of time. And for the, for 99% of people watching this, uh, supplements are a waste of time to focus on. Now the problem is that the, the industry is fueled by the profits that come from supplements. And I get this, um, most of the money made in the fitness and health space comes from pills and powders. So it's natural that the information that we get from the health and fitness space is going to come through that lens, right? If I'm going to write articles and blogs and do podcasts and do media, it, a lot of us can be directed towards helping me sell my products. So it's this distorted view of what's important. What's not important. I mean, and the truth is literally if you looked at a pie of all the things that could affect your health and improve your health and your fitness and all that stuff, uh, 98.9% would be your lifestyle, your sleep, your diet, your exercise, a lot of free stuff. And it's, and then 1.1% would be supplements. The only time supplements make a big difference is when you actually have a nutrient deficiency, which, um, most people don't take supplements for that at all, or in order to they have, uh, nutrient deficiencies that need, um, solving usually, right? When that was, when that's the case, it makes a big difference, but it doesn't make, uh, it's just one of those things. You know, this conversation also highlights like, cause the kid was asking about not feeling it and not sure if it was working, but it also highlights why the largest, uh, category of supplement sales is pre-workouts. You feel it because it's the one, it is the supplement that you, and why the game is just keep pumping more, more caffeine, I remember when pre-workout first kind of hit the market, well, I should backpedal first because I know there was things like Jack 3D, the Dr. Jackhold, Mr. Hyde stuff, like, there was a few companies out there that was pumping pretty high, uh, caffeine, but I've watched, you know, it go up and up and up. Like it started off being like a hundred, a hundred milligrams to 200 milligrams of caffeine. They had a fedra back in the day and then they got rid of that and then had to go to the caffeine. And so anything to equate towards that kind of feeling had to be a high. Yeah. I remember when the pre-workout market, so the first, the first actual supplement kind of brand that marketed itself as a pre-workout, by the way, I'm a supplement, uh, fanatic and I have probably an unhealthy relationship with supplements. So I'm communicating through, through that, right? So I understand, I get the whole, I get the market, I understand what's happening. Now I remember as a kid, there was a product called ultimate orange. Yeah. This was the first product to be marketed as a, as a pre-workout. And it had a fedran, a fedra caffeine, it had the ECA stack, a fedra caffeine aspirin. I mean, you take it, it's like, you're going to feel it. Um, but it wasn't super popular yet. It was really hardcore. People kind of took it. And then it was like super pumped to 50 came out. And what they did with some of these pre-workouts is, and it was brilliant marketing. It was so brilliant, right? The classic before and after, right? 30 days is what you could look like. 60 days, which it looked like. And what they did with these pre-workouts that was brilliant is they showed before pump, after pump. So they took muscular guys. Cause the more muscle you have in the leaner you are, the more dramatic you look when you get a pump. I mean, I look like I gained 15 pounds of lean body mass when I get a pump sometimes. Right. By the way, if you see a picture of me on Instagram, it's with a pump. It's never flat. By the way, too, people are always arguing the wrong point when they see the, I get sent this, can this be true or this isn't real? It's like, no, it's actually probably really that guy. And he probably really is the course of a month or whatever like that. You can dramatically change the way somebody looks with carbs, water, a pump and lighting. I mean, dramatically. Yeah. But let's, let's also go, let's also step back for a second. What they do a lot of is they take a shredded, you know, presentation stage, stage, and they say gain a bunch of body fat. I got pitched. That was, I got pitched that all the time. Slouch your posture. We'll make that the before picture. When you go to shows. Okay. So, uh, when you get into the competitive space, shows are, uh, dominated by supplement companies that basically, if it wasn't for supplement companies, body building shows wouldn't happen. They are the ones that sponsor and advertise. So when you see these backdrops and you see all these brands back there, they've all donated thousands and thousands of dollars for these, these shows to even happen. And what they do is they send a representative from that company that is in the audience watching and they are looking for somebody in the top five who's good looking, good looking, top five. And then they approach them afterwards and they try and get them to attach to their brand. So they don't even have to never use their product before they got shredded that way without even knowing the brand. They come up and they say, Hey, we'd like to sponsor you as an athlete, pay you to advertise one of the, and the, okay, yeah, that sounds great. I was a broke bodybuilder. This sounds like a great idea. I needed money anyways. So you agree to it. And then one of the first campaigns they do is here we are, you're already shredded. So let's take those photos and let's get you in. This week, if you can, and that's the after. Yeah. And this becomes your after and then go ahead and put weight on and that'll be the before. Yeah. And then, and then we take photos after you put on 15, 20 pounds and then you switch those. And it's like, wow, dude got hella shredded. No, actually he was shredded and then gained body fat and they switched those. The other thing that they do is they'll go after someone who's got a lot of muscle memory who kind of got out of shape in which case they can get in shape really quick. Or like you said, Adam, there's a lot you could do with lighting and super strict everything and crazy stuff. And yes, you can make people look different. But what they do with his pre-workout campaign, which was brilliant is they showed pre-pump, post-pump. So they said, here's John before the workout. And he's staying there and he's cold. I mean, you can tell he has a lot of muscle, but he's kind of cold. No pump. And then this is afterwards. He's got a pump that looks dramatic and then they're like, you know, super pump 250 or ultra pump or whatever the supplement was. And it was brilliant marketing and people bought it and you're right, you can feel it. But these supplements do so little. They do so little for, for your success. They can be fun to take, you know, you can protein powders can help if you don't get enough protein in your diet and all that stuff. But man, I got to keep communicating this. You know, I know we're sponsored by supplement companies. They know we're very honest about this. I think that's one of the reasons why our audience trusts us. I'm not going to lie. They don't make that big of a, like no supplements make that big of a difference. They just don't. I just feel like no matter how many times we say it, it's just, it's the human psychology is so much more powerful. This isn't always going to work. And I mean, I catch myself even like looking at a picture and looking at like, you know, an obviously whatever you guys just described or it's doctor or whatever, but I'm still like drawn to it. I'm like, oh, what is this? And it's just like, I don't know that I guess I would compare it to like you're going to a magician, like you're watching a magician on stage and you know there's a trick to this and you know that like there's a sleight of hand, you know, there's like, you know, all this logical explanation for what's going on. But at the same time, you're just like, whoa, you know, magic. I think it's real. You also want to believe so hard that you could take something that will not require you to change your lifestyle, but dramatically change the way you look and the way you feel. Yeah. Western medicine feeds into this as well with how we use drugs and medications and stuff. Totally. And so it's you want to believe that. There's also the factor of having disposable income too. Right. I mean, that's kind of how I've always looked at it. It's like, listen, if I have the if I have the extra, the money and even if it gives me half of a point zero five percent edge and I and I it doesn't hit my pocket. But this is also after you're working out consistently, you're watching your diet. Yeah. Yeah. You're watching your sleep. Yeah. No. True. I mean, that's I mean, definitely. There's no way I would be wasting like someone putting a decal on their car because I want to go faster. That's the first thing to do is put a sticker. But I mean, if you want your car to look cool and you can afford the decal, it doesn't matter. Got little flames, you know, I've been saying the spoiler analogy forever. And it is like throwing a actually, it's like putting a racing steering wheel on your car. That's even better. Now I'm serious. What's up, y'all? Here's the giveaway today. The RGB bundle. Maps, anabolic, mass performance, maps, aesthetic bundle together for free. Here's how you win. Leave a comment below in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode. Subscribe to this channel. Turn on notifications, do all those things. If we like your comment, we'll notify you in the comment section. You'll hear from us and we'll let you know that you won free access to the RGB bundle. Also, we got a sale going on right now. Two bundles on sale. The first bundle is the skinny guy bundle. This is maps, anabolic, maps, aesthetic, the no BS six pack formula, the intuitive nutrition guide and the occlusion training guide. All of that 50% off. The other bundle that's on sale is the fit mom bundle. This includes maps anywhere maps, anabolic maps it in the intuitive nutrition guide. Again, that's also 50% off. You can find both of these by clicking on the link at the top of the description below to get the 50% off discount. All right, here comes a show. I had this, I totally did not think about this until right now. I had this I was driving the day I was driving fast. At what point? Like how fast of a car or how nice of a car do you have? Do you need to have to justify getting driving gloves? I really want that. I saw some of the other. I really want driving gloves. Why? Why do you wear driving gloves? Why do people wear them? There's two reasons why. There's two reasons why and driving slow. Well, I mean, one, I mean, you get the oil on your hand and so it will tarnish like nice steering wheels. So you have like really nice way or really real, real wood. So in like your Bentley or whatever like that, you don't want to you don't want to tarnish, tarnish that from the oils and then also get a better grip on the wheel. You know what I'm saying? So what do you do with the steering wheel, bro? You know, what point, what point can I justify putting my gloves on? Bro, this morning I was driving. I want to get a pair. I'm going to bring that I'm going to make that popular. I got a loaner. Is there a rule, Doug? Is there a driving glove? I don't think so. You have a pair, don't you? I do not. But now that you mention it, you should do it. I don't think you need to have a reason. Just do it. Have you seen the Ferrari shoes? Like like some of these guys that are just like all pointy and narrow and like, you know, red, just like their car. I've always said that was funny. It was rocking like that was actually Ferrari one. There's Ferrari shoes for a jacket. It's that the hat and everything that and then not have one. I just think that's really if I got it, if I got in someone's car and then they'd put all the gloves to drive, I'm going to do it. My friend, you said that the key chain that was a Ferrari up the top selling driving gloves on Amazon. And go ahead and order me a pair on the car. No, you're not. I swear to God. The move is I seriously want to get there. I'm going to get you an Ascot as well. Like a scarf that goes around your neck. I actually have that. Yeah, the key ring like so that when my friends did that and we used to go out to the bars or whatever. And he would have like a key chain of just like a Ferrari and like would just like throw his keys on the bar. I'm like, do you such an asshole? You know what? He believes you. We grew. Hey, you know what? Though we grew up in the era of worthless car accessories because remember when like car racing got popular and you had like the fast Japanese cars or whatever. And there was all these like you could get like a short shifter. I had a 170. I had a short. I had a short shifter and I mean that all the stuff is adds up on racing in the quarter mile, right? So that's where that's where which I never did. Right. So. OK, let's do the bro. I swear to God, if you wear I swear to God, I will, bro. I want to do the ones on the tobacco color. Right. Those brown. Actually, you know, let's do those brown ones, though. The top left. I was at the highest rated. Boy, let me see. Oh, there's red ones. Go the red ones. I'll match my interior. Go over. Go back, go back, go back, go back. OK, I'm going to go back. Go back, man. So much pressure. Oh, no, no. Which do I'm going to find? I'm OK. There we go. See the red. Oh, yeah, there you go. Oh, yes. Get me those. I'm assuming you want the extra mark. I love how it has the knuckles cut out. Why are the knuckles cut out? Oh, to free the knuckle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You must free the knuckle. Yeah, freeing the nipple. In case you. Yeah, I guess in case you backhand your assistant or something in the back because you're that pretentious. Let me see the white ones for Justin. Oh, yeah, definitely hook me up. Because I got white. I think they should be sequined. That's what it was. I bet you're teary. Let's go. A bunch of weird. Can we start a trend? Now you see me. Now you don't. Bro, you can do this, too. I'm not going to wear gloves. Let me see the other colors for Sal. We're getting a pair for everybody. I don't want color. Doug, what do you want? Doug, get the brown. Oh, look at that. These are black with red stitching. Oh, those. That's the ones you want right there. Those are the ones I want. I want those. You get the brown ones. Justin, get the white ones. Sal doesn't get to participate. Yeah, that's all right. You guys all have the same color. That's fine. You don't get to participate. You don't get to participate in this. No, I won't be wearing no gloves when I drive. So it is still a thing. I mean, obviously, they sell them on there. How many reviews? You got a lot of reviews, too, no? Yeah, almost 1,200 reviews. OK. So there's at least 1,200 people out there. People weren't to work out. I'm going to order lattes just like with those on. When I, when I, this more, actually, I have a loaner car right now because I had to take my car in to get some noise fixed or whatever. Yeah. So I'm driving this like small, like 330, you know, BMW 330 or whatever. And it's coming to work. And I was late to be on a podcast. I know how fun it is to drive a small car. Dude, I was power sliding over here on the side. Especially when it's not yours. Brrr! Yeah, but it's a drive a small car, but it's not yours, too. Bro, I scared the shit because there's a little homeless encampment underneath the overpass over there. So I power slide underneath that, dude. Everybody's like, look, everybody up. Oh, my God. It was a good time. It's good fun. I'm so excited. I'll reimburse the company. Doug, go ahead and do get those, please. Anyway, so speaking of supplements, so here's just two things that got me on this topic. One was that stupid ad you sent us from. What's the name? No, Tony Horton. Tony Horton. Did you know? OK, so he got, what was the disease he got? What was the condition? It's the one that Bieber had. The Ramsey. It's called Ramsey or something? Something like that. It's the one that Justin Bieber had where you lose Justin Bieber. I didn't even know Justin Bieber had that. Yeah, he did. So he got Ramsey Hunt. Ramsey Hunt, yeah. Syndrome. Neurological? Paralysis in the face. And yeah, it had the neurological. Looks like Bell's palsy. Bell's palsy disorder. And he, I mean, he was like in a wheelchair. He like lost all kinds of muscle mass. The ad, and it's a brilliant ad, but it's so ridiculous. It's like this attractive girl. And she's like, you know, there's this compound. No, she starts off. Did you ever wonder what happened in the P90X guy? And then he has a crazy story. Yes. Yeah. And then they go down this thing like he lost all this muscle and like, you know, was hopeless and blah, blah, blah. And there's this compound. There's this compound that builds muscle without working out. And it's based on, and she goes, it's based on actual science. Actually, none of that other kind of science. Not that P90X science, you know what I'm saying? You know what the compound is? The compound, it's first of all, it's a plant protein powder. Okay, great. Is that what it was? Yes. And they added HMB. HMB is a metabolite of leucine. I've talked about this before. And yes, there are studies that show that if you give it to old people, that they build a little bit of muscle because it's a signal of muscle growth, just like the amino acid leucine. I've taken HMB five bazillion times. You don't notice it. You just don't notice it. No, you don't notice it. Yeah, not even at all. And if your protein intake is high, it doesn't do anything. But they- What a cocksucker, huh? I don't know. If you didn't make enough money already on P90X, you still gotta be scamming people when you're like 65 years old? Yeah, and do you remember- Come along, guys. Do you remember the P90X workouts? It's a pure hustle, dude. Do you remember that? My dad used to do them. I remember I was an early trainer. I was like, when I was 20 years old, and my dad bringing it to me and showing it to me and be like, oh, so he's ranting and raving all by. And I'm like, dad, you do see it because it comes with a diet. Basically, it comes with a 1,500 calorie diet and plyometrics six days a week. I'm like, yeah, no shit, dad, you lost weight. You say you literally starved your body and you went from being like a couch potato to doing plyometrics in your living room. And I feel terrible, but I lost weight. Yeah, I remember clients would bring it to me and they're like, oh man, I couldn't even make it through half the workout. I almost threw up. Is it great? And they're like, no. You're not getting a bucket, it's awesome. So here's the second thing, right? So last night I was on with the NCI coaches and one of the guys on there, I love this guy. He's on there all the time. He brings up this new compound that the bio hackers have been talking about because supposedly it's good for longevity. It's called spermadine. Is it real? That's the name of it. Is it in the name? Like the name is in the compound. Just call a duty call sign. Yeah. What? I've seen him game him a lot. Spermadino, hey there, spermadino. It's spermadino in my face. That's what I think it is. Oh my God. It's an active compound. So the guy brings it up and he's like, I've heard about this. It's supposed to be good for longevity. I'm like, spermadine. I'm like, I wonder where that's from. I looked it up. Sure enough, it's a compound found in semen. And that's where they get the name spermadine. It's also found in food. It's a compound found in foods. And there are some animal studies that show that it might help with mitochondrial health and maybe longevity. Doesn't mean you should take it because who knows what's gonna do whatever. But anyway, it's just a new supplement and it's called spermadine and they find it in semen. Any, okay, any, since we're ragging on we're ragging on supplements today. Send the study to your wife. Yeah, what drew him in that direction? Because I guess these biohackers are talking about it. They'll do anything. Well, I mean, exactly. Any predictions on, I mean, I think a long time ago, we predicted like the, if there's gonna be a big breakthrough in supplements, it's gonna be somewhere around the myostatin block or something like that. Do you still stand by that? That that'll be the probably the next big. Well, a drug. Yeah. Yeah, if they do that, my God, when they experiment on animals and they mess with that myostatin, the muscle they grow is, it would make anabolic steroids look like Flintstone vitamins, like nothing. So yeah, that'll be the best. If they figure that out, that's like a switch. It's literally like a switch you turn on. I mean, what about like peptides though? What would you put that in? What category would you put that in? Peptides have real effects in the body. I mean, these are real. I mean, so do the supplements or else they wouldn't exist. Well, what I mean. If we were comparing them. No, I wouldn't do, I would not do peptides without doctor supervision because they have real effects on hormones in the body. And that could be good or bad to pay on the individual. Whereas supplements largely do nothing often. So go ahead and take them, I guess as much as you want. Although some do have lots of effects, like stimulants and stuff, but no peptides, I would do doctor supervision. But again, even anabolic steroids are not gonna give you all these crazy results without diet and exercise. Even that, even the most effective, ergogenic, illegal black market, whatever, it's still not gonna make you. You could give, and I remember learning this as an early trainer. I thought bodybuilders and athletes looked the way they did because of steroids. That's what I thought. Until I started working in gyms and 50% of the trainers take a bunch of anabolic steroids until I started taking steroids and they're just like super puffy and bloated and they were never gaining muscle. I'm like, what's happening? I had a crazy, my first experience with steroids, and I was a skinny kid. I got leaner, I got pissed. I was like, the whole point of me taking back then was I wanted to get it. Because your diet wasn't great. Yeah, yeah, no, of course, you know, I just, I didn't, couldn't figure that out yet. I worked with this guy, I won't say his name, but he, this was back when I owned, I had ownership of a gym down in Palm Spring area. And so Mexico is real close, right? So he would go down there with this trainer and they'd come back with all these steroids. And this other trainer was kind of a bodybuilder, had everything dialed in and you could tell that he would get on gear and stuff. This other guy was this sales guy that worked for me. And he was kind of into working out, kind of not ate garbage. Anyway, he goes on and he was a kamikaze kind of guy. So this is the kind of guy that, you know, if you go out drinking with him, he'll, like he just goes crazy. No regard for his health, right? He was taking doses of anabolics that all of us were like, bro, you're going to hurt yourself. You're going to kill yourself. This is dangerous. Like what are you doing? He gained like seven pounds, maybe seven pounds of muscle, maybe and bloated. He didn't look, and I remember that's when I was like, oh, okay, this stuff is not magic. Yeah. You know, since we're talking about steroids and supplement peddling, I feel like we should bring up your boy. Hmm. Yeah. Who? Michael Hearn. Oh, what about him? Have you seen him right now? He looks crazy. Dude, that guy, I don't care if you're on all the steroids. That guy looks amazing. That guy is a superhero. He is a super dude. But why does, why continue to deny the anabolic use? Maybe he's honest, dude. To me, it, stop it. Well, A. Stop it. You've met pro athletes. You've met people that blow your mind. You never know. Bro, the guy's like 70 years old and he still looks amazing, dude. That's 70. He's fucking old now, dude. He's like like 50s, 60s. 50s or 60s. He's in his 50s. Somewhere in there. He's 53. Yeah. He's not old. He's old as fuck. He's dinosaur. But anyway, he looks amazing. Could you please pull up his Instagram? The most, his most recent photos that he's got. He just did like some shoot or something like that. And he, he, bro. Look, here's the deal. He popped up in my feed. Maybe, maybe you're right. Maybe not. Maybe you're right. But boy, genetics can be crazy. Jack LaLaine in his 70s. Bro, he, okay. Yeah. He has all of it. He has the genetics. He has the work ethic and he has the anabolic. Like it's not, my point is not to take that away. His physique is amazing. Even for somebody who takes all the steroids in the world. I know, but dude, I don't know. Okay. Do you know what Ronnie Coleman looked like before he took anabolic steroids? I do. Not like this guy. Oh. What page are you on? It's not, it's not his, it's not his main Instagram, is it? Bro. Yeah. That's his main one. Bro, Ronnie Coleman. Oh, I'm blocked from that one. It's his other, it's his training. I wonder why. Yeah. I don't know why he blocked me. That's part of why I'm talking shit right now because I never did anything or said anything about him ever or ever commented on stuff. And he, I've been blocked. Yeah. Well, fuck him. Cause he blocked, he blocked me and I never said any shit about Michael. You must have. No, I didn't. I never, when have I ever talked about him? Or, or maybe you were in a bad mood and I've never, no, no, not at all. Well, so Ronnie Coleman would get top 15 in the Olympics when he was natural. Okay. You could pull up pictures of Ronnie Coleman. Top 15 natural and he was bigger than him for sure. Massive. So I don't know, man. Genetics are crazy, dude. I don't know. So who knows? Any strongest fuck. It just doesn't make sense. When he was 19 years old, Michael Hearn was a powerlifting champion, judo champion, California judo champion. That's Ronnie Coleman natural right there. Pull him up. Right at the top. That's not Ronnie Coleman out there, is it? Yes. That's him as a teenager, bro. Wow. Natural. You know when he took anabolic steroids? Yeah. This whole story, he tells a true story. I mean, I know he's amazing. That was him natural. That's natural right there. Yeah, I still, I still. And then he got on gear and then he looked like, I mean, obviously Ronnie Coleman, nobody comes close. So you, you, you still believe there's a possibility that. I think there's a possibility because I've seen some. Okay. Give me a percentage possibility then. What do you think? Like one in a million? Like I'll give you that. I think he has the one in a million genetics. So I would say that the possibilities 50-50 is what I would say. Oh, wow. You think it's that close of a chance? Because he's not. I mean, he does look insane, dude. He looks crazy, but he's always looked like that. He's been, and he's got crazy strength for a size even. Like even for a size, he's Michael Hearn is hella strong. Yeah, I know. Hella strong. I mean, to me, it doesn't take any parents or what? Bro, have you seen his little boy? Yeah, his little boy. No, I haven't. You can tell he's got the, I mean, he's got the jeans, dude. Yeah, yeah, his little boy already looks like, just looks like he's going to be super muscular. I mean, it's really wild how crazy these genetics can go. What's his name? Who is that football player? I don't believe it. I mean, he came up. Herschel Walker. Herschel Walker. Here's your Herschel Walker at 50-something years old. Jack. I mean, just insane. Doesn't, it looks better than I could ever look in his 50s. Bo Jackson. I mean, Bo Jackson. Back in the day. Yeah, but I feel like, I mean, the Ronnie Coleman, that Ronnie Coleman picture blows my mind because I haven't seen that one before. I've seen Ronnie Coleman before. And I don't, I don't know. I would question if that's one of his ones before steroids. It is. Is it? Yeah. That picture, that actual picture. Yeah, it's the one that Doug pulled up. Because I've seen. Because you could look at him post and pre-steroids and there's a difference for sure. Well, yeah, no, of course. I mean, he's a, he's a. You know who else was crazy looking before they took your? Kai Green. Kai Green used to compete naturally and he looked crazy and was muscular. Now he'd obviously look totally different afterwards, but he looked. You're also missing one other fact too. The guy is 53 years old too. I mean, there's, there's another part that is like, well, that was Ronnie Coleman look right now. Well, that's, you heard himself, bro. That's messed up. Brutal. He messed his spine up. You know, okay, so Jacqueline at 70. And now Jacqueline, no one's going to argue he took steroids, okay? Jacqueline at 70 years old for his birthday, pulled rowboats full of 70, total 70 people and swam from shore to Alcatraz, pulling with his teeth and his hand and his feet were cuffed. Legend dude, he was a legend. And that's recorded. When he was 50, I think he was 50, he set the world record and pull up some push-ups that took a decade. So you say 50-50. Justin, were you out on it? I know you're not like a steroid expert guy. Yeah, I mean, me not being like in your guy's world, I just look at him as a specimen. Like there's gotta be some, some enhancements to that though. I don't know. I just can't, it's hard for me to see somebody that like super genetically gifted. I mean, obviously like Ronnie Coleman, that looked ridiculous to me. So I would give it like a, I'd say like more in the 80, 20 side. 80% he's probably on something. Yeah, you're the only one in advanced age. So what would you say? Well, I mean, that should, to him he should be as a competent, right? Being somebody who knows what it's like to work out at that age. Yeah, he's a different animal. I couldn't answer that. I wonder, has he done drug test? He's done drug test in the past when he competed, but has he, has anybody? You know what's so funny about that? There was like, I'm on anabox and I could time my drug test to make people think that I'm not on steroids. That's true. Like, that's, by the way, that is like the most, you know, you know, who does that? What's the other? I mean, Lance Armstrong. What's the guy that we had on our show that? Every drug test. What's the name? What's the guy on our show that we had a long time ago? Romano? No, no, no. Who doesn't like us anymore? Oh, it doesn't like us. Yeah, remember we did the three? Joe Donnelly? Yes, thank you. Joe Donnelly did that, right? You lied about being an animal. That guy is like taking all kinds of stuff. And then all you had to do is time your cycle. I mean, I take my shot once a week. If I were just to prolong my shot by 10 days, I would look like I have terrible testosterone because it goes all the way back down. So yeah, all athletes, I mean, you know, in the football world, they do that all the time. You know, it's like they time it out. So they, they miss their... They do your drug test. Well, you know steroids, but there's a lot of other stuff we see here. Nothing to do with muscle building. But what else are you taking, dude? Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know, man, it's crazy. Well, speaking of legends, where I did you guys see that Michael Jordan, I guess hasn't been able to sell his like amazing mansion. Bro, he's been trying to sell that for since 2012. Yeah. Since 2012, nobody will buy it. How much? Well, I think it's what like, what'd they do? It's some very specific number that adds up to 23, but it's like 12 million. No, you're right. It's a very specific number. It's either 23 million for his number or it has a significant... No, it adds up to it. So it's on the market for 14.9 million. Sorry, 14.9. Yeah, but it might have dropped a bunch of times. Originally it was 29 million. 29. Yeah. So no 23. So here's the thing though. So the whole thing, and I've actually, I've been there. Like I used to... Oh, you've seen it? Yeah, cause it's in Deerfield area and I used to go to school there. So we drive Chicago. We drive through there all the time in this suburb and it huge gates like 23 big, you know, bold. And then there's like where the security guys are like with this whole like setup for them. Like this compounds like enormous and you can't even really see it unless you're like flying above it. But the thing is it's such, it's so specific to Michael Jordan. Like I think that's the problem. So I watched the whole YouTube thing on it. It's too custom. And someone broke it all down and that's exactly what they said was just like, you need to be a... First of all, you need to be close to it. Well, you don't have to be a billionaire but you need to be a hundred millionaire to even afford the house. And like an insane fan of Michael Jordan. Not just like a regular fan because the whole thing is custom to him. Yeah. So it's like, you got to want like, you know... He's throwing in his own like every single shoe. Yeah, yeah. If you buy it, you get every shoe. You get all the shoe and it's like, you know, I mean, it's novelty and it's cool but like it's, if you want to live in a house and pay that much money, like you're not going to want it to be somebody else's vision and dream. No, unless you're a, unless you're filthy rich and a die hard fan. And it's like for you to be like, it would be like a collector's thing. Yeah. It's not even like you want to live in it. And then even then you collect it. Nobody wants to buy it for me, so you fuck. Wasn't there a house in California that was like one of the most expensive? Yeah, that where record was. It was... A hundred million or something, a hundred and fifty million? Yeah. Doug, you look it up. But the most expensive house sold. So I, you know, I just, you know, it just came out as the, you know, the show I always let Max watch with me, the sunset selling, sunset, right? Katrina and I, Max and I always get caught watching it. They have a new one out. It's, it's, so the Oppenheimer group or whatever their name of the guy, the two, the two twins. Oh, I watched this like. So now they've moved down to, So they have Orange County now. Orange County, yeah. Yeah. So the Orange County one and the very first episode, the first house they tour is a hundred million dollar house on the coastline. I saw it. And it was sick. Now what's the most expensive crazy house you guys have ever walked through? Walked through? Yeah. Tony Robbins. Oh, yeah. Tony Robbins. Yeah. What was his health value that? Boy, I don't recall. 60 million, maybe. I mean, I think it's more than that because he, remember he built the bunker, which is as expensive or more, it's more expensive than the actual house. So my dad, so that had to be the most expensive. My dad worked on a house with the crew. Cause at one point he developed a name for himself with the stonework that he did. And they worked on a house in Atherton that this was back in, I want to say 2000, early 2000s. So the house was 50 million then. So who knows what it's worth now. But I walked through that house and it was, it wasn't that it was so big that was crazy about it. It was that every room, so the doors that went to the bedroom were taken from a like a 10th century church in Italy or something like that. And then there was this one room where the walls and the ceiling was made of wood hard and it was hand carved. So it was like that. The room you walked into was ridiculous, the stuff that they had in it. It was insane. I feel uncomfortable living in a house like that. I mean, yeah. I mean, Hearst Castle, that'd be cheaters way to say that. But also like I was doing a job and I think I had brought this up before for Clint Eastwood's house. And so it was, and it was legit huge, like probably in the 10 million kind of range there. I think it was near Pebble Beach kind of area. But it was, and I felt like so uncomfortable because you got to put like things over your shoes. Like of course he wasn't there. You know, it was just like somebody else that was kind of managing it for him. But I just kept looking for him. There was a shower that was in this house that was the size of a bedroom and it was a shower. And the water would come through the stone in the roof. So you turn it on the ceiling. So you turn it on and you're like, you know, like this is a shower. I've been in a lot of 10 to $15 million range houses, but I'd say Tony Robbins has to be north of 50 million. Now. Yeah. I think he paid like mid-20s for it, but then he improved it. Yeah. Then he did the whole underneath. Well, it looked awesome, but it was just like was kind of somewhat normal. But then there was that underground that just was like, what? Yeah, that had to have been the most epic house that I'd ever. Is the only way to get to the, no, there was a door, never mind. It wasn't just the slide. Oh, the bed back door. There was a house over on top of it. The guest house. I went to one that was a $15 million house and this was like 10, well, maybe 15 years ago in actually Capitola. It was right on the yard, was the cliff to the ocean, had an elevator in it. And it was 15 million, 15 years ago. So that's probably a $30 million plus house now. So my dad also worked on Steve Wozniak's house, but this was in the mid 90s. Worked on Steve Wozniak's house. And I guess he had a go cart track in the backyard. And then they had these caves that were built in the backyard for the kids to go through and find treasure and stuff like that. This was in the mid 90s. I remember my dad coming home. Were you guys into like MTV Cribs in the rich and real lifestyles of rich and famous? I watched it, but yeah. I watched every episode. Of course you did. So I was like, that probably did too. Oh, you didn't, huh? No, I didn't. I'm so disappointed. I never watched MTV. Never did. Well, lifestyles rich and famous? Maybe seen one or two episodes. Wow, really? Yeah. That shocks me actually. Did you read Great Poupon too? Remember those commercials? I do. Those commercials were great. I know. Those were great commercials. It's just mustard. Everybody clung down. You know what's really wild about that? So you do the math. Did you look up, you didn't look up the most expensive household in California. What was it? Yeah, I did look it up. I think it sold for like 170 million or so. 170 million. Now, trip on this. Yeah, what are the property taxes? So I figured that out for me. I already did. What is it? So that's 1.7 million a year. So almost, so 1.7 million a year. It's the taxes. So almost $200,000 a month, even when your house is paid off. So say you're rich enough to go drop 170 million, you have no mortgage payment. You are still paying $170,000 to $200,000 a month to have that property. For the, so somebody gives it to you, you're bankrupt. Here's a free house. Oh, shit. We got to sell it. I'm going bankrupt already. That is crazy to me. That wild. Speaking of craziness with taxes and stuff, do you guys see that, do you see the message that California sent out over Labor Day? Oh my God, for the cars. Dude. Yeah, dude. This hurts my brain so, so much. Like I, The first they sent out, first they signed something that said no electric, sorry, no gasoline vehicles can be sold after 2035 in California. Yeah. Okay. By the way, this is classic bull crap, virtue signaling politician crap. This sums up like everything California's about. Because what they do is they'll pass something that's not going to touch them. It's for the next person to worry about, but it looks good, right? No, we're going to be, we're serious about the climate, whatever. Literally two days later, California sends out a big warning to everybody. Hey. Please don't charge your cars. Find a way, you guys. Please don't charge your cars over Labor Day because we're going to have blackouts because our power grid can't support it. I'm like, come on, dude. This is like comedy. But you need to get an electric vehicle because that's what we have. What are we going to do if that's the deal in 2035? I see a side hustle happening right here. Horses? No. Driving around in a diesel power generator with the hauling that so you can charge people's electric cars up all over the place. Big old diesel monster truck bus. Yeah, just pick it up. Pour your gasoline in there. Oh, you still want to go to work? Come with me. You know what I feel like's going to happen? They're going to push this so hard and then people are not going to be able to charge their cars because our power grid in California can't support our air conditioning let alone charging our cars. They're not going to do what's needed to build the power grid. It's so asinine. So then they're going to make everybody ride by it. Why is that right now? Because typically that's like July. So that's normally when the... There's a heat wave going on right now. Oh, there is? Yeah. Oh, this weekend supposed to be record temperatures. So that's why it is. Okay, so that's why because it's going to be record heat. Well, because I just got this message too. I guess our football game is like went from like two o'clock up to like 1030. Oh, because of the heat. Because of the heat. Oh, wow. I didn't know we have a heat wave coming like that right now. Did you know that Doug? Yeah, I did. I think it's supposed to start today, actually. Oh, interesting. Justin, did you play football? I know you played football in the heat. Did you ever play in the snow? Yeah. Yeah. Can I tell you something? I don't watch lots of football, but when I used to watch, I would watch what was it called NFL films? Yeah. When they show them playing the football. Oh yeah. You watch like Green Bay versus the Bears. Yeah, dude. And they're breathing through their masks. Yeah. War. New York and like dude. Looks like war. It is. It has a totally different feel. And I actually, it's one of those things like you think it's going to be miserable. And it is if you're on the sidelines. Let's be honest. If you're on the sidelines, you're going to freeze your ass off and like hate life. But if you're in the game. Blast. It's just like, I mean, because you're moving around, you're warm. I'd wear like a specific kind of like undershirt that would keep the heat in. But when you tackle somebody and you get like a patch of snow and you just toboggan their ass for like 10, 15 yards. And you're just like, yeah. You're still sliding, I got you. You're talking shit as you're like sliding the whole time. I imagine it's got to be the closest thing to when you were a kid and you played like mud football. I mean, did you? I love that as a kid when playing mud football because that's a lost art. I mean, it levels the playing field athletically. So I mean, when you're a, you know, you run super, super fast. You can't cut. Yeah. So it's like everybody's kind of on the same level. And so it's, you know, everybody moves about the same speed. It's just football in the mud. Yeah. Yeah. We would go out and we used to get super excited when it get really like a really big storm. And then the like, if we go find a field that is just mostly mud and you go play football. And like, when you tackle people, it's like. You call your friends parents, you know, you're slipping trying to get, you're trying to run, you're running in place. So you hit a sprinkler. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's terrible. No, mud football was a blast as a kid. Wow, that's a good time. Anyway. So I've been getting these Viori slack type pants. What are they called again? The Meta? The Meta pants. You know how many times people have asked me where I get these? Like crazy. People keep asking me. In person? In person. Oh yeah. No, because they look like like. You look handsome. I know, I know. Because they look like normal, like nice looking slacks. Slacks. But look how stretchy they are. Well, people that have known you for 20 plus years probably think right now you're going through a time in your life where you're the best dress you've ever been. Wow, that's very nice of you to say. Although, I feel like it's backhanded a little bit. Hold on a second. Why? Yeah. Hold on a second. Let me back that compliment. Let me back up. I miss the alien shirts. I forget the name of these that I'm wearing right now but I really like these ones. I only have one pair. I need to get another pair of these ones. They're cuffed at the bottom, which they don't have a lot of them that are cuffed like that. You like cuffed. I do. Why? Why you said I'll cut this ending? It's the style down there. Yeah. No, no. But why do you, because these aren't cuffed, like there's little pants on our cuff. Why do you like cuffed so much besides the style? Well, I'm a shoe guy. And so like one of the things I didn't like about the. You don't want to cover the shoe. Yeah. The era when we were when, you know, the big, you know, boot cut bottoms or whatever, you know, when we went through that phase for whatever it was like. You want to show you don't have cankles like me. Is that what it was? Yeah. Just, it has to get boot cut just to fit his ankle. Yeah, just to like, you know, go all the way down. Yeah. Don't show me that. You don't have cankles. Your ankles are okay. You just got the calf, bro. Don't let, I don't tell you. I have super small ankles. Yeah, you do. I can almost fit my hand around my ankle. Dude. How close can you get? Ankle to lock the shit out of you. Mine? Oh, so it's easier with a small, on a smaller ankle than it would be on a. You get like the one hand? Well, I just feel like it would break. Like somebody can touch it. I'm sorry. I don't know. Are your joints smaller than mine? Oh, for sure. Dude, come on. Can you, can you get all? Can you get your? Well, kind of. But maybe, huh? Maybe you're a little smaller than mine. I know. Are you, can you get your ring finger there? I mean, I have, I mean, our hands are probably the same size. So maybe. That's your middle finger. Can you get your ring finger? Oh, my ring. No. Yeah. See, I can get my ring finger. No. Like really get it. Speaking of fingers, we talked about this on the podcast. You know if your ring finger. Yeah. Love this. Especially when I'm in transit. Yeah. So, you know, if your ring finger is a lot longer than your pointer finger, that means you exposed a lot of testosterone in the womb. I've talked about that before. That keeps getting backed up by studies. Isn't that crazy? So your ring. Oh, don't try and shorten your ring finger. Just as all shit. Dude. No. Really this, the ratio of your ring finger to index finger can predict testosterone. That's not one of those urban legends. No, it's real. Is that, I mean, isn't that one too? No, you got it. No, the distance from there to there, they say. No, that's not, that's not. That's not an urban legend. I don't think so. Yeah. I mean, I've seen you in the locker room so I don't think so. Wow. Sorry. Wow, Doug. I have to make a quick apology here. Okay. So little self-realization. Sometimes you have these or whatever. I told a story the other day of the guy that I kind of punked on the machine because he was sitting there texting for 10 minutes. No, no, did you see him? I didn't, but I'm going to apologize when I do because I thought about it. I thought about it. You ever tell a story and as it's coming in your mouth, you're like, man, I sound like an asshole. Okay, that was me. So as I'm telling the story and laughing about it, I'm like, man, I kind of feel like a dick because obviously this guy, he's all masked up, gloves on. He's scared, right? He's scared of people being around him. But he's got the courage to go to the gym. He's in there working out. He's taking forever between sets. Who knows why? He looks like he was reading or whatever, fine. And here comes this big angry, hopped up on pre-workout guy. He's like, let me jump in. And he says, no, probably because he doesn't want germs. And I'm like, and I make him feel stupid and he gets up and walks away. I feel bad about it now. That's so woke up sweet. I feel bad. Come on, shut up. I feel like a jerk here. I'm supposed to represent, you know. Well, I was thinking more along the lines that when you were telling the story, what made you feel that way is you started to piece together the things you were saying about yourself. I was already irritated. I was just like, I mean, to me, that would be like the self-awareness part would have been like less about the dude. It was more like, well, I guess I was kind of on edge already. You know what it is? I'm working with someone right now on a weekly basis to just try to become a better person, right? And one thing that I'm realizing is I'm just generally an anxious person. I just generally tend to have this level of anxiety, energy that's kind of high. So when you throw like time constraints and caffeine on top of it, plus the fact that I might, you know, workouts to me are slightly... How often are you working with this person? Once a week. Oh, once a week? I would love to hear like cool breakthroughs that you get or you hear. I mean, that's... That's one of them. I'm just generally an anxious person. Oh, really? Yeah, I just have this general level of... Now, how did you guys piece that together? Well, I kind of pieced it together myself, but talking with her over and over again, I'm becoming more self-aware of my physical states. So, okay, so long story short, I don't feel things in my body. And what I mean by that is I'm very cognitive, but I don't feel feelings in my body. So you guys have commented on how when... No matter what's going on in my life, we turn on the cameras and I can turn on, you know, boom, podcast, intro, do the thing, whatever. And I've developed this, whatever you want to call it, this ability since I was a kid for a variety of different reasons I don't necessarily want to go into. But so what happens, I'm numb. I don't feel here. I can think, oh, I'm sad. Oh, this is hard. But the only feelings I feel are happy, like happy, love, angry. And that's it. Sadness, I can... And there's been moments in my life where I've wanted to cry. Like there's something really sad going on. I can't, I can't, just doesn't happen. But you like, my kids do something loving to me, I can get emotional. So there's only certain emotions that I physically feel. So that's a breakthrough. Now, what is her take on that? Is she say it's really important that we get in touch with all the different emotions? Yes, that's how you process a lot of them. And if you need to be able to process them through, otherwise they can build up and cause problems or other people can't connect to you. Because lots of people read you based off of your body language and what you're feeling, not just your words. I'm really good with my words. I can explain, I'm feeling this particular way. But if I want to connect with my kids, for example, better, they need to be able to see and feel my emotion, aside from just anger, love and happiness, like sad, distress, vulnerability. So which one of the emotions do you feel that you struggle the most with connecting to? Oh, boy, sad for sure. Oh, sad. Yeah, I don't feel, I just don't feel it physically. So, especially when it's really bad. And then any exercises that she's given you or does she tell you how to get in touch with being sad? Like does she force you to like, let's go through something that was sad and traumatic in your life? Well, I'm going to start doing something called EMDR, which is going to help with that. Are you guys familiar with that? Like a new dance? Yeah, it's a new dance that the kids are doing. No, it's actually... Exactly, what would you buy it? No, I don't know, it's not EDM. That's very close though. There's this, so I'm not super familiar with it, but what it does is it allows the parts of the brain that develop these patterns that become second nature. It allows you to move that processing to other parts of your brain so you can kind of rewire. Now, I'm not an expert on this and I don't know a whole ton, so I'm probably mischaracterizing it, but I'm going to probably try some of that, but really step one was just being aware of that and then trying to kind of feel, you know, be aware, like how does that feel when you're sad? Is this why I got so many DMs yesterday? Oh, yeah. Oh my God, I'm going to burst dude. Crying dude, emojis. Oh, see, like Doug, pull it up. What does it say there, Doug, about you? It's called eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. That's the EMDR. Yeah, so you're going to take a supplement that's supposed to help you? No, why do you think it's a supplement? Oh, I thought you said that's what I thought you said you were taking. No, no, no, no. It's like you, it's like... It's a method. I haven't done it yet, but there's different ways of doing it, like where you'll hold these two handles that buzz and then you'll go through, I don't know, a memory or something and then the buzzing brings processing of the brain to a certain place. I have, I need to remove... Oh, I can't wait to hear it. Yeah, please share with us. Yeah. Yeah, I will. I start crying on the podcast. Yeah, no. Oh, crap. You know, there was a point in my life where I actually wanted to be like a therapist. Of course. Yeah, I totally wanted to be like that. I can see that. You know, people who have, who've had to process the most challenging trauma and stuff typically like to go in that space? Yeah. Just like fitness people with body image issues, right? Yeah. I was super intrigued by it. And I still am today. I mean, I feel like there's so much to learn and I absolutely think that self-awareness has to be one of the single most powerful things that you can develop. I mean, that carries over to all aspects of your life. You want to be a better father. You want to be a better husband. You want to be a better co-worker. You want to be more successful. Like developing self-awareness has to be at the top. Agreed. Of things that you don't know. Because what it is is it's not just, it's not what you know that you need to work on. It's what you don't even know that you don't know. That's right. Yeah. That's the self-awareness part. Yes. And then you have these transformative because you wouldn't have thought of it yourself. You just don't know that you don't know. And then when it comes to you're like, holy shit, I'm like that. I do that. Oh, God. And everything starts to make sense. And then you work on it. You process it and you become a better person. But this woman knows how to motivate me. I'll tell you. She really knows. Oh, really? Yeah, because otherwise I feel like it's a superpower. Like, yeah, cool. I don't feel sad in my body. So nowhere, you know? That's how I get through it. You know, whatever. And she's just like, it'll make you connect. It'll make your kids connect with you more. And I'm like, oh, well, you know what to say. Yeah. Don't you? Okay, fine. Yeah, but to your point though, many times the things that are the deepest issues like that become superpowers. Yeah. You've learned to adapt and overcome. Well, that's what they are. They're adaptations. Yeah. But they can become maladaptations because then you apply them to everything, you know? But it also is what makes it very difficult for a lot of people to want to dig into it. Of course. Because it's like, oh, that's what made me successful. Why would I want to stop doing that? Yes. You know what I'm saying? Or why would I want to give that trade up? And so it's hard for someone else to come in and tell you like, oh, you should really work on that. Or you're afraid. What is going to be on the other end of that? Who am I going to be? What's going to happen? Right, right. Like I said, she knows how to motivate. Do you see her on same day, same week? So what day do you see her? So I know when to ask. Huh? Because I know I'm going to have to pull it out of you all the time. No, no, no. I'll tell you off the podcast. No, I want to know on the podcast. Your audience is going to want to know, too. I don't want to get messages and shit from people. You mean like the messages? You mean like the messages Justin and I got all day yesterday? Like those messages? I don't want to see what your dudes crying. I did a story where I took a picture of Justin. And I said, he's having trouble feeling his feelings. Can you please send the pictures? Like men crying stuff. So you got a bunch. Did you get DMs, too, Doug? A couple. Yeah, I got a bunch. I got a ton. I got some funny. I got ones that were people that had never even messaged me before, but messaged me. Yeah, me too. But messaged me because of that. That's such a good time. I love it. No, you got to look. Look, here's the deal. I think self-awareness is important. And you only grow from being uncomfortable. So the reason why we stay away from like trying to become more self-aware is because it's uncomfortable as shit. It's really uncomfortable. But how else are you going to grow? You don't grow otherwise. Yeah. Otherwise you just stay where you're at. And if you want to be a better person, like, you know, you got to seek that shit out. So that's all. You got to examine all areas. It ain't easy. I'll tell you that much. But nothing drives me like my kids, man. I'll tell you, just to be a better dad and, you know, a better partner, of course. Yeah. You know, that'll drive the shit. I mean, yeah. Doug, what were our commercials today? Oh, we have Caldera. Actually, I was going to ask you about your skin since you fasted. Because you know how you notice changes in your psoriasis when you fast? Yeah. You know what? I actually was not happy with that. It didn't do anything. I didn't see as much of an improvement as I thought. I definitely, like, I did not see it get any worse, for sure. But I actually was kind of excited to see, because I hadn't done 72 hours before. And I thought, oh, I wonder if my skin's going to, like, really clear up. It's got nothing in my system. And it really didn't. Not like I would have anticipated. That was really hoping for that. You look, and I'm not saying this just because you gave me that weird compliment earlier. You look healthier than you've done in a long time. So I think it's coming to that, that work out that you're doing, and you're doing your nutrition. I mean, I do feel, I mean, those are all true. So, like, my diet is more dialed right now and today or even in the last month than it has been in the previous couple of years. So I'm the most dialed in. I've been in a long time. I'm back to being pretty damn consistent, training-wise. I mean, really consistent. Is that why I saw four plates on the bar out there? I did, although I did strain my hands. Oh, come on, Adam. I told you. Just a minor strain, and I didn't work through it. Like, I was doing it. I hadn't, you know. I told you, dude. I knew you had the pre-workout. You're getting all hyper on the podcast. It was just 405, dude. I just, I thought I would be fine. Yeah, but you haven't done that a long time. And I was working triples. So I wasn't even going, like, to failure on it at all. And it was the second or the third time I did it in just a little, you know, little twinge in my... Minor. Yeah, real minor. Okay. Real minor. Like, it's nagging today, but I could still go do it. I'm still good. And I put it down to that. I'm like, okay. I knew it because I saw you. You took pre-workout. You were all hyper on the podcast. You were all excited about your workouts. You're looking good. You know what? I heard the music. This guy is going to go too hard. You know what? Even bigger asshole move. I didn't even like really prime and warm up. Oh, what a terrible, terrible training. I mean, it just like... You know what? Justin, we need to start training. I don't know. You can't do it. Sometimes I feel like we have no business talking about fitness on this podcast. I know. I'm going to take my own goddamn advice. You know what I'm saying? So tell me about the top like four or five things you've done for psoriasis because every time you talk about it, we get DMs. There's a lot of people who struggle with... Top four or five. Okay. So the top things that I've done, vitamin D was a big thing for me. Obviously avoiding the foods that like, I definitely think that gluten and dairy tend to aggravate it. Okay. Okay. So that's first, right? Avoiding that. Vitamin D slash sunshine, sunshine, sunshine, sunshine. Or if I don't get that, then the Juve light. So I use the Juve light a lot for that. And then the caldera serum. So the serum is now replaced. So I used to use the cortisol creams. Oh, like the steroids? Yeah. Oh, wow. The creams that they give you, that's like 1%, something steroid cream or whatever. And I quit using that and I just used the serum now. And so that has been a big one for me. And I think that I would notice with the steroid creams, they tamp it down faster. Like I see a response like the next day, I can tell it's cleared up more. The serum, I don't see like this drastic way, but it keeps it, it keeps it down and it keeps it from getting really dry like that. And I just got to drop like one little, let those drop the serum. And so the oil spreads so well. So like one little drop on that and it'll, it's really, really good. Yeah. But I use the serum for that like directly on my psoriasis and because I have it on my head and I have it on my legs really bad. And then I use their, the cream, I don't know what the cream is called. What's the, what is the, the one in the little. Is it the base layer? Yes. Yes. Yes. I use the base layer the most. Really? Yes. So we're, we're Jessica and I are serum all the way. So I was originally, because that's what got introduced to me first, but the base layer is the business. Yeah. I mean, I like, when I wash my, do you use that Doug? Yeah, I love it. Yeah. I love it too. That's my favorite product. So that's the daytime in the wet serums at night or you guys do both? I don't, okay. So I know, and we talked about it before like, I don't care what the, it's supposed to be there. Yeah. The thing is every, every morning when I get out of the shower, because I have the, the other stuff I got to keep in the shower. So I wash my face with the, I'm so bad, right? I'm selling their product. Clean slate. Thank you. Thank you Doug. So, so sorry. You just changed the chairs. Yeah. So I, so I use the, the clean slate in my shower every, every, every morning and night I use it and I'll wash my face. And then when I, when I get done in my dry off, then I use the base layer. Okay. That's how I put on. And then again, the serum, you put on my psoriasis and then every once in a while you'll see me. You put that on. I put on my podcast. Yeah. I put it up before we podcast sometimes on my face. And then at night I do the base layer again after I shower at night. I do it again. I never used anything on my face. Now I use it regularly. I never, never put nothing. I have naturally oily skin. I mean, I had never in before, before Caldera, I had never had experienced anything that like, I can see a difference immediately. Yeah. Like I can literally look, put it on. Sperma died for me. No. Justin, you spermating? Yeah. I know all the stuff is so foreign to you over there guy. Justin. You even own a lotion bottle? Yeah. Do you? No. Quick answer? No. Justin. Wow, your hand is so soft. No, the only one is like, it's my heels, dude. Like I like every now and then like, it's so bad that they crack and I'm like, fuck, this hurts. I got to do something and I intervene with like, do the serum or whatever the hell. Why are you such an angry old man already? I swear to God. I swear to God. I don't know. 100% if a kid drives by your house. Yeah. Going too fast. Get off my yard. Yes. As he's drinking out of his hose. Get off my yard. In my, whatever you call that. Rope. Yeah. Do you have a rope? Yeah, I got a rope. I'm a big rope guy too. I got a big, I got a big ass rope. I look like a, I look like a king from Lord of the Force. I do too. But it's, it gets so hot so fast. I have one just like that. And it is the most comfortable thing ever, but it's almost too warm. Oh, I get hot. Katrina ends up, because she's cold all the time. So she ends up wearing it more than I wear it because it's like, but it's great though. If I want to go sit on my balcony when it's like really cold at night and just wearing that thing, it's like really nice for that. But in the house, it almost gets too, I ought to take it up to the trucking house. Boxers out there. Just outside your boxers. Yeah, dude. Yeah. The hearts? Yep. Check this out. There's a company we work with called mass enzymes that makes digestive enzymes for athletes and people who eat high protein diets, low carb diets, basically people interested in performance, fitness and health. Did you know that you lose enzymes as you age? This can affect digestion and nutrient assimilation. Okay. But taking digestive enzymes, the right ones can help you absorb and utilize and break down proteins, fats and carbohydrates. This company is amazing. People love their product. Go check them out. Go to masszymes.com. That's M-A-S-S-Z-Y-M-E-S.com forward slash mind pump. And then use the code mindpump10 for 10% off any order. All right. Here comes the rest of the show. First question is from Cole Cosnick. Is it true that your body can only absorb 30 grams of protein in a sitting? Yeah. You know what I picture? Whenever somebody asks this question, like a caveman, you know, he hunted, he killed the thing and eats the stop. Yeah. We cannot eat no more. Just leg. Just leg. Yeah. You know, this is a good example of what I said earlier in the podcast about the supplement, side of the industry, how information gets filtered through it. This is a myth, and it was promoted largely because it's putting more than 30 grams of protein in a protein bar and makes them taste disgusting. A scoop of protein powder is about 30 grams. And I'm going to fit more protein in a scoop. And so they came up with this lie and it's not true. You can definitely absorb more than 30 grams of protein in a sitting. What determines what you can absorb or not or whatever is your digestion. So if you eat more than 30 grams, you find digestive issues. Well, now that being said, you know, let's say when you eat, you know, 90 grams of protein in one sitting, it messes with your digestion. Is some of that not getting absorbed? Like, let's say if someone... I mean, if you got real bad diarrhea, maybe. That's what I mean. Let's say that happens. I mean, that's happened to me before where I eat something that is too much like dairy and too much protein all in one shot. And I'm like, I'm in the restroom right afterwards. So now I know, you know, my body is still getting the calories because, I mean, otherwise you would never put on any body fat. You could eat as much, overeat as much protein as possible. Well, I mean, in extreme cases when people have extreme digestive issues, they do have trouble gaining weight because everything they eat, it goes right through them. But I mean, that's an extreme case. If you eat 90 grams of protein and you digest the fine, you're absorbing all 90 grams. It doesn't happen instantly. It's got to get broken down, go through the system, and you will absorb all that. I routinely eat 70 to 80 grams of protein at a meal. My dinner typically is around that. Yeah, but I think the more important point to make is what I was just asking about that. So you're fine. You don't have any... Yes. You're not... But what if you're somebody who does eat north of 40, 50 grams of protein or 30 in this case is what they're asking. You eat 35 or 40, and every time you do that, you notice you have to rush to the bathroom. Yeah, I mean, then you just... That's always number one, right? Is your health. So that should determine... That's actually number two. Yeah, thank you. Boom, nice. That would determine kind of what you should and shouldn't eat more than anything else. But all things being equal, this is a total myth. You absorb all the protein that you eat, all things being equal, whether it's at once or broken up. There can be arguments as to why you might want to break up protein servings. It could help maybe with satiety, maybe with behaviors. There might be a performance benefit to eating protein every four hours or so. But it's a small benefit, but this may be the case for high-level athletes. Or if you're eating 250 grams of protein a day, well, you're going to probably want to eat five or six servings of protein at 50 grams or so. But this is a total myth, and it was literally put out because if you buy a protein powder, a protein bar, I should say, 30 grams is about to cut off. More than that, it's going to taste gross. It's going to be big, it's going to be heavy. Yeah, you know that's where it came from. Yeah, because it's... I mean, they had to have a specific number. And to standardize that, it came from the supplement industry. It did. So it's like... There wasn't like this crazy study where they all of a sudden had this epiphany that 30 grams was the number that you could only absorb. There's so many other individual variances to consider. Now, do you think there is a sweet spot for the general population of... Because you got to think that there's a tipping point for almost everybody. Of course. Yeah, at one point, it's going to mess your digestion up. I mean, if you try and sit down and eat a... There's just too much anything. Right, exactly. I feel like you could train yourself too, though, in terms of introducing more protein meals that are a little bit higher in protein gradually. I'm sure you can even absorb more at that point. So it's like... I noticed a type of protein is what matters for me more than anything else. I could eat a two-pound steak and be fine. No problem. But if I were to have like two... If I were to put four scoops of whey protein in a shake, that I would 100%... That's probably the dairy. I would 100% be on the toilet right away after that. So I guess, for me, for trying to answer this question to someone, yes, this is largely a myth and made up from the supplement industry, but also the most important thing for you to pay attention, forget the grams of protein, but pay attention to when you push certain types of proteins to certain levels, do you find yourself with diarrhea on the toilet right afterwards, and then that's your indicator that you probably should scale back on that or pair it with something else. Or switch your protein. Or gas or flatulence that's really bad or bloating or constipation. Like these are all signs that you need to change something in your diet because it's affecting your digestive poorly, digestion poorly, and when your digestion's off, everything's off. People need to understand this. Inflammation is up, your hormones will get affected negatively, so it's a big deal. Digestive enzymes, by the way, can help quite a bit. I was just going to ask you that. Yes, they can help quite a bit. So, and really, digestive enzymes become more valuable. Well, when people have gut issues, digestive enzymes are like... Life saves. They're money, right? But if you're a high-level athlete, you're eating a very high protein diet. I weigh 200 and right now about 205 pounds. If I were to eat 205 grams of protein, which I try to hit most of the time, but usually I fall right around 170 or so. But if I eat over 200, it can get a little high for me, and digestive enzymes make a big difference for me. They help me break it down, and people will find this. That's the mass enzymes, right? Yeah, that's the company we work with. That's the best. So, when do you take that, like right before your meal? Right with the meal. Yeah, two capsules, right with the meal, and then I'm set. That's from Gregor22. What are your thoughts on tri-release proteins? Are they a gimmick, or do they have legit benefits? What the hell is that? Please explain. Okay, so protein powder... I love when people ask questions about stuff I have no idea about. I haven't heard this one yet. No, no. So when I explain it to you guys, you guys are like, oh, I've heard that before. Okay, so when protein powders really became... That's one of the largest sellers in the supplement space. Small margins. Oh my God. Is it what I think it is? Where it's like the slow digesting protein. Correct. I just all combined. You hit the nail on the head. I'm casting waves. You gotta love the marking. You hit the nail on the head. So protein is a huge, if not the largest segment of the supplement industry. It's how you attract your customers, and you talk to people who own supplement companies will tell you, you don't make the money off your protein powder, but that's how you get your customers. Then you make the money on the other stuff with the larger margins. So it's a big market. How do you out-compete other protein powders? If I got way, you got way. Mine's isolate. Yours is isolate. Like, how do we compete? Well, then we start talking about things that don't make a difference. Well, mine absorbs faster. It breaks down faster. And you know that anabolic window pulse workout, which is really a myth. Well, since mine absorbs faster, it's better for you. And then another guy comes out and says, well, you know what I have? I have casein, which casein absorbs slower. Slow it down for nighttime. You take it before bed. So you got protein all night long while you're in bed, you know? And so, and then someone might be like, well, what about in the middle of your workout? What about a protein for that? So try release. It's just a gimmick. It's basically a blend of proteins. One's supposed to be fast release. One's supposed to be moderate release. One's supposed to be slow release to give you, I guess, the best protein, which is bullshit. If protein powders, what you want to look at is digestibility. That's number one, most important. Then look at essential amino acid content. High essential amino acid content makes a protein gram per gram more effective, okay? But besides all that, if your protein is really high, then a lot of this doesn't matter. Like if you take whey protein, you take plant protein, you take collagen protein, but you all need a super high protein diet. It doesn't matter. You're all getting all the amino acids that you need. It makes a difference when your protein intake is lower. But this whole fast release, slow release, whatever. No. It doesn't make any difference whatsoever. All things being equal, probably the best protein gram per gram is whey and egg and animal proteins are in that category. But whey and egg protein are some of the best. They're high in essential amino acids, high in branched amino acids. But again, if your protein intake is high, it doesn't matter. And then release, like how fast they release in the system, don't worry about that. What are they going to come up with next? I have no idea. The next question is from Kingsie31. I treat static stretching like trigger sessions a couple of times a day for the specific muscles I'm stretching. Is this a good or bad thing? This is a hack. By the way, this frequency hack that we do with exercise, you can apply to almost any physical adaptation. So like mobility, you could do three 45-minute mobility sessions a week, or you could do three five-minute sessions every day, spaced out. The frequent mobility sessions are going to get you there faster. It's just, and this is true for stretching too, for static stretching as well. This is such a hack that I sometimes wonder if I would have made the progress that I did on my ankle and hip mobility as much as I did if it wasn't for me teaching orange theory. Because you had to do it in every class? Yes. Because it became this ritual that anytime I would, so part of the class, there's these like two-minute and three-minute runs or whatever, it's like the class is very like, you know, bang, bang, bang, bang, move, move, move, and I'm coaching and talking. And then there's these moments where it's like, I set them off and I let them do something. And it's always like, you know, no longer than three minutes, normally somewhere between one and three minutes. And so, and at that time, I really don't have anything to do other than maybe check form. And if I have an advanced class or it's an easy movement, I don't have much to do. So I made it a habit that every time I had those one minute, three minute breaks in the class, every day, all day, I would just get down and do like a little combat stretch or get down and I would drive my knees forward over my toes. Like just, you know, staying kind of active and moving and just doing that. And I think that that is what progressed me so fast and so far with that. And I always wondered like, man, I wonder if I would have had the discipline to really make it that regular had I not had like a little ritual? Yeah, cause you're, what you're trying to get is CNS adaptation. You're trying to get your central, cause okay, what determines whether or not a muscle fires well or relaxed as well, right? Allows you to stretch it. It's your central nervous system. And your central nervous system responds really well to frequent practice. So this I learned about from Jessica with static stretching. So Jessica in her past life, she was married before her and I got married. So she obviously divorced. That's how we got married. But anyway, she was with a gentleman who worked for Cirque du Soleil. He was a performer and she was just a wife, you know, married to him. So she followed along. Eventually she worked for Cirque du Soleil as well. And she made friends with the people that did the silks. So the silks of those long fabric things that you climb and she was so fascinated with it. She was not an athlete. She was not athletic. All she did was running at this point. She did nothing else. And she said, I want to try this out. And she became obsessed with it. And she said, she goes, Sal, I would do static stretching five times a day, 10 minutes. Anytime I had a second, I'd get down on the floor and do static stretching. She went from not being able to touch her toes to, and I'm going to get a picture so we could put on this episode. She would do a hanging splits with the silks or bend herself backwards and became hyper flexible from this method right here of this frequent daily, you know, stretching. And she's like, if you want to get flexible, practice stretching throughout the day. You don't do like two one hour sessions. It's not nearly as effective. Yeah, I'm with you guys. However, the static stretching part I'm a little hung up on only because what's your desired outcome? Like what do you actually do? Because in terms of replacing that with mobility movements, that would be my preference and only because in terms of like prepping me for other movement and getting me access and strength in that range of motion, if you're trying to just access, you know, further ranges of motion and to be able to place your body in those positions, I think static stretching is amazing for that and also correcting, you know, posturally, you know, getting you in better alignment. But in terms of like where we're at now in terms of like differentiating static stretching with mobility with dynamic stretching. My preference is mobility. So I agree that mobility is superior. What I found was it was just easier to commit to the stack. It was like it wasn't. So all I would do is like literally just get down and sit in the position and just, you know, but you also you also throughout the week did mobility and connected. That's right. That's what she did because she also practice active with it. Yes. That's a difference. I'm trying to so she would get so she learned how to static stretch from the Russian performers in the Cirque. Yeah. And these were, I mean, they were hardcore and they were brutal. And she said you would get in a stretch and then they'd make you fire your quad and pull your leg up or push down against it or they grab your foot. More like P and F. Yes. And so, and she didn't know any better. She just did what they, what they taught her, what they told her. And so she got this incredible flight. And then of course she practiced the silks, which you have to be, you have to be active. Well, I mean, this person is combining it with our training programs, right? So they're, they're putting it to work. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Oh yeah. The only time this will be a bad thing is if you're hypermobile. I would not want someone hypermobile doing lots of stretching. I mean, I just, I mean, I, 100%, I think we're all on the same page with, with always promoting mobility, but it is definitely a lot easier to convince someone to get down and sit in a, in a 90-90 stretch or whatever like that while you're watching TV or talking or something like that, than that, like an actual mobility move or whatever. But yeah, ideally you do both. But the, the, I think your point you're making that I think is so true is just like, you know, a lot, there's a lot of people that like to take like a yoga class once or twice a week, an hour of some good static stretching. And if you are trying to improve range of motion, you are far better off, you know, picking one or two movements, you know, in my case the combats and just doing it three, four, five times a day, every day in a little two minute shots, then you are sitting for an hour. You'll notice I've done little stints of this huge difference. And I'm getting motivated actually right now to try and do more of this, but I notice my flexibility dramatically improve that day. And then the next, it's like you can see the improvements happening so fast with this particular adaptation because it's all CNS. CNS can adapt so quickly when you do it right. Any time I can hang on a bar or like in the doorways, I'm always like promoting that position where I'm getting open again just because it's, it pays dividends. Next question is from Folville Castle. What are your thoughts on incline versus flat close grip bench press for tricep development? Yeah. I picked this for you Adam because you're the first person that I ever heard say that they stay, first off I've never seen, I'd never done or seen a close grip incline press. The only way I'd ever seen it or done it before was flat. Yeah. You're the first person that ever said it was superior on the incline and I've tried it and I do like it a lot. I love it. Yeah, I do. One of my explanations for it is that because you're on the incline, it increases the amount of elbow flexion and extension, which is where the tricep comes from. So it encourages this like combination skull crusher press versus here on the flat, I might have a tendency to not do lots of elbow flexion and bring my hands a little too low and get more shoulder. That's what I... It is. It's the angle. It feels way more comfortable on the incline than it does on the flat. On the flat and also to the, when you're pushing on the flat bench, you tend to kind of like the shoulders kind of roll forward and push there. Where the incline kind of promotes that the shoulders stand back and then really extending with the... So I fell in love with it and there's... Which one of those internet trolls was talking shit about us saying that incline... I mean, yeah, the close grip bench press is a terrible tricep exercise. Oh, did somebody say that? Yeah, yeah. I think it was that one clown you always get in a fight with the one that... Who cares? What's his name? Trying to be a nice guy. You know what I'm talking about? The one that I think blocked you later on. Oh, I don't want to say it. You steroid it out, dude. We've given them another extension. Because what they make these cases that these isolation exercises like a skull crusher tricep push down activates more of the tricep than this compound lift. I hate those studies sometimes. I know. And I was caught in that. I was caught in that same trap that all I did was tricep push down skull crushers and stuff like that, which great exercises for the triceps. I'm not saying that. But the close grip bench press in particular the incline put more mass on my triceps than anything else that I did. Because I could get to a place where I was doing 225 in that position and load it substantially. Exactly. And I couldn't, I can't skull crush that. I can't tricep push down. One of the only body parts I have where I'm relatively gifted is triceps. And I can tell a dramatic difference when I stop doing close grip presses and dips and just stick to tricep extension, overhead, cable, side, whatever. I can tell. I can tell my tricep development every single time. So those compound lists for those smaller body parts I mean it's funny because nobody would make the argument for like chest and lats. Nope. Because I can show you the same studies that show you the cable fly. No, it's the same science nerds that want to use the muscle activation angle always. Yeah. Just like, oh, there's, you do a skull crusher or you do a tricep push down and it lights the triceps up and very little anywhere else where if you do a flat bench shoulders get activated, chest gets involved in there. That's a great point. Like you don't see that with the chest. You don't see that with flies versus like a bench press. Everybody knows you build more muscle with a bench press. I tell you what, if you did a really good straight arm pull down or a really good cable fly, it would light up on those studies. You're going to do, you're going to build a bigger chest doing that than you are benching or bigger back doing a straight arm pull down in order with a barbell row. Right. No, you're not. This is the same people that say that dead lifts don't build the back, which blows my mind. By the way, dead lifts, pro bodybuilders now are starting to do it. A lot of them. I see a ton of them now. You know why? This is just bodybuilding. It's because if a champion does them, then everybody starts doing them. But I think now people are starting to feel and see like, oh, this actually makes a difference. It actually contributes. If you are trying to develop massive triceps and you absolutely, in my opinion, have to have close grip bench press in there and or dips. Those two movements. Now I do want to say one thing is don't go too narrow. This is the big mistake a lot of people make. Yeah, because this, it'll hurt your wrist. I mean, I coach shoulder with. Where you're at, go straight to the bar. That's it. And then the key is in the elbow extension inflection. That's such a good point too, Sal, because people get so hung up and like, oh, it's close grip. So how close can I get? No. And it's like, and then you end up flaring way out. It's just like, dude, if you are straight on there, I mean, it's weird press. Primarily triceps right there. That's such a great movement. It's one of my favorite movements for tricep development. Agreed. Look, if you like our information, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump Justin. Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam. And you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Sal. The rules that apply to somebody who is going from a man who's going from 20% body fat to 15%. The rules that apply to that person are the same as the rules that go from 10% to 5%. The difference is everything that we talked about.