 Wir haben einen Hackspace für Beginn, Lukaro und King Barbeque um die Vereinsgruppe zu machen und einen Klub zu machen, wie es weit geht. Wir haben zwei Speakers für das, Torben Dittmer und Samuel Brinkmann. Die beiden haben den Chaos Club in Flensburg organisiert. Das ist das, was sie von uns machen. Sie wollen uns erzählen, wie sie das Team und so aufzulegen. Ja, ich habe einen großen Applaus für Sie. Ja, danke. Willkommen, guten Morgen von uns auch. Vielen Dank, dass du hier bist, weil eine ganze Story startet mit etwas wie dieses, aber in einem anderen Ort. Es war in Hamburg und wir sind in Kongres, und es ist so groß hier. Die großen Leute, überall gibt es coolen Projekte, die man von uns lernen kann. Alles ist geblinkt. Das ist genau das, was wir in Flensburg wollen. Wir wollen dieses Zuhause nehmen, das Gefühl, dass wir nicht einmal ein Jahr, drei tolle Tage haben wollen, aber im besten Fall jeden Tag. Das ist das, was wir auf unserer Reise genommen haben und die Chaos Club in Flensburg gefunden haben. Das ist uns. Das ist unser Start. Warum hast du das Club gefunden? Ich glaube, das ist eine sehr wichtige Frage, die du für uns in advance fragen solltest. Es war wirklich klar, dass wir ein Hackspace haben wollen. Es ist wie das Name sagt, ein paar Hackspaces. Du brauchst Wumms, du brauchst Tools, du brauchst shared Projekte. Es ist toll, eine Registriersation für das zu haben, dann kannst du kommunizieren, z.B. mit Fee und Tools kaufen. Das ist ein cooles Weg, das zu organisieren. Es gibt andere wesentliche, die für eine Registriersation sind. Vielleicht wollen du ein Softwareprojekt haben und finanziell supportieren wollen. Und das andere ist, wenn du eine Infrastruktur haben willst, dann ist eine Registriersation das beste Weg für das. Aber es sollte klar sein, dass eine Registriersation, z.B. in Deutschland, mit some work connected ist. Es ist nicht so, dass du es einmal gemacht hast, dann ist es ein Setup für immer, aber es ist ein continuous Work, und wenn du mehr Mitglieder hast, dann brauchst du, z.B. die Leute, die für das wichtigste Ding sind. Aber los geht's zu Beginn. Wie zu finanzieren eine Registriersation? Wie zu finanzieren ein Club? Wir haben das German-Example geschaut, und es ist ein bisschen mehr kompliziert. Das ist unser Best of PowerPoint Magic, um es so visualisch wie möglich zu machen. Der erste Schritt ist, du brauchst mindestens 7 Leute, die in der Registriersation sind, und du brauchst mindestens 7 Leute, die in der Registriersation sind. Ein Tipp von uns ist, die Leute in der Registriersation zu sprechen, was sie tun wollen, und wie sie sich mit Entscheidungen betrachten. Vielleicht gibt es Leute, die nicht so oft treffen wollen, und vielleicht ein bisschen mehr inklusive machen. Also musst du diese Entscheidungen sprechen. Wenn du 7 Leute haben, das ist zumindest die erste Zeit, um zu treffen, und es muss ein Protokoll sein, so dass jemand die Meeting hat, so dass es ein bisschen formal ist. Das ist das zweite wichtige Ding. Das ist nämlich die Satzung. Ja, du brauchst eine Formalisation der Registriersation, und du kannst sagen, wie die Registriersation in der Registriersation wird, und wie die Meetings gehen, und wie die Entscheidungen sind, und so weiter. Und auch, was passiert, wenn die Registriersation zuvor verlassen ist, und wie viele Mitglieder die Registriersation haben, und es ist wichtig, dass du darüber gesprochen hast, wirklich zu Beginn, und dass du auch Ideen hast. Und dann gibt es einen großen Vorteil, dass du nicht die Wheel inventierst, aber du kannst schauen, wie die anderen Registriersationen organisieren. Das ist das, was wir gemacht haben. Wir haben gesagt, wir wollten, ja, ich weiß nicht, wir wollen, dass wir die Registriersation nicht profitieren, und wir haben geguckt, wie die Registriersationen sich selbst organisieren und wie die Formel und so weiter. Wir haben gesagt, wir sind 7 Personen, und wir haben ein Protokoll, und wir müssen auf das Formel decided und das ist für die Association das Wettbewerb zu beginnen. In dieser Meeting hast du Leute, das ist wichtig, wie die Registriersation in Amtsgericht in Deutschland, wie das Federal Court. Du kannst nicht sagen, wir sind 7 Personen, wir sind eine Registriersation, jetzt musst du mit deinem Protokoll mit deinem Formel mit deinem Protokoll zu Notturi und ja, das ist für sie ein Standard-Werk. Du kannst einfach dort gehen oder die Menschen dort gehen und von diesem Punkt an die Registriersation für die Registriersation auf dem Court. Wenn du fragst, wie das Notturi geht und wie die Registriersation geht du kannst ein paar Tage haben aber es wird nicht mehr ein paar Wochen dauern, weil es alles durch die Post und die Dinge in Deutschland geht. Du musst, wenn du eine Association willst, ein Post-Adress brauchen. Weil all diese offiziellen Läden durch den Court und so gehen. Dass es nicht dass deine neue Registriersation ist. Du musst sagen, was deine Registriersation ist. Aber unsere Registriersation ist in Flensburg. Aber unser Post-Adress war wie eine Postbox für manchmal eine gute Idee. Weil du die Postbox öffnest und vielleicht findest du die Kiste manchmal und dann fragst du dich was ist die Kiste für und du findest die Läden ein paar Wochen ago. Es ist besser ein privates Adress als jemand, der vielleicht die Läden oder die Postbox öffnet. Wenn du die Kiste aus dem Court holst, dann bist du fertig. Dann bist du in der Registriersation. Es war nicht so gut für uns das erste Mal, weil sie gesagt haben, wir mussten etwas ändern. Dann machen wir die Idee und denken an den Vorstand. Okay, dann ist es die Registriersation. Dann ist alles fertig. Du kannst einen Applaus für dich selbst machen. Das ist auch gut. Eine andere Sache du musst, die ist unser Tipp, ist ein folder, wo du all das wichtiges alles behalten kannst. Das ist ein Protokoll oder etwas anderes. Du musst es in ein folder collecten, weil es später gebraucht ist und du musst es behalten. Das ist das einfachste, um es in einem folder zu machen. Wir haben eine Lösung mit einem anderen Scan-Document, aber es ist noch ein regularer folder, wo du die Dinge inbauen kannst. Es ist bestmordig. Der nächste Person, der das anschaut, ist, dass es einfacher ist. Aber das ist essentiell für die Registriersation. Eine andere Sache du musst, ist ein Bankaccount. Du kannst ein Bankaccount für die Registriersation machen. Das ist wichtig, wenn du die Memberfee collecten willst. Dann kannst du die Memberfee bereits in den Bankaccount gehen. Du kannst ein Bankaccount für jede Bank. Es gibt auch einen Bankaccount. In diesem Fall kannst du die Registriersation machen. Alle 7 Personen, die in der Fundation sind, sind schon die Mitglieder der Registriersation, aber du willst wahrscheinlich mehr Mitglieder. Das ist wichtig. Die Mitglieder der Registriersation haben eine Idee, dass du die Mitglieder von einer Mitgliederfamilie von dem Bankaccount und den Bankaccount haben. Du kannst ein Bankaccount für jede Bankaccount machen. Du kannst also die Registriersation erzielen. Du kannst also die Registriersation von der Bankaccount machen. Du musst die Registriersation machen. Du musst die Registriersation Aber es bedeutet auch, dass es viele andere Dinge gibt, wie Registrat, Non-profit, Association, dass man Dinge für frei wird, oder dass man sie für günstiger wird. Denn wir taken care a lot of views, and we do technical education, but not every association has to be non-profit. Once you register your association, you're just an association, and then you have to go to the financial bureau and they can make you a non-profit. And they will look at the reasons why you're doing the association, what's the reason behind it, and if people really profit from that. But the financial bureau can also say, well, that's not enough, you have to give us some more info about what you're doing. So, the more you think beforehand, the easier it gets when founding it. And again, look at other associations, what are they doing, what are they saying, why they're non-profit and why the public profits of it. It can help you find that out. And once you're non-profit, you really have to see what you're spending your money for. You can't spend it for yourself or something like this. And it has to be really strict that this is really something you do for the public and for the association when you spend money. And also for the financial bureau, you really have to prove that you spend the money the right way. So, once we've registered the company, we made it and also when going to the financial bureau, we made it so it's not so hard to get. If you don't really need it, you might not even have to go for it and register it as a non-profit association. And once you've been founded, we look at some other positions in the club. There's a club meeting, so once you have the seven plus people, so you have to be to your contract, you have to be a club meeting every ... In our contract, it's written that we have to do this once a year. The CCC only does it every two years. And that's a picture of the last yearly meeting we had. The yearly meeting is one of the most important things on the legal side that you do. All the members that show up to that meeting, they elect the management of the club. And this yearly meeting is really for doing all the organizational stuff. You look at the money you spend, you look at the management of the club. You maybe look again at the non-probability of the association and you work on that. But at the end, all the members of the club, they together decide what this club is about, what this association is about. Meistens Vereine schreiben sich dann wieder Regeln für die Mitgliederversammlung. Most of the clubs, they have the rules for that meeting written in the contract of the club. And so there has to be a minimum number of people present at these meetings. So you're ready to elect or do some major changes for the contract. So, normally this is like a percentage of the people that have to be here, a fixed number and if these people don't have you can't make any changes to this. It's a very official thing to this meeting. Somebody has to write a protocol, you have to open the whole meeting. If there's an election, it might be secret elections. So, once the management changes, you have to really see how the old people go and the new people come and this all works together. And the management of the club, they really have to do more than the normal members of the club. So, they also ask if they did everything right. You look to all the definitions of the club, you take the protocol and in the end all the papers were taken together. You put them into your folder, it's signed off. And again, this goes to the notary and the notary might have to do some changes. If the management of the association changed for example and makes it then all valid. Well, and here's a member you might have to do some changes. All the great things we could do. But you got to be careful. If you want to go not to the organization and stuff, but all to the little topics that your association wants to do, it might get too messy on that one meeting. And everything you talk about in that yearly meeting, in the special meeting, will get written down in the protocol. So, maybe the topics, the initial topics might be in a different, this might not be the right way to talk about these topics. And since our registration, if we have this yearly meeting, we invite all the people to it. And we close it and then we close the meeting and then we can also have some meetings. So, maybe the initial topics might be in a different, this might not be the right way to talk about these topics. So, we close it and then we close the meeting and then we can also have some different talks, but they're outside of the normal meeting. Von unserem ersten Vorsitzenden, wir nennen ihn gerne El Presidente. But now I'll pass on to El Presidente, which is our first manager of the association. So, what does the management of association do? I made a slide, let's look at it. So, that's what we do. At least what people imagine what the management looks like. In the end of the day, it's not that exciting. It's more boring. So, in the contract again, it's written all the things that the management could do. You need at least three people in the management. You have a treasurer who takes care about all the financial situations of the club. It's the hardest job actually in the management of an association. This person has to take care about the money, about the petty cash. Where do we spend our money on? Where do we get money? Where is the fees from the members of the club? You have to record where you spend the money for and it's a lot of work and it's a lot of tidy work. At least two are the members of the management. There's a second and the first management person. But the three of them together have the same rights. We're quite a small club. So we try to really limit the structures and the overhead that we get through this. So, up to 500€, we have the decision that one person of the management can decide if it's over 500€, you need at least two reasons to keep the whole process simple. And we have a chat system where all the people of the club can talk about and they see what's going on. And we put the things in the chat so everybody knows about what's going on. So if it's about opening a bank account or doing some changes to register. Again you have to look at the contract of the registration. So if you put your contract of the association on the contract everybody can take a look at it and make sure that everything is right and how many people really have to come. Genau. Das heißt, realistisch gesehen sitzt man halt häufig. So, most of the time you sit at the notary, you sit at the bank and you get fed a lot of little sweets and everything and make sure that the paper is folded and put away right afterwards the right way so you find it again. And that's a lot of work you have to do. But it sounds funny. But it's work, you know. And the whole bureaucracy somebody has to take care about it and make sure it is. So really think what are the right people of your club that are good for such kind of a position. It's a lot of responsibility that you have for the money being spent. So everything is properly done. It's properly recorded. So you need the right person for that. And we try to make it as transparent as possible. Because we're just 30 members in our club so that's quite easy. And so we have the management really has to make sure that the yearly meeting is done. The membership meeting. But also members of the club might have asked for changes on the contract. Ich möchte mich hier schon mal bei den englischen Zuhörern... Ja, I want to say sorry for the English people for this introduction to German bureaucracy. If you're still listening, then yeah, it's great. So okay, you found an association so let's do a hacker space and make a place now. So most associations need rooms after all. You want to make communities. You want to have workshops and maybe a social room where you can meet and exchange ideas and so on. We have regular meetings for that and we said we want to have fixed rooms for that. And as an association you usually don't have too much money. So even in the smaller hacker space there's still room for the largest project. So here as you can see you can use stairs as a workshop if you have not enough space everywhere else. If you're looking for rooms, then take your time. You'll probably find something that's great partners for cooperation. So if you want to found a carousel, then maybe look if there's a hacker space or a maker space already that you can join in. If not, then talk to other cultural associations other youth clubs. We are working together with cultural clubs with the Danish cultural clubs at the border on top. It's cool to feel if there are some associations you can do collaborations with. For the most association it's too expensive to own rooms at the beginning. So it's all about money. You should think about what you want to do with your club. Do you want to be public space, public meeting, regular meetings and maybe want to meet or beer and pizza and make an event once a year then you can think there's small membership fees and a low entrance limit and so on. But if you are more to the point you want to invest a lot of money in your tools you want to have bigger rooms bigger projects more than one event in a year then you should think of saying your members you want to spend more money and get donations and so on. So you you have to say you want to engage in this association but you still want to pay and we say that our membership fee is open to what the people are willing to pay many of them pay 10 years some more, some less and at the end it's coming more or less to zero you want to communicate on that you want to have publicity so you have to have a good communication model and that's like what people think about argue about often do you want to have a mailing list or chat to like rocket chat or Slack or do you want to have a forum where you can talk on stuff and yeah, that's your decision that's depending on your group we prefer chatting other hackerspace prefer mailing lists maybe it was like a bit 90 stuff for us because we are more or less all young students but try different technologies and then you will find something that fits to your needs and then you have a great communication and even if you just meet once a week regularly and many members don't have time every time then we are already good in contact with all 30 members and we are a good community and exchanging ideas talking about your own projects and so on so that you're not only yourself internet connected but maybe connect to other groups and other associations there's a lot of hackerspaces and KS Computer Club you're doing something right you're in the congress here but what we also wanted to learn there's more networking possibilities so there's organizational possibilities Treasury for people like administering mailing lists for people doing publicity but in the KS Computer Club there's also the regular meetings where the regular leaders meet 5 times a year to change ideas to talk on what happens in the KS Computer Club what do you want to work together on and you can tune in there and you can say I want to work with them and then you get a little bit deeper in the structures the regular meeting has been already in the congress yesterday but go there exchange ideas, talk about things especially if you want to have a Makerspace, Makerspace area and furthermore don't use too many tools a mailing list chat and a good calendar are probably enough to organize yourself and then everything should work if you have bigger projects we are doing a lot of events per year that's a small advertisement video for our last event, the Hexons Beach there's a cool beach in Flensburg and we can go there work a bit and events are great to bring a community together because it connects your community associations, your club and people don't go to public meetings all the time but it also connects those people who are interested in your stuff maybe not being a member of your association yet you can get great cooperation there and we have this mini hexerspace, mini congress thing where you can provide workspace and exchange and some talks and some partying and stuff yeah and having fun mini hexerspace and at your events think about is it different that they have your own little thing we are going to the water because we are a maritime but that's like a different atmosphere being outdoors outside more interaction with the nature yeah think of whom we can cooperate with another event that we are doing is the TÜVTIL tag like experimenting days together with the climate project and beginning of this year around like 180 800 people yeah the usual stuff hacking, talking and chilling but at a different place with different people with different peer groups people didn't know about us new challenges new location and having fun with the device at the end of the day to do such an event what do you need not much we care about that we are doing the project leading maybe for the infrastructure some people so if you have a hexerspace you want to have internet on your event and your project leading should call someone who is caring for the internet at the end of the day and the same goes for food and drink and what else needs but at the end of the day good idea to talk to the people who are organizing the congress to talk to the angels you don't have to have 4000 angels to do such an event 5-6 people are often enough as well and yeah there is a lot of fun with that maybe you need some coolness to stay cool and maybe maybe take some small fee from your members non-profit association then you can make the bureaucraties thing easy and our financial people can give you tips on that afterwards as well with that I just want to say have fun have fun with the device and with the club create communities click it I think it brought us good things in the last years and we found new friends and we are not thinking about stopping if you found such a club one time then thing is running and you you can do it even the financial stuff that sounds evil but if you are just talking to them then it's also nice people there yeah great if there are any questions Samuel is for you write emails and we are here right after the talk and we have some GitHub repository with some questions Q&A and best practice information so if you are finding such an association you don't want to know how web association works but like other hackerspace there is information on that as well yeah thanks for your attention ja danke nochmal auch von mir an Thorpen und Samuel thanks a lot to the both of you so are there any questions microphone one please and the microphones are not on the video is it good if they have no questions or isn't it good ich habe nur eine kurze Frage just a short question from me so going to the notary just went there and said i will have one association or did you check it out before at some legal situation and stuff yeah there's multiple possibilities so if you think you have like a lot of money you want to have managed by a notary then you can have them do it that's the service they offer but i don't know how much it is but it's probably more than some hundred euros if you just want to have a registration after the foundation meeting it's like about 90 to 150 40 euros it was been like 130 euros for us but it's like one time fee for the registration but they are helping you to make common mistakes and maybe there's a signature missing or you need to have a different formatting for a protocol or something isn't quite clear yet so they are looking through it with you and common mistakes if the election results aren't correct aren't detailed enough maybe it's a bit more expensive but we have found ourselves as well it's not so complicated just took like an afternoon maybe even less to reach through that stuff and then you might get experts on how to manage a club and you can just copy those stuff i think back then we orientated other hacker spaces and other contracts of other clubs and the backspace of bumberg we took a lot of stuff from them so thanks to them ja cool herzlichen dank nochmal oh, there's one more question hi i'd like to know it's two legal german legal terms if you have a contract or association contract and if there's an experience between the two types of contracts and if you go to the notary it's a contract association all the changes have to be done through the notary and so should it not rather be like a normal contract not an association contract because otherwise every time you have to pay money if the notary has to change it we had like very less constitutional changes yet at least only one or two times when in our foundational membership meetings we had to reduce the percentage of members needing to be there to have decisions but you can do different contracts for financial stuff maybe that's important so we don't set of financial stuff in our constitution but in another piece of paper that's referens by the constitution because the constitution it should be very short so you don't have to change it that often so is there a specific example where you say there's often changes no, we have a club and I'm a member for 20 years now and a lot of things like piled up of all the changes and now it's a lot of work we will have to do and for everything you have to pay money again and get money again and if it's not the way that you thought it would be and the notary said you have to check it again so I thought maybe you have some experience in that area too so like financial membership fees contracts you should keep it different because then you can do different membership fees and so on without having to go to the notary maybe a youth fee or something like that so otherwise if the room is changing if you have to pay more for your rooms then you maybe have to increase your fees as well so the important thing that the constitution is the legal fallback thing so that means if you are able to do it then you should do much of the decisions and so on in the small area and the constitution is then important if there is legal matters and if you are getting bigger to have cleanest there and those topic things so for being on profit you have to set a small focus on what topic you want to focus on we have popular education in the technology and so on and that's like a very bold topic you can do a lot of things on another topic but the detailed topics are discussed by the members at the meetings wir haben eine Frage vom Signal Angel there's one more question from the Signal Angel ja, es gibt eine Frage aus dem Internet there's one question from the Internet what's the right URL the URL you wrote there is not right just go to github and search for ok, it's to a Flensburg, it should work there interesting, we are going to find that out it might happen that link is working after the talk afterwards maybe the web-pository is private or something one more question on microphone one hi so there's a lot of responsibility if you have an association wissen wir auch did you think about if it would be without being an association an association is there maybe an easier way somebody in the audience who has an experience without this association structure so how does it look like if you are not a registered association so what did you move to get a registered association after all and not only just a gathering of people and maybe an internal ethics and working with that an important reason why we found an association was we wanted to rent rooms and tools that are used by the financial members of the club and also paid by the members of the club and an association works like every person in the association has one vote and not just a single one can decide everything and you have a bit of security on that but on the other hand if you can make donations, accept donations if you are a non-profit and you can get tools donated or money donated and that's good for us but if you are just like we have 5-6 people and we just want to meet up for regularly you might say it's too much work to find an association another thing might be a registered association that's what we called in Germany but there's the non-registered association so you don't get a registration it's also complicated for german legal measures but you are more like a small company that everyone has to agree on everything using your money but that makes other things complicated because as an association you can go to the bank and try to get a bank account and that's pretty easy because it's like quite popular because there are many associations doing that but if you are saying you are just an association then someone who is far away from the computer stuff I can accept that you have sport clubs as well and I can understand that better if you are just a bunch of people also the whole legal matters when you start meeting with your friends and there's no clear structure just in the room then someone decides well we are an association and and he wants to get legal stuff with you and then someone else say you are more like a small company so you can also find that by mistake by accident then everyone is like responsible for that so a legal protection ist legal protection auch noch mal von mir herzlichen Dank herzlichen Dank an die beiden nochmal ein riesen Applaus Dankeschön