 Okay, I'm good. I'm starting. So I'm here right now with Carolyn North, who's a wonderful friend to the community, a friend to the world, a friend to me. Really happy to be able to say that, celebrating this beautiful new work of art that just launched this week. What's the name of it? It's called World Shift Happens. Facing down the fear, waking up the mind. And there's so many amazing stories in this book and around the book, but I wanted you to share, first of all, the serendipity of even getting it published and how that happened, how that piece of it happened. Okay, it's a great story. It's sort of an unbelievable story. And that was at about two months ago, I made a call to somebody here in California and got somebody in New Jersey. But I didn't get just somebody. I got a woman who was a good friend and a publisher of mine over 10 years ago. And I asked for my friend here, who's a young man, and got this woman of my age who was on the other side of the country. Thought, what's going on? And so we caught up with each other because we recognized each other's voice. And then in the course of our conversation, I realized I had this manuscript, which I had written 12 years ago, and it had never been published. And it's about the World Shift time. I was a bit ahead of my time at the time, but now was indeed the time. So I said, Brenda, I have a manuscript. Would you like to see it? Anyhow, and then it all rolled out. She did. I sent it in manuscript form. She said, oh my goodness, yes, let's do it. And let's do it for Christmas. So it came out. I got my copies last night. So pretty unex, it's like the universe was saying, okay, let's get this into people's hands. It's an important message for our time. And here it is. Well, it is. It's really interesting now also that this is out around the time that we're going into the new year. And that obviously we're in the midst of a pandemic, a global pandemic, and the old systems kind of falling apart in a way. And then we have something that is supporting and sharing with folks how we got to this place in our world and how we can move forward in a good way. And so what are the main components of what you like to share with people about this? You have anecdotes. You have stories. It's really well written. It's a weave of stories of your life. And there's also some things in here about the world that may possibly, hopefully, beautifully be created. The thing I love about it, it's not so many things around this period are so dystopian. And this is so hopeful. It's so rich. It's fun. It's spooky a little bit because it's so because you were at 12 years ago. So it's kind of like how did you like how are you aware intuitively of all these things that, you know, people would need to know right now, which are really going to support people, I believe. I hope so. Well, thank you. Basically, I wanted to do three things. And the first was sort of philosophical. Like, we have a society that seems to be based on a very old paradigm that is an unworking paradigm. And it's been unworking, from my point of view, certainly economically and nationally for thousands of years. So I wanted to address that. I also wanted to address the whole issue of fear because a lot of the real insanity that is going on, I think, is based on a very deep, deep sitting fear in our human soul. And essentially what it is, I think, is a fear of death. So I wanted to address that fear of death, which and I had already written all of this for another book that I wrote about the death and dying process a couple of years ago that the publisher would not put in because it was, you know, too scary, basically. And then what I wanted to do was to imagine the world after the inevitable breakdown of this time and imagine how the survivors would put together the world according to very different basic understanding of the nature of reality and how we should live on the earth amongst one another. So the book is comprised of those three issues. So it's the philosophy, the issue of death and dying in which what I wanted to show was that our fear of it is unfounded and that it's just part of a cycle and the whole earth and the whole universe goes in continual cycles. So, you know, dying does not mean the end of anything except a particular cycle. So it's not the end of us as individuals or even as a species from what I have learned and then the utopia. But let me say another thing about this. Well, I will ask me a question. I do. I am interested in the difference between like pre-COVID, pre-pandemic, like we're standing right here right now. It's December, what, 17th, 18th, we just got this thing on the phone, like everyone go home. It's, you know, it's an emergency alert. Like we're living in this really weird time. We're in the same community just so everyone knows same pod. But pre-COVID, the publisher is kind of being afraid even of the chapters on death and dying. It's important to me and my work because I realize a lot of, like you were saying, echoing what you were saying about people being really, really afraid of life because we're afraid of transitioning and living in a capitalist society, material, material, material, material society where we've been convinced kind of hoodwinked into thinking that this, this is it when in reality, you know, when you were, when people, permaculture, some people work with nature and indigenous folks and black people work with the land and folks who are connected understanding with the cycles of life, birth and transition that we continue to move forward. So my question is, what do you think was different 12 years out? You think it was the pandemic and the fact that now people need, they need this medicine. This is your medicine folks. Like really, I've been reading it. It's really, am I knowing what I love you and your stories are incredible and you're incredible and just such a gem. Really, Helene was saying that like, oh my God, this is so cool that you're going to have this conversation. But what do you think, do you think people are ready to move from the fear of transitioning to really trying to embrace the totality, the wholeness of the gift that we have in this life? Well, I think some people are. And I think many people are, not everybody. However, it's that or we go down. You know, we have to, we have to take it on. We have to have the courage to face reality. And reality has, I mean, a lot of the structure of our society is not based on reality. It's based, I don't know what it's based on, but you know, like the profit motive is ridiculous. And the notion that some people can own parts of the earth, like who thought that one up? It's not real. But what's happening and that excites me very much is that the young people, the ones who have been started getting born, I don't know, 30 years ago or so, are just, I think, I don't know what it is that their soul age is more mature, or they are coming in with for a reason. But they are showing up. The young ones just blow my mind. And they are ready for this. Well, you have, you have two local peace economy, two local peace economy projects that I want to take a moment to highlight. And one is the daily bread. And the other one that you're working on and engaged in right now is an eldering and transition project that's actually happening right here where we are. I guess in partnership with Wild and Radish or in, you know, in support with and by Wild and Radish. And if you could talk about that, because it's really important, and I felt pieces of it, I feel pieces of it in some of the stories that are here. I understand why you would embark on a project like that. After having read a lot of this, and your understanding of wanting to have a beautiful transition and have a transition that is, you know, relates to who you are, who you've been and the work that you've done on the planet. Well, thank you. I think it's also so important to be able to face death and dying. And we don't in this society, nor do we face aging. My goodness. And one of the reasons I'm here was the thought of going into a nursing home. It's like, I'll kill myself first. Can you tell people what this is, what the project is? What this is. Well, and I met these people 10 years ago about the time that I completed this book. I was interested, I've been interested for a long time in how do we bring the generations together? That plus, how do we get smart about the fact that we're not here forever? And we have a society that isn't smart about either of those. So I, I, that's a great story actually. So I was, I was complaining to a friend one day that I really wanted to, I wanted to start something that involved elders and what they could offer to a community and youngers and what they could offer to a community and put it together. And she said, Oh my God, I know them. And she called out these, these folks who we now call the radishes and they, and she said, there's somebody you have to meet. And so we set up a meeting time literally for the next morning. And it was a rainy day and they had just bought this land. And so I met them. And I was so impressed. I remember this wonderful, it's actually a great story and it's not in the book. I, I asked them, though they were describing what they were going to do here. And there's, they had 10 acres and they were going to put five acres into, into a permaculture food forest and and you know, I looked at, I was with three of them or four of them and, and they're talking about planting 700 trees. And I'm thinking, Oh, these poor kids, they don't know what they're getting into. So I asked probably in a pretty disrespectful ways and who's going to do the work. And they explained to me that they'd been teaching gardening in San Quentin. And part of the reason they were doing it and part of what they wanted to, to prepare people for was when they came out and give them a, a matea that they could actually make money at, which was doing gardens in people's houses. So they were teaching these folks to actually come out. And those were the people who would put in the farm. I realized, wow, I was not prepared for this level of wisdom. And I said, Okay, I trust you. I trust you. Let me work with you. And so I have been in fact working with them in a working is probably too strong a word. I've been assisting financially and assisting because I'm just an older person with more experience than most of them have had in all the things that you get experienced in when you're a wife and a mother for years. So you said, you said at one point that you felt almost like, I don't know, limb in the project who said that before. And so you're here now, the space is gorgeous. It's a beautiful space. The way that your mind and your abilities have kind of coalesced with these folks who are younger, as you talked about, it's materialized a lot of the things that we're imagining. And so my question is, how do you feel in the day to day and, and, and your vision for moving forward in, you know, later with this? How's it going in other words? How's it going? Yeah. Well, that's a very interesting and valid question because I moved in at the beginning of the shutdown. So, and this room that you can see sort of behind us, it used to be the old garage. And it's now a perfect size studio apartment for a single person. I think two people could even live here, if necessary, they'd have to really get along. So how do we all get along? It's, I would say, basically well. And it's amazing that we do partly because we have to wear masks and we can't laugh together and we can't stand too close to each other except when we do. Yeah. So, you know, it's a, it's an amazing group of people and we have recently taken on, I say we, I mean, I'm, I'm a recent come oner. But we want a diversified community. And so, and everybody's got a friend who he or she would like to have here. And so we've sort of brought our friends together. And then we're all behind masks. And I'm trying to figure out how to do this crazy thing. And so now we're coming into winter. So the activity on the farm itself will be changing. And I, you know, I mean, it's, I live day to day. And more and more get to know people. I'm older than everybody else. And so it's a little, you know, it's taken a while for us to find one another in a way like, what is my role? I'm this old lady in the middle of all these wonderful young people. Like, what do I do? Am I one of them? Am I grandma? Am I the wise woman sitting in the garage? I don't know yet. But, but I think what is building just in the whatever it is, four months I've been here, is esteem and love. I love these people. I'm astonished by them. And I'm also astonished by their children. So the kids, you know, gravitate towards me very easily. And now we're all doing it in masks. But, but we dance together and we talk and they tell me about their friends and they make poop jokes and all that sort of stuff. And I'm perfect. And I'm the perfect foil for, for these kids and their parents and, and their friends. I mean, I feel very, very fortunate to have landed here, especially as many of my, my cohort, you know, people on, I just turned 83. So, you know, people my age are ill and dying. And some of them are in nursing homes of one sort or another, ill and dying. Except that you didn't want to go into, you don't want to go that route. And so do you feel, and in my own, in my personal life right now, I'm witnessing a lot of folks who are transitioning or who are, who are in the 70s or in their late mid to mid 70s and thinking about, you know, how they want to spend the last, you know, a few really great years of their lives moving into their 80s, 90s, 100s. So what you're doing, because you're in it, it's not like you're thinking about it, you're in the space, you're in this time of your life. Do you feel living into this idea as it's materialized? How does that feel? Is that, is that a great feeling? Is it a scary feeling? Is it like, what am I doing? Or is it wonderful for you? It's all of the above, really. Mostly it's wonderful. And mostly it's very satisfying, because one of the, one of, I think my purpose is on the planet is to try and get at the fear of death. And so if I can actually demonstrate aging and getting frailer and eventually dying, and do it as a very natural thing, do it, you know, do it deliberately, as opposed to being a victim of it, then hopefully I can teach by just demonstration. By being, by being young. Yeah, just being, you know, a lady who's getting older and older, and needs more and more help. Like the other night I took my first fall. It was a very exciting moment. Carol's a dancer, though, too. So Carol probably falls better than most of us, I have to say that. Well, I didn't break anything. But it was, it was very heartwarming, because there were, what, three folks who happened to be sort of around. And I fell partly because there were also three dogs, and they were bouncing all over the place. And it was night, and I couldn't see where I was walking. So I tripped. And my goodness, they were there like this. And if I had allowed them to, they would have, you know, all gotten together, picked me off the ground, you know, made sure I had no broken bones. I wouldn't let them. I insisted upon, you know, them standing there, but letting me lean on them, rather than them lifting me. But I thought, okay, here we go. This is your first fall. And it won't be the last one. And, you know, nobody's going to run away. How important is it for people to have loving community? How important is it for us to have loving community around us, at any juncture of our lives, especially as we're aging? It's the most important thing in the world, I think, and its family. It's, and we are, we are social creatures. And we live, so many of us live isolated lives, and are depressed, and are taking pills for their depression. And, you know, we're not meant to be alone at any age, unless we choose to be. I'm a writer, so I have to be alone part of the time and don't want constant company. But living in a community where people are concerned, are watching me and concerned for my welfare, and grateful for my experience. And, and for what I do have to offer is, feels exactly right. I come from, I have three children, and my marriage lasted for over half a century. And we had a big brown shingle house in Berkeley, two story, and there I was, you know, when the children all left, and then my husband died a few years ago, it was like me in this big family house. And it was crazy, you know, I mean, it's dangerous. I, it was really dangerous. And I, I took in some tenants just because I was curious to know what that was like. And didn't like it. You know, I was living with strangers, and they were living in what had been my home for half a century and didn't do things my way. My home, like, wait a minute, you got to wash your dishes before you leave for work. Well, I'm going to eclipse and what that would probably like for all of you. Right. It wasn't, it wasn't ideal. So I got, okay, you know, try that out and learn some important things. And living there alone was not possible. I mean, it was dangerous for me. So, you know, it all kind of worked over time that I, in fact, moved to a community, get to know, and then I had 10 years before I actually moved here to get to know these people. And, and we worked together on, on building projects, which is, you know, how this garage turned into a living space. A really cool spot, a really, really cool spot to live. There's a piece in here at the end is the third piece, the third and final piece of the book, where you describe a really wonderful world where people are living together, the babies are born naturally at home and they're raised with animals and they're, you know, the elders are a part of the community and it's, it's, it feels natural, it's romantic, it's sweet, it's real too. It's not like, you know, not without its realism. Is that what you sense that's your dream or you're speaking out into the field of consciousness, the collective field of what you want to see happen? Yes. Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, if it's my book, I couldn't say whatever I want. So that I was describing what for me would be an ideal life. And I got many of my clues, well, just from my imagination, but also from here. And from my brother, I actually, my brother was, he just died, which is, I'm still not used to, but he was a farmer in Vermont and on the most gorgeous farm and it was owned collectively by a group of people. And it was always my ideal of how people should live together. And so I, I cited in my, my fiction, I put this community on my brother's farm without saying so. And, and then, and then made up a story and made up the people. And what I was trying to illustrate was all the, the variation, the possible variations of ways to live when we finally get rid of this fossil fuel nonsense. And when we recognize that the earth is not to be owned by anybody and figure out ways to live on the earth together, feed ourselves, get along with one another, teach our children, etc. And die. Yeah, yeah. So this is, this is, this is a really cool, amazing project. This is a great book. I am excited about it, because I feel that like when I talk to people, first of all, I've been living in California, I guess, for 15 years. And so when I talk to them, that's a trip unto itself. But when I talk to my friends back in the Midwest or New York City, it's like I'm on another planet. Like the things here that we take, the consciousness that we take for granted and the conversations that we have kind of put me like, I feel like I'm out here, out here somewhere talking when I talk to my people back home. But when I read this, it gives me a lot of, it's encouraging, because I know I could give this book to anyone of my friends, anyone, anyone. And from, regardless of the walk of life, whether they're completely in like, smack dab in the middle of the, what we call the matrix. Everyone right now, I think on the planet is thinking about like, what next, like what's going to happen? Like we're moving into this unknown. So I kind of feel like this is just wonderful. Because as I read it, I think wow, anyone could pick this up and read it and find a place of entry and understand, because you kind of go into like, where the world that we're living in right now, like how it was kind of pulled together. And then the bamboozling of losing some of the most essential pieces of ourselves through having to like, make it happen, make it happen, make things happen. There's another important piece of this, which has also moved through like a lot of our conversations, was Daily Bread, which is the, and I want to kind of wrap up talking about that, which is the local piece economy project that you started once again, way before it's time or just on time. Can you tell us about Daily Bread and, and what's happening with it now, and when you started and some really beautiful stories that you have about that? Yeah, I'd love to talk about Daily Bread. Well, it's now in its 40th year. And it's, it's an all volunteer project without a budget. So this was 1982 or three or something. And it was Thanksgiving time, I mean, it's a real story. Thanksgiving time, I was walking down the street in my neighborhood and noticed in my neighbor's garbage cans the, the turkey carcasses. I mean, people were kind of like, I can't stand turkey anymore. And they just threw it away. And I came home, I was pretty shocked by it actually, because I was always, you know, the one who took the carcass and made soup out of it and made fritters out of it and made everything. So, so I was, I was shocked. So I asked my husband, who was a scientist and a numbers guy, okay, we have so and so many houses on our street. It's every, every house on both sides of just our street throughout their turkey carcasses. How much turkey would that be that was being wasted? And, and so he did the math and it was outrageous. I mean, it was pounds and pounds and pounds of perfectly good edible protein that everybody was unconsciously just tossing out. I said, that's not okay. So I dreamed up this, and I just had this idea, what if a bunch of volunteers in the neighborhoods, you know, in the city would be willing to make runs of food that was wasted in the food businesses. So all the things that get thrown into dumpsters, you know, yesterday's bread and, and things that that their, their poll dates are over that, you know, people go dumpster diving because they're hungry. This is for the most part perfectly good food. How about if instead of dumping it, we, a couple of us and you and my friends basically went around to some of the businesses we had a connection with and said, instead of you're throwing it into the dumpster, could we come and pick it up once a week. And many of them, not all, some were afraid of the legal stuff, but many of them said, oh, sure, we hate throwing it out. So that was the beginning and it started with a restaurant and a bakery in my neighborhood, and also a food kitchen in my neighborhood. And two people, me was one of the runners and a friend of mine was one of the runners. And so, and this friend of mine also worked for the Berkeley Gazette at the time, which dates me, of course. But that was the local newspaper. And so we put a little notice in the newspaper and said, we are thinking of doing this. Does anybody want to join us? And set a date and a time and a place. This is my backyard. And lo and behold, it was a mob there. Whoa, what have we started? And, and everybody wanted, not only did everybody want to do to be a runner, we call them runners, but they knew somebody who owned the bakery, or they knew somebody who worked at the Berkeley co-op, which used to be, or, you know, had some source of food. And, and so we made a list and who could do it on Wednesday, who could do it on Thursday. And we were actually up and running in 12 days. And it was all volunteer. And what I realized is we didn't need anything. We didn't need money. We didn't need trucks. We didn't need refrigerators. We didn't need anything. We just needed people who were willing to make a run, say, every Tuesday morning at nine o'clock, they would show up at such and such a restaurant, grab the food, get it over to a food pantry. There was also, I had to do some research and find out, you know, where the, where the food giveaway programs were operating in Berkeley. And there we were, you know, less than two weeks later, we were doing it. And, and it grew. And people heard about, we didn't advertise anything. We didn't do anything. It was just word of mouth. And before we knew it, reporters were coming and wanted my story. And then it, the stories were getting out in, and this was before social media in the 80s. This, so we didn't have this. But the stories were getting out, and people were calling me from all over the country, can you tell us how you did it? So I wrote up how we did it and said, you know, do it in a way that's relevant for your community. And, and don't use our name, use your own name. And currently, I mean, I mean, it's now, this is how many years later, it's 40 years later. So now the saving of food is, I heard recently that it's actually illegal in France for a food business to dump its food. That's amazing. It is, it is amazing. And now, you know, we just, we're still doing it, because we're still doing it. But it's also happening all over the place. And it's so obvious you wonder why it took this long. Well, I do, I do a lot of thank you for that story, that amazing story. I do a lot of food distribution and a lot of food prep work and a lot of, and what I'm, what I'm seeing is, is that the numbers of people who are doing it, it seems like it's, there's certain ilk of people who are involved and engaged with the work. And then it seems like the numbers of folks who are doing it. I'm wondering, I'm fascinated because I'm wondering if whether the psychic space of Americans has changed to the extent where, you know, now people say, oh, that's such wonderful work, Kelly. That's really wonderful of you to do that. But it's not really, they're not really feeling themselves necessarily. And some people are, we have a lot of wonderful people who volunteer folks who work on, you know, the project that we have here. But I'm really heartened by your story. It would seem like Carolyn and I met through that. But that's not how we met. We met through, you know, these other projects that are going on. But that's an amazing story. Daily Bread is something that you can actually look up online right now. And there's actually a photograph of you on the, on the web page. Yeah, from the, you were standing in the kitchen of the church. And the church, I think in East Oakland with some sisters. No, McGee, having you back. Yep, yep, you're there. So, thank you. Thank you for that. I want to continue talking with you at another time. I want to thank you for your book. This is really an amazing book. I don't actually have a copy of it. I was like, we're reading it. Oh, thank you. Thank you. I'm excited. Because I was reading it on my phone and like, you know, the advance, like, you know, the manuscript. And I really feel like it's a piece for the heart. It's a piece, like, many pieces speak to our mind around what's next, what we can do. But this actually weaves such beautiful stories. And it makes, it's like, I just see people with a cup of hot tea with their family or even reading some of the stories to your kids. It's just really marvelous. And thank you for this. Congratulations, girl. Get us out now everywhere. And we'll check in again. We're going to check, because this is like a work in progress, like the space with Wild and Raddish and other things. We'll check in again, though, what's going on here. I just want to let you know, I love you. I think I'm appreciative to you. So many stories of Carolyn. You'll never believe how I first saw Carolyn. It was a dream. That's another, that's for another time. But thank you, everyone. Have a beautiful day. Local peace economy forever. And take it easy. Thank you. Local peace economy forever. Ciao. Ciao.