 to order. Madam Secretary would you come in, please? To Nathan Russell? It's Donato. Donato. No, he's in there. Donato or just Don is fine. Okay. You're here. I take it. Yes. Dave Bishton, Jerry Boone, Carl Weaver. Yes. Tom Martinez. Jonathan, would you prefer Jonathan or John? John's fine. John. Andy. I'm here. I'd like to call for any additions, comments or corrections with respect to the meeting minutes of August of 2019. Has it been that long since we've sat as a board? It seems like we had a meeting at the first of this year around then, but no. Does anyone have any additions, comments or corrections to the meeting minutes of August the 19th? Those of you that had a chance to look at them. For once I see nothing that I have to say about the forgotten if I did. Could we get a motion at a second? Yes, I was just about to do that. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I move that we accept the minutes. Second. I was in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye cute. Thank you. Wow. Also with regards to the meeting at the last. Welcome to our meeting. And thank you. Donato. The, the purpose of the meeting tonight is to inform you. Of our plan to adopt the 2020. This code. already adopted these as a home rule. We don't necessarily have to adopt it, but we choose to because Longmont has a tradition of adopting the most current codes for our use. So that would include the 2020 NEC and later this year or I should say later next year we do plan to adopt the ICC family of codes which are the 2021 additions which will be a lot of fun and we look forward to adopting those next year. But that's for later time. Tonight, what I would like to do is have our electrical expert, master electrician, Matt, go over some of the main items that we want to inform you about in the NEC. And I wanna start with the actual amendments that we want to include into the NEC. I sent you a copy of the existing amendments. Those are going to stay in place. We're not gonna change those. However, we do wanna add a few more amendments that Matt will go over and discuss. And then when Matt is done discussing these or explaining these, you guys will have an opportunity to ask questions or any concerns that you might have regarding the NEC adoption. The adoption process does require public hearing that I found out that the contractors in the public just don't get too excited about the NEC adoptions. I haven't had any calls, questions, concerns. We made this meeting available to anyone who wanted to listen. I don't think we got it. Except for one person that did call Linda, I haven't had anybody express any interest in this meeting. So hopefully this will be a fairly cat and dry process. With that, I would like Matt to explain the new amendments that we are trying to adopt. Thank you, Blas. So, Don, if you could pull up the new amendments that were also attached to the memo. So after discussing with myself and two other of our electrical inspectors, we decided to add just the three of these amendments to the code. Sir, you wanted me to bring up the amendments? The new amendments, these proposed new amendments. All right, there we go. So the first one that says we're going to remove and replace some existing code text. And one of the reasons we want to revise this is to correlate with the most recent power and communications, construction specifications. They wanted to make sure that we have a service disconnecting means on the outside of each building so that in the case of a fire or other emergency, they can easily de-energize the building. And so we did that by changing the language in article 230 and actually adding an A1 location. The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location on the outside of a building or structure, as described below. On one or two family homes, the disconnecting shall be located in line with utility ground box or transformer and accessible by the utility. The service disconnecting means shall be accessible by the utility on non-dwelling units as well. And I did add the exception in there for fire pumps. Fire pumps don't necessarily need a disconnecting means. And so that one does not have to be on the outside. And then the second one, the bathroom lighting outlets. We wanted to add that into the GFCI protection requirements for single family and commercial. GFCI protection shall be provided for lighting outlets installed on walls and switches within the zone measured three feet away from each other. And walls and switches within the zone measured three feet horizontally and eight feet vertically from the wall to the top of the bathroom rib or shower stall threshold. So that's basically so that if you are in the shower, you reach over to turn the light on, you don't get shocked. So GFCI instead of shocking you. And then the third one, we've had multiple problems with this on inspections, specifically on roofs. There are set goals outside, mounted the outside of the building to have a vertical clearance. And that less than 12 inches from final grade roof surface or similar location. We've had some problems where we go to do an inspection and the receptacle is under snow. And so we decided to add that in there to make sure that the receptacles are sitting at least above a 12 inch snow load. Any questions on that? Don, can you unmute yourself? I don't have a question on any of them, Matt. I would just point out the sort of the obvious. You're making notes on basically all of these. I mean, you wouldn't necessarily see the receptacle outside unless they made a particular note of it. It'd be easy to miss that if you're doing a review, but like the service disconnect when you're doing your commercial reviews, if you saw it like just inside, you would catch that and put that outside and mission accomplished, then it would be on the plan. So therefore you wouldn't have necessarily somebody with something to complain about, you know what I mean? Yep. Yeah, I don't really have any questions or issues with any of those three. It's just the whole, you gotta warn them or they yell at you. Yep. All right, no other questions? We can go on to the significant changes of the NEC. Do we need to move to do that? I'd second that. Let's call that a motion and I'll second that. Matt can't make motions. He's not a board member. I would be happy to move that we approve the amendments to the 2020 NEC as presented by the building. Do I have a second? I second. I will some favor. Say aye. Aye. Those opposed? Aye. Oh, sorry, not opposed. I was late to the party on that one. Yeah. Let the minutes show that no one opposed the amendments. Now you wanna review, Matt, you wanna review the changes now? Yeah, you could bring up the 2020 NEC changes. So this list I made, because we didn't quite get to go to class, our classes that we originally had scheduled, I actually went through the code book page by page and put together this and the highlighted ones are stuff that will really affect our day-to-day operations. I mean, it will run into constantly. And then the other ones are kind of stuff that stuff more for the occasional situation and our electrical inspectors really need to know. So the first big one is the GSI protection required in all circuits on 125 volts to 250 volts. Previously it was only 120 volts where the GSI now protected, but now even your two-pole, 140 volt perceptible thing to be GSI protected. So associating as a car charger in the garage will now have to be GFI protected. The next one is on all receptacles and basements need to be GFI protected. That's finished and unfinished. And that was due to mostly because of flood areas because of that change. The next one, GFI protection required in laundry and bathroom sink areas and other than dwelling units. It's always been required in dwelling units for laundry areas. They decided to add in commercial spaces where they have laundry areas now and bathroom sinks. They have to be GFI protected. And the next highlight of one requires a switch at entry to attics, crawl spaces, use rooms and basements. So previously they didn't require a light in the attic or another space if it didn't have equipment. Now requiring that it does have a light in those. And then this is a big one. All services supplying dwelling units should have provided the search protection device. The code specifically states that that is including service changes. So if somebody goes to upgrade their service or change their panel out, they will have to add a search protection device. And then the 3, 14, 16, the ground wires are both four wires. That will be important again for us electrical inspectors and the electricians as it reduces the amount of wires you can fit into an electrical box. 406, 9C is what started us on getting the light, bathroom light in there as well, that the receptacles can not be within three feet horizontally from a bath or shower. So as of right now, there's a lot of contractors who are putting a receptacle just outside the bathroom area or the bathtub area. So now they have to get minimum three feet away from the bathtub. And almost every code change, they add requirements for Tampa resistant receptacles and they're going to garages, accessory dwelling units and especially buildings to the units, common areas of multifamily motels and their common areas, dormitory and assist living facilities. The next one adds some pumps, dishwashers, cordon pressure, cordon plug, connected high pressure washing machines and bottle fill stations to appliances that need GFI protections. This was just, they just added more specific appliances that require GFI projections that aren't included in 210.8, the general GFI area. And then the last one I highlighted mostly because we do have some hospitals and things that are being built. They require separation of life safety branch circuits from regular branch circuits so you don't get any electromagnetic frequency disturbance or anything like that. So 706 is there's revised requirements for ESS which is electric storage systems. So that would be batteries to include mostly with solar panels and such. And there was a lot of nomenclature changes and that's really about it. Next one allows for fire alarm dishing to means be secured in the on position. So previously you weren't allowed by code to put a lock on the fire alarm panel circuit breaker or over current protection device to keep it on. You just had to put a sticker on this as it don't turn off. So now the new code allows you to actually lock that fire alarm panel in the on position. And ARCO 800 is they're slowly moving into the NEC slowly moving into requiring low voltage systems to be inspected by us. And that's just one more step toward there. What I've been told that last year's International Association Electrical Inspector Meeting is that they hope to start requiring low voltage to be inspected by 2024. What's the virtue of that, Matt? A lot of lighting systems are going low voltage and it's gotten to the point where if you're not inspecting and going by requirements of the NEC for low voltage wiring, you're not really looking at the lighting wiring anymore. It goes to a box somewhere in the building and then from there on it's all low voltage wiring from a lighting control panel. And so at this point, we're not really looking at the wiring to lights in especially commercial spaces. That and with all the updated technology and all the data lines we have to look at, we're going to start looking more and more at even Ethernet cable requirements. A lot of communications. How much of this is going to be applicable to additions and remodels? Distant remodels, the GFI requirements at the beginning. So any added 240 volt receptacles will need to be if it's a finished basement, and now the finished basements as they're adding in receptacles, those will require those to be GFI protected. And even if they add any exterior outlets, including the air conditioners, they'll have to be GFI protected. And then obviously if they do a bathroom and all that stuff though, that will also be added into the three foot minimum and the wall switch. So for a new restroom, for a new bathroom, but not for an existing one, cutting up the walls and putting in the... If they cut up, if they tear down the walls and open up the entire walls, we will require them to move it. Not opening up the walls. Okay, if they're not opening the walls, then no. If it's cost-rehabitive and if they're not working doing, if the extent of the work isn't that much, we wouldn't make them change that. That'd be grandfathered in. Yeah, obviously there's quite a bit of cost with all this extra ground fault. Yeah, the ground fault and the search protection device on service changes is gonna be extra cost. Yeah, but I completely agree that there's a bunch in there that I wouldn't want to see just because of the constant extra cost. And they wonder why these houses are so expensive. But at the end of the day, we're not really... We're just adopting what somebody else has already decided. I mean, the state has decided and by as large as much as possible, we need uniformity. That doesn't mean that I don't support the amendment changes, but you want an electrician who's licensed across the state to be able to show up in any individual jurisdiction and know what he's supposed to do. And not be overly surprised. And again, that's why the plans, take care of what's expected on that review. So I mean, just because I don't like it doesn't mean that I wouldn't vote for it. It's decided by the state. There's a bunch of stuff in regard to say, state licensing that I don't care for, particularly with the plumbing part, but it is what it is. Don, you're muted still. Mr. Hernandez, do you have anything to add? No, I can see Kerry's face every once in a while. Kerry, I think came in late. Kerry works for LPC. Kerry, can you introduce yourself and tell the board members what you do? You're muted, Kerry. You're muted. Okay, I didn't, I couldn't hear that. I don't know if you guys heard that. No. Kerry, do you have your microphone on? I think you do. Ms. Speer, I'm Kerry Spots. I work for Longmont Power and Communications. I'm the electric meter shop supervisor. Kerry. My phone, so. Yes, I always say. Good to hear her, she's, her name is Kerry Spots and she works for Longmont Power Communications. She is the electric meter and supervisor. Thank you, Kerry. So, I guess at this point, I want to ask the board members if they have, if you guys can approve these changes to the NEC, because if you guys are okay with this, our next step would be to move to city council for them to approve it. This, this is a little unusual because in other cities, they don't go through the board to approve them. We just have to have public hearings to announce the changes to the contractors if they're interested. But I believe the way this is set up, the master board does have to review these amendments and changes and then approve those before we could move on to the city council. At least that's, that's what it was, that's what was explained to me. So, if you guys have any more questions, I would ask that you guys would consider these changes for approval. I thought we did. I thought we did approve them. You guys have to vote on them though, right? We did. Am I missing something? We'd vote on something else. Best, I thought we approved them. I'm asking the spot forward and seconded to approve the amendments to the 2020. I'm sorry, I must have not been paying attention. That's all that's all we're asking for. And I see Jerry is on board now. Hi, Jerry. How are you doing? Yeah, Jerry, Jerry. You're muted, Jerry. Jerry, you need to unmute. I believe Zoom has a facility that if you said it that when you speak it automatically unruits you, it has such a facility if we're going to use this tool. I like Zoom, but for some reason, the city wanted us to use my Vax. Linda, I don't know what that is. In Zoom, you can have a setting and whenever somebody starts speaking, they automatically unruited. Some people may not like that, but I ask of you. Hey, hi, Jerry, how are you? Hi, fine, sorry. I'm late, I had a conflict. Hey, Jerry, do you mind introducing yourself? We have some new board members. I just want to make sure everyone knows who you are and what you do. I'm Jerry Boone and I'm a retired structural engineer. Congratulations on retirement. Yeah, it's great. If only I had somewhere to go and something to do. I don't have any more for the board to review. This was what, this was all I wanted to present for now. And so, unless there's any other business, this is what I, Linda, go ahead. I just have one comment and I could be wrong, but I know we approved the amendments, but we are adopting a new version of the code. So would you like to make amendment or motions to adopt the 2020 national electric code since we've been on the 2017? I understand. I'm sorry. I thought that was all you were going to act on this evening was the amendments, but we can't unless we approve the code now, can we? Yeah. So I need a motion to approve the 2020 national electrical code from the floor. The motion has been made and seconded. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? Thank you. I was going to call for a discussion from the public, but it appears that there's no one from the public present. Let the minutes show. New business for the beard. Madam secretary, you had some new business or you have some things with respect to nomination of new officers? I don't know. You guys discuss it. We are one, you know, two months away from January. Do we want to? No. I mean, I don't know if you want to do that vote for a possible two meetings. There are several members that... Nope. You're muted, Don. He's making the vote. We've been using Zoom for years, you know, you just... Sorry. There are several board members, including myself, whose terms expire at the end of this year. And that's... Yeah. I'll wait until next year. I assume that we'll be having meetings more regularly than we have been, at least for a period of time to discuss the UIEC, IBC. Yes. So out of the three of you members, have you decided if you're going to just carry us so that we might know if you're going to reapply to the board? That would be Don, Dave, who's not here, and Jerry. I'm stepping down. I'm not reapplying. All right. Okay. Good to know. I think I... I think I've applied. Great. Okay. I delivered my write-up to the city clerk's office yesterday and not done the day when somebody came and I presented it to him for better or I have no knowledge, but I did request to continue. Good to know. Thank you. That's all I have. One business from... Well, I'm sorry. Don, go ahead. No, I was just going to say, are there new business or comments from board members? Yeah, kind of a question, Blossom. So when we do the adoption of the larger amendments, that's, you know, it's like 80 sheets or something like that. Is there an efficient way that we have in mind and boards that are great if we have an individual code question, right? That's what they're kind of inherently kind of designed for. But to go through all those amendments, how is it that that works? Because if we were doing that in this kind of format, my gosh, we'd all be a thousand by the time we got through it. We, the last time we approved the amendments on the code, we took it as a lump. We discussed them all and approved them, as I recall, Linda, correct me if I'm wrong, but we approved them all in a single motion. Yeah, that's what we ended up doing. There was discussion on, okay, let's part it out to this and this and this, but there were so many. I think we reviewed them all, or you all did, and then make one big blast of emotion. Yes, I think, oops, hold on. Would it work well if they were disseminated? Obviously, they'll be disseminated in advance if you put out group emails to each other, just, you know, you probably not gonna have comments on the vast majority of things, but there might be, let's say one out of five things you have either a concern about, a question about, or something of that nature, but it's sort of a broadcast email work. It has to be discussed on the record, Andy. It can't be discussed solely between members. Gotcha, so even though all members would be involved on the criminal chat, it has to be in a meeting forum when it's discussed. A little record. You know, Andrew, I just wanted to let you know that this amendment, these amendments, I didn't give you much notice, and I apologize. We were kind of in a crunch and we spent too much time waiting for training and then it never happened. So we were kind of delayed on this, so I apologize. But I guarantee you, when you guys see those amendments for the building code and the others, I'm gonna give you plenty of time to look at these things. I'm gonna give you at least a month, if more, you can, you know, because it takes time to read them and understand them. So I will send those out to you so that you can read them, formulate your questions, and then when we have our meeting, hopefully we can manage the questions in an efficient manner in a public setting, public hearing, like Don mentioned. So, I mean, I don't know how to make it shorter or run faster, and it is difficult to do it on a radio conference like this. I agree with you. It's gonna be not fun, but we have to do it. And so the best I can do is send all of the amendments as we propose, give you guys a chance to read them, and then go from there when we go to our meeting. Hopefully we can answer the questions you guys have and then proceed from there. Have your comments from your business from the board? I believe we decided to see who gets re-appointed and what new members may be coming in and then look for installation of new officers after the first of the year. I assume we'll be having, do you know, Blas, if we'll be having a December meeting or are you ready to start discussing in December for the next meeting? I don't plan to have a meeting in December unless you guys want one. Well, if we're ready to start discussing the codes, then it would be January. Right, I think, well, the building codes, we do have the building codes are available to me once and that the changes have not been published yet. So the changes are nice because then we know exactly what those changes are, that those are not available at this time. So it'll be sometime next year. Thank you, Blas. Any other new business or comments from members of the board? Mr. London, glad to have you aboard. Mr. leaders, thank you for meeting coming tonight. Good to see you. Even if it appears that this will be the last time that we see you. Yeah, possibly so. Good luck. Thank you all for attending the meeting. I appreciate it. As always, we look to you for guidance and your approval means a lot to us. The next one is going to take a little more time. So I'm just hoping I hope it goes smoothly. And if I don't hear from you guys between now and next year, have a happy holidays and stay safe out there. I'm always in trouble with building inspection on one thing or another Blas, but I guess I would call for a motion. I'll make a motion to adjourn this meeting of November the 4th, 2020 of the city of what month, Master Board of Appeals. Do I have a second? I second. I was in favor of I say aye. Aye. Opposed? So moved. Thanks everybody for coming. Thank you very much. Yes, sir. Thanks, Matt. So have a good night, everybody.