 Austin, Texas. It's theCUBE, covering OpenStack Summit 2016. Brought to you by the OpenStack Foundation and headline sponsors Red Hat and Cisco. Now here are your hosts, Stu Miniman and Brian Graceley. Welcome back to theCUBE. I'm Stu Miniman here with Brian Graceley. We're into two of three of our live broadcast here from the OpenStack Summit in Austin, Texas. Back to Austin where it all began. Really happy to have back in the program. Jonathan Bryce and Mark Collier both with the OpenStack Foundation. Gentlemen, Jonathan, you did the keynote yesterday. Mark, you did the keynote today. Thanks so much for joining us and thank you to the Foundation for helping to bring theCUBE here. We love this community. It's always a lot of fun, good conference. So thank you. It's good to have you guys here producing live content during our event. We appreciate it, thank you. Yeah, and we call this part of our open source tour. Everything that we produce, there's no firewall to log in. Our content's creative common, so take it, use it, do cool things with it. We're amazed at what the community can do when you put stuff out there just like OpenStack. I never thought I'd become an open licensing geek in my life. Somehow I've accidentally learned about a lot of licensing things, but creative commons is a cool thing. All right, so Mark, let's start with you. You just had the keynote this morning. A lot of cool things going on. Any kind of key takeaways you want to share with the audience? Yeah, I think that one of the things that sort of happened through the maturity of any project in OpenStack as well is that in the beginning, your head's down. You're just like, how do we make it work? What is it going to solve for? Compute storage networking is a pretty specific set of things, but it was a lot of hard work. Networking was really hard, and we got Neutron to a good place in the last year or so. And now you're starting to realize, okay, well, how are people actually using it? Well, we know they're using it with other technologies. We kind of always designed it so you can plug in storage drivers and networking drivers. So it's kind of designed to be pluggable, but thinking about an even broader context, like what does this kind of lamp stack look like in the cloud era? And it's always about the users, right? They'll tell us how they're using it, right? They don't really care where the different components come from. If you can mix different things together as a recipe and make something more valuable and solve a problem, that's what you're going to do. So that happened with lamp stack. Now we're seeing it happening in cloud, and a lot of it, of course, is about containers. But what I was excited about today is we went beyond just like, okay, we're going to talk about Docker containers or something that's buzzwords and we're actually going to see demos. We're going to see what it could do for you. I think a lot of people were really excited about the demo that Alex Polvy did, because he showed you can do live upgrades and the sort of healing and thinking about OpenStack as an application. It's kind of frees your mind a little bit to think about, okay, well, there's tools for managing applications. Managing OpenStack is a thing everyone is trying to do better all the time if they're running it. Oh, Kubernetes is an application management tool. What if we actually used it in that way? And the fact they were able to do that in just a few weeks of kind of to knock out a prototype and now they're here working with the Kola community, which is one of the OpenStack projects related to containers. It's just an awesome week to see people turn something that's kind of an idea or just a buzzword into something that can be really useful pretty quickly. Yeah, it feels like an interesting week. I mean, I was at the second one, you guys were obviously at the first one. Back then it was people literally sitting on the floor kind of writing code as we went. Now it's much, much bigger, bigger thoughts. You've got customers talking about how it's changing their business. But it feels like this week, you made sort of a concerted effort to say, hey, OpenStack has a place and then it has a place by itself and then it has a place working with a lot of these other projects. Is that the next big step in where you're sort of driving the OpenStack community? It's, you're going to do what you do really well, but we also have to partner, we have to collaborate really well. Is that a theme you think we'll see continuing going forward? Absolutely. The job that we have at the Foundation, we're a pretty small team inside of this massive community and the main job- It's 10% of the team. It is literally, we have just over 20 people at the OpenStack Foundation and 50,000 community members. And so our number one job is really, we think kind of making connections and facilitating discussion and communication and knowledge sharing across all of that community. And so the topics that we talk about, of course Mark and I are incredibly brilliant. The topics that we talk about are not just things- And humble. They're not just things that we sit down and we're like, what is the vision that we want to lay out for OpenStack? Almost everything that we put out there over the last couple of days has come from real-world use cases and the feedback that we're getting from users. And we have users that are at really early stages of looking at OpenStack, that are kind of in their first production deployment that have started to lay it out across their entire enterprise and others that are really pushing the boundaries of what's possible. And I think that it's a huge benefit that we have in our role where we get to hear from all of them. And then we kind of have to decide what do we think are the important directions within the industry and what do we think are the trends within OpenStack that everybody should be aware of? And yeah, I think working with other communities is a big one. I also think that I talked about diversity yesterday across industries and across the world. If you look at the users that we had speak, we had users and developers from Europe, from North America, from Asia. We had them doing bare metal workloads, virtualization containers, cloud native frameworks. It's incredible to see all of these use cases. And so our number one job I think is really sort of highlight that so that everybody understands what's possible and where the leading edge is kind of pointing. So the last couple of years we've been talking kind of about the maturity. There was last year a big discussion about kind of the big 10 and what was core. We're still releasing every six months, that drumbeat. I'm curious as kind of maturity goes up and the number of projects has sprawled, how do you look at managing that? Are there some projects where every six months it's kind of minor stuff and some that we have more rapid development but any changes in just kind of the general thought of how we should think about the release cycle, people managing those upgrades and that. I think yeah, there's a couple of thoughts on that. First of all, just upgrades in general have come so far and it's always been a pain point and there's been steady progress but we're finally getting to the point where upgrades are really realistic for teams in a reasonable time frame if that's what they want to do but in terms of each individual project there's very active development every six months and I don't see that changing in terms of the six month cycle but to your point or question I guess some of the work might be in the area of stabilization, usability, reliability which maybe don't show up as kind of check box features so in that sense it might seem like okay well this particular project they don't have a hundred new features this cycle is it slowing down? It's really, it's active development but it's driven very much by users. People have been running OpenStack at scale for two or three years now. They know exactly what they wanted to see in Liberty and Mataka and now going forward to Newton and Otaka I believe is the next. Ocata. Let's get that right. If only I worked at the foundation. Anyway, yeah. I'm working on sharing that information. Getting it over here. Yeah, so anyway we're just, we're seeing it is true that there's more of a focus on you know scalability and reliability because those are things that you know just really you get the luxury of focusing on once you've really hit the baseline in terms of compute storage and networking and you know we talk about being an integration engine well that's about identifying the points of integration, those API contracts if you will with all these different pieces of the stack. So now we get the luxury of kind of fine-tuning the user experience piece. Yeah. I just one other point you know the release cycle is something that always gets discussed and the community does review you know six months the right time or should we do feature base but I think that you know if you look at over a course of time in software there's going to be some chunk of work that gets done and the release cycle is really about how much of that do you want to have to consume at once and you know for with an OpenStack the community which includes users that participate in these discussions has continued to have a preference for having smaller chunks of change to consume at a time versus waiting two years and having a massive you know set of change that is honestly a lot harder to manage. You know at the same time we've seen a lot of maturity in the commercial ecosystem to provide support for long-term in place deployments of OpenStack but so I think you know it always gets discussed but right now I think we're going to kind of continue on that track. Yeah. Yesterday during your keynote AT&T was on stage and they were talking about not only you know what they do with OpenStack but you know we have other parts of challenges to deal with and they were talking about we've developed this software where we've developed this software. Do you guys ever sort of step back and go you know regardless of what OpenStack does we were able to get non-open source companies you know HP and Cisco and EMC to write code. You've got companies like AT&T that were always very close like this just created this movement that made these huge entities as well as the community become part of it. Do you ever think about that and go how in the world did we make that happen? It's probably the single biggest thing that is just amazing about the way the world's moving now. Like no company no matter how big they are really feels anymore they can just dictate you know technology direction. They used to be the Microsofts of the world and the IT world that you know just looking at the consumption side you know whether it's AT&T or Walmart or whatever. They want to be a part of a community and that is a huge sea change. I mean and I think it's not just them but it's indicative that if a company that big realizes this is the best way to do it collaboratively then there's no excuse for any other company to do it that way. And it's interesting that you recognize that you know back at Rackspace Mark and I were both at Rackspace when we launched OpenStack Mark was really the guy at Rackspace that kind of pushed this concept of OpenStack and that we should do this and he started doing that. You know we're here in Austin where it all started and you think back to early 2010 when you were going around pitching different people inside of Rackspace. Back then you know it was not a hugely popular idea within certain circles of Rackspace to start with but you know he kind of laid out it was very he had a lot of foresight to see what was going to happen in software in general Am I blushing? I'm not sure. But he laid out you know basically like this is the way that the industry is going to go and this is how companies like Rackspace and others can have a much bigger impact. But I think even yeah you know if you look at what that has really led to with even things like if you look at most of these projects that are out there now Apache 2 licensed you go back to 2009, 2010 that was not necessarily the automatic license of choice for new projects. Yeah I actually think the Apache 2 being the default is one of the sort of unreported undiscovered things that you know I think OpenStack has some part in take some credit for that kind of trend and it's just it's very business friendly. It's you know the old sort of dichotomy that people had of like open source is bad is anti-business or it's all just you know socialism or whatever. You know people realize okay that's not really the real world the real world is open source and business go well together really well. There would be no Facebook without open source there would be no Twitter without open source like these are businesses open source made impossible and so Apache is a really nice license again I'm getting I don't know how I became a license tonight. There was no big fan. Yeah but I mean it lays a framework for collaboration between competitors and that has been something that in a lot of industries has been done through standards bodies and because we're seeing this kind of shift and this comfort with like you said these companies that they might go work on a networking storage protocol standard or AT&T works with other telcos on a mobile radio standard but now we're actually seeing them do that in the open with code rather than standards bodies for months and months and I think it's really really interesting and really important. So I'm wondering if you can comment a little bit on the business side of things. So you know everybody always looks at you know how do I make you know money off open source take the Linux example we said you know Red Hat's done quite well but you know we wouldn't have Google if it wasn't for Linux I mean Linux is ubiquitous it's everywhere so you know so many things run it's integral part of what we're doing here at OpenStack. One of the analyst firms put out and they said you know we're neighborhood of you know between a billion and two billion dollars worth of you know revenue associated with it are we looking at this right you know I wonder will OpenStack be like Linux that pieces up and become ubiquitous and therefore it drives solutions that I won't think of as OpenStack or and how much is you know OpenStack you know revenue. Well before we answer that I just wanted to throw out a shout out for Jason Seats who was actually very instrumental in Rack's face and planting the seed in a lot of people's minds that open source was a good way to go but I just wanted to give him a shout out because he's moved on and he's now investing with tech stars so he's doing all kinds of other stuff now but if you ever get a chance to interview Jason Seats. Now you answered this other question. Well so it is really interesting when you sort of change completely how the technology gets developed I think that you ultimately will change how the technology gets operated and consumed and there's often a lag I think you know when you mentioned Linux for instance when Linux came out the world of operating system software was commercial you bought a license from a company you worked with that company when Linux started what you saw was a lot of companies that tried to sell you Linux software. They tried to sell you a Linux operating system because that's what they had been done with Unix and OS2 and Windows and everything and eventually people realized that really Linux is an enabling technology for higher level services and you have to figure out how to run it how to operate it most importantly how to take it and build something else with it. In the early days of OpenStack we saw a number of companies that had a similar model which is we're going to take code from upstream and give it to you and try to find a way to charge around that specific process. That ended up not being an incredibly successful business model and what you see now are people who are adding value around the upstream code either they run it as a service they run it as hosted private cloud, public cloud they provide services for integration with all of the other systems like you were talking about earlier that you need to tie into if you're an AT&T or an SAP and ultimately I think that where a lot of this open technology will end up is that we'll see especially with large organizations more and more of those skills that used to be concentrated in software companies ending up in the organizations of the large users and we see that Walmart, Comcast, again AT&T they have all hired up teams of OpenStack developers you know not just operators but OpenStack developers because they see that this is strategic to their business over the long term. So you know again I think you change how the technology gets developed over time the consumption model and the business model around it changes quite a bit as well and I would say we're probably halfway through that with OpenStack you know five and a half years in and I think that there's going to be there's going to continue to be a lot of change and a lot of opportunity for people to to kind of find new ways to tie it into higher level services. And just to add on to that I think Boris from Morantis did give a keynote yesterday made a really good point it's like forget the number he said nine tenths of cloud is operations or something like that and the point is just really important because we focus on the technology and the software and OpenStack is software so that's what people want to talk about but when you think about like how difficult it is to you know how much of a cloud is operations you need to know how to operate it so it as a company that's looking to make money on it you need to either help people by training them how to operate it which is one of the things Morantis did early on they're still doing or you need to operate it for them and so because the bits of software are you know one tenth of the challenge and the nine tenths is operations and that knowledge if you think about the monetization and the opportunity to make money more on operations which is both a thing you offer as a service if it's hosted private cloud or different models or you're doing training and consulting to help people with the operations or being like level two but it's not like your tier two support when there's a bug yeah you want that too but it's mainly hey I'm having trouble operating cloud is a living thing it's a bunch of services it's effectively microservices is kind of where it's going with all the different OpenStack services and that's part of where the Red Hat Linux analogy breaks down because it's just a different world to operate Linux on one machine it wasn't really about operations you installed it and you ran it if there's a bug you had a bug but with the cloud it's much more about this distributed system you're completely right we often say cloud isn't a destination it's a operations model at Wikibon we actually put out a forecast that said kind of in the infrastructure space I think it's about $300 billion worth of operational expenses out there and the transformation of cloud is going to take about half of that and either bake it into the platforms offload it to someone else it's not the old outsourcing of my mess or less it's about transformational and really allowing me to focus on kind of my business the application and what's going on. I wish I heard that stat before I spoke today that's a really good stat. We're always looking for great data points like that. So I know we're going to wrap up you guys are very very busy this week I want to commend you on something you know technology is a fantastic industry to work in we get I mean we're spoiled with a lot of things we get to do there's some dark sides of technology we've got some communities that sometimes are hostile we've got some technology that happens where we fork things off the open stack community has always been incredibly diverse incredibly open to people very very welcoming you never hear about sort of you know some of the really nasty things and you guys should be really commended for that I think what you've done is really important regardless of the technology regardless of how much money building that as a community you guys should be incredibly proud of that. Thank you I appreciate that we take it really seriously and I mean that's really special thank you. So we talked to Heidi Joy yesterday about the user survey so that's a great metric of where the community is just you know since you're with the foundation for those that didn't make it to the summit you know share some of the key points things that you guys are really excited about and you know to echo what Brian said congratulations for such a small group I mean a Herculean effort to leverage the community get things I mean you know big party tonight for the first time you know we'll put together with the ecosystem and everything so what are the things that you'd really like to highlight for people? Well you know we've talked about we've thrown out a lot of stats in the last couple of days of keynotes 7000 or actually over 7600 now I think so our largest summit yet huge diversity in terms of the geographies that are represented and that is one of the things that I love to see is like you said you know people coming in new people coming in and participating the user survey this time around was the biggest one that we have done and we had I think 1100 different organizations that responded the thing that was probably really interesting that I don't know if she went into this or how much of this is in the report necessarily but the user survey that we did six months ago and this user survey there was only about 30% overlap so there were only about 30% of people who filled out last time that took it again and so that shows how it just continues to expand the pool of people but what was interesting was that there was a lot of consistency in the trends and Mark pointed that out this morning you know a lot of other technologies being integrated into OpenStack there are a few key components that are in almost every cloud Nova, Cinder, Glantz, Keystone and so I think you know it's really cool to see how that core is maturing people are adopting it putting it in production and then using that to expand and integrate with a lot of other things. All right, Jonathan Bryce, Mark Collier with OpenStack Foundation thank you again for helping to bring the cube here and we'll be right back with more coverage here from OpenStack Summit 2016 in Austin you're watching the cube. It's always.