 I didn't bring my rubber boots, Gallant. I should have brought my rubber boots. You want rubber boots? Yeah. Yes! Yeah. They matched the floor. Yeah. There you go. Thank you. So I've been doing it for like eight years now, spinning paintings. So I have a pretty good understanding of like what I'm doing, you know? Yeah, yeah. I've gotten to a point where it's almost like a scientific method where I'll do everything the same and I'll just tweak one aspect of it, like maybe the height of the swing trough or it's the speed for like everything else is the same, the same pattern of colors, same speed, like whatever it is, I just change one thing. And so in that way, I've like kind of demonstrated that like I have control. It's not just all like random. Yeah. But it's still totally all random. So you mentioned the scientific method. And that is so interesting to me because this is art, but this is, it's kind of science first a little bit. No? Because you've got, you've got an apparatus here that you've engineered and you've got a couple of different apparatuses actually. I mean, it's science at play. Like it's not, it's not serious science. Like they're simple machines. The most complicated thing is like the chaos and the fluid dynamics. Is a pendulum complicated? No, like that's a simple equation. Is centrifugal motion complicated? No, it's a pretty simple thing. But the results of the liquid paint interacting with those machines can be quite outstanding. And there's kind of that mystery, which I like. If you see the piece on its own, without the context of me explaining it with the machine and the performance and all that, if you just see it like out of context, there's kind of like, oh, how is this made? How is this created? It looks like it just kind of naturally occurred and I really liked that. And then, but then it all- And it kind of did, right? Yeah, it did kind of naturally, yeah. It's nature. And then I'm just kind of intersect like the hand of the artist just intersecting briefly to like deploy the swing trough. Deciding when to start and deciding when to stop and what colors to put in. Like that's where the artistry happens. Okay, so you're kind of saying that you're, it's a little bit out of your hands, right? Totally. So what was in your control was building the whole apparatus and setting up the artwork to happen. Yeah. And then you kind of let go. Yeah, it's like, yeah, there's the parameters in which I set up an arena for chaos to occur and then I let go. It's not just like physically letting go, it's also just like letting go on kind of a more spiritual level. Like I'm letting go of control. I'm relinquishing my ego. I'm not painting it really. It's like, it's totally like hands off. Yeah. That literally the paint is just like flying through the air. So are you an artist of the machinery or are you an artist of the final products? I mean, yeah, both. This thing is like more like my main tool and for like a traditional artist, their main tool would be like a paintbrush. This just happens to be what my tool looks like and I've developed upon that with like the swinging troughs and like the pendulums and whatnot. No art is ever original, right? Because everything builds upon what came before it and like, we could never say that art, our ideas are completely original. Like we, you know, nobody exists in a vacuum and everything like, you know, is appropriated from something, from this, from that, whatever, like there was that whole performance art movement where it wasn't even about the art per se, but it was about like how the art is made and this full big presentation and like performance and how the art itself is even made. And like you kind of blurs the lines between what is the art actually? Like does the art come before, like in the process of making it or is the art like the actual finished project once the people have all walked away from it, right? So, which is kind of like what you're doing, really. But I think that the fact that you're transparent about your process, it sells the story of your art, right? Yeah, and that is the story. You know, like this is real for me, like the process is real. And like that's why I share, because that is my story. Ultimately, I think people like that. I think people like the story behind something. Like, you know, whether it's a painting or whether it's a product that you're selling, like we're the creators, right? So I think it's really exciting for people to understand what this product is through the lens of the creator, that whoever it was that created it. Because you have more trust and faith in it, ultimately. And I think in terms of like the art component, I don't think it's art until the viewer is there, until it's shared. And that's why I'm really keen on performance art because it closes that barrier. And I don't load my work with meaning. I'm like, oh, like these colors are about this. And like it really means this for me. Like there's a little bit of that. And like, but I'm not gonna fake it. Like it's not, that's not really my truth. But other people connect with it in that way. And I really wanna encourage that. And so I kind of keep it void of meaning a little bit. So it's the sharing component where the art happens. And I think a lot of the meaning happens. And in that way, I do rely on my audience to give the work meaning. I feel like if people kind of understood what art can do and that it's like the starting of a story and then it's wherever you can go with that as the viewer. Yeah, it's inspirational and rich life. And like, yes, it inspires me, but it's like more in somebody that I don't even know. And they're inspired in their own life for whatever reason, like maybe they're an artist and they wanna keep painting, or maybe they do something different, but like they're inspired. And I think that's a really amazing thing that art can do. I mean, it's abstract art. The thoughts are kind of abstract. If we could really talk about it and like write it down, we would, but maybe we wouldn't paint it then. Yeah, exactly. We're painting it because it needs to be painted. It's only communicated through that medium. So it's kind of like the separate language. Absolutely, yeah. It picks up where a language leaves off and fails, right? I have so much respect for artists, right? And I think when I really try to articulate why I have respect for artists, I think it's because artists stick with something regardless of whatever happens, right? Like you said you've been at this for eight years. So what we're seeing here is the product of like experimentation for eight years, essentially. Yes. And it's not that common that people will have that kind of grit. And so when you see somebody stick with something and stick with it and stick with it and figure it out and adjust and like work on something until it's amazing, I think that characteristic is so inspiring. What made you continue this for eight years? I like that it's like my own path. Like it's a unique path and I've always been a little bit different. I'm dyslexic, so I always kind of had to go about things a little bit differently in school and like learning. And so it's very true to me to do it differently. At the beginning, the reason why I started the Spin Painting was just in virtue of doing that, just to be different. And that was where it began and ended. It was like, I'm gonna do something different just to be different. And also it's like I'm mining my soul. Like I'm finding out who I am. Like every time I do an art show or make a painting and I'm peeling away the layers of like the onion, really tapping into like, what's your essence? What's your DNA? Who really are you? And if you can really successfully do that, then you win. You're self-actualized. Yeah, and nobody can tell you shit. Like nobody can tell you anything. Like nobody can tell you anything because you're you. And like then you're providing the world with something that no one else can provide, you know? And there's a lot of things in our culture push us towards conformity and stuff. And I have to, this is the only path for me. It's my only truth and that's why I do it. So you mentioned that you're dyslexic. And we've been talking about school. So did you do well in school? Or what was your school? I struggled. I struggled all the way through A++ and art, you know? But everyone else is like, okay, here's your reading homework and I would be okay. I have to like sound out every single word and then I read it and then I don't know what happened. So there's pros and cons. Like I'm gonna puzzles and thinking about things with three dimensions. I'll see a B and it'll look like a D or P or Q. It's like literally spinning in three dimensions. Oh wow. Yeah, and like that's like an R can be an F. It's just because they look kind of similar. So like everything's like dancing on the page for me. But then I get to like this kind of stuff and like it totally makes sense to me. And so like in this world, you know, in paint world, I'm fluent and like a speed reader, you know? So good. This is a language that works for me and I'm like very fortunate that I found that. One of the first things you said is that it's chaos. But you said specifically that you're trying to make something clean amongst the chaos and you're trying to like have a refined sort of, you're trying to make the paint do refined things. Even though you have such a lack of control, ultimately. Yes. And so I just find that so interesting because your whole aesthetic is very free and really like you have to relinquish the control as you said. So do you think that part of the attraction to your work is that people are able to perceive that you've been able to somehow find a balance between chaos and control. And the result is a very free, it's just very free, it's free-ness. Like you've captured free-ness amongst chaos here in your paintings. Well, gee, thanks. Yeah, no, it's like a dance between chaos and order. And I try to weave like a line through the chaos and that's the artistry of like striking that balance. It's a little presumptuous to say that but like the colors are flowing through me. Like it's like I'm just like a vehicle for them. They're their own thing. This is the universe playing out and I kind of like help it along, it cooks it along and if people see that then awesome. I love it. I love it.