 Good evening, I'm Susan Donius the executive for legislative archives presidential libraries and museum services here at the National Archives It's my pleasure to welcome you to this this evening to the National Archives for this very special program in honor of Women's History Month Tonight we are hosting a conversation with Dr. Diana Carlin Anita McBride and Nancy Pagan Smith co-authors of the new book remember the first ladies the legacies of Americans Excuse me of America's history-making women The three authors have written and lectured extensively on the lady on first ladies and are founding members of the first ladies Association for research and education also known as Flair Archivist of the United States Dr. Colleen Shogan will moderate the discussion and a book signing will follow the program Remember the first ladies traces the evolution of the role of first lady throughout American history From its origins under Martha Washington through our current first lady Dr. Jill Biden It examines how the first ladies have been uniquely positioned to influence American society politics diplomacy and life in the White House With both biographical and thematic chapters the book showcases the influence these women had on such topics as civil rights political campaigns Communication strategies and on the White House itself. It's a truly remarkable read and I look forward to tonight's discussion. I Now like to introduce tonight's panelist Anita McBride Executive in residence at the Center for Congressional and Presidential Studies in the School of Public Affairs at American University She directs programming and national conferences on the legacies of first ladies and their historical influence on politics policy and diplomacy She also served as first lady Laura Borser's chief of staff Dr. Diana Carlin is professor emerita of communication at St. Louis University and a retired professor of Communication studies at the University of Kansas. She has also taught courses and is written about first ladies for over 30 years Next we have Nancy Keegan Smith who is an alum of the National Archives She had a nearly 40-year career with the agency starting as an archivist at the LBJ Presidential Library and retiring as the director of the Presidential Materials Division in 2012 She is co-editor of the book Modern First Ladies their documentary legacy and Moderating tonight's discussion. We have the Archivist of the United States Dr. Colleen Shogan She is the 11th archivist and notably the first woman to lead the National Archives She is also a presidential scholar who has written extensively on first ladies and women in politics. I Hope you enjoy tonight's program Please join me in welcoming Diana Carlin Anita McBride and Nancy Keegan Smith and over to you and Dr. Shogan Thanks Susan so much for that great introduction and happy women's history month to everyone very excited to be here and Excited to have these women talking about their extraordinary book and talking about one of my favorite subjects first ladies I love talking about first ladies and their role in telling the story of Presidents and really the story of American history But I'm gonna start this out in very basic question You know there's been a lot of books written about first ladies and first ladies have written a lot of books about themselves So tell us why did you decide at this moment in time? Why did you decide the three of you to get together and write this book? Well, it all started when a publisher of textbooks contacted me about an idea for a new textbook and I had been teaching a course or a unit in a course about first ladies for 30 years And I had to cobble things together and so I suggested a textbook on first ladies and they jumped at it And I said but I can't do this by myself This is too big a project and I have two people in mind these two and when I told them who they were they said Yeah, we could handle having three of you So it started as a textbook and we wrote a preliminary version of the textbook and we tested it with five university classes Rewrote the textbook which came out in August and it's called us first ladies Making history and leaving legacies and our first editor was so entranced with this book She said it doesn't read like a textbook and our students said the same thing. It's more like a novel Said we need to turn this into a trade book a general public book because the public general public doesn't learn this in their history classes and There are a lot of books, but none of them do what we have done which is really look at the role itself And what are those threads that connect Martha to Jill Biden? Military families for one thing and where has it changed and where did they impact the presidency the American history? And so it's a little different approach than any other book out there. I don't know what the two of you want to add but Yeah, I think what's been very validating for us in this Book Colleen is the response that we got from students was why did we never learn this before maybe just some of the students That are in here that have seen the textbook would feel that way Actually a student gave us the title for the book, which was great, which we were happy To adopt so it is again. It was a great exercise. I think the the publisher was a Little bit concerned. Maybe a little worry. How would three authors work together? They hadn't really seen that two authors is is more normal But it was such a collaborative process between the three of us because we each brought a different level of expertise or background or Knowledge to the process Diana wrote textbooks books before Nancy is of course written books She had access to primary source materials here. She knew how to get them I had the experience of working in the White House three different times and having that front row seat to working directly for a first lady and Really deepening my appreciation For the role and what how these women have served our country and this is what we included in this book and I think that What Anita and Diana have said make our books so unique because our backgrounds are so unique and When we would write someone would say well, I don't know if that's right You know and we do the iteration or check the history or someone would know the Policy side and so you see all those blended the career civil servant the archival records the working for a first lady. I knew a first lady the academic background and it all blended and We call ourselves the twasters What do you say to the critics and there may not be any critics here in the audience tonight I suspect that most people here are fans of first ladies and they wouldn't have come out to hear you talk about it But there are critics and naysayers who say, you know first ladies aren't that important. They're not elected officials They don't occupy actually even a paid position in the federal government So what do you say to those people that say you why would you write a book about first ladies when it's not even a real role? In the American government. Well, that's what makes it so powerful. This is the minute that the president is sworn in At that inauguration platform an automatic powerful platform is handed also To his spouse the question is how do they use it? How do they deploy their influence? There's a lot of influence that comes with this position and you really are freed up by not having a position Description each person gets to rewrite how they want to Use this role and it has evolved over time and and It is again. I think the last point I'll make on this before I turn over to My colleagues here is if we talk about inclusive history in our country How could we not include the stories of these women? because it is very profound how they have made contributions over the 246 years of our country's existence, I will say that it it Really is partly Nara the first conference on first ladies ever was convened by Betty Ford in 1984 at the Ford Museum and she and Rosalind Carter Said something very important They said we want to be studied as individuals and not as a partner we want to be studied on our own for our own contributions and then at that conference and Slightly before at the University of Texas. There was a professor named loose gold who we all call the modern Pioneer of first lady's studies and he did something very courageous He actually wrote a book on Lady Bird Johnson and the environment That was the first book that was ever written on a first lady and a substantive issue And I happened to know him and he told me he said Nancy I got more comments from male Professors who said aren't you sort of doing a trivial Topic because he had written on Theodore Roosevelt. He was surprised winning historian and now they're looking at him and going You're writing on Mrs. Johnson and the environment and he goes no It's you who are thinking trivially because he said if it were a man and That man did what she did in the environment. You would think a book was well worth it. So Dr. Gold Persevere did Lady Bird Johnson in the environment the conference in 1984 and it started the whole evolution That first lady's studies was something you could really do. Yeah, and you know, it's to the point Why we did this book? There are so many stories that have not been told The reason that people don't think they're important is that you know There's been more written about their clothes or the dinners they host and not the substantive issues And we really dug into what those substantive issues were, you know for instance Sarah Pope was getting letters from the mothers of soldiers in the Mexican War and You know say pleading with her husband to do something about this and it's like now I'm going to support my husband. I believe in his policy and other first ladies Encourage certain issues for their husbands to follow change their husbands minds on some issues made them aware of it So we didn't have a press corps that was sitting in the White House Like in the early days of the Republic. So we've relied on you know finding archival Information or letters, you know that other people Martha and George burned everything So, you know piecing together some of that early history hasn't been easy But that was part of the motivation that goes back to your first question Because there is that attitude and it's important for us to know where these women fit into US history Let's start at the beginning because as you mentioned earlier The book has a lot of virtues, but it has a chronology. So there's a nice institutional development Of the office of first lady and and how the role developed, but there's also thematic chapters So we can talk a little bit about both. Let's start at the beginning What are some of the precedents that were set by some of the early first ladies like Martha Washington Abigail Adams? Dolly Madison that we still might see today in the be familiar with with the role of first lady. Well First I will say the nation has been extremely lucky to have those three women Starting the role of first lady. They all love their husbands. They had very warm relationships They came from very different backgrounds, but they and they had no rule No role no rule book that told them what to do They weren't in the Constitution and by the way, they weren't given the vote or even mentioned women weren't mentioned in the Constitution so you've got to realize that the early first ladies did everything sort of in spite of the political atmosphere, but From the very beginning George saw that he needed Martha's health He was both head of the government and head of state for ceremonial functions and Martha was well equipped to be a social Hostess and so that world of social Hostessing which is a lot more important than it sounds fell to Martha and they followed the British system with levies and dinners and receptions and Bringing people in because they thought it was very important for the new government for the new country to be able to meet its head and Martha would wear American clothes and was very gracious then we go to We go to Abigail who comes from a very different world Martha one of the negative things about Martha is that she did bring enslaved workers into the president's house Abigail who had been her second lady was in vehemently against slavery and ardent abolitionists But she really liked Martha and respected the dignity with which Martha did and she basically Followed Martha's social pattern as hostess what Abigail the difference with Abigail was that she was John's political confidant and really got into policy and She very importantly influenced the the role way before it's been done Really until the 20th century Abigail would write letters to friends on policy issues political issues and asked them to send them to a publisher Or she would send it to the publisher and say could you please play you know print this but don't use my name So that was amazing And so she did that she was very involved in patronage Like the night before John Adams left office. She wanted to see the list of judges he wanted and She was also very involved in giving him not so good advice in through the alien sedition acts Which basically was passed because they didn't want criticism She didn't want criticism of John that was getting these first ladies are In front of the factious environment. It's growing more factious. Some people were in favor of Britain Some people were in favor of French Abigail Adams hated criticism of John They passed those acts which basically said you could be arrested if you criticize the government and Thomas Jefferson Basically the vice president wouldn't happen today. He took up and went back to Monticello. He just left He was so infuriated but she did and In gave John incredibly good advice and then we get to Dolly who is really the social hostess of the mostess and today really Very much has left her stamp on Receptions Dolly took the more formal reception Broadened it and broadened it so much that they were called squeezes people would squeeze into the room for her receptions for Dolly's receptions Pictured this James Manson Dark suit short person very quiet Dolly turban French fabrics low-cut dress Very gracious hardly a man never met her that did not like her And so they were quite a couple but what she did that was so important was she created bipartisan Receptions to this day that holds and those bipartisan receptions are a way that presidents can get policy passed with people who are enemies sometimes and people who they disagree with on Diplomacy and so she facilitated this warm atmosphere and she was so popular that When she died it was Washington's first state funeral and Taylor said president Taylor did the Eulogy and said that we have lost. I'm not quoting word for word, but lost our first lady and That term is Started then and it didn't really become well used to years later But so those three first ladies were Evolutionary in terms of affecting the role in terms of having a role Not walking away from a role doing the social function and also getting very involved in in the Political world I think in today's terms we consider them influencers for their They really were Now if we fast forward a little bit to the modern articulation of the first lady There's at least Two important developments the development of the office of first lady Which most people did not exist until really fairly recent times And then also the ability of the first lady to communicate directly with the American public gives speeches You know be able to actually be out there speaking on her own terms giving her own Speeches about initiatives or other things going on in the country when did those two developments happen and what first ladies are Responsible for those well I'll take the first piece sort of the evolution of the role and the structure around the role first lady because again Remember looking at it through the lens that it's still not an official position to this day But yet over time there is structure that has been placed around the position staff Budget and resources, but for many many years in fact not until 1901 What's Edith Roosevelt was the first to have the first official position to her? Office which was a social secretary. You know she came in to the White House five rambunctious children Really overwhelmed of course with all of the social obligations There were big changes that were going to be made to the White House again This was a total renovation of the White House a building of an executive office now. We call the West Wing And so she hired Isabelle Hagner She really got the the president the government to agree to have a federally paid You know position to do this to help her with the social events and also to help with Media she would she was very strategic on photos that she wanted released about her and her family again like Abigail Placing what she wanted in the media, but that's the first Position official position that was created as as you heard Nancy Mention you know some of our early first ladies in first families that had enslaved workers on the White House I think was the first nine or eleven first families had enslaved workers But this was the first professional position and that started the ball kind of rolling as time moved on Lou Hoover paid three people out of her own pocket to do her work and most first ladies were working up in the residence They were working off their beds. They were working in their in their bedrooms They were working in spaces that were in their residence. There was no office physical office for them As time marched on Jackie Kennedy was the first to hire an assistant for press relations And that was a position that was really under the social secretary So it was still connected to the social role Lady Burr Johnson the first to bring in the first professional Journalist in that role as press secretary. She also Fulfilled the role of an office director as well. She was so close to both the Johnson She had worked to President Johnson. She had a keen sense of How to get the the word out get the message out. She was very skilled in her role in communications But it wasn't until Mrs. Rosalind Carter that we really had was until 1978 the past of the White House Personalization a White House personnel authorization act that actually gave a budget structure staffing Associated with the office of First Lady all the staff are still considered Staff for the president in the United States assigned to the First Lady again to your point college is not the First Lady He's not the elected official But that structure is to this day still very much largely in place the office of First Lady Again as we we are grateful to Rosalind Carter for for her vision to do that and what was so interesting About that she expanded the staff. She had a policy director Which was a new position formal position to the office But what was so intriguing about this is well She is fighting for more staff and to expand the office of First Lady her husband Jimmy Carter Ran on a platform of cutting the White House staff, but still to the point of your first question What influence do they have clearly a lot? well, I Just want to add to what Anita said that Rosalind Carter in her biography said that that was the biggest fight she ever had with her Jimmy Yeah, and there was these some years of marriage. Yeah. Yeah, and that was the biggest fight because He didn't want to give her money But then he would come home and tell her how hard she worked and he couldn't believe it Do and oh, can you go to Latin America? Can you go so she said that was the biggest? Yeah, yeah To the other side of the question of communication piece and being the communication professor, I guess I'll take that one In many ways first ladies if you look at women's suffrage You look at the women's history and women taking to the platform They were a little bit behind until the 1830s women did not speak in public And when the Grimke sisters started speaking about abolition and women's rights They were threatening to burn down buildings Congregational ministers wrote this big document about how unnatural it was for a woman to be speaking in public so the first ladies traditionally it was just women in general didn't do that type of communication and Politically these first ladies had to be very very careful because They didn't have a legal role about what they did in terms of politics or anything else Martha Washington, however, is on record that as giving a speech an impromptu speech When she was on her way to New York, which is where our first capital was thanking the people who had come out to greet her along the way from Mount Vernon and it was covered by a newspaper so she did that and then she never said another public word again and it really wasn't until We get to Lou Henry Hoover In the 1930s that you begin to have first ladies speaking publicly She had a she used the radio She's the first first lady to actually give a speech over the radio And she found it to be such a great way of communicating that she had a practice studio put into the White House So she gave a lot of addresses Florence Harding was invited to give a speech to a Republican women's group But she didn't really know if she should be doing that or not She kind of took the role of she would make sure that she was being covered So any event she had out on the White House lawn She didn't make sure the press came to cover it and then she'd sort of talked to them off the record But she still didn't think even at that point that she should be talking So Lou starts giving all of these speeches and then we of course get to Eleanor who then takes it to other levels We have best stepping back Mamie stepping back and not doing as much with public speeches and then we get to Jackie Kennedy Who when she hired that press secretary said give them as little as possible that do it politely And so, you know, there was this interesting control. So so then by the time you get to Lady Bird You're really having Lady Bird out there giving speeches all over. She has a professional press person But even before that Julia Grant gave an actual press statement She was really the first lady to actually make an official press statement And it was that she did not intend to be a fashion dictator Made that very clear, but she also fed the media and Created the image of a first family. She wanted them to know about the whole family And so then Edith Roosevelt picked some of that up. So you you saw this whole evolution and and Lady Bird, you know Eleanor and Lady Bird were probably the two Especially with all of the news conferences that Eleanor called immediately after becoming first lady and Having women journalists that you began to see more activity and now it's expected You know if a first lady isn't doing a lot everybody's going what's going on? But they've been very savvy especially you began seeing an evolution and I'll give Pat Nixon credit for some of this with popular culture inviting Sesame Street characters to the White House and then Nancy Reagan making a cameo appearance on a television show different strokes to promote her drug Policy and so we now see them using popular culture Using television Michelle Obama then gets into social media So the modern first lady the current first lady has to do all of those things So as communication has changed in our society the first ladies have begun adapting and once Women got the right full right to vote in in 1920 Then you began seeing a lot more activity and it was more possible You mentioned Nancy Reagan with the just say no campaign We also talked a little bit about Lady Bird and her environmentalism So we're very familiar with first ladies having policy initiatives that are sort of ancillary or supportive The president's agenda. When did that practice start? Well, I would say It it really took off with Eleanor I mean there were first ladies like Martha who supported the military, but actually having issues was really the activism of Eleanor Roosevelt and Eleanor Roosevelt was involved in so many policy issues and wrote her my day column And I don't know how the woman slept the three of us studied her and you know She'd be in Guadalcanal and then she'd come home and write her my day column And then she go see soldiers and so she was just the basis for Policy, but she didn't focus on one thing. Okay Jackie focused on the White House and She came in she had been a young girl She had seen the White House and wasn't impressed and she traveled all over Europe And she felt that the United States should have something comparable that We were proud of and that would speak well for the United States Which was basically supportive of Kennedy's foreign policy right in the evolving role of the United States and of course That Kennedy staff didn't like it Then they thought it it made her It emphasized her rich Issue and to elitist and she just persevered you can see pictures of her from the Kennedy Library Just being on the floor drawing diagrams It's really fascinating if you all haven't if you've seen her White House tour, which is amazing look at the Section of the audio visual before she does the White House tour because she's not together at all I mean, she's nervous. She's smoking one cigarette after another She's asking the interviewer, you know, should I say this? Should I and then she comes on and she's Amazing so She did the White House then Lady Bird With London's help and Lady Bird told me in an interview. I did with her I said so did Lyndon sort of tell you what he wanted you to do and she said, oh, no Nancy He supported me on what I wanted to do. So she picked head start She picked civil rights. She felt very strongly about civil rights and she picked her true love growing up, you know Not having a mother at a very young age. She loved East Texas and she loved the environment and beautification and then we go to Pat Nixon volunteerism and Serving as a formal liaison with foreign countries Betty Ford health ERA Rosalind Carter Rosalind Carter mental health and Immunization and so many other things Nancy Reagan just say no Barbara Bush literacy and education Hillary Clinton health care and women's rights Laura Bush writes for Afghan women girls Education and literacy Michelle Obama childhood obesity Military families and military families are throughout there, you know, that is a common thing Education and fighting racism and Melania Trump be best and Dr. Biden Education and her new women's health initiatives. So since then they have Normally picked topics the interesting thing about policy is it reflects their journey of their heart their desires No one tells the first lady or if they do they're not too intelligent What they should choose and I say that because the Obama staff in the beginning we're trying to manage Michelle Obama and Manage your schedule and she's like No one's managing my schedule and I'm gonna decide what issues I want to pick and That I will say, you know in first ladies Jackie Kennedy asked Lady Virg Johnson to carry on the committee for her White House restoration efforts, but normally Normally first ladies picked the desire of their heart and we're much better off for that because there's all that passion going Authentic, but it's also complimentary to what the Administration and their presidents are the president is trying to accomplish generally. I mean there's very few times Where it diverges, but it is to support the goals of the administration after all that is the elected official But Nancy's right when it's personal on a heart. It's authentic And just comes off with a lot more credibility You have a really interesting chapter in the book. This is one of your thematic chapters on More controversial topics. In fact, you have a couple chapters. So you cover the issue of slavery We've talked a little bit about that you cover the issue of civil rights and then also women's rights and You write in the book you contend that first ladies are change makers. They can serve as change makers even when it comes to More divisive issues that aren't necessarily a lot of the things that you mentioned Nancy are you more unifying issues? But these are the more controversial topics So tell us a little bit about about these Areas and how you think first ladies have served as change makers when it comes to some of these topics Well, both Anita and Nancy have mentioned that some of our early if you look at our early president except for John Adams they were southern presidents for the most part and they were slaveholders and Martha's from a negative perspective in terms of change and influence on the White House When they were in both New York and Philadelphia Martha brought their enslaved workers to to the president's home and and part of it was done for a cost-saving reason Congress just didn't give them enough money to manage things as Anita said, you know They're paying for things out of their own pocket all of these early presidents left with not a whole lot of money Because they were having to supplement everything that they were getting so there was this tradition that started that it was acceptable For the presidents to bring enslaved workers then into the White House except for John and Abigail Adams And even John Quincy when his niece was living with them Hit Louisa Catherine Adams is our first foreign born first lady Her father was American Citizen her mother was English and her father was a slaveholder and so her mother's Family owned slaves in what was originally the colonies And so they brought some of those workers to John Quincy Adams White House Which was just an would have been anathema to To Abigail and and also it didn't fit with John Quincy's philosophy. So in that respect, you know, they they Contributed to that institutionalization Then you had first ladies starting really with Mary Lincoln who had also grown up in a slaveholding household And there her family had freed their slaves some of her half brothers fought for the Confederacy Some of her family fought for the Union But Mary was very sympathetic to this issue and was very supportive of the Emancipation Proclamation She even took money of her own to help support some of the freed slaves who were in the DC area Because her dressmaker was a freed woman and so she became aware of some of these issues Lucy Hayes was an abolitionist from the very beginning and Got her husband to defend some of the runaway enslaved workers So so you went from, you know slaveholders bringing their enslaved workers to somebody like a Lucy Hayes who'd been an abolitionist and Then still in kind of post civil war era doing some of these things even Julia Grant who'd grown up in Missouri on it It wasn't really a plantation. It's a it was a farm with 20 enslaved workers But she realized during reconstruction that she had to do something to try to heal the country And so she was you know said anyone who wants to come to any of my receptions can and She expected the people at the gates to let in Lacks and they didn't and they did not tell her they were defying her orders She found out later and was kind of surprised that they had defied her orders but she did something as simple as the China that she ordered had the state flower of every state and she had them intermingled at North and South States To show once again. We were one country and we were unified so she even understood You know symbolic kind of rhetorical acts could do that And then probably one of the ones who made one of the biggest statements controversial was Lou Henry Hooter There was one African-American congressman from Illinois Oscar-depriest and the first ladies have always had this tradition of having teas for congressional spouses There's all wives back then And she invited Jesse to priests to one of these teas and it was very carefully orchestrated So that all the cabinet women wives and the other wives who were there would have accepted that The Hoover's also had refused to sign any restrictive covenants when they bought a home in DC So this was this was their belief and Lou caught Unbelievable flak especially from the southern press and you had to give Hoover credit because he knew this was going to hurt him With southern Republicans, but he supported her all the way So there was a case that then I think helped pave the way for lady for Eleanor Roosevelt to do what she did Especially on civil rights and Nancy you can take it Well Eleanor, I mean here's Eleanor again Was just amazing and she was much more liberal than FDR was okay FDR was liberal, but he was the politician. He was worried about losing southern Democrats And so she wanted him to support abolitionist Abolition of the poll tax. No, she Supported Annie lynching legislation. No, she Compared racism to fascism for what she she got a lot of criticism on that She when he interred the Japanese She wrote an article which she was going to publish and clearly FDR Must have gotten to her which said it's always easier not to make a mistake Than correct a mistake. That was the title of the article. So, you know what she thought about that and her famous thing which is so Amazing and I highly recommend that you look at Mary and Anderson singing at the Lincoln Memorial because it's hard to look at without actually getting emotional but Famous opera singer Mary and Anderson the DIR turns her down Eleanor as a member writes them. I'm sorry I refuse to be a member of you anymore and Arranges with the Department of Interior and Harold Ickes to have a huge ceremony where Mary and Anderson sings on in front of the Lincoln Memorial most people do not realize that was 70,000 people it was the biggest civil rights occurrence before the I dream speech and If you just watch I highly recommend watching that audio visual because Diana need and I say, you know, I've watched a lot But it still makes you cry if you show it to an audience She's sure to have to show it and collect yourself. It's so moving and So that was symptomatic One of the things she did she went down to Birmingham for a conference and In Birmingham They the white sat on one side and the black sat on another side and Eleanor sat with her friend I think Mary MacLeod Was there and So a policeman comes up to her and says you can't sit there So she moves her chair to the middle of the aisle She won't sit with the whites, but she's making her statement and a very Important journalist who was black said the most important thing to realize about Eleanor Is she had empathy? She had true empathy Now we get to Lady Bird Johnson. Oh and Eleanor risked her life. No doubt about it The KKK had a twenty five thousand dollar Bounty on her Then we get to Lady Bird Johnson Southern, you know, you can't have two First ladies who were raised in more different environments Southwestern Southern always believed in civil rights And in fact got the name Lady Bird from playing with three black Playmates, but they didn't think it was politically acceptable to say that so they attributed the name to her nurse, but She takes a trip in October of 1964 which was planned by three women Liz Carpenter Lady Bird Johnson and best sable four days October 6th through 9th eight states to The whistle-stop campaign very dangerous to speak to the South and as Lady Bird says in language they could understand Telling them you have to accept this embrace this this cannot be an albatross over your neck and so She it ended up Lyndon Johnson in that campaign did carry Three southern states when they thought the South was gonna bolt the Democratic Party So there are two examples and now I'm handing it over to Anita. Sure. Thank you, Nancy I think in the book in the chapter on civil rights We also highlight the first ladies who connected literacy and education to civil rights and This I'll speak to just a few of them here, but Barbara Bush was one in the 1980 Campaign when her husband was running for the nomination to be the Republican presidential candidate of course lost to Ronald Reagan But Barbara Bush is jogging around Memorial Park in Houston where they lived really thinking about if this were to come to He became president. What would my issue be? What would I focus on and She decided on literacy because she felt that was a root cause for so many things that were problematic in our nation for ills of our nation people who were uneducated I'm able to Get get a job unable to really fully participate in civic life In our country, so she was devoted to the topic of literacy and as first lady ultimately Within the first couple of months of becoming first lady in 1989 She established the Barbara Bush Foundation for family literacy still in existence I mean that's that's a legacy and even in her eight years as second lady She did thousands of events for literacy She wrote two books actually that her dogs were the authors of the books and all those proceeds Right see Fred and Millie all those proceeds went to literacy projects Around the country Laura Bush have the same devotion to literacy and education she was a elementary school teacher in in lower-income neighborhoods in Dallas and Austin and Really saw the profound need and the disparities in Education she later went on to become a librarian thinking that's a way she can tackle to the disparities and in Literacy and in education for children and brought that with her to the White House She was a big proponent for education reform both as first lady of Texas and as first lady of the United States Mrs. Obama when again a big focus on education education disparities and then also gave a remarkable speech in 2016 at the Democratic National Convention Where she uttered a statement that really in Culling will know this from her time at the White House Historical Association and She told the audience you know how remarkable it was for her to have been standing there in this role as first lady That nothing in her background Would have led her here But she said I wake up in a building every morning that was built by slaves and our Website at the White House Historical Association Crashed because people were looking for that background and that information Which really had not been a story that was fully developed or told and so it inspired a Entire initiative that we spent the team that was under Colleen at the Historical Association Research the slavery in the president's neighborhood that told the story and we're still uncovering Information and still putting that up on on the website for people to peel back the layers and really make that connection To the difficult stories of how our country and even the institutions that house our our presidents and our leaders How they were built so throughout our you know our our history as my you know colleagues here have have Noted there have been acts of courage and one little anecdote that I'll share with you that really stuck with me You know when we did the research I wrote the section on Mamie Eisenhower What was Mamie Eisenhower that? Integrated one of our most beloved cherished traditions in our country. It's just the White House Easter egg roll 1953 is a new first lady. She saw little black children on the other side of the fence peering in while other children are playing on the lawn gathering, you know eggs and rolling eggs and and By 1954 the next Easter egg roll. She presided over it was integrated And those are small acts, but they're really profoundly important So I have two more questions here, and then we're gonna take some questions from the audience So I have to ask this because we're here at the National Archives, but tell The audience about the role that the National Archives and Presidential Libraries played in your research for the book Wonderful wonderful wonderful, of course. I'm I'm your poster girl for the archives and having Work with the first ladies papers throughout my career 44 years having the wonderful ability of getting to know and work with Mrs. Johnson and Lou Gould, I fell in love with first ladies and how important they are and Y'all there are the neatest materials in the libraries the to watch Barbara Bush give the Wellesley speech, which is one of the top a hundred speeches Is amazing or to watch Hillary Clinton in Beijing say women's rights are human rights and human rights are women's rights is amazing To find Mrs. Johnson made a statement to me in this interview I did with her and she told me Jackie Kennedy at this tea She had Mrs. Johnson over to November 26th gave her Or sent her a seven-page handwritten letter asking her to do Preservation that letter had never been found. We found it. It was seven pages of Jackie Kennedy's carefully handwritten Notes with a legal assessment by a very famous lawyer named Clark Clifford To hear Mrs. Johnson on the diaries, which you now have available talk about November 22nd started out to be a beautiful day And to hear Jackie Kennedy crying on the phone to Lyndon Johnson when she thanks him for a letter This is in December of 1963 and she says I have one more letter in your hand, Mr. President than I do in Jax to Hear see Weed to see Eleanor Roosevelt's statement on Pearl Harbor. She made the statement before FDR did these women are Incredible and the presidential libraries have this Incredible trove of materials and it's it's almost fun to just try and find a new jewel That someone hasn't discovered the other thing that's important about what the archives has is sometimes it tells you You know the popular conception is the Johnson's didn't get along with the Kennedys, okay Lyndon Johnson didn't get along with RFK, but there is nothing in the files to support That Jackie Kennedy did not get along with President or Mrs. Johnson And in fact, there's a lot of material that does so it's fun to be your own detective And go it's what I'm reading right or wrong and what does the historical record really say? photos one photo can Change so many views when Barbara Bush held up the baby Baby with AIDS it sent a message to people. Oh, maybe I can do that Maybe that's safe. Well, it was a period of time that the stigma was so profound People felt being in the same room with someone with AIDS that you can catch and it was a deadly disease obviously So you're right that those images they understood the power of images they the materials the National Archives has and the presidential libraries often make you feel like a fly on the wall Yeah, and you are seeing history occur and or reading someone's private thoughts because I will say this first lady's right in a much more revealing Capacity than the precedent who's always thinking about how is history going to interpret this, you know So it's more you you you get much more of a feeling of the personality and and you get to trace the development of something In the chapter about first ladies in communication where we take there were three speeches. There was a study done I was included in it People who taught rhetoric public address at the turn of the century Asking us to identify the top 100 speeches of the 20th century. We each got to nominate either 10 or 15 there are four by first ladies to by Eleanor Roosevelt on the Declaration of Human Rights that she did with the UN after she was first lady Barbara Bush's commencement speech at Wellesley and Hillary Clinton's Beijing speech So without the archival records We couldn't have had some insights I spent two weeks at the Bush library and dug through all of Barbara's papers and Found how that speech was originally just going to be a general commencement address and then the controversy Over her speaking or some of the women at Wellesley protested her The speech it changes so you go through the speechwriter files and you see here It's just going to use her stock commencement address and now we've got this controversy and she's telling them how to address it And they're now changing the speech and they're bringing in a presidential speechwriter to help with it Not just her staff if you didn't have what was in the archives You would not have that vision of how this adapted and how they fit into that environment And how she came out with just an incredible speech It's my last question. I have to ask this because I asked this a lot of times With people, you know, someday we are going to have a woman who will be in in the White House And we will then have a first gentleman who will serve in this role Do you think that the role will change at all on the day when that happens? Or do you think it will actually be very similar to what it is now? Well, you know, it's interesting We have a couple of things to look at as examples on how this could adapt and how it could change first of all We have a lot of female governors in our country with male spouses Who are some are continuing to do their full-time jobs and and provide a supportive role to the governor We also have the example of the first second gentleman and It's been really intriguing and interesting to watch how he has adapted to the role or the role is adapted to him, you know He first came here and was went to work at Georgetown University as a professor. He is a background He's a lawyer and entertainment Entertainment lawyer a very lucrative job that he left in California But had came here and started teaching at Georgetown in law But he's also now recently been handed an initiative by the administration to run the anti-semitism initiative Which is the piece the point person for the administration on this as a Jewish man? And if you've watched any of these interviews and seen them on TV is quite knowledgeable passionate and articulate and representing the administration in a very Deep and engaging way But his interviews have also been illustrative when asked about how he feels he's fulfilling the role He said first and foremost, I'm here to support the vice president. That's a very traditional response So it indicates to me and to us that no matter who was in the position male or female Ultimately at the end of the day their primary responsibility is doing whatever they can For the president to be successful Or in this case the vice president while also still maintaining a portfolio of ideas or issues Initiatives in which they are engaged You know we came close to this happening right twice in 2008 when Hillary Clinton was running for the nomination Democratic nomination. What if Bill Clinton had become the first gentleman? He was already president of the United States. How do you sort of divorce all those responsibilities you had and become Head of the social operation. I think he would have I think he would have liked it She toyed with what she Mrs. Clinton toyed with what? Responsibility she would hand to him because of the depth of his knowledge make him an ambassador at large and then of course in 2016 it got even that much closer So I think you know I'm a firm believers that the position adapts to the occupant and the occupant will adapt to the position and Yeah, once again history shows us in this position that there have been presidents who were widowers Yeah, presidents who were bachelors you had presidents whose wives were ill and other people took on right at hostess piece And we don't include them in our book We only talk about the wives because they're the ones who have the real influence But I don't think the first first gentleman is going to have to decide what type of flowers are there There will be people on the staff who can do that just like that was all done when the president didn't have a wife To be the full-time hostess. So I think some of that will change Less engaged with the some of the social things But I don't think that gets them out of the diplomacy Of the social side and I think that will be a very important piece also Absolutely, I think one thing I will be interested in and I know one thing that Diana And Anita and I were amazed at is the modern first ladies have left such a legacy in terms of their Foundations and need to mention Mrs. Bush's literacy raised over a hundred million dollars Lady Bird Johnson's Wildflower Center. They they've all Left a legacy that keeps on giving Laura Bush Betty Ford Roslyn Roslyn Carter So I would be very interested because they're following their passion and they Don't see their job as stopping when they get out of the door I don't know, you know that that passion is something that will necessarily Translate will just have to see but it is is in somewhat a very nurturing trans, you know a very nurturing instinct that But we were so surprised we did that for the textbook one of the chapters We lost in the trade book, but when we saw all of the foundations, we're just sitting around going. Oh my goodness Yeah, yeah, and one of the things a lot of the students commented on was that you hear more about the first ladies After a presidency oftentimes then you do the presidents themselves And a lot of that is because the issues they took up were not political And they are things that have social impact that can continue and so they've had an easier time dealing with literacy breast cancer mental health whatever and and I think that you know once again you learn a lot from your students and the things They pick up on and I think that's an important piece. That's great. Do we have any questions from the audience right here? My questions is the thread that I heard throughout the entire Communications theme is clearly it was a switch from getting the word out To Containing the word in so long time ago. Your push was you got to push it out When did the switch start to occur to where there was more? Visibility that they were containing what got out versus Pressing to get out and then the second half of that is is there any correlation to the role Efforts shifting as women became more professional life oriented and therefore had that Strategic thinking capability everybody has been very intelligent, but there was definitely a concerted effort at some point to Strategize what the office would become What the office of first lady? Would become I think when there is recognition of how much value can be added But there were also times where a first ladies initiatives or interest Diverged from what the president or the administration was supporting one example You see Betty Ford Betty Ford was a big proponent of the ERA But so was Pat Nixon and so were some first ladies before that and first ladies who who followed yet that was not really a political imperative or in fact a bit of a concern for the Ford Administration and the people around the president, but Betty Ford would not be silenced Yeah, and she was an advocate and and a proponent I think I don't know where there are other examples that we want to add like that. I I think from the very beginning Martha had an excellent sense of what needed to remain in and what needed to be out She definitely had very strong political ideas And if you read Mount Vernon just did a new edition of all of her letters Even though she and George burned everything and there are only three letters that survived by falling behind a drawer in a desk Mm-hmm You read her letters to everybody else and she had opinions about easing things with great with the British She knew what she thought about the political opponents But she knew that was to stay in and what she did externally was very important So the image she created who she opened the house to he became ill right after he became president He had to have a cyst of some sort taken from his leg and she represented him At a funeral of one of the generals from the Revolutionary War Because she needed to show that the presidency continued that things were going on and that she was taking care of some of that So so there was this awareness of both the internal and external and Abigail with how she dealt with her letters dolly And and if you you know throughout the whole book you see that they they were very conscious Of those two levels of what you give out what you don't and like I said, Edith Roosevelt was a master at it And some of the other first ladies Florence Harding who loved publicity also knew where she had to start and stop so I think it's been with us from the very beginning It's just as the times changed and the way communication methods changed everything else. They've adapted Betty Ford would call it the media crucible She was always worried and first ladies who followed I know that White houses that I've worked in that First ladies were concerned anything that they said publicly would be seen as Opposite of what The president's belief might be Barbara Bush got into trouble with this when she said something about gun rights Against gun owners when it was a policy of the administration To protect gun owners So it's it is it is a bit of a tightrope that they walk which Contributes to part of your question kind of keeping you know the strategy of protecting what message is actually Going out because the last thing a first lady really wants to be at the end of the day Is a distraction from what the president and the West Wing are trying to accomplish that makes news And you don't want to be news for that reason But you know there and that's true. There are precedents who have used their wife Yeah, no doubt that FDR used Eleanor people would come complain to her and he says I can't control my Mrs You know and the same was true of Gerald Ford on ERA and he says talk to Betty And there are times when first ladies have found it They feel so strongly on an issue and this would be I'm thinking of Walter Jenkins Who was a very close aide to? London Johnson had been with him in senatorial years in August of 1964 is arrested in the Y MCA for a homosexual act and this was at a time where Where you know this could kill Lyndon Johnson in the campaign well The Johnson's were very very close to the Jenkins and Mrs. Johnson calls There's a classic telephone conversation runs 12 minutes long which the archives has and She calls up Lyndon and she says you know, I think we should offer Walter KLBJ manager and Lyndon's going no, I think you need you can hear him, you know No, he goes. I think you need to talk to Clifford and she goes honey I have and Then he says so quite Clifford's lawyer His other ace in the hole is Abe Fordis and they're going back and forth And he says well, I think you need to talk to a I have talked to a Thanks, this is okay. Well, I don't think this is a good idea. This is not Something I can do I do and she says well, I'll put out a statement. No, honey There's a lot of honeys in it. I don't want you putting out a statement Well to cut it down what she ends up doing after all of this is Mrs. Johnson runs writes a statement for the Washington Post she has an aide Personally take it over to Russ Wiggins who was the publisher at the time Russell Wiggins and it is supporting Walter Jenkins that he must have been under terrible stress and that she knows that the nation hopes that he will get well soon and all of that and You know, I don't know if Lyndon Johnson was hot that night or not But there's a direct example and there are direct examples with Melania Where you know Trump says no mass and she goes on TV doing You know, so certainly there are first ladies who have seen it as their strategic Yeah, so to differ but but but the the final thing and I hate to say this is That these women these men shows so well I mean when you look over the historical and evolutionary arc They have done such incredible things and it's amazing that none of none of them knew they were going to have this job Do we have any other we have one more question, okay? Hi a couple times at the beginning you mentioned that it's the first lady is not an official role Do you think it ever will be one? that's a great question and it's a question that I Remember war Bush being asked at the end of the administration if she thought the position, you know should should be paid and and she she said, you know at some point that may happen in the country, but I Have to tell you my personal thought on this is I think the minute you're on the federal payroll there's a different level of obligation a requirement of you and It's you're freed up from that by being the nation says Ronald Reagan called it the nation's biggest volunteer in this role and And you know, and I'm interested to hear what my colleagues say about this, but It is probably the most important Unofficial official role in our government and I see no reason to change to change it honestly Yeah, the beauty of the position is that it isn't Legislated it is not paid for and that gives whoever has his position You know touch man or women to do whatever they want with it And and we have one chapter we titled stepping back from activism And they have that right to do that, but they were still doing things in their own way And we make it really clear that the four women we talk about in that chapter We're still very active, but they did it on their terms And I would hate to see anybody locked into Feeling a certain obligation because of title Legislation money to do something that they really didn't have their hearts in because these women do what they it's in their heart And certainly dr. Biden would not be able to have her full-time External job as well as this and then a paid government Job so again that this the flexibility of this position has allowed it to adapt to a very Modern structure because she is working out outside the home. I think it I I could not agree more with Diana and Anita Ladyward Johnson called it a journey of the heart and that is why I think these First ladies have done such amazing things. No one's telling them. They have to do this They have to do that they have the freedom which a president doesn't because his Agendas often stay trolled by the crisis of the day to somewhat focus on the passions that they want to focus on So I think it would be you lose a lot. Yeah I want to thank everyone for coming this evening I want to give you two pieces of information before you leave first. We're all wearing our pins from From flair from the first ladies association for research and education flair has a great website If you want to learn more about the first ladies or the activities of flair You can find it online and all three are very active the National Archives is also a member of flair Thank you so much for coming Okay picture