 I want to begin with the report. Thanks. Awesome. Wonderful. So I'm calling to order the August 7th meeting of the African Heritage Reparation Assembly. This meeting is being recorded with the extension of chapter 20 of the act of 2021. This meeting will be conducted via remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via via phone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via telephone means. I almost am getting that by heart. Let's just make sure quickly that everybody can be heard. And I'll start with you, Dr. Rhodes. Are you able to hear us, Dr. Rhodes? I can see everyone, I can hear everyone. And Michelle, sometimes you go in and out. Oh, no. Yes, you are. That's not going to be fun. Is it happening frequently or? No. OK. If it starts to happen at any frequency, I may have to move locations unfortunately. So please let me know. Dr. Shabazz, can you hear us? Yes, I can. OK. And Ms. Bridges? Yes, I can. Excellent. And Jennifer and Pamela, you are able to hear us as well. Yes. OK. Wonderful. All right. So we do not have any attendees, but I'm going to call the first period of public comment because we'll have two, as always. And so just calling this period of public comment, I'll read the statement briefly during the public. Actually, I won't read it. I will wait to the second period when there may be an attendee and I will read it then to be more efficient. I have a hard stop at 12.30 to take my daughter to a doctor's appointment. So and thank you to everyone for your flexibility for meeting at a different time today. So I wanted to begin by first providing an update on some, providing an update on timing as well as some other pieces of the work that we've been doing here. So let me first pull up. OK. So for a variety of reasons, including additional time that I think we need to complete our deliberation on a variety of topics as well as for some other related matters for Irvin and I to have a chance to speak more with the finance department and the town manager, as well as for some other recommendations to have time to be worked out. I would like to move our publication of our final report and our presentation into September. Oh, my goodness. Do we have Alexis Reed? Oh, sorry. Hi, Alexis. Oh, so good to see you. Congratulations. How are you doing? I'm doing all right. I'd show you the baby, but we're a little. I see a hand. You're a little tied up. Yeah. Oh, God. I actually got to see pictures of the baby today at the coffee shop. So excited to have you here, Alexis. Thank you. So I've spoken with the town council president, who also, by the way, was encouraging us to consider moving it into September just for a variety of reasons. There are some major things coming through on the council, as well as I think this is a personal reason I'll share, that we will get more participation from the public in September than we will in August. It's August tends to be slow. So the dates that we have are September 11th and September 18th. Those are both regular meetings of the town council. At this point, they're both open. And we, after we get through this iteration, my plan is for us on the report later today and into tomorrow. OK, am I back? You're back now. OK, maybe I need to stay somewhat closer. So Mati and I are planning to send this committee as well as Jennifer and Pamela and town manager Backelman and our town council president, a draft report tomorrow as it stands. So this will be the draft based on all of the conversations that we have had as well as the conversation today. I am noticing that Matia is not here today and though we'll transcribe the meeting. So does anyone object to us giving ourselves a little more time and moving our publication date from August 21st to one of the dates a few days before the town council meeting in September? Without objection, no objection. No objection. I have a question. I have no objection. But all the information that you will be providing, you and Matia. To the parties you just mentioned, would you ensure that we have all of that to each member of it? Yes, absolutely. And prior to you giving it out first, is that? Yeah, so I think what you're saying is that you would like to see it as members prior to the town manager and Lynn receiving a copy of it. Am I hearing? Absolutely. OK, yeah, so we can definitely do that. And just in keeping in mind, I'll have actually this time, it will be very clear on the document that it's a draft. So we, because one of the concerns is we can't really control what the media does. So by sharing a draft of the report, we have to be clear that it is an iterative process that we're going through and that in order for us to make the necessary changes that we need to make, we do have to have it in a draft form. But that draft is always open to being changed between now and its final approval by this committee. OK, awesome. So any other objections, anything else in terms of timing? And then once Irv, I'm not sure if you saw Sean's email. He just sent an email like about a half an hour ago to the two of us. So once you've had a chance to take a look at that, we can figure out timing. But I think it will be important for us to meet, continue to meet, but to determine which date of the 2 September 11 through the 18th is a better date for the committee once we have a little more clarification from different folks. So what I was hoping we could do today is to continue our discussion on. There were a few things that I wanted to do. One is to continue our discussion on funding priorities. The last two meetings, we have discussed funding priorities. And I'd like for us to continue that discussion as well as to begin to look at and discuss how we would like to create a through line from the eligibility requirements that we've put forward to the rest of the report. So I think that's a discussion that we need to have to so that that it doesn't look like it was just sort of placed in the report without context. We really need to have it be relevant to Amherst and to the recommendations that we're making. So last week, we spoke about the funding priorities of youth programming and youth empowerment. And Matia transcribed the meeting. And so tomorrow, when you receive the draft, you'll see the language that that we have for the youth programming. We also began to speak about affordable housing just at the end of our meeting. And I gave a little update on the Ball Lane development or the formerly known as Ball Lane development in North Amherst. So I wanted to open that up. I'm going to share my screen really quickly. Just to Jennifer, if you might be able to give me access to share the screen sharing. Let's see. Pam was the host because she opened the meeting. Oh, sure. And Dr. Rhodes, I see your hand is up. Is that from is that? That's from earlier. OK, great. OK. Pam, why are you muted? All right. This looks like you should be a co-host now and should be able to respond to that. OK, great. Yep, so I just wanted to, again, review these specific use of funds questions that we had in the survey, not necessarily to value them, but to just, again, remember the categories. So we had buying or remodeling a house, renting a house, starting and improving a business, educational scholarships, symbolic acts, and cash payments. So we have determined youth programming as a funding priority and began to talk about housing. I'd like to continue that discussion, as well as to discuss whether we would like to include educational scholarships, business grants, and symbolic acts and cash payments in any circumstances. So the floor is open now for those discussions. And depending on where folks are at, we can start with housing. But if any of these areas are an area that you would like to bring forward, and again, now taking a look at the responses we received here, you can see that many of these, with renting a home, I think it was a little less popular cash payments, a little less popular. But for example, with cash payments, do we want to make a recommendation? Do we want to include cash payments as a funding priority in a particular instance? Like if you remember, Councillor Walker in our first listening session spoke about what it would be like if we had some sort of emergency fund that was available for folks who fell on hard times or who needed some assistance to make it through. And so is that something that we want to revisit as part of our discussions? So I'm going to take this down and open the floor and welcome any members to speak on any of these funding priorities. Ms. Bridges, are you unmuting to speak? No, OK. I think that I made it clear that I really want to focus in on the youth, especially through the recreation programs, after-school programs, et cetera. So it hits both recreation and education. As far as individual cash payments, I think we all know we have a high hurdle to jump over to do that. Yes, there are some individuals who I believe should have some cash payments. But I don't think we need to use a huge amount of time and effort going through that process. Now, people want to go through that process. And since this is going to be, hopefully, the successive group will be around for a long time, perhaps they would want to pursue this through the legislative process. But youth, as related to recreation is really big for me. And youth, as related to education, is really big for me. Housing is really, really important. And I think that, again, all three of these things, for me, goes back to what I said before, is that we use our funds in conjunction with other funds so that we use them in such a way that we're able to leverage our funds to be able to come up with programmatic goals and objectives rather than us running on our own. We're able to have more of an impact. We're able to induce other people to join in with us to town. And one of the refrains I've heard over and over again in the town is, hey, don't spend money and duplicate services that are already being presented. Add to them and make it additive. Absolutely. And I think that you outlined that in our last meeting really, really clearly. And that has been included in the language that we're developing for sort of the overall philosophy. The combination of what you and Dr. Shipaz contributed around that, I think, is really powerful as it's been developed. So that makes a lot of sense. Irv, can I just ask you a follow-up on housing? Because I have personally heard you speak to this a number of times and that I know you are just generally advocating for home ownership as opposed to or maybe in addition to rent being able to rent. So I'm curious if you think the report should focus specifically on ownership or is there some combination that you envision? Right. One, just as background and just so I'm all transparent here is that I have been working on an affordable housing program for a national basis for the last two years. It is now formed into where we have a managerial team and administrative team, a legal team, a mortgage banker, mortgage financing, and we're getting ready to launch nationally in September on a national fundraising platform. And the whole idea is that we're focused in upon home ownership on two levels, one for those who are below 80% of AMI and for those who are above 80% of AMI. And the reason for that is if when I look around, we look around the nation, the low income housing in terms of incentives and government support are supported way more than the one for incentives for those above 80% AMI. And what we see happening is that having that dichotomy above 80% AMI, we're talking about workforce housing. Workforce housing for teachers, fire people, police, hospitality workers, et cetera. And the reason for that is that that is the middle class. That middle class has been devastated. And the support for funding of that is not there. You can just look around our town and you can see that. And that can be generalized to the entire country. So what I look at when I talk about affordable housing is support for affordable housing for those below 80% and for those above 80%. And I'm talking about incentives that the town can provide, incentives to developers, incentives for home purchasers, et cetera. What we are focused upon is all across the board. And when I say all across the board, it's not only for new development, but it's also for buying up apartment buildings and turning them into home ownership opportunities. Via townhomes. And the reason for that is because across the country, large investors have purchased apartment buildings, raised the rents. And so now what you have is that we have a huge large segment of our population, both low income and workforce housing people, who are rent burden. I mean, they're spending more than 30% of their income on rent. And it's a tragedy across the country, a tragedy. And so we believe my group, my team, through available financing means and financial technology that we can relieve that problem. I seen here in Amherst that the problem is so severe that both groups are priced out. We in Amherst, we say there is a wealth gap. Well, it's obviously a wealth gap because we have huge amounts of money being spent on low income housing. And that is desirable. On the other hand, we're not doing the other part for the middle class housing. So what we're creating in this town, which is married nationwide, is a two class system. They're very wealthy and very poor. Anywhere I could go on them. But anyway, there you are. Yeah, thank you so much, Dr. Rhodes. It's really insightful. And so I think we can figure out how to take that and put it into our recommendations. One of the things that I keep thinking and coming back to is the amount that we will have each year, whether it's $50,000 or $100,000, we have to think about how we can stretch that money to impact not only the most amount of Black residents, but also to impact in meaningful ways. And so I was speaking with Jessica Ball Lane about down payments. And for that development, folks who are interested in purchasing homes there will be required to go through the same sort of process that anybody would. And that includes learning, going through the coursework for being a first time home buyer and having enough savings to use as a down payment. And then also being able to sustain the cost of living, utilities, and everything else that's involved in purchasing a home. So that was really helpful to get that context from her. Dr. Shabazz, you've been so patient. You're up. OK. I'm glad as we wind down our process to find myself once again in agreement with Dr. Rhodes, the I just would like to build upon his emphasis on prioritizing youth, young people. This town we're in is a college town. Its majority of its population throughout most of the year, as we know, is a youthful population, is between 16 and 25. And therefore, it makes perfect sense for a Repairative Justice program to really highlight the needs of Black youth in terms of the future of where we are going as a people. I would say as well, it's not just a youth empowerment center. We really ought to broaden out our thinking in this area to include scholarships, to include problems with our high school. We met with high school students. We know about the problems. I feel unfortunate time got away. We never were really to engage with the school committee and with the school. Of course, they were going through problems of their own in regards to LGBTQ and other kinds of equity issues. And so it just didn't work out as a good time to really try to engage with the school system about particularly the ways in which Black youth, African-American youth, the children of freed people, can be better supported in the school. But we can certainly highlight from our listening sessions and from our work many, many points. One of the things that was in the original reparations for Amherst report about issues that came up in their initial study and survey around the schools was the lack of the college going rate. The lack of the disparity in graduation rates of African-American youth to the general students graduating from Amherst Regional High School, but also the college going rates. There was a serious disparity. How can reparative justice help to address that? We can't close the wealth gap. We don't raise enough money here in Amherst to be able to close the wealth gap for all of the families of our Black youth here. But we can do things to better support them in the school in terms of taking more challenging college coursework. I don't like to just say AP. It can be honors coursework. It can be coursework in a variety of ways to support that. How can we better support our young people in terms of the counseling? I know when my child was there, the counseling services, particularly in trying to prepare and promote Black youth to go to college was deplorable. Was deplorable, okay? So how can we better support the efforts of the counseling staff there to know particular ways from the research-based literature, from the various expertise that's out there about how to promote the thinking of Black youth about going to college and the kinds of opportunities that are out there from the community college to the comprehensive tier one universities like UMass. This is something we can do. This is something we must do. So these are, I'd like to really just build out when we say youth, we're not just talking about their access to recreational programs and helping to pay their fees if they wanna be on the football team. Those are valid issues too, but I'm talking about some of the more serious things that have come up in our community that has been brought up in our community. Also, questions of helping to young people to know their rights, to know their rights and interactions with the police, to better foster their interactions with the community safety systems that we're trying to develop here with Crests and with other kinds of ways that we're trying to develop here in Amherst so that our young people are not the victims of racial profiling and are not the victims of interactions with law enforcement that seem disparate, even as happened this past year at UMass with a young person who veered off the instructions on the roads as we know about. So I just think there are ways in which we can try to better support our youth in a very broad sense, in a very broad way and that this can be done and must be done as part of our project. I will also, with the additional amount of time, I hope to have some thoughts for the committee to look at regarding peoplehood. It's more than just symbolic acts. That's how we refer to it in the survey, but it really has to do with how do we decolonize this town? How do we emancipate ourselves from mental slavery? Even where the chains of slavery, shadow slavery were ended in the 1860s, we understand that the mental enslavement of everybody, not just black people, but of everybody to racism and to a racial system of white supremacy is something we have not decolonized. We haven't broken away from in this town sufficiently from our curriculum in our schools, in our schools, as well as into the landscape, the built environment, the lack of any kinds of streets and markers and whatnot that indicate our presence and note our excellence in this town. So I will have time now to prepare a few comments on that, but I think digest the work that we've done over the last two years that hopefully we can tweak and we can reach consensus on. That's all I'll say at this point. Thank you. Thank you very much, Dr. Shabazz. And I just wanna come to Alexis. I did see Alexis, your hand came up and then went down. So I just wanna check in with you before going to Dr. Rhodes. Yeah, really quickly. I wanted to first thank Dr. Shabazz for saying that because I completely agree. And I guess I was just going to like sort of just piggyback off of that and like add mental health and conflicts resolution as well. But I don't, I think that he did a fine job of saying like reaching youth more generally. No, you make a good point. Thank you for adding that. What was that, Dr. Shabazz, in your response to Alexis? No, I just said yes, I agree. Thank you for adding that. The July 5th incident, how we can prevent things like that from happening, conflict resolution, how we can support in terms of mental health issues. I completely agree. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Alexis, for adding that and Dr. Shabazz. Dr. Rhodes. I wanted to briefly come back to my comments before in terms of housing. And I was particularly impacted by what you said about the ball lane and how they're going about doing that. One of the things that the company I'm associated with wishes to do is to eliminate the very information barrier that the company has over the last four years. Our company has a digital backbone that includes all available financing for housing from public sources, federal sources, private sources, accept your all-in-one digital framework. And the reason for doing that is that there is a disconnect and information to have available. So when you said they're going to require down payment, while there are programs around the country, including national ones that are both public and private that provide down payment assistance. And without knowing that, ball lane could go ahead and say, well, you gotta have a down payment. And the person doesn't even have an idea that there is available assistance there. And I guess the point is that sometimes local, we at the local level feel that we're doing everything possible, but we are lacking in the overall, lacking in overall information that can impact what we do locally. And that does not need to be, especially when it comes to African-Americans. Absolutely. Thank you for that, Dr. Rhodes. Yes, Alexis. Okay, I'm sorry. I just, I have to run, but I'm so sorry to like come in and go, but I just wanted to say bye. Thank you everyone for all your hard work. Baby says hi. Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, take care. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, see you. Bye. Bye. What did you say, Dr. Rhodes? I said that baby looks like it's not missing any meals. I bet it's not. Oh, that's good. Okay. So there's still four of us. Okay, good. So wonderful. Thank you for adding that, Dr. Rhodes. So just coming back then, I think we have quite a bit to contribute to the report around housing as well as the youth at this point. And I got the message, Dr. Rhodes, that about education and how that fits into it as well. What do we want to say in terms of business development? Business grants, do we want to make that a funding priority for the town, for the successor body? And what do we want to include in that recommendation? Well, we look around Amherst, in terms of the town of Amherst, the number of black-owned businesses is remarkably noticeable. And someone that has to do is with the ability to start businesses, to start a business when these knowledge, information, know how, and an entrepreneurial spirit. And if you do not have those things in places, it's really, really difficult. This town, as far as I am concerned, does not allow, does not have the entrepreneurial infrastructure for ordinary citizens to take advantage of. From entrepreneurship programs, through financing, through a legal framework, all those things that are necessary. And so you have to start somewhere here in Amherst. And for me, again, there are two levels to it. I want to, again, I would like to offer entrepreneurial programs to the youth. There are a number of different models out there, and I'm familiar with them, and have taught those entrepreneurial programs for kids three through high school, third grade through high school. Those are available, and I consider those to be incredibly fundamental to establishing an entrepreneurial culture in this town. And that has to happen. And that's something I, well, I'm working on now with certain people in town. And I'd like to see that happen. I'd like to see it integrated again in the schools. I'd like to see it integrated with the programs we're talking about in terms of recreation, because that's part of their charge. And then up again, the other level is for adults, the same kind of thing, not only just the ability to start a business, but also having the infrastructure that would allow people to be able to start a business from the legal to the financial. We do not have that in this town, and we need to have it in this town. And there are models for having, models for making that happen. So yes, that has to be for my two cents. We're in this society, it's a capitalistic society. It runs on people's ability to earn money. But it also runs on people's ability to go out and find new ways of doing things and offering that back to the public. And that needs to be bedrock here in this town. We do not have, especially again, for African-Americans, it's all for all levels, but for African-Americans not to have thriving black businesses in this town, except for one here in South Amherst. Yes, that's an embarrassment. Thanks, Dr. Rhodes. And I really appreciate the way that you've broken that down between the youth and just developing that culture of entrepreneurial spirit and also knowledge. And then the adults being able to have access to the resources that are required to start up a business as well as sustain and thrive, as you said. So I think that's a really great starting point and certainly ties in the youth piece, certainly ties in, as you said, with everything else we've been discussing around the youth. So that's great. Would Dr. Shabazz or Ms. Bridges like to add anything right now or Pamela to the discussion on business? Okay. Not at this time. Okay, so that was, there was the business and then there was, and we touched on it briefly, cash payments, if we are to include any discussion in our report regarding cash payments, it will have to include the need for special legislation. So we'll at least want to give the reader and the council the information that was provided to us by KP Law regarding what that legislative process would look like. But I would like to know if the committee has clarity yet around whether recommending that we pursue or that the town pursue that special legislation. And if there are particular instances where we see cash payments, cash payments clearly are the least, I think, popular for variety, for many people. That's not true for many people. They're sort of seen as the most challenging, I guess, is a better way of saying it. And we know that the special legislation would be needed for such a benefit to be made. So any discussion on that at this time? And do any members have strong feelings one way or another? Yes, Dr. Shabazz. Okay, so a couple of things. I think one is as part of our municipal plan, it really is to give to the town and to the successor group that we hope is created something of a roadmap on which to build the infrastructure of a Repairative Justice program. And so I do think we ought to, in the appendix, provide the KP law review that we ought to also comment on that in terms of what our research into the next steps to pursuing that, what are some of the challenges, what are some of the, as well as some of the benefits for doing so. On the challenge side, as I recall, the discussion was around number one, the fact that the town already has a queue of home rule measures that it is pursuing. I understand rank choice voting is one of them. I understand some other counselors have begun to throw up some other stuff for home rule legislation. And when our piece was brought up, then it was like, okay, well, there's a queue. So I don't know fully where that really stands and where we may stand in terms of having this in the queue, but that was one sort of challenge that came up. The other challenge that came up or consideration from my discussion with one of our legislators at the state level, is the idea that at the state level itself, the issue might be, well, why just grant this for Amherst if there are other municipalities looking into doing the same thing, i.e. Boston, i.e. Northampton, i.e. wherever else. And therefore, rather than approach it on a one by one basis and, okay, let's do it for Amherst now, the state may wanna have a conversation about whether to create a kind of statewide process similar to the Community Preservation Act, where any municipality wanting to do some type of direct cash benefit, reparative justice work would already be covered by the state level legislation. And to that I say, well, fine, but how can Amherst and how can our AHRA plan be a call to the state to initiate that statewide action in terms of some of the bills that are out there in terms of our own legislators perhaps proposing a bill to create a kind of statewide CPA type structure, Repairative Justice Act that could provide a statewide structure for any municipality wanting to do a direct cash benefit type Repairative Justice action. So I do think we need to report on our findings, report on the challenges as well as the benefits. We do know there are instances where we have encountered issues that it might very well be that the town would want to support in some way with direct funds, issues of to repair specific injustices. I think of the Coleman family. I think of whatever is happening there in terms of the discussions with Amherst College. How might it help if the town also said we would put up so much funding for a home or for something to be made right in terms of the Coleman family. Likewise, we haven't discussed specifics of how our first African-American full-time faculty member at UMass who was so ill-treated in this town whose reception in this, trying to find a home in this town. Speaking of Dr. Edwin Driver, we still have not directly considered what might be an appropriate way to on the part of this town, but one cannot rule out some type of cash benefit as a part of that process, even if it's only in whatever it might be, however modest or significant it might be. So I think there are benefits to having that option on the table for the reparative justice process. And I think there are clearly challenges with how to move forward with respect to state government giving us the legal cover and the legal support to do this so that we would not then be in jeopardy of counter of the lawsuits for us to do this type of thing. So I rather to be able to do it on a legal framework given that there is state law that does not allow municipalities to make those kind of direct cash payments to any citizens for any reasons, unless it's declared a public purpose. So those are some of my thoughts and reactions to that issue. Thank you, Dr. Shabazz. That was really helpful. And I think that our recommendation can be a discussion that outlines those benefits, the challenges and provide information that we've collected in our work. And then also to have a discussion and that recommendation around solutions. One of the things I think a lot about is coalition building and how there is usually a load star and Amherst in this case can be the load star for this particular matter to get it put into the wider discussion and then we can recommend that the town build coalitions with other communities and community organizations who are interested in this. I think one of my goals for this report is that we are modeling a process and sort of a roadmap as you said Dr. Shabazz for repair but also that we are normalizing this, that it's not shocking for one to think that having a reparative justice plan for a community's black residents, it's not shocking. It's sort of normalizing that this is a long overdue and that we're simply providing this roadmap. So those are some of my thoughts. It's 12, 24 and Jennifer asked that we approve minutes that are on the agenda before we will have to call a second public comment period, excuse me. So I'm gonna just grab the agenda here to make sure I have, I'm going to move that we approve the meeting minutes from April 10th, 2023, April 24th 2023, May 8th, 2023 and May 22nd, 2023. Is there a second? Second. Second. Thank you. Any discussion on that, Dr. Shabazz seconded that motion. I'm gonna go to a vote, Dr. Rhodes. Yes. Ms. Bridges. Yes. Dr. Shabazz. Yes. I am also an aye, so those meeting minutes are approved and that's excellent. So I'm going to call our second period of public comment and we do, I think it's just Matia who has called in. So I don't see anyone else in the attendees but there is a second period of public comment open. All right. So just to reiterate the plan here then we'll get because I accidentally forgot to inform Matia that we were meeting today at 1130 as much as we are in communication. I thought I had communicated that. So she missed half of the meeting. So Pamela, if it's possible for you to send me the Zoom link so that she can have the meeting transcribed as soon as possible, that would be great. So we'll work on getting new committee members and only to committee members and Pamela and Jennifer at this time. This is gonna be our first like substantive, I think draft based on all of the discussions that we've had all of the various communications that I and others have been having. So it will be important for everybody to review it carefully and to be prepared the areas that we still have yet to discuss. Pamela. One of our recommendations that we lost you for a minute. Okay, how about now? You got me back? Okay, you froze for a little while. Okay, did you hear, where did I, where did I freeze Ms. Bridges? What was the last thing you heard? Pamela, you froze for me at getting Matia a transcript. That's where you froze for me. Okay, thank you. Okay, what I was saying is this draft that we're going to share with you is probably the first really substantive draft and it will be important for us all to carefully review it before our next meeting so that we can at our next meeting have feedback. Did you hear me? You froze again. Well, the last thing that we heard or at least the last thing that I heard was that it's important for the members of the assembly to carefully review the draft because this is the substantive draft before the next meeting and that's where you froze. Me too. Okay, perfect. The last piece is just that I will indicate in the report Matia and I will indicate in the report the area is that we still have to deliberate on in our next meeting or so. So I would be prepared for our next meeting if everybody can be prepared to stay for an hour and a half next week, beginning at two. I think that will get. Did that all come through? Okay. All right. Are there any? What was that Pamela? So you froze again, but the last thing that you said was just asking everybody to be prepared to stay for an hour and a half at the next meeting which we'll begin at two next week. Perfect. Okay, any other comments or questions before I adjourn the meeting? All right. Once again, a really wonderful discussion. Thank you very, very much and we will see you next week and I'm adjourning at 1229. Thank you, Michelle for everything. Pamela, thank you. Okay. Bye.