 Hello everybody, if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly. Joining me as always is, I suppose, my own personal bone ripper to my thank-well. What's going on, Tom? How you doing? Hello friends. Does that mean I ride Tom around? I'll let you fill in the blanks. Also joining us on the show, AOS List Labs, the man, the myth, the legend, one of my personal heroes and idols, Sam Morgan. What's up, brother? How you doing? Hello. I would very much like to see you two squeeze into a boat. That would be great. You two in the bringy-dingy. Well, we're gonna talk about Mr. Soulseeker today for sure. Absolutely. I love that dude. Everybody's favorite new friend, that guy. We are going to be talking about this right here. We're gonna be talking about Skaven today, getting into it. Is it the most Johnny-ish book they've ever released? I mean, it's up there. We'll get in it. We'll get amongst it. We're gonna talk about it. What it's like. Is it good? Is it bad? Is it book one? All of these questions will not be answered, but we'll chew around the edges of some of them. But first, of course, the news. Maybe if I hold still, people will think that I froze. And then you'll have an excuse as to why, even though we're doing this and I warned you a half hour before and you were sitting here for ten minutes, you didn't bring up the news to discuss. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what you're talking about. We have a rumor engine. We do. We do. It is a hand holding a skull with claws. Useless. Yeah. I don't know what to do with this. I don't know. I'm kind of excited about it. Okay. What do you think it is? Sam, what do you think it is? Oh, I haven't seen it and I can't see it, so I'm gonna make a wild guess. I'm gonna make a wild guess that it's flesh-eated quartz. And that their line is receiving one additional like small monster sized hero. That's that's my guess. There it is. Like, realistically, Sam, that is as good as a guess as you made if you were staring at the image because that's the exact same guess I was gonna make. Yeah, so I thought the same thing, but the fingers aren't thin enough. Like the nails are like blunted and stubby a little bit. I mean, in my defense, you didn't say that. You didn't say that up front, so I couldn't. I didn't have that information. That is also true. That's true. No, I'm more resuming, Tom. I'm rebuking Vince, not you, Sam. I don't know. Like, I'll say this, the teeth are super defined on that skull, like really defined. So I don't know how zoomed in this actually is. Very much so. You can see from the, yes, like you can, yes. You can see the brushstrokes very clearly. I mean, maybe. Yeah, so it's some kind of dead thing. Cool. Let's talk about real stuff. Rumor has it's like this or just like whatever. It's okay. It's a thing. Next, the time frame as well. We could be getting this next week or this could literally be 24 months away. You don't know with these things anymore, so exactly. They're so far out. Yeah. All right. Next thing. Painting stuff. Let's talk about paints. So like paint is supposed to be a big deal, like new contrasts that are just, you know, just more of the normal stuff. Just really. Tom, have you heard about Slap Chop? It's all the rage these days. Uh, yeah. Actually, I'm painting a commission using Slap Chop right now. See, there you go. You know, I mean, yeah, the new paints come out this weekend. I'll have the first of two videos about them come out this Saturday. Yeah, I'm excited for them. That's cool. They're going to do the paint stuff, and then they're doing like a paint-a-thon on July 17th, where they're going to just hang out in hobby all day and answer people's questions and stuff like that on the Twitch channel. So, cool stuff. Vince, do you remember when we used to do like paint-a-thons, like all day painting episodes? Yeah, just random hobby episodes, yeah. Back before I had to like edit videos, and which takes hours and hours. Yes, I do remember that. Do you remember the days of us just like sitting around talking for like six hours at a time and people watching that for some reason? I do. Good times. But here we are. Now we edit instead and write things. And I have to prepare. I have to spend 10 hours making PowerPoint presentations. It's great. The life I've chosen for myself, yes. I agree. I've made all the best decisions. We need to paint some more sometime. Okay. New paints, obviously, with a paint-a-thon, we have those paints on pre-order. I'm kind of looking forward to them. We'll see. I really like the neon colors, like very bright colors, and I like the blues, like the whitish blues, like the ice blue, and then the like the white with just a touch of blue. Those interest me. Yeah, the one of them is real strong. The other two were part of the weak contrast range you were talking about, where they're very soft. Yeah, so I'm interested. We'll see. All right, we'll see. I picked up the Army Painter Speedpaints recently, and I thought that some of those were comparable with GW. Some of them were marginally better. So it's really nice to have a competitive industry thing going on there, where they've opened it consistently up their game. I like a bit of healthy competition. And I'm keen to try it at the Croxigall, the turquoise one. Because that's a color that I use often, usually like to desatch, right? But not to contrast. But yeah, it's a nice color, I think. Yeah, it is a very good color. There's a couple in this line. I'm actually super excited about this line, because it's got like seven single pigment colors in it. They're really bright and intense. That's what I generally like. It's super kick you in the face colors. Stuart, what's up, Stuart? I see him in the chat. He said, I'm just glad they didn't release another seven Browns. That's true. But the two Browns they did release, which is Garagak, Sewer, and Ratling Grime, are both actually awesome. They're really good Browns. So you get two really good ones. So there you go. All right. But I feel like we've buried the lead, Tom, because as soon as those books are out now, what happens but the next week? And sure enough, it feels like it feels like I'm like in Magic World. So Magic Gathering has has gotten like this terrible, terrible like rotation going, where literally like a set will release. And then two days later, they begin previewing the next set. So much so that like it's like it's created this terrible market grind situation. And like markets on all the sealed stuff is crashing. And it's like a post apocalyptic over there on in Wizard's World right now. And now in GW, it seems like they're like, let's do it again, you know, where where they the grind is real. And so we have a new another toolbox, folks. That's right. This is our third and three months. I mean, get used to it. This is the world from now on. This this is our life now. This one is Zinch versus LRL. We knew this was coming. Because the GHB book, we knew that there was a new hero. And if there's a new single LRL hero, that definitely means definitely means that it's a toolbox. Zinch was the low hanging fruit there. There was a bunch of Zinch adjustments that we saw that was highlighted in our GHB video last week. And we suggested that that's probably what we're looking at. And lo and behold, we did they updated the the cursing model, the old fine cast with up a new plastic. And so I mean, it all looks great. I love, love, love the the new LRL model. Like I love the the homeless. Yeah, let's take a look at her here at the Enlightener. So first of all, Sam, how do you feel about the fact they made us wait this long for another LRL book? I feel like this was at least three, six months delayed. We should have had it sooner. That's number one. Number two, it really is, it is frustrating. Number two, how much do you think Zinch will cheat in this then their upcoming book? Like, what's the cheating percentage? Is it going to be at the same level it was hired? Where are we going to be on the cheating scale? They don't have a good track record. No, this is the massive crossroads have taken probably two of the the most offensive books in terms of how convoluted they are. And in terms of how frustrating they are to play against and, you know, the the mental overhead to play those armies. It's it's literally the worst playing against a new Zinch player. They're sort of thumbing through their book, you're like, you've got a hundred things you got to do this hero phase. If you're opening the book, I'm in trouble here. So I really, I really deeply hope that they they fix both those books in terms of streamlining them and also in terms of the way that they play. So having a kill box for Zinch isn't particularly fun. You're within 18 inch of my army, you've lost. And then Lumeneth, you're never getting to my army, you've lost neither of those play styles I find particularly engaging. And I probably say that they're my two least favorite armies in the whole game. So I've got my fingers massively crossed, but I don't I don't know. I think it feels like they're just doing little little tweaks. They're working at the margins and the edges rather than at the core for some of these these older books that are being revitalized. So I'm a little bit apprehensive. Yeah, I mean, really step one for basically both of these books is throw them into the sea and start over like strip these things to the stud and write new rules. That's it. Well, it's interesting because the Shining Company moves to the War Scroll. I don't know if you guys saw that it moves to the the rule for Shining Company moved to the War Scroll and got simplified already. And they pulled out. It's just keeping models within like base to base basically of two other models. And they completely got rid of the restrictions on charging and and piling it and all that stuff. Sure. The question will be, do they do they actually cut all the necessary stuff? Like, do Lumineth actually need five layers of special rules? Probably not. Probably you could just make them like good. And that would be fine. That would just be fine. If you just had gave them like some good some good stats and and one layer of rules. And then we called it a day. That would probably be okay and a better play experience. Yes, I am all about book dampening throw them in the sea. That's correct. I completely agree with you Sam on your take. This is like the two worst armies as far as complexity, confusion, overcooked, overwrought, over top down concepted books being thrown out at the same time, which scares me. I mean, I'll just say I'm looking forward to it. Like this is a dual box. I am buying friends. I mean, it's good box as far as I do want to paint this girl. I agree with you. The fig is amazing. As well as a new cursing. I have a big zinge army and I'm interested. I'd love to have actually find zinge compelling to play again, which it's not right now. So there you go. I really like the redesigned cursing. I've seen some people say they don't like it. Sam, what do you think of the redesigned cursing? I think it's sensational. I'm a massive fan. The old one, I have no idea how it migrated to AOS because I think he was a special character back in the day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this one, yeah, obviously it's a more modern take. I like it. They really struggle with these hybrids between magic caster and fighters would be interesting to see. Like I'm thinking the twins over in the slanesh, where they're riding the demon around. That sort of stuff doesn't let usually land. Yeah. And there's one in Lumeneth as well. So we'll wait and see how this one how this one pans out in terms of the war's grow. The problem with Ellaria and Alakbion or whatever their names are, the twins, the LRL twins. And with Celesk is that they're just writing on each other, basically, right? They don't get this whole integration. The twins are jumping over each other. They're basically writing on each other on the model, Tom. I understand what they're trying to portray, but not one's writing on the other. They're basically playing chicken in a pool. That's like that's what's going on there. But yeah, I think this new cursing model is just amazing. I am stoked about this. I really, really like this model. So, yeah, great stuff. Also, I'll pick up both the heroes. I have no intention of picking it, like just the one just to paint because I think it'd be a fun paint project and the other for my zinge army. What I'm hoping is that like, zinge becomes interesting to play exactly what you said beyond the kill box and that they have roles and something for the demons to do. Well, you can send me your your Zangor stuff, Ben, because you're clearly not going to use it. No. And and then just give Kevin the LRL. Yeah, sure. I'll just keep the two heroes. There you go. Okay. Good stuff. All right. Can we talk about can we briefly talk about how I'm pretty sure that all of the LRL just as a race are toddlers? Why so? Because they're always standing on rocks. Yeah, if you've ever had young children, young children always look to rocks to stand on, right? Like, so if there's any like high point, they'll always go stand on those things like little meerkats. And all of the LRL heroes doesn't matter who you are, they're standing on little tiny rocks. Well, two things I'll say to that, Tom, you'll see, so I have a new situation out back behind my house. You'll see it in a couple of weeks when you come up. But there is a raised rock wall. Okay. Every time I take the dogs out, I jump up on the wall and walk around on the wall. Yeah. So Vince, Vince is the toddler here. Got it. I haven't noticed my childhood glee, Tom, unlike apparently the rest of you who just don't jump up on walls and rocks anymore. Like I will of course you jump on rocks. It's fun. It's fun to jump on rocks. I'm with the LRL and that's the only thing that apparently I like about them. So yeah, I agree. Thank you. That's what rocks are for, Tom. There you go. All right. Excellent. Let's get into some pick of the week, shall we? Okay. Sam, you have some picks. What would you like to share with everybody? Yeah, I have two. Two being particularly parochial, both from my neighborhood. So I've got Stuart, the Iron Gutsman, and his YouTube channel. He's done some really interesting analysis of the Nurgle book in the sort of the latter days of the last GHB and then more recently he's put out a Skaven episode, which hopefully will complement what we discussed today. I'd certainly recommend it for anyone looking for further Skaven viewing. Stuart was one of my teammates over at AROS Worlds and he was the best performing Australian. He did particularly well. I'd certainly have a good listen and take him what he has to say and quite often he has views, which are maybe contrary to the broader popular belief. So I really like his stuff. I don't agree with all of it, but I like his stuff. And the other one I've put down is Danny Paints and he started a series. We're playing Lord of the Rings. We're sort of playing Lord of the Rings and Wyamath Sixth Edition as our mains. So we're pretending it's like 2002 or something. Yeah, sure. Just all over again. Yeah, yeah. Are you using books or are you just using ravening hordes and just calling it a day? No, we're using books and there's Community FAQ which sort of tightens it up. It's a dog's breakfast. It is certainly a nostalgia game, not a crisp 2022 game. And yeah, Danny's doing a series at the moment where he's painting up the vanquishes of the Necromancer and he's just done the first one there, Galadriel, which I was able to take some learnings away in terms of there's a bit with, you know, transparent clothing so you can see your stomach and you can see the white cloth and something I've been trying to pull off with my Amazons that I'm painting. So yeah, I really enjoyed that one as well. Very nice. Is this the Amazon like Mordheim Warband? Did you get your hands on that? Yeah. It's a great Warband I am as well. 2002 again. Yep. Yep. A couple of years back I found one in a game store new in box sitting on the shelf, still at original retail price. I was just like, I'm gonna be buying that. Thank you. This is like 2017 or something. Yeah, it was crazy. Oh my gosh. Well, it was 20 years earlier than that because we were in the Mordheim and we were recently. Yeah, it was 2015. But still, that's still like 16 years after the fact. When it should have been at retail. Still shrink wrapped. It was great. Well, I found a Mangle Man of Flares, Dogs of War. Oh yeah, the Dogs of War boxes. Yep. At like, still brand new shrink wrap 30 bucks at my Hobby Count USA. Nice. All right. Excellent suggestions. And let me just say, people who are watching this after you're done here, go click on that link. Give Stewart's Scaven video a watch. It's amazing. Stewart's an awesome person. And plus, if we all go, if a bunch of people go and sub to him, then he'll feel compelled to make more videos, which is what I also want. So there you go. Tom, what's your pick? Yeah. So Scott Minniak dropped a video this last week on or actually, I guess it was last week on some controversy. Some of you had heard that he had done some work for the for the Horse Heresy event. And he had an oopsie where he posted some stuff to his Instagram and was smacked pretty hard on the wrist for it. And so he had kind of a tell all like, here's what I did. Here's what happened. It's my fault. I'm sorry. And it stirred up a lot of conversation. And so I really appreciated it. I thought it was a great, just a heartfelt engagement with an issue of just, you know, truth telling, right? Yeah, like, this is what I did. This is what happened. And I messed up. And we don't always get that, especially from content providers. And so I would encourage you all to check it out. And as a bonus, you get to see Vince dance in that video. That is a true statement. Yeah, somebody's already gift that I know that gift now exists and is out there. It was already sent to me. It's fine. The direction I got was dancing the stupidest way you can imagine. Okay, got it. Handle it. I'm on it. So you look like a marionette check. Yeah. Hey, look, I, I respond to direction. Okay, like I'm not the I'm just the actor. All right. So I got to respond to the director's vision. So my pick of the week will be for our good buddy, Hey, whoa, who did a nice review of Battle Scroll, Gallant, Galay, Gillette, the best in a OS player can get and walk through it. And it's a good, good review. And what's fun about it is to have him read each rule and go, Oh, I, I like that. That's okay. Because he was reacting to it cold, like he hadn't pre-edit. Yeah. Before he went in. And so it was great to have him read things and be like, Oh, yes, this is actually a good fix. This is actually a good change. And, you know, like, thank you. Again, I'll say it again. Thanks for actually doing the thing we asked you to do, which is change the rules that are bad. That's all we want. It's not, it's not hard. Just, just fix the things that are broken. I don't know why this is ever a conversation. So, and, and they did, and it'll be interesting to see how things shake out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Excellent. Gentlemen, hobby time. Sam, what's been on your desk? Have you been working on that, that middle hammer? Yeah, I do. I do have an affinity for the middle hammer. So anything 2000, 2007, my wheelhouse. So I've got 120 corsairs, dark elf corsairs from the sixth edition release that I'm, I'm cleaning up at the moment that they're all the white metal. So I, I picked up a mini Dremel and I'm just pinning everything and, and some of the mold lines are just like wild. Like, I don't know, he's in the, in the cast, but they're not, they're not great. So I'm working through all of that with a view to getting it ready. I'm doing a, like a three video series where I'm going to do paint an army in a weekend. So Danny and I both are going to do that and have complimentary videos. Then I'm going to do an episode with Darren Watson, getting the most out of the dreadlord on Black Dragon, because we both, we both see him as a, as a challenge, trying to get that unit in and then do something cool with it. And then, and then finally the series will wrap up with me doing a vlog at the, the Hobart Grand Tournament where I'm going to take my Scourge Privateers and my, my nominal aim is to go for a one with a predominantly Scourge Privateers army. So that's the, that's like a little, that's like a little 90 day snapshot of what's going to be happening in my life. And, and I think, yeah, I'm super excited about it. I, I was fortunate enough to spend some time with Simon, who did your slaves to darkness review recently. And he talked me through the Splintered Fang stuff in some detail. And I was, he had a captive audience. I was like, give me more, give me more. And then I've been, I've been thinking about alternate versions of that. So I can get the, I can get the corsairs up to six attacks each, rend five, damage two. And that, that's cool. Cause the unit of 10 can go in and pop stuff then. Obviously. And there's, yeah, there's some really nice interactions there. Cities, cities is a really cool puzzle to try and unpack, try and solve. I agree. Yeah, absolutely. I try to get Vince interesting. Yeah, I try to get Vince to let me run Drake spawn and, and Corsa and in Scourge Privateers for Havoc. Like I was like, come on, I'm going to do a bunch of knights and we'll do the dragon as a general, it'll be great. And then I'll have some Scourge and he's like, stop it. The Drake spawner 120 now. So every GHB, they have a nominal reduction in points. So it's 10 wounds, three plus, that's the thing. Like in Tempest Eye in particular, you just have them in line screen forward, but there's just one attack. The one attack is really problematic for the, for the lances. Yes, but it's three attacks a model. And if they are bounty hunters, that's too damaging on conquering units. That's pretty good. Yeah, you're preaching to the Kauai night. I'm pretty converted. We're going to get Vince on board. Yeah, I know. I love that every time it's, but in bounty hunters, that's the new thing. That's the new go to now. That's the new, yeah, that's the new cogs. Now instead, he's going to make me play my spiders. That's what happened. That I'm for. I support this. It's got a massive glow up. Anyway, they look, they're looking great. So yeah, Tom, what do you, I know what you're, I know what you're working on, but you can tell everybody else what you're working on. Yeah. I, well, I already did kind of, I'm, I'm, I'm working on a fairly large Sylvan F commission, which is literally like Sylvan F. Like, if there was ever an army, ever an army that was made to shine with slap chop. Yeah, it's so sure. Yeah, sure. Sure. Because the wild wood contrast is a wonderful brown for wood. And when you get a bunch of layers in there with like, you know, with dry brush stuff, with whites all the way down to like, and that like just the whole range, it looks great. It looks great with contrast on it. And so I am, I am working through the first thousand in some points, 2000 points of his army. So it's, it's, it'll be a pretty big, pretty big commission. So I'm doing a bunch of archers right now and some award song revenue and a bunch of stuff, just all the things. Very nice. I will, and I want to answer Andrew here, who said, What is chaff in AOS? So chaff is like any cheap unit that you put out there to screen so that your opponent can't choose the combats they want. They can't kill your things that they want to come kill in melee specifically. In the current iteration of the game in 3.0, your best sort of chaff is probably like fast five model light cavalry units that have sort of the best coherency, especially if they're not battle line, then that's an even better world because then they don't end up being Galatian veterans and it's much harder to remove from it. If they're mounted, yeah, like if they're mounted, they can't be. Oh yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah. Yeah, that's why they're so good because then they're not GV. They're not Galatian veterans. So anyways, the general idea of them is to just get in the way. Yes. And help you control the pace and take a hit like he is for them to take a hit. And whether they survive or not, most of the time they're going to die, unless they're Drake spawn, which are on three up space, two ups in tempestine. And on that first turn, and then they get out of the way. So if they survive, they retreat out and then you basically get to come in with whatever unit you want to fight with and in cleanup. Yes, there are many, many units that fit this description. All right, some armies just don't have any though. That is a worth thing worth saying. Okay, cool. My hobby time, I'm the only one who show appropriate here, I guess. My hobby time, I've been repainting some old school. These are very heavy and metal. I don't want to drop them, but some old school gutter runner slash whatever, whatever assassin dudes, I don't know. I have a bunch of the metal ones from the 90s. And so I'm trying out some different color schemes. There's a little stabby guy right there with a little net. And then this one's almost done. He's still in process. He needs his poison. Yeah, there you go. They're little weeping blades. So we're doing a little purple, seeing how I like that. But yeah, I've been working, it's all, it's scavin' here. It's scavin' time. I actually sent a request out to our friend you're doing the commission for, because I found some 3D prints of some scavin' models that I want. Just general stuff. I sent a request over, you know, here's the thing, both in searching for art for this show, and in searching through 3D prints of scavin, okay, there is a lot of people making a lot of scavin' or rat women that are very, very, very, very humanized in their femininity. Let me just say that, okay? Well, I mean, rats created- I just googled like scavin' art and it was just half of my results were that. And look, no shame. I'm not throwing shame on your cake. You like what you like. I would just say it is not a question of me judging. You go nuts. My question was, I had no idea it was this popular. That was, I mean, it was in like Flynn. Okay, it is a lot. So there you go. Are you surprised that the infestation spread so quickly? Apparently, yeah, so anyways. In-world explanations. That's all it is. People just expanding the lore appropriately. The appropriate follow-up question, Tom, that you didn't make that I was hoping you were going to make was, how many of those did you have him print for you? No, I wasn't going to help you. I know there's some in there. There's no question in my mind to which I plead the fifth. My other, look, my other, my other favorite army is Lanish. Okay, look, it's, when I see the opportunity to combine the two, what can I do? All right. And anyway, spreading to a table near you. Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed. All right. So with that talk finished, gentlemen, let's get into the scavin' book. By the way, of course, in my traditional style, I did add a few slides. Since I sent this to you, I'll warn you in advance. It's what I do, because I always think of more stuff. I send people slides in advance so they can prep for the show. And then as I'm sitting here on the day, I'm like, yeah, but also I want to say this. So it's what happens. Okay, let's get into this. I'm gonna throw out a little overview, and then Sam, I want to go over to you for your sense of things here. Here's the notes that hit me on the overview. I think it's a good book. I think it feels like it didn't get the same love as the other 3.0 tones, but it's a good book. I said here, tap in Johnny, it's your turn. I really do think this is like one of the most Johnny-ish books they've ever made. There's lots and lots of power pair action here. It feels a lot like cities, which I think is appropriate to some degree, both in its Johnny-ishness and in its power pair nature. A great change was you have a lot more freedom for battle line, which is awesome. That was a huge problem in the old book. It doesn't really play with the 3.0 rules as much as most of the other books, like redeploy and rally abilities and command ability stuff. It's just like, there's not a lot in that that plays with the current ruleset. Unique monstrous rampages and whatever. You would think you would see that stuff, but nope. The good with the current battle pack, you have a lot of control over your battle line. You can control what is GV and what is not, and can have a good sized unit pretty easy. You can play with that stuff really simply. Bad with the current battle pack, a lot of your units are sort of forced galley vets. What I mean by that is the galley vets you take are compelled to take them sometimes. Clan rats or storm vermin or other units you happen to be bringing in as battle line who are often galley vets because most things in this army are unmounted for wound or less infantry that are battle line, or could be. They're just made of paper. There's no toughness in this force at all. They're very susceptible to bounty hunters. And then the absolute worst part of this book for me is there's no ability to manipulate reinforcement points, which is just insane to me. It's insane to me. I cannot wrap my head around the idea that Daughters of Cain have a way to manipulate reinforcement points, and Skaven don't. Daughters of Cain are not a horde army. They're not. Okay? Sorry, Chuck. They're not. They're not. The horde armies in this game are Skaven, Beast of Chaos, and Gits. And then, arguably, Chuck the Zombies in there. Like, there's a couple other ones that can, like, those are like, that's your primary way they're sort of assumed, right? Now there's other armies that, like you said, like, they could pivot into it. Like, Soul Blight could pivot into it. Fine Dock could be a pivot into it. I'll accept that's a valid play style, right? You know, arguably even something like Cities could theoretically do so. They have a ton of just foot infantry that they could throw out cheap if they wanted, right? But the fact that in a primary horde army, you just have your locked army of enforcement points, and it's worse in this than in most other tomes, because this book combines two things that suck. Wanting to be a horde army and lots of really oddly small sized units that you may want to actually reinforce so you can do something with them. The number of units in this book that are like two, three, five, six. Six. Six is so annoying. Yeah, it's so weird. Like, and so as a result of that, you really feel the reinforcement point thing, uh, badly in this book. Okay. There's all my, there's all my thoughts. Sam, did I, did I miss anything here on the overview? Or do you disagree with anything with it? I said, what do you think? Oh, this is the greatest and best book in the world. The tribute. It's like, it's so close. It's so close. They, they, they, so tribute. Yes, they almost, they almost got there. They almost got there. I think that this is a book that loves internal synergy. And this is a book that is going to be able to migrate through as we have different GHBs and the meta evolves. I think externally it's well placed. It's really interesting because who knows when it was supposed to be released, but that in all likelihood we could have, there could be a world where we played this last season. And it'd be interesting to see how it plays into that very different meta and very different dynamic. And then, you know, we've got six months at the moment with seemingly difficult battle tactics and grand strategies that Scaven have some options to get relatively easily compared to other armies. So I do like the direction that they've taken. I do like the, the modernization. I think it's, it can sometimes be a little bit dangerous or problematic to do comparative analysis, particularly when that last book came out right at the start of second edition. Sort of like talking about a completely different game. But yeah, I think overall, there's certainly been a power increase. And overall, that's from my perspective, been an enormous increase in the number of viable lists because they've just unlocked that battle line, that battle line problem we had previously, where we became a particular clan. And then we locked out everything else except for one master clan character. So look, I love this book. I think to all of your dot points fits, I would strongly agree. And but the one that I'd like to punctuate is just the reinforcement issue because it makes it, it makes it very challenging to write a functional list that reflects what you expect the army to be like. So you can write really strong lists, right, which have big kitty pieces or glass hammers like the sense of errors. But it is very difficult to go you're reinforced storm vermin or plague monks, because the best bang for buck is always going to be clan rats because they're starting at 20. So you get the bodies you're incentivized to reinforce them and not the others. But yeah, the brief answer is yes, I agree with your overview. I think it's on point. Yeah, you really feel it. And I agree with what Stuart said. He's like, I love the book, but with no reinforcement point manipulations, they want you to spend a thousand points on heroes. And I find myself doing that quite a lot, just because either I'm out of reinforcement points, or it's just what makes sense, or I need to get I need to get in more units. Right. And so I'm just like, well, if I'm going to bring in that unit, I've got to bring in its power pair hero to go with it, regardless of whether or not I'm trying to make it battle line. I just the unit without it's, it's sort of buff piece is just not hitting at the level I needed to hit at right. So yeah, yeah, yeah, Tom, what about you? Yeah, the like when I looked over at the first thing that I thought and you kind of hinted at this, Sam was I do I just I had to ask the question like, so how long has this book been done? Right, right. It feels like it was made almost for a 2.0 world. And then like they just kind of went in and tweet, like a very few things. Right. I suspect this book was like done a year ago. And they were going to roll it out in early to mid early to mid fall. So we would have had it last season. And then it feels like just the delay, like the way that things rolled. Right. The delay just kept pushing things back and pushing things back and pushing things back. Because this would have been paired with the Sylvaneth box. Right. Like in the Sylvaneth book. And so this could have very easily been like late last season, or even mid season. So like beginning of this year, end of last year. So I just, I don't know. Yeah. And the Sylvaneth book does play with these mechanics, like wildly all the time it's playing with new mechanics, like almost every single unit, which which is what tells me that like it feels like it this is like probably book was probably done a while ago. Sure. Okay. So now we come to a new slide that I added since I sent this to all of you guys, which is which is insights. And so I want to go point by point here and get get some takes from both of you. Because you haven't seen these before. So this is going to be hot takes from Sam and Tom. Here we go. Okay. And Gamma just a real quick answer that I don't think it's it's a lackluster tone. It's a good tone. It just I don't know. Yeah, it's a good tone. It got me really excited. I've been doing nothing but writing lists, like it'll be competitive. It'll be fun. I'm just saying it feels like it's not as good as it could be. Like it felt like where it's it's you said it perfect when it's like the greatest book in the world tribute, right? Like it just it's like they had the perfect book and then they went, but we can't we can't do that. Right. So I don't know. Okay. Here's my here's my statements. This book. Go ahead. Good job. Please. I was just saying it feels like they didn't explore all the design possibilities they could have. So it's not that it's lackluster, right? It said it could have been that much better. Yeah. In reading it, you almost see what it what it could have been. Yes. Absolutely. You just look at that that open fertile ground and you're like, how did you not plow that field? Right. It feels like the trade that we've made for volume. We have all these war scrolls is quality. Like it would it would be nicer to have fewer scrolls and sadly have to retire a few of our models, but for everything to be relevant and meaningful. And obviously that's a choice they've they've opted not to make and instead they've kept the warp fire thrower from 1992. So great. Well, hey, hey, the good news is this could always be like the new luminous the chaos luminous. Don't don't be taking my thunder, Tom. Do not be taking my thunder from my final bullet point. You shut your dirty mouth. Okay. All right. Here we go. So I'm glad you said the scrolls thing, Sam, because that's actually my first point. There's lots of scrolls, it's lighter on sort of allegiance abilities, right? It's more about the synergy, the combo of the scrolls, that kind of thing. You look at something like Night Haunt does not have a large number of scrolls. And it's just like six individual, powerful, army-wide-ish allegiance abilities affecting things in a big way, right? Which is fine, by the way. I'm not like I'm not saying, oh darn, we don't have enough of them. They went a different direction. Here the power is resting more in the scrolls and the synergies in the combos. And you know, that's just an interesting thing that happens. Like they almost feel in these books that have tons of scrolls. They have to be really careful with allegiance abilities so that they can actually like control what's going on because of the permutations, right? Any, what do you think? Agree? Disagree? Sound right? Strongly agree. Okay. All right. Here we go. Number two. Battleshock will be a thing. Get used to it with this army. Because you largely have to spread out if you want to run lots of units. Because again, a four-mentioned reinforcement point thing. Because you don't really have any big boost to bravery or anything like that anymore, like Skaven traditionally got through their strength and numbers and so on. And you only have really one piece that you could include that provides like blanket Battleshock immunity. And that piece is of questionable value outside of a couple very particular builds. Like you're going to Battleshock stuff. You're an army of bravery four and five. And when like, there's a lot of stuff in the game now that just kind of poops mortal wounds around. You know, like I played a game this weekend, which I'll reference a couple times. I've gotten three games in so far with this tone. So pretty good. Hoping to get more this weekend, holiday weekend. But there was, I was facing Techless and the Tech NATO. And that thing was just, you know, a wrecking ball. Because it was just like blow a couple guys out of each unit. And then Battleshock on these. And then Battleshock would happen and I'd lose a couple more. So it's just like slowly bleeding out everything, right? So and I, and Techless, I, I wasn't running a magic heavy list, so I didn't have the magic power to stop him. I picked the worst list for that potential matchup. So what do you think, Sam Battleshock? Welcome to the world. Yeah, I think the value of that warp seer vermin lord popping out bravery 10 in a bubble is really significant. Also, the helps that he gives you the double master clan hero. But yeah, the warp series is obviously going to be a really significant thing. I think playing under playing 60 points under and going double triumph with two immune to battle shocks is a legitimate approach. And I think unfortunately the furnace probably doesn't cut it. So it's still giving you the immune to battle shock, whereas the bell's not any longer. But yeah, I think battle shock is massively a problem, particularly when there are units like in Stormcast, there's a heap of units that can do splash damage in in seraphon. The engine of the gods can do splash damage as a heap of viable units in the meta at the moment that can hurt multiple units in one one go. And if if you're running MSU and trying to trade, which is I think probably the the clearest path to victory for this game and book, you're going to be in trouble from a battle shock perspective. Yep. Okay, agree. My next statement is decent internal balance, not exceptionally, but decent. It's pretty good. Most of the units have some play like I've written a lot of different units into my lists. There are exceptions. There are some units that I just don't think have any purpose in the world. But there's not many of those. So that's that's not bad. It's pretty good. Most units, you can be like, Yeah, all right, I could see a list that uses those to a good degree. Sam, what's your thought? Yeah, look, there's a hierarchy within the book. Like unquestionably, there are some things that are better than others, but there's a use case for every single wall scroll. So there's not a single wall scroll in there. But if you were trying to be competitive, you could discard straight away, you need to look at everything and sometimes it's going to come down to composition points, what the function of that unit is. And as I say, ultimately, like some things are going to be better. Like, for instance, the named assassin is better than the standard assassin. But if you don't have the additional points and you need that third Asian hero, for instance, then you're going to take a death master. So that's yeah, I think across the board, everything is viable, which is fantastic. But ultimately, obviously, you're going to get that the list will narrow over time to sort of an ascended build or a couple of ascended builds. But that's not to say that you can't explore every single unit in the book, which is a great starting point. Yeah, I would argue there's one scroll that you will never put in a list. But okay, we'll see if you when we get there. Okay, I'm interested. Yeah, there's there's one in particular. All right. So grand strats, the the grand strats that I like out of the basic I'm not well I'm not talking about the battle tome grand strats, I'm saying like if you're picking the from the existing grand strats, the way you should be picking because battle tome grand strats and battle tactics shouldn't exist and should all be hurled into the sun like nuclear weapons and Superman four. So the three I picked here as like potentials, there's no great ones for you but potentials are no place for the weak, which is kill all of the enemy battle line. It's something that you just are going to be highly incentivized to do in the current meta anyways, because those battle line are often going to be GVs and you want to eliminate them for a large number of reasons. Take what's theirs, which is having people in their deployment zone. This book is like teleportathon 2022 you have a million ways to be anywhere you want on the board. So like getting into their territory is generally not hard. And then finally show of dominance, because you have, you may have a ton of GVs sort of accidentally. And the fact that you can just have one 25 millimeter dumb dumb survive, and then go walk into the center of the board and complete this grand strat with one model in round five or whatever is valuable. So there you go. Those are my choices as far as like what grand strats I think have potential for exploration. How about that? Yeah. Yeah. Sam? That the other ones. I think the getting into the opponent's territory is the one that I've tried so far and achieved every time that's relatively easy with just with the mobility of the army and the damage output. So yeah, I like that one. Yep. Hammers is my next point. Just hammers. Hammers, this book has many units that are or can become through synergies very strong hammers, but everything is made of paper. So units have to be used carefully. You mentioned already like the concept of trading properly. I think it's a huge deal in this book. Like you've got to use your units right. You've got to make sure they get in the good fights. You've got to trade appropriately or you're dead in the water because like you don't really have things that can take hits. There's no true animals. There's a couple things that you're like it's okay. It can it can withstand a little bit of a punch, but nothing is like a true animal here. Seem right? Yeah, this this army really feels the the lack of hunters of the heartlands. So a raw can be quite impactful on this army because quite a few of your hammer units are hammers contingent on the right buffs being up. So in the in the event you your copper sphinx or the cockatrice or some 90 point monster into your your horde of 30 guys so that can that can quickly switch, switch the numbers quite dramatically in terms of the potential damage output that they're doing. So um or let's say like I did this weekend you play an entire game under total eclipse. Let's just imagine that. That's another and our force to go first every turn to stay in the game. Yeah, great. Yeah, Teclas isn't kind to this army, is he? No, he's not. He's a real tough matchup. Yeah, him and the him and the coalesced with which still has monsters. They're the two that are going to be really tough for this army to play. Yeah. Possibly among others. But yeah, I think the hammers are interesting because the the rat ogres and the storm vermin obviously have had their their save change to a four up. So if you get a mystic shield on you can do a little bit of hammer and anvil with those but you know compared to a Nurgle anvil it's not an anvil at all. So yeah, the durability is going to be a problem. Yeah. Finally, final point, is this book one? It's tinfoil hat time. Here we go. You ready? Okay, you stole exactly what I was going to say, Tom. Is this our LRL book one? Okay, look, plans within plans machinations of the council of 13. Clearly, there should have been a model release for this clearly. But the timing just didn't work out. So my hope is that this the reason that this book feels like we didn't explore everything we could is because that book is coming in the future. Like that's the book we're going to put all the effort into. And that's the book that comes with the relaunch of all the super sweet sculpts. Maybe that's like six months, eight months a year from now. I don't know. I'm just throwing out ideas. I'm just saying keep hope alive. That's that's my that's my tinfoil hat. Sam, what do you what do you think about my tinfoil hat theory? Nope, it's not happening. I don't yeah, I don't I don't hold any hope for those sort of things. I'm very content with what they've given us. I obviously would have loved new sculpts. But I yeah, I think we'll probably have this one all the way up to iOS for that will be my I'll be my guess. There's no way there's no way that this last to iOS for at the very least we get a new campaign book with some updates and some updated ranges. I there's just you know it has been as we're going to point out in the slideshow like some of the models in here like woof GW like you are you are hurting your corporate image by selling those models because you sell yourself as a model company and literally having those on the market lowers your brand identity you are damaging your brand by selling those models I look at those I look at that and I'm just like yeah I could go for some Ralph Partha sure sure all right cool well time will tell two very some very different opinions I guess we'll see I will hold out hope uh okay let's jump right into this gentlemen here we go let's get into the allegiance abilities okay uh we're going to cover I'll just read through this stuff and quickly and then we'll kind of talk about it right yeah you got three basic battle traits lead from the back which is basically we get uh you know the same neg one to hit that you normally get in shooting uh if you're in melee so you're little for your little heroes this is non monsters gain this okay so you get lookouts are in combat if you're not a monster cool good scurry away uh in the combat phase when you pick a friendly scavenger that does not have a mount uh to fight you can scurry away instead if you do so the hero can retreat so you can leave combat every time you activate with one of your heroes as long as they don't have a mount so that means no bells no thankful which is ironic because he scurries away quite a lot in the comics but area the stories I should say uh okay and then finally strengthen numbers which is like the real winner of this group um add one inch to the range of melee weapons used by friendly scaven units for every 10 models in the unit to a maximum of three inches which is obviously amazing on 25 mil bases because you can fight for deep which means you just you're always all fighting a lot especially if you do have those larger units which is cool um okay so basic battle traits Sam what's your take on the basic battle it's good stuff fine yeah they're excellent obviously small small change to scurry away in that they've added that line about being mounted uh and then I think the strength in numbers is uh are significant and and meaningful buff for the army but particularly when you've got units like night runners that can do mortal wounds so mortal wounds with a three inch reach means that support characters are in all sorts of danger um and I think both of those rules scurry away and strengthen numbers um highlight the absence of something in the book and that's the fly keyword so you need levitate that's the first value one on your list and if you can I think the the eshin the eshin incredible yeah being able to fly I think both those things the value of them is really significant and I love scurry away is my favorite rule for stealing objectives off opponents in their turn they they try to they get a tie you up you get away you've suddenly got a monster somewhere that means you're holding it by one beautiful that's the the most scaven of scaven plays yeah yeah it is notable that the vermin lords can all do scurry away right so yes absolutely and they're running around counting us five which can be good or or it could be you could be outnumbered by 235 depending on sort of the nature of expert conquerors I guess that happen to be our on that objective that's quite a range uh you win by one or two or you are outnumbered by 235 it could go either direction um okay so then the next layer down is basically each of the clans have some set of rules based on their heroes it's this is an iteration of the previous book I like this design I'm glad they didn't try to like shove sub factions in here uh so like first of all thank you for deviating from the design when appropriate for the army this is a great choice I'm glad they continued this uh I love it it's my favorite thing is that they let you do this and it does it ups the johnny of the nature of the book because you're like your hero choices you're making are having these different picks and influences that being said I do wish we could come to like some kind of parody between these because some of these are actually really interesting especially in the take one take three hero section and some of these are like not that so at any rate okay so master clan which is obviously like your your gray seers and and uh some of the vermin lords who belong to this this particular clan uh roll a dice before you allocate a wound or mortal wound to a friendly master kind hero that's not a monster or instead of making a word roll or a wound or mortal wound that would be allocated to a friendly master kind hero that's not a monster on a three up uh they can allocate it to a friendly escaping unit with three or more models so basically master clan non monster heroes uh so this is going to be your gray seer okay uh because I all the rest of them are monsters uh can pass off wounds on a three up over to over to other units so cool okay good um and it doesn't stop ward saves on that other unit uh like that is to say like the other unit can still make its own ward against that wound um not always super relevant or rare rarely relevant I suppose since most scaven units you would be passing to and I don't know if any actually as I think about it don't have a word save base but you do have many priests and priests do get blessed and blessed is a six up word and that ain't nothing when you're dealing especially with larger hordes like so it's something this development also made me go like what happened to the claw lord well I mean we're going to get to the claw lord we'll get to him in a second so because he's obviously shows up in verminus right so right so I mean we'll we'll we'll get to what happened to him because I I don't love the way they changed his thing but it's interesting and it's also what was he always verminus or was he ever he was always verminus yeah okay you're fine now if you've got three master clan peeps okay then you get always three claw steps ahead which in my estimation is one of the most powerful rules they wrote in this entire book because this rule is wild son okay here we go so after you pick a friendly scaven unit it gives you three abilities right so by the way it doesn't matter if those heroes die it's about list construction like once you've cleared the gate of list construction you have these abilities for the game there's no proximity there's no survival it's just this is this is a thing that's on now which is amazing okay so here's the simplest form of it when you pick your first unit to run and you make your run roll you can make that everybody's run roll fine it's a good enough rule there's not like run in charge really to be had around here so it's not the biggest deal but if you happen to if you're going to be running with multiple units to like get in position or take objectives or do something and the first unit you run you pop that six hey what a great day it is to be you right you roll the five or six you're like yeah sure okay everybody runs five or six let's do this right so it's fine it's a fine roll nothing wrong with it uh now the powerful one okay after you pick a friendly scaven unit to be your first unit to attempt to charge in a phase and make a charge roll for that unit you can use that charge roll in place of any other charge rolls you make for friendly scaven units until the end of that phase this is pointed out i i'm glad that stewart and i both came to this simultaneously because i was playing around with this too you notice what word isn't there tom unmodified exactly correct and there are actually very large charge bonuses in this the first the first thing that i saw when i read that was i was like oh so they want us to cheat yes so you can you can like it is move your buffer around yeah it is quite reasonable that you can that you can you know get a unit under plus three to charge that's actually very easy and roll that out so even on an average of a seven let's just let's just say you roll the complete average number of a seven on 26 that's a 10 which means every unit in your army that's charging is now charging 10 which is a great charge i'm all about it so you know you know who i would like that on night on i i'm sure i'm sure yeah uh so it's fine yes please yes and then the third one is after you pick a friendly unit your first unit to pile in everybody gets to pile in um now that does they don't pile in and fight you don't have that if they just pile in which lets them in it's still a nightmare it's still a nightmare because like have i don't know i have 130 models on the table here we go and then yeah touch everything move at three inches and then when you activate you do it again like i just fortunately as we said you're not actually going to end up with many hordes it's just really not the way this army breaks out most of time so it it's useful for like what's going to happen is you're going to pile in with one thing and then you're going to have your other horde unit kind of flood up and around and flood up and around and use that reach so let's return back to strengthen numbers and say i'm something you mentioned because you're exactly right like the fact that everybody's packing a three inch reach and now can potentially sneak six inches around means support heroes aren't safe if they're trying to hide behind the line because suddenly you're like you're way out there effectively getting like nine inches deep to start whacking at them right so you can get pretty deep you're real deep yeah absolutely oh i know so the the this is like it's a great ability i like it like master clan rules it's fantastic i mean i don't know i don't know what else to say sam what's what's your take on this one i love this this has so much utility and you can do so many meaningful things with it i think the thing that i've been playing around with at the moment is the clan eschen um the deceiver the vermin lord so he gets to teleport six inches away um the named clandestine unit get to deep strike six inches away and then you give a block of six rat ogre's plus three to charge and um if you're rat ogre's then hit a three inch charge you know both your other units are getting in uh and then because of the the sequencing the the named death master fights first so he fights then his friends pile in then the deceiver piles in yeah he leaves after his fort and then the um you basically have three hammers all fighting before the opponent even gets to choose and then the amount of shooting from the deceiver and the the unit of gutter runners it is not inconsequential it's enough to pick off screens and it's enough to pick off stuff sitting behind screens so you can do three activations in a row one of which the character then runs away afterwards one of which the the monsters done a roar or done a stomp or whatever as well um before your opponent gets to choose and the the damage potential damage output there is is significant it's not dissimilar to idoneth in term three and uh you can do that any turn of the game so you you don't have to use it as an alpha but you've always got it up your sleeve yep yep um and so to answer a question in the comments somebody said can you can you use the command ability to set a run to six and then make everybody run six no you can't because the it specifically says after you make a run roll and that's not what setting the run to six does it just adds six inches to your movement instead of rolling so okay good stuff boom boom plans molder the one you're probably not gonna have three of because the bonus doesn't do anything i don't know why we took away the ability to bonus rat ogres that could have been cool but i mean i understand we integrated some of the buffs directly into rat ogres which is fine we'll talk about that but but still would have been neat uh at any rate now what you do is you get a pick a bonus for your help it abomination so like now i will say that might make you think every time you take a master molder which is your only mortal molder hero um hashtag vermin lord for molder win uh but like you you're you just automatically put a help it in no no no no no master molders are perfectly fine they are functional they don't need this rule they they don't care about this rule and for rat ogres for my money are a better buy than a help it in basically every situation ever uh so you know if you take three you get to add stuff to all your help hits so if you're the weirdo no judgment but if you're the weirdo who's like all master molders and help hits and that's what you're looking for okay you can you can do that you can take some some fun weird different help hits so um i try to help it in my game against lumineath um i got tech natoed he rolled the five or six to get the d six mortal wounds i failed the warpstone spikes he took five mortal wounds and then the sentinels shot him and it was only 20 sentinels in this particular unit they shot him and spiked 12 mortal wounds into him and he dropped dead and then i rolled a one and he died great use of that guy could have been better so that was fun uh at any rate um it is like there is fun to be had with help hits i don't want to we'll talk about them when we get to their scroll but these are fine there's there is a couple of decent options on this table if you're interested in having a help it and um so yeah there you go cool uh uh yes that is a good point the help it gets an upgrade without even one master molder yes that is true okay uh i skipped right straight with that one past you guys's take because i don't think it was going to be any different than mine i just didn't think anything more to say about 100 it's just the least interesting one and it could have been super cool but i think they just knew that like nah these old sculpts man we can't we can't too much incentivize people to play these particular things these are terrible uh what are people going to think if they walk into game stores and see tables full of all of these models from the 90s okay clan action masters of murder so basically with your one hero start the first battle on after determining who has the first term before the first turn begins you pick one enemy hero in the battlefield you add one to hit and wound rolls for all your action units that target that hero not just him everybody plus one to hit and wound cool and it's just attacks by the by so ranged and yeah melee super good if you have three or more action heroes then you add one to hit and wound rolls for attacks made with melee weapons only that target enemy heroes but all enemy heroes so now it's plus one to hit and wound for all your action units against all heroes but only in melee i don't love that they made that distinction i don't know why we just didn't keep the same rule but there you go sam what you take on estians on the on the masters of murder here yeah i think it's good i mean um it certainly is cleaner than all the re-rolls we have previously so there's this thing previously sixes to hit we're exploding hits so you're getting extra hits and then you're re-rolling to wound um and you roll quite a lot of dice and it was inconsequential so um yeah this is fine i mean it's nowhere near as strong as the master clown one but i still like it and there have been a few small buffs across the ash and war scrolls anyway in terms of what they're hitting and wounding on um that mean ultimately you're getting to to threes to wound which is just as good as re-rolling anyway yeah tom yeah i mean like i think that it's it just strikes me that the um that the word like i think that that that that was a mess up let me just say that for the master assassin i think that it was probably supposed to be melee all along oh and they just forgot it off for the first one yeah they forgot it off the first one because the reality is it's like when i see that that incentivizes me because they have so much shooting to just do one yeah well it's interesting too because they have honestly i think some really strong heroes that you can very easily find yourself including three of in an army right so it's kind of an interesting paradigm there yeah so it just strikes me that when i when i saw that i was like oh so they want me to not do three yeah sure sure um and so that that given the design of the rest of stuff that seems like just simply like a mistake um the plus one to hit and wound i like i like that i like the idea that it's on the range attacks given that like there's just a proliferation um uh it makes me want to run ashen i'm not gonna lie yeah if only okay uh clan verminus this is the weird one so basically your verminus heroes but not all of them just the claw lord not the warbringer the one who i want to be doing cool stuff with uh he gets his other claw lord gets his own heroic action and so when you use it you can pick a command trait we'll talk about the command traits in a moment and basically he gets it now you can double stack a command trait so if you happen to make a claw lord general he can he can get two like he can have one and then absorb a second one if he uses this heroic action so that's cool neat stuff there and if you have three or more claw lords which is like a very that is an unusual build to say the least not just verminus heroes like everybody else not the good verminus hero i want to put in a list and i built lists around no no i gotta have three stupid claw lords which are fine i like claw lords i mean i own seven painted claw lords so whatever um you then everybody gets to do it right like everybody gets to do the heroic action it breaks the normal rule you can all go all three of them are all three plus get to command trait up but they just can't pick the same one um there is some interesting you know like things you can sort of pick into here it's not it's not a complete nothing burger um but it's it's not amazing sam it's this pointless like it's a there's a plus two attacks one which potentially like will be nice and there's one where you ignore the first two wounds each phase which could potentially be nice but there yeah there's there's nothing you would design a list around with with these in mind right right tom it's okay yeah exactly it's fine that's yes uh clanscrier uh hey did you like warpstone sparks cool well they still do what they did before basically i mean there's a few very minor changes around the edges but nothing of consequence they were great before they're great now if you take three heroes you get d6 plus three sparks instead of d3 plus three sparks that's the difference cool great a plus sparks are awesome they they did amazing things before they still do amazing things now they let you re-roll casts and unbinds and dispels they let you give plus one damage to shooting units you want to give plus one damage to and if you're a psychopath like me who often gets in fights with his archwarlock you can get plus one to to hit and and wound rolls for that guy um because i want my rat and power arm to go mess people up um so anyways they're all good they're all fun they're sparks they work like they did before they were great before they're great now great uh clan pestilence same thing again but there is some minor changes like you still have your great plagues the difference is this one's a really interesting way that they incentivize this when you make a chanting roll for our clans pestilent priests you can add one to that chanting roll for each other friendly clans pestilent priests holy within 13 of the caster so like that's kind of how they're incentivizing it right like the more priests you're around ritualing together it's great you get bonuses which is cool great um i will state this does apply to any uh chant they make not just to the pestilence prayers so like let's say you took curse which is normally on a four if you've got like a couple other priests around you can get that down to a two pretty easy or you're standing near a a knoll hole you can get that onto a two because that also adds one so um in addition if the chanting roll for a friendly prayer is a six plus is a six plus yes plus matters yes it matters a lot because i just mentioned that there are ways to get like many bonuses to this role like if you've got a couple plague priests hanging out together and they're near a knoll hole uh some this is going to try prayers prayers still always fail on ones though right yeah but the first great prayer you choose is re-roll cast prayers for the rest of the game so term one the first guy goes to cast a prayer um rolls a two yeah counts as a six plus the rest of the army's re-rolling and then there's a battle tactic built into this one as well where you just need to successfully cast three prayers so you can you can do that relatively easily yep uh and i mean they did up some of these plagues in uh some ways to to be good obviously like undilit scourge um is a nice horde killer uh bubonic blight plague starting off a 2d6 mortal wounds they're still all like you have to pick the closest thing when you do it so that can very much limit 13 inches and the closest thing within that range so that can very much still limit what you happen to pick and how useful it is but they're cool they're because they're easier to fire off now so you can actually have multiple great plagues occur um during a a round i in the game against luminous a funny thing happened where my uh plague sensor that was stuck because all of its escorts had been killed so just sitting always always that's the way it happens uh he rolled and hit the six up and the closest unit was that the lrl antelope hero you know they're like not the named one yeah the mountain yeah no no the little the dude who showed up from tirion like the little the mounted hero who has the night uh yes yeah yep i cannot remember his name but he's got six wounds now teclas is on the board so he has a four up board he's my nearest target he's the only thing i'm going to target with any of these he's not any good in melee so i didn't pick red maw even though i could have picked red maw like he wasn't he he wasn't fighting me he wasn't threatening you yeah yeah he wasn't in combat with me in any way and he was what's he gonna do turn around and do no damage to wardens because that's who he was adjacent to and i'm like that's whatever so i picked bubonic blight plague and i was like let's give this a shot 2d6 mortals six wound hero unwounded with a four up ward incredibly unlikely i kill him roll the dice boxes 12 mortal wounds i'm like okay on stats i kill him course the four up board breaks against me he gets seven successes the dude lives it's a tragedy it's a tragedy because then i don't get to carry the the mortal wounds on but it was still fun moment it was it was a nice and that's what this generates this generates those like wacky moments like that so it's good uh i think priest priests are really good in this edition so yeah if you look at if you look at the the way that seraphon function they they're relying on four wound skink priests daughters of kain have a high reliance on priests um bias layers storm cast there's a lot of there's a lot of priests that actually matter in this game and being able to smite at distance and because that's also a six plus for the additional wounds yeah being able to smite at distance um and then being able to proc a great plague means you can really threaten those units and then being able to teleport and shoot and your shooting range is greater than the the nine-inch gap means that um you can put a lot of pressure on really important support heroes from your opponent's army from term one and then that can affect the way they deploy that can affect the way they play it's really really strong i love the changes that they've they've made to pestilence my only issue um is having the the hero slots available because there are so many support heroes that skaven have that you're now wanting to take to utilize your allegiance abilities right and you're now wanting to take to get access to some amazing artifacts we'll touch on shortly yep yep absolutely oh we we're going to talk i mean i will say like yes some of those are just blatantly just like over the top strong um but i really like the pestilence like when i looked at this the package this is the one that appealed to me the most and not because it's nervel but just because of of all of the boxes that it ticks of all the different things that it's doing sure oh yeah and there's there's some like pestilence got a glow up overall yeah and um for anyone that that's that missed our previous skaven video i'll recap the redmore so the the redmore gives us access to the unit and we're we're treating it as a friendly unit we're able to use abilities on its war scroll so we can we can redmore kairos and use his once per game dice manipulation to make sure he bops a blue horror on the head i'll make that an auto hit or whatever and we can use gotrek and and fight twice and all those things so just yeah be aware that there there are some some uses there where particularly because you've got the the teleport you can teleport to six or nine inches away from characters and you're on a small base there are some uses there where it's worth trading a priest knowing you'll certainly die um but potentially gaining control of our kion or or whomever it might be burning pennies in lrl let's do this yeah sure just like immediately that unit pennies to to block to not only burn its penny but also block the other pennies from being so you can't use anymore that's right yeah yep okay uh command traits all right i just want to say one thing about this layout person at gw who did this to you who made you do this this the person who is employed to do their professional normally extremely high quality layouts and gw really has beautiful beautiful books their layout people are awesome please tell me who made you do this because i believe they committed a crime against you you may have legal recourse okay i can put you in touch with people because this is horrendous horrendous no layout person in the universe chose this this was a dictate from somebody okay so they're still separated by clan i mean not really but yes but yes but on the page they're just it's just it's bold it's bold after bold so there's no indentation no you don't even know like as this ability matter now it's a requirement the number of times i've scanned for the thing i'm looking for and started in the wrong place and then had to be like wait i gotta might do i need to go up or down it's just wild okay there's a little Easter egg in here because that verminus um said you can take the command traits from page 70 or page 71 i was like all the verminus are on 71 only when i saw that did i realize that the very first one isn't contingent on being part of a clan if they hadn't had the if they hadn't had the verminus thing i don't know how long it would have taken me to work out my deceiver can get extra attacks yeah yeah no absolutely you know why that it's just so so anyways this is all wild but like i don't know you normally i say everybody tell me your favorite man a lot of these are worth discussing because there's actually some really interesting things going on in command traits in this book so i guess let's just kind of talk them through briefly and then if we have nothing to say we'll just move on like if there's nothing to say we won't say anything fair enough yeah okay devious adversaries is exactly what you just said that's the generic one if you fight within within three inches of an enemy unit that is not yet fought so very easy to achieve depending on how you just position your guy you don't even have to have be the one who fought first obviously because if they're within two units you can trade around and all that uh you add two to the attacks characteristic of this general's melee weapons great not a specific melee weapon all their melee weapons some people have multiple melee weapons for example super useful um yeah good great i like it it's very useful if you're building a combat guy yep war bringer to savor love this corrupta oh yeah yep uh so out of the master clan ones maybe this is how we tackle this okay uh there is one that i like out of the three master clan ones okay which is just master magic you can reroll casting dispelling and unbinding rolls for this general why not just have the same named but better version of the universal command trait because this is all not one spell yeah so that's the good one um i don't like the whole stealing people like i don't like the way those command this this thing works i hate these abilities this is a personal thing like the diabolical schemer where we're within 13 inches of them they try to issue a command you roll a five up that it doesn't get received um but they still lost the point and then you gain one it's just a total kick in the nuts um for no reason and it's also really easy to avoid and gain me because they can just like oftentimes uh they can oftentimes just have the model be slightly outside of range and still issue into range and stuff like that so i just don't like this thing at all but i don't know sam take on any of the master clan stuff master magic every time particularly if you're running the um the warp series your general yep yep absolutely it is his best friend mr i have an awesome spell that's on an eight cast right like yeah he likes that reroll a lot uh all right molder style uh okay so molder if you want to make a 90 point hero with with five wounds and a five up save your general which is a bold move but let's say you're gonna do that okay okay then your reward for that can be he can get the same three upwards so he might be survivable so you can burn your whole command trait just to make this little idiot survivable fine where he can pass wounds to units basically you can get molder supreme which is plus one to hit and wound rolls for attacks made by friendly fighting beast units holy within 13 which sounds amazing if there wasn't so many better ways to get those exact same bonuses in other places um but okay and then uh horde master with let which lets you three up replace a destroyed unit um okay cool but well inability the master molder also has so cool but it doesn't take a command point to use it here so can we i know we talked about the formatting but can i just ask a question sure why didn't each clan just get a page uh-huh or a box something i don't know just like a page like because you can put like command traits on the top items on the bottom we're done they could have gone farther you have to flick to fund the synergy it could have been the special ability as well yeah right it could have been like here's your molder thing here's the command traits here's the artifacts we could have done it like that it would have broken their normal format but it would have been so much more readable yes i i don't know tom i don't know they're paying by the page inflation man i'll tell you what it's crazy okay are any of would any of these ever sam would any of these ever make you want to take a molder general no perhaps this is future proofing maybe we're we're getting a mold a hero in tom's expansion book yes yes there we go yeah if i get like a sweet molder vermin lord or something or they bring back like a you know root horror yeah exactly the brood horror you remember the old vermin a sky on brood horror right if but bring that back but make it like a master molder on brood horror which would make more sense anyways uh like that would be fantastic then i could be all in on something like molder supreme that'd be great have that dude running up there going wild with all his boys beside him sure sure but yeah right now it's it's a that's gonna be a no for me dog that's gonna be a pass all right eschen stuff uh clan eschen hero this general counts as two eschen heroes for the purposes the trait so funny it's that's just the most hilarious thing to me to burn a command trade on like what oh my gosh uh shot so okay that's unrivaled unrivaled killer by the way is the name of that i don't know what part of that makes you an unrivaled killer because that that ability because he counts as two awesome yeah we are one awesome we are overselling that in the name it's so offensive because this same rule used to be rerolled a hit which was brilliant with his with his high high value attacks um you know that's that's a no that's a big no that's a big no uh and then shadow master um here uh this general cannot be picked as the target of attacks with missile weapons while they're in one inch of a terrain feature um not bad but honestly not needed usually for reasons we're going to talk about later yeah it's redundant that's a redundant one yes and then the one you actually take which is amazing uh and that is incredible agility this one's undersold like unrivaled killer he's quick way over hyping incredible agility okay this general can fly first of all that is some very incredible agility i've seen some olympic gymnasts who are amazing i don't think they can just fly they don't just get themselves to japan by just walking to the coast and jumping so at any rate in addition you can carry out the their finest hour heroic action with this general twice in the same battle instead of once you know that he sounds like an unrivaled killer yeah yeah exactly so yes giving exactly what you said earlier you know the fact that this army has basically no flight and this adds a flight usually what's going to be onto a vermin lord sever um who is then a very mobile very high powered threat who can also then go into finest hour twice um it's just it's just great like this is great this is what you want to command trade it's great okay cool uh that is a good point house he said um uh yeah they can unleash on you if you happen to charge them and stay near terrain with the with the shadow master which is true that is that is a benefit i don't know that it's worth picking here i've got enough chaff i'll usually just show something else in first picture okay uh verminous stuff we all agree incredible agility is the winner right i mean there's no i'll buy a mile it's it's always a debate between that or plus two attacks uh and if you've got a grace here with levitate because they're reliable castors if you've got a grace here with levitate i could see the argument for plus two attacks but for me being able to pile in up to six inches um with fly and then also only having a one range for your really good weapon um it means you probably you want the fly you want to be able to get into to nooks and crannies yep yep absolutely uh verminous valor updated uh so it's for this is now we're into the verminous heroes gives them the three up allocation to you so okay again i guess if you are really concerned about those claw lords staying alive or something like that but the claw lords pair with storm firm in any way right like it just there's a there's a few here that just don't feel necessary given the war scroll changes correct yeah because storm vermin do this on the other side yeah natively so you're often going to have them running together and have this by default um i mean i should say state that you can uh give this to like these are true verminous heroes so you can give this one to a warbringer which is yeah but the warbringer can also be protected by the storm vermin uh savage overlord if a friendly scaven unit within three ends of this general fails a battle shock test you can say they will restore order with savage brutality if you do so that unit has not failed that battle shock test but it suffers d three mortal wounds so great wording there yeah you know it's so funny that you like you are complaining about battle shock this dude can give battle shock to anything nearby yeah if there's any call for a claw lord who's using the heroic action to drop into it it's for this like if you know you're going to get wrecked by something this can be a great thing to like drop into to have a second way to keep it up so it's okay like it's i don't want to poop on it it's not bad and then uh finally powerful alpha the first two wounds or mortal wounds caused to this general in each phase are negated cool i'm pretty strong on a warbringer i'll say that um on a big monster who can who can be relatively tough anything out of there sam anything out of there making you want to make your the warbringer your general anything out of this life yeah i think the warbringer is a sort of character that if you're taking it you're winding him up and you're throwing as many uh attacking buffs on him as possible to to utilize he's already good combat profile so uh even though the durability is nice ignoring the wounds or passing off the wounds i think you're always going plus two attacks on him yeah uh and then yeah as you say you're potentially going to use that um battle shock immunity but if it's your opponent's term when you're doing that you're you're burning a um you're burning your heroic action and there's the potential they just kill the character in addition to damaging the units around the character yeah and then you don't get to utilize it anyway so yeah i think ultimately i'm not i'm not taking a verminous general um in most of my lists agreed uh all right scryer uh so basically this first one rather than read all this ridiculous text i'm just gonna say uh if you have weapon teams that which you can hide all your weapon teams and you can hide a lot of weapon teams in some units but if the unit gets wiped they die too if they haven't been revealed yet yeah which matters because of how the timing on how you reveal them as we'll talk about this overseer of destruction means you don't lose them they just pop out and you know there you go so um okay fine i guess i never like throwing good money after bad just just pop your weapon teams when you need to and then you don't need this ability that's that should be the answer um masterful scavenger for your for two bonus warpstone sparks the start of the game so basically whatever and then deranged inventor the start of your shooting phase you can pick one friendly scryer unit add one to hit rolls for attacks made with missile weapons by that unit until the end of the phase okay cool like a free command plate sure yeah yeah yeah so it basically you can you can yeah you get a free second all out attack for scryer shooting units in the shooting phase so cool combines with the spark perfectly fine again no there's no vermin lord there's no real big scryer heroes either although their main dude is certainly tougher than the molder dude um so that's something uh i like i could see the deranged inventor when having some use depending on your particular list beyond that nothing here really moves me cool all right finally pestilence master of rotten ruin add one to chanting rolls for this general didn't we say something about six plus okay cool yeah you already have a lot of ways to get bonuses but you got to put yeah i mean you you can put this on a significantly tough body i would point out this doesn't have to go in the little priest sure sure sure like this could go on a crofter i get that no i can well he's not oh no he's not a priest he's not it can go on the on the uh plate bonus the yeah yeah which is fine that's perfectly reasonable choice for him um like plus one a chance is good i don't know what else to say it's fine uh architect of death add one to the damage characteristic of missile weapons used by friendly plague claw units holy within 18 of this general who wrote this this is like somebody wrote this as a joke and it got in the book that is hilarious is it a vampire from the old battalion maybe is it so here's here's here's the uh here's the problem they missed they messed up one roll one word okay it should be to the attack characteristic not right correct yes then i would think about it because then those things could be useful but plus like you'll see we get to the play club it's a multi-damage weapon but one is nothing it's not anything in this case on a single attack that's so wild oh my god and then ridden with pox's is just like whatever it's fine really love ridden with pox's i love it it's fine i love it it can splash some mortal wounds it's fine right because i'm gonna put it on uh i'm gonna put it on a furnace and then jam that furnace down their throat and make them deal with it true right and it's just more mortal wounds which is good it's just more damage to everything within three i mean if i had the furnace i'd honestly take the the chant thing just so i could start triggering through great plagues even more like that's what i want it's what i want more than the splash mortal wounds like i'm gonna get more action out of the great i'm gonna get more mortal wounds out of the great plagues popping off regularly than i am out of the the disability that's the issue yeah i mean maybe like my key is that you're gonna have what how many bites at the great plague apple like let's say if you're running three priests right like and everybody's at plus on plus two at least sure that's fire them up i want one every round guaranteed i want to never not be great plaguing well that's what i'm saying like if you have that you're on average like you you're gonna roll for a four plus right on one of the three one hopes yeah one hopes like that extra plus one moving that to one of them on a three plus just like that like that to me is not significant you're not moving the needle as opposed to splashing mortals on what two three four units the advantage to me is then i don't have to keep them all my priests next to each other because that that really restricts them so sam what's your pick out of this lot plus one to chan is is useful uh maybe clan pestilence might be the only clan where you would consider the generic ones so there's the the potential there for the inbuilt reroll the inbuilt reroll of chance yeah high or yeah i think that probably is about it i don't yeah the plus one yeah that's that's the one i'll probably look at for the high priest but again pestilence probably not going to be the general and because of the way they've changed the the composition of units you don't need to have like a scry or you don't need to have a pestilence general anymore you can take whatever you want and and build a hybrid force yeah yeah my only issue with it the reason i like this as opposed to taking just high priest or whatever is because i can trip into the reroll kind of yeah boss like i can build myself into the universal command trait so just you know i got to burn a turn doing that but still that's probably the turn i wasn't in range to actually have anybody get hit by a great plague anyways right like turn one i cast boom i'm now i'm now i'm never ending plaguing we're ready for the money and you know turn two on okay now let's get some let's drop some great plagues right so at any rate okay artifacts uh so insanity so much stuff here again like a lot of these actually have use okay um i'm gonna touch on the ones i think i have you that have some kind of use and and if i miss one then we'll go back to it um noshard no pass scaven brew still amazing like better infinitely better every turn yeah ridiculous ridiculous how good once per turn your hero phase you can pick one of their friendly scaven unit within three inches of the bearer they suffered d3 mortal wounds but you had one of the attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by that unit until your next hero phase incredible anything in scaven few mortal wounds great great classic artifact going back i still have my i picked up the book by the way sam when i was at adept con i had lost it i they've had it on the shelf day one i went up and bought it i got it for like as cheap as chips 15 bucks or something uh for the the uh fifth edition scaven okay the multicolored one was great still had all the like pages with the cards and stuff for the the magic items and so yeah okay so anyways um you know that that but that that item has a legacy scaven brew's been around for a while um what was the sword what was the sword that did strength 10 d6 d6 damage the dune blade the um that have been uh no no is the weeping blades were the small one and then there was yeah the weeping blades the little one fell something the fell blade yeah you got a blade there we go i got there okay sorry uh it's a one watch no no it's okay i want the fell blade back so badly like it was shattered during the end times uh the fell blade was make a new one we made it we made new people up who are dead and they came back can't make a new sword somebody can't go on a mission and retrieve the shards or whatever you know find them floating in the nether regions okay anyways staff a rightful supremacy i think could have some play especially in this especially in the current world we're talking about since it's just going to be purple suns and crap all the way down uh subtract one from casting rolls for enemy wizards within 13 that's a fine enough thing it's not going to often uh it's not going to often be relevant but whatever the and then in addition once per bow in your hero phase when you attempt to dispel and end the spell that and the spell is automatically dispel you don't make a roll so you can just shut something off you do have a lot of bonuses to to cast and unbind and to spell and stuff but certainly it's still useful to not worry about that and just be like now this purple sun's gotta go sun right or or whatever okay so that's okay any thoughts so far scavenger is a big winner out of this stuff so far yeah yeah i agree uh skip on the lash rabid crown i'm in for this one i'm in like flin for this artifact this is like my second artifact to pick up all the time uh clan molder hero only add one to hit rolls for attacks made by molder fighting beast and pack units holy within 13 of the bear fantastic as we'll get to later they have a their own built-in plus one to wound they can add so this gives you plus one to hit and wound effectively um it applies to both pack and beast units so you know basically everything you'd want it's great it's a great item simple plus one to hit is good so there you go and then the funny artifact if you want to try to make your current molder hero tough the foul hide the bearer has a wounds characteristic of 10 so the word you can put an artifact on them to give them the worst wounds characteristic in the game and in addition at the start of your hero phase you can heal one wound allocated to the bear cool cool doesn't make him a monster or anything it just makes them 10 but 10 wounds benefit from it just makes it 10 wounds so they can't benefit from anything yeah i think you want you want them to be survivable if that plus three to charge matters if if the you're trying to pair it with the master clan ability having the having twice the wounds and healing one per turn i sort of have had some lists where i've had this in but then ultimately if if the points allow or heroes lots allow maybe it's just better to have a second pack master um but it's yeah it's all just going to come down to the the composition of the list yep agreed yep i mean worst case you could always just squeeze in some regular pack masters as stupid as that is yeah the unit yep yeah the actual unit like it is doable you can you can get that same bonus out of them so you don't necessarily have to have the hero to get the heart to harvest that bonus uh all right cool uh the shadow magnet trinket would be cool if it was strike first all the time but it's just once i don't really need it the far skitter cloak would be cool if it let you teleport all the time it doesn't let you teleport once i don't really need it and then we come to the one that i would take and have taken and loved which is the gnaw bomb with the new way that gnaw holes work turning random pieces of terrain into a gnaw hole is wildly good now like man that thing is incredible because i like you know i had a game where i needed to recall a bunch of units back to kill a threat that had ended up in my back line turned a random piece of terrain into and he had a unit within three inches of my gnaw hole but he didn't have anybody within three inches of this piece of terrain boom gnaw hold it and i had units all over near other gnaw holes that just like jup jup jup everybody's jumping in and just flooding back back home to the new gnaw bomb and then just explode them this is great this is a super wombo combo piece it's optionality man sam what do you what do you think about ash and stuff yeah this this plays into the grand strategy as well if we're doing that one we want to have more units in their deployment zone um it's very hard for them to to zone out all of the terrain late game like maybe early game when you got a full army sure but once there's been a bit of trading i think that the the gnaw bomb could could pick you up the the grand strap points almost every game uh i love the the shadow magnet trinket because it enables you to do things with your vermin lord like put him in front of their army uh outside of nine so they can't shoot at him once they've done their movement maybe they need to make some long charges to get in you then activate it and then retreat with him before they've had an opportunity to activate like the the sequencing stuff is really important in this book and there's a lot of stuff like for instance it might be their turn and you want to proc the master clan piling so by using the fight first he piles in an attacks and then the rest of your army piles in in their turn before they've had an opportunity to do anything and that can be really significant i think this i think it plays into the johnny the johnny element of um scaven really well but equally so does the the gnaw bomb uh and the gnaw bomb creates that really interesting um question or interaction of mechanics where you can have models stuck in impossible frozen there i don't know how that i don't know how that plays out of maybe that's an ask ask a to one but on the the face of it rules is written i would say that they are incapable of moving yeah they get turned to stone when you knob them they fall into the pool for a little while apparently until it until it with your fat goes away so yep uh it's a clipping issue yeah they yeah the id clip right through that right through the uh right through the terrain oh no uh so yes ask your to on that one i i know already that's on the faq list of like hey how does this work so uh please tell us because yes you just you just you made people stand on impassable terrain which theoretically they can't move over so but now so what do we do now okay verminus uh which i actually like basically all the verminus artifacts i think they could have uses which is unusual um i'm glad to see we called back to two classic pieces of verminan or of of our back here here yeah the shield of distraction baby uh so the bearer cannot be picked as the target of a combat attack by more than one unit per phase you can't see it there because it's kind of it's very faint text but it actually says suck it tom's very particular night haunt list uh where he wants to come attack you with like five juice heroes and it's like no i don't know one of them get to swing i guess pick the one the rest of them i guess to stand still so we'll see how many people take that artifact yeah it's it's an interesting one uh like i don't i don't hate it uh rust cursed armor add one to save roles for attacks target the bearer so first of all you've already got me i like where we're at already i'm happy with this so far plus one to save is good okay and then in addition you get a wacky ability that you'll use fail on the vast majority of the time but we'll sometimes kill an artifact and that will be fun it doesn't matter you took it for the plus one to save so it's always useful um and then sometimes you'll eat other people's artifacts which is kind of a neat fringe benefit and then finally i mean the boy so good uh the warpstone charm uh subtract one from save roles for enemy units within enemy units within three inches of the bearer at the start of your hero phase will die on a one the bearer suffers d three mortal wounds this is what we call verminus in the front uh purple sun in the back we don't have saves so you don't get saves either okay uh great that that kickback of slightly having a chance to wound yourself could be i could not care less yeah whatever this pairs so perfectly on the warbringer because he just he just goes and messes people up with this um yeah love it love it maybe it's obviously or unleashing the purple sun behind him and then he comes up this way i was thinking all your lists start with festus as well festus bottles and suddenly they're at minus three um yeah and then and come the plague months so i mean yeah absolutely i yeah i like all these i mean sam what should you take on on this crop i think warpstone charm stands apart but they could all have some use yeah warpstone charm is excellent and it's the sort of thing you can build a list around because you have a high volume low rend army so that that's a really nice synergy for the way the book plays and it also just pushes your vermin lords that that's slight level up you know in the age of save stacking it cancels out their their all that defense or it cancels out their mystic shield and then you're using your native rent or rent three which is great and the um just with the brave everyone briefly you've got an inbuilt minus one to bravery on your war scroll you're you're terrifying if you're a vermin lord so it's sort of 2d6 plus one to to beat the bravery which is marginally better yep cool good stuff uh esoteric warp resonator does what it always did you get an extra spark at the start of each battle round so cool i don't i've never really found it to be that necessary you generally have enough sparks to spark what you need to spark but if you're if you find yourself low hey there it is um vial of the fulminator still around for those psychopaths like myself who have four doom wheels and want to run the doom wheel thing and uh double their move characteristics so those guys are just zooming all over the board causing mortal wounds so fun times for that it's it's obviously just the the meme list uh and then the interesting one oh boy oh boy oh boy speaking in speaking of getting into weird artifacts that are johnny time extravaganza the brass orb avoided this change once per battle at the start of your hero phase so it's at the start this is all very relevant again the sequencing thing like you mentioned sam right you can pick one enemy unit within six inches of the bear and roll a die on a three plus remove that unit from the battlefield they're gone now at the end of that turn your opponent must set up that unit again on the battlefield wholly within their territory and more than nine inches from all enemy units now sorry shadow queen yeah yes of course uh stewart wanted 20 minutes of discussion on this that will not happen there is a goofy sort of wombo combo thing here obviously with vanishing half of marathi and then just plowing into the other half of marathi who just not have who could no longer transfer her wounds since her counterpart is you know error 404 not found at the moment and then she just dies you just kill her okay once she's removed the other one can't come back it's how about how about this i mean sure that's not where my head went sure i'm just going to zone them out so they can't actually put the model back on the table yes the brass orb is super cool because it's just fascinating with you you could potentially block them out from putting it back on the table with some especially in some of the smaller deployment zones um it could also just mean for very slow moving units that they just don't really actually participate in the fight that much anymore depending on where your right so sam what do you think brass orb is it a winner it's it's hard to execute so the rules are really strong but it's going on a squishy character and it's at the start of your it's at the start of your hero phase so oh this is a play for a double um this is a play for a double strategy and um that means it's really low probability of going off um but if it does go off it's brilliant i i like getting rid of gotrek he's so slow oh getting rid of um getting rid of rk on like there's there's a whole heap of um a whole heap of plays with this and i think to tom's point it's relatively easy to zone with this army with however many teleports yeah and double pylons you can actually utilize the double pylons to like swing the vermin lord's massive base around and cover a big nine inch circle around in like there's there's a heap of stuff that you can play into it and if it's your strategy um it's an out it's not the only out like you don't build your army around getting the brass or blood off once and removing one unit but um it's just an additional thing that you can draw down on over the course of the game well like balacor is strong right this is a very short range functionally removed from whatever right yeah but again it is very battle plan dependent right because it is battle plan dependent yeah the territories and what their territory is matters a lot if it's one of the if it's that goofball awful scenario that looks like this where the red and the blue are just meeting in in the middle they're they're going to have a lot more optionality of where they set back up than if you're in the one with with this tiny rectangle sure so and then finally pestilence uh yeah there's some good stuff here the blade of corruption pick one of your bearer's melee weapons if the unmodified wound roll for that weapon is a six that weapon has a rend characteristic of neg three and a damage characteristic of six for that attack hello that's that escalated quickly i mean that obviously that has corrupt or rewritten all over it oh god yes yes a hundred percent uh so that's great uh the fumigate is skip and blistavus the living cyst uh if you like strike first effects yo dog i heard you let i heard you like strike first effects depending on what you've got going it has to jump around still like the that hilarious interaction but you can obviously control that depending on how many heroes you happen to have or what they're doing it just means in every other turn it's on your furnace sure like it just depends like if you if you uh if you only had the corruptor well then you're taking the blade of corruption but if you happen to have two corruptors maybe you give the second one the living cyst and you wait and you get real excited for the turn it jumps over because you get to the to the guy who also has the blade of corruption that's going to be a real winning turn for that dude yep so or just a little plague priest who's like got it for no reason and then he just hands it off in round two so whatever yeah sam which thoughts man i love it yeah it's so so cool so you can go to the um the blade of corruption then plus two attacks from your uh command trait and then plus one attack from a prayer and then plus one attack from the scaven bruise you can get him up to two d six plus four um which just 16 attacks of that weapon would be wild and then there is easy for him to get plus one to hit and wound as well so um that's really nice and yeah i i've mentioned numerous times already struck first is brilliant just as a generic rule but in this specific army it's it's even more impactful so uh i really like these ones you just yeah you've sort of pushed into double command on taraj or double warlord um with this army you really want the addition enhancements they're just so valuable yep i didn't say at the beginning but i have not built one of these lists yet where i care at all about unified i was like no no no no no we're this you're all the chaff and mobility yeah your chaff and mobility mean you love being high drop you you show them nothing you've got six rats on the board or something and then and then you're getting all these other benefits and you're happy going first or second because of your reach um yeah yeah and you can also keep a lot of your army off board so it could be that like the whole time there yeah yes you can no deploy with this army um but it could very well be that you just sort of like the even in like even if that's not your strat if you're not going full no deploy it could be very reasonable to by the time they're done dropping you have not put anything on the board and so your entire setup is just deployment that is completely reactionary to everything they've done right and you've just got like gutter runners and crap like that just often reserves ready to ready to go party um so it's a it's a winner uh absolutely just a million drops all the drops which i love like i love not having to worry about battle reg at all i'm like no i want all the toys all the toys okay spell lures somehow the the grace ears need to hit the books again uh they just really need to hit up the they haven't been studying hard because now they're down to three spells i don't know where the rest of them went the big guy still no other versions but they're like nah don't remember those shame for them scorch which is bad skitter leap which is amazing at death frenzy which is very useful and um and our uh not there we go our friend in the formatting department forgot a line so it just says grace here only it doesn't say including unique so i'll make thankfuls for got me until they fix it yeah which is um a little bit frustrating it's super frustrating um i'm i'm sure it gets eroded right because it has been everywhere else but it's just yes every other unique heroes that are of the appropriate type can always take the lore specific spells in fact often i would point out they just know the entire lore yeah yep or master of it yeah but we to get neither of those things not only does dank will not know the whole lore which he should he should just have the ability that says he knows all three of these spells like who cares what's he getting 20 spells his his his choosing between skitter leap or death frenzy every game so all you're doing effectively is giving him both which he which he can then do if you take the the trait anyway you wouldn't because the the enhancements are so good um and just with the with the death frenzy we've we've retained our language which i thought some of these things might get cleaned up but it's until your next hero phase any models in that unit are slain so no mention of how they're slain um which means you can proc this yourself with your scaven brew give yourself extra attacks and then and then prod away it means that you can be shot and you can kill things when you're shot uh there's there's a whole host of interactions where that becomes meaningful uh and i've had situations where i've used death frenzy um and been able to kill a screen that i'm in combat with and it's just it's brilliant you know those situations where you've got a hero on one wound left that you're fighting against or whatever and it's uh yeah there's there's ways you can proc it yourself which is quite nice yep yep it's pretty great uh so um like yeah it's good death frenzy i'm amazed it still works like it does and i'm happy it still works like it does so good stuff uh lore of warp volt galvanism so uh surprisingly we've done nothing to fix the uh horrible imbalance in this lore like this is the most phoned in lore uh what we did is we took more more warp power and said it's still the best it just works different now now it's plus one to hit wound instead of fine fine sure i'll take it it's fine yep okay cool cool beans still does the same thing in the context of this army and the way that my lists are being built chain warplining might be the worst spell in the game the casting value is seven right and it hits all of your units within 13 i've actually got like 10 units around my heroes yeah it i think it is 10 mortal wounds to my own army uh huh i mean i'll take this in slanesh all day where's where's this spell in slanesh they're looking for this spell well the right answer here by the way is actually to do a doubles event with slanesh skaven yeah i mentioned earlier the the the the the horrific combination of these two things so it's a shame they need to buddy up in the lore that way we can have some some skaven allies over in slanesh town well i already know what uh i already know what your warlord is going to be you can print him yeah sure absolutely uh all right so yeah it's still more more war power fine dandy yep 100 and then prayer scriptures um i mean like legitimately all of these are good yeah you have a five up horde killer you have a plus one to wound rolls uh buff and you have a plus one to attacks buff yes please like yep these are all things i wanted to do on an answer value of three it's great good sim yeah you're potentially wanting to take an additional prayer so you can still take heal and so you can still take curse because the these like all of these you just want optionality right or maybe you want fill fill filth and rabbit rabbit on the same guy so you can choose which buff is it that he needs to be putting out this particular turn um these are all these are so good yeah particularly when um you look at the way you can stack buffs on sense of errors these are yeah i'm sure we'll get too shortly these are insanely powerful oh we will i would also point out by the way that these have a 13 inch range but it's not holy with it it's just with you know so you only need to tail to to drop this prayer on somebody which is amazing and again this is this is the that's the kind of little detail like the thing that happened with death frenzy the thing that the lore of warp vault when i was referencing at the beginning that it doesn't feel like it got the full amount of like love and attention this is the kind of stuff i'm talking about right right like it's just there's weird things like this that just don't feel like how every other battle to him is well it's not a third edition battle to him like those are not third edition like rules writing yeah there's just some weird choices so hey i look i'm not gonna complain cool for now i can just tag one the corner of one dude's little base and drop it on the whole unit so thanks i guess checks out and now we jump straight to war scrolls uh you might have guessed that there was a page that was dedicated to um grand strats and battle tactics it's weird when i looked in the book i uh i didn't see it so i guess it must not be there uh i i guess we don't have to worry about it no i mean obviously they do have it i'm just choosing to ignore it because i think they should be banned from tournaments so that's my stance why um why did we not get our own battalions yeah there's no there is truly no no battalions in this that is why not like because that's that that that was an opportunity where we could have again same story again right like just there's things missing yes we have no no specific battalions which by the way i could have written 10 additional core battalions now because there's so many classic that's why yeah these these battalions and these pairings whatever i i don't know it's a great question it's because this book didn't get the same level of love and attention so okay okay thank wool on bone ripper big daddy thank wool 14 wounds four up save five up word uh things that are relevant about him his power behind the throne got so much better i don't know if there is an ability in any book that hasn't that is that wins the mvp award more than this because the old version of this was terrible the new version of this is amazing once we're about around this unit can issue the same command up to two times the same phase if it does so each man must be received by a friendly scaven unit no command point is spent the second time this unit issues that command fantastic do you want like this is actually a fairly command heavy army like a lot of people retain command abilities you're pretty hungry for command points so uh yeah great good good stuff staff of the horned rat gotta go up starts at plus three to cast now on his new wound chart that's amazing uh this dude's a powerhouse caster because he's like starting at nagash and can you stand near uh uh uh warple not uh yeah no it suddenly be plus four wonderful um so that's great uh his work with the re-roll now doesn't it so it used to be you could use the plus or the re-roll it was an or now it's a both so i mean for the warp stone addiction the three yeah yeah the way i read it this is going to need another f aq because they did change the wording here okay and i i agree with your reading i think they're allowing you to carry the bonus over to the 3d6 to effectively what you end up casting there but let me hit it in a second yeah sure sorry no no you're good you're good man it's all good because it's you're right it is very relevant it leads right to that ability it used to be that he healed in the hero phase now at the end of the combat phase you heal d3 wounds which is amazing because it doubled his healing yeah it's at both combat phases which is wonderful his braziers and projectors still work the same so it's still like ward units die to mortal wounds and or hard punches which is cool and yeah so warp stone addiction can this actually work now uh with the that's weird huh okay that's weird hold on a second my my i watched the comments in two places and one of them it stopped showing me the comments on there we go now it's caught up so i wasn't seeing all your wonderful comments uh okay here we go so the way warp stone addiction works is once per turn you can attempt when you attempt to cast a spell you can consume a warp stone token and roll 3d6 um this roll cannot be re-rolled or modified that specific 3d6 roll which makes sense because if it's a 13 then the spell is successfully cast and cannot be unbound however he takes d6 mortal wounds okay which he does still get his own save against which is cool they didn't add like the um the and cannot be negated or something which sometimes does show up in this book um and then if the 3d6 roll is not a 13 remove one dice of your choice and use the remaining 2d6 as the casting roll now because that doesn't have the unmodified clause it's only that initial 3d6 yeah my read is once per round this dude can go 3d6 plus 3 or you know 3d6 it's not 3d6 plus 3 3d6 take the two you want that's where you are yeah yeah yeah which is cool that's a again this dude just becomes a monster caster for his two spells so like this dude can drop that purple sun like it's hot like no doubt he's rolling that bad boy out so cool good uh and madness is still terrible great next the worst yeah a shocking spell it is shockingly bad uh wow i mean just like it's he was just this dude's crushing it right with every one of his rules you're like yeah yeah yeah and we get to madness and i'm like oh this is still the same crap spell okay cool i guess i guess we just didn't feel like the you know great gracey or needed a spell worth casting listen gw i don't know if you think this is ever used in a game but this spell is worthless like straight up worthless worthless you have to see that three inch range and a hero only target like guys how many gates does a spell need to get behind okay it also casts on eight which isn't so hard for him because it why is it so bad because it doesn't do anything like your best case here is you pick somebody who has a lot of attacks and then you get some mortal wounds uh thankless 415 points and worth it he's not really he's he's 445 points because he comes it's thankful on bone ripper on boat so so let's just talk about launching the soul seeker here shall we i mean this is where we talk about launching sam walk us through why launching is this guy's best friend why this dude just might as well come with the boat many many moons ago thankful came on an appropriately sized base and then he was subsequently reboxed for an unknown reason i think they changed the warhammer branding and the new box came with a skateboard so he's on this small thin base despite being uh a rat riding a far larger rat and that that base just fits in to thankles not thankful to launches footprint so he's got this little three inch circle around him or three inch oval around him and what it means is that thankful can now move at the end of the hero phase noting we've just said inches yeah 18 inches uh move at the end of the hero phase and then subsequently move in the movement phase so he's 18 plus eight and then he's got these eight inch warp fire projectors what it means is that if anyone has um a large impactful unit like maybe 30 centinals um he effectively nukes the whole they don't anymore right here you know like 30 blade geists i know 30 blade guys is the thing um like there is a number of situations where that is insane and the previous limitation for thankful was that it is just the eight inches and then his move depreciates you know it starts at 10 but it drops all the way down to seven so um the the range was one of the limitations and this just removes that and it also can just get him into positions where he's able to more effectively utilize the double command ability he's able to cast some of the the other spells so it's there's a whole heap of reasons that it's it's really really impactful even just moving him and then knowing in the subsequent turn you're going to be um 3d6 let's say you've you've near a um a no-haul 3d6 plus four 3d6 plus five potentially with some arcane um to so as well so i think um yeah i think he's an obvious that that's an obvious power pair the the two of those guys yeah it's it is wild yes like they can have their sentinels because keep on you actually can get obviously you can get a little more than 18 inches out of movement because he has to be set up yeah of course yeah blah blah blah so of course you're gonna get like about 20 ish out of it and so you just this dude walks forward floats he boats forward right he takes some mortal wound he's got a five up against it even if he takes it who cares because he's gonna heal d3 in the combat phase right and then he's gonna just walk his 10 inch movement up to three inches away from some sentinels or some unit some horde unit and just be like you're all dead bye bye you're dead like you're dead now go away if you build this guy with like two three warp fire projectors basically no horde in the game survives that because it is just a an insane amount of mortal wounds right because you're rolling everybody on the unit four up times x number of projectors right so you basically just lift the unit almost instantaneously even on an underwhelming role even if they have mortal wound protection like even plague bearers will just they're gone if you've got like three warp fire projectors they're not gonna withstand that yeah and he's he's working around their minus one to hit as well so you know the plague bearers natively a minus one tip from shooting this is an ability he doesn't care or doesn't use the attack sequence rather he doesn't care so yeah awesome just awesome yep so he just saunters in the I mean obviously the other trick would launch like yes you can use him like that aggressively as you mentioned he could also be super sneaky right he could like launch it up walk to the perfect position or walk to the perfect position near a knoll hole unleash a purple sun and then just in the movement phase he could just yeah teleport away started very good and all while fulfilling the master clan quota that we're looking for as we're building our army we're saying what can we do to hit three master clan heroes um he's ticking a lot of boxes yes yeah thankful is at 415 they did it they made him worth it which i'm so excited about i've always loved thankful um so i was i was actually thrilled to see oh yeah this guy's actually like he's not in every list he's not an auto include not even close but he's good like you can have lists where this year is functional and good and like he has a use it's great it's the perfect way i want to see special characters work like where he doesn't feel automatic and i don't feel bad for not taking him in lists but i feel like i can put him in a list and have him draw the value equal to his points great a plus work on thank one bone river makes me want to buy a second one and or i guess i suppose i could just repaint mine but where would the fun in that be um all right screech let's talk let's set up some vermin lord stuff here the vermin lords are all 13 wounds four up save 10 bravery basically 12 inch move 1086 yada yada updated wound chart they're all double cast wizards double double up double cast wizards double um binders they all have a five up ward they um for the most part how all have a command ability that is plus one to hit and wound of a particular type of scaven like the the one that aligns with them for the most part we'll talk about it but this guy is just scaven unit when it fights in the combat phase it is a combat phase command ability for plus one to hit and wound so it's just they all just come with like better all out attack yeah right which is again weird that every that like we've been stripping command abilities out of books and yet all the vermin lords kept a command ability and it's just sort of a improved all out attack which is weird but it is what it is um and the doom glaive is now basically across the line uh when you because most of them obviously carry the glaives um six attacks threes and threes neg two two there's a little bit of there is variance on that which we'll talk about where it comes up and then obviously this dude also has the plague reaper off hand which he just gets to make a flat eight attacks with which is funny because he gets more attacks on average than the unwounded corruptor who has two of them like somebody maybe doesn't know statistics i guess of what the average on maybe six he's the king he's the king it's it's fun he's better with one he's just he really working it with that reaper uh okay and the uh and so you know this dude makes like a lot of attacks legitimately and he obviously each round he can drop into one of his 13 headed ones knowledge things which can give him various bonuses so um and he still has a good spell dreaded 13 fun spell um does a you know good number of mortal wounds and if you kill a unit you get little clan rats so it's cool you don't have to kill the unit you just have to do mortal wounds so yeah what do you think screeches 425 which puts him as like you know up there yeah he's he's had a big glow up he's very good so he's increased the rent on the doom glaive increased the damage um moved from a d3 which i don't know i don't know what the maths is but for me d3 average is one um like 99 times out of 100 and then um stuff like being rent three damage three that the turn that he uses the glaive the glaive being three inch range um i don't always was but just which is really significant and the the thing that that is that the access to enhancement that the other vermin lords have pushes them pushes them over the line against him so the other vermin lords you're paying you're paying fewer points and you're getting the opportunity to customize through your trait and artifact whereas he's got the utility built into his ever changing um knowledge whichever knowledge he's using so i think yeah yes screech is unfortunate but just the the enhancements who went through and this is so significant that you just wouldn't take him over one of the um the unnamed vermin lords yeah my i agree with steward here he's a steward said the man who lives inside a bell yes if you're ever taking a screaming bell and you crack it to summon it's like and welcome lord screech vermin king who has turned out to be in there the whole time like this is absolutely who pops out of that bell so yep uh other than that he hasn't made his way into any of my lists i'll say now i don't think he's bad i think you could have a list with him but the problem is if i'm going to use something that's like exactly where he is and what i want to him i end up usually taking thank well um and then otherwise i'm using a vermin lord for a specific purpose and getting the cheaper ones uh the deceiver at 405 bargain basement prices obviously he has his little his little punchy stabby dagger instead of the glaive uh still makes six attacks threes twos um which he sticks with for quite a while uh neg three rend two damage base uh pretty cool um he has his doom star which is still d six attacks which is stupid uh that can't just be a number but sure um it does two mortal wounds if you hit on it now so that's cool um it is funny that this guy's obviously an eschen hero it's funny that all the other eschen heroes figured out eschen toxin even the little night runners have eschen toxin no they're they're not sharing the supply with the boss this guy did not figure out that he should dip his weapons in poison which is funny to me um and yeah i mean he has the plus one to hit and wound for eschen units the big big and he obviously has dreaded skitterleap still which is still amazing casting value of six and you can set up it's a teleport lets you set up six inches away the his shrouded in darkness ability again so good now um he gets mirror shield can't be picked as the target of a shooting attack unless the attacking models within nine inches fantastic fantastic 405 love this guy makes it into a lot of lists tom what do you think of the deceiver yeah i still like him it's funny but i look at this and i i don't know that i would ever take him wow like he's good he's good don't get me wrong he's good but if i'm spending 405 like there's other things i'm going to be spending those points on well i don't know the the the fact that i know he can't be picked off combined with the fact that he's such a wombo combo enabler with dreaded skitterleap sure like literally i'm usually taking him for those two things because he's super survivable unlike the rest of everything else in this game because i can i can just keep him wherever i need to be and he's not going to get shot and that dreaded skitterleap sets up so many combos like i'll we're going to do some lists at the end and i have lists specifically keying off of this and the wackiness you can achieve with this but yeah i just like i'm not going to rely on dreaded skitterleap because we live in a world with wizards like thankful and techless and zeech all yeah sure yeah yeah i get it i mean i'll back his butt for that sure and like like if i'm gonna spend 800 points on two heroes right so if i'm gonna if i'm gonna invest in two hate two big heroes yep he's not at my top two well okay okay so it's gonna be thankful on the war bringer okay and or corrupt or some or and or corrupt or somewhere like you know if i'm doing a pestilence happy sure i can see that like i i think those are also perfectly viable lists i do not disagree with what with that point sam what about you yeah i think tom's just hit on the the core issue when when building lists in this book and that's with we sort of spoil for choice in terms of the viable options and then you've got to determine which is the one that that's going to be the best for the particular list that i'm trying to run so for me um always running a lot of asian units uh wanting wanting to get the the asian buffs in there i'm always taking it as ever like it's it's probably the first the first model i'm picking um but that is more about the style of lists that i'm i'm wanting to play and it leaning into that really heavily and also the building action yeah that's right absolutely the the change from last ghb to this i'm no longer ceding a point for being a monster i'm no longer slay the warlord or bring it down um but all of those changes for me make it incrementally better as well just compared to what i was playing and simple stuff like having the the totem um we'll get to it later the the units that i needed the totem for and now elite anyway but yeah simple stuff like having the totem is also nice there's lots of nice little buffs here but yeah the the deceiver the deceiver to me is is an auto included something i've played with a lot and um i really value right on yeah i should mention yes all of these guys are totems now which is actually pretty cool because they're not always your general there's oftentimes reasons to have you know a couple of these are have other generals and so it's nice that they can all just project that command ability since they all have their own unique command abilities giving them all an 18 inch bubble is actually pretty good so uh steward said all the vermin lords are fighting over a singular match to light their weapons on fire this is not wrong flaming weapon is the pick it's like yep there you go okay corruptor uh so the corruptor is a lot like the rest these guys has a lot of same thing his plague reapers if he is hit role is a six it causes a mortal wound in addition he now makes 2d6 attacks with his plague reapers on three's three's neg 2 2 which is a good attack profile it's like as we said if you're gonna if you really want to lean into it though with like the blade of corruption and all that it's worth mitigating it with some of those other attack bonuses so you're putting him at like 2d6 plus 2 plus 3 plus 4 where all of a sudden you're like really putting out a volume of scary scary attacks and this dude does have lots of options to also put those on to like twos and twos by the way so he can be twos and twos neg 2 potentially three damage if he flaming weapons and then he's got the uh choppy choppy sword uh that whenever he rolls a six to six to hit it's a mortal wound and a six to wound it's neg three rend and six damage like it it can be a lot like this dude is this dude is somebody you can pile on that said i'm inclined to not take him at all okay even wanting to do pestilence wow because he brackets so hard yeah his attack profile goes into the toilet so when was the last time you saw a 400 point 306 foot monster who had a d3 attacks yeah sure sure yeah he he brackets hard you're not like like he gets there and he's like hey um not celeska what's her name um hey shallaxi hold my beer you know like uh you better have a priest backing him up who takes uh the heal universal prayer and then right i mean you have to you have to between that and then heroic actions to just keep him healed because he has bravery 10 so he's relatively easy to self heal yeah i just he brackets hard he just brackets so hard and so for me like if i'm gonna invest 300 plus points into something i'm not gonna do it where it's gonna bracket that hard okay it has to be more reliable than that sam what's feeling on the corruptor it yeah in a vacuum with the the appropriate buffs he's amazing but then you work out the opportunity cost is you've lost your artifact and you've had to make him your general and you've actually paid 200 points for support characters to to keep him buffed up so he ends up coming in at like a 600 point package uh that also eats into the other things you want your army to be doing so i just i don't see i don't see a world where he's better than either the deceiver or the war bringer um at at going and chopping things up as bring more than he does yeah yeah like when i look at it i just i don't see a better package than thank well in the war bringer i mean i will say though he has priced to move at 360 which i appreciate he is the cheapest sure sure like but again those two kings of the of their respective worlds right um one in the choppy chop realm and the other in the spell cast the magic dominance realm like and also horde deletion right like i just i can't bring anything that's not them if i'm going to do like a two like a two monster less okay well speaking of which let's talk about the war ringer shall we clock in at 395 points his uh advantage is of course that he has his spike fist to back it up which is two attacks on twos and twos uh at base neg two rend three damage and he still has that if the unmodified hit roll for an attack made with a spike fist is six it becomes six damage instead of three the thing that makes him so good is obviously you can reroll wound rolls for attacks made by this unit while it's within 13 inches of three or more friendly scaven units um which he which he is one of because it doesn't say other friendly scaven units so you need two other units around to give him rerolls and it's just any scaven not verminous which is cool so he just he just needs within not wholly within he just needs to have two other units towing near him and he has reroll wounds which is amazing on his profile he has tyrant a battle so he could grant himself plus one to hit and wound or some other verminous unit plus one to hit and wound that's his thing and then he has dreaded death frenzy which is like death frenzy but d three units i've put in the average damage table here for him if you gave him devious adversary which is sort of the uh very reasonable thing for you to give him for plus two attacks to both of his profiles uh so uh that's pretty good uh and then basically the devious adversary command rate his self commandability and reroll wounds against a four up save he's 16.64 damage so why are i did not guessing i didn't give him other buffs that could have been there yeah like the charm would be the other like low hanging fruit correct i didn't i wanted to keep it very simple just to show what it is with kind of like him as obvious with the command rate all automatic stuff no artifact dedication no other buffs and there are many other buffs he could have okay so it's only up from here i wanted to kind of like set a floor of just automatic stuff you could trigger god i love this dude yeah he's great uh sam what's your take on this dude this is our um our equivalent of the smash king you know neth he just goes in it is he just takes takes what he's fighting off um he's amazing it's a really good good war scroll and like you said there's so many additional buffs um there's so many additional buffs you could actually put on him yeah and it it creates a dynamic weapons a threat we can support that with radoga storm vermin sense of errors like you can have multiple punchy threats in this army now um you know i love good buffs that's like this this raw damage chart here is is him not stealing from anyone else to do this right that was the key right he wasn't no no other buffs needed to be employed that could have maybe gone somewhere else but obviously you can and when you do boy do things start popping off like this dude drifts well above 20 on against a four upsafe pretty darn easily uh well and with with that like the dreaded dead death frenzy like one of the things that he does so well that the other vermin lord stone is that he synergizes across faction lines because even his dreaded death frenzy isn't specific to keywords to another keyword like it's all scathing yeah yeah i could just be hitting like radoga units and stuff like that which is again super good right or plague monks yeah yeah it also isn't death frenzy it's dreaded death frenzy meaning that it can be coupled with death frenzy and you'll be fighting twice on death which is um fun so you want to unleash how on me that's what you're saying pretty good i'm gonna do good okay so yeah he's he's great love the warbringer love the model yeah he's he's awesome the warps here who finds himself in an unusual position now at three seventies the second cheapest um he does not have the plus one to hit and wound command ability so that is the thing he lacks he is master clan he is still a totem and all of this other stuff he still has the six doom slave attacks okay yeah um and uh so the um um so that's you know super good he counts as two master clan heroes that's his built on war scroll special ability which is fun yeah and as mentioned earlier friendly scaven units wholly within 13 inches have a bravery characteristic of 10 he still has his built in plus one to save from his ball and he can still throw it for d6 mortal wounds and his spell is still amazing so yep okay uh anything to say about the warps here sam what do you think about this dude does he ever make it into your lists he's nice he's um he's supporting the army effectively with that that that 10 bravery characteristic of 10 is is really significant and important and the ability to um launch the the orb after you've run is still really useful so it creates some situations where he's moved 12 then he can auto run six and then the 13 inches so you're you're able to cover quite a lot of territory with that uh and just the save stacking is obviously really valuable um particularly when you've got a five up ward in addition to that so I think yeah he's he's really nice he's he's he struggles to cast his spell with the eight to cast yeah and the the range being halved um is is pretty significant so it hurts range 18 is obviously not as good as what it was because you used to be able to be outside of unbind range but it was 26 inches obviously gone now oh 26 okay yeah it had it had the double 13 things so you still were in unbind range but it was but like 26 inches is a great starting range right because it meant you know people it was hard to backboard away from or something like that yeah sure yeah whereas 18 certainly not the same not the same thing but it is still a good spell you know it depends on what's going on again depending on like this guy is interesting because he does fill two out of the three master clan slots instantly by just existing by being a single hero like he can free up I didn't have to take anything to make that happen and as we mentioned the the bravery 10 thing don't undercount it you have a lot of MSU units and suddenly being bravery 10 is it stops a lot of little people running away you know like a Giselle gets picked off or something that's a real nightmare situation because instantly you could just there goes the rest of the two the other two Giselles are just gone but if this dude happens to be in the vicinity they're fine you still have two Giselles so cool uh all right the Gracier on Screaming Bell we talked about this dude back when the box that came out a little bit here's the relevant part about this dude he's 325 now which is way more expensive than he was in the box said but he is now a double caster double unbinder again he lost that for a month or whatever he's still plus two to cast or he can switch over and become plus one to chant so whatever um he does not get to select a prayer when he trips over into priest so you're you're smiting or uh blessing those are your two choices which by the way isn't terrible like I've I flipped him over to bless sometimes in a couple different attempts uh and peel of doom sucks now and I hate it and if you crack the bell you can summon a vermin lord but I would I just I'm not taking this guy at 325 at 265 I was okay with him with summoning a vermin lord that feels like a better sort of I don't know what the appropriate price form is but it's not 325 the fact that the bell and the furnace still have to be pushed around that there's not magic that actually just makes this stupid thing move well it raises a question of why can cane chariots move magically uh huh and not rat chariot by the way I would be fine if this thing had like a move of three inches and then it went up to like six when the rats were around it sure fine fine then it could like but it could still like pile in or charge or do things as it is now again it just can't do anything can't move can't charge can't pile in can't do anything if you're if your little rats die and by the way in the current world of bounty hunters your little rats die they die hard uh so it's actually very hard to keep 10 people alive near this thing um so I just hate that this thing is a super magical you know nexus point for warp energy stuffed full of warpstone and yet has to sit there like a dumb dumb because it doesn't have 10 idiots sitting around it it just drives me crazy I've tried this play this unit so many times the new bell with the shorter range is really annoying but it's even worse because it's on the d6 before you had a nice curve you kind of knew what you could expect now it's just like most of the time you get crap you don't need or that just doesn't even apply and and cracking it for a vermin lord the difference between these points of the vermin lords points I'll just take the vermin lord that's the issue I'm not getting enough out of this dude so yeah it's just a bad unit now and it's a shame uh and I agree with you garith it'd be cool if it was 10 wounds worth of scaven near it so like you could just have two rat ogres right because they'd be a or a vermin lord like the vermin lord just one hand pushes just he's got he's just like moving it up like that yeah he grabs it by the top he's like don't worry little buddy I got you something anyways Sam any any defense you have for this thing I mean have you put no no no unusable like it's just that the price point is insane um this should have gone down in points not up in points even with the extra um the extra spell so yep I think we've it's it's that because this is an iconic model in the range the you know pushing around maybe the most iconic model in the ring yeah yep yeah and they made it bad like you have the same chance of buffing yourself extremely wins yourself uh yeah and and by the way you like I said I mentioned it off hand but your your spell is also still the same terrible awful useless spell that just basically doesn't affect half the armies in the game awesome great yeah I mean you just have to ask the question of like can you do enough damage to yourself to just get a discount vermin lord like is that what is that what this thing's function is is to buy is to put a discount vermin lord on the table I would be here's the funny thing if peel of doom did nothing except cause d3 mortal wounds to me I would be more inclined to take this unit if that's all it did if I just rang it and it hurt me I would do it I would be more likely to take this well that's what I'm wondering right because like it's too bad because you can't like skitter leap and throw this guy into combat nope you can't um you can't really null hill reliably and get this guy in um like you need to find other ways to do damage to yourself yeah yeah it's bad it's super bad clever cool cute idea with summoning the vermin lord and then you overprice the heck out of it because it summons and that's what happens every time you add summoning into this game you then overprice it so nope pass by the way this is not my one unplayable unit it's not I think this is bad but I think you can still play it for fun okay but this is not my one unplayable unit although it is pretty close I think it's the bottom like in the rank of playable things this is literally my most model in the book which is a shame because it as you said it's like the most iconic one and it's it's in a space as well where there's the most competition it's yeah you know that you've only got six characters you're not gonna you're not gonna lose one so that you can take a bell agree now we come to a power page if there ever was one the grace here and the arch warlock two titans of of rat clan uh uh just like foot hero mastery showing you how to be a foot hero the grace here on foot double caster double unbinder can eat as little uh can eat as little things doesn't insta kill himself anymore just takes d three mortals if he rolls the 13 but still has the ability to pop and be unbound uh has a decent enough spell neg one to hit is and mortal wounds is fine it's fine um it's like you have to roll over their wounds characteristic which is still an extra stupid gate for no reason but it's not it's not as bad as cracks call how about that um at least it can affect flying units um and there are many units in the game surprisingly that have a wound roll or wound characteristic of less than seven whereas there's a shocking number of things in the game that have a move characteristic of higher than seven like do they know their own scrolls i just i sometimes i it blows my mind anyways this guy's fantastic and i love him and he's a master clan hero he's great i mean yep he's good auto tank yeah auto it's just start your list with this guy yeah like many many lists i've built i'm just like and we'll grace here add to cart okay and then now what exactly what you just said right yeah tom yeah i like yep arch warlock my dog look all i ask in life is before i die which is probably not that far in the future can i just get a new sculpt for this it get claws amazing it's one of my favorite figs ever and i think it holds up i think it's still an incredible sculpt if you get it in metal okay but i want you to just imagine in your head what power armor rat warlock of clan scryer looks like if given the modern glow up like this dude's gonna look like a tau battle suit and i can't wait for it like with just giant claws okay he just gonna look like what's her name shadow son is that the the named tau hero i think that's her name i don't know something like that anyways this dude's awesome and i love him six wounds three up base a because he's in power armor now a double caster double unbinder uh he was not always both of those before still has a little more to wounds gauntlet uh his halberd now makes d three attacks and you can juice it to d six and he's fours three's neg two two damage and his piston claws one attack at fours three's neg two three damage and i hear you asking vince are you going to build a list where you give the arch warlock devious adversary so then he's rolling d six plus two attacks and he's three attacks with his piston claw uh am i going to do that yes of course i am of course i am because i want to send this dude up and just wreck face with him you know what that strikes me out even this even brew it's absolutely like let's just go ham baby it strikes me that it would be amazing at a thousand points that dude would be the king of thousand point lists yeah totally just coming in a hot so hot so very hot maybe i'm changing my mind uh by the way tom maybe it maybe it is this well i could i i could just gave it that's all i'm saying i feel like i i feel like doing anything else is just fighting against it and then he has a good spell warp lightning storm better than chain warp lightning by uh a lot a lot yeah so good stuff obviously oh i would all he would also be sparking himself when he's in combat being on threes and twos so suck it everybody here comes the halberd and claw you're afraid of the claw you're afraid of the claw when the claw is making like five attacks let me tell you that right now um anyways this dude rules and i love him so cool anything i mean anybody i mean he's just always he's always casting flaming weapon on himself isn't he as well he's he's got the hammer from smash bros exactly smash lock that's how i mean there we go just just smash lock list incoming i haven't built this one yet i'm building i'm gonna play it this weekend nice nice can you imagine the damage he would do at a thousand points yeah that's what i'm saying man he's a great oh my god he would he would lift units he'd be like lift that 400 unit no 400 point unit please just piss and claw alone it's just so brutal okay cool and you know what the best part about it is he can launch in himself uh yes he can yes he can launch so you can see you could send him send him up field yeah he can no longer affect the warp lightning cannons that is an excellent point but he did get cheaper from his previous incarnation as well he actually went down points from from the old version so um good glow up and he went got cheaper so cool uh yep okay the engineer and the bombardier 105 and 115 respectively um their shooting attacks got different i don't know the pistol has three attacks now who cares you're not taking this guy for you take this guy because you need an engineer to stand near a warp lightning cannon or you want a cheap spark caddy he's just a cheap hero um his spell is by the way decent enough uh generally you'll like you might throw the overcharge at it to go for the d6 because who cares if this guy blows himself up it often doesn't matter the bombardier i am sad to see the 2d6 damage go away because that was just the most exciting role in the world but now it's d3 attacks neg one rent three damage boo um but you can make it uh d6 attacks so it's fine yep cool jennon this is where we start this is where we start to see um a lack a lack of appetite to remove units like there's no need for there to be three small um the three three small clans cry heroes the the engineers had a a good run we could have retired him um that's that that's a sculpt that that i reckon i got in like 2004 um so it's just like yeah he's oh i still have mine from the 90s absolutely yeah yeah like this is a very old model um and it could have just they could have just had the bombardier and put he's armed with a doom rocket uh and firing pull or a pistol and warp energy blade like they could have just done that and then people could still be happy about using their old models right and we could have just been like there we go done and dusted but whatever yes there's like if you're not going to make a new engineer retire this model come now come now uh storm fiends uh they're still storm fiends um they're basically what they were they are 320 for three and you get one battle line per one scryer hero this is our first chance to talk about the new battle line we've danced around a lot but basically what it is is for every hero you include of those particular clans certain units can then be tripped in and may can optionally become battle line so like i said you have a lot of battle line control um but they're basically still storm fiends they they do what storm fiends do so yep i would argue that they're a lot better because you can now couple them with uh clan rats as your generic battle line next to them rather than fives of acolyte so functionally the way the army works a lot better and then you can also pair in the small support heroes or you could pair something like the warbringer as your general warbringer is your general and you know have the the shooty threat and the fighty threat um sort of supporting each other so i think that they're one of the units that benefits quite a bit from from that change and and also um you know the just the proliferation of other buffs to get you a plus one and to hit wound elsewhere means that that they can always be getting the all out attack without it costing you elsewhere yep yeah i agree i mean i've found myself sometimes including just three packs of these guys in the list now as like an interesting battle line fill out and and having it be perfectly functional and useful absolutely um and but yeah i agree that the fact that you can just easily mix in and have them be filling a vital battle line slot while not needing all the little derpy derp surround and all that i i agree it made it makes them a viable part of more lists even though they haven't really functionally changed so we would um we would be remiss here not to shout out the the goat the scaven the greatest scaven player on earth anthony Trent and ellie who's just retort him it's in a row yes yes indeed uh don faint he died he put me down round five at uh at aco so uh yeah he's uh he's a heck of a player um we uh we had a drop down you know fight to the death where three models were left on the table out of both of our armies uh and yes that is true the the as as uh romulan dog is pointing out there are some positive changes to the um hit and wound rules of some of the shooting stuff here like wind launchers being on fours and threes they're being able to go to threes and twos and so on yep absolutely um but i mean they're still performing the same basic functional role was what i mean like if you liked storm fiends before so doing the same thing yep okay the lightning cannon is 150 and it still does the same thing it used to do which is have a 24-inch range and you stick an engineer near it and you hope to god you roll a one or two when you power check it that's this is like the ultimate slot machine unit in scaven because it's just like pull and see what we get do i get four mortal wounds or 12 and something explodes um and if you're lucky you get two shots out of it when you're overcharging it that's basically what happens with this thing you get two shots and then it blows itself up so cool if you like if if kenny rogers is your man then this is the thing for you okay uh so there you go um skryer acolytes i'm not sure i see much of a use for these dudes anymore 75 for five they are also still battle line with a skryer hero um there's just oftentimes better ways you're into being able to grab cheap useful battle line um you know you're getting five of these dudes they're still fragile as i'll get out they can still run and shoot you know you're on threes and twos if you target a unit with ten or more models like okay they're fine i just like they're not what i'm going to for my damage so yeah i i just don't know i've i have not put them in any lists yet is my answer which um good because these models are old and terrible and everybody just uses proxies so we all just cut up our wind mortars our poison wind mortars when it when it flipped over every wind mortar became uh two became two acolytes okay anything i missed there gentlemen um oh these are the the most expensive model uh in the australian web store so these are these are 20 bucks each which is great 20 bucks each single model per blister amazing they are also the second hundred dollar unit yes they are also the second oldest model still on sale in age of sigma great by the way the first the oldest model is also in this book we just haven't got to it yet these were released in i went and dug it up because i had to figure it out they were advertised at the end of 93 and they were released in january or february of 1994 love it so almost 30 years old yep uh so so if you if this the these models are older than you hit that like button there you go yeah absolutely yeah we have a call for the like button hit yeah there's a lot of you watching who haven't hit like yet click the button come on now what are you doing for all this scaven goodness click that like button uh all right the doom wheel uh it's still the fun wacky doom wheel we've come to know and love still makes d6 range attacks on three three's neg one d3 damage which i submit is actually a good shooting profile uh it now can roll over models with a wounds characteristic of three or less and every time it does so on a two-up it's d3 mortal wounds and it's just whenever it moves so you can like it would you pile in and you can charge over people and move over people and that's basically the reason you're taking this thing you're still never using more and more speed and always using more and more more bolts because two d6 shots of threes threes neg one d3 it's actually a pretty darn good shooting profile my only question is why is our chariot a behemoth like i'm fine with it at 185 points why is it a behemoth every other the storm cast chariot with 13 wounds and a three up save not a bigger base and a bigger yeah just a chariot just a chariot but ours is a behemoth why like in what world why is this a behemoth i do not understand the justification for that and it makes me very angry because you're actually in a lot of contention for behemoth slots in this army sometimes so depending on your builds it's kind of annoying doesn't usually stop you from taking it but it's just it's a pain in the butt for no reason um yeah sam what do you think about doom wheels i think they're really cool if you lean into them so you need to take all of the appropriate buffs including the double move you need to cast levitate on them so they can fly over stuff um yeah i think that these can be incredibly fun and one of my mates who's a um a scaven player through and through so shout out to kyle he um he always just chucks one in for the fun element of it and it's just so wacky and wild and you never have a bad game against it it's always even if it's even if it's blow your stuff up it's always a great a great unit to include um it's not optimal but it's like i said earlier there's a use case for this there's certainly a situation where you could run this um in a viable list and and um and still do well yep i will often say this is my pet unit right we all know that in most lists you've got 200 points to spend on your pet unit and this is my pet unit exactly what you said right so yep okay the warp fire thrower is still the warp fire thrower it does what the warp fire thrower does except that it's overcharged it's more more warp fire has changed now so basically which is a really interesting change i actually quite like so you can choose to overclock it and if you do so now what it does is it takes its eight inch range and turns it to a 12 inch range uh and it adds uh and you add one to the roll that determines if the enemy suffers one mortal wound which is obviously on a four right so now it becomes on a three up with a 12 inch range which is very interesting for all of the reasons around teleporting and this thing popping out of units and shooting and now being able to actually reach over the nine inch line and tag the unit right um but keep in mind it is only the target unit model yeah um model thank you yes so like you're not just bathing the whole unit right so is what it is um so that's not as good but that's a neat change the important part about these is the new rules for hidden weapon teams which we might as well just cover now basically you can include one of these for every 10 clan rats or storm vermin in one of those units okay i love that this that let me just say the bots have been out in force here in our particular stream today okay and i have like the safe filter on really strongly and yet for some reason they just don't trip it that's fun well other people's messages get held well they thought they thought they knew what kind of stream this was with your rats i guess yeah exactly so the point being in a unit of 60 clan rats you can hide six weapon teams that is a relevant thing we will discuss later i wouldn't hide six warp fire throwers but it is a thing you can do um yeah like for the most part they're they're fine 70 points they're fine they're not my pick that's what i'll say for weapon teams yeah for weapon teams yeah yeah i think all of the weapon teams are comparable to endless spells in in terms of their impact and cost so it comes to the end of listening having to think about do i want the the swords or do i want the the purple sun or do i want the warp fire throw and like it loses out in those comparisons yep okay uh all right so um jazales 120 for three and single this got this got tagged with the single thing so you cannot reinforce these anymore at least as of right now was that intentional i don't know but it's what it says in the book so for right now you can take them in three packs um they're now a five up they save the bright side is they went to threes and threes neg two two damage they still do two mortal wounds on the six to hit still one shot each um they're still so they're still like poor man's long strikes basically yep and uh the cool thing is you get plus one to hit if you didn't move now so you're on twos and threes not a bad shooting profile for for three little shots um i will say at 120 points i've oftentimes this has been another thing we're like i've got roughly this amount left in the list this is a pretty common go to for me to throw three in because they had that 30 inch range and i've generally been pretty happy with them they they could do some work so um i the first game i played uh i had three of these in there two of them got killed the last one refused to go down became a sniper i rolled for him three rounds in a row the dude rolled a six to hit hmm he was just on it he couldn't be he was just like little little little little seal team six rat over there yeah what's your take on jazels right now sam in this book have you have you found you put any of them in lists or anything like that no no you need a you need a six pack to get optimal use out of the buffs so when you've only got three there's less incentive for you to then give them a warpstone spark or to give them whatever it is you need to give them to to lift them up um yeah i don't i don't see myself running them with uh yeah three four hundred and twenty points forty forty points per guy it's just yeah it's it's not going to happen there's other ways of getting um that high value damage out elsewhere that you just would choose over the jazels but there i mean they're fine the the range of 30 is what makes them interesting um and having multiple units go through no holes now is also something that makes them interesting uh because you could potentially try and sniper off uh support characters or you can try and chip away big units at degrade big monsters at degrade or whatever so yeah i'd say jazels aren't in my list at the moment they're usable but they're they're not what they were yeah um rattling guns 12 inch range and now 2d6 plus three uh attacks um if you overcharge them they go to 46 plus three so quite a lot of shots on fours and fours but still a great target for a warpstone spark obviously to just like roll hot get a ton of shots and make them all neg one damage two attacks so fantastic again can be hid one in ten i want to address something people are talking about which is each of the weapon teams hiding says one of these for each 10 okay so like reading it raw you can sit like 60 clan rats could hold six warp fire thrower six rattling guns six doom flares right um i i believe that might be technically true i expect them to f a q to say no you know it's one weapon team total per 10 i'm just assuming that's the answer i should have said that but either way that is you know obviously insane because like clan rats die by the bucket loads you could easily get that unit completely lifted so i guess if you're gonna do that you that's an excuse to take overseer of destruction um but like i don't it's that's obviously hilarious and silly but i expect it to be f a q'd um they're still good yeah rattling guns are good good range good machine gun good new profile so yep cool uh 65 points doom flare hey buddy how you doing what's up with my what's up baby welcome back doom flare welcome back i've missed you you're back and you're you're you're i'm in for you again here we go all right the doom flare he moves 26 but that never matters because you're not gonna actually have him move around his own for most most of time he's gonna be in a unit he hides as well in units of clan rats and storm bourbon all the same you get one two attacks characteristic of this unit made a charge move fine um you can do more more whirling death which you can crank it to 2d6 but then if you roll doubles or a seven it kills itself fine i don't care i'm in for it every time 2d6 plus one let's do this uh at the end of your charge phase you can reveal this hidden unit if the unit which is was hiding uh made a charge move in that phase um if you do so set of this unit holy within three of the unit in which it was hiding it can be set up within three inches of enemy units and can fight in a following combat phase i don't know if it actually counts as making a charge that's another interesting question um if the unit it was hidden and charged i'm assuming yes but it might be no either way i don't care because this bad boy is gonna rock in for 2d6 attacks on threes threes neg 2 rend 2 damage the value just popping three of these home boys out and having them go to work son like it is a lot of damage like it's a lot uh yeah i love these stupid idiots uh they make i like taking two of them in a pack of 20 clan rats and just like if you if you got if you've got like two three packs clan rats as your chaff which is a there's plenty of viabilists that are gonna play that kind of thing because it's just cheap bodies it's really funny to let people guess which unit of clan rats has this thing as they're all moving forward and then one charges it's like no it's that one i found them yeah how it comes to nonsense uh so yeah super fun i love that these things are good now i gotta i gotta find some bits and start converting more doom players i don't have enough of these guys yeah i jumped on the um the google image search and there's a heap of custom built like scaven is an army that lends itself to this naturally there's a heap of custom built doom players just made out of plastic card and bits box stuff right and i'm gonna try and try and emulate that build a couple because i this is one of my favorite favorite units in terms of change from last book to this book um just the the way that it functions is really cool and the it makes every unit a threat right you can't risk you can't risk going into to units if this if this can um if this can wipe your whatever and you can create little pockets where you've got gaps in the unit so you're further back than their weapon range but you've got your pile in still so you say they've got a one inch range they can't fight you over the clan rats they go because it's their turn or whatever you pop oh no because you've had to make a judge so you pop out you save yourself by wrapping a little clan ran clan rat um semi circle there and then you can fight them obviously you're gonna die anyway but it just enables you to get your 2d6 worth of attacks because it would suck if you popped out and then they killed you that wouldn't be good right right right yeah exactly no it's so easy to put this guy in a position where he can just be safe like where he can still easily pile in but isn't getting like they're foolish to split their attacks and go after him right so yeah like they may either have one guy or zero people who can attack him and then you're coming in hot after they go and just me just taking the chainsaw to him he's great love the doom flare love it uh i've also had pet units where i'd wear it like instead of the two wheel i'd take three of these guys and i'm like yep happy with that investment i have about the same amount of points and i'm good uh the warp grinder uh really interesting because it can take any non monster or war machine now the difference is it doesn't like it's not random it doesn't screw up it doesn't hurt them it's just now you have a tunnel and you can pop up nine inches away one unit 65 or nine inches off and i would point out that the range with which you can set up the unit around this guy is wild because he has to set up more than nine inches away but the unit you set up next to him is also like nine inches away from enemies but with holy within 13 of him so you've got like quite a lot of space where you could pop him on an objective and then put the unit into charge space he kind of got an extra body over there on an objective or something like there's just there's options with this thing when he pops in so i have used the warp grinder quite a lot he's showing up in a lot of lists i dig him for just putting a we're going to talk about the unit i like to bury in just a moment uh sam warp grinder make it amazing yeah of course any any null deploy um and particularly in this environment where there might be scenarios or situations where you want to hide your infantry battle line with four wounds or less you can actually just he can provide a level of protection that way as well just keep them off the board yeah keep them fragile galatian veterans out of just in non-existence land that's bounty hunter proof right there okay plague priest over to the pestle and stuff truly the oldest model in the range released in 1993 yes 29 years old is this lord stroke was he a named character back in the day he was lord there you go yeah that's right uh i mean whatever whatever with this guy's attacks he has a perfectly fine spell that can also by the way act as a heal for the corruptor which is that's a nice secondary use but you shouldn't forget about um he's fine he's a priest for 100 points done explanation over like he is a pestilence priest for 100 points that is why you took him let's not pretend any other things are going on here the plague claw okay uh six to 30 inch range still has that min range thing hilarious uh one attack threes and two is neg two d six damage you do add two to battle shock rules for units just targeted by this you don't have to hit or wound or anything i'm just saying it's a thing okay you know what i love about this more than anything else they put the picture of the loader guy that everybody uses as an acolyte for for for the picture of the catapult not the actual like catapult yeah uh when i saw this i was like this guy's an acolyte right even though this can go to twos and twos and two d six damage against units of 10 or more it's still not making the cut it's still not making if it had two attacks it could sure but then it would be threes and threes that's what would happen you're only allowed to go to twos and twos tom when you make the single attack as every as every like hero who's got a random spear they throw will tell you i know i know but imagine imagine if it was two attacks like how would how much would that change the math a lot on 130 point unit it'd be like two attacks like if you can throw 46 damage yeah yeah i'd take it i would take it all right i've got the use case for this one you take a um you take a vermin lord um who teleports six inches away he shoots the horigast at a unit he then charges in and fights minus one bravery and then you target them with this unit so it's helping yeah it's helping your bravery bomb and then um and then the enemy will run away i have seen that's how to use this yeah no absolutely i'm still keeping this as playable in my playable list because i have seen people talking about lists using horigast and using this to combat with it to basically just pop units out of existence between targeting them with this and then having the horigast near them so i like there probably is a wombo combo build that's pretty scary as you just bust people off uh you know most units just flee immediately uh from that like if they can if they if you can get a model off or something right so it's it's there it's there okay the plague priest on furnace uh again both of her i didn't mention the last time of both the big things because the other one's so bad this is the one you'll probably actually see sometimes this goes up to 15 wounds its attack profile is absolutely nothing to write home about other than that giant plague sensor which which it now does drop and crush you for pretty easily on a two up um and it can do it in both turns which is just nice uh so it can just pop two two up d3 plus four mortals just good still has a five upward and importantly it still has its aura of battle shot community so 13 inch range battle shot community has the same prayer and it's minus one to be wounded in melee which does make it a little tougher as well like minus one to wound is a great penalty it's harder to back out of again these things are challenging because they still don't move on their own and that's so you this thing will eventually just be stuck somewhere but hold on so but when you doubles your ally units are friendly models they're not enemy models when you oh when you play doubles yes they're but you have to be friendly scavin models right so if you doubles if you do doubles with scavin these things would still move if allied models are nearby okay and you'd still grant battle shock immunity to allied models yeah i mean sure fine i guess because they're not enemy so you either friendly or enemy models look just make sure you push it into the middle of the board or near an objective before it loses its ability to move that way you can still actively pray and hit people with your prayers that's all you're sure and it is tough like i said like it is legitimately a different more difficult piece to remove because that neg one to wound and a five-up ward like it's good so yeah it's fine sam any thoughts on the big the big plague furnace you just you're spending 100 points on plague priests i think i'd rather three plague priests and one plague furnace that's fair i can see now that it doesn't automatically damage the things around it i've taken it in some like very heavy melee lists just and it doesn't give the six-up ward anymore either well you can you can take um you could like again i i will i've put this in a couple infantry heavy lists and i i did play a game with this furnace like i mentioned and i used him to just bless my big infantry blocks right like that was just he would just pray and bless because he was outside when he was outside a range of doing other valuable prayers it can still trigger a great plague yeah it's still a chant yeah so um six-up ward on a unit of 60 guys is it's something it'll it'll do some work it's useful yeah uh plague monks 90 points for 10 one battle line per one pestilence hero hello warp grinder friend and why is this the warp grinder friend because they have the actual built-in plus one to run and charge in their musician they're the only unit in the book that has it built in uh so you lose your little book of woes attack when you come up from the grinder but i don't care uh because then they can be on an eight which you could theoretically reroll through a triumph or through the command ability or whatever the battalion yeah and so they pop up they're great on the charge um and they they're they're dropping on an eight so they've been my warp grinder best friend they come in i always use the fetid blades because there's actually no reason to use the fetid blade in most staff like not that it actually matters i wouldn't care my unit is mixed because i have original 90s metal um plague monks but i would just say they're armed with fetid blades because you want the threes and fours because you're gonna have 30 of these dudes they're gonna have three enter reaches anyways so they'll fight in four ranks deep and yeah they come in making you know three attacks each unbuffed and sixes to hit are uh neg two rend which is annoying because you have to separate your pile um but it is what it is so they're fine they come in with a lot of attacks and do some work for they do to work for bargain basement prices and they work great on if you pair them with a cursor yes yes then you can replace the neg two rend with just straight with mortals yeah yep am i missing anything on plague monks there they still die in bucket loads they're like six up yeah they just that that's right there they are the glass ultimate glass cannon aren't they just the six plus save poor bravery well they're not the ultimate wouldn't you think leg center no that's right they um they are a glass cannon and this is one of those examples where controlling what your battle line is uh becomes really valuable so you can you can just opt to have those units not be battle line um and then therefore not say any battle tactics or any points to the the relevant scenarios 100% like if you can keep these guys out of being Galatian veterans by shutting off their battle line status boy is it useful right because otherwise they are just easy easy money for your opponents okay censor bears oh it is hammer time uh well in fact we're gonna we're gonna get censor bears are 90 they were 70 in the little booklet that came with the ghp ignore that they're 90 for five two wounds each now though great awesome cool uh we'll talk about another unit later that should have gotten that treatment and didn't uh three attacks base threes and threes neg one two damage you may recognize that attack profile threes threes three attacks threes threes neg one two that would be the profile of shield annihilators okay except these dudes also get plus one to attack if they charge so then they go to four attacks each so that unit of uh of five dudes is putting out 20 attacks on threes threes neg one two damage um they can also get plus one to wound if they're uh near some plague monks so they can become threes and twos they can also they're also neg one to be wounded which is fine whatever who cares they're gonna die pretty easy but you can also get a million buffs on these idiots to get them on just straight twos and twos get them up to five attacks that is bargain basement easy buffing let's just take a look at that what that looks like uh age of the censor bear is upon us i couldn't be more excited to have these guys back in the mix stats of the censor bear is with plus one to hit and wound there are multiple sources for such a bonus and plus one attack multiple sources for such a bonus and then and then their charge bonus yeah 23 damage against a four up save who uh that is that is a great 90 point investment baby that's what i'm talking about coming in hot i wonder if um i'll bet there's some pretty good printable models out there for these guys yep there are that was that that might be in my print list i still have i still have old metal censor bears but i don't have enough uh yeah so these guys are good sam what do you think about these as your little missile units yeah i love i love them in fives um just to to around and explode things but you can run a 15 you could go double reinforced and then you can get them at plus three attacks they get to six attacks twos twos you can get the rent to four so twos twos rent four and then damage three against our um our veterans this this jhb so that's the that's the sweet spot if someone can pull that off i'll be very impressed yeah that is uh that's a fun time that's a fun time for sure um and the nice part is if you do take them up to 10 don't forget their reach would go to two inches so at the 10 or 15 they do it oh yeah yeah on that 25 mil base so like you can fight 3d which means they're all fighting basically all the time so it's good uh the claw lord he's 110 points and he's a claw lord he does what claw lords do he's five wounds the four up save he gets more attacks and he has his plus one attack command ability for verminous units cool if you're trying to do a storm vermin thing he is part of your kit that is for sure that's where he shows up i will point out that the claw lords base profile with his warp forged blade is six attacks on threes and threes neg one two damage tom what is the base profile for the lord level stormcast so not the special characters but just the the generic lord uh isn't it isn't it four attacks on threes and threes or five five attacks on threes and threes five attacks on threes and threes neg one two visa v during by the transitive property claw lords are better fighters than stormcast heroes suck it take that you do only have a four up save instead of the five up that are the three of the storm casters obviously yes yeah he's fine he shows up where you want uh oh yeah you're right assistant ref sensor bears are 32 mil i'm sorry they are 32 mil yeah um that is a good point they are absolutely on the bigger base um yeah claw lords cool he's fine you use him with like storm vermin when you want to make him choppy great next uh scritch yeah we're gonna call this guy skip scritch skip claw there is no purpose to this dude hard skip great glad we all agree okay clan rats they are now the work the the clan rats are the best worst unit in the game okay let me see if i can back up what i'm saying there they are now the cheapest wound to point ratio i'm not counting pink nonsense okay like we're gonna leave pink nonsense the summer moment okay yeah of like actually what you're purchasing yeah because they are again 20 dudes for 100 points they're obviously battle line all the time cheaper than zombies obviously worse than zombies that is to say like they don't have zombies six inch play they don't have damage our mortal wounds are no output yeah these are just bodies now there are bodies that can like retreat and charge and get plus two to run okay which is cool but they are just meat they they could they could go to two attacks a model pretty easily these have been returned to basically what how we used to use scaven slaves in old school right where you would just have like two or three blocks of 50 that did nothing except live and be in the way they basically downgraded to pure on old school scaven slaves it's just you return a d3 at the end of each battle shock phase which is a meaningless excuse me again sorry yeah meaningful not meaningless yes thank you yeah meaningful thing like it's actually super good because it's every battle shock phase the number of times that has actually made a huge difference in just my testing so far it said because i've been playing with these guys since the box came out testing them because they've had this unit since the box set the number of games but that is actually super mattered is a lot i had one clan rats survive okay like a thing pat like he was he was within range to be battle shock immune because i had a sensor near my one guy left after a bunch of stuff fought a unit of 60 i returned back d3 which gave me enough because of that return to hold the objective okay and then he rallied him and then i retreated him and then rallied him and i was back up to like uh and i got myself back over 20 over two rallies so like between that and the returns like you can you can get there anyways it's there they're just cheap bodies that's how you use them never expect anything more than cheap bodies that's what they're for and if something bounty owners hits them they are gone they did yeah they did um there's a few things so the five up save is really nice five up on the war scroll and then there's some coherency stuff you can do with the battle shock phase so coherency is at the end of the turn uh battle shock is that the phase before then so you can you can get back into coherency um bringing back slay models which is sometimes really nice yep absolutely agreed storm vermin uh yeah they're good they're still choppy again they can they're two attacks three three snag one one pretty standard elite profile moved to the four up save which is great base still again have it's such a big difference in their their efficacy um still have the retreat in charge on the scroll which is very useful and they bodyguard everybody on a four up and they bodyguard verminous people on a two up which means they can two up uh absorb wounds off of a war bringer which is pretty cool like it definitely means that makes that guy more survivable um I think the two ways you'll see to use these dudes are like if you're really feeling saucy you can take the 30 attack pack and burn two or your four reinforcement points you got it you've got to have other like you got to have a plan there you can't just like put 30 on the table and be like okay this is my thing because that there that's not going to work again they will explode still if hit by a proper bounty hunters unit um but they but they can they can do the work they do damage they will lift stuff you know you can get them two three four attacks like that's just entry cost and you can put them on twos and twos like that right yeah um the other use I see from is a couple 10 packs to just be around and start bodyguarding heroes right so yeah 10 packs are nice the footprint is small enough that you can get them into train um they've got this sort of whereas the censor bearers need to be going into combat to be adding value to your army storm vermin have like this latent capacity that were there either supporting a hero um or they're tougher to move there's there's a heap of reasons that you would take storm vermin even though the raw damage output is higher on other comparable units so um I really like them I read a list with 30 and I thought I was being clever and then vince sent through a list that was almost identical okay so maybe not maybe maybe that's the build we were both but this this trip both of our johnny sense is so hard like I have an excel file from before worst role builder got updated that's just like 20 lists right just trying stuff yeah little power pairs it's like if I take this that leaves me with 1400 like yeah from there yep uh okay um pack masters you will never take unless you can't afford a unless you either can't afford or out of hero slots for a second master molder that's it because you can the important part now is how crack the whip works which both of these units have and crack the whip is at the start of your movement phase again pretty interesting timing there uh you can pick uh one friendly clan's molder pack units holy within 13 which both rattlers and giant rats are pack units um and until your next movement phase you can add three to run rolls three to charge rolls and plus one to wound for a tevax made with melee weapons man that's a buff that is a buff right there uh you want to talk about a guy that's going to often try really just be like running six behind a unit right just like yeah gotta keep up uh yeah I mean it's an incredible buff uh and then also he can unleash more and more beasts he has a command ability where on a three up he can win a pack unit is destroyed on a three up he can get a identical replacement unit set up holy within 12 of him and nine from enemies so pretty cool um so it's a three up chance to bring back your your like four pack of rat ogres which is by my estimation amazing value and he can heal d three units to a to a rat ogre unit or or something as well which is what you're gonna do since they have six wounds and since there's a battle tactic about healing rat ogres on ovins we don't talk about book battle tactics but there is one there that's achievable yes yes indeed um you can absolutely just have like a couple these guys and just be like yep got them done complete healed yeah these dudes are great the the master molders great pack masters like I said you're fall back if you're out of hero slots or you just don't have 90 points to fit them in so cool help hit a bomb we talked about it earlier you know it's it's actually pretty scary as monsters go it is a fighting beast it can benefit from some of the buffs we've talked about some of them like it can't get the plus three to charge thing you can't whip it but you can give it the other stuff it's still random movement which kills it for me like I just this thing can do a lot of damage if it gets there but it's still like if you take it you're basically gonna always take the 16 wounds and a four up save uh modification and it's still not going to get there it's just gonna die so it's fun I would not say you would never take it but it's still not there and it's because the random move just give it a move speed and you could actually see use for this thing yeah so um cool you know there might be I just I'm thinking about something I got I haven't I this is literally just popped into my head but if you had the three master clan heroes and you whipped your rat ogres and had them charge okay uh then I could because you can shove this dude through uh a novel right like it there's no doesn't have a monster prohibition so I could see the rat ogres like moving in and you get the the nine and then him having a use because you just kind of stick him here when you're back and all this pop him up at nine and then he can auto charge in so I guess there's how I would use him there you go yep as part of like the molder master clan you know one or twin powers activate but look you had to I'm just saying you can do it you can do it yeah like anything in this book you can you can pick your buffs and you can pick your rules interactions to to make anything viable and anything work there um there was a time in 2014 when cacophonic choir was the best spell in the game and the help in abomination was the best monster in the game so both those units there they're coming up on their 10 year anniversary the punishment the punishment for that hopefully it's sunset so we get new cat choir and a new help it rule oh boy yeah I remember those times those were good times win win yes cacophonic choir just run around killing everything help it's we're destroying whole units oh boy good times okay how long do you have to be in prison rat ogres boy did these change uh first of all lol that model picture the fact that that got printed in a book people should feel bad about that now six wounds so even though they can be battle line with a molder hero they will never be galley vets which makes them a really good bounty hunters these guys are great bounty hunters uh they are both fighting beast and pack so they can benefit from everything um they're 140 for two and their attacks got better because now they're four attacks on threes and threes neg one two damage and six ups or double taps which is awesome because you can very easily put these guys on twos and twos so sixes to double tap on twos and twos is obviously amazing uh and yeah these dudes do work I have been running a four pack of these in most of the lists I had it in two out of the three games I played uh with them and boy oh boy did these guys never let me down they have been amazing so far I love them like they're just beasts they're just beasts Sam this is this is this also your vote for another one of your potential hammers like very oh my yeah these are phenomenal getting getting the counters two models on objectives getting the four plus save like the the the buffs here are great uh and and being battle line being able to being able to take units of four where they're not subjected to the poor coherency and only eating one of your reinforcements like I think uh I think a six would do a lot of work but the range one is a real killer so I think you're probably sticking with the the fours um yeah I love I love this unit I've been including them in all of my lists and I've been building some of these these plastic scopes and not only they look terrible but they're covered in mold lines in a really like it must have been very early on in the technology because the way that the molds are pressed together you have they're like the earliest plastic scopes yeah yeah yeah like really really frustratingly difficult mold lines to get to and to remove so yeah uh no fun uh blue show uh he says didn't GW literally make a newer set of scabin models for late warhammer fantasy battle it wasn't actually eighth edition it came out in island of blood um and they took them out of the store and never sold them again yes yes blue show that happened I have a bunch of those they're not yeah so do I yeah and why didn't they use that for the model like that for the picture I I because you can't buy that model they have to put the picture in the web still yeah it's not the web store the all of my rat ogres are either the 90s metal rat ogres which were also better than these plastics because they're like huge like really muscular and oversized or the plastic island of blood those are those are I got a dozen I think I have a dozen rat ogres in there all that so there you go rat swarms they are 55 points for two you will never take this unit this is the unit we got here this is this unit is trash it's this is my unit as well vince I had this one and do you know who I'm replacing them with nerglings in the corruptor build nerglings are actually good yeah yeah yeah 100 the corruptor is your general yeah but play grats I think is what I'm gonna what I'm gonna try out yes 100 better pickup so yes Tom they are four wound swarms that do nothing special make no attacks they are eight wounds with no save yes I understand you can return a slain model to the unit there will be no unit these things are straight trash for 45 points Tom I can get 20 clan rats 20 wounds I understand I understand like there is no you know fitting in fitting them in the last bit instead of an endless spell you take the end the spell it's better every time but but I'm actually thinking about on like Steve's tables which are only like do holy wounds at the end of the turn like it would be enough it would be enough to like kill a base but then you're going to put the base back automatically terrible and you're never on the unit the worst the worst I'm I'm terribly sorry guy time time has gotten away from me so I do actually need to wrap up no problem but I would I would love to give you my my quick overview of Eschen given it is my favorite yeah do you might like let's just can we jump like let's just jump giant rats they're funny because they get neg to rend you'll probably get ready and they're 60 it's funny because you get neg to all right death master uh go like you take us through Eschen yeah absolutely the death the death master does mortal wounds now on sixes to hit rather than exploding fixes which is significantly better he does need an extra attack though that we're about to see he's got a weeping blade and there's another death master that has weeping blades so he just has has one more and is basically better in every way these guys can still run and shoot the shooting is really significant yeah it is yeah it is look the the mortal wound damage that you're able to do and the fact that it's a 12 inch range because you obviously have quite a lot of instances where you're popping up nine inches or six inches away from the opposing units it means that if the character is close enough to the screen you can you can often just pick the character off the mortal wounds are amazing into stuff like Kragnos for example so some units that they just rely on having a zero plus save that even with rend is going back to a two plus so that that that are found to be really useful and then the the other thing is previously you only had poison in shooting for whatever reason they they put the star yeah they put the warp star in the poison but not they're not their little blade but now you had a lot does so yes slink slink skin and shank um who i don't think we i don't think we can buy him in Australia um i picked mine up off ebay from from europe somewhere but yeah he's just amazing um and the my favorite thing about him is not the war scroll which is phenomenal he's got fight first if he's near his friends he can deep strike six away but my favorite thing is if you put him next to normal gutter runners the disparity in the model quality yeah these guys are just like these are brand new and these are these are what games workshop should be using to represent the scaven range um but yeah the claw pack puts out a heap of attack so it's got like 10 attacks um sixes to hit a d3 mortal wounds from the unit and the unit can fight at the start of the phase so what we can do is we can go um slink can fight and then he can retreat because he's got that that special rule on his war scroll then we can go the skittish shank claw pack then we can go um but with a unit like it's just amazing that the way that those things pair so um yeah really really impressed with them and then the the humble gutter runners and night runners both got glow ups as well so the gutter runners got elite um and they're they're popping out three shots each and then they've added plus one to their wound value as well uh and then those the the night runners can still pre-game move which we spoke about earlier the desire um or the the lack of desire to be low drop this even plays into that further because if your opponent can alpha creating separation between the night runners and the rest of your army gives you an additional turn and in some instances it might be a determining factor in them giving you the turn and then because you've already pushed up you can push up again and you can start to play the pitting game so scaven trades really well but it can also pin and then disable their ability to get onto um the objectives or to score secondary so I just I think night runners at 10 for 90 are absolutely phenomenal and it's not a meme anymore so previously when I was doing it I was like what what are the edge what are the edge cases for for using these guys effectively but now it's actually like all these guys do mortal wounds in multiple phases big units can have long reach and be doing mortal wounds over the top of screens there's the potential for them to be piling in twice which creates openings on those 25 mil bases like there's a lot to like about what they've what they've done with Eschen um and yeah I mean it's quite it like it's quite amusing that they didn't update the range I know it's the biggest crime because yes slink is incredible I can't sell it enough the fact that slink and the death master are d3 mortals on the sixes to hit like I had slink and and his pack turn around and just spike dirt through off the table yep because I just rolled hot and it was just like just tinder it was just splinters all the fact that the regular gutter runners and the night runners are all still one mortal wound on a six to hit and melee and shooting so good one other quick thing the gutter runners can go into ambush and now they don't have to come from the edge of the board but they can pop out uh wholly within six of a terrain feature which is just great for sort of mid table versatility and where they show up so agree with everything you said Eschen came out amazing and it is a crime that we have to deal with the sculpts that we have for these things it's it's fortunate we didn't start with Eschen because we might not have got any of the other units done I do need to go I've got I've got some pick up to do thank you so much for having me it's been a pleasure Sam it's been an absolute pleasure we're gonna we'll we'll sally forth but appreciate it a os list labs go check it out it'll be linked in the description go give Sam a sub he's doing good stuff and that'll also force him to do more content I can watch that's right feel the pressure thank you Sam appreciate it brother thanks guys yeah yeah as Sam skitter leaves away we will continue on here we go we were basically through all the units anyways um so the endless spells uh yeah vermin tide's okay it's fine it's okay it's like uh it's like the spider endless spell for um gets um the problem with it is that they can move away from it like the finishing a normal move runner retreat uh it's really easy to not yeah and so then it's only when you move it and the movement on it is only I mean it's seven which is decent but if you know it's gonna like you it's okay it's okay that's exactly right warp lightning vortex is still warp lightning vortex it still does what it does it's it doesn't cause the loss of fly anymore correct yes what it does now is it's still double taps mortal wounds potentially and it you can't run but it got rid of the you you can fly so yeah okay fine the bell of doom is your most unreliable battle shock immunity in the universe uh because not only could it explode but it's actually a very low cast value so it can quite easily be dispelled and then the big time the big glow up the gnaw hole because now once per turn blah blah blah you can move to it and then teleport through it designers note you can use this ability once per turn with each gnaw hole faction terrain feature in your army that's on the battlefield yeah what so everybody can jump in a hole go to other holes we're moving our whole army around zippy soupy the difference is it also has the silvaneth limitation of now if there is an enemy unit within three inches of it that gnaw hole shuts off yeah so it is very easy for them to block you off they just need to stand something three inches but if you were doing teams and had six gnaw holes on the table good lord sure then i don't know if you could actually fit them probably on steve's tables it's they're still old and big because they do have to be 18 inches away from each other uh and there's the points we've talked about all of them lists let's do some lists so we will end here on some lists like sam made it almost to the end so there you go uh these are some fun lists that i've been playing around with or have played uh so first up we have what i call scaven impossible cue the mission impossible theme uh okay so the deceiver who has incredible agility in the gnaw bomb a regular death master oh by the way they updated the death master so he can hide in night runners too i didn't say that in the previous version of the box you can only hide in clan rats or storm proven now he can hide in night runners as well slink because he's amazing a plague priest on foot who happens to have this spell called curse it's pretty cool weird five gutter runners five gutter runners ten night runners 30 plague monks and a warp grinder they're they're they're their friends three storm fiends i actually have the grinder fists so they're going in reserve as well uh and then the claw pack and then three jasailas bounty hunters for the gutter runners uh and the uh yeah for the plague monks uh and the plague monks yes and the basic plan here is the death master is kind of off board because he's in the night runners the gutter runners are off board the gutter runners are off board the plague monks are off board the grinders off board the storm fiends are off board the deceiver is set up in the backboard the uh the only thing that's going to be anywhere near range is you have some night runners who are out kind of screening maybe an area to keep your territory you've got jasailas sitting at 30 inches and you've got a plague priest who's going to hide behind terrain sure basic plan the vermin lords outside of on bind range standing near a gnaw hole dreaded skitter leaps the plague priest to six inches away plague priest then curses the unit you then pop up with your plague monks out of the grinder at nine inches as well as slink who's six inches away uh as as well as like the storm fiends you know and if we're gonna be nine inches away and the gutter runners who pop out of terrain everybody shoots lots of mortal wounds add a lot of shooting and then you charge and the plague monks now charging the cursed unit are charging on eight potentially re-rollable the monks right there to make them re-roll and or sorry the priest is right there to make them re-roll and then you're just hoping for a long bomb on like the the storm fiends or whatever and that's what happens you just collapse on them like they make you if they make you go first it's a foolish mistake because you are going to be all up in them guts just coming out of nowhere you just surround go to town and so many those those two units of gutter runners are putting out 30 shots with every six being immortal wound right so like it's it's doing work that's not to mention all the normal yeah us too what do you think of this list tom i like it it's fun i like the alpha the weird unusual alpha of it mm-hmm and the deceiver just sits in the back and then he comes in his cleanup right because he's next round he flaming weapons himself and then and then skid leaves into six inches away to to now pick at the weekend things uh josh a any thoughts on the warp gnaw vermin lord yeah the the monster sarkana one my thoughts are he is incredible for his points right now and that won't last there will be an update to the monster sarkana that will come and he'll either get legends or get his points adjustment and not be as good so i wouldn't bet on him the next list is called rack and ruin this is a double warbringer list tom so this is probably right up your alley yep warbringer number one has devious adversary the warpstone charm and flaming weapon warbringer number two has rust cursed armor he could also have the shield of distraction or something if you wanted yep uh a regular claw lord on foot master molder gracier plague priest 30 storm vermin four rat ogres clan rats for chaff double command entourage to get the trip magic items uh and then uh the storm vermin and the rat ogres are in bounty hunters to go do some brutal brutal work this is much more straightforward and it's just like this it's just hammer time just hammers all the way down yep it's all you're doing it's like you still got some sneaky sneaky tricks um but like most of your army is fighting on twos and twos yep all the time yep just going in hot uh so yeah there you go fun uh yeah uh i i like i like the new scaven book is what i'll say yeah i mean this one's just all heat all the time right like if you want hammers this has hammers um yo uh and then finally thank will scheme so this is basically an exploration of what i talked about in the when we were talking about thank will yep so this uses bounty hunters warlord and command entourage it's like a million million drops who cares thank will with two warpfire brazers and two projectors a gracier so now we're at three master clan heroes uh a master molder slink and a plague priest on foot and then four rat ogres 30 plague monks five gutter runners 20 clan rats and a warp grinder so we're pulling the warp grinder plague monk trick again because why not we've got the rat ogre master molder trick thank will and then we've got launch on in the purple sun so obviously the plan here is very simple you get people you get the plague monks up with the grinder thank will goes up melts a unit drops a purple sun behind them yep and then so they're neg wonder to save and then in comes the plague monks on the re-roll and just goes to town right now being rend one slash rend three making like oodles of attacks profit yeah it's pretty straightforward yeah and thank will obviously can power out that purple sun quite easily so it's not really an issue yeah it's just like this is this is the thank will scheme is basically like an ungodly alpha strike because he launches up melts an entire unit walks in punches the crap out of something else while a horde of screaming plague monks come in and just go ham with a purple sun sitting behind them yeah and like even if the purple sun needs to put them into the neg one to save range which oftentimes you can make sure it doesn't but even if it did who cares like who cares if my like monks have neg one to save they were all gonna die anyways sure uh john dale says rend three question mark remember a six to hit on a plague monk turns them into rend two so hence with the purple sun as well they're effectively rend three so there you go there's three fun lists that was a quick journey at the end of the show but i hope that gave you some ideas um as far as like by list i mean it's there's no i wish i could tell you what somebody asked for like a simple by list i wish i could tell you what the simple by list uh was and i just don't have an answer for that no there's just a lot of different builds depending on this is the best way to describe it is you're looking at a city's like army that can kind of build and do whatever you want it to yep so it's just like find the combination of units that you think will make a compelling list for you and there you go start there it's a huge army um but i will say things that you should i i guess there's a couple i could say get a grace here on foot here he's going to show up in a ton of lists get a plague priest he's going to show up in a ton of lists um by a vermin lord because they're because you can build any of the vermin lords out of him so you know there you go yep and see if you can find four island of blood rat ogres so there you go those are all great places to start yeah and then like 20 clan rats because it'll often be a battle line unit you'll want to include just for cheap chaff so there there is like a potential by list we got there we got there all right well tom good stuff uh yeah sounds fun oh there you go josh a is this still a bad first army yes because it's so big and it relies on a lot of like it's why cities it's why cities it's not a good army yeah it's old models that are often challenging and hard to put together and annoying it's a huge multitudinous number of models often and it's uh like it's tough to build good lists it requires a lot of like careful play so yes at the moment it is still not a great starting army it's probably not a great best first army but hopefully we've helped if somebody wants to go there um but you know it's you it's I think it is a very good second army I think it may be one of the most fun second armies yeah all right well with that that brings us to the end hey everybody if you haven't hit like do so uh if you've uh haven't subscribed do you know do that too uh hey guess what there's an affiliate link down there now for element games so check that out if you're gonna buy stuff if this interested you to buy anything go use that link and go buy your stuff at element games um so cool uh and then uh as always if we've got a patreon if you want to support the channel that's focused on hobby and feedback uh so like if you're looking for to take your next step on your hobby journey check that out all that kind of stuff click buttons do things it's fun we appreciate your support as always it's really great and thank you to everybody who's watching and who's helped grow the channel over time this was a long show but a good one uh I'm happy with the book it's a good book not perfect but hey let's hope for uh let's hope for the LRL treatment okay that's all I'm saying fingers crossed uh anyways uh how do they look going into the meta uh I kind of talked about it a little at the beginning but my general feeling is good they're they're a they will firmly sit in the fat middle and and and the hands of a you know a strong player I think they will perform strongly so there you go yep agree with all that thank you so much everyone really appreciate it as always