 Good evening. Good evening, everybody. Good evening. My name is Victor Obaseke. I'm a member of the LBJ Future Forum Board. On behalf of the entire board, welcome to the Future Forum, and thanks for joining us for a conversation, Austin bombings, race, and the media. Now the forum, for those of you who aren't members, I see a lot of members out there, but for those of you who are not, we're an organization that strives to connect people, people of various backgrounds, experiences, know-how, and points of view. And we do that so as to thoughtfully discuss local, state, national topics that affect our communities and our society. We aim to make spaces for fair and informative dialogue. The forum's events are made possible by dedicated members as well as sponsors, including the Texas Monthly, Carbock Brewing, Austin Wine Merchant, and Joe Cooke's catering. So thank you members and thank you sponsors. And speaking of membership, we are a membership supported organization, so I strongly encourage you to join tonight. You can find one of the board members or members and find out how to do that, but please do that. We, and to speak to some of the things that that members get is early access to happy hours, events, networking opportunities, as well as benefits here at the LBJ Presidential Library. So really worth it, not just because there are great people involved, but there are great things to be had as well. And speaking of events, upcoming events include the sixth annual Easter Egg Roll on the lawn of the library, which is a really great family event. I encourage you to make it out. As well as the Women in Leadership annual Women in Leadership event is slated for late May and it's a really special event every time. So please join us for that. Now, I really look forward to hearing from our guests tonight. They're, you know, an esteemed group of folks who I think could speak really well to this particular topic. Please note that you will get the opportunity to speak at the end of the panel, so avoiding interruptions and what have you would be great. And let me just quickly tell you who will be on the panel. I will be moderated by the Ernest Smith of UT Journalism, UT Austin Journalism, Eric Tang of Black Studies here at UT Austin, Delia Jones of KUT, forgive me, and Editor John Bridges of the Statesmen. So please welcome them all to the stage. Yeah, and that that does remind me please silence your your devices if you would or at least vibrate. I left off the other Eric. Yeah, two Eric's. Two Eric's. Thank you everyone for joining us this evening. My name is Ernest Smith as you know, I'm a lecturer in the journalism department. I'm also a little bit out of breath because I just got through teaching a class, so I hope you're gonna come quietly back into the room. I think this is a very interesting topic. I will just tell you a story. I lived in Austin. My parents moved to Austin in 1970. I lived here until 1975 and then I went away different places and I moved back here in 2015 and for me one of the most stunning things about returning to Austin after all that time was what I call the Disappearance of actually the African-American community any sort of frame or fashion that I had seen before and when this pipe bomb pipe bomb bombing started There was even more of a sense of that loss because I know if I've been here in 1970 and this had happened there would have been I would have known exactly where to go to find out and so I think within the context of this story is also I think largely a Also a story about the changing demographics of the city and how it's impacted The ability of media to actually cover these things. It's all problematic race is always been a problematic topic I think for me to cover but I think sort of even more so between what I consider to be the the African station of Austin for lack of better words and the complete drop-off in terms of revenue and resources for reporting We have a really great panel here. That's gonna be talk about various aspects of it But since it was supposed to be essentially a panel that speaks to the media I was wondering if we might just do a first round with everyone about what do you think were the particular issues in media that particularly struck you as a problematic or Whatever, so we have a delay Jones here from NPR. So we'll start with you I think that the biggest issue for us was of course the terrorism label, but also just kind of do in rumor control It I even talked to my editor about this if we could have done this differently, I think that we would have kind of Tried to discuss this a little bit more with with the community, right? We would have had the community ask us questions, right? Because at the time when we didn't know who was doing all these bombings a lot of reddit rumors are going on You see a lot of fake news on Twitter Facebook So I think that that was the biggest issue is just having accurate information And making sure that you're using a dependable source to get that information Yeah, so I was managing editor this time last year and I think the biggest issue in this story was It was it played out over 19 days of just going from the unknown and the mystery of the first bombings to the Holy shit moment of the second and third bombings To The rest of it where we were all realizing that this could strike any of us and just the unknown aspects of this and so We were running around from dawn till dawn at times at the very end. I got a call at 311 in the morning from Tony Blahatsky saying he's dead and I knew pretty much what he meant It was that aspect of it that it was just we didn't know We didn't know what we know now. We really don't know a whole lot now. I'll tell you the truth But that aspect of it that being able to look in hindsight at some things is is very helpful But in the moment We didn't know a whole lot and for a while there we weren't being helped a whole lot by the police department They've they've fessed up to that in some ways But you know that just the not knowing and the running around trying to cover something with events happening Oliver all over the city I think the most interesting and problematic aspect of The media coverage during the crisis Was the fact that you had the first two victims were African-American men actually trailing Mason a boy a boy and then His mother Shamiko Wilson severely injured During that same incident and then the fourth victim severely injured Miss Herrera for Black and brown victims in historic east side of Austin and yet it was almost Painful for the media to talk about race unless There could be some threshold of hate crimes evidence reached in order, you know to to justify The discussion of race so I wonder if We needed to actually reach that threshold in order to have a substantive conversation about racial terror That comported with the fears of those on the historic black and brown east side Eric bird measure Austin I'm a native Austinite, so I was born and raised here Been here and in San Marcos, which is technically here now for most of my life All of my life and I have to echo exactly what the other panelists have said Is the first thing that stuck out to me was that the bomber was portrayed as this normal everyday American kid who Went to school and had friends and I mean I know so many of his friends just by reading articles and so many of the people close to him But I know very little about the victims all I knew at the time And all most of my social media sources and why I get most of my media All they knew is that the victims were primarily black and brown that they looked like us and in the East Austin where The population of black people are shrinking even though the population of Austin is growing It's scary to see that to black people a child That they were targeted and they were hit It's hard for us as black people to even find black people to socialize with But for for that to be a random happenstance is Is very unlikely and we knew that and so When it comes to credible media sources Reaching out and talking to the people like you said, I think that would be the best The best course of action at that point Don't have don't talk about us or discuss us or have an issue that affects us without us so get our opinion and see how we feel and see what our fears are and shared with people to let you know, hey everybody else is having this fear too. We don't know yet, but It's it's valid You know that you mentioned Norman Mason's grandson He is actually the cousin of my great nieces and nephews and the week that that happened I talked to the 16 year old and He He asked why didn't anybody care about him knows his cousin You know the way it happened it could have happened to him and he asked me why doesn't anybody care And you know, I told him I cared about him, but it doesn't play out He doesn't he didn't sense that for me that he is 16, of course And he has different feelings, but I just wanted to share that that this was an incredibly impactful event for people personally And so The notion of not being able to see himself. So there is a role for media. I would argue in terms of media today though that So much of it more now is Personal and It's social You know messaging for young people now is not through the statesmen or through the television It's it's in their own media. So I'm a big advocate of people Making their own media I wanted to talk though about the things that would affect the coverage I also have covered depiction of race and media and there's a number of things that affect that sort of framing as I looked at I just saw The similar frames for me what struck me was it seemed like it took a long time to or was it ever called a Hate crime was never described. Yeah, I don't think it was ever described eventually as domestic terror after the fact After the fact I was also curious as to what happened between the first Bombing and the second bombing is that the first one was covered like a cop story. Am I correct? Yeah, yes, but it was a drug. It was drug related. I think that a few days earlier. They had Like did a drug raid or something and then they thought that that bombing was connected to it because the house was similar Yes, so the first the first one is I think the biggest regrettable part of this whole thing in terms of coverage the Bombing that they killed stuff on house So it originally we reported it as what what police reported or the first responders reported as is a home explosion and You know what goes through your mind as a as a newspaper reporter editor is natural gas or Meth lab those those are usually why homes explode And so that that first day There was no mention of package bomb anything like that This is where I think the police very much regret their handling of this and it Misled us frankly The next Thing we were hearing was this bit about a there'd been a drug bust or drug something down the street so they were wondering if this was a Retailatory hit or something gone gone. They were the source of those rumors of police police. Yeah, please And they didn't use mr. House's name Until I believe Monday or Tuesday this happened on Friday My dear so like all this time goes by where it's unknown and police Active you know said in a press conference that that You know, they they were trying to figure out or could not rule out that the victim had caused this himself as if He were building a bomb and it blew up or whatever you do on a Friday morning So that I think that put us all in a weird place to start with in terms of what are we Talking about here because you don't go to serial bomber. You don't go to you don't even go to package bomber I mean that just never happened And and police didn't go there as well. They they went to Let's start with the victim and start working our way out because that's what we usually do in homicide cases And like I said, they didn't even use his name for a couple of days there and Yeah, for for me the biggest regret in this whole thing was not pressing in that period more pressing harder against this Or just why wasn't even official narrative of the official non narrative that was coming out or just talking to neighbors, right? so this year Well a few weeks ago actually visited with some of houses neighbors And this woman named Monica she told me that whenever she heard about the bombing and she Saw this correlation that APD I kind of put out about this drug raid and all of that. She was like that was so weird She was like he was just so nice, you know, he didn't look like he had been involved in anything They knew about the house a few houses down that was you know potentially involved in drugs with drugs But she said the way that APD had kind of painted the picture Just didn't seem right and this isn't and I didn't just talk to her I talked to a couple of neighbors who thought that was kind of weird So I think that we as the media could have done a better job of just kind of talking to the people around him And we tried we try we tried and failed to reach people who could identify him. Yeah, sure Through that weekend, but I don't think we did a good job that week so it happened on a Friday You know weekends aren't great for us. We don't do our best. We were thinly staffed and we have to Intentionally say go follow that thing that happened So I think we did not do a good job that weekend But and then and then coming into the next week. We were trying to get people to tell us About the victim and we didn't do a very good job there And then stories began to come out that you know, this wasn't a math lab. This wasn't a drug dealer This was a president of his homeowners association and all this kind of stuff, right? But if you had not you In particular, but we had dug one level deeper It would have been easily Revealed that house was a relative of a well-established African-American I saw his name. I thought is he related to it. Yeah, because it's a small town really and You wonder then whether or not There would have been more care given to the narrative from the outset had His connections to various African-American civic leaders in Austin been more But on the table earlier Well, you have to have people in the room who would know that So I Eric bird I wonder if you want to jump in here because I was gonna ask a question about who works where Yeah, I mean, I definitely agree with Dr. Tang. I believe that Asking those questions is important digging deep and I noticed you made an effort, but it seems like it was Well-known or his family is so well established so Yeah, maybe what was the care what level of care did you take in this case and in the future? You know, where's it gonna go? I would like to ask to what degree do who's in the room? Brings that knowledge. I my sister worked for the statesman for many years I'm sure if she had been there She would have probably said immediately known so Susan is who she would have known who he was So I'm curious to what degree do you believe that who's in the room and the economic downturn in media is affected? Further affected the ability to sort of get it a story like that Yeah, I would ask him. Yeah, I'm sure so for us There are fewer people in the room period and That's especially so say over a weekend Where we're skeleton staffed and with generally our youngest staffers You know, I don't recall I know I was off that Monday, which is I went back and was looking because I knew there was something Weird there where I came in at the middle of the week and said, why haven't we done more on who this guy is? and We were our attempts to do more for whatever reason Came up pretty dry I don't know what that covered it pretty minimally like we kind of like a mention Yeah, there was a statement wasn't you know, there were some other some other people get to some of these aspects before we did Well, we we mentioned it briefly on air, but well, I mean like the now I think like I think the TV stations probably had like the he was a homeowner some of these some of these things that didn't Fit with what cops were leading us to believe but Yeah, I think I think who's in the room? Matters and who knows whom in the community is important and yeah, I think that is across media today is Is a problem because there are fewer of us and there are fewer of us who are An age that we're connected into various communities, whatever they are We have more people who are you know a couple years out of school or whatever We all do sorry I would also say that Not only who's in the room, but kind of the demographic makeup of who's in that room, right? We in our newsroom we have plenty of people from Austin, right? But we don't have anybody from the black community Asian community Hispanic community as well who are from Austin, right? And so you have to make sure that you have Those particular types of people plugged in into those communities Jimmy for example Is from Austin born raised in Austin, but he didn't necessarily know the house family, right? So just making sure that if you are going to have those voices They are diverse and also from those communities as well Yeah, I'm starting to see Now that I'm learning the background what I noticed is that there was Misinformation from the police based on the assumption that they made based on You know an incident that occurred near the the bombing And then that misinformation was then passed on to us through the media So there was no due diligence On either part so the department Is not blameless in this situation either no and I'm sure we were passing everything along at that point There were so there were some Statements that were actually said publicly the thing about he could have We can't rule out that It wasn't something he was doing or whatever they said that they That they were so we had an event last week about this and we had the police chief and we had Nelson Linder and some other folks there and the police chief said, you know after that after hearing one of his Detectives say that and he said he walked into a room and slammed the door and said did we just tell I can't remember the age A four-year-old or a year-old girl that her dad was responsible for his own death And and from mr. Lenders point of view He Among the things that that he was regretful of and he feels some personal guilt That he was not in a position to be a leader or warn others in Austin's African-American community of which he is a leader this was going on because There was this really misinformation and I don't think it was intentional. I think I think police try Quickly we see this all the time where they go to They're there. It's okay We don't think the public is in danger like that's their first Thing they want to say and quite often it's like, you know, really, how do you know that? How do you know the public isn't in danger and when they say those words to us in the media that often means This was a suicide. This was a Someone knew the the victim Some some of these code words of what's going on and they were saying these things which Turned out to be completely wrong. They had somebody running around the city leaving package bombs on doorsteps and gave us no No word of warning But then Draylin Mason is killed and and Within minutes those who are familiar with the political leadership in the African-American community know that the Praline Mason's family and house's family not only know each other, but know each other well What does the media do with that information? I mean, I'm not I would yeah So I mean for us I remember that that morning because we had just been so we have a morning news Meeting and one of these I was a day before or whatever was like, what are we doing on this bombing thing and And it was frustrated that we had not done more on the very first case and Then we had the second one and just like let's get everybody on this like get the investigative team It were on this thing and then we had a third one two hours later three hours later whatever was I think we I Think from then on You know, we were putting together the Freddie Dixon and Mason connection There was a Mason who lived down the street from Miss Herrera We were Just like police where we were trying to figure this stuff out and putting connections together So I think at that point The possibility that it was Some kind of hate crime some kind of racial thing I think that was in everybody's Was was forefront and I think that was Came out in the coverage we couldn't say that it was race-based and say that it was a hate crime because It's a year later. We still say you're literally we still don't know. Yeah, I would say it's not our job to speculate Right, it's not our job is to put out the facts, right? So when we did find out like I know for us when we did find out that Draylin and houses family They knew each other we made sure that we put out that information And then we made sure that we especially after the Herrera bombing We made sure that we put out that they were all people of color That was something that stuck out and something that a lot of the people of color in our newsroom talked about we were like We need to make sure that that information is known So again, it's not our job to kind of come to that conclusion But it is our job to say houses family knew Mason's family Herrera's family, you know Maybe there's not any connection that we know of but we do know that these three people are of color Yeah, we spent three days trying to find the woman named Mason down the street from the her house We finally found her and she said oh, yeah, I'm not related to them I'm not I'm not from Austin. I'm from whatever whatever her story was but a year later that connection remains and If John you're saying we don't know That might be true, but is that still haunt us in some ways it does me. No sure I Still want to know What the overall motive was we don't know we there was a Recorded thing that we haven't been allowed to listen to and may never be able Allowed to listen to that might explain things And yeah that that the the bombers backgrounds leads One to think that Yeah, they might There might really have been some Racial related Motive I know listening to mr. Linder last week. He sure thinks so You will I had a question because I think that sort of unknown about it I do think adjournments jobs and put out the facts, but kind of like those facts were sort of You kind of put them together and it you know it looked very racially. Mm-hmm And I think in a way, you know, I'm doing the ethical consideration here I think in a way not saying it was is You know, I found it kind of a bit sort of problematic because that's what everyone thought So knowing that people might think that mm-hmm when you put this out, I mean, what do you what do you do with it? We decided to say that People are suspecting that it's racially motivated. It's like again. We can't say that it is unless APD says that it is so we kind of just Kind of describe what the community's reaction was To actually affirm and to acknowledge that concern rather than saying that ourselves That's how we would handle it Or what is the kind of threshold that we need to reach in order to say? definitively that community members feel Something akin to racial terror So that was to me an interesting Dilemma myself when I was asked to give the New York Times an op-ed on this on the incident that If I was gonna write it I couldn't Be beholden to the hate crimes threshold in order to talk about race, but I Still needed to talk about race and what was interesting is that in some of the feedback I got from the public there were those who are apoplectic about me mentioning race because clearly The evidence didn't suggest that this was a hate crimes, and I thought that was That was an interesting emotional reaction where There were some who just disavowed The racial aspects that you're tired of the after that they're the third or fourth come out after the Travis country bottom Yeah, so I mean at that point everybody's like, oh, yeah, we said something to do with it I'm always like, you know, do we know that right? That's so I mean that's that's kind of what it was the um The force with which they dismissed this that I found to be really curious And that's why we followed up with our reporting right about all of those racial tensions coming, you know to the surface We were like yeah, even though APD says, you know, these two white men were injured in this neighborhood This is bringing up a larger conversation, and this is a weird pattern, right? And so I think for us we didn't ignore that fact and maybe This was like a national news because all the local news that I saw as well We're kind of acknowledging this internationally. They said it was a hate crime. Yeah I think we have to we have to be honest with us in the national coverage and you know You know all niceties aside and trying to find thresholds To be honest, you're not wrong, and I think we all know that you know that it is racially motivated Black people make up six percent of Austin to hit black people twice. That is what point Point three point three six percent So what are the odds that you're gonna hit a black person twice or a black home twice in Austin point three six percent? That's not even a percent. It's not even a whole number Um That we have to be honest with ourselves I think it's I think it's better that we're honest with ourselves To allow us to heal and move forward because we're still having this conversation a year later Obviously, there's something there that we haven't resolved. Let's be honest. Let's talk solutions and let's move forward I do think that in the in the realm of media now. I agree with you Erica, I think the racial denialism is like this top of the charts and in America now. It's just it's huge I think it's easier to actually It's easier to be a racist today than it is to call somebody one That's seems to be the way it is And so that's that's an issue I think in society as it's addressed in the media though We are in a I think in an environment in which there really is not a media It's kind of an ecosystem of all these different things in it and the messaging, you know Primarily in terms of young people is through, you know, basically social media and so you were mentioning solutions I know you're interested in that, you know, I do think to some degree You know that that people need to be empowered in terms of making their own and it's possible to you know within You know socially especially among young people Austin does have the scattered and diffused, you know, black community the chances of that's what I thought when I read the story The chances of hitting us twice. Yeah, he'd have to I mean this so it struck me as improbable So as a piece of journalism, I would have written the story seems highly improbable that you could do that But I also think that people these days I think to look at the media I used to be personally critique the media all the time and say blah blah blah It's really not it's actually to be self-defeating because the influence of places like the statesmen I think it's just kind of not it's big here But in terms of the ecosystem, it's not influencing people that much and tell something gets them like this It's my you know my critique on me The other thing too is racial terror doesn't have to be coherent. No, I mean we we think that in order for us to call it that That it needs to square in some ways. It doesn't because it's racial terror I mean, I think that one thing we're not talking about is like who makes up these newsrooms to write we have to talk about that now there are some people that have I think that the place like NPR which is In a sense publicly a little bit quasi publicly funded it goes on a nonprofit model Increasingly they're more stable news institutions are nonprofits and there is an issue within those of Basically, you know no diversity. So what what is it like at? Put you on the spot. What's the diversity of the reporting team at KUT? So for our particular team, we're separate from the Texas standard. So for us, there's me We have one Latino woman one Latino male We had we Not so you to just left for Dallas. So, yeah, she's gone and then we have one Brazilian and Lebanese mixed woman in our in our newsroom. So that's pretty much the makeup I would say like a little over half are women And then the rest are Predominantly white though. Um, you know, I'm curious because What can people in the public do about the situation like that? I mean anything you would suggest the public to do about the lack of diversity and I could be so-called non-profit nonpartisan news organizations, I guess I would say demand more from your newsroom But the onus isn't on the public, right? That's on us. It's on the leaders in our newsrooms It's still irritates me to this day to hear I can't find a black reporter or Hispanic reporter or Asian reporter, right? What are you doing actually go into those spaces, right? so Yeah You know, it's interesting because that was an issue You know when I started this business in the 70s and it still seems to be a repopulated issue except for now it seems to be in newsrooms where the sort of political leadership is more Liberal than they certainly were in the 70s So I think that's a sign of sort of the lasting kind of, you know, the heart it is to break up that kind of mentality Because nonprofits journalism and that's the most influential point of journalism right now. They are quite quite They're quite monolithic and in their in their background I don't know what the timing is here But I was wondering if we have if we wanted to have bring the audience into this discussion now Anyone so I said someone's gonna bring a microphone This is a right I Was wondering if y'all could speak to so I think Almost all of us can agree that motive is important, but why is it so important? Why would one motive mean something so different than another and how would that affect the community? Well, I'm not I'm not ready to go where these gentlemen are in terms of I think I think the math would tell you okay Yeah, it's it's hard to it would be hard to randomly pick two African-American households and then followed up with the Latino household I don't know I can come up with other explanations may if I want to but You know the next ones were in a predominantly white area and I think the We tracked down one of the packages that was not one of them that was intercepted the FedEx facility And I think that was a white woman if I recall so We don't know how the how the guy was selecting these addresses and So just on effect, you know, I can't go to the you know Yeah, we could put in a story and at the number the but what is the math? What are the odds? But I can't say It was one thing or another in terms of a motive because that's we just don't We don't know that and so them so the motive to me, you know is Would be important because I Think your question was why is the motive important though? Yeah, I would say like a motive would have just Well, this is what I thought before what I'm about to tell you So I think that a motive would have helped us kind of find maybe a simpler answer to this issue, right and maybe like Trying to find trends in the area, you know, was there anything that he was associated with but I actually on Sunday just did an interview with a Psychologist who even talked about after these kind of like mass attacks in these events that when you do know more Information it kind of creates more confusion, right or just kind of like more questions rather than answers And so like once he kind of explained that and kind of explained his research It kind of made me think like yeah, you know if we had known, you know, that maybe this was racially motivated, you know We still would have had questions at the end of the day, right? So yeah, I mean that's kind of I think we want we as humans want to Have want to have a simple explanation for these things and that was one of the confounding things of this But what would be days of terror and the year senses we still don't really know much Well, what would have been important for us is to kind of like to wrap up the story right to wrap up the narrative, right? We had reported so much over like you said 19 days and like not to have it like a definitive answer Right, it just kind of seems It just doesn't seem finished if that makes sense, but if we if we move off of Motive and we talk about other things like say disparate impact We have a story there and we have a clear narrative. I think it's True enough to say that a particular segment of the Austin community felt specifically terrified by what was happening and That is worth speaking about Clearly but I think a side that was done, you know Setting aside motive and if it was done then You can debate whether or not we felt it was done in a way that fully represented those fears. I Think they're still a chilling effect to this day. I think that people still feel a Level of fear about what happened and that is a story that we could tell now Yeah, remember we did a story on Which we were with church Wesley, you know Methodist I think was the church that they want to yeah That we were you know talking to The pastor and some of the congregation members again trying to put these things to get we spent a lot of time Trying to put those puzzle pieces together and I think it was all in the context of These people look alike and live in the same part of town it's got to be something going on here It's just we could not definitively say This is what it was and I feel like we still can't say that and you may never be able to and I'm sorry I know there were other hands because I think if you know, there's a say a psychological autopsy done on On the bomber and it's con the conclusion is that You know, there is no political coherence To what he did then that forecloses the discussion about racial motive, right? And so in some ways, I don't necessarily think we need to To have that in order to have the discussion about Impact yeah, I guess I think there's multiple there's multiple narratives that can happen at once on the story I think there's multiple ones working here And I think that's very difficult in media for people to get at multiple things absolutely and I don't think the I don't think you ask why is it more important to have this motive than that motive I don't think it is I think just the the lack of of knowing the lack of Knowing what his motive was and light of all the where the evidence points that causes Anxiety and fear and and the trauma doesn't stop and so we can't heal unless we have answers I think that's where we are. So any motive if it turns out he rolled the dice Then I think that would allow us to start healing from there And to me the bigger there the big racial story that that came out of this Was and you you you touched at it first. I think in your piece or one of the first was that this pointed Out the racial division that we have in the city That started a long time ago still exists today Maybe is even more so now because of displacement of so many people I guess for the school district it goes through where we live it goes through income lack of income mobility which we're way down the list in terms of that and that we Think of ourselves as this progressive city in so many ways yet In this in this regard we were not very far along and and so I I think the The bombings and Austin and race To me that was the thing that was sort of the long the Longer-tail story Out of it all was kind of showing this to the rest of the rest Those of us here know this But to the rest of the world to show okay, hey liberal progressive Austin doesn't walk the log Hi, good evening, I'm sorry We know that media plays a tremendous impact on shaping the narrative and so as it relates to race You know hindsight's 20-20 and you talked a little bit about that earlier and here we are a year later How have your organizations? Incorporated a racial discussion to make to take steps to to have a better understanding of the racial impact in Austin How those discussions happened and or what changes have been made or are you willing to make internally so that? The community can have a different perspective in future reporting Yeah, so for us we did a lot to follow up after the fact with With the neighbors right so like I just did a story where I went to the The neighborhood where house where house lived and then I went to the neighborhood where I'm forever live Right, and I wanted to show this this difference right in the type of How everybody was traumatized, but in very different ways, right? So, you know this this white woman, you know lives in this suburban neighborhood and how she's healing and then this Latino Latina sorry woman and how she's kind of dealing with the right this woman who has access to Psychology right to therapy this woman who they really don't even talk about it anymore, right? It's kind of like you have to you know kind of move on So I think that that's like one aspect of how we're dealing we're kind of dealing with it And then as well as talking to manly and even you know bringing up the racial issues That came along with the case and then as a newsroom we meet together and we're talking to each other Like what could we have done differently next time? When do we say something is racist or racially racially charged which is something that irritates me to the state? So, yeah, just making sure that we're checking back in with each other and also the community so Yeah, we had lots of discussions at the time and We did a long piece After the fact it was kind of echoed what you had written About the larger racial impact in Austin and touched on a lot of things we've talked about here today But to me the the more basic thing is Is just basic reporting it doesn't matter what color of the skin, you know, I mean for a while there I don't think we knew the color of the scan of the victim It's it's the reporting into pushing against the police narrative That kind of piece where I felt like we had a couple of days go by of Lost time and that to me was to me. That's the biggest regret of Our Reporting was it's felt like we weren't on our a game. It doesn't matter what what the color of the victim was in that regard It was just like we Didn't do as good as I was going to what do what to what degree just the you know economic dam turn in terms of You know revenues for newspapers or what degree did that affect your ability to cover? I mean anything, but it's particularly impactful in a submerged situation. I think you have a lot less staff Yeah, there's a lot fewer of us and you know, we we have a newsroom of 80s something people today And we would have had more last year and we you know 15 years ago without a newsroom of 205 when Jay worked there But So yeah, there are fewer of us were staff less on weekends are fewer of us to say. Hey, where are we following up on this? We're more likely to get distracted by the next thing You know, I think that same day we had the jeweler get shot out in Wherever you get shot that whole case was going on really the one the son allegedly did so When things are happening We are people we get distracted And so that happens and we don't always Follow up. We're not this monolithic Thing where we sit around after the fact and all smoke cigars and you know, hey, what do we do? It's in the moment. It's a bunch of people in a room saying, okay, you do this. Okay, this didn't work out Let's move on to that and Yeah, we we make mistakes in that regard Yeah, so we've talked a lot about kind of like what the journalistic threshold is to bring race into the picture like if the police say it Then everybody is allowed to repeat what the police said and like Journalistic standards are important, but it seems like there are multiple thresholds that we're talking about like if a church Talks about being racially scared then you can report on that racial fear, but it seems like we have some conflicting Impulses here towards being more scared of saying it in the first place and less scared and and being wrong then of Saying it at all Right, that are to not say it then to be wrong Yeah, we're not gonna be wrong. That's a great question. I mean we're well for I don't know about anybody else And just where that line changes over time and if this has changed where that line is Again, I think that it really matters on the makeup of your newsroom, right? so I don't think that And not to put like KUT kind of like, you know, but the fire or anything But I don't think that KUT hasn't as a news organization has had certain conversations About race until like folks like me or like, you know, some of my colleagues of color have gotten there, right? and I Think that that threshold changes when you get people like me right in that newsroom or when you actually have your news Organization do like maybe even a diversity workshop because a lot of places don't do that as well So I know for me what like after this Drail and one and then after the Herrera one I was like, we gotta call this like it's something racist about this. I was like we get we have to call it out like Right, but but sorry, but you know as a reporter I can't make that last call That's my editor's last call too And so I think that that onus kind of falls more on the leadership of the newsroom as well because I'm gonna say it like I'm gonna let you know but again My editor gets the last call on that so Yeah, well, I wouldn't say that at that point. I mean we said what we said which was All of these were in East Austin Southeast Austin Black and Latino households fear of the community Fear that it's racially mode. All those those are the words we use we don't say race based killings bombings through Austin Till we say I gotta know Incident or something that's racially related, you know, yeah, there was this question here I'm Phyllis Walder and I have a question about validation how much of a part of The reporting had to do with validation Going back to the very first person who was killed mr. House. Mr. House was not validated His name as you said was not mentioned until Monday He had to be validated Yeah, in order to have the news media do a more thorough investigation two weeks past and He hadn't been validated and and for me, that's a concern Why couldn't this man who was just a father a Husband living in a community who was murdered Why did he have to be validated? For someone to care that he had died in the presence of his child So I'm my question is How much of a part of validation? Does investigating this kind of crime play and what the news media does I can speak to what we did So that that that's that's the point I was making to my own newsroom a couple days in and was sort of like I feel like we haven't gone back to to this To tell the story of who this guy was Soon enough And then that was again there are lots of reasons for that, but I don't think any more Racial related. I think we didn't do a very good job And by the end of that week I felt like we had told a decent story of Who he was but it took too long Yeah, there are lots of reasons for that and I think I spoke to those I would have to say That it may and thank you miss Holder for your question I think it's a very important question and it may always take too long once you get the narrative wrong that kind of sticks and As a black man after Trayvon Martin and I after I saw how he was portrayed I went on my social media I've removed everything that if I died that day could could incriminate me as a thug or as somebody who Wasn't an educated person with a master's degree. I took everything down all the pictures of me and my family that you know, whatever Because and I'm not sure if all of you have done that have you all done that maybe not maybe Right we may have different experiences, but that's my experience as a black man because I know that The the due diligence may not be done in my case if something happens to me and It's it's a pattern that's it's all too prevalent and maybe it's time that Media takes a look at that and understands that maybe it's the first time they're hearing that but saying that okay in these cases For whatever reason implicit bias where you want to call it. It's happening. So let's make a Intentional effort to dig deeper to find out who people really are I think that that's a responsibility to communicate with each other right or to hold these like community conversations, right? And to talk about you know why the news media it media is apprehensive about calling something a certain thing But also hearing from the community right and listening to exactly that reason right there So yeah, the social media ones interesting Story and scrubbing your own on pages interesting And just the opposite case here with the bomber we had a couple of our heads We knew who he was I knew he was at three something in the morning or I had a name and I was going I was all over his Facebook page screenshotting everything I could get and So we were and we were going through his friends. Let's sit on his Facebook page for hours and trying to match people up and find people Get out to his house his parents house that morning before daylight again before his name was ever out there and Anyway, so yeah, we do that and we form a narrative based off of what we find on that Social page and I can oh, yeah, that's why the point is well-taken. That's why I've deleted any pictures that could you know I Okay Hi, I just wanted to say um, I think that we also have to acknowledge that when the media does not take a Forward step in calling something terroristic or Racist that Communities of color get hurt Right because it almost leaves us and I would imagine that Nelson Lender that this is probably what he said But it almost leaves us defenseless right and and I feel like That there's a history of that by not for warning or preparing Communities of color to take more of a defense against something. I know my own experience Was that well first of all, you know My son and Draylin were very very close. So So hearing that, you know already quickly put me on the defense, right? I know that everybody didn't have those connections and everything. So I immediately Called my you know, don't go to the door. Don't get any packages. Don't don't go outside and And and so anyway, I just feel like there has to be there has to be more accountability to the media when it comes to Preparing the community to be to have to have some defense, right? Secondly that that that notion of validation is so super-duper important because what if Draylin did not play the cello? Oh, that's yeah, that's you know, yeah, like what if he didn't play the cello, you know So I just I feel like there's so there's so many deep Racist issues with the way that this story was was even put out that I mean we still to this day Are still just kind of like pitter-pattering around So anyway, hi, Mimi. By the way But speaking about that like the the cello thing right and that was something that I like brought up in our newsroom I was like even though this this, you know, Draylin was an amazing musician, right? But that's not what makes his life valuable, right? And this was something that I was kind of making sure that I repeated over and over again is like his life isn't his life Isn't Valuable because he was you know gonna get this scholarship and all of that but I was like Let's just look at him as a human being Not as this young black boy who just happened to be very talented, right? And I think that that was like a perfect example That's something that just kept burning me and that's something that still burns me today Even like looking back on like the coverage a year later, you know this very talented, you know young teen And it's like no, you know, this is a young boy kill You know if very land have been white would we have led with the fact that he played the cello, right? So well, I think we want we want information and that's Sorry for your loss there But we want information and that was that was the frustrating part with Stefan houses that was for so many days. We didn't have a name and then in our case I don't think we did a very good job and immediately afterward Asperanza Herrera, I still don't know a whole lot about her and we've tried But people around her don't want to don't want to talk don't tell us that story. Do you know why though John? Do you think just privacy? I mean her you know, I mean Her injuries were pretty catastrophic and what we know and Yeah, I don't know and it might be that they are The family members are suspicious of us and not trusting of us and all that kind of stuff that may well be But we've tried many we went back a year later We still haven't had much much like there same with the the the two two boys out and young men out in Travis country We knew a little bit about them because we lucked into a friend of one of theirs called us or something like that and But we you know, they still haven't really really told their story and we don't have really done much on them Can I answer your question about why they wouldn't want to talk to us? I think that we outside of these bombings. We need to do a better job of reporting on these We we don't need to just go there whenever something catastrophic happens And this is why there is a mistrust with the media is because we aren't there when everyday events happen Yeah, and I think that that's something that we have not acknowledged. So yeah Hello, thank y'all for being here. My question is kind of leading up in this conversation You should include in the community a couple weeks after KUT held an event in East Austin and asked members of the community to come up and the intermittent police chief was there Do you think that event helped the community heal? Do you think we should have more of those types of events of bringing out the community to speak to these members and having it Broadcasted, or do you think for the members of the community and leaders in the community? Was that more of a show? I Can't answer that aspect of it but what I can say is It depends on what your definition of healing is right and then also people heal in very different ways I think that that event answered a lot of questions I think that we had conversations that we weren't able to have without it, but I don't think that it solved the issue, right? So I think that it it acknowledged our feelings, but not necessarily fix the issue. I think that that is more on like Just like the city and just kind of making sure that we're doing that work like again going back to my story that I did the year after coverage I Asked Chas Moore. I said so, you know Mayor Adler talked about knowing your neighbor talked about reaching out more, right? So what is the city doing right now to kind of cultivate those conversations and those relationships? We haven't heard of anything, right? We have all these memorials for the victims, which is rightfully so but we're still not having these conversations And I think that that needs to start happening More consistently rather than a month later or a year later when the anniversary comes up, so I Think we are July stop Okay, we'll take one more and then we can continue the comp. We'll have a reception and we can continue talking over wine and beer So there was some Thank you all for doing this and Eric bird sorry for not saying your name and introducing you all Eric works with eyes of vice-president measure Austin Which is a racial justice and data organization that works really closely with police police are a key part of this story and I guess I Guess my question is The relationship between police or officials and media Particularly the police given the relationship with communities of color How do you with nuance develop that relationship and report what is officially provided by the police So Yeah, for us we Have some good sourcing within some official channels, not just the police department, but Prosecutors and others who will tell us stuff, which is very helpful They're telling you they're I'm not always telling you their version of things sometimes they're telling you how they screwed up but they're You know they are a source. So there's the official what they're saying and then there's the Stuff that they're not ready to say yet or that they only want to say off the record or whatever and then we have to go find some other way to To validate it and get it in into print You know at the same so so there there's this buddy buddy relationship that goes on with sources and Officials at the same time You know Most police don't like us They're you know, we are very critical of What they do And we report on all the bad things they do or the ones we know about So it's I think like a lot of things it's a complicated Relation it sort of brought up a question of me though because I know that in the case of a I'm sorry. Her name escapes me the school teacher. Oh Yeah Jackson was our yes Those tapes like came out like a year later, and they were they came out because media We got the story yeah, you went to work. Yeah, I'm curious why you can't get this tape of the boys confession That's because APD won't release it well I know but you you know I mean isn't that if it's in their possession isn't that then of some kind of public record It's still an open case right they still consider it an open investigation And when they say those words they can trump anything and the text is open public information act And I think that's it well, I mean the police chief says I think that's true Police chief last week Said if it were up to him it will never yeah be made public and he so this was one where he and and Nelson Lender just you know so much like I want to know what this is because I I Need explanation and I think this is white domestic terrorism pretty much what he said And we need to hear this to stop other people like him like this this guy And the police chief is saying that he doesn't want to Validate to steal your word. He doesn't want to give any more voice to To the bomber to inspire It think it's a complicated line so like even if we did have access to the tape It's more of you know, would we Air the tape would we just say what he said in the tape? How do you how do you express what this man had done in this video without actually validating him? Right, which is what it seems like his attention was was he wanted that attention? Yeah, we would have that conversation Do we we would run the words no doubt? It's a question of how do we do the do you want to meet your organization? Pressing the police or suing the police to get this thing released Yeah, well right now there's the way the Texas Public Information Act works There's really nothing to do. They can they can say these magic words and shut everything down But the different police chief could have a different decision about that, right? Potentially, yeah I know we all want to motive, but it's just very interesting. I know that it was because of the media pressure that the tapes Yeah, so the King case so I mean that was that was a result of good source work by Tony Plohetsky on our staff I can't remember exactly how that one came about I just remember Tony coming in and tell me I got a line on this thing somebody's gonna give me these tapes I'm like awesome. Let's let's watch him and It took a it took some negotiating to get them and I I don't think they were I think they were coming from I think they were coming away from her lawyer or something like that. I don't think they came from police police did not want those out and Yeah, and you sell it became okay with that. I also think that these are two very different cases as well And the result from seeing these would be very two different results. I think I agree I agree. I was just curious because I know that the media is instrumental in one instance Is there another question? Are we? There was one way in the back is that I had a long time and since we're way over Good evening, my name is Lauren. Thank you all for being here. So my question is that while with this particular incident with it it could have been racially profiled or Having that motive is hard to say definitively though. What's interesting about it Is it uniquely created fear across the community? I think for many people's And so what my question is I'm curious in terms of when you are in the the position of shaping a public narrative as Presented in the media on something of this nature that has like a widespread impact What strategies do you have to like check yourself and your own assumptions or bias biases of what? Could have shaped it or what could have sparked it for the sake of As a community us like further awakening to the higher truths of just where we are as a society And where we want to go because it's easier for those of us who do believe in just like They're in disparities that there are or the disparities that there are amongst several racial I mean several societal institutions. It's harder for those who are not ready to dive into that conversation So I think with situations like this that do create fear amongst Just the community at large in general. It's a it's a time for us to think about how can we Present it in a way where all of us are willing to lean in and hopefully as a collective go beyond where we are currently So there's the question the strategies that you use to kind of check yourself Yeah to present something in a more robust way to so that the audience can embrace it where they're at and hopefully Awaken to broader truths if they're not ready to take parts of the story. I would say just different angles That's like a I don't know if that's an answer at all. I know that's what we did So we did we did story coverage of the actual bombing events And we mentioned about like the race and all of that and you know APD not calling it terrorism But we also do like a whole separate story about the race issue in Austin As well, so maybe like different aspects of this thing, so Yeah, I think it's that and then internally, you know, we have these conversations all the time like Do we want to name this guy? Whatever the case is do we what are we saying here by playing this on the front page? What are we saying these are conversations? We don't get it right all the time and we disagree by ourselves and sometimes we regret the way we did something or people but But we have those conversations and we do have a diverse group of people asking those questions in the room That happens, but we don't We don't always do it right, but we try One of the thresholds to us is did we at least talk about it like before we ran the picture or whatever the controversial thing is of the day Did we at least have a conversation? We might have screwed up, but did we at least talk about it? Jay will remember those conversations from photos like did we at least talk about whether we're going to run the dead body on the front page? And that I don't know that that that gives us some Solace at least that we're going through a process of like did we ask the questions did we press against each other's thoughts and Yeah, did we at least have the conversation getting feedback we get emails all the time And You know, we may do a survey or something like that So just making sure that we're not only looking inwardly at ourselves But how is the community looking at us in what ways that can we you know fix that and check ourselves when we need to Well, I think gentlemen, would you have any last words their bird I Well, first of all, I'd like to thank Victor and The future forum for inviting us out here. I think these in these conversations are extremely important I think we haven't come to the point where we We've had any resolution and I think it's been a combination of different factors but I think I Think it's important that we know what's on the tape and at which point It's also important that it's filtered in the right way And responsibly so it doesn't incite any copycat or anything like that We we don't want this to continue But it's important to know because we need to know what factors to watch out for we need to know what conversations to have Where we can pinpoint and target our circle surgical strike against whatever the motive is and so yeah You know, one of the things that I think is really important when we look at the situation in Austin in March 2018 years from now is how would this have played out in Another city a pure city, you know, what is it about Austin? That this event articulated in the way that it did meaning you have a context where these populations on the east side are already feeling endangered and their institutions have been hollowed out by Not just the housing market and what's happening by way of gentrification, but also in my view by years and years of Neglect when it comes to resolving Austin's long Race and class inequalities and so that's the context in which this is happening context where people already feel endangered and I think that to me was not there contextually there and so people Will say well, well, hey, how is this happening in this particular city, right or What's going on in Austin? This seems so strange and I think if we had a sustained discussion Around these hard truths Then the reaction of surprise and Austin exceptionalism and wow, this is anomalous Doesn't crowd out the discussion about what's really happening. I think that's a good place to end it Thank you all for coming out. Thank the panelists You