 Ladies and gentlemen, good morning. I want to welcome all of you here in person and attending the conference online to this World Economic Forum session of the summer doubles here in Tianjin. We're talking about China-Africa relations, a mutually transformative relationship today. And first of all, I really want to take this opportunity and welcome all of you to China or shall I say back to China after a multiple year absence has been the difficult few years, I know that. But welcome back. I hope you have had a good journey so far and welcome to this session. China-Africa relations is certainly one that is both marked with potential and controversies from time to time. Oftentimes when people talk about China-Africa relations, we tend to look at it from a bird's eye view. But down to the specifics, the nitty gritty of the relationship, there's so many components of it, it's multifaceted. So today I think it's a very important conversation that I'm really honored to have, I would say a cutting edge group of panelists joining us today to delve into the specifics of this evolving landscape of China-Africa interaction. We hope to walk away today with many nuanced understanding of this relationship. Without further ado, let me introduce the panelists for today. I will have sitting next to me, the Honorable Felix Tapioa Mahona, he's the Minister of Transport and Infrastructure Development of Zimbabwe. Welcome, sir. Great to see you. And also we have Madame Nocoluleko Nuyembezi, the Chairperson of Standard Bank Group of South Africa. That is the largest bank anywhere in Africa. We have Ricard Ingvarson, Chief Executive Officer from Scan Global Logistics Asia. Last but certainly not least, Wang Yiwei is the Professor from Erumian University from People's Republic of China who writes extensively about China-Africa relations, among other things. So let me start with you, Minister, if you don't mind. China-Africa relations, of course, is a huge topic, but China-Zimbabwe relations in particular is one that is marked by friendship, long-term friendship. There is a continuity of government in your country, so it is in China. It's a very strong partnership, but the same might not be said or cannot be said about China's interaction with some other countries in Africa. We've heard about the controversies regarding the infrastructure projects, whether or not the nature of Chinese investment in Africa is attractive, some call it neocolonialist, but China-Zimbabwe relationship is certainly bothering something that is most of times friendly and mutually beneficial. So how do you really look at China-Africa interactions in general and China-Zimbabwe friendship in particular? I thank you so much, Wang, and to this team delegates. I truly privileged to be here and feel humbled. And to answer your question, Brother Wang, it is true, and what I want to portray here is the negative perspective that we have when it comes to China-Africa relations, where people have the tag to say, maybe what comes to African countries, inferior, but I want to also ride on the point that you've highlighted the relations that we have, that are strong relations based on our founding fathers, and as we speak, the current leadership is excellent Comrade Emerson Damsom Nangagwa and Comrade Xi Jinping, which is of sound foundation. And I'm happy to say, yes, in Africa, you have seen that we are endowed with resources. And this is something that we must break about is Africa. And what we've been hearing for years is the value addition of our resources, we're not necessarily from China and Zimbabwe, and Africa in general, but we are saying we also need to tap into our resources and also be in a position to validate. That's what I would see in a number of fora, people talking about neocolonialism, in the sense that resources are actually going one direction from Africa to Asia or even beyond. But what is of paramount importance, Brother Wang, is that, yes, the relations that we have that have been cemented, and we need to ride on that relationship. And I may be that to take it close at home, when you talk of Zimbabwe, we really enjoy cordial relations with China. And as we speak, and within the next two weeks, we'll be commissioning one of the largest airports in Africa, the Robert Gabriam Gabi International Airport, which is a result of these relations that we are talking about. So it is very important to then say, and it is historic in the sense that it was completed within two years, which is something that is of paramount importance. And not only that, if you look at the energy sector, everyone is crying, we are talking about close to 800 million without energy globally, but we are saying we are mitigating the issues to do with energy shortages in Zimbabwe, where recently, again, we've commissioned the Wang 7 and 8 as a result of this relationship that we are having with China. And above all, we've got one of the best parliaments that has been constructed again by this kind of relationship that we are talking about. So for us, we break as a country, but however you raise the issues of controversies, and I'm sure this can be found in other jurisdictions where people are saying, in terms of continuity, whether it's change of governments, but for us, it was quite stable. You know, for the past 40 years, we were having one president, and now we've got a brilliant president, Comrade Demas Abdam Zomangago. So there is continuity. And even it does back to the liberation struggle, where we're also having solace and comfort and training from China. So precisely, I can say, we are very happy, and it could be something that we must preach to the world that, yes, let us wake. And this same philosophy of waking hard is what we are also embracing as a country. So globally, I can say to the African countries, yes, what you only need to do is to make sure that we don't continue just exporting our raw materials, whether they are raw minerals, but we also need to gravitate towards the further step of evaluating our resources. Thank you. Recently, we were talking to the president of DR Congo, the honorable Mr. Gisekeli. There was this infrastructure for mining deal that was signed in the 1990s that got delayed a couple of times, and then the deal has been renegotiated. How do you see situations such as that? Do you think those are mostly issues deriding from the market, the Chinese businesses, when they have deals with the local governments? Or do you think the policy makers should be responsible for that? And also you talk about the fact that you're trying to turn resource curse into resource blessing, and how do you see China coming into play with that regard? Thank you very much, Brother Wang. It is true that, yes, like I indicated earlier on, that in other jurisdictions, you might find such controversies, and you alluded to earlier on that it could be due to change of government, and if you look at the DRC that you've just cited, my namesake, H.E. Felix, Mr. Gisekeli, you find that the change of government, like you indicated, could be a contributing factor to that effect, but also above all the issues to do with transparency and accountability, which is to be enshrined in our Supreme Constitutions of paramount importance. Whether they are deals, they must be brought before parliament for scrutiny, and you find that Africa in countries is something that we just need to write on, and also to take it closer home in our Supreme Constitution. We also value the issues of transparency and accountability, but where it is vague, you would have such people alluding to issues to do with controversies. So it is a humble plea again to us as a continent to say when we partake into such deals, we also need to be transparent. Yeah, there's so many issues I wanna ask your opinions on, but for the moment, Madam New-Yam Benzi, how do you look at this evolving partnership between China and Africa from the perspective of being the owner of the largest bank in South Africa? Well, it's actually somewhat more, from my perspective, at least more nuanced than my colleague here from Zimbabwe. Southern Bank Group has had a relationship with ICBC dating back over 20 years now. In fact, I would hazard the guess that it's still the single largest outward investment in the African continent by a Chinese corporate. So it's a long-lasting relationship. It's gone through lots of changes of leadership. It certainly hasn't been a consistency, but it was born out of very clear mutual benefit. So each side was clear what it is that the interests that were being served by this relationship, and so it's predicated on solid ground. Together with ICBC, we have collaborated over the years in supporting trade between China and African countries, quite a few African countries, what we refer to as the China Africa Trade Corridor, and we are today the leading financier and supporter of all types of financial services that are required to make that thrive and prosper. So that's been a really, really good collaboration that's lasted years, and I believe that with the free trade agreement, that's going to become even more important because all of the kinds of infrastructural developments and other development in Africa will require massive support from big balance sheets. So that is the good part, but you did ask some searching questions in your opening remarks that it certainly hasn't been uniformly good. Part of the difficulty that Chinese companies have experienced, for example, in coming into South Africa has been in the early days, at least the notion of inferior quality. South Africa has always had very strong relationships with Europe in the first instance and the US secondarily, and so you get everybody coming to bid for business and there has been, to be fair, not so today, so it has evolved. So the issue of inferior quality definitely has bedeviled the relationship between South Africa and China to just single out one country, but I think there was a time on the continent where there started to be noises, particularly from the EU, of a transactional client contracting type relationship which is not what was sought because in thinking about how Africa was to develop and grow what the continent was seeking was a partner. And so there was a, if you look at the pattern of trade, that is a huge part that actually is contracts and those contracts are not free. So you fast forward and you look at some of the debt weaknesses around the African continent, some have defaulted like Zambia, Ghana, that you're overloading weak governments with excessive debt, with not such cheap debt, although I have to say Chinese debt has been largely concessional in nature. So there's definitely been issues of a sensitive nature that have not made this relationship all plain sailing, which would be unusual. You got big, big positive factors to play for but they're also quite negative ones. By and large, I would say on balance, the view today of the average African and I'll quote a survey that has just been released, the average view on the street is quite positive. It's the first time that I have seen a survey of that size. It was a multiple thousand in the sample where the view for most Africans of China is positive. In fact, more positive than the US. So something is changing and in my mind, it's because this ratio is evolving and touching, having multiple touch points that people can see for themselves are positive net net for the country, more so for some countries than others. And then just finally on this, just as Africa is changing, looking for different things in its future, putting together this free, the continental free trade area to try and accelerate growth, we also recognize that China itself is changing. So whilst in the past, it was fine to go get cobalt out of DRC, throw it in the sea, send it to China for processing, there's now this bigger push for beneficiation on the one side. There's also an appreciation of the fact that structurally China is changing to a more consumer-led economy rather than just an investment-led. So we were essentially exporting commodities into the real estate development because that's where it was making the steel, it was making all of the construction materials. As China becomes a far more consumer-facing economy, the role of Africa in a two-way stream becomes a little bit more difficult to define. Hence, it's far more important for African countries today to talk much more intensively with Chinese manufacturers to come and manufacture in Africa and therefore attract that particular cohort because of the free trade area creating much larger markets instead of 54 fragmented, disparate markets where you have to learn totally different regulatory frameworks for these. You now hopefully have a somewhat more harmonized area where in African country, in one country, you can have a Chinese manufacturer that has access to 2 billion plus population in the next 20 to 30 years. So I see the relationship between China and Africa changing quite significantly over the next 10 to 15 years from what we had all become accustomed to, which was extract raw materials, build airports, et cetera, into something somewhat more sophisticated and somewhat more intertwined than it is today. Then very quickly, regarding lending from China to Africa, there's so much talk and reports about debt burden, whether intentional or as a result of the investments. Earlier, I only touched upon the lending rates of Chinese banks towards African infrastructure projects that might be higher than some national landings from other countries but as far as we understood, it's still lower than much of the commercial banks and some of the rates are concessionary as you have mentioned. So do you see that the debt burden resulting from the BRI or Chinese lending, first of all, do you think it's intentional and if not, what do you see as a potential solution to them? Well, look, there's no question that the debt burden has not been helped by all of us. Or whether or not there's a geopolitical flavor to the Chinese investments, strains attached, for example, those are the common rhetoric. Well, I think when what is true is that African governments need to be crystal clear about their own development needs, right? So if the government of Zambia did not need a bridge or an airport, then there was no reason for them to agree to build the bridge or the airport. The fact that a Chinese manufacturer needed that to export their goods is a different story. So if we get to a place where we say, oh, now we got all this infrastructure, we don't really need it for ourselves, we need it for the Chinese to get goods out, oh well, sorry for you, you ought to have been much, much clearer right from the start. So there is noise in the air conditioning, I don't think it's loud. I think that the infrastructure that's been built has by and large been needed by countries, whether countries like Zimbabwe did two airports is debatable, but essentially I think by and large that has been needed. Secondly, it's true that where it is an SOE that is lending to the African country that has typically been concessional funding. Where it has been a commercial bank, I don't believe that that is uniformly true, but that is true for the Western banks, commercial banks also lend at commercial rates, no difference. So that's not, I think, where the divergence happens. The divergence happens when there's trouble. So there is a well-established resolution framework that was established in the Paris Agreement many, many years ago by the multi-lateral institutions. When the country defaults, here's how we deal with debt restructurings. China doesn't go with that. China has not signed up to that. So you've seen this play out in Zambia where the one side that is governed by the multi-lateral frameworks was going in one direction, the Chinese lenders going in another direction and never the two could meet for three years. And Zambia has been in no man's land for three years. This is frightening to people. So anybody who today in Africa carries or sovereign it carries a bilateral arrangement with China on the one side and a multi-lateral one with IMF, et cetera, must be thinking if this happened to us, we instig, right? So it is, I think Africa caught in the middle here is neither China's fault, no, the other one's fault. It just is, it again drives home this issue of the areas in the world where this collaboration, cooperation is so far more important, but Africa doesn't have the power to change that, China does. And China chose not to use their power to help Zambia out for three years, right? So because I mean the multi-laterals were never gonna move. So I don't think it has played out in Ghana so much because Ghana didn't have the same dynamic. So that is more, I think, where I was trying to get to the part of the debt, not that China was overburdening Africa necessarily. All right, thank you for those clarifications. Ricard, let me turn to you. So you're in logistics business. You have a lot of in-person experiences on the ground regarding how the Chinese initiatives are transforming the local markets. Can you talk to us a little bit about China-Africa relations from your own perspective, from your business perspective? Okay, thanks, Wang, and good morning to everyone. I'm a bit overwhelmed being here with these experts, but I'm already very intrigued of listening and learning from you guys. So this is seen from my humble side and from what we do in our company. What I can say, we are very proud to be the biggest humanitarian transportation supplier for UNICEF and World Health Organization. World Food Program and the Peacekeeping Forces. And as the lady said in the sitting earlier, Africa is not one country. It's 54, and it's massively different with different needs and different outlooks as it is. But it's a growing area. And for us, it's super important that the trade between China and the African continent develop and prosper. Not only for imports of vaccines and equipment for manufacturing, but also for exports and not the traditional, only the raw materials, but allowing and helping customers that we care cargo for to deliver it safely to landlock areas or where maybe the airports are not fully delivered in a safe manner without being tempered to pay someone off because that's, we have to say, there are areas in Africa, there are areas in Europe as well as well in South America that have a bit of an issue with corruption. So you just have to be mindful and be professional in the approaches. But I'm very thrilled that I have no political issues of what people may be talking about. I just see this as a natural course of development. And it will not only help the African continent, but it will help the entire world to increase and erase poverty and give good education and opportunities to the youngest and fastest growing continent of the world. So I'm, again, very humbled to be here and see it from our perspective. But we are, since a few years, operating ourselves in seven, eight countries. Latest addition was Kenya and we will be in more countries coming up. And again, I'm talking from the transport industries aside and many of our friendly competitors has left due to certain issues while others are going in with open eyes seeing it from an entrepreneurial side as well. Earlier on, we talked about some of the challenges over there, for example, cyber crimes that you mentioned. But of course, Africa, like you said, is the youngest continent in the world with a huge potential, with this dynamic youth population and progressive policies in many parts of Africa. How do you make sense of these competing dynamics? Yeah, good question. I mean, over the days here, which has been fantastic. There has been a lot of talks of AI and data exchange. I don't think it's only related to the countries. It's related to small companies being attacked by cyber crime. So we need to help educated on how to deal with these matters because if it strikes one company or one country, it will impact so many. So once there's exchange of data and you have a lot of data, there are temptations, of course, and educate people having the resources to fight the cyber crime with cybersecurity. I think that's vital for everyone. It's too easy to click on something and that can have a massive impact for the organizations and countries as such. Yeah, exactly. Let me turn to you, Professor Wang. You wrote extensively about China Africa. I lost count. How many articles you sent me over WeChat about China Africa issues? Over Africa. Over the year, you've been to Africa. What, to over a dozen countries now? I haven't been to Africa. My apologies. Would love to. Hopefully later this year for BRICS. So talk to us about how do you see as, of course, the complementarities between China and Africa? As China is aging, of course, and Africa being the youngest continent, and also the Chinese economy is transforming into hopefully a consumer consumption-led and consumption-driven economy, whereas Africa is also trying to move up the value chain. How do you see these occurrences? Thank you. Firstly, I'm actually not just focused on Africa. I'm more focused on Europe. I'm the Yominetier Professor, the European Union. But why I focused on Europe in recent decades because of the Belro Initiative, and also I think I'm an international relations scholar, you need to focus on developing countries, developing continent, the most dynamic and hope that by 2030, 42% of the use will be Africans. So this is hope. This is the future. See, it's not the new continent. Actually, the human beings, originally in Lucy, you know, years ago, it's from Ethiopia. And her last theory, yeah. Okay, also, we are Chinese, we're very humble. We learn a lot from Europe. How to work better in Africa. The comparative advantage of China compared to Europe, I think, three things. First, first visit trip of the Foreign Minister of China every year in the past 17 years is to Africa. China always say, we are the developing country. So the people, veto power in United Nations Security Council, this is not for China. This is for developing countries. And Africa is, all of the African 55, they are developing countries. So that's, I think, political foundations are very strong. So we've used our relations with Africa, it's South-South, it's brotherhood. This is a community of shared futures, naturally. Second, I think China modernization is very attractive to the Africans because we are very fresh of modernization, urbanization, agriculture, all of this. Maybe Europeans, Americans, maybe 100 years ago, is not adapt to the local condition of Africa. So China actually is the transform, the high standard of the West to match the Africans' condition. Because we know how to do this, 40 years ago, China's per capita GDP is only one-third of the South Sahara for Africans' countries, even less. But now, China is very advanced. So it's very attractive to Africa. So we can share some experience, but we have never saw a model. I think that's very important. Certainly, as you mentioned, it's very complementary. Before, we are very complementary with the West. They are advanced economy. But now the views of China are the starting competitor. But the views of Africa is a hope. But I think your age in society, age in society, and also industrialization, digitalization, Africa's young dynamic, we have many, many corporations. Projects in Africa, millions of Chinese live there. Maybe can you share with us some of your experiences of visiting the African countries and how you see that the Chinese cooperation are perhaps transforming the employment, the markets, and also the livelihoods there? Well, many love stories. One time, when I visit Kenya, there's a railway, you know, the Mombasa to Nairobi. I saw there's a slogan is, let the Zedra can cross the tomb without need to co-tow. So that's a protected environment. Does the zebra cross the channel without co-tow? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not just human rights. Animal rights are also very important. That's the type of thing. We learned how to do that. And we have the better experience in other places. So we are channel learning very fast. That's the first story. Second story to South Africa. When I visit Mandela's hometown, they say it's very attractive to me. It's called Ubuntu says, I am because we are. Okay, that's the committee for share future. You can, you know, in English, I always co-tow. But I is more in Chinese culture. I can be I only through you. We can be other. We are not I. So I think I learned a lot from African spirit and the culture. And another story is in Kenya. Again, Kenya is without the plastic. It's good. Even more attacking than Germany and Europe. But the problem is they don't have this. And then if you eat the restaurants, some food, and remain, and then you cannot back and take home. And then cause some problems, even some various. So China's approach is to say, yes, high standard. But you need to transfer the high standard to match the local condition. So China is the bridge to connect the West and Africa. I think it's very important to understand the particular attraction of African countries towards China. It is the fact that in our lifetime, we have seen a country lift that many people out of poverty. That we had not seen because clearly Europe took centuries to get to the same point. This is an experiment that has never been done in history. The only thing is, as more and more African governments sent many delegations to China to study the model, to see how it could be replicated, we simply couldn't replicate it. Because there were just certain dynamics of Chinese society, how the government is made up, how the people's culture is that did not match into Africa. So what you're saying about you could take it to an African level is true but up to a point. I think the Africans have to do the rest because there are very, very big cultural differences that make what happened in China quite difficult to replicate in other places. That's what I think very important. Because I'm the teacher. I just came back from Nissan, the hometown of Confucius. Confucius is actually very famously. Three people walk there, one be my teacher. So notice, three people walk there, I be their teacher. No, we asked the Africans in other countries can share some experience of China but we never sell our model to them. You need to be your home, your own style. We have some experience to share but not to copy. So the Europeans made many mistakes. You always sell to your model. No political power, by example, all these things. Okay, let me interrupt there. It's a very blunt statement. Good, you're not even in Europe. Ricardo, you're a non-politician. You're not a diplomat. You're not even a policymaker but, hey, you're representing Europe here? By looking around? You're a response. Not colonized. Also true. Your response. No, I mean, a response to exactly, what question? What he said about the Europeans imposing their models on others where China doesn't necessarily. Yeah, that's sadly, again, I'm not a politician but people have perception, a perception of Mali. They have perception about China. They have perception about everything. But it's all, I mean, if you're adult and you say it, it's our goddamn responsibility to help people in situations where they need to emerge and develop. So whether that is educational, whether that is in, to help deliver logistic solutions from hand to mouth. We all need to fight that. And in Europe, I mean, they are too wealthy in some way but they also become a bit too lazy. I mean, certain things, they push forward and for example, on the environmental to ship down to Africa and maybe for doing some recycling to improve their own profile. That's not right. You need to deal with those issues back in Europe as well. So not to explore, not to exploit but to explore the African continent and the people there. So for me, I'm a good human and I have that approach to things and I see it openly. Fair enough. I think we're, it's a good representation today. We have representatives from China, Europe and the African continent, which is a good mix. Minister Mahona, let me turn to you again. I mean, this is also a fantastic opportunity, I think, through the World Economic Forum to really educate us, the Chinese and people from the rest of the world, more about Africa because these days you don't hear as much about Africa from mainstream international media whom I focus on international geopolitical hotspots or the war or scandals of their domestic politics. But really, what is Africa is a myth. So can you maybe talk about things that you think is important to your country? For example, urbanization. I know more people are moving into the cities at an unprecedented rate in Africa, the youth population and digitalization. What do you think are the important trends for the world to know about your country and the continent? I thank you so much, brother Wang and just to start by inviting you to Africa and in particular to Zimbabwe. I'd love to take my crew, like my photographer is there, my producer there. Yes, and to say, you are very right, it's about a myth of Africa. But in the first place, we need to blame ourselves as Africa. He heard from my sister that we are talking about 54, 55 countries and we are fragmented in terms of the approach. Just to cite a good example, if you want to fly to Senegal, my sister's country, seated there, you need to go out of Africa to go back to Africa. So the connectivity now issues. So at times it comes to back to us as a continent so that the moment we are fragmented, then we are taken advantage of. And I'm happy to say such kind of a fora would then mitigate such or allay such fears that what sort of a continent is this? But I want to say, yes, Africa is a beautiful continent and we also want to thank the resources that I alluded to earlier on that we have got everything in Africa. So at the end of the day, it's also very important to say, how then do we move a step forward in trying to mitigate and also address such fears and to say to the outside world, come to Africa. But you find I can just cite a good example. There is cricket happening as we speak in Zimbabwe for world qualifiers, but it's not being broadcast. So it shows that like you alluded to, world qualifiers for cricket. Yes, there are about 10 countries there and also America is included. I'm just citing a good example. But you find that it's not in the public domain. So at times it's the packaging of what is happening in Africa that is not within the purview of the generality. So at the end of the day, we are saying, these are some of the issues that we need also to make sure we address. And we are saying is the digital era that we are in. And you talked about the demographics in terms of the youth. We is like in Zimbabwe, we are talking about 75, 65 to 70% being the youth. So we've got the energy to drive. And you find that the other myth you'll be talking of ministers, they are maybe old of advanced age, but I'm seated here. And which is also a myth. If you then talk of ministers coming from Africa, but we are very happy to have such a forum where we can articulate issues, where we can say to the global world, come to Africa and demystify what you hear. And a number of people, when they visit African countries, they are mesmerized. Whatever they see there, again it's what they hear is totally different. So I think it also calls for a holistic approach as a continent so that we need to unite and also address some of the concerns from a holistic perspective. Can you name two or three things that you think people from the outside world might be mesmerized by, as you said, by Zimbabwe? The endowments, we are talking of close to seven minerals that we can exploit just for Zimbabwe. And you are talking of the lithium, the one that is very topical here. The electric vehicles that we're talking about. And yesterday we managed to visit one of the factories here where they are producing about 400 to 65 per day units. But they need the resources. And you find that we are in the top six within the world when it comes to the production of lithium. But we are saying lithium is moving as raw as it is without validating it. Which is something that if you evaluate per ton, you can get close to 700,000 per ton. But if you just export it as raw, you're getting $600 per ton is an example. So you see that these are such kind of issues that we need to address to say yes, in terms of infrastructure, the opportunities, we have the rail, we have the water bodies, and which are very magnificent. And if you talk of Zimbabwe, we break off close to 10,000 water bodies. So imagine such kind of investment that you can then tap into the maritime issues. So we are saying even the skies, open skies policy, and we ride on a policy of any given nation. And in particular in Zimbabwe, we say we are framed to all and an enemy to nanny. But you find in other jurisdictions we are impeded where we have got illegal sanctions imposed on us. So at times we then tend to side and move together with those who would be on our side. Thank you very much. All right, sure, sure. Thanks for these clarifications. Madam Chairperson, let me turn to you. China had this huge massive infrastructure program called the BRI, about the road initiative. And Africa is aggressively pursuing this free trade area initiative. How do you see the synergy between the two going forward? Yeah. So clearly if you remember what I said a little bit earlier about the next growth vector in the continent being the combination of consumer markets. So today if you want to tap into the consumer space you're talking about going to 54, 55 different markets. How many countries are there? I thought it was 54. I heard you say 55, I'm staying with my 54. So 55, okay, so 55 countries. So what the free trade area will do then is to introduce tariff free movement of goods between these 55 countries. So whilst we were looking for technology in manufacturing that was far more commodities based in the recent past, what this opens up is consumer facing products. Now you marry that with this population is so-called demographic dividend in Africa where in the next 10, 20 years you're going to be seeing an Africa that is far more educated, that is far more urbanized, that is far more digitally savvy just by from this youth factor than before. You then take number three, the fact that actually it's a very useful lens to think of African countries as not just put this country lens aside and think about cities. That your fastest growing, top 10 fastest growing cities in the next 10, 20 years are going to be in Africa. You then overlay that with Belt and Road which presumably would have already put in place the infrastructure for those consumer markets to be reachable by whoever comes into it. So I think that it's not just two factors coming together but a multiplicity of factors that make it in my mind a compelling proposition for Chinese manufacturers to seriously consider Africa as an expansion node for some of the things that they have done and done so successfully here. So if Europe and the US are anything to go by as countries get richer and people demand higher wages and we've seen it here, right? People start to demand higher wages and therefore what used to be a competitive factor for China which was a dirt cheap labor rate starts to disappear out of the horizon. Where are you going to go? All right, you're going to Vietnam, you're going to Philippines but Africa is a real realistic prospect for some of the low value edition manufacturing initially. Now where do you see this today? You see it in Ethiopia. You see a lot more of Chinese manufacturers moving to Ethiopia doing simple things initially but over time even that will increase. So I think that just one was the underpinning was the extraction of minerals. The next one was Belt and Road in the infrastructure development. The next one becomes this free trade area so that you get more integration. On top of that you overlay the transfer of technology and the low-scale manufacturing and over time more and more sophisticated manufacturing. So it's a story that has got quite long legs and we'll be here in 2030 as time looking back saying actually we were naive, it happened in a much bigger scale than I'm saying now and so you look at all of that and then just overlay climate change. Climate change is an excellent, excellent example of a sector that A has scales, it's got size. Two, China has significant IP and significant technology in the area. Africa has significant endowment in the area, not only in terms of raw material but in terms of natural sunlight, wind, et cetera and where the two combine in the kinds of sort of virtuous circle that I'm trying to get to. So I think this is the one thing that for me is really, really an optimistic and I think exciting prospect for joint China, Africa, mutually transformative initiatives. Yeah, mutually, I love this, or mutually transformative, that is a very, it's an all-inclusive topic, sure. Which areas of manufacturing do you say fastest growing on the African continent? Is that fashion, textile, so? Well, for now it's been smartphones. Well, smartphones, yeah, yeah, of course. And today, 64% of smartphones used in the African continent come from China. And for Africa, that is so because we skipped completely from the landline phase. We had maybe four, five percent penetration of landlines. We went straight into mobile. Number one, number two, you have a disproportionate proportion of Africans who are unbent. So payments and movement of money happens on a phone. Mobile banking is highest penetration on planet Earth, is in Africa. So if you think about products and services that support that ecosystem, you will see those trials and actually proliferate in the African continent. Oh, interesting, thank you. I'm reminded of the Chinese experience, whereby I used to live in the United States for eight years, Washington, D.C., and I lost count on how many credit cards that opened. It was every day in your mailbox there's an offer. It says opening bonus this, opening bonus that. And on average, I learned that average American families with four or five people have an average credit card number of 13, 14 credit cards. But right back in China, I think we skipped the credit card phase, whereby we leapfrogged into mobile payments, whereby back in China, there's a reverse cultural shock. We have to get my WeChat pay and Alipay ready. It's a cashless society in China. So I'm reminded of that. But in America, I heard these days, the credit card is also phasing out or at least mobile payment is becoming much of an option here. I'm reminded by the organizer that we have about 10, 15 minutes left. I would like to open it up for questions, really. If any of you have a question, please identify yourself and ask. Okay, sorry, that gentleman and then that lady, yeah. Hello everyone, thank you for the presentation. My name is James Waijiele from Ghana. Okay, so it is true that Africa is moving towards China. But we see that most of the concessionary loans from China is often heard with natural resources. For instance, the cyanohydro loan to Ghana has been held with diamond reserve in the forest. So society organizations and community people have spoken against this, organized demonstrations and have often petitioned international organizations against the destruction of forest. Coupled with this is the issue of corruption and low quality of infrastructure. My question is, is this not likely going to lead to frictions between China and the local people at least? And the second question is, is this not new colonization in disguise? Thank you. Who would like to address the question to? Professor. I suppose to represent the 1.4 billion Chinese issue, sorry to say that. Okay, I have that duty of course to address you. Firstly, you say Africa goes to China. Africa go to the future. China work together with Africa towards the future. I think that's the, but Zimbabwe, you I mentioned in 2003, Zimbabwe is the pioneer. Oh, sorry, yeah. Zimbabwe is the first country actually in Africa. 2003 have the policy of the look to the east of China, 2003. So actually pioneer as a reason, you know, benefit a lot. Okay, not lose to China is one to share some experience with China. It's not getting modernization. It's not just the China's islands. No, never. Okay, that's to the future, the better future. Now the five economic growth, fast growth, they are share some experience with China. Even the training in Ethiopia in South Africa, they have their training in China. We have the central party school to training the officials. That's very important. Not just the politicians look and say back and then practice in the grass roads. So that's the some stories. But the colonization. Okay, China as a world factory, before import a lot of the oil and resources, materials to China and then made and then sells to Europe, to the for the world. So China polluted, China, for that kind of model change. So today we say, the synodities of the strategy of the Bellry initiative with the 2063 of the African Union, is the so-called the Meding Africa with China for the world. It's not just Meding China. So that's really, you mentioned about Ethiopia, the five direct flights to China now with the regional hub of the air transportation really. So the hope then Africa to modernize to be the hub. It's not just a traditional model. The old model, the Washington consensus, that model, finished. Back to the history. Why China do this? Of course we should learn the lessons to pollute the local and it's not good. The problem is for Africa. You need this, you need that. But they want to share some experience with China. Say, build the road if you want to get rich. Build the motor road if you want to get rich quickly. But where's the money comes from? Usually there are two kinds of models. One is the special leasing rise. It's like some Africans land, these two China's commercial limited and then invest a lot for that because you need to make money, the commercial driven. Another, if you have not the special leasing rise, sometimes you have the resources and then give Chinese companies to deploy and then earn the money and invest in infrastructure. So this China also did it before. We polluted, we destroyed the forest. And unfortunately, so China at the beginning, yes, did this, but now we learn from this. Now in South Africa there's one to learn some, China's so-called the North Shetha Belt Programme. What is that? What is that? North. Sanbei, Fanghu Lin. Sanbei, Fanghu Lin. The three North Shetha Programme. Shelter Programme. That is protecting the environment. Because of the desert and the expansion. So how China solved this problem to let the desert to be there planned. So that kind of story is now so-called the Green Great War in South Africa. Not just South Africa, all South Africa. So that kind of story is changing. Okay then. I hope it's okay, I have a quick comment and then a question that's completely different. The comments is about Europe exporting its models, which of course is history too. But I am a professor, sorry my name is Joanna Bryson, professor of Ethics and Technology at the Herdy School in Germany. And part of what happened was in fact during George Bush administration that scientists were doing things that were no longer considered legal and ethical in Europe. And so they did them in other countries instead. So sometimes when we're seen as exporting our models, it is now that we are forced, if we say something is ethical, that it's ethical worldwide, that we aren't allowed to undermine our own morals by moving abroad. And so I can see this sounds like enforcement because they say, oh we have to follow these laws. But it really is trying to stop being colonial sometimes. I know there's also bad things, but sometimes it really is us trying to be better than we have been. The question, this is directed to the chairman. I, you mentioned climate change and I was excited because I'm terrified. And you talked about the financial opportunities, but I hope that when you're talking about an African union really being a free trade, what about a free movement? Because there will be climate migration too, right? So I'm wondering if a lot of the numbers and optimism I've heard is as if nobody is going to move. Are all these city growth and all this, is this reflecting the climate change reality of the next 10 years? Good, good, good question. And as you come from Europe, you will well and truly appreciate that the free movement of people is holy grail. It is the final kind of nail in the coffin. And in my mind, I cannot be quoted on this because it's just what I read from the tea leaves. The reason the free trade area has made so little progress is exactly that, that people, there are some governments within Africa who are absolutely terrified of the free movement of people. Underlying that are some real concerns. South Africa today sits with an unemployment rate amongst the youth of over 50%. And so you start to say, well we can't employ our own people, how can we net net be importers of others? And at the moment, South Africa actually is a huge importer of other Africans coming from elsewhere. And we haven't been as discriminating as say the US has been in, you're gonna get advanced skills, visas easily, but not unskilled. We're trying to solve that. So I think the issue of free movement has been bedeviled by employment patterns around the continent. However, climate change will mandate it. There is no way that you're going to be able to rebuild some parts of the continent that have been plagued by extreme weather events in a continent that did not have very resilient building structures and codes. You saw this in Malawi. I mean, the parts of Malawi are completely destroyed. How are you gonna rebuild that? So I do think that the humanitarian side of migration will have an irrespective of free trade or anything else just because climate change is making it impossible not to do so. And if you look where we've seen the most severe climate impact in the recent term, they've all been, well, not all, mostly on the East Coast, Mozambique being one, Madagascar very much affected, Malawi this last time, absolutely clobbered, Durban to some degree. So I think that whether we like it or not, that that's gonna happen. The one that will happen after long after I'm dead is the free trade of movement because of free trade. Great. I think do we have time for one more question? Yes? All right, please. My question is to Mr. Minister and for your country, which sector is most needed to be invested in infrastructure, energy or mining? Thank you. Thank you so much, Madam. And I'm happy to say it's broad. The choice is yours. We've got the rail, we've got the roads, like I indicated the water bodies and even the skies. So we're open to business. And once again to those who are seated here and beyond to say we've got a mantra that we are running with that Zimbabwe is open for business. So there are vast opportunities that you can tap into. So feel free, I'm the Minister of Infrastructure, we can engage. And if you've got a particular sector that you want, we can start working on it right now. Thank you. Get this WeChat after this session. All right, so finally I want to take this opportunity to really thank all our panelists for traveling all the way to Tianjin, China. I hope that you have had a great time as I have had, has been a great work economic forum session. Thank you for this very lively discussion and debate. I think it's fair to say that we all walk away better informed about the nuance of this relationship and about Africa. We don't necessarily all the time see eye to eye with each other on all the issues. But I think in China we say that with more debate the truth becomes clearer. And I hope this session achieves just that. Thank you all once again and thank our audience for being here and our viewers watching this live streaming. Thank you very much.