 Well, welcome to Monday Morning. This is Think Tech. I'm Jay Fiedel. You know, lawyers are very important in Hawaii. Real estate lawyers are very important. After all, we've had a real estate economy for a long time, and some say since statehood anyway, maybe longer. And it has done us well. It extends to all kinds of activities. And we have a very robust, sophisticated real estate industry, if you will. And some people are more at the center of that industry than others. We have one who has been at the center of that industry for 38 years, count them 38 years, Mitch Imanaka. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you, Jay. It's really a pleasure to be here with you. He's the managing partner of Imanaka Asato, and he has been in real estate. I don't do the math, but I guess that means 1979, when he started doing real estate. And he's been consistent on that, you know? In a small town industry like this, legal industry, you find people tend to be generalists sometimes, and hard for them to stay on a path of being an expert. But he has become, he was early an expert and stayed an expert all these years, never been distracted. So tell us briefly about your career in these 38, 38 years. And you have roughly two minutes. Okay. I think I can do that in two minutes. I graduated from Georgetown Law School and I came back to Hawaii because I knew I wanted to practice here. So I started with a small law firm called Carl Smith and Dwyer way back then. And Kurt Carl Smith was a real gentleman. He was Merrill's son and wanted to forge his own path, which he did. So I joined that firm back in 1979, my first job, and stayed there for till now, really. It's a continuation of that same practice. Kurt and Jack, although having a small firm with just six people, had really good clients. And I learned a hell of a lot from both those gentlemen through the years. So that's how I started the practice matured. Kurt left the practice and we continued real estate practice to this day. And your subspecialty, if I can, seems to be around condo development and development in general, real estate, substantial transactions as a specialty. We do. We've been very privileged to work on a number of very high-profile matters through the years. But we focus on condominium development. We do all of the paperwork to make that happen. We also focus on timeshare. Back in 1980, we drafted the first bill with Charlie Pierre in timeshare. And we continue that practice today. So we represent a lot of folks in the hospitality business as well. As I said, in the center of the real estate industry and real estate development in the state, which is an important part of post-statehood economy. So recently, your firm now, how long has it been in existence? It's been so named. Well, it's been so named since 2012. You know, we had Richard Asado, who's been with me for 25 years, come on board as a partner and we changed the name of the firm. So you're rebranding. You're increasing. We are. It's an exciting time, you know. What is it like? It's great. You know, we have a bunch of new folks in the firm and, excuse me, excuse my voice. You know, it's an exciting time. It's always nice to have new blood and fresh perspectives in there. And so we have a bunch of new lawyers that are very well-versed, but also very involved in the business aspects of the law firm and said, hey, why don't we get something new started? Why don't we take a fresh look? Why don't we take a fresh approach? And so we rebranded the firm and we have a new website that you're all welcome to visit. Sure. What's the name? Ibanaka Asado. Funny name. Not very creative, but it's basically us. So it's an exciting time. We had an anthology help us with that and their true professionals. And I think that really comes out on the site and it's done very nicely. Yeah, it's done. I looked at it in preparation for the show. I saw you have, what, 10 or 12 lawyers now. Something like that. Two partners, two partner to associate. You know, it's, gee, that's a good question. I would say two to one. Two to one. Yeah, two to one. Two partners to one associate or two associates? No, two partners. And it's so like, as an example, like two associates for each partner. Yeah. Oh, okay, okay. Well, that's good. I mean, you need a little pyramid there. Sure, sure, sure. You know, to distribute the work. So I had the impression from what you said a minute ago that you had a new kind of democracy going on in this term. Tell us how you manage it. Well, it's a friendly democracy where we seek input from all the lawyers on where we want to go. And we're very sensitive. We work together. We're just a close knit bunch of people that come to work today. It's sort of a working family, if you will. And it's not just the lawyers. We have great paralegal staff. We have great legal secretaries. My secretary has been with me now for almost 38 years. Sandra? No, actually, it's Janice Tsukimura, who, by the way, fired me about five years ago. And that's another story. But, you know, one day she came in and said, I can't do all this anymore. I said, no, no, you have to. Another year goes by and she said, well, you know what? Then I'm leaving. And so I said, well, what do you want to do? Okay, so that's a kind of family. You're a real negotiator, actually. And she's been great, you know, and she's a very centered person that keeps everybody. She actually is able to train some of our younger lawyers, as you might imagine. Great, great, great. So the rebranding. I mean, I'm really interested in that because we live in a time of rebranding. And law firms are really no exception. And there must have come a moment back a couple years ago when you decided that, gee, you didn't want to follow the conventional approach anymore. You wanted to have a new modern techie kind of image and you called Anthology and Mary. Fastenow. Yeah, Fastenow. She is great. I love Mary. And you said, I'm guessing now you said, gee, can you spiff us up here? We need to get current. We need to shine. We need to have people understand us right away. We're looking at our website and like it and coming around. And the website I saw when I looked at it was really very good because it gave you a profile as a firm, as individuals. I learned a lot about you in just a few minutes by perusing it. So anyway, tell us about the process of making that decision, executing it. Well, first of all, actually, although the website looks brand new and fresh, the concepts that are embedded in there are very old. You know, back in 1991, I thought our firm should take a different direction. And that we did. We brought on some people that we thought could help us move in that direction. And those themes kind of run throughout the website, but we're really embedded in our marketing materials way back then. So it's a refresh on the same themes, if you will. You know, the theme is that we're here to help people, not just to do the legal work, but to help them integrate into the community and probably understand the broader community within which we do business. It's basically, that's the theme. And we took it another level, and yet another level with this iteration of the website. So it's been a long journey. And it's always good to kind of give people something new to chew on. And that was the idea behind the rebranding. Not so much that we're moving in a new direction, but kind of to tell the story in a different way. Oh, here's a picture of the website now. Oh, great. Tell us how it works. What's the navigation on it? Well, this is about, as you can see, it's a skillful navigation of Hawaii's business landscape. And so what that means to us and hopefully to the readership is that we're in a position in our community to give counsel to people and how to integrate into our community. A lot of times we do have people from the outside coming into Hawaii wanting to do business. We feel that because we've been doing this for almost 40 years, we know a little bit about that. And so what we do for them goes beyond the law. It goes into counseling, you know, how best to approach different issues of the day, what's going on in our community, who do you talk to in our community to make a difference. How do you do that? Because as you know, Hawaii is a very different place to do business. And so that's the value that we have. I think that we have to offer a lot of people that maybe some other folks just don't have. Yeah, I saw the testimonials. You have some very powerful testimonials on the site. And they are testimonials by either A, substantial local companies in the real estate business that we have heard the names. And B, people we may not have heard so much about, but they're national names. The impression I have looking at it is you have a lot of large national clients, but more than that, you have clients who have had long-term relations with you, which is, to me, everything now in the law practice, because that's not the default. The default is, you know, in and out one shop stopping and then you're out again. And to hold on to a client for decades, that's really remarkable in our time. How do you do that? What's your magic sauce? Well, thank you. I'm not sure I'm ready to reveal all the magic today. But of course, you know, as a lawyer in private practice, you want to develop relationships with the people that you're helping. And we've been very fortunate in that. We've had, as you say, a lot of good clients. You develop a friendship, a trust relationship. They have to feel that you're giving them something every single day, that you are of value to them. And that's how you build trust. And we're very fortunate to have people that have been with us for 25, 30 years as a result. You know, one thing you said that I'd like to pursue is that, you know, you counsel with them. You advise them. I mean, it's the classic moment where a brand new client walks in, maybe a client from the mainland or Asia. He comes into your office and he says, Mitch, Mitch Sun, if necessary. Even Nakasan. And he says, you know, I don't know about doing business in Hawaii. I've heard a lot about, you know, government bureaucracy and delays. I've heard a lot about protest. I've heard a lot about permitting problems. I've heard a lot about, you know, the difficulty of dealing with labor and the difficulty of getting a project together. So before I come into this state, before I invest my money here, do my project here, I need you to tell me what it's like in Hawaii. What's the environment now and what can I expect? Can you give me one minute on that? Sure. Well, Hawaii is very different from all of the other 49 states, as we all know now. You know, it's about building relationships and it's about maintaining those relationships. It's about people and it's about building trust, the same way you would with a client. It's about reaching out into the broader community and making sure that they know who you are and that you're listening to them and that you appreciate them and that you respect them, that you respect the whole culture, that you respect all the people here. And once you're able to do that, I think it broadens the opportunity for communication and more effective communication redounds to the benefit of the client and that's all it's all about. I suppose I'm on the consortium that's building a telescope on Mauna Kea. We know one of those, right? Not my client, by the way. Okay, okay, good. And although you can dot the i's and cross the t's, that isn't necessarily going to rule the day. That's right. So what do you say to a client like that? What do you say about, you know, what we call an Indigenous local phenomenon? Phenomenon, you know, that may stand in the way, even if you do a perfect job on the paper. You know, again, it's about listening to the community and hearing them and trying to decipher what the path is going to be going forward. You're not always going to be successful because you're always going to have folks, you know, that do not want you to do something no matter what you say, no matter what you do and how you approach it. That's life. Are you reaching the vast majority of people? Do you have support for the project nonetheless? And if you do, how do you communicate that in an effective way so that your project can move forward? I think that's the approach that you have to take. It actually benefits all of us that you can bring in clients and investments and help them understand and help them manage their investments and their projects because that means Hawaii will have more business. And I'm sure you'll agree with me that the economy of the state needs foreign investment offshore investment and always. Yeah, well, we all know that Hawaii is a capital poor state. You know, we don't manufacture anything. We manufacture some things, but you know, not to a large degree where we're actually exporting capital. We need money to come in. So it's important to manage that process, to message it correctly, to make sure that we're sending the right messages to folks that are outside of Hawaii that want to come in while not losing what we have here. We don't want to sell our soul. The money that comes in has to be money that is going to be willing to work with the community to create a win-win situation where the business is here because they can make money, but they're also doing good for the community. And I think that's the best scenario. I always felt that, you know, Hawaii has a problem in understanding that it has the power. We collectively have the power not only to attract investment, but to manage the investment. And if we don't manage it, either we shoo them away because we're paranoid about them or what they plan to do, or we treat them as cargo cult where they're always right, you know, even if they're wrong. And the result is we don't have managed investments in a lot of areas. So lawyers play a role in all of that in managing them and managing them to do the right thing with us and sort of bringing it all together. And it's a value to the state. We're going to take one minute for a break, Mitch. That's Mitch Imanaka of Imanaka Sato talking about real estate law and branding, and we'll be right back after this break. Hi, this is Jane Sugimura. I'm the co-host for Kondo Insider. And we're on Think Tech Hawaii every Thursday at 3 o'clock. And we're here to talk about condominium living and issues that affect condominium residents and owners. And I hope you'll join us every week on Thursday. Aloha. Aloha. My name is John Wahee. And I used to be a part of all the things that you might be angry at. I served in government here and may have made decisions that affects you. So I want to invite you in. I want to invite you in to Talk Story with me and some very special guests every other Monday here at Talk Story with John Wahee. Come on in, join us, express your opinion, learn more about your estate, and then do something about it. Aloha. Yes, Life in the Law. Today, a study of the practice of Mitch Imanaka, the managing partner of Imanaka Asato. So, you know, you talked about bringing capital in from other places. And that I suppose means branding out to other places, doesn't it? I mean, how much do you put your brand out there in the nether? How much do you, you know, extend your availability, say, advertising what have you, social media what have you, to the world, locally and also outside? Well, we do our best to do that. And there are two thoughts there. Okay, first, I really feel that because we're so insular, we're so far away from all of these other places that have money, you actually have to physically go there. You have to physically go to these places, meet people, make sure they know who you are, press the flesh, and hopefully that translates into over years, decades sometimes, you know, them getting to know you. The internet has really leveled the playing field in terms of marketing. You can reach everyone across the globe. So that's not really an issue. The issue is maintaining that people relationship and making sure that they can relate to you as a person. You know, they want to make sure that they're working with someone who has integrity, who's going to be able to carry their interests in Hawaii. And that's very important. Something often overlooked, by the way. Yeah, yeah. As is the notion of responding and telephone calls and letters often overlooked. I gather from your website that you do respond. Absolutely. Yeah, really very important. It's a member of the public, I can say. What about Asia? Well, what about travel? You said travel. Do you travel to the mainland? Do you meet and greet and press the flesh there? What are the circumstances of those trips? The same thing with Asia. Sure. I try to do that at least six times a year. I used to do a lot more, but, you know, I'm getting older. We know all about that. So I don't do it as much. We have folks in the firm that do that a little bit more. And I have done that through trade groups, through trade organizations and through clients that, you know, we've been fortunate to represent over the years. So, you know, whether it's to DC or down to Florida or to California, mainly, you know, those are the places that generally go in the continental U.S. With regard to Asia, you know, I do sit, fortunately, on the board of the local subsidiary of a rather large Japanese insurance company. And that affords me the opportunity to relationship build, you know, with that particular community in Japan. So, and that continues to this day. Yeah. Guangxi, of course. And Guangxi also applies in the U.S., I gather, from what you say, in terms of developing clients. It's really the same notion. Maybe play it out a little different, but it's the same idea. Sure, absolutely. Yeah. That's relationship building. What about the Chinese? Now, that's slightly different kettle of fish. Are you visiting China? Are they visiting you? Are you doing work for them? Or, you know, they're interested in investments now. It sounds like they're coming to town. What can you tell us about that? I can't talk much about that right now. Okay. I got the message. Yeah. But, yes, we are working with a number of them, and we'll see. You know, there seems to be a capital flowing out of China at an accelerated rate. I'm not quite sure what the reasons are, although from what I read, you know, they're anxious about the exchange and where their yuan is going, and so we'll see what happens. It's an interesting time. It's a good place for them to come. It is a very good place. It's a safe place. I think Hawaii has traditionally, for real estate investors, been a very safe venue for capital. Although you may not make as much money here, you're certainly not going to lose any money. And I think that's very attractive to people right now. So, in that regard, I mean, as far as your contact is concerned, are the Chinese coming here to build big projects? We've seen some of that in the newspaper with multi-acreage, you know, to develop from the ground up. Or are they here to buy condos or develop condos? What is their primary drift these days? What do you expect is happening? That's a good question. And we'll see that play out over the next course of the next decade. But I do believe that they're interested in moving money out of the country and are looking for safe haven for that money. But, you know, they're also very entrepreneurial and see opportunity here, which is a good thing for us. You know, they think we're a place where they can experience a vibrant economy, where they can make some money, where if they invest something, they won't lose it. And that all bodes well for all of us. So, I think they're looking for almost everything, you know, not just, you know, maybe an existing building, but also to develop here. And I think that's a good sign for us. How do you reconcile, you know, the economic disparities we have in Hawaii? Lord knows, you know, some of those penthouses look right down on 10th City, and the disparity is so touching and, you know, tragic. So, if you're in real estate development and your client wants to spend Uku Bucks and build places, you know, they have condos for multi-millions of dollars, how do you reconcile that with the state economy and the social safety net and the fact of that disparity? Very good question. We have a lot of work to do in that particular area. Over the course of the last three decades, we've seen income disparity across the country, not just here in Hawaii. True. Okay. And we do need, and this is the number one priority I know for a lot of folks, we do need affordable housing here that's infused into the community at an accelerated rate, because there's a real need there. And it's a very hurtful need, because we see those in our families, you know, leaving to seek jobs elsewhere, to seek a better quality of life elsewhere, because the housing cost is so lower, so much lower in other jurisdictions. That's a big issue for our community. But in terms of, you know, all of these buildings coming up, we need those buildings, and a lot of folks don't think this way, but, you know, realistically, we need that infusion of capital building so that we can have the money to build other stuff. Okay. So as an example, down in Kakaako, there's what we call a 20% affordable requirement where someone who erects a tower has to basically build 20% of that, has to be affordable housing somewhere in the community. And I think that's a good policy. But I also think, you know, knowing about what the numbers look like, Jay, if we're going to be serious about building affordable housing in our community, I think to a large degree, it has to be subsidized in some fashion. And I think the numbers, you know, I'm on the NIOP board, and we took a hard look at this a couple of years ago now. It looks as if you need about 100, $125,000 a unit to be subsidized in order for- The amount of the subsidy. In order for a developer to step up and say, hey, I'll do that project. Otherwise, it's a very, very difficult process that you have to go through, which is very time-consuming and doesn't make a lot of sense for a lot of developers out there. So what I'm saying, I guess, is we need government to step up. They perhaps take a leadership role, perhaps put some money on the table, and hopefully the public needs to support this because the government won't do it if there's not widespread public support, as you know. And that's the way you do it. So it's a supply-demand thing. The more units you put out there, it'll help to stabilize the market. Absolutely. And I think we're seeing that in certain segments in the Alamoana area where the older inventory, the price points have stabilized because of the infusion of new product, whether it's high-end or mid-end type product. It's already had that impact. And I think if we continue down that road and build more, you'll have more opportunities for people to move up, and therefore they need to sell their unit at what price are they selling it? Probably a lower price. And I think all of those things combined can help us get to where we need to be. But it takes a focused effort. It takes teamwork. It takes leadership. And hopefully we can achieve that. And hopefully that will be the legacy of our generation. Yeah. People don't realize that government does not build housing. You don't want government to build housing. No. You want developers to build housing. Right. But you've got to make it pencil out for them. Right. And if it doesn't pencil out, you have to change the formulas somehow. Exactly. So it does pencil out. Exactly. I think it's a very good point. The other thing I wanted to ask before we get to finished here because we don't have that much time is we have a kind of sprawl going on, at least in Oahu, which is of some concern. Instead of having what Neelabakrambi used to talk about in a high-rise city center with the green belts and suburban low-rise, we seem to be sprawling everywhere. And I wonder your thoughts about that and what we can do to make Honolulu anyway a kind of more organized place, such as major cities in Canada and other places in the English Commonwealth like Australia and New Zealand, where there are belts, concentric belts around the center of the city and it all works out for everybody. Can we do that? How can we do that? I think we have done that to some degree. I mean, way back in the 60s, we passed a law, I think it's 62, the land use law here. And we said certain areas, we're going to have urban development, certain areas we're going to have agricultural development, et cetera, and or use. And so the urbanized areas in Hawaii, people don't realize it sometimes, I think, hovers around the 4% number. And so it's a very, very small percentage of our land. But you raise a good point because maybe the perception is that we have urban sprawl. We really don't because these areas have already been designated for urban use and fall within that 4% of all the land in Hawaii. What we do have though is an opportunity to preserve open space. And I think at least one of our candidates recently talked about going up rather than out. And I think in Hawaii we really should look at that as a solution because if we're able to build up and not out, we can preserve our open spaces. We can preserve our way of life on the ground, if you will. And it's interesting, you know, how we just had an editorial about, well, maybe we shouldn't build more than 400 feet. I think we should look at all opportunities to go out. Appropriate setbacks, I think, are key to preserving our livability in terms of our community. You know, people want to walk these days. I mean, you have a Fitbit, I don't know, but I know my wife does and she walks everywhere. And so it's about making our life on the ground a lot better by preserving that open space by going up. To go up, then you have open space and people have a place to go. Even in the urban setting, by the way, in Evo or, you know, yeah. You know, I'm so sorry because I wanted to reserve some time, you know, to talk about all your community service and all the organizations you belong to and to outreach you and your firm. But first of all, when I started to print that out this morning, my printer ran out of paper. So, and here we are and we're running out of time. But let me just say that Vincere Minaca is everywhere. He belongs and participates in so many community organizations. We don't have the time for that. Thank you, Mitch. Thanks for coming down. Thank you, Jay. It's been a pleasure.