 It's healthier to be fat and have muscle than it is to be skinny and not have muscle. Now I know this is a generalization, but it is true, generally speaking, to be fat with muscle than it is to be skinny with no muscle. Is this for Justin? Yeah. This feels so validated. Actually, whatever. Did you see this guy? Did you see his new Facebook profile? I saw it. I was going to think you posted it. I was going to crop it and be like, there goes Justin again putting his face on my body. I was surprised you didn't comment. I did. I actually screen shot it, cropped it, and then never got around to posting it, and then I heard you. Sorry, and I had another one of my asshole friends ask me if I was on trend, so I was like, wow. Thanks. That's a good compliment. Right. Well, you can't win. Trending hard, dude. Are you either fat or you're so buff that you must be doing lots of drugs. Trends hard, man. Every day. Trending hard. You're planning to trend hard, you guys. That's so funny. No, I actually really like this tip, right? And a couple of things, one, you see sometimes these power lifters that have these big bellies and people are like, oh, power lifters aren't healthy. Look at their big old beer guts that they have and stuff like that. And then you also have people that carry extra body fat on them, just genetically seem to have a higher body fat percentage, but then can do really athletic things. And so it's not as simple as like, oh, just because you look ripped or you looked fit that you're fit and healthy, you can actually carry a higher body fat percentage and still be much healthier than what we would call back in the days, the skinny fat person. Yeah. So, okay. So when I was doing research for the resistance training revolution, I was blown away by how protective muscle by itself was like they have studies on obese individuals who lost no weight during the study. All they did was gain a little bit of muscle and you saw significant improvements in things like insulin sensitivity because muscle so metabolically active, it tends to balance out hormones. It improves insulin sensitivity. It muscle is anti-inflammatory in the body. Now, yes, body fat itself by itself is also a risk factor, but muscle so protective that, and of course, we're not talking the extremes. Like you brought up the example of power lifters. So people are like, oh, the power lifters is that like, of course, there's extremes with sports. So like power lifters tend to be on the extreme end as well. Right. I'm talking generally speaking. If you had two and if you had two twins and one person had very little muscle but was also skinny, the other person had a lot of muscle but had higher than what would be considered normal body fat. The person will more muscle will probably be healthier. First of all, muscle is mobile. It improves mobility. It decreases inflammation, improves insulin sensitivity. Little muscle is very unhealthy on the body. It just is. It causes lots of problems. The most unhealthy population are people with little muscle and lots of body fat. That's when it gets real bad. So what's my point with this is working out, getting fit and getting strong, even if you don't get leaner, although that contributes to getting leaner, you have significantly improved your health just because you built some muscle. Well, this also coincides and goes right along with our recommended advice a lot of times in seeking muscle building as you're before even you're trying to lose weight. So you're trying to actually like physically change your composition by adding more muscle to your body. We just more protective, have all those qualities you had mentioned, but then long term is a better strategy on top of that for then getting leaner. Way better strategy. I mean, when you also go to, you're also not including the things that could adversely happen if you all of a sudden cut calories and boost activity. So, you know, it's crazy because I think I started doing that well before I fully understood the science behind it. I just, through practice, I just realized it. I was like, wow, that this seems to be a better strategy when I focus my clients on adding healthy foods, getting strong and lifting weights and not being concerned about the scale, even when they come in and say, Adam, I need to lose a hundred pounds. Yeah. So I think I just the same thing validates that. I did the same thing, but it was for different reasons. Um, so it's kind of like I stumbled upon it. I did it because when a client came to see me two or three days a week, I knew I could at least train them right. The diet part was always hard because I'm not around when you're eating, you know, seven days a week. So I always, I would always tackle the weight loss later. Now when I say, look, at least you're here now, I'm going to train you. Let's just focus on getting stronger. Let's get, let's build some discipline and consistency there, and then we can look at diet and little did I know that that was actually the best approach anyway, because of course more muscle speeds up the metabolism improves your hormone profile, improves insulin sensitivity. It makes the weight loss easier. It makes the fat loss easier. I should say so much more of a catalyst for all those other like beneficial effects, but mobility is a big one. People don't, don't understand this. Like especially as you age, muscle is what makes you mobile. It's what makes your body able to move. And as you get older, look, there's a, there's older. There's a lot of elderly people who are skinny and have terrible mobility because they have no strength and no balance. Their health is not good at all versus someone who's older who might be a little overweight. Of course, there's extremes here. So someone watching is like, well, yeah, if you're 500 pounds with muscle, that's not good. Like, okay, relax, everybody. I'm not talking about the extremes and speaking generally, but if you're, if you're, let's say 20 pounds overweight, but you have muscle and mobility, you can move your strong. Of course you're going to be healthier. By the way, the blood markers and the tests you'll get at the doctor will show this. If you take somebody and you get them just to build a little muscle, you'll see these improvements. Typically, more improvements with a little bit of muscle gain than you will with a little more fat loss. So it's just something that nobody talks about that needs to be discussed. Okay. So I'm super curious. We, you know, when we get in here, we have, I look up at the TV screen, I can see the notes that each of us have put up there for Doug. And a lot of times like, I'll read and see, you know, like, oh, okay, I know that's Justin or I know where that's coming from. Sal, a lot of times handles the partnerships and sponsors that we have. And so I'll see like a snippet and I'm like, oh, I know where Sal's going. Okay. You've got net as fat loss. Like I'm so, I'm so, I'm so intrigued by where you're going with this. We've talked about this before. There's this really weird paradoxical thing that they keep finding in studies. So they find that people that consume or use marijuana on a semi-regular basis. Consistently in the studies that they do have lower BMI, which is leaner, which is ironic. If you're a weed smoker, like I have been, and you get the munchies and stuff. That's why it's paradoxical. That's why it's so crazy. Like you would think that it would be the opposite. Anybody who's, and that's one of the ways that I actually mitigate, well, like weight gain or body fat is like I reduce my weed consumption at night or post-dinner because I know that that causes me to eat and munch. So, and I've, I'm familiar with a lot of these studies. I've always thought that's so weird. So, so people who are like, this is crazy. No, no, no. First of all, again, the studies are consistent on this. Animal studies show this. There's human studies that show this as well. It's paradoxical again, because everybody knows that weed or cannabis is supposed to make you eat more and be lazy and be lazy or want to move less. Like what the hell is going on? Eat onions and sit in the couch. This is how this is how interesting the, the, the data is pharmaceutical companies right now, right now, there are several pharmaceutical companies that have drugs in their pipeline, their development pipeline that are cannabinoid based. Okay. So cannabinoids are the class of molecules that THC falls under, CBD falls under, all the cannabinoids found in the hemp plant or the marijuana plant fall under. There are currently drugs, like I said, there's several pharmaceutical companies right now who are researching cannabinoid based drugs for weight loss and diabetes because they see the effects. Cannabinoids seem to, in many cases, improve insulin sensitivity and the CB1 receptor, which is one of the cannabinoid receptors. So there's two, two of them that we know of, the CB1 receptor affects metabolism and the data is showing that it may speed up metabolism. In other words, activating this receptor may actually teach your body to burn more calories. So, and again, pharmaceutical companies don't pursue something unless it's because, I mean, you know how much money it costs to take a drug from conception to market? It's like a billion dollars. They don't pursue just anything. They don't, they don't do that, but they are because it's really weird. So Ned and weight loss, obviously it's kind of tongue in cheek because Ned is a hemp oil product that's got full spectrum cannabinoids. The data is very clear on things like inflammation, euphoria, sleep. Those are things we know it works, but it is very interesting. And the reason why I'm bringing it up is we're probably going to see weight at some point in the future weight loss type products that are cannabinoid based because again, these studies keep coming out. So you said it's the CB1. CB1. So that's the main one they attribute it like most of the fat loss to. They think because it does affect metabolism and activating it seems to speed up the metabolism. But the insulin sensitivity one is a big one. I know when I invested years ago, this company doesn't exist anymore, it got bought up. But GW, I think we're called GW pharmaceuticals. They are the ones they had a drug that was fast tracked for a form of epilepsy. That's what got them known. Yeah. Draves syndrome, I think was called. This is when Charlotte's Web, that strain of high CBD cannabis became popular and it was growing in Colorado a lot of stuff. Yeah, I was going to ask because of like the ratios and all that, like have they figured out, you know, the pairings of that? Because there's also like CBC, CBN and there's other like variations. So THC has its own benefits, but it's the least, it's the one that's least likely to be used in medicine because of its psychotropic effects, right? So like, you know, you want to take something for inflammation, you don't want to be high all the time. I mean, maybe you do, but most people don't. But, you know, there's some benefits to the psychotropic effects. There could be maybe some therapeutic effects and stuff like that, but they want to find the ones that affect you that have subtle, you know, maybe just make you feel better, but really have effects on inflammation, insulin sensitivity, anti-cancer. They're anti-proliferative with cancer. Canabinoids have been shown. The first study I remember out of Spain showed that it was anti-cancer and brain cancer. They showed to be anti-cancer and liver cancer and other forms of cancer. So it's really interesting, but with weight and fat loss and insulin sensitivity, there's they're pursuing it. They're looking at it. And again, the data keeps coming out and it's weird because I remember when the first one came out, oh, something's wrong. Like this is this doesn't make sense. Like why are pot smokers have lower BMI than they did another one? Uh oh, it's showing up again. Animals study is showing it. This doesn't. That's why it's paradoxical because they totally anticipated them to stick them on. That's right. Now, I want to be clear. I don't I think we all think that the the science and the research around this is fascinating, fun to talk about. I don't think that you would recommend this as a as a fat burner, although it may come out this way. Right now, because more and more things now are moving in this direction and maybe it's not the best fat loss type of sub supplement, but we're starting to attach it to health benefits in general. Do you foresee this as like a, you know, potential multivitamin stack of like becoming more of a daily usage thing that somebody takes on a lower daily dose? I think it'll I don't know if it'll go that far to where they give it to everybody, but I think it'll be very commonly used because the endocannabinoid deficiency syndrome hasn't been identified, but it's been speculated that a lot of people aren't producing enough of their own natural endocannabinoids because of stress, because of gut issues, because of maybe toxins, toxins. And so when you produce less of your own endocannabinoids, well, the effects may be more inflammation, gut issues. You may have issues with sleep. You may have issues with anxiety and mood and so supplementing with like hemp oil, which isn't going to get you high. You'll notice it, by the way, if you supplement with if you take Ned, you'll feel it. You'll feel something, but you're not high. I don't like your smoke. Relax or calming. Yeah. He's like, wow, I kind of feel good and you can tell. It's not like a like, do I feel something like you can you can tell you feel something? I think a lot of people who have like kind of just just don't feel kind of good. They have inflammation. Their sleep is kind of crappy. Like this is it's it's effective for a lot of people. I have family members. OK, my dad, my mom. I have an aunt, my grandfather before he passed away. They were using Ned on a consistent basis. I get texts from my dad all the time. I'm running low, you know, and he always he always offers to buy it before some. He's not going to get my dad buy it. No, I give you some, but he used on a consistent basis. My dad's got, you know, he's got lots of arthritis and joint issues just from hard labor working since he was a child. All right. Today's giveaway is maps split. That's the program we're giving away here so you can win it. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop it. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications if you win. We'll let you know in the comment section. We're also running a sale right now. Maps starter. This is a beginner workout program. 50% off. And then we have a bundle that includes maps, anabolic and maps. Prime. It's called the starter bundle. That's also 50% off. If you're interested in either one or all of those, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right. Back to the show. That's a savage. Oh, yeah. I heard his motorcycle crash story and it just like blew my mind. Oh, we're all in Hawaii together. He just, yeah. He just rolled his way through the whole thing and just because of his judo background and everything like knew how to kind of fall through but just like literally got thrown off his bike. 85 mile per hour motorcycle crash. That's so crazy. And he's aged. It was like a year or two ago or something. Yeah. He broke his foot a little bit but it's funny because he tells a story to Justin. He goes, and I'm in the street and I'm trying to get up and people like, don't get up. He's like, I'm going to get run over and I'm going to get up. Yeah, dude, we had an intervention. My siblings all went to my mom afterwards, to my mom's house. And we're all like, you can stop riding motorcycles. Yeah, you can stop riding motorcycles. Yeah. Were you in the thread when I was giving him, when he was talking all sweet and appreciative of his parents and that shit all over it. We're talking about my family. Oh, I don't know. I don't know if I saw that. Yeah, you didn't respond. So I didn't know if you saw it. I forgot what it was. Yeah, you were just talking about how appreciative you were of your parents and your family there. And I was making a comment about, oh, I was telling you, like they were asking. Oh, I see. They wanted to pay for everything. Yeah. And you're like, no, no, no, no. Like what you've done has been so much for you. Yeah, because I took them to Hawaii. And I made a comment. I said, tell them how much money you made for the last 10 days while you were on vacation. Yeah. And you're like, no, no, no. It's about this, like that. My family has done so much. I could never repay them. And you were kind of like jabbing back at me when I was just like, you know, bragging to telling you to brag about how much we made. So you shit all over my my point. So I came back and said, well, yeah, I guess if I had your parents, I would say that. Oh. Sounds like we're just like my favorite way to make you feel like shit. Oh, I had a father. Yeah, I guess my killing me, dude. What a jerk. No, I know it's all fair. Yeah, you should. If we hung out a little more, Justin, I guarantee you at some point, my dad would have. He would have told you some strength story or something like that. And then he would have done something to. Yeah, I forgot about that because I would want I would like put him to the test. I want to see his he looks here naturally strong to me. He's he's he's in a lot of pain. Yeah, he's older. He's a fraction of how he used to be with that. But still. And he doesn't because he doesn't wait or train. He just he's like you could so see that your brother got his genetics. Like your brother has that same look. They just have this kind of bill to them. They look like they can lift heavy things, yet they don't lift it dry as it has it. I told you like four years ago, my my oldest thought I was making this shit up. And he told my grant my dad is like, yes, you know, dad tells me all these stories. He goes, I think he's making them up. And my dad has that he's like this really old, heavy like solid wood dining room chair or whatever. And my dad goes, I can you pick it up from the leg on the bottom with your arm straight on the floor. I was like, nobody could do that. And my dad, he does it. He's like, what the fuck? Yeah, my grandpa was a lot like that same same kind of cut, you know, cloth like he would do the same types of things where you'd like show me something where he would just like crush, you know, like like I was like a baseball or something. He like just crushed it and like he could do things that like with his grip. Yeah, it was something about the grip back in the day was like a lot more emphasized, like especially when he shook somebody's hand, you'd basically break, I was just to shake his hand. It felt like he was like breaking my bones. Well, I wonder if that has to do anything with that, right? So we've talked before about the huge decline in grip strength in men. And it's like one of the predictors for testosterone level stuff like that, right? I wonder if there's like a, in addition to that, there's also less emphasis on that. Of course. Because you're right. There is the generation before the firm handshake. That was their bench press. You know, it kind of was. Like the handshake and like the grip, like that was like this, the signal arm wrestling, like arm wrestling was so popular when I was a kid, when I was a kid, like the whole family, everybody, all all the men in the family arm wrestle. That was like a thing. Like you don't see that anymore. Well, look, listen, if you did, if you do anything manual, anything hard, if your hands are weak, I don't care how strong your arms are, your back, it doesn't matter, you have to be able to hold it and everything they did back then, working on your car back then, you would mess up your hands. He was the airplane mechanic in the Air Force. So he was just like always cranking and doing stuff with his fingers and, you know, so yeah, I got him real strong. Yeah. Well, my dad, you know, when he would like put mud on the, on the, because he did tile and granite marble, that stuff, he hold, I don't know what it's called. It's got a handle and it's a, it's a flat metal like square and you put the mud on it. Scalpel, scaffold, scaffold. I don't know what it's called, but you hold it and then he has a, he has a trowel on the other hand, which is like another flat rectangular thing. So he has a big pile of mud. It's like half a bucket of mud he would put on this thing and he take the, the trowel and he throw it on the wall and then spread it while holding it. Now, when you're a kid and you see your dad doing this, it looks easy. Yeah. It looks like, yeah, like nothing. I was, I don't know, 17 and I went to work with him. I was helping him do a family member's house and, and I looking at him like that looks easy. I said, but you know, I'm old enough to know that's probably not easy. And he goes, here, try it out. Yeah. First of all, holding this thing was exhausting because it's heavy wet mud. And then like flipping it into this stuff. Isometric load, just like the whole time you're doing, it's funny we're bringing this up because I, I was putting Everett to sleep last night and I was, I was, I found myself like watching this YouTube video was just like at home and it just kind of came across and it was these two guys. I don't know if it was from like Thailand or Philippines and they literally like their whole YouTube is about, they just make huts and houses and pools. It was literally just out of the dirt. I see the whole thing out. This amazing modern looking like steps all the way down to this pool that they made. They had a running river nearby that they put like bamboo poles to like come all the way down, do all the plumbing to basically like pump into the pool and then they had like the hut and they put like grass and everything for, for the top. It's like a time last video. It's beautiful. And it's like, it was like, I was just sitting there. I'm like, I'm such a pussy. Bro, I know you're so motivated because I know you've seen the price tag for what it's going to cost to do your pool. I know, I know how that came up, bro. You're used to be like, if I did this shit myself, what would it look like? Oh, guilty, dude. Oh, no. That's totally what that is. That's why I came up. That's 100% why I came up. I was just showing them like, this is what hard work looks like. We were just mesmerized. You're going to show the workers trying to build your pool? Oh, really? Look at these guys. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Do that. You guys got all these machines. They just had like a hoe and some big shovel. And they made it happen. You should DM them. It's probably a lot cheaper. Like, hey, guys, fly them in. Tiki torches. We'll do this. Oh, my god, that's a lot. Yeah, I got stuck on that whole once. You got crazy videos, bro. That's shit they build. It's a thrill. It'll suck you in. Watch, buddy. I bet you that's how you came across it, though. I know you were considering a build your own pool. Yeah, what if I did this myself? That's hilarious. You know, I got to give Sal, you, your credit, where it deserved, right? Because I don't remember how long ago. And I don't remember if this was made it on air or not. But we talked about affirmative action. Oh, god. And you predicted. And it was quite a while ago. Again, I don't remember if we made it on the show or not. But I know you did say this, that's going to be gone. It's only a matter of time before it's gone. And that's exactly what happened. Now, of course, there are some people that are up in arms about it and think it's crazy and ridiculous. But I wanted you to share your thoughts on it because it's something that you kind of foresaw a long time ago that it would get thrown out. Well, first off, California banned affirmative action in the 90s. Colleges in 90, I want to say 97 or 98. So we banned it a while ago and on vote. Everybody voted. Like, this is ridiculous. So this is a case that went to the Supreme Court. It's basically saying that these colleges that receive any federal funding, which is all of them, basically, even the private ones, can't use race as a way to admit people or not admit people. First off, I'll say this. Literally, people talk about racism, okay? It's one of the few remaining, affirmative action was one of the few literal in its legislation, racist laws. Meaning race is in the law or the legislation or the description is in there. The description itself. Meaning, if you're this race, this is your qualification. If you're this race, it's your qualification. In fact, I saw a chart that showed that if you were Asian-American. Oh, yeah, I saw this. If you were Asian and you scored better than 99% of everybody else, you were less likely to get into a college than if you were African-American and scored better than 40%, okay? Just to show the disparity based purely on race. I think I'm so happy it got destroyed because first off, people say it's not fair, listen to this and that, no, no, no. There are far better metrics if you're trying to help with opportunity than race. So you're gonna tell me somebody who's a certain color, regardless of where they grew up, regardless of their education, how much money they have, whatever, that that is a better indicator than some certain other things. Like I'm the son of poor immigrants. My parents were very poor. My dad went to second grade. That's how far he went to college, okay? Because I'm quote-unquote considered white and I didn't go to college, I don't care. But if I did, I would be in a different category than somebody else because of my race. And Asian-Americans, you could be an Asian immigrant, whatever, because Asians tend to perform so much higher in some of these tests, they're, because of the race, they have to score so much better or get in. And that was the case. The case was that was discriminatory against Asian-Americans. Now I brought this up, not just to give you your credit, but also, I don't know if you heard the episode with the all-in guys. They talked about this and the part that I thought was most interesting was how this is going to potentially disrupt and change college applications altogether. Meaning this is also gonna be the first domino basically to really disrupt the way the recruit athletes and also- Legacy. Legacy, thank you. Yeah, so here's why I disagree with that. Neither one of those were protected under the Constitution. So, meaning if you're a good athlete, you get recruited to a college, you could have worse scores but that let you in because you're a high-performing athlete. That's not protected. Now maybe it doesn't look good, maybe they're gonna get attacked because- Well, so that was the argument that Chamath made was, and he spoke to like a Supreme Court judge who said that this is going to set the table- It was a lawyer. Supreme Court lawyer. Was it a lawyer? I thought it was a judge. Yeah, yeah, 100%. Okay, so anyways, they made the case that this is going to set the table now for those lawsuits. For someone else basically to say, now that I'm being discriminated against, here you have this dumb kid who's getting into, just cause he can dunk a basketball and I can't. You know what the irony of that is, which is interesting, maybe a little controversial but it's not just objective. So people saying, oh, this is gonna hurt in particular African-Americans if we don't use affirmative action. Now let's eliminate athletic scholarships, which I think will disproportionately hurt also African-Americans because objectively, they tend to be more that compete at that level in many of these sports. So I don't know how you can hold both sides of that argument, to be honest with you. Well, yeah, no, it's gonna be, that's why it's gonna be really interesting to see how this all shakes out. It sounds like it's going to disrupt how education is done completely as far as admittance to school. Yeah, no, the legacy thing I kinda understand, which is like, I went there, so now you're more likely to get there. So are you pro that or not? This is also how I'm gonna bring this up. I wanted to hear you guys' opinion on that because in terms of like alumni and like- Yeah, I feel like I have probably like a controversial, like I feel like I like that and I know a lot of people probably don't like that. And the reason why I like that is if I came from what I came from, I worked as hard as I could, I educated myself, I went to college, I got into Harvard as hard as it would be. Man, part of me, I would want that to be a little bit easier for my son because I killed myself to get there. And so I'm not so anti that as everybody else is because everybody, I'm sure would think they're like, oh, that's so unfair that your kid has a leverage. Well, he does because I fucking sacrificed a lot for him to do that. I want him to have a little bit of leverage. So, and if it was truly a private school, then I would think that would be fair. Now where it becomes unfair in my opinion is that they're federally funded. Yeah, there isn't really- So what I don't think is fair is that you have to pay taxes that go to helping my son get leverage to get it. That part is where I don't- And that's the argument is that there's very few that are 100% privately funded. The private colleges receive millions of dollars in federal funding. So when it goes like that, then the arguments can be made. The athletic one, look, you're a good basketball player, football player. You're bringing the college money. Like you're a valuable asset. That makes sense to me or like, okay, whatever. It's also a talent, by the way. It's not just the color. You're not born. It's not like color your skin, where you just walk in or you write- Yeah, but again, that goes back- That means you're actually performing. I agree with that too, if it's private and you're not taking federal funds. But if you're taking federal funds, how's that fair to my son? Just because your son's gonna be more athletic than my son the way it's going. Sure, right? No. So, but my son maybe ends up being smarter, right? And but your son gets to get into Harvard and I have to pay tax dollars to help him out because he can dunk a basketball and my son gets a better test scores in years. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, and I can see an argument for that, but it's not in the same category as purely based off of race. Oh, I agree with that too. But I think that's why the lawyer was making that case, was like, this is like the first domino to make the rest of those fall because it's gonna be really easy to make a legal case against the athletes and the legacy students. It would be the federal funding aspect of it that I could see being iffy, but race is a protected, it is protected and it is literally racist to say, oh, your score is this, but you're Asian or but you're white or but you're whatever or you're Hispanic or you're black, therefore we can adjust the scores and do all this other stuff. By the way, people who are like, oh, people of this color or people in this category they tend to suffer from more of this other stuff. If you wanna use a better metric use, like did they grow up with money, without money? Economics. A dad is how to dad. Yeah, like single parent household, like that makes more sense to me and I can get that. And then the other part is like, you wanna talk about disparity, forget the higher education, that's bullshit. Don't look at that. Look at public elementary, public junior high and public high school. You know, that was the first time Jason Calcanis said something on the show that I like 100% agreed with. I thought his opinion on the way that we should solve education and not only is the voucher direction and makes schools competitive, but also if you wanna address disparity, you gotta do it from K-1, kindergarten. Kindergarten up is where it begins. And if you're not giving, I mean, it's crazy. I'm so intrigued by this conversation too, because Katrina and I were just talking about this like, you know, I didn't start any sort of formal school until I was five. My son's been in school since two. And like watching him like right now and right now, one of the things that we do at the dinner table, we do a lot of like these like math problems and tracing and alphabet stuff. And I'm thinking, dude, I've been doing this with my son at three years old and four years old before he even gets to his, like he's gonna have such an advantage compared to what I had. I struggled in school. School didn't come easy to me. And I think that that is a major advantage more than anything else is the ability to be able to educate at a young age and get them started. Look, if you ever wanna see a gross disparity, the kind that you're like, how is this even possible? Go to public schools. Go to public schools in an inner city. Go to one in a wealthy suburb. It is the biggest disparity you've ever seen. They're all publicly funded. They have no other option. It's insane. And the problem is you have no choice. You live in this neighborhood, that's the school your kid goes to whether you like it or not. Yeah, that's the biggest glaring problem. And it's all publicly funded. Do you know how much a public school in California gets per student, per school year on average? Like $16,000 a month, excuse me, a year, a school year. Imagine if you gave that voucher to the parents. Here, and then pick your school. You know, pick the school your kid goes to. And then the school has to accept it because it's whatever. It makes it much more, that makes it much more fair. But basing things off of race, that's, I mean, that's the literal definition of racism. So I'm glad it ended and it's so funny to me how people position it as being racist by ending affirmative action. It's interesting. Those people tend to be the racist ones because what they're literally saying is if you're this color, not if you grew up in this area, not if you didn't have two parents, not if your dad or mom was incarcerated or you grew up poor, not any of that. If you're just this race, then we need to lower the standards to let you in. Those are the real racist people. Not the people who are saying you gotta be, let in based off of your scores. And if we consider anything, consider your individual life and what happened there, not just the color of your skin. Yeah, yeah. Insane of me. So I'm glad it ended. You guys want to talk about Title IX in trans? No. Why is that? I didn't know if we want to keep going on this. Really big Doug Pucker up over there. Controversial train. I just tweeted, I just re-tweeted. Wait, didn't that girl actually just go through court? By the way, I don't know if you saw, the girl who refused to play, I think that's the one, right? Is that what's going on? She got, she got, went all the way to court, didn't? Are you familiar with this type? I don't know where it's at right now. So I was half joking. Yeah, no, oh, you were, I thought you were serious. That's why you were like alluding to that. No, I mean, I wanted to know if you guys had heard any like developments. So you remember the girl that I can't wish, I'm hoping my producers can save me right here because I can't, I want to make sure my facts are straight on like what. I don't think it's been heard yet, but I think it's good. What college, what college she went to and she was the one who refused to play in the. It was swimming, right? Yeah. Track. Was it track? I think it's either swimming or volleyball. Okay. Yeah, that's what I thought it was, but I mean, I know that court case just happened. So I was actually looking to ask one of you, hoping one of you guys that had followed it. So, okay, so it's interesting you said that. I literally retweeted this insane article, insane article. This is so crazy that we're discussing this. Someone wrote an article and said the re, the same, the same people who tried to oppress women are the ones trying to keep trans women from competing or something like that. Like it's still the patriarchy and it's still oppression of women or whatever. I think this is so crazy to me. Again, like I said with the affirmative action, the real sexist people are the people that were saying that trans women should be able to compete with biological women. There's no differences, whatever. Not acknowledging any of the differences. It's in the advantages or biology. It's so crazy to me that they're doing that because it's gonna destroy women's sport. Well, it's crazy to me that like this, even a discussion like this, you can't have it without being attacked in somebody calling you transphobic. It's like, wait, we can't have an intelligent conversation around the biology and science advantage that this person has versus this other person and just discuss, is this the best approach to it? Like, because I'm not necessarily saying I know the answer to like how we solve this. I think I have some better ideas than what we're doing but I definitely don't know all the answers. But just to have that conversation, you get thrown in a category of being transphobic because you're discussing it. I think that's ridiculous. Well, let's just make believe if you're just gonna dismiss the fact that there's differences. There are characteristics, biological characteristics that are completely different. We have to be able to stick with the actual science and biology in order to make decisions on what's fair and what's not. That's what sports is. What's fair and what's not. That's the conversation of it. Yeah, that's all. Look, it's so crazy we even have that look. You can't erase the differences simply by changing your hormones. You just can't. If you're, you put me, you shut my testosterone off. You put me on estrogen. Yes, things are gonna change. Yes, I'm gonna lose muscle. I'm gonna lose strength. I'm gonna lose bone density. But not enough to make it so that if, like I was born a woman. Now, people always like to use this example of like, oh, there's a woman that could squat 500 pounds is stronger than you. And there's guys that can barely, do a single pushup, but no, no, no. Those are only extremes. They're outliers. Yeah, yeah. But generally speaking, it's not just testosterone that makes men stronger. There's other things that also make us stronger and faster and that kind of stuff. You also, the way to squash that argument too is you can't, you don't compare the strongest deadlifting woman to us. You compare her to the strongest deadlifting man. And this huge. And when you, the strongest, the fastest, everything, when you compare the sexes like that, it's not even close. It's not fair at all. So. And what it does is it shuts, the reason why there were categories to begin with is so women could compete. So they could get scholarships. So they could have their own. And they're going to race them. Trying to elevate women to, you have opportunities. By the way, you don't see this argument. You don't see this argument with trans men. I know, I know. You don't see a bunch of dudes who are like, hey, I'm not competing because there's a trans guy. They don't do that. Why? Because they get their asses kicked. I mean, there may be an outlier here and there, but they just lose it. So the, so the fallout is happening, right? We're seeing these core cases. Andrew says it's already, there's already been several of them. It's only going to get crazier and worse. What's the outcome? What happens? What do you guys think? I think, I think eventually they're going to have to, they're going to have to. Separate category. Yeah. It has to be a different way to allow competition, obviously, but it can't be integrated. Like there, there needs to be separate categories. I mean, is it that or do you just have to, compete in your original sex? I don't think they're going to do that because you do lose performance. I mean, you do, but that's by your choice. That's your choice. Yeah, I mean, that's another option. I mean, I feel like that, that's the- That's true. That's another option. That's, I feel like that's the only option until there's enough to actually create a league. You think there's actually a big enough league for trans women basketball or trans, trans basketball? Like I don't see enough to actually create a league to create, and that's why they can't do it that way. So they've got to go somewhere right now. That's kind of where, but why we're where we are. So to me, exactly. I think that's where we made the mistake was thinking that, oh, this is the best place to put them is where they are, what they identify as now. But I think the more fair way to place them is what you originally were. You know, and people need to understand this because the threat from a lot of this, how they're pushing it. And what I mean by pushing is like the same sports and this other stuff is to women. It's not really to guys. Like, you know, like restrooms, separate restrooms, okay? The whole argument of separate restrooms. Men don't typically feel threatened by going into a bathroom and a woman walks in. Some women do feel threatened, and rightly so. Like men are several times more likely to assault women than vice versa. We tend to be stronger, more aggressive. We commit more of the violent crimes. And people who deny like, oh, the threat thing, like that's a real reality. So it's the women that I do feel threatened. I have laws to protect people. Well, that's the threat feeling, right? I don't feel threatened. I could go into a woman's bathroom. I'm not gonna feel weird. A woman going to a man's bathroom, she might feel a little, but oftentimes feel a little weird, threatened, right? If I walk down the street, if I go down a dark alley and I see a group of five women sitting down by the street drinking beer, I'm gonna walk by them. I'm not gonna feel threatened. Most women are gonna feel maybe some threat or some fear, right? Rightly so, like there's some statistics there that back that up. Sports, those categories exist. Not to protect men. Men didn't create the category to be like, we don't want women competing against us because we're gonna, we need our own category. It was for women. So a lot of this is women that are feeling some of this stuff and so, and look, rightly so, we gotta have a real conversation. And it's not transphobic and other stuff, it's just real life. Yeah, live and let live, but at the same time we're talking about sports and the integrity of the sport. And I just think that it does need to be discussed. Speaking of men committing violent crimes on women, did I tell you what happened to my sister? What? Yeah, my sister, Cassie. What happened? This just happened when we were all on vacation. She, in fact, it was the day before I see a freak the shit out of me, right? So we're all getting ready to get, we're at the house, at the truckie house, getting ready to get in the truck, Katrina and the baby, and my sister calls. And my sister never calls me. She knows, like, text me first. Like, you know, what are you doing? So that, and then, like, she'll call. So just to directly call me, I looked at her, that's weird, I'm gonna better answer it, right? Even though I was, like, in the middle of, like, loading the truck. So I pick it up and she's hysterically crying. And she's, like, catching her breath and she's just like, this guy tried to kill me. What? Is what she starts her fucking sense of. I fucking write, I like, tell Katrina, get back to the car. I'm like, where are you? Where are you? I'm coming right where? And she's just, and she's trying to catch her breath. And I'm like, what happened? What's going on? Where are you at? Who's by you? And she catches her breath and she tells me that this guy tried to run her off the road. Literally. Like a road rage thing? Bro, destroyed the side of her car, ran her off the road. He actually hit her car? Oh, bro, slammed her car. What? She was freaked out. Did she get his license and everything? No, none of that. Didn't get a description, license, nothing. So she was wedged between, like, a semi and another vehicle that was driving really slow. And the guy behind her was, like, aggressively riding her ass and, like, coming up, trying to push her forward so that she brake checked him. And after she brake checked him, this dude comes over on the side, comes up, gasses it, gets alongside her, and fucking, wham! Slams her off the road, dude. Wow. Yeah, scared the shit out of her. Scared the shit out of me, man. She started it with this, someone's trying to kill me. Oh my God, my heart's beating, man. Now, does she live awful? She lives in Nevada. Yeah. Does she have a firearm? Or does she carry? Cause I know the laws there. So she does have a firearm. And I, at that moment, I didn't ask her if she had her gun on her or not. I mean, the guy. Cause that would be legal defense, right? Cause that's a deadly weapon, a car. That's right. So Tom got there, her husband got there to make sure that when they filed the report that it wasn't an accident, it was an assault with a deadly weapon. Like, that's what they were trying to do. And so it did get filed as that, but I mean, there was no, I mean, the guy got away. I mean, there's, he hit her and then took off. Yeah, I didn't tell you guys that. It was so- Oh my God. You just made me think of that with like, men acting out in violence. You know, dude, that's why, so I tell, I actually had this a while ago. I know where you're gonna go with this. I had this conversation with my daughter. Yeah. And I said, you may feel emboldened at some point to flip a guy off, get in his face, maybe slap a guy and lots of guys won't do anything back, but there's occasional piece of shit that may, and you could get very hurt. So I told her, I said, don't ever do anything and not consider that there may be a violent response from a man. I mean, the exact thought that's went through my, I mean, obviously my sister is hysterical in that moment. The last thing I'm gonna do is- Yeah, tell her don't do that. Yeah, scold her. Of course. And his response was not, she didn't deserve it. Right, right, right, 100%. But I mean, it really was like that away. I mean, I'm careful of that, you know? Even being a male that I know can do some damage, you just never know what someone, what someone's caring. And then you also have to consider this. When somebody is driving like that and has that kind of road rage or something like that, you have no idea what happened there. You have no idea if they're in fuck it mode. They're in fuck the world. They could have a psychiatric break. They could have a, I mean, we've all had a day like this before where you are, you've crossed the line of what your limit is and you're going like, the next mother- You're just looking for a reason. You're looking. I'm looking for the next motherfucker to cross the line with me. And it's gonna be his worst day because I've already had mine and I'm looking for a reason to get all this rage out. And if someone's already acting that way on the road, there's actually probably a high percentage. That person is in that state of mind already. So risking flirting with that when you're not protected or you're not with more people is, boy, is that really dangerous. I, you know, I had, I remember years ago when I was dating my ex-wife, this was a long time ago, she flipped off the guy that cut us off and I had a conversation with her. And I said, listen, I said, when you do that, you're basically saying my boyfriend's gonna fight you because you don't know what the other guys are gonna do. So you asked me before you do something like that because it ain't gonna be you that's gonna, you know, have to trade hands with somebody. It's gonna be me. You gotta think of that when you do that kind of stuff. But yeah, I've had this conversation a couple of times with my daughter. Said, don't ever, don't ever think that a guy's not gonna do something back to you just because he's a guy. A lot of guys won't, there's an occasional one that will. But there's always that asshole out there. There's always that piece of shit that'll do something and then you're gonna get hurt. So, you know, I'll be very careful. Anyway. I saw one of you had the recession notes up there and stuff and I was curious to like, what you've been paying attention to, like what's going on in the economy, the housing market, is that you, Sal? No, it isn't. But I have been kind of hearing that it seems like it's reversing. Yeah. Seems like things are coming out. That's what I think is yet. So that, but then also you have this looming, what might happen with some of these loans, the Airbnb fallout, have you read what's happened? 50% drop, right? Airbnb. Yeah. Yeah, so there's a lot of people that used to play the arbitrage game on Airbnb, which is basically where you rent from somebody else and then rent. And then your Airbnb. Yeah, you Airbnb out. Is that what's happening? Yeah, so there's that part of it that's having a massive fall. Then there's the other part of there. I think they're called DSCR or DCSR. Probably get the acronym wrong. Types of loans, which basically you do not have to show income on like the old, like kind of old loans where you just prove that at the income. And because Airbnb was blowing up in the last four or five years, I could go get this property and say a random area or let's use our example of Park City, what we have. And I could go, hey, this rents to this a night times 70% occupancy over the years and that. So I'll be cash filling this much. And then they would, they would approve loans. Even if that person only made 40 grand a year on. Because of how much they potentially could make on the market. That's right. And those are falling out because of the decline in the Airbnb. So they're not. What are the rules with that? In terms of like, if you catch somebody, let's say you're the owner of the house and like they're listing it on Airbnb and like getting rent. I don't know what the ramifications are, but is it illegal to do that without approval? So, but you can do, you can't be legal. So it is, if you approve it. So, yeah, yeah. So like our buddy Lawrence, I remember was, was doing the arbitrage thing a couple of years ago over here on a property, but he worked the deal out. Like he literally told the rent, the owner who wanted to rent it. I'll pay you the rent. Yeah, he says I'll pay the rent, but I'm going to, I'm going to short term lease this. Well, that makes sense if they're transparent with it, but like imagine if you're like the owner of the house and then you look at your listings there. Bro, I bet that happens all the time. I wonder about that. I bet that happens a lot more than you hear about. I'm sure that happens. I mean, we know as homeowners and or landlords, like, you know, it's not like you're checking up on every one of your properties all the time. And if you're collecting rent every month, that's right, no reason to go. Yeah, if you're, I mean, we have a company, I don't know if you guys know this, one of our Oklahoma properties that is rented to us does that. So they do arbitrage, that's their business, is they rent from us, we get the stable income for us of the rent, but they turn around and they actually have a business that specializes in finding like engineers and companies that are businesses that have a lot of employees that. They'll rent it. Yes. And then have people. And then they rent by the room to like that company. And if you're a landlord, like, sure, you're paying me. Yeah, we don't care. Like we, I mean, for us, as long as the agreement on the price per month was cash flowing for ours, that we're more in the long-term game, not about cash flow for us. So it was like, hey, it's no brainer, we're cash flowing a few hundred dollars a month on that property. They can go try it. They can risk trying to make thousands of dollars. As long as we get our stable. Trying to make a cream on top. Yeah, our stable monthly. That also brings up though, why that was like one of our headaches when we first rented out, they tried to, they had a hard time renting it out right away. And so for like three months, they were losing money cause they were in a contract with us to pay. And they tried to pull some shady shit with us like over the, you know, the corner lot and there wasn't a fence there and people driving over it and oh, this, you know, we couldn't get the internet guy to find the address cause it was on Zoom. Trying to nitpick. Oh, they were there. And I remember cause Jerry manages this for us, right? And so I remember those days when Adam was super mad and they're like, Adam's super pissed off. So those were some of those days I was super heated about that because I'm getting it from Jerry going like, hey, they're trying to sue us over this. I'm like, what? I'm like, that's not even possible. And then I like, I do a little bit of digging go, oh, okay. I know why. They're doing the whole, they're playing that game. Yeah, they're playing that game because they lost a bunch of money in the first three months. Their whole, their whole business is built off of leveraging that they can, they can rent it out for more. If they lose three months of rent on us, they're gonna, they can already chalk up the whole year and not being profitable even if they were down. So they do the nitpick game. Yeah. Oh, cover this one. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, oh, okay. I see what's going on. And Adam don't play it. Adam's the wrong guy to do that with. Yeah. Hey, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a left turn. I think I brought this up on a past episode. I told you guys that I was considering ketamine therapy. Did I tell you guys that? Yeah, you did. Can I ask you how the therapy's going? Where are you at with that? Sorry. I think I'm gonna pursue ketamine therapy. Oh. So ketamine therapy's approved FDA approved. This is done with doctors and therapists. So it's all legit. And so I, I, I, I'm diving in deep before I sign up for this and see what it's all about. Fuck, this is remarkable. It's remarkable the, uh, how much ketamine improves neuroplasticity. Literally they could see it. They could see what the dentrites that come off the neuron in a stressed brain are short under ketamine, they grow. And you have like this period of time after one session, it's like a week long where your brain is hyperplastic and you can influence changes, actual physical changes in the brain during that period of time. And so the way that it's organized, this is an eight week period. Once a week you do the therapy under the influence of ketamine. And I was talking to this individual about its effectiveness. And she's, she administers it and does it. And I said, so how effective is this? And she goes, uh, she goes, I have people who are severe trauma. Like we're talking about like severe, severe, like think about the worst case scenario, abuse and that kind of stuff. She goes, and after eight weeks, it's like they're a completely different person. She's like, it's like years of therapy in like this short period of time. Now is your super, it's crazy exciting. So I mean, I've been, I've been hearing tons of stuff about that. And we've talked already about MDMA and psilocybin and stuff like that. Now, are you abandoning the other therapy or have you already abandoned that? No, no, no. You want, I'm going to keep doing all of it. And have you done more since we've talked last? I know a little bit, but then we were on vacation, stuff like that. Oh, you mean the EMDR? Yeah, thank you. EMDR. Because I've actually, I don't know if you've seen, we've had several people that have, they've asked me about your updates on how that's going because you had been sharing that with us. Yeah, I've done a couple of them. One of the sessions was so impactful that it really did change how I viewed certain things in childhood, like any fundamental way, one session. So it was pretty remarkable. I'm excited to experience what therapy under the influence of this, they call it a psychotropic. So it's not a psychedelic, right? Ketamine, psychotropic of what that's going to be like. The research on it is fascinating and remarkable. You guys know that, by the way, the reason why FDA is approving these now is because of all these continual wars that we've been in, such a high percentage of suicide among soldiers because of, do you know what the leading cause of death of American service people? Suicide. Suicide. More of them die in suicide than in war. So the government is like, and they see the data and they're like, all right, let's look at this because this is not working out well for us. Is it getting too personal to ask you what shifted fundamentally more? Oh man. God damn you, bro. I'm sorry. Come on, come on, come on, God. Can't do it. I'm just so fascinated. I'm so fascinated. I'll tell you all fair. In therapy style. I'll tell you all fair. I'll tell you all fair. I'll tell you all fair. In therapy style. I'll tell you all fair. I'll tell you all fair. But so he's still having then great, I guess the takeaway though is still having great breakthroughs. I mean, you know. Still been incredible. Yeah. I mean, our generation stigmatized, I think a lot of, you know, kind of therapy and that kind of stuff. I, the way I look at it, and I stigmatized it myself to be quite honest, but the way I look at it is, if you're growth minded, then being able to self reflect with an expert or person who understands how to do that with you, you're just gonna grow faster. So you want to be a better person than, and my motivation is I'm a father. I'm a husband. I want to really be a good, especially a good father. So I'm like, all right. And I know I ain't perfect by any stretch of the imagination. So like that. It's such a super hack because even if you're somebody who's into reading self-help, right? And you are growth minded, you still have your own bias. And you have a lens that you see things through. Your friends, your family. You don't know what you don't know. The bias is a narrative that they've already written about you. Yeah. So I mean, and then that's not to knock self-help or knock being personal growth on your own. Because I think either you can make a lot of headway just in that alone, right? I think you can have a lot of breakthroughs, but there still is this like filter that you look through because of how you were raised and just having an outside non-biased person help you reflect on that is paramount. The benefits of that is tremendous. But again, with these substances, what they're finding is because emotions, especially strong emotions, strengthen thought patterns, okay? So if you had a scary thing happen to you or like a lot of people don't necessarily have like a big trauma, but they have what are called little traumas, right? So it's like, well, none of these crazy things happened to me, but I was kind of neglected throughout most of my life. Or there was a lot of, it was kind of tumultuous when I was a kid or whatever. Those things can, when you think about them and really address them and talk about them, invoke those strong emotions. And it's, you can't really process through it because those strong emotions just strengthen that same behavior. So what these substances do like ketamine, ketamine is a disassociative. So let's say something really bad happened to you. You get in a car accident, you almost die. You try to think about it and process it. All it does is bring up those emotions. Even though intellectually you could process it, those emotions still strengthen that visceral response that stays with you. So now every time you get in a car, for example, you get scared or you feel anxious or whatever. With, for example, ketamine, it disassociates you from that. So now I don't get that feeling. You get like mentally reframed but you can't like change what you feel. You can emotionally reframe. Now I can visit this scary thing and I don't get the same reaction and I've created a new pathway. And then I can strengthen that pathway through, you know, repeated therapy. Now how is that sound different than psilocybin? Because that's actually one of the ways that I was, we were just, we had this conversation with one of our best friends and they're married couple, good friends go back way back and we were expressing like we've utilized psilocybin and I described it with that exact way. So how are they different? Are they similar in that way? They're similar in what they're showing in the studies but they're different substances. Right, they're very different substances. Yeah, so, but they're similar. Like the psilocybin studies that blow me away are the end of life ones, which are crazy. So people who are terminal, like you go to the doctor, doctor's like you're gonna die in two months or three months. Like depression, anxiety, obviously skyrocket. They did a study with people who were terminal, who did psilocybin therapy. I don't remember what the percent, it was crazy number. It was like 80. I thought it was almost 90%. It was crazy. It was like a vast majority. It was like 80 or 90% of them felt at peace. So you're gonna die in two months. Imagine how you'd feel. Oh my God, my wife, my kids, my family, my business. What do I do? What's it like? They came out of therapy at peace. How crazy is that? Nobody's ever been to show that with that type of stuff except for maybe like really powerful religious experiences, which is what people are kind of equating it to. That's why. Anyway, the research is gonna be, the research on it's pretty amazing. That's why I suggest, speaking of research, I wanna bring this up because this continues to come up with people and protein quality and stuff like that. And I know this, we've hammered this home, but I wanna say this. If a majority of your protein is not from animal sources, you're gonna need more protein to do the same thing as the animal sources. Okay, so if you're a vegan or a vegetarian, you hear us talking about, 0.8 grams of protein per pound of body weight is optimal. You're probably gonna need more like 1.2 of plant protein to equal the same benefits and studies just support this. So protein powders can be very valuable for a lot of people. If you're a vegan, you probably need a lot. You probably need a lot of vegan protein powders to get those benefits of protein. Now is that because it's singly sourced or like what about things like Organifi where they use a blend of different things? Better than single sourced plant proteins. Still though, the assimilation of bioavailability is still better with animal sources. But yeah, so Organifi is a good example. If you're a vegan or you don't eat a lot of animal sources of protein and you wanna supplement with a vegan protein, Organifi is a great one and have two, three servings a day. Really boost your protein up with it to get those protein benefits because... The beautiful part about that is that like my digestive system can handle two or three servings of Organifi where I can't handle two or three servings of the way. Yep, same here, same here. For a lot of people, it seems to be easier to digest. Oh yeah, yeah. So I have a good shout out for us today and it's a good friend of ours. And I was blown away the first time and then I'm now, I think episode three that I've seen him in and that's our buddy Robert Oberus on Righteous Gems. He's in the Righteous Gems though. Isn't that so cool to see him there? He isn't just in it, he's got a role, dude. Like a legit role. Has lines. Good for him. Yeah, I was like so blown away. Cause I had seen like he did a post a while back when maybe he was doing some filming. Yeah, I'd seen him hanging out with the other actors. Yeah, and I thought, oh maybe he just has some friends on the set or maybe he's got an extra cause he's got these big massive physiques so they found a way to make him like a cool extra or whatever like that. And no dude, he's got like legit role. Super excited for him. He's a great guy. You should follow him on it. If you don't follow that guy, he's a World Strongest Man competitor. He's a giant. He's also super nice guy, fun. Great dude. Some of the guys made me feel like a little baby. He picked you up. I'm very, you guys already picked me up and threw me in the pool. Yeah, and we almost like slammed my head. I still have that picture. I'll share that with Andrew for the YouTube channel. By the way, we created Map Strong with Robert Oberus cause he's a World Strongest Man competitor and we wanted to bring him to get like a strong, a real strong man perspective on how to program that work. And we didn't with him. Yeah, this is how he became friends, right? We all hit it off so much after that and it remained in contact. So probably due to have him back on the show but shout out to Robert Oberus. I think it's so cool that he's on Regis Jimstones. Legion is a company that makes excellent athletic performance enhancing muscle building and fat burning supplements. These are the best hard core high performance supplements you'll find anywhere and they're legit. Go check them out. Go to bylegion.com. That's B-Y-L-E-G-I-O-N.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump and get yourself a discount. All right, back to the show. First caller is Noah from Maryland. What's up Noah? How can we help you? Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. I know now is usually when people tell you how much they love the show. So I'll skip that. But I love you guys. I love listening. I love your programs. I'm 29 years old. I've got about a 15 year training background and I started listening to the show. I liked it. Ran a handful of programs back to back to back. And I've gotten as strong muscular lean as I have in that time and most injury free. So thank you all for that. Can I give you a quick compliment with a little bit of detail about split? Cause I feel like it doesn't get enough love. Yeah, sure. All right, I don't want to give away any secret sauce but I really like the way it, it's the double split and it mixes a little bit of bilateral barbell work for each. And then comes back around unilateral and the more split stance on the second time around for each push pull legs in the week. I just think that's really cool. Yeah, keep part of the programming. Yep, thank you. Yep, absolutely. Anyway, I just went through a phase of training a little bit like a maniac. I had a ton of free time on my ends. I just finished BT school, passed my board exam and started up my own first job as a physical therapist yesterday actually. Congrats. And yeah, thank you. And so in that downtime, I kind of took it as an opportunity to really push myself. I had all the free time in the world right before I'm about to have none of the free time in the world. And I'm worried that I had great results progressed towards all my goals but I'm worried that I got myself in a trap of doing that with a lot of increased volume and intensity. And if you guys have any tips for ways to not regress now that I'm gonna have to pull back on the amount of time that I'm spending in the gym and focused on my fitness goals. Yeah, well, so there's a myth that I believe for a long time when it comes to fitness and it goes something like this like whatever you do to get in shape you have to keep doing to stay in shape. That's actually false. It's actually false. The amount of volume and intensity and frequency that someone is may need to build muscle or progress is much more than the amount that that person would need to do to maintain. So you could probably cut and this is the data supports this, okay? Data supports one seventh. Yeah, I mean, you could go way down. You could cut your volume in half and you're not gonna lose anything. You might lose a little bit of stamina and endurance because that might suffer from the reduced volume but in terms of strength, muscle, how you look you're not gonna lose anything. If anything, knowing what I know about fitness fanatics knowing what I know about human behavior you may actually progress by cutting your volume down in half all things being equal. So I wouldn't worry about it. I would just follow a program that has less volume, less training when that fits your schedule. And then that's it. And you're probably gonna be, not only are you gonna be fine, you might actually do better. Ideally knowing what you're about to head into because I do know how rigorous the schedule can be for a PT. I'd have MAPS anabolic and MAPS 15 in my arsenal. And I think scaling back to MAPS anabolic is gonna do a body good, probably feel good but if it gets to a point where even three full hour workouts in a gym becomes too hectic for you or too much on your crazy schedule then MAPS 15 is a great default to that or toggling back and forth between when you have crazy loads you kind of do more of a MAPS 15 type of routine when you have weeks or stretches when you have less of a load you can get after MAPS anabolic. But I think having those two at your disposal probably be two of the best programs to have in your arsenal. If you don't have those already, do you have those? I have anabolic and MAPS 15. All right, we'll hook you up with 15 so you got 15 now too. What is your workout schedule look like now and what do you think it's gonna look like in terms of time? So what it did look like right at the end is I really ramped up but the most I could equate it to it almost be like peaking for a bodybuilding show which I wasn't doing but it was like that kind of level of spending time I was spending a few hours in the gym getting home, making myself some food walking after I ate, doing some chores around the house try to keep moving to eat again and then walk again and that was pretty much my day so there wasn't a whole lot of anything else going on but I had nothing else going on. Now on my schedule with physical therapy I'll be doing two 10 to eight shifts and two seven to three shifts. So I'm trying to figure out if I'll do mornings on some days, evenings on other days or maybe take some rest during the week and pick up the weekend days instead. MAP, you're fine. MAPS anabolic, you know what? If you didn't tell me anything about your new schedule I would still tell you to do MAPS anabolic because what you were doing before was probably too much. You got away with it because you recovered but I bet going back to MAPS anabolic you're probably gonna see progress. You're probably gonna build muscle and strength. So I would do that, that's three days a week that's three days a week in the gym. Yeah, yeah, and as I mentioned in my question what I did before was intended only to be a very short-term push and then get away from it. I would never do that long-term. I did have one thing to add, you know I've heard you guys talk about how you don't need to train as much to maintain strength and muscle the specific backslide I was worried about is actually putting on body fat because I got myself used to staying lean through using a ton of movement which I know is a trap and now I'm worried about continuing to hit protein but dropping my calories so that I don't lose the muscle which I know I can keep but not being in a calorie surplus when my activity is so much lower. Do you know how much you were hitting calorie-wise during this time of super high activity? Where are you at? Based on the times that I tracked before I was probably around 200 grams of protein and probably 3,000 calories or so and I was building strength and dropping fat in that time. You know what'll probably happen is I would say don't change your diet yet. I would go maps on a ball like on your days off just keep track and I'll try to pay attention to how much you walk so maybe do a few walks a day, 15-minute walks and what'll probably happen is you'll probably feel more muscle growth. Yeah, I don't think you're too high a calorie I would have said if you were like 4,000 I'd say I just dropped your calories five to 600 calories but at 3,000 calories and you were getting leaner and building muscle you're probably gonna just build more. Yeah, that was in a cut intentionally. Oh, it was. I would keep it the same then. I wouldn't change it, you're gonna be fine. Yeah, I think you're just fine, man. All right, well thank you guys. Oh, can I put in a quick question about bands? Yeah. So I was considering looking into bands just for future use, nothing now but does that require any gym equipment on top of bands or is it like even things to anchor to or like would they be around a barbell that I'm pressing or is it just pure band work? Yeah, ideally, yeah, pure band work but ideally you'd have like a pull-up bar or we also use like a bench I tried not to like incorporate a bench so there's ways around it but those would be the only two items like in addition to just having a band. Okay, thanks very much and Justin, thank you for all your hypertrophy and fat loss input. Thanks for your question, it was very relevant for you. Yeah, awesome. I'm here for you, bro. All right, thank you all. Sal, one last thing, when I started listening I wanted to tell you this, probably the hardest last laugh in the last year so was your story about going into the woods with a milk jug and a barbell squatting so you couldn't go to school the next day? Yeah, true story. A painful story. You did fun stuff. I don't know, his pillow fights was the funniest for me. I like the shitting outside. All right, Noah, thank you, brother. We'll send that math 15 over to you, brother. All right, thank you. You got it, man. Yeah, this is a hard one for people to believe that they can do less. This is for fitness. I didn't know that. I know, and you know what's funny, still even for me, like I literally, so if I'm training and I'm pushing volume, I'll do between 16 to 20 sets per body part, per week total, okay? I recently dropped everything down to nine sets so that's a pretty significant drop. It's like half, and what do you think's happening? Progressing, like every time, you know? So it's usually that you're overdoing it and doing less will probably get you better results but at the worst, doing less maintains. Not to mention, I know I don't remember, recall what the group in that study that referred to the one seventh to maintain what their training experience is, but I would speculate that as that compound, so do the results and the ease of being able to maintain, meaning when you get someone like him who's been training for 15 years, consistently like that or like us 20 plus years, it just gets even easier to maintain. So, you know, if I were to have stopped or fell off when I was 21, I had like, you know, made minimal gains. Well, there's not a lot to maintain because I haven't gained a lot because I had just started, but as you progress through years and add more and more training volume, add more and more muscle to maintain that becomes easier and easier. So a guy like this, I think he's gonna be surprised when he reduces down to like a MAPS anabolic program, he'll probably stay just as fit or maybe even get fitter by doing that. Definitely is stronger, I could guarantee. Yeah. Next caller is Alicia from Ohio. Hey, Alicia, how can we help you? Hi guys, I just wanted to say thank you for having me on here. I've been listening to you guys since I started even touching weights. So like you've helped me throughout my journey of not even doing anything to now why I'm here. Awesome. So I'll give you a little background. I've been doing your guys's powerlifting program. I've run through it twice now. So I've been powerlifting for about two and a half years, training for about three years in that direction. The first time I ran it, my squat went up tremendously like 15 pounds, bench went up, it was great. Deadlift did not change at all. And then the second time I ran it, I was doing like a bulk through both of these phases back and back. So within that bulk, I like gained like 10 pounds and everything weight-wise, but my deadlift didn't increase. It actually like, I couldn't even pull my one rep when I tested it just now. And then my squat went up like five pounds and then bench still goes up five pounds. But my basic question is with that and kind of being more experienced in everything, is there a way I can modify your guys's powerlift program to gear it towards increasing the squat and deadlift and kind of breaking through that plateau or anything like that. Let's talk about where you're at right now first. Where are you at in those three lifts? So bench is about 240 right now. Whoa. Wait, 240? You would bench 240? Yes. Well, I already have an idea what's going on. Anyway, give us a nice number. We wrote these programs too effectively guys. What are you squatting? Squats, they're not as impressive as the bench. They're only like 330 is what I hit. Jesus Christ. Okay, that's good. What's your deadlift? Deadlift is stuck at like 309, 310, maybe if I'm pulling like good, but like when I just tested it, I couldn't even lift like 295 off the ground. So it's kind of where the numbers are. How old are you? I'm 27. And you've been powerlifting just for a few years? Yes. Do you remember what you lifted when you first started? When I very first started like ever touching a weight, like just the bar would bruise my back. And that was like about four years ago. Okay. So here's, so this is when it gets, this is when stuff gets fun, but also potentially frustrating. Okay. It's fun because you're legitimately stronger than 99% of the women in the world. Okay. Those are numbers that I, I mean, I trained a lot of clients. I never had a female client that could lift that much except for like super high level competitive bench. Yeah. Like that's insane. Your bench press in particular. I don't think I've ever seen a woman bench that I've trained in that realm. You should check out like Jen Thompson. Yeah. I know. I know that there's people there out there. But my point is, You should not actually check her out. You should not. Exactly. Like compare. Yeah. You're talking about a one in a million person, maybe one in 10 million. My point is you're really strong. You've gotten to such a high level that it's really hard. Everything's incremental now. It's really hard to progress from here. So, okay. So you follow maps power lift. This is the second or third time through? Second time. And then do you do anything in between? Um, normally I take like a week off of rest. Okay. Symmetry. Do you have a specific competition coming up or something you're training for? I do have something coming up in November, November 15th. Oh, that's time. So I'm hoping to get one more cycle in before then. Okay. So here's the sticking point oftentimes for people at your level has to do with imbalances, technique, mobility. You tend to improve some of that with someone like you and you start to see some power output improvements or increases like unilateral training would probably benefit you really well. Now during that period of time, you're not going to be lifting nearly as much as you normally do. And then when you go back to bilateral, you might initially find that your strength is lower, but then because you've corrected certain imbalances and improved your symmetry, right? From left to right, then you'll see that you'll surpass some of your old lifts. I think that would probably do you really well. Yeah, I'd love to see her run symmetry right now and then go back to power lift. Yeah, the problem is time though. I don't know if she has enough time for that. Okay, we have, we're in, what are we in June? We're in June. Okay, end of June. July, August, September, October, November. So you could technically go symmetry right now. And then when she goes to the five by five, instead of going to the five by five in symmetry, go right into power lift. So skip the last phase of symmetry and then get back into power lift. Yeah, do you, now let me ask you this, obviously you're strong, you've been in this for a little while. Where do you feel the sticking points are for you and do you feel pain anywhere? Like when you deadlift a lot, do you notice any issues? Talk me through this. So I have had some like lower back pain, but that was started like a year ago. So I've been turning the core mostly to like help that and kind of stabilize that. And I've adjusted my technique in order, like I don't feel that anymore. Okay. But that was like previously. And then it's just like getting it right off the ground is kind of like... You pull sumo? Okay. Yeah, I pull sumo. Yeah, sticking point for sumo is usually right there. You said you've experimented with deficit deadlifts a bit. Yeah, so this previous time when I did the first phase, I did deficits with like just the smaller like 25 pound ones that you see like at the commercial gym. That was like about how much of a deficit I did. And then I just kept loading those up for those for the first phase until like about halfway through power lift. You can also do pause. So where you get... You take a weight that you can lift, lift it two or three inches off the floor, pause for four or five seconds and then finish the lift. So you're pausing about two inches or two to four inches or two to six inches off the floor and then lift. So you have to go lighter, much lighter to do that. Yeah. But that'll help build the strength and tension in that lower part of the rep. But I mean, single leg deadlifts and Bulgarian squats, I mean, are going to be fantastic for you, just for like strengthening and stabilizing around your hips and everything else. And it's just, that's one of those things that I think a lot of power lifters don't really consider. And then if you spend enough time there, really strengthening that and then go back, it's going to be, hopefully it's going to be a mind blowing thing. That would be my recipe with you going forward, would be to interrupt after every, like let's say you do a meet, then right after a meet, I would run symmetry and then go back to power lift. And then I would run symmetry and then go back to power lift and run symmetry. That would be like a good formula. You can even do mass performance. You know, that's another program that might benefit you. Because you're at the level now, where your limiting factor is not, it has more to do with like these small imbalances or your body protecting itself, because you're lifting a lot of weight. So if there's a little bit of instability and your body senses it, you're losing power, you're losing strength, you're going to prevent yourself. Now, a lot of power lifters do is they try to push past it. This is when they start to get injured. And you're in injury territory. I don't mean in the sense of your technique is off, but you're so strong that if your form is off a little bit, like if your form was off a little bit and you were squatting 100 pounds, it's not that big a deal. I mean, you're squatting 300 pounds as a female. If your technique is off a little bit, the risk of injury goes up quite a bit. Magnify it. Yeah. So we're going to send you map symmetry. Don't do the last phase. Just follow the first few phases. And then when you get to the last phase, switch back to mass power lift. And I'd love to hear back from you. Oh, yeah. I'd love to hear back from you and how you feel and how it all worked out for you. Of course, that would be awesome. Thank you guys. No, and you're crushing it, man. Yes, that's super impressive. Congrats. Yeah, good job. My goal is to get to Nationals and my Federation. So I have a while to go because my weight class, they're lifting like 500. Wow. Like that's very, very top, but it's like 400 would be like getting me there. That's incredible. I got still some ways to go. And you're young. Yeah, you can get it. You're young, power lifters peak in the mid-30s, sometimes 40s. I mean, there's a lot of strength left in it. Oh, we're watching a video of you squat more weight than Adam. That's incredible. That's amazing. Man, I forgot about that. Yeah, good job. Great job. Thanks for calling. Thank you. You got it. Represent, huh? Yeah. I'm glad to. Thank you. You know, I didn't realize this. I'm so glad I asked before we started giving away. This is something I didn't realize. I didn't realize that with all these people buying our programs, we're literally making everyone stronger than us. Like seriously, though, she's never touched weight. I don't think I've ever had a female bench over 230. I don't think I've ever had a female bench. I'm trying to think if I even had a female bench like 225. Yeah, two plates. I haven't seen that. No. Yeah. Except for like, I mean, obviously, because the competitors do it, we're talking about like the real world. Steffi Cohen's and all them. Yeah, I'm not counting like, fucking super high level anomalies. I'm talking about the thousands of people combined that we've all trained and seen in the gym. Like you just, that's, and those are incredible numbers. And squatting over 300. Yeah. Yeah. It's unbelievably impressive. Yeah. I mean, when you get to a really high level, the higher the level you get, the stronger you get, the harder it is to continue to progress. And little small changes make a big difference when you're at that level. Well, especially when, okay, so like, and you know this too, it's like when you keep, when you're like very PR focused. Yeah. You know, you've been training for a long time. You've been super consistent. You're squeezing out every last bit and then you like, slept was good. Sleep was good. Nutrition was good. Program was perfect. Boom, you hit a PR. Boy, it's hard just to replicate that. It's hard to even come back. And that's why she's feeling that. She's like, oh, man, I was just pulling 295. Like, even though she knows she's done 309. Well, yeah, that's because you got all the stars to align to hit this PR. That's right. And just to replicate that is very difficult to do, much less, you know, exceed that. And so, yeah, no, she's at a frustrating place, but an amazing place. I think it's so impressive. I think of high level power lifters all did like at least 30 days, but probably more like 60 days a year. Okay, 30 to 60 days a year to break it up. Of unilateral training, they would all see such, I agree, so much better results. All right. Next caller is Nicole from Florida. Hi, Nicole. How can we help you? Hi, how are you? Good. Okay. So first off, I think y'all are awesome. I listen to you every single day when I walk my dogs around my neighborhood. I love the fact that you are starting to, at least the podcast I've listened to are more geared towards women. Which I think in every podcast I've heard, you don't have a whole lot of women followers. And so, being a woman, and I've been in the fitness industry for 12, 13 years, I have constantly been trying to build muscle, but there's only so much you can find out there to help do that. So I guess my main question is, is there a way to build more muscle as a woman to get more past that, what women don't like, that bulky face? Yeah, that's a good question. So this is really about the kind of mental, psychological blocks that you may have with the size thing growing, right? The best thing that I've ever done, well, there's two things that I did to communicate this very well. By the way, I read in your question that you're a trainer and a coach yourself. So I'm assuming you're asking this question to help you coach other people. Is that what this question is for? I'm not one of those trainers that walk around and say I know everything. I believe fitness is always evolving. I'm always learning. I'm open to learning. I don't know everything. So yes, it's more knowledge for myself and for my clients. But I mean, I get the typical, I train a lot of women and a lot of them come to me and say, I don't want to look bulky. Yeah, that's still very common. One of the most important skills that you can have as a trainer or a coach is your ability to sell your ideas to your clients. Okay? And so what does that mean, right? So like obviously you have the answers as the expert. Someone hires you. They want to get more fit. They want to lose weight. You have the answers, or at least you have more of the answers than they do. The challenge is getting them to follow them, to trust you, to follow the process, to trust the process, because it doesn't happen overnight. So how you communicate what you're trying to get them to do is everything. It really is. You have to sell them on the idea that they need to eat more calories. You need to sell them on the idea that they need to lift heavy weight and do compound lifts and avoid excessive cardio and all that stuff, right? So the most effective ways that I was able to do this was one, focus on the metabolism boosting effects of muscle building. Okay? Because what I'm doing essentially is telling the person it'll be easier for them to be lean. Okay? Because a lot of female clients, that's their number one. They just want to get lean. They don't want to have a lot of body fat, but you're telling me I need to eat more calories and lift heavy weight? Like what does that have to do with body fat, right? So I sell the metabolism boosting effects. That's what I focus on. And then the second thing I focus on is their strength, how strong they are in the gym. And we just celebrate that strength. Now, why is that second part so effective for women? Well, a lot of people don't know, especially men, don't realize just how disempowered a woman can feel when trying to do certain things in everyday life, lift a heavy luggage or move some boxes. And all of a sudden, when a woman who's never lifted weights before starts to get stronger, she finds that she could do these things that were really hard for her to do before and it feels very empowering. It's an amazing feeling. I can't tell you how many times I had female clients tell me getting stronger made them feel more empowered and secure in their own bodies. So that's it. I would focus on boosting the metabolism and feeling strong, the feeling of being stronger and celebrate that. And if you do those two things, then usually you can move them along. Now, if they mention that they feel bigger, that they feel tighter, then you got to defer back to the metabolism boosting, defer back to getting stronger and let them know this is part of the process as we speed up the metabolism. It can be so much easier for you to be lean. You'll be able to eat more calories, maintain a lean body fat percentage. So this is the process. I also think that there's, this is where I find a lot of value in the kind of the picture that I like to do. I like to have my clients take this front side back shot, first thing on Fridays, every Friday morning. And I always tell them, give me like these one month shots of just trusting the process of I know what I'm doing and I'm going to take you to the place you want to go. And what they see is like, they compare their getting bigger to their, their thighs filling out and their jeans and their jeans are getting too tight or the shirt they used to wear and other arms are filling out. And they right away think that they're getting bigger or putting fat on. But what is happening is we have you in a calorie surplus. So you're, you're filling out your muscle bellies more. Let's take a look at the picture that we took before we started this process. And then let's take a look at the picture that we did 30 days. And yeah, your jeans are fitting tired, but look at the shape of your butt and your legs. Like you're better. Yeah, we're, we're sculpting your physique right now. I can't sculpt your physique if we're always in a calorie deficit. I need those calories to help build you the physique that you're telling me that you want, but that's a process. And part of that process is us first building the muscle and building the metabolism and then doing what Sal's saying afterwards. Then I'll reduce calories and cut you and then reveal all the hard work that we've done. And a lot of times when I have that. So for, so for like, I get, understand that for clients, but when it comes down to like myself, I'm probably in that 5% of women that actually want that bulkier, bigger build. Like I have kind of hit that plateau and want to move past that. Oh, let's go. Calories. Yeah. Calories. Yeah, bump your calories. Yeah. And, and, and lift. Is there like a standstill to women how much they can potentially build? Of course, sure. Of course, how long have you been lifting, how long have you been lifting weights or strength training for, Nicole? So I started lifting when I was 18. I did my first NPC competition when I was 20. I was in between three years of bodybuilding. I was in figure. And then took it to powerlifting. And that's kind of where I found my love and what I really noticed, my body responded well to you. So combining those two both, I noticed that during my bulks, which typically I do more of many bulks than these big calories. So I just find that it works better for me. And of course, living in Florida, we're in bathing suits a lot longer. So feeling comfortable being out in a bathing suit and not feeling that fluffiness. I just feel like I've hit that plateau and can't get past. So maybe it is more, I need to go on a longer bulk or more calories. I hear a couple of things there, right? So one, yes, I mean, you're advanced, right? You've been lifting consistently. I mean, you've competed at the pro level. Yeah, you've competed. You've also done powerlifting. So you're definitely starting to squeeze a lot out. The other thing I hear is maybe you just, you really start to get a little fluffy and then you go reverse back out because psychologically, to the point of being in a bikini and not feeling comfortable getting a little fluffy. What body fat percentage do you stop that at? Or weight. Or weight. Do you know what your body fat percentage is? I mean, I kind of go based off of my floor scale. I haven't done the calibers, but I kind of know where my baseline is with that. I kind of stopped around the 28 to 29 area. And then I also try to focus more on my strength too in the gym. Like once I notice my strength has stopped, that's kind of when I start to say, okay, I need to now start to cut back down. You have dieted at the competitive level, so you as well as almost anybody that understands how to get shredded, how to do that, I may play with a little bit. Like if you were my client, I'd probably stretch you a bit and go, let's see if we can put a little bit more weight. Let's not worry about exactly what the scale is saying. Let's push your bulk a little longer. Let's increase the calories a little more. Knowing that you have the tools, you know what it takes to get shredded if you have to. So if you say you give yourself on the scale to 30 or 32 or your weight, five pounds more than you normally would, allow yourself to do that, see how your body responds in the gym. Maybe that's all it needed was that extra additional calories for a longer period of time to start to see strengths go back up and stuff like that, knowing that we can always come back down. So I would probably push you in that direction trying to do that. Also, I mean, you're a trainer sometimes, and we forget to ask this sometimes because we just default that coaches are programming know what they're doing. Do you follow maps? Have you followed our programs? Just one. I did the power lift. Okay. So that might be the other recommendation is because we're all guilty of this. Get a novel stimulus. Yeah, we default to the training programs that we like or we kind of follow the similar stuff. So you knowing your own tendencies, as far as how you kind of train yourself and program, maybe look at our programs and go like, you know, like maybe a map strong, which is really unique and different performance. I think it would be totally different from what it sounds like you've been doing previous to this. I'll say maps and a ball of advanced. You're the perfect person for maps and a ball of advanced. That I think is going to squeeze out some more muscle out of your body. But now back to what they're saying. You're at a point, you're advanced. Okay. You're at a very high level. We've been training for a long time. The best way for you to continue down this path now is to start to just enjoy the workouts and enjoy different types of fitness. So training through segments of mobility, through strongman type exercises, again, back through power lifting or body building, because each of those things is going to take your body to another level and you're going to learn more things about exercise and, you know, different workouts. Yeah. You look awesome. We pulled up your page. Yeah. Yeah. We just pulled up your page so we can get an idea of where we're at too. Yeah. You are. You're definitely. You're at a very high level. Yes. Okay. Maps and a ball of advanced. Maps and a ball of advanced was designed for someone like you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Dude, you look great. I'm going to send you maps and a ball of advanced. Follow that. And you're probably going to squeeze out a little bit more muscle out of your body. I use that during like my bulk phase. Yes. Yes. Go into calories surplus. Follow maps and a ball of advanced. And then get back to us. Let us know how it happened. Yeah. You're at 300 to 500 calories. Yes. Okay. Yeah. What's your maintenance? I said about 21, 22. Okay. Yeah. I'd say yeah, bring it up to 26 or so. 26 and our calories. Okay. Yeah. That would be a good goal is to get your calories up higher than that. For the amount of muscle mass you have on you and it's good. You got great delts and arms. Yeah. Good job. She looks phenomenal. I'm very trapped. Everybody, all the guys always ask me, what do you do for your traps? I'm like, I don't do anything. They're just genetic. Yeah. No, you have a great physique. I mean, if you're my client slash friend or what like that, my only thing would be like, hey, you just also recognize like how phenomenal shape you're in and don't get obsessed about always chasing like the next level or what like that. I think that's important in your journey too because I think you look absolutely phenomenal right now. And we are just trying to squeeze out the last bit of everything with you here. Yeah. Always shooting for the stars. No, no. Follow maps on a bulk advance and then get back to us. Yeah, I would love to hear it. I'm really curious. Yeah, you do. Okay. Let's deal. All right, Nicole. Thank you. Yeah. It's another look. There's another person. Like you get to a certain level. This is exactly like the power. It's hard to continue. This is exactly like the powerlifting girl only on the aesthetic world. Yeah. Yeah. Like she has reached a- That peak performance. I'm glad we look at the pictures too because like it's so hard to tell when you look at these Zoom calls. Like you want- Just the face. Yeah. I mean, here's again to add on what I was saying to her is like, if she's a friend of mine, this is where I'm starting to tell her too. Like, hey, like, I mean, what are your like lifelong goals? Because if you can just, you know, stay close to the shape for the rest of your life, I mean, you are killing it. At this point, when you're at that point, that level of training, that consistent, you really have to shift away. And I hate to say this because people don't like it when I say this, but you got to shift away from trying to hit goals all the time. Yes. Yes. You just have to- Now it's okay to throw them in there, but make them different. Right? Like now she would be great to like focus on mobility. Yeah, exactly. Also become this mobility. Or pick an exercise that she never, you know, she never focused. Yeah, become good at Turkish get up. Yeah, let me get good at it. Yes. But really move away from being so goal focused. She's not going to stop. You're never going to stop working out. Obviously, she loves it. Move away from being so goal focused and just love the workouts. Or a static focus. Yeah, and love the different facets of fitness because that'll take you to the end. That'll take you to the very end. So otherwise, like you're going to end up hitting the wall because you can't constantly, you cannot progress forever. You're just impossible. Is she? That's why these other programs would be great for like her to just experience different avenues of fitness and not get so obsessed with, you know, body composition. Next question is Chad from British Columbia. Chad, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey guys, this is pretty cool right now. Thanks for having me on. Just wanted to say start by saying thanks for all the content you guys put out. You got it. I've gained so much knowledge from listening to you, like fitness wise, but other areas in life, like being a dad. So it's pretty cool. Thank you. So I just wanted to start by giving you a little bit of a background about myself. I thought that would better frame the question. So back in 2017, I was diagnosed with a benign brain tumor that impacted my hormones. And my testosterone levels at that time were like really low like around 100. So under doctor supervision, I started to take androgel and then finally about a time in January 2019 that was in the normal range. Last year my wife and I started like wanting to start having kids. So we tried to wean me off the testosterone, but in this January we found out I couldn't make my own testosterone anymore. So it was back down to zero this January. At that point, my doctor put me on HCG. So now my levels are higher than normal. So like 1200, 1300 range. And those have been my levels since. I've been weightlifting for around like 10 years now, but I don't feel like I've made 10 years worth of progress like prior to this year. Last November, just to switch things up, I took up running and was running three times a week and strength training three times a week. Back in 2019, I was at a peak weight of around 225 pounds and I didn't really like the body fat percentage I was at, probably around 30%. So the next year I cut down to all the way down to 177 pounds. And I would say I was around 12% body fat. I'm not sure, just guessing. It was pretty brutal. And then this January, just slowly gaining weight over the past few years, I was around 193. So I cut down to 187 pounds by March, but I was eating like 1800 calories a day and running three times a week. And I was listening to you guys too. So I knew that probably was an ideal. So in March, I started to see an online coach with the goal of increasing my metabolism, having my body fat percentage around like 13 to 15 and being able to increase my strength. So he got me started eating like 3100 calories in March, which was a really big jump for me. And then now three months later, I weigh 206 pounds, but I'm put on quite a bit of strength in that time too. So finally, to my question, did I gain weight too fast in that three months, like around like 19 pounds in three months? Or is it possible that like my higher than normal testosterone cause most of that to be muscle? And based on my goal, and based on my goal, should I decrease the number of calories I'm eating or increase or keep them the same? Chad, in that period of time, your body fat percentage only went up one and a half percent. Yeah, it's phenomenal, bro. Yeah, yeah. According to those like in-body machine things. What describes what's happening right now? One to two pounds a week and the fact too that you're on TRT. So you gotta know that when there's a big difference when somebody is on TRT versus natural because your body is primed to build muscle basically 24-7, which everybody else is kind of this ebb and flow of peaks and valleys and... Yeah, but it's more than that. It's more than that, Chad, because you didn't go from normal to HCG, because okay, so you got your numbers up to your total, right? I don't know what your free testosterone is, but you got it up to 1200. Well, if you were at 800 and you went up to 1200, yeah, you'd notice a little bit, not a big deal, but you went from zero to 1200. Okay, so it's like when the government, like when we did the lockdowns, and then after the lockdown, I was like, look at all these jobs that we had. It's like those are the ones that we lost because the lockdowns was not the same. Like we're just coming back to where we were. So the amount of muscle you gained is because you were at such a deficit to begin with. Okay, so you fueled yourself with more calories. You got your testosterone in the upper levels versus you were probably eating too little and you had no testosterone. So that's in your body, and you already know the answer to this, you tested your body fat, you only went up one and a half percent. It's not too fast. And your question is to stay or cut or what that, I mean, this is, Stay there. Yeah, I'd stay right where you're at, I think where your, or even slowly increase. I mean, if I can increase calories and only put on as significant as you did and only put on a percent of body fat every two to three months. I mean, you're doing great. You're doing great. So I keep it right where it's at. And you're in a place right now, 3,100 calories, 14 to 50. I mean, this is like optimal health right here. Your testosterone level is in a healthy place. Your body fat percentage is in a healthy place. If you like where your weight and how you feel is in your calories, I mean, everything is in a really good place. Now it really is. I mean, what do you want to do? I mean, what's your, your, your primary goal? And then we would adjust eating and training accordingly. Right. Yeah. So I would say my primary goal is just to, I think keep increasing strength, but not get like too high of a body fat percentage because I've always been scared of gaining weight. And I think that's why I was really scared when I saw that 20 pounds in, in three months, because I've kind of heard like the max you should be gaining a month is like two pounds. No, you're muscle, bro. You're testing body fat and everything. You're fine. Yeah. And remember the point I was making for Sally interrupted me was just that you're, you're, you're primed to build muscle. When you're taking TRT that that's one of the perks of it is that you are primed to build muscle. So most of those additional calories are going to get applied over to building muscle for you. As long as you don't over like and 3,100 calories for your size, that's a, that's a good amount of calories, but it's still, you could still, you probably have room, probably have room to get up to 3,500 calories and be totally okay. So I would keep, I would keep slowly moving in that direction. That's what I would do too. Until I get to a place where it's like, this is a lot of food. I don't want to, I don't want to eat anymore. Forget the fact that I want to continue to gain more muscle or not. It's like, this is just so much calories for me to handle. That's, that's kind of, Are you following a maps program? No, I'm not currently. How many days a week you're working out? Do you really want to gain more? I work out. The coach has to be on four days a week. Four days a week? Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to send you maps and a ball. Follow maps and a ball. Do the three day a week version. Do the trigger sessions on the off days. Keep your calories the same or bump them a little bit. You're going to gain more muscle. Oh, that's, that's amazing here. Thanks guys. Yeah, you got it, man. Absolutely. All right. And did you guys, you guys trying to have a baby pregnant yet or are you still working on it? Well, I don't have, I got my testosterone at a good level, but my sperm hasn't started to come back yet. That takes a bit longer. Does your doctor have you continually to take HCG as they should? Yes. Okay. Yeah. I'm on that for now. Yeah. I don't think they'll take me off. Yeah, they shouldn't. I mean, so I got Katrina pregnant while being on TRT and the doctors just kept me on, I was on HCG at the same time. So you should be able to get that kick back up. Yeah. I'm not a doctor. I heard that Kegel's help. All right, Chad. So we'll send you maps and a ball. Okay. Follow that. Oh, thanks so much guys. You got it, man. You too, man. You got it, man. Go get a pregnant. Do it. Yeah. Right now. Right now. So I'll try. All right. Yeah. I mean, he tested his body fat. So it's like, listen. Yeah. It's only too fast if you gain a bunch of body fat. He's just anabolic right now, man. I had to make that point. I had to make that point, Adam, because No, you're right. He was at a deficit. That's a factor too. Yeah. It would be like if one of us got sick, lost 10, 15 pounds of lean body mass, then got healthy and then worked out. Well, and by you explaining that, it also explains for him what potentially might happen in the next two, three months, which is he doesn't build as much. Correct. So he may experience that where he goes now three months and now you only add say two or three pounds or five pounds. Which would still be great. Which is still exactly phenomenal. It just means that you, you had a lot to make up initially. He made most that up. But I mean, this is also one of the, the nice perks of TRT is that you are at, you are at like prime build muscle mode, which is not how it works. Most people bad night of sleep, you know, a little bit of overtraining, little stress. Testosterone drops. Yeah. Testosterone drops. And then that puts you in a less advantageous place to build muscle when you're taking it synthetically, it's your prime. By the way, a study just came out, showed that that TRT, because the worry is, does it contribute to more problems with the heart or whatever? No, nothing. No, no negatives. And that, by the way, if you're listening to this and you don't know or you suspect you may have hormone issues, go to mphormones.com. We have partners there. And this is what they specialize in their doctors. And they can test your hormones. They also work with peptides. Don't do this on your own or don't just guess, you want to get tested for sure. Look, if you like our show, if you like our information and you want great fitness information, go to AskMindPump.com. It's our AI model. It'll answer your question based on our episodes only. So it's our answer. So you know it's true. AskMindPump.com. You can also find all of us on social media. Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump. Justin, I am on Instagram at Mind Pump. This is Stefano. And Adam is at Mind Pump. Adam.