 All right, ladies and gentlemen, so Real quickly what we're gonna do is just we thought because you were all here before we went to lunch We would do one of our weekly podcast but have the audience Participate what we're taping here today is a is a radio Rothbard podcast, but we want to get audience input As we go through this discussion, we're gonna keep it to trump and riots and things like that topical things There's no riots in Orlando at the moment This is a safe space This is why we're here today in maskless America so that being said Let me introduce very quickly the panel the August panel for our radio Rothbard Line up this week. Dr. Patrick Newman who's a both a professor of economics and also a very prolific writer and a very in-depth Historian of economics, which is really something that's being lost in the profession. We have all these brilliant 20-something quants who go to Wharton or Harvard or something we drop them You know, it's like we dropped them on an island and you know, nothing ever existed before them So that's that's a tragedy and I think he's gonna do a lot to correct that as as one of the instructors in our masters program Our history of economic thought classes, which is gonna be great though Bishop is Our media coordinator also Co-editor of our website and has been with the Meese Institute for several years now was a Staffer on the Financial Services Committee in the Hill Which is the committee which deals with central banking among other things and was always a big Ron Paul Ian back in the day and someone who's very knowledgeable about the Fed and also very involved in The social media aspect of what we do And we have Lena Wong who is some of you know her from speaking in our event a couple of years ago at Bover at UCF she works for the Meese Institute in a couple different capacities But in particular she's involved with our new e4e program, which is economics for entrepreneurs where we're trying to provide platforms for people to Sort of instead of going getting an MBA or a quick and dirty online MBA You know our argument is that a lot of the central fundamental Principles and understandings that you derive from Austrian economics can actually help you in your business or in your professional life whether you're just starting or or More you know further along the way So we have a couple new platforms that are coming out there that are very exciting that she's working on and the idea here is to Have a Meese Institute take on what's happening in the world So the first thing I'm going to ask the three of you and no waffling Okay, it's two questions. It's does Trump win Whatever that looks like and if he wins is he actually installed an office in January, so let's start with that All right, well, there's no pressure here Yes Electoral College victory Yeah, he still gets installed an office Well, I've actually got skin in the game, which I think is important in this about a predicted bet on Trump winning Minnesota I think Trump's gonna win the Electoral College by more than he did in 2016 He may lose the popular vote by greater than he did in 2016, which is a chaotic possibility I think is the best for us. I think because he actually is in the White House today. It will go on You may have a I could see state delegations refusing to acknowledge it But I think that if he was on the outside going in in this current environment He would not have been seated but because he's already in the White House. I'm not gonna be able to kick him out most definitely yes, and I'd say that because when you look at the evidence that's in front of you that's happening all throughout the country and all the major Democrat stronghold cities. I mean, it doesn't matter if you're left right in between or whatever your political persuasion is There's no way that you can say oh Joe Biden's gonna win. I mean what a joke Hang on though, but don't riots and unrest generally work against an incumbent. I mean it could It could very well backfire and they could just blame it all on Trump like they usually do but again the evidence shows that all the riots that are happening are in Democrat strongholds and I think the other aspect within that is I mean Trump playing this game of the National Guard You know, I know there was a lot of people that were upset with this handling of the protesters in DC You know, I thought that again I very easy to come off as overly sympathetic to these characters as as we you know We probably should but I mean when when Bill Barr was up there in Congress and people were making this point He made you know were the people complaining, you know before or after they put out the fires at these historic churches I think that's a valid point but again just yesterday the Portland mayor Making a very public display of not accepting Trump aid for bringing in you know forcing federal Support for crackdowns on the rights. Yeah, I don't want to see federal agents within these cities me with within these states But the optics there, you know when you have Biden voters being the ones that are doing the rioting in the looting I don't think that for all of the powers of sienna You know fiery, but peaceful protest You know sort of you know people aren't buying it and there's more activity on Facebook in particular There's a great article in the New York Times of all places about this the interactions that you're getting from Facebook Over the traditional media is really showing where a lot of the energy and where the people are actually consuming this content Something to add on to this is that if you actually if you look at the polls on real clear politics Dot-com which is which can be fairly accurate in my opinion They have things that compare I was actually doing this before they they started doing this But you compare the the margins in 2020 versus 2016 and what they show is that in the battleground states in 2020 Right now Biden is leading less than what Clinton was leading by in 2016 So actually Trump is doing relatively better in the battleground states now than what he was doing four years ago now in the popular vote It's the opposite. So it's it's still like a percent You know percentage change, you know a couple percentage point margin It's not huge were Biden's doing better in the popular vote now than Clinton was doing which would signal a popular vote Victory, I mean I think Biden's gonna you know They're gonna run up the count in New York in California, especially in the other states where you can do mail-in voting in Etc. Etc. I think in the battleground states It's gonna be different. It's gonna be I could definitely see something that so mentioned where he's gonna win a lot of states I I don't know if it's gonna be closer to two thousand if it's closer to two thousand then you're gonna see much more of a Push to to switch the electoral college vote then in 2016 But in the in the battleground states people are not happy and even Minnesota is now sort of become a battleground State I mean Minnesota voting Republican is very unusual But there's a lot of people who are upset and the main thing is they're very afraid to say that they're upset At least publicly because they don't want to be shamed. They only be ostracized. They don't want to be threatened But you know again if you vote, you know behind closed doors, then that's a different story But so yeah, I think the riots normally would have hurt an incumbent but the issue though is that the Democrats in many ways have sort of owned the riots. They're trying to use those as positions of strength And they're trying to encourage people to riot and to get their Christmas shopping done early for free and in all of that You know, which I think is a problem instead of sort of taking the other option of peaceful protests, etc But so that's sort of where it where it leads to and I think that could definitely Play into Trump's advantage Well, we're we're recording this podcast today live at our event in Orlando. There's no video. There's audio only So I'm just going to describe to our audience who will hear this later But how about a show of hands from the audience if you think Trump a will win Okay, so for the listeners that looks like about an 80 or 90 percent show of hands amongst our audience of about 120 people How many think he will then indeed be reinstalled in office come January See, it's a little a little less maybe like 70 percent maybe 60 or 70 percent then so it's a separate question I can't help but you brought up Ted wheeler. Does everybody know who he is Mariport landia? Which is a great show a great a great commie show starring Fred Armistad is that his name from used to be an SNL And where they and so there's a mayor in that who used to be the actor from Twin Peaks Kyle Something or other and he does a great job of being a progressive mayor in that show but anyway, Ted wheeler from Portlandia lives in a high-rise condo building and Just last night even as we speak His the lobby if his building became a KOA campground of sorts for protesters who came in and linked their arms With chains or something like that to prevent the police from removing him I guess they're demanding his resignation as mayor and his commitment to defunding police or eliminating police in Portland So as far as we know on this Saturday morning, I think those people might still be in the lobby of his building waiting for him when he gets home from from work today, so The German term Schadenfreude You get what you get But so so let me ask this Scott Horton on his show y'all know the great Scott Horton and others have suggested that maybe Mr.. Biden won't make it to the finish line in November show of hands if anyone thinks that that's that Biden will not make it to the finish line So a good, you know good healthy 20 maybe 25 percent. Let's let's ask the panel. I Think he'll make it in some way or another so I sort of alluded to this in my talk I guess can now an elaborate when I speaking of William Crawford or William Henry Harrison William Crawford was the presumptive front-runner in the 1824 election and he had a problem though about a year before he had a very debilitating stroke where he was left sort of part Blind part daff you could do hard you hardly you know hard trouble moving speaking etc And they said well, we're gonna keep trying pushing for him, you know his backers You know so it's sort of that type of he ended up losing he got third in the electoral college vote He beat Henry Clay, which is how do you know it's pretty embarrassing? I guess and William Henry Harrison was the famous guy who won in 1840 and he was up to then the oldest president And he wanted to be very macho and he gave a big speech in the rain Very long speech and he and then he got sick and he died about a month in office So I think you could see something more like that or like oh it just happens a couple months after he's got some debilitating condition that no one knew about Things like that. I think he'll make it Before then unless something happens in the debates if they even have the debates I know there's been discussion about that not happening, but I think he'll make it maybe You know, I mean health-wise as always and that's a wild card with with Biden I think one of the interesting things is that making the decision of Putting Kamala Harris on the ballot. I think was really I mean Joe Biden is his entire career has been made up of gaffes I think this is a particularly dangerous one, right? I mean like it's very easy to see, you know, you know with During the Trump era, you know, there's been a lot of conversation about the 25th amendment Right and about the need of replacing a president for for lacking his his middle faculties I mean Kamala Harris might be the greatest sociopath on that democratic debate stage She she she displays this to this day Again calling Joe Biden a racist and I mean I know the New York Times will fact check that oh She never actually used the word fine, but implying that Joe Biden was a racist at least palling around with racists and that she was and that Believing his accusers they said oh laughing it off on cold bear. Oh, well, that was just a debate What you're gonna know if he had pointed picked out Susan Rice as his VP for example, I actually had money on that That was a losing bet. I didn't make money on the LP predict it's those so it's good on that but the Susan Rice would have been a comforting blanket, you know, no matter what his mental state Like he would have had a weekend at Bernie's situation Having Kamala Harris as your VP when thing when the polling data starts getting bad I think it will I think I think Kenosha is a turning point when the polling data starts getting bad You're gonna start seeing leaks from that camp Taking out Biden because Kamala Harris it will do anything for power She has done that in multiple ways throughout her entire local campaign. I Think he still has a chance Even if it is a slim one, but again Kamala Harris I mean, I don't know how the leftist the regular leftist like the normal I guess if you can call him normal That are reasonable enough and can think their way through but I don't think they're gonna be supporting Kamala Harris because of her background real as a cop just locking up minorities for minor offenses Especially with the younger Democrat socialists where they do not support Joe Biden at all At least the majority don't and I don't see him getting any far further than that But he's gonna need a lot of help from his team and speaking more competently and actually getting up there And I don't know who knows maybe they'll try to do a deep fake video of him Well, let's poll the audience for another one Show of hands for people who believe the United States will continue to exist in its present political format 20 years from today It looks like 20% thereabouts. Let's let's start. Let's start with Lena this time. I think In the next five years will probably get worse before it gets better like a lot of things are usually are I think more people start to wake up and try to find alternatives to Politicians and even down to their local governments even banking once they realize hey There's gonna be another crash once that happens. They're gonna see like a conglomeration of like all the other things just Like coming together into what job not believe I mean it already is pretty much But they're gonna try to go towards cryptocurrency and look into the blockchain technology See how they can govern themselves with blockchain It's such a new technology right now. We have so much potential with it We don't even know the full implications or capabilities of it That's just how new this technology is but it shows so much promise if you just research into it Google it Blockchain anything related to cryptocurrency People want alternatives. They're looking for they just don't know where to start and I think that's gonna be the next revolution I do think there's an important point there and that the financial You know the financial situation is the total wild card in the way that that completely disrupts politics is don't think the way that trends are going I think are very fascinating because you have two scenarios that play out here One is that Biden wins in November, which is still I'm making all the polling You know, he's you know is the perceived front-runner even in betting markets If that happens, and I think that the threat there is actually a rise of a genuinely left Politically leftist party in the way that they see it right you have you talked to a lot of Bernie Sanders people They think that Joe Biden and be a Barack Obama were moderate Republicans I think the scary thing about the Biden administration is that the same way that Trump's agenda was kind of Stifled by the lack of talent pool when he comes into a personnel's policy You're gonna have a lot more young woke leftists that believe in critical race theory that are embedded within the executive branch under Biden But I think you could still see through legislative frustration with I'm Pelosi is not going to do what AOC wants We think Nancy Pelosi is crazy. She's a far-loved San Francisco radical in our eyes She's far too moderate for the growing squad in the squad unlike the libertarian ranks of late have added members And that's terrifying, but the other side of it though is that the Republican Party after Trump is Terrifying you've got Tom Cotton who's got like the deadest eyes and politics You've got the return of the Bush era neocons and Nikki Haley and and Marco Rubio You've got Josh Hawley who's kind of a weird mix within that I mean, you know my my personal favorite on the typical landscape And I would have been shocked if you'd have told me this five years ago is Matt Gates up in Pensacola He was hit this great populace anti-war young energy thing Don't really understand the thing with his his adopted son, but you know here there Great. I mean you got the best documentary Republicans ever gonna get on HBO So, yeah, there is this interesting wave of new Trump stuff I don't know if that's gonna last but the fun thing is that if Biden does manage to win in 2020 And you have a financial crisis in the next few years. Who is the front-runner for the Republican nominee in 2024 Donald J. Trump? You sort of want sort of tying what those said earlier about Kamala Harris being a sociopath Remember, I did compare it to Woodrow Wilson. So, you know, we have there's that kind of similarity there I guess there's sort of a Jeff's question. I mean, we can't forget about the Douglas Commonwealth, right? You know the everyone's heard of this the district of Columbia is sort of the Democrats are pushing for the district of Columbia Which obviously an extremely oppressive and exploitative name With Columbus and you know all that Is is now going to be moved to be another state, right? So in this will be of course with its very small population will vote always according to the popular vote, etc So that is something I could see happening very quickly that would You know in many ways drastically change the country already have and that could be in just simply a couple years I don't think in 20 years we will be The same together at least if we're the same as a country the country itself is going to be the government will be drastically changed for example something like the Electoral College could go away something where even the senators with the The two senators per state now technically you really can't change that because it's actually built in the Constitution You need every state to agree to that so it's even like an extra amendment It's like a super amendment and Alaska is never going to give that up But you know you can see him voting for the you know that the popular vote etc something like that really would change The country could be you know much different It wouldn't really technically even be the United States of America But I could see the country breaking up before then But possibly even from things like that actually to build off of that point if I may That that erosion of political norms I think really is it is one of the biggest products of the Trump era and I think it's one of the biggest changes because I mean The Constitution has been a dead document for a very long time It's brought up occasionally in the Supreme Court You know in a good way fun on gun rights and freedom of speech But for the most part the structure of the Constitution has been Perverted beyond any sort of vision the founding fathers what has kept the the kind of the framework there has been Political unwritten political norms. It's been the filibuster that has preserved the relevance of Making the Senate a larger body It has been the the this this the taunt that we have and not this aggressive expansion of States which we obviously saw kind of the build-up the Civil War you know that's that state race between free and slave We were going to see that change and I mean when you have Barack Obama They're not an opinion writer at Vox, but Barack Obama himself use a funeral of a civil rights icon You know someone who the media would make out to be a modern-day saint Use that platform to call for these changes That that is a whole yeah, we've crossed the Rubicon there. That is something that Trump is done With the way he has conducted himself from you know as people that do that did not see that pre-trump era as being something We're celebrating Given all of the the extravagances that we've seen of this progressive neocon Uniparty establishment that that made up the end of the 20th century. I'm not you know necessarily, you know Moan Bemoaning that point. Yeah, I think that this this is what allows the opportunity for secession and nullification and all these exciting trends But again, we are living in a profoundly different environment Because of this breakdown of political trends than we were just you ten years ago Do you think we could succeed without another Civil War? I think we can and I but I think the only question this the only way this is gonna happen is with blue states leading and We've seen this I think play out vividly during the last few months the boldest leadership Again in our sense It's bad leadership But the boldest leadership the the state leaders that have had the most audacity to tell the federal government Screw you and your and the policies that you're recommending. We're gonna do it our way have been blue states You know, it's Gavin Newsom out there calling California a nation state. It's not Ron DeSantis It's not governor the governor of Texas. It's Gavin Newsom. It is Andrew Cuomo Evoking basically the ideas of Calhoun on states rights in the way that they're dealing with the crisis up there The boldest leadership the state rights level that we have seen in the last 20 years has come from blue governors under Trump I wish we had seen this under Obama. You had a few kind of a gadfly a state legislators try this There's a great great state senator of Mises Institute fan He's got a Rothbard enemy the state shirt and took all of our online classes the state senator Tim Davis in South Carolina Great guy great leader He stood alone and simply saying that the state of South Carolina should nullify gun rights If you can't get the majority of the state legislator of Cal of South Carolina to take that stance against the federal government You're not gonna get it from red states, but blue states could do that which I think a Trump re-election Particularly right now that could really I think end up opening the door to political secession in organized way because I don't think you're gonna have a lot of Republican military members wanting to shed blood just to keep California in this blessed union so Let me ask you this for a show of hands. How many people have or are considering moving because of the Political landscape and COVID and everything else happening in this country Relocating your home. Wow Well, that's that's a separate question how So so that looked like about 30 40 percent So the question becomes in terms of personal secession personal freedom what kind of steps people might take Does anyone plan on voting in the November election? Okay, so that's that's over half that looked like something like 60% so Let's talk about political activism and and whether it's effective Whether it's just and and I'll open with this is is is libertarianism dead? No, I don't think it's dead I think as always throughout history it has to be applied you have to you always have to change the tactics So, you know, you're an inflexible ideologue, right? But you're a tactical opportunist You know, that's that's how you move the ideas, you know, if something's not working You know, you have to change how you're applying it and how people could be open to a what are the most Salient issues, you know, what are the issues people are talking about? You know certain times you might need lean one way other times you lean the other way But the main goal is that as long as you're always on the path of liberty You're just trying to apply it in different ways. That's what counts That's what libertarians and classical liberals have been doing, you know from from the beginning because you know, you have this talk, you know in like 1820 or 1920, you know, it's libertarian. They wouldn't use that word but that says dead and you have people say Well, you know, you got to change the tactics. I mean, I don't think it's dead I think it needs to be really I think like what though said a lot of the political angst a lot of Trump Making a mockery out of government and politics sort of, you know, the emperor has no clothes type idea, you know, that's very healthy I think with the decentralized Atmosphere even if you have like West Coast states or even states breaking up into other states Which is certainly a possibility you might have particularly on the West Coast, etc Something like that which might be oh the West Coast wants to break away so they can be more interventionist, you know You wouldn't say the libertarian solution is no you have to stay with us You know, you would say yeah go, you know, it'd be great and make it better for us And then of course the laws would reduce the interventions there. I mean, I don't think libertarians dead I think it always just has to be Given the unfortunate reality of how the way the world works and the majority of the population always just has to be applied You know, you always have to just change your tactics basically I Think movement libertarianism is dead I think this idea that there's a libertarian third way that is beyond left and right It's sterile. It's garbage. Well, what it really is is a form of political autism You know, it is libertarians valuing consistency on their own individual values beyond what is the actual practical Nature of politics, which is persuasion, right? You can be philosophically consistent. I hope that you are that's that's great That's a great thing to strive for as an individual But in terms of politics is about persuasion It's about the ability to build coalitions and Justin Amash is the best example He is perhaps the truest form of libertarianism in DC and he's also a politically autistic member of Congress He is alienated every ally that he that he's had and that's a shame. It's a sterile approach So I mean, I like Rothbardianism personally and Rothbard was a political populist and I think that you Libertarians understand the mechanisms of the market, right? This is great quote with my favorites from Louis von Mises where he talks about you know the market mechanisms and that you know You have a lot of artists that hate capitalism because it creates a lot of trivial fiction Detective novels for the semi-barbarians among us, but it doesn't stop great works of art to be accomplished Well in a democracy where only one winner, right? There's only one product being made at the end of the day That's gonna be the product that is that Appeases the masses well the masses are these semi-barbarians that Mises is talking about most people aren't aren't gonna read human action They're not gonna read these massive books They absorb politics at a very superficial level and so we've got to find a way of making these ideas Grounding and civilization amenable to these people that can go very very narrowly and Trump with his drain the swamp America first You know, you know, you know, he's he's ideologically ideologically inconsistent. He's a transactional guy You know, he's gonna be as good as the people around him But his message of hating the what came before I think is something that libertarians have the opportunity to build on Again, you Matt gates. I think is a great example of how you can do really good policy by talking Trump And I you know the HL Menken quote of you know, at some point every every good man must Spit on his hands and right raise the black flag and start slitting threats Well, you know, you might replace that the the black flag with the Trump flag that so many boaters are popular with I think that is a libertarian strategy that has that can bear the most fruit in this current political environment Libertarianism isn't dead at all. There's still a lot of political activism among college students and young people in general You still have a lot of think tanks non-profits. They're still alive and well well-funded People want to invest in these ideas and keep these ideas alive and they're spreading And I think it's going to spread more when the next crash comes Because people are going to be looking for answers on why did this happen? Why is the economy in this way? How did we get to this point? And unfortunately? It's only going to take a bad situation for people to get more interested in liberty I mean I can Name a couple of individuals that I know of that came to liberty because they were looking for answers based on their Finances that took a deep dive during the OA crash and they were wondering why why did this happen? And that's why we have these libertarian think tanks is to help answer their questions and bring more people to liberty Even people as far left as cultural Marxist. They will at least a few of them might be curious if they're open-minded enough to Investigate our ideas at the very least maybe not adopt it right away, but at least plant that seed of doubt in them So what about the criticism that we're in sort of post-persuasion America that people are dug in and that In those point that we seemingly haven't been effective in creating a not necessarily any sort of Significant minority, but some sort of groundswell that would move the political landscape in a more libertarian direction Yeah, I mean it does seem that way because again we have the right left this binary thinking where people most people only think we would have just two choices and politics and there's like no nuance between Unfortunately, it's going to be staying that way for a while, but I think if we just Changed the way we market liberty in different avenues and so just like you said political autism Because that's not going to win much people long term. So If more and more people out there aren't adopting more liberty ideas, I think that's just a signal in the market telling us We need to rebrand ourselves What's interesting Lee Lee is a little more optimistic though. It's a little more bombastic And guess which one is running for office soon That's though he keep an eye on him. He's going to run for something down in Panama City I think Statehouse or something but you know, I'm just curious about this With what's happening in Kenosha This young man who took his rifle up there to ostensibly defend private property Ended up shooting a couple of people and is now himself charged with I believe first-degree murder which would Which would imply a degree of premeditation There seems to be a big split on this a lot of people and it's not just right left, I mean This idea that you should never take a life for mere property You know Patrick good is this kid good or bad justified or unjustified? I need the Snickers so From what I Know I think he was justified. I think he was justified. I think sometimes not There's not sort of a magical like oh you should never take a I mean again I'm not advocating taking lives. I'm not advocating resortia But like I mean if it's in self-defense or protecting property or you're feeling threatened I mean that type of part of the reason why these situations keep happening is because you keep on You know vehemently attacking people who take that option or no one thinks that anyone's ever going to do that because you'll just get a whole media Firestorm and everything but you know, I think having situations like that where yeah I mean there are people who have guns who are not just simply these crazy Shooters or they're they just want to you know, they're they're racist or they're just trying you know They're trying to protect themselves. They're trying to protect their property You know, there are people who are genuinely worried about massive riots that are Vandalizing private property that are threatening people and that are in many ways Supposedly anti-fascist but are really acting like fascists like in that sense. Like that's you know That needs to be stopped somehow and I'm not advocating that thing But you know from what I understand from the evidence. I mean it he wasn't out of line Doing that and sometimes when situations escalate, you know, they escalate when you're participating in these protests You're destroying things or protecting things, you know, you have to understand the risks of where things are going That's why people are choosing to do that and why people are not choosing to do that And I think the kid was not only justified. I think he was a hero and I don't take that lightly I mean I mean if you found yourself in a Mises Institute event chances are you've gone, you know Perhaps hung around in libertarian circles and like you know You've seen perhaps seen some people kind of in the militia mindset and you know a lot of them mean well, but like You know that there you could you could easily see how these would these people would be like overly enthusiastic to Shoot at someone they think is a threat, right? You know, I you know that that's very I could easily see that possibility playing out I assume that was the case initially, but when you actually look the facts of the case and you see this is a 17-year-old kid Who apparently works in Kenosha, right? So this this whole oh he crossed state lines. It was this community thing. He works there He went to go clean up graffiti to volunteer to do that He was then asked to help stand guard and protect a business when the cops had failed Repeatedly, right? Well, what is the priority of state law enforcement? The priorities is to protect the courthouse They let car dealerships burn. They let the elderly men get beaten for this for the sin of protecting their businesses And so here is a guy who stood up and did something and it's a shame that that ended with two deaths and somebody losing their arm But yeah, that's what you attack a guy with an AR-15 with a skateboard and your chances are that's not gonna end up well You know, these are people with records of violent behavior in the first place like I mean that doesn't justify You know, but like he did nothing wrong And and the fact that you know, you know the conservatives move a conservative movement used to be you know fine By what you standing authority history yelling stop, you know now we're seeing figures stand up They if the conservative movement is going to mean anything and not continually just be a speed bump For the progressive cause then what we need are patriots Protecting their property armed while yelling stop and we saw this in the Klauskis in st. Louis We see this with this kid, you know, this is the you know taking property rights seriously get that foundation of Civilized society That's what the if the right is not willing to stand up and protect with deadly force of necessary property rights You know, then we've already lost the game So, but let me follow up on that Lena if if our if our goal is persuasion and either we're not doing a good job But enough or you know, the other side is persuading better or whatever it is You know at what point is self defense defense justified at what point are we the imposed upon you know, we're we're we're force might be Necessary, I mean, we don't like to think about that in America Yeah, it's an unfortunate situation that you have to think about but I Push comes to shove if it violates a nap going back to basic principles then yes Lethal force is justified. I mean think about in Kyle case the kid the 17-year-old kid in Kenosha He had a gun drawn in his face And a skateboard that was about to be hacked into his neck. Do you think he's going to Say, oh, you know what? I'm just gonna be a sitting duck, you know, I have this error 15 in my hands and just Show it off or is he gonna shoot and save his life? I Mean, it's one or two of the other choices. I Think he was wise in choosing to save his life and possibly other people's life his comrades life He was with a group of other militia men who were guarding other properties in the area and Who knows what could have happened if they were You know thinking of all the other situations that could have happened You know, maybe they ran out ammo or maybe they they were over also overrun or maybe they just Weren't properly armed, but he was the one armed. He could have saved his own people's lives as well When I think one thing that's important that we must think about again, you know As people that reject this mob rule is you know, this should be the last-case scenario, right? Yes, an individual taking someone else's life in that situation should be the last-case scenario And so how do we prevent that from becoming the norm? Well, we build Institutions designed to protect property to to protect society to to help mitigate These issues and the problem is is that the institutions of America have been largely hijacked over time by the left, right? This is you know, not just the government, but it's been true with with churches with big business with banks, right? You know, yeah, the corporate Majority of corporations in America are more willing to fly the rainbow pride flag than they are the American flag And that's an issue, right? So we have to build pair of institutions to prevent us from having a decay into this environment And I think one thing that would be very positive I think a very Rothbardian libertarian approach to this is that we need to see a revival of kind of these militia a Private security not reliant upon State police mindsets because we're seeing a failures across the country If we do not have communities willing to stand together and protect ourselves Then you know we can't rely upon the state to do it and the more that we can decentralize this this this action and utilize these Incidents to to motivate us and to prepare and to better Establish Agreements that can keep the peace in the future. Hopefully we'd have fewer situations like this because this is the worst-case scenario Well, I know nobody in this room owns any firearms. I know But if you were thinking about someday owning a firearm Right now might be a good time to go out and do that because I think if you look at the people in this room today and you look at You know, what's happening this country of most If we're allowed to say most most Protesters are peaceful most gun owners are peaceful this caricature that the left insists on holding of everyone who has an AR-15 is You know, there's some outsized assault rifle that that they think they're a want-to-be command or something It's just it's just so laughable and it shows you yet another Deep divide in this country between gun owning people and non-gun owning people because it this character come this caricature arises from just a lack of knowledge of what firearms are there there's tools You know, it's like having a hammer in your toolbox or something. That's and different tools for different jobs So we're almost out of time, but I want to take the audience out I want the all four of us to just you know, give us your best case for optimism going to 2021 What's what's good that's happening? What can we be optimistic about? Well? My book on cronyism is coming out in 2021. So that's really leading the pack But I think again, there's there's a lot of people who are who are upset at the way things are Being done. There's a lot of people who now Politics and sort of the prestige of politicians has fallen into sort of just come, you know come people have complete disrespect I think one way or the other whoever wins some side is going to feel very burned very Ostracized and obviously while you're not hoping for that feeling, you know You're optimistic that that feeling can be channeled into some sort of Decentralization or or something like that I think, you know, there's a lot of you know people of all age You know, this is these aren't ideas that are dying off, you know, just old people You know, there's a lot of young people people who can carry these these ideas in the future I think that's something To look forward to I mean, I think it's gonna be hard To sort of put the clothes back on the emperor so to speak and to have people be respectful of government and Sort of under, you know, just have a very oh, this is okay You know, etc. I think over the past 20 years say from 2020 and especially over the past five ten years you've seen a big change and I think there that's the room where These ideas can grow and hopefully be turned into action The most optimistic thing is that the 20th century is dead, you know The political order of what we had had that the establishment of the progressive era as a bipartisan agreement Is dead now that is not to say that we're not gonna suffer again If you know that the threat of progressivism is dead absolutely not It is embodied perfectly well by the left, but I think that you're seeing it down the right Trump killed the Bush The best example of the death of the Bush dynasty was not actually Jebs humiliating defeat But it was when Adam Putnam who had spent his entire adult life campaigning to be governor of the state of Florida Lost against a run to Santos around no campaign outside of three Donald Trump tweets. Okay. This was incredible So so I the 20th century is dead the Bush dynasty is dead, you know, the We could have some dark times ahead but at least it creates the opportunity to create good ones and At least the majority of the people in this room are living in what I think is the best state To prepare for the future, which is Florida where not only do we have a pretty good legislature? Not only, you know it being red, which you know, there's a lot of horrible red red governors out our governor's governments out there, but there's a Albert's Anthony Sabatini was a state rep down the road like he Eno's Rothbard, right? So there's a few like genuinely good leaders here and we because of last election It requires a super majority to raise our taxes So even if we have a blue government here or there, it's gonna be very difficult to at least pick our pockets I think going into 2021 people Realize what they took for granted in 2020 and past years such as you know going out with friends hanging out In bars and restaurants and public places and visiting family. I think people would Consider twice and visit their grandmothers more often Realizing, you know anything could happen um, especially the events the craziness of 2020 and Perhaps be more closely knit with their family and friends instead of being isolated and depressed uh, especially with college-age students or young people in general The reason why we're so depressed and anxious and I think it's because we're just so isolated Since most of us go off to college in our early years Away from the family friends that we grew up with in our small towns that we lived in And then all of a sudden being plunged into a very isolating environment It's very new and scary for them. They don't know anyone. They don't really know how to socialize properly so I think There's common ground that at anyone everyone has just realizing you we're all in this together and being more understanding more Compassionate with one another one more empathetic as well and Yeah, just realizing what we're missing out on which is just a human connection and also being more health conscious Washing your hands properly instead of just rinsing it with water and then just drying it off um, and then realizing, you know A lot of the surfaces we touch thousands of people have also touched And perhaps may be looking into How diseases are passed which is most of them can be easily prevent if you just wash your hands even with daily childhood diseases such as measles or smallpox and stuff like that and most of them is because of fecal to hand contamination Which means people are not washing their hands properly Well, we we definitely want to see an end to kovat. I I'll leave you with this. I think the the kovat crisis and especially the the shutdown of travel Has brought us back to a realization that you know at the end of the day all crises are local You live where you live your physical body your physical person has to be where it is and even if you're some wealthy person like bill gates You know, you're still dependent utterly You know on your house and electricity and food coming into your house and gasoline coming into your car Maybe you can't just go traveling and if you're jeff bezos Even with all of his wealth, he's got a mob of people outside his condominium in in washington dc You know telling which would be effectively preventing him from leaving. I suppose if he tried to leave if he's home He's probably got a bunch of houses But I mean we were reminded that everything everything is local at the end of the day when things shut down It's your house It's it's the food the people The sustenance the security you have right around you And and I think that that really brought home for a lot of us the the notion that we have to sort of slow down and and start taking things in and making a little more notice of our neighbors and Really living our principles a little bit more with our families and I've had a little more time with my 14 year old this year At home than I normally do so that sort of thing is is a good thing and We we want to first and foremost Thank all of you so much for coming out today in this in this cove environment we're thrilled to still be having live events to still have people interested in the world around us and Just to invite all of you to come up to our weekend clam bake in Jekyll island in october you can find out more about it muses.org and we really appreciate seeing you today and thank you so much