 What is the aim of all politics? Do we think that politics is merely an idea to build a road here, a bridge there, or a railway somewhere else? If any constituency or colony has only that political ideal before it, it will not be fulfilling the duties of the party that people elected to represent them and as the citizens. Good viewers, brothers and sisters in Islam, As-salamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. Welcome to our new show, Politics, the very heart of Islam with Mir host Ahmad Ali. Now, inshallah, this topic will be discussed with my dear and esteemed guest, Dr. Zaheer. As-salamu alaikum, doctor. As-salamu alaikum. How are you? Alhamdulillah. Alhamdulillah. Now, doctor, before we dive into today's topic, I would like you to provide background information about this book and about the author. The book is by Aitullah al-Azma Sayyid al-Maham, Sayyid al-Sadiq al-Shirazi. It's called, the original Arabic is called As-salamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. And the translation is called Politics, the very heart of Islam. And this is the first translation in English. And it addresses the issue as it's evident from the title of the book. I believe you're the translator from Arabic to English? Someone else translated our proofreader and edited it. Yes. It's translated by Salim Russia and edited it. And it addresses the issue of politics in Islam. Do we have politics? And what are the role models of leadership and politicians in Islam? Of course, the author says the only role models that we can have as far as leadership of the Muslim nation and politics is concerned are none other than the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa alayhi wa sallam. These are the leaders of the nation and another of course. Because these were the only two who governed the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa alayhi. He governed about 10 years in Medina. And Imam Ali sallallahu alayhi wa sallam was at the seat of government for about four and a half years in Kufr. And the author addresses the issue of politics in Islam through these events, if you like, or the history of the government of Imam Ali while he was the head of state and history of the government of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. He was the head of state. So the book is based on their teachings and their practices while they were at the helm of government. So basically the information just provided us with, we can get the notion of this book trying to provide the reader or the listener the notion of what principles are laid out by a true Islamic government. Now if we were speaking of an Islamic government, do we in Islam have the notion of politics and what is the relation between Islam and politics? Yes, we do. There are various texts in the Sharia or in the religion of Islam where it specifically addresses the issue of politics, al-siasa and the role of the leaders in the religion of Islam like the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa alayhi. And the role of the twelve Imams after the Prophet who were his divinely appointed successors. It states that one of their roles is the role of sassat al-ibad as they are called. They are the leaders or the shepherds to Allah s servants. And not only in Islam, we have it in the teachings of Moses for example. It says that the sons of Israel were shepherded by their prophets. That's a hadith from Ahlul Bayt alayhi wa sallam. So yes, we do have the notion of politics in Islam. Imam alayhi wa sallam for example, when he appointed Malik al-Ashter as the governor of Egypt he said in his letter to Malik al-Ashter, choose your governance from amongst the people of piety, knowledge and politics. In another statement Imam alayhi states, appoint those who have the most comprehensive knowledge and politics. And that being the siasa. And it says the best of politics is justice. So we do have, it is found in the teachings and in the religious texts, the notion of politics. And as to what is the relationship between politics and Islam, as the author states in this book, there are two faces of the same coin, two faces of the same notion. Islam is politics and politics in Islam and as you said, they are separable, yes. Okay, so from that a lot of people now states that they wish to separate the church from the state. Now in this modern day world that we live in today, and we do see Islamic governments being established here and there, but is Islam or will Islam be separated from politics, from power or will it stay together? I mean if we do look at how the people are ruling or how the so-called Islamic governments, without mentioning any names, how they run their governments. Is that a notion of Islam or should Islam be separated from those governments? Well, I mean you mentioned a number of very, very important things and to address these points to take us a long time. Starting with that saying religion and state should be separated. That was probably because of the, if you like, dark ages when the religion in Europe was corrupted and people were sick and tired of it and that's why they wanted to separate state from politics, state from religion or religion from politics. Unfortunately today we have in many so-called Islamic countries, at least countries which are predominantly Muslim population, the governments of those Muslim majority countries, they are really not acting according to the teachings of Islam. They have a government, they have certain rules and regulations, and they probably imported those rules and regulations from other countries, East and West. So we cannot say that these countries of Muslim majority countries, they are Islamic countries or Islamic governments. There is no way they are Islamic because the only way if you want to have an Islamic government is to act according to the teachings of Islam and governance and on politics and on economics. When you start doing that, you may be able to say that we are implementing the teaching of Islam and we may have some kind of Islamic government. Islamic government means freedom of speech. Now if you have these Islamic countries with governments and so on, if you have freedom of speech then you can claim that they are Islamic, but unfortunately in most countries we don't have that. So Islamic government means freedom of speech, it means dignity of the individual, it means non-violence and unfortunately we don't have that. On the economic side, an Islamic government means that we don't have all the various taxations that we have today. We have VAT, we have import duty, VAT being value added tax for those who are sales tax, as it's called in some countries. We have import duty, we have inheritance tax, these are not Islamic. In fact they are anti-Islamic in the sense that the Prophet peace be upon him and his holy family, he prohibited specifically these things. He prohibited VAT because they used to exist in the pre-Islamic times. He prohibited inheritance tax, he prohibited import duty, and other than Khoms in Zakat you don't have income tax. So these are the features of an Islamic government. If you have an Islamic government where it doesn't levy VAT, doesn't levy import duty, doesn't levy inheritance tax and various other income taxes, sorry various other taxes including income tax other than Khoms in Zakat, that can be called Islamic. If they are implementing, if they are levying these taxes then they are not Islamic. See the thing is, various taxes, same tax, various names. What the thing is, if you look into Islam, we have Khoms in Zakat as just mentioned, isn't that a form of tax? It is a form of tax, but we don't have other than that. But tax still exists, no matter what, tax within Islam still exists. Tax exists only in the form of Khoms in Zakat, you don't have VAT. You don't have inheritance tax. The Prophet specifically said zero rate for inheritance tax. So yes, we do have some taxes, but we don't have all the other taxes. We don't have import duty, we don't have VAT, we don't have inheritance tax, and so on. So basically you are asking what is Islamic government, and on these countries that we have, the Muslim majority countries that we have, especially in the Middle East and North Africa, on these governments, Islamic governments, if they implement the teaching of Islam, they can be called Islamic. If they are not implementing the teaching of Islam, whether on politics side, whether on economic side and other aspects, then they cannot be called Islamic. So technically, by defining or by differentiating between which country is Islamic, which is not based on their actions, are there any references onto those facts? As I said, there are many traditions or hadiths from the Prophet, and the Imams of Ahlul Bayt, who are the divinely appointed Imams, the Prophet appointed them as his successors, the 12 Imams, on instructions from the Almighty. We have hadiths from them and from the Prophet to state these teachings and define that these are the teachings of Islam, and if anyone wants to adhere to the teachings of Islam, then they will be classified as Islamic. So touching upon the leadership aspect for politics in Islam, who are the role models in this field, and who embodied those teachings of Islam? Yes, the role models are none other than the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and his 12 Divinely appointed successors, and after the Prophet, the first of his successors, Imam Ali, came to rule after a while, of course, and he, both of them, they embodied the teachings of Islam. Not only their teachings, but their practices are proof for us, for the teachings of Islam to be implemented, and they implemented it in the best format, and we need to endeavor to learn the biography and the way of life of the Prophet, Muhammad, peace be upon him, and Imam Ali, as the first Imam, and try to, as much as we can, implement those teachings. And as I said, those teachings are, whether in terms of politics, when you see the biography of the Imam and the Prophet himself, peace be upon him, they used to lead, their policies were to give freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of belief to all the people, no matter what background you had. They used to invite you to Islam if you weren't Muslim, but at the end of the day, the choice is yours. They used to, one of the most important aspects, all of them are important, one of the most important aspects of their teachings was forgiveness. They used to forgive even their enemies. And they used to never use a pre-empt, whether in battles or with individuals. Imam Ali, for example, used to say to, Abdel Rahman ibn Murad, that you would kill me. And Abdel Rahman ibn Murad used to say that if I am going to kill you, why don't you kill me now? He says, I can't do that. You haven't committed anything, any crime now. So even though he knew that, he would be the one who would kill him. He never took a pre-empty action to stop him in any way. The Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa alayhi, Prophet Muhammad, he was the target of assassination for a number of occasions, more than a dozen. The ones that I have researched in my very limited research that I've done 13 times, and I'm sure it's more than that. But he always forgave those people who attempted to do that. Not only that, on the one before last, when they were on their way back from Ghadir al-Khum, after the Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa alayhi, delivered the sermon of Ghadir, and he instructed the Muslims to pay allegiance to Imam Ali, as a divinely appointed successor of the Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa alayhi. On his way back to Medina, he was the target of assassination, and he was saved, and they did not succeed in their assassination plot. And he knew them, and he instructed Hudayfah, who was his companion at the time, Hudayfah al-Yamani, not to, he saw them and instructed them not to reveal their identity to the people. He even sort of kept it secret, and he didn't expose his enemies to that extent. The Prophet used to forgive his enemies and his would-be killers, which eventually, when they arrived in Medina under a different plot, they eventually succeeded in killing the Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa alayhi. So these are the people who embodied the teachings of Islam, sallallahu alayhi wa alayhi, Amir al-Mumineen Ali ibn Abi Talib. And for example, in the case of the Battle of Yemen, the camel, when the defeated army were running away, he instructed his people, his soldiers, not to chase them, just let them go. Or if they caught some of them, he used to tell those, promise that swear that you wouldn't fight me again, and he used to swear and used to let them go. Even in the case when the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa alayhi, or Amir al-Mumineen, or other Imams, had to face their enemies at the battlefield, they never started the battle. They waited until the enemy started the invasion. In terms of defense, instead of beginning the war? That's right, yes. They never, even though they had come for themselves in the case of Badr, they had come all the way like 300 miles or more, 350 miles from Mecca to Medina to fight the Prophet, when the two armies faced one another, the Prophet instructed his people not to begin the battle. They should wait until the other side begins. The same was with Imam Ali alayhi sallam, and the same was with Imam Hussein alayhi sallam. On the day of Ashura, when the companions of Imam Hussein wanted to start, he said, I do not like beginning the battle, so let's wait until they start. So when they started throwing arrows and spearheads and so on at them, Imam Hussein said, you can begin now. So they didn't believe in pre-emptive strikes? Okay, but inshallah we'll continue the discussion on why only the two, Prophet Muhammad and Imam Ali, were the ones to lead and not the other Imams, but this will be after the break inshallah. So respected viewers, do stay tuned for inshallah presented with a short break, and we'll be back shortly, so stay tuned. Biography of the Eminent Islamic Authority, Grand Ayatullah Sayyed Sadab Ash-Shiairazi. He was born on the 20th of Al-Hijjah in the 1360 of the Hijrah, in the holy city of Karbala, Iraq. He was raised and cultured in a family that was renowned for its history of learning, striving, sacrifice and morals. He received his specialist education of Islamic sciences, at the hands of eminent scholars of the Hausa, until he acquired a distinguished degree of HDH. Through his relentless endeavors, he developed himself the quality of continually seeking knowledge, along with unremitting observance of paitin. Tiredly promoting the teachings of the Elanbaid, peace and blessings be upon them, disseminating their culture and defending their sacred laws and sharia. He has written numerous works in various fields on different levels, ranging from politics, economics, history and ethics, to specialist works of Hausa students on such topics as Feeqah al-Otul, which is also known as Jurisprudence, that total more than 80, Sayyid Sadaq Ashurazi has been teaching at the Hausa for more than 40 years. He is distinguished for being accessible to the people, directly dealing and meeting with various sectors of members of society, listening to diverse views from different spectrum of the community. Equally, he is distinguished for his humility, respecting the young and old, and also for his tolerance in regard to insult or evil with kindness and courteousness. He is renowned for his independence and for his policy of boycotting despotic governments. He over-observes hundreds of organizations and institutions throughout the globe, for example those that address social issues such as marriage services and social reforms, those that address humanitarian matters such as clinics, orphanages, financial organizations giving interest-free loans, intellectual institutions such as centers for research and studies, seminaries, houses, libraries, as well as religious centers such as mosques and Husseiniyas. Respected viewers, brothers and sisters, once again, As-salamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Welcome to the second part of tonight's episode. As me and my dear and esteemed guest, Dr. Zahair, talk about the politics in the heart of Islam. Welcome back, Habib Doctor. Thank you very much. Now before the break, we talked about a few aspects of politics within Islam, the notion of politics within Islam, other things that relate Islam to politics. And you mentioned that Islam and politics are the same coin. Two sides of the same coin. Two sides of the same coin and they are inseparable. You cannot separate Islam from politics and politics from Islam. Now we got to the point where you mentioned the role models of Islamic politics and we mentioned how Prophet Muhammad and Imam Ali are the two governors that talk about that. Now who and why is it only these two? What about the rest of the Imams? These two are only governed and the rest of the Imams are, you know, and so the awaited Imam. Well, we use, Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Rahim, we use the example of these two individuals, the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and Imam Ali, peace be upon him, because they actually govern. So we use the examples of their policies and governance as an example of the teachings of Islam and our Islamic politics and Islamic government. The other Imams, due to the circumstances, they did not, although they should have been, they did not assume the government and therefore we could not see their practices. Of course their practices would have been exactly the same as those of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and Imam Ali, peace be upon him. But of course from those Imams we have a great many teachings in these respects and of course in various other respects. In these respects, and we do use them, especially Imam Bakr, Imam Sadiq, peace be upon him, and of course the various, all other Imams. But we rely and the author of this book, Politics, The Very Heart of Islam, extensively relies on the, not just the theoretical aspects, that is the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and the teachings of Imam Ali, peace be upon him, but on their practice during their period of time when they were in charge, when the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was the head of state for about 10 years in Medina and Imam Ali, peace be upon him, when he was the head of state for about four years, four and a half years in Kufr. And the author of this book cites those practices and the policies that they upheld as the role model for us and the proof of the teachings of Islam in practice. Now speaking of the book and speaking of the author, the dear viewers will get the chance to read the book and it will be placed in the description box below so you can see that on our YouTube channel in the description box to access the book. Now speaking of... I don't know whether you can say that this is also available online, the PDF version on imamsharazi.com and probably various other sites. That's what will be in the description box. But speaking of history of politics, if you will, and modern-day politics and given the fact that corruption has taken over, if it's safe to say, taken over the modern-day politics and the modern-day politicians, is there a comparison between modern-day Islamic politics and the true Islamic politics or modern-day politics in general? Well, I mean you mentioned about corruption in modern-day politics. Corruption aside, modern-day politics is inherently at fault in many respects from the, if you like, I don't want to say from the Islamic point of view, because they say we don't believe in Islam, but from the point of view of many people and many thinkers intellectual in the sense that there are, for example, great many taxes. Taxes being levied left, right and center, which are unacceptable. But this is the system. As I said, corruption aside, it's inherently based on these things. In Islam, we don't have these taxes. And I mentioned tax taxes is an important issue because basically you're taking people's money away. And as I mentioned in the first half, modern-day systems, regimes, whether east or west, and unfortunately on their footstep we have the systems in place in many so-called Islamic countries or Islamic governments, or Muslim majority governments, let's say they're not Islamic governments, they have inheritance tax, which we don't have in Islam. So when you, for example, when you compare the democratic regimes, governments in the west, for example, and the Islamic governments, true Islamic government, forget about the ones that so-called Islamic, they don't have VATs, they don't have import duty, they don't have the vast range of the income tax, they don't have inheritance tax. Basically, Islam wants to keep the money in the pockets of their owners. They have earned those monies and they should keep them. But the other regimes other than Islam, corruption aside, they are based on these things. So you can see that anyone would want, does not want to pay these extra taxes, whether it's in the form of VAT or import duty or inheritance tax. But Islam, so you say if you want to compare them, this is one comparison. Of course, Islam highly values the dignity of the individual, highly values the freedom of the individual. The sort of freedom that we have in Islam, you don't find again in corrupt free democratic governments, for example. In Islam, we have this notion of Al-Ardullillah wa-le-man'ammaraha, or that is free use of unused or disused land. This is one principle issue which we have in Islam which we don't have in any regime today, in any democratic country today. Land belongs to government or it's a crowned state or what have you. Whereas in Islam, the Prophet, peace be upon him, said land belongs to Allah and whoever develops it. Al-Ardullillah wa-le-man'ammaraha, or man'ahya arda maitha tanfahia lah, qada'al min ad-Lahi wa-rasoolah. Whoever revives a piece of land, it is his and this is on the command of Allah and his messenger. But we don't have that. So these are the basic teachings of Islam as far as governance and as far as economics and as far as the welfare of the masses is concerned. So this is the difference between the two. The difference between the two. Now, in conclusion, it's safe to say that although modern-day governments do have some freedom, do have their regulations and their rights, but all these fall short in comparison when it comes to Islam as you mentioned and as you mentioned to the teachings of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and to Ali as his successor. But I would like to thank you very much for joining us tonight. May Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta'ala give you the ability to continue serving at El Bayt. Respect the viewers, brothers and sisters. Thank you very much for tuning in tonight. May Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta'ala continue sharing his blessings and mercy upon us. Wa-salaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. Wa-salaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.