 and welcome to what are you saying hashtag ways where we talk about topics in the news as it affects us all. I am Chinnello Anine and I am joined by my amazing co-anchors tonight, one in the studio and one via Zoom. Hi Diola. Hi Noma. Good evening. How are you ladies doing? The holiday is ending today. How do you feel about that? Hi Chinnello. Hi Diola. Hi Noma. Okay, so the holiday ends today. We're back to reality. Although for me, I've not had a holiday, per se. But yeah, the Lord is my strength. How are you doing? Can I look back, Chinnello? Right. It's, the holidays for me are just seducive because I'm still working and we are not resting. So really, it's not a holiday. In fact, if they won't bring some level of, not depression, but somehow you're dampened spirits because you can't enjoy what others are experiencing. So yes, I feel you on that. It is all. Okay, so tonight we're going to be having a very interesting conversation and achieving free and credible elections in Nigeria remains challenging as every election is fought with voter apathy, rigging, vote by voter suppression, violence, among others. With the fragile state of our democracy, the role of the judiciary in resolving election disputes cannot be overemphasized. In alliance with Enough Nigeria, would be comparing Nigeria's presidential election triple now processed to that of Kenya's. So, Dilla, I guess you have some things to share with us tonight. Oh, yes. Okay, so I mean, this is part of the campaign for policy, you know, just to get more people involved in the process. And so, of course, on the backdrop of the election that just happened, there were a lot of issues on, you know, all the sides of the divides and we're hearing talks around petitions and all that. But it's interesting to know that before you can even, you know, file a petition, you know, in Nigeria's case, you know, it would take about 21 days, you know, from the declaration of the results by the Independent National Electoral Commission as against Kenya's, which is seven days, once the result has been, you know, announced. And the second to compare is now, of course, when it goes to the tribunal, the tribunal courts can only render a verdict, like 180 days after, you know, the submission of the petition to determine a verdict from the first day of the petition was filed, again, in comparison to Kenya's a pre-trial conference will be held eight days from the date of filing the presidential election petition. And that's just, that's so interesting. Which would even make sense, because, I mean, sometimes you usually don't allow it to lie for too long. Yeah, linger for too long because of all the, you know, emotions attached. You just want to quickly put back, you know, the country together on all sides of the divide and then just find a way to just move forward, you know. Okay, Unomah, I think Unomah has more information about that for us. Unomah, please go ahead. Yes, just to continue from where Jola stopped, we have still, in our comparison with Kenya, we have the fact that the verdict for Nigeria now, that the verdict of the tribunal court of appeal can be appealed and determined at the Supreme Court within 60 days after the tribunal judgment, while in the case of KF, immediately after the pre-trial conference hearing of the petition takes place in the Supreme Court, the decision of the court is pronounced 14 days from that day the petition was filed. And this is very interesting because it means that people can get answers speedily. Comparing it to Nigeria again, the total petition has a life circle of 240 days, while the total petition has a life circle of two to one days in Kenya. So once a petition is filed, it's one day later, it will be a total submission of that petition and this will be done within 21 days. And I'm wondering why it is that we have to take this long. I think that's where in the judiciary we've had issues because we cannot get judgment passed as quickly as possible. And we have so many pending cases in courts for so long, so a lot of people have even given up hope. And in the case of the political cases that are involved, it's going to take a period of time to be able to get the verdict, which will may not even be as useful by the time it comes out, because every other thing would have continued to go on. And those who feel that they have not gotten justice, that justice has not been served will be many. So this is a plight of Nigerians compared to Keyans. And it's something that we really need to look into in our judiciary system. Continuing from where you know, I like what she said about us looking into our judiciary system, right? We need to start to now build trust in the judiciary because a lot of people don't trust the judiciary at this point. I remember when we had that conversation sometime, I think two weeks or so ago on the show and we asked, okay, so do we think that the judiciary is going to take, you know, be fair? And I said, I really can't, I really can't tell. But then we need to build trust in our judiciary and how can we do this? The tribunal should be live streamed. Let's try the presidential tribunal. So what we should usually do is, I mean, it might be expensive, right? For us to do a live live stream and all of that. But then, or rather the cost of CVA time might be expensive. But then how about we explore the judicial channels? Yes, the judicial media and then we can, people would see, okay, this thing is happening live on direct and then even trust it's better. And so I really do hope that the Nigerian judiciary will look into this and I think as a whole, as a matter of fact, would take necessary measures to ensure that these differences are looked upon. Let's not also forget the office. You know what, go ahead. Yeah, sorry, Chinello. I quite agree with you because the judiciary at this point needs to show transparency. Yes. A lot of people feel begrudge. A lot of people feel that they cannot trust the system like you rightly said. So even more and more reason they have not to trust the system. So I think the judiciary needs some level of transparency to show that they are really working for the Nigerian people. Okay, this information is coming from the office of citizen in office enough campaign. And let's not forget we spoke about the chat but the other day, you can know your elected officials, the governors, the senators, House of Rep, State House of Assembly, local government chairman. And all you need to do to get started is to send hello via WhatsApp to 017006381. Just send hello via WhatsApp to 017006381. So let's dive right into our conversation for tonight. Here's what we found as today's quote. It doesn't matter when we start. It doesn't matter where we start. All that matters is that we start. And this is by Simon Sinek very well said. It doesn't matter when, where, what matters is that you just get it done. Some are of the opinion that Nigeria and perhaps the whole African continent lacks good leadership. Another school of thought believes that followers will fall in line when quality leadership is provided. Today we are discussing leadership and governance catching them young with honorable Raphael Ikwim Minum. But first let's take a break to see what we found in the news. You're still watching Waze. The International Day of Multilateralism and Diplomacy for Peace is celebrated annually on 24th of April. It seeks to reaffirm the UN Charter and its principles by resolving disputes among countries through peaceful means. The day acknowledges the use of multilateral decision making and diplomacy in achieving peaceful resolutions to conflicts amongst nations. It was established on the 12th of December 2018 through Resolution A.R.E.S. 731-7 and was first observed on 24th of April 2019. I mean this day literally speaks for itself already. Peace is all we need. I remember that story that you took about the Sudan. I hear that they've called a truce for the Eid Mubarak, the Eid holiday. I hope that after the Eid holiday, they don't go back. Anyway, what did you find for us in the news today? Oh, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I did see some very disturbing numbers today in the news where I saw Nigeria's indebtedness to World Bank now at $6 trillion in Naira. So the story has it that Nigeria's borrowing from the World Bank has risen to 121.46% under the regime of the president, Major General Mohamed Buwari and this number owed the World Bank Group rose to $7.64 billion which is about $352 trillion using the exchange rates of the Central Bank of Nigeria which is about $460.53 per dollar. As of April 23rd today, this is the highest it's risen in seven years and this indebtedness to the United States, Washington DC, Lender rose from $6.2 billion that dollars which is $2.9 trillion Naira as of December 2015 came to about $6.42 trillion Naira as of December 2022 and these numbers are very very disturbing for me because they were owning this much. I don't know the whole of Nigeria, I don't know. I don't know what the plight of Nigeria will be and what the intention is to repay this money. That means the government that is going to be coming in has a lot of work to do in this regard. I would just leave it there, I'll just leave it there, but these are very disturbing numbers. Do you know why I'm even laughing? So I saw eight sweets where someone said okay so this is how much we owe world back. Let's divide it by the number of people so that means everybody's doing eight thousand something there. I said please send your account number, I pay my own base now. You know it's funny but everything. This is a coping mechanism, it's a coping mechanism. Go and help us, go and help us. Okay so I remember the last week you know we were talking about Sudan and we had mentioned that you know countries that started evacuating people and we had also gone further to say that we hope that the Nigerian government you know will do something about Nigerians there. Well this is good news because today I saw AAPIS ready to evacuate Nigerians from Sudan. Now this is from the office of the CEO and here it's saying that AAPIS a private airline in Nigeria has disclosed its readiness to evacuate stranded Nigerians in Sudan not East Africa for free if the federal government can get them to a safe and secure airport in any of the neighboring countries. I'm especially happy that a private citizen you know would take up year is doing this. I mean again sometimes we just see rays of sunshine when Nigerians rise up to the task. I remember that in 2019 AAPIS had done the same thing in South Africa you know when they had airlifted stranded Nigerians there during the xylophobic you know issue. So we're praying our prayers are still with the Nigerians in Sudan we're praying that they'll be evacuated safely you know and they'll be back with their families in good time. So well done well done well done. I must actually say well done to Alayna Iyema because he's actually been doing a great job evacuating people in times like he did that in South Africa he did that in Ukraine when there was that he evacuated students back to Nigeria and then now we see him doing this again in Sudan. Well done we just really hope that this also extends to AAPIS delaying their flights. Anyway so my what's in the news is Lagos man stabs naval to death over parking space. Many of the Lagos state police command have arrested a 41-year-old man who allegedly stabbed his 33-year-old naval identifiers Pablo to death and this happened in somewhere in Baderie, Ajah where he had reportedly had an altercation on the parking space on their streets. I mean this is quite a pecksy issue to ever go ahead and do something like why why why I can imagine how the entire situation might have found out okay so he came back he was looking for where to park he found out someone else had parked in the space he probably got into some sort of tussle and then one would take get you to that point let's say when you talk about anger management what would ever get to that point where you start somebody over such a trivial thing and it's such a it's an interesting coincidence that we're talking about peace you know today I mean people need to understand that violence is never the answer it's never we must always find reasons we must always first of all throw the line of peace it's a conflict resolution it's it's just I mean too many things just gets crazy in the heat of anger and then you go home regret years later you're still feeling regret and so yes peace peace peace peace peace peace yeah okay so we'll go on a quick break and then when we come back we'll continue our conversation for tonight see you after the break