 So committee I ask Jim to join us as you can see from the agenda what we're doing today is Getting introduced to our major vehicles We're going to be working with we will have some standalone bills One of which will be what we talked about briefly yesterday that after school task force bill Jim Next week Maybe I'll look at it at the break. Okay. Yeah So we'll have a couple of standalone bills. We may move some of the Individual bills we've got on wall, but these that we're going to take a look at today Are either from last time or they're designed as vehicles to move things that we come up with So Why don't we start with and I just want to recognize the chair of the state board John Carol John John is Gonna listen today and then on Tuesday. He's gonna offer us Some general thoughts and introductory thoughts on reorganizing the board. I just want to commend him He came into the job of Charing the state board and immediately set about with the board and re-envisioning what they do And I think there have been calls from a lot of quarters to have us take a look at the state board And he was first to the table on that As it's only right. So thank you for that job. So Jim, you want to start with the powers and duties of the state board, okay? Okay, so Dr. Jim Gamer of the council we are looking at this Tracting question with 2777 And it's a very long goal 13 pages the The purpose is to transfer various duties and responsibilities from the state board Education to the secretary of education to permit the state board to focus non-term strategy and high priority educational issues Before we go through this Because it's so long and I keep up for this to orient you. Yeah, what's in this adult structure? So on page one you see a line actually Mine starts on one Is that Line H1 Starts on 113 Okay, page one lines 1011 there's some reader assistance here So this is the main section the bill transfer a certain responsibility to the state board The secretary We'll go through that but I'm going up to page 10 Line one and two you'll see a line that we conforming changes to Current law it seems to be a safe chapter three the next section here He was good. There's a chapter In houses Yeah, so this next section here goes to conforming changes to that one chapter Okay, we're on page 10 20 dash 113 pages I'm going through Page one is the main section here. There's a rear assistance here right here Next major section is about a page 10 Forming changes to the chapter on the state board of education Then if you go up to Page with page 25 line 16 You see this means conforming changes to a lot and it's not 16 except for chapter three Just thinking about the other changes in the top 16 Then if you go all the way to page 75 and look at Line five Informing changes to Vermont laws other than Then if you go up to page 79 This is an appendix, which won't be in the final ball. So 39 I will not be in your ball It's just provisions in Talks is team that referred to see a boy that were not changed so you can see what's not changing That's what is changing ice thing That's all right, so we're back to the beginning So I would put this one the first section So the first section to come on the line 12 is Mending the section on the state board's powers and duties So this wouldn't when I read See a board shall establish and regularly update a long-term strategic vision for the delivery of educational services in Vermont Advise the joint assembly the governor and the secretary Education and high priority educational policies and issues that arise and act in accordance with Let's live and go to our own end dates including the adoption rules If I could Jim just go back everybody to page one to what was crossed out. Yeah, I think it's instructive to look at what we're replacing so it It did say state board shall evaluate education policy proposals Including timely values that policies present presented by the governor and secretary engaged local school board members in the broader education community and Establish an advanced education policy for the state of Vermont. So when When this committee move the bill to make the Department an agency and to make the commissioner a secretary we had a big long debate about where education policy mistakes should be made and The At that point one of the fears was that there would be confusion and there would be two policy making Areas actually three the legislature the secretary and the state board and Stephen Morris who has been chair of the board at that time Came away from it feeling like the state board was still the premier policymaking Organization in the state the the new secretary came away with the understanding that the secretary was and the legislature came away With the feeling that the legislature was So part of what I see happening here is to to On the Motive of the board itself to say we're not we're not the primary Policymaking organ for the state that's divided between the legislature and the executive branch. We're here to Serve it as carrying that out and also helping develop it but not producing ourselves. Is that correct? Okay You know see throughout this draft in the strata is it takes away the board's Responsibility to implement execute those things are listed secretary. Yeah worse. It can hire higher Process do you want us to comment or ask questions about these? Wait, okay, I think yes, we go. Okay, so then my question is you cross out engage local school board members in the broader education community When they still need to do that with the duties that they are left with is that implied or should that be left in I See and this is my reading of it, but I see here it says An act in accordance with legislative and guantorial mandates some of the things we've already asked the board to do Require that they interact with So for instance you know the act 46 Mergers are done now, but if as has happened in one case so far There's a merger that wants to unmerge. They have to come to the state board and they have to make their case so that's already a mandate that we've given but As I read this the state board is not going to absent something that we've asked them to do Go out and work with with boards to develop policy absent our direction So how would they come up with a long-term Strategic vision So this Good next page page 2 and the cut line 9 through 11 They have a story to work still with the local But they take out a headline Okay, yeah Okay, so going from there next page go this out various specific One two and three remain the same so one is to establish by your commissions To us have authority to work with school districts Three is to examine and determine all appeal so many to it those remain the same Then what is struck is things moving to the secretary tip of four Four is to review a comment on the agency's budget. That's being struck all together As I'm moving anywhere. Everything else that is struck from here. It's moved to secretary and and just to clarify for people knew on the committee or Heather I in this area of government the state board used to be in an oversight role of the agents Which hasn't been the case for quite a while So part of this is getting rid of that Vested Jim the law that makes it seem as though the state board is supposed to be reviewing the agency's budget Yeah, you know by the top line to you about when I talked about adoption of rules Yeah, the rules of all this or just as rules as needed. That's just so we're better that they can Okay, so number six on bottom of page two make regulations Seven And then Education So what is here? Are the support of an authority to make rules in the following areas? the operation and administration of the safe word education quality standards in-pat school approval special education correct technical adult education school accountability 3k SCU and school district organization Acquire six proposals and lastly Jim Lennon says including on nine. Yeah, is that Is that including as in limited to this list or what would it have to say including but not limited to Indicate that there could be others including always It always includes always And these by the way track first is the support rules are your place So these things also they have authority to do rules on these Is this also saying they shall do rules on me like they shall have The obligation to do education quality standards for example When I look at the beginning parts is I don't see any about education quality standards But yeah, they can do rules on education quality standards Which makes me think that we're telling them to do it Yeah, so that's a question so let's go back to the game Patient see a board shall then said in addition to other specific is The board shall adopt the rules So And then on page three Jim Where it says adopt rules colon For the purpose of carrying out and within the limitations of legislative intent That's key and it's making explicit something that was argued again and again during the rule 2200 Fight that we had because the the leadership of the state board at that time felt again that they were a primary policy creation body and that they should be able to On their own come up with an area that they thought should be changed and then roll out rules to make that happen in other words to function more like a legislative body and What what this proposal does is to very explicitly Say that your rulemaking before you situate within legislative intent as demonstrated in statute Okay, and then on case four line four Review rules opposed by the agency of education prior to pre-filing The officials with the inter-agency commission on the street rules they get to review Then Well promulgates of implement my chains there Pre-k. I said for kindergarten online not in This is about student performance And on lastly 13 through 15 Advising this is a substantial food Stands for being a little proficiency for students Such to a level or a little bit or so determined. So not specifying read through Okay, um 11 is The existence still there so this is about Educational standards for admission into graduation 13 is moving to the secretary. This is about the educational literacy It's five like three Dr. Looks for schools that still I do so it's this for the support system moved Yeah, and and maybe not right now, but at some point it would be good to know Just holistically your opinion Jim on What does this change and what doesn't it change with regard to the relationship between the board and independent schools? Or is that something you can answer easily? well the board already has Nothing changes there What's losing power not gaining power here? Yeah, so they have the power in this draft here to Drowson in that schools as they do currently. Yep. I was changing Which we'll get to is the approval process when you're proving and in that school That execution part is to lose the secretary. Yeah, other than that Then all of the other oversight function that they have Yeah Oversight function. I think the overseas more sector in terms of the schools more of the rulemaking framework is the board. Okay Then Like for number 15 It's that criteria governing the establishment of a system for the receipt deposit counting and disbursement of all funds by issues The school districts with the secretary likewise 16 This is a technology telecommunications availability of school districts Likewise number 17. So I'm sorry Jim. Yeah, so when you say repealed What you're doing is popping these out putting them in the title at under the duties of 17 is report in all the other conditions statewide That's what the secretary Likewise six 13 number 18 sharing that from our students Have access to actually hold this week's opportunity That's when the secretary Uh 19 number 20 This is the state council for interstate contact about her children. That's the secretary And lastly number 21 On page seven This is the report to the governor John assembly So this is changing you say on the competition of each process of education So that basically Yours we're going to say port to do these now we're going to come to the secretary's duties Which are basically taking all those things some of those things end up in different statutes actually So that last thing about the current condition and future prospects of education The Are they still right now? They're limited to K pre K-12. Did you just point out where they're still limited to? So this I mean this sounds current condition and future process of education to me implies also early childhood education and Higher education so that they are they will because right now. They're just K-12 well, this isn't very specific actually so Let's see if we're involved in pre K's involved in Secondary, so I'm not sure what this report says actually in terms of the scope I don't know. It's out. I mean my impression of the state board is that they've been mostly pre K for 12 And that there's a pk-16 council or something that does Our education Okay, so this report that currently it does and this stuff that this draft would change that K-12 By the scope So the secretary's duties Like a secretary shall it's not that rules adopted by the state board And their size of his powers and shall So these here are good thing again, but they basically looked at it from what we just struck out Do these you're leaving 22 that we're already in statute. Yeah I wish I was the only ones I would direct you to Number 24 is their rulemaking So this is everything else not And then Like 20 mp7 says Secretary has to submit rules proposed by the agency to the state board part of pre filing And that said the secretary shall submit those rules to the state board for review Within a time frame that comment is the state board's review of the proposed rules and the secretary's ability to respond So let's just give And then 25 approved it's that the staff and the school has approved So as I mentioned before see a board adopted the framework the rules and then the execution is 26 27 28 29 Okay stop there Go on but next is the whole chapter on the sick war in the backstage move around Okay, so let's let's stop there questions for Jim and Again Any questions for Jim From what you just So is there two reports of the board new report and Secretary doing See I launched other reports, but like to Senator Hardy's question about that So the secretary on page seven is doing Secretary is a statewide report right so so number 20 on page eight 9 18 That's the annual So wasn't there one like that for the See a board does In future prospects For the two separate reports that seems like That they just kind of coordinate They can disagree on the future prospects so Jim Question, you know the board's role in terms of an independent school that has red flags financial red flags stepping in Investigating like with the compass school. I'm assuming that still stays with That that is more of an execution function as opposed to a framework question. Yeah So Okay And fair enough, I mean part of the thinking here is to consolidate policymaking and Execution but also the state board has never been staffed and so Tasking it with all of these things that require We're used to having staff Little we have If you imagine running But the state board has had to operate with borrowing from a we from the beginning so Probably It's an open question and John's gonna talk to us about that there is still a request Part of the state board that they be giving some kind of staff Whether this is the moment to do that or whether you do that at all remain open questions But I think it's the fairest things the board's point of view that in order to accomplish their work effectively Especially for asking to do a report That's repetitive on another report. I happen to do something repetitive without staff I Don't know if we should have each of them do a report but they haven't do it And they don't have the resources to do it right brings up another question and then in effect ALE often lines up doing a lot of Clerical functions so Yeah, it's just not a good system To this point about staffing We're moving a bunch of things out of the state board And we have the secretary coming in to speak to that Is there anything in the board's authority deals with infrastructure facilities Or that infrastructure or facilities buildings is that Unless they wanted to add it to the report about the current condition of education life But education is being hindered by the facilities. Well, so it's in the construction and binding on stuff We're just a condition of the buildings are Safety safety. Yeah, I mean with that all be Certain the construction capital fine on that stuff Okay, so with that said and Noting no further questions. Let's put this to one side until Tuesday, and we'll haul it out Eventually, we're gonna have to go through every one of these pages Just like when we rewrote the liquor title in Economic development, we worked like dogs on this 300th page Then and it was it was really just moving things around but if you don't have your eye on it Everybody One thing that I would mention here is so many exceptions the statue are effective in this bill Some of the things you're working on other bills Okay, so it's not in my job to What people can worry about Okay, what's next? Okay, now we're going to miscellaneous. Okay, so let's start with this That's 19 budget education. I just want to Remind us remind me partially missing the last section. So a lot of what happened at the session was The reasons in this women's goal or from that education goals got thrown at different everything We're going to So this whole thing a lot of this is not a typical appropriations So on page 92 fresh case here So you had a whole Piece that was about a pilot program or BTC adopt our social TV programs in So that got done Then next page is circle going to college while You've had language that we deal with what happens to records colleges that they Bar business that didn't pass last year, but the broken college piece Yeah Then I would go up to page 183 K through 12 education to a bunch of sections here and get with the The school finance Yeah Oh So we have the main original look at here is On page 185 25 Talks about moving out by one year the deadline for having the school finance In place in the previous pages So And then I want to skip up to page 187 Which is amendment act 173? You moved out rulemaking by one in the year for special education rules And then likewise On top page 188 You moved up a one-year when the census plan begins I will note though that there are a number of other dates that did not get moved I need to move to comedy that okay. I'll come back And then Page 29 is there a six-year district language And then there's some aqueous of stuff so it's got small school grants language that dealt with papers field Got in here Okay Yeah, so this is 0407 So the first section one is Your ass past language in the scent last year What's the other records when a college closes, so this is your ass past version house had a different version If there's some funny changes there, but this is your version over here Okay, so just the same as last year This is walkthrough. It's here first Section 2 is this is transitional provision That requires That if a member college term is this membership is so hope for a year after that We're helping all the records Had wasn't in your bill, but you had a second you had a separate desire to close both Last year so put that here All right, we were getting rid of that. Yeah, and then on page six This has been hanging out for a couple years now, but this is the Technical change to small school support. This is the Bobby star Bobby star Shipping that three years ago, but didn't make your decision. Well, could me if I'm wrong it went into one place But it needed to go into correct. This is where it has to go in. Yeah Okay, so it's not in law currently now actually currently law is about this see this is inadvertently proved one of the most useful things that we've had in all these bills because It was a one-time thing for Bobby, but it's stretched out over three years So I've been able to secure his support Yeah All right, and then you asked me to put in flames at school on this policy So obviously that's actually asked me to add and then on the next page Just to come you asked me for a placeholder on efficiency based education. I'm not sure that will be yes. Yeah, that's a placeholder for whatever we do coming out of the proficiency based learning at location hearings that we're going to do Sorry, yeah, that's from the red Red Cross or the American Heart Association Can't remember. Maybe it's the American Heart Association they they wanted a You know as people often do they wanted a mandate or Wellness programs or wellness director with funding that would put these people in place In our early discussions, I said I thought it was you know More than a little pie in the sky to expect they were talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars to institute mandatory wellness programs So what I've suggested is a kind of voluntary version where we have a model school wellness policy and we Which we have now but this requires a score of 85% on this wellness school assessment tool as opposed to what we have now which has a much lower Score, so we have a very weak model policy now This would require a very strong model policy with the idea that in our discussion We might find ways to make it more attractive to schools to In So that's there as a Kind of placeholder language those stakeholders will come in make the case with data Well, let's at this point questions there because The only thing that I would be interested in starting What when Jim has fielded questions, would you want to get into the witness seat and speak to this Okay, let's do that just as a way of teeing it up with the idea that so we have to do something on the stop I don't know if you guys feel the same urgency. I do but you know we had a couple of colleges go down and I Would say all educators are that they're not the last and the state is not prepared For exactly how we're handling that had this past we'd be in a better position But not in a fully prepared position. So I do want to have another discussion about what we do in the event of Collapse You know It's a sad thing for that community, but it's also worrisome for the state general So questions for Jim on the whole framework of this This is a meant to reanimate some stuff that died in the dispute with the house last year I guess what I would say is this year I'm going to try to discipline myself to not put anything into the miscellaneous bill It's a good rule But you know there was a time where both sides were willing to compromise and Dave Sharpe and I Passed one miscellaneous bill that way we each got something that the other didn't want because otherwise you're kind of You know each side is held hostage to the ones of the other who will wind up with a much more homogenized bill But I would prefer that this year to losing another miscellaneous bill So I want to view this as a more safe vehicle than we have so if we have something that's Controversial or that the house doesn't like and we know it will try to do a standalone committee bill for that So I'm thinking broke you'll yes So this was the dual enrollment for procures But but um that decision is going to get handed down and it could well be this session So if you remember this this was whether it was constitutional to to omit parochial schools from the dual enrollment program and This committee's feeling Going back a few years has been that it's probably unconstitutional So my my sense is that he would probably lose that loss But but if it turns out that we lose the loss and we are in fact directed to fix it by the courts then the question is going to be With the house who's going to do that? I imagine they're not going to want to They find the whole concept distasteful So in that case we might draft a standalone bill and move it, but otherwise we'll leave that to one side until a year from the court So if Jim Oh, yeah, go ahead. Is this in here just because you said that the dates that we changed here affect other dates No, the dates aren't the dates that were changed last year were complete If you more changes, so I'll go through that after the storm. Yeah, so this isn't going to be under this line Okay, so if you wouldn't mind switching out during just work on so that Finally can talk to us and then come back So welcome And of course, I'm kidding by calling it precisely language What I what I mean by that is originally it was your language Now you have no no To be clear not stately plus which we did last year But the original stately was three years ago now or so four years ago Which was your language which you thought to the committee And I understand now you have a better way and we're thinking about how to do it So with that said, okay, Susan Stitely for the record for the Association Vermont independent colleges Yes, I respectfully disagree with this no longer reflects the stately Anymore it definitely as you said last year as more of a belt that says letters approach making sure everything is covered since that time We have had three colleges closed Marble college is also no gene in the state all those four colleges have taken care of their student records College of St. Joseph Southern Vermont College and Greenmount College So that People are being very responsible and the the Bromleyton College incident was just you know a one-time unique situation your call we originally proposed the Memorandum because the state was proposing a bond and you know the bonds are based on financial sustainability and For the small colleges that could present a hardship But now that things are moving along smoothly and we really think you know that each college be responsible for itself Well, we're an association. We're not responsible for what each member does So example if a farmer went out of business or did something illegal the farming Association would not be responsible for that So we would prefer that this bill starts Section a one be struck and start at section to a which places, you know more Innovation and burden on the colleges than had been before that they have to submit their man much earlier they have to know what they're born much earlier and You know that that they manage their own records and if they don't they're still is the state can still take them to court So I think that that plays a significant regulation on the colleges we also have Avic has passed a record retention policy to get all the colleges on board with how we're saving our records how we're Classifying them that's and as I take it that's not a mandate. It's a set of guidelines Yes, it's a set of guidelines But all the presidents from all the colleges have agreed to that guidelines so people are trying to conform to it We also have a committee that is looking at academic records at different institutions And you're trying to you know prepare and help any institution So we do have a response feel that we have a response We did help me by the college that isn't going out of business and ensuring that their academic records are in place But we don't think it should be regulated to the association so let me Come out from different different perspectives, so We're talking about five cases including Burlington College So one way to look at it is that in 20% of the cases the state has been left holding And I know you're you're seeing it as the last four we weren't But so this is all driven by the worst case scenario So we want to make sure that in the worst case scenario the state's not holding back So if we were to strike section one and just go with suspenders get rid of belt We could have an institution that Collapses very quickly Doesn't follow through on these steps The state top tuts and you know does its thing but within a month. It's announced that they're bankrupt They're not going to be able to take care of the records Then we're back to where we were I don't know if you noticed in the in the language that We just looked at from the budget But we paid a hundred and twenty thousand dollars to the state college system to take on Burlington College records So it initially cost us forty thousand then we just paid a hundred and twenty so the state for Burlington College paid a hundred and sixty thousand dollars and that $120,000 is a down payment. We're going to pay more going forward. So How can the state? Make sure that we don't wind up on the hook My my feeling continues to be that the memorandum I deal with AFIC where There's a shared responsibility among the independent colleges I think that allows your organization to put much more pressure direct pressure on these institutions to follow through on these plans and on your guidelines Because you all are on the hook if they don't But if the state is on the hook, I guess I worry that Let's say out of ten if there were ten Maybe another one falls through the cracks and then we we've doubled our our expenses going forward In terms of picking up the pieces. So your reaction I'm not a fan of legislating for one isolated event Yeah, no matter what it is in this case the student records, but in other cases You know people who proposed legislation because one thing happened and therefore they place burdens on everybody because one thing happened So I personally don't think that's a good approach to legislation And I also think that you know the pot we were taken aback by what happened at Burlington College as well And that because of that we have started putting our own mechanisms in place to ensure that doesn't happen again and feel some responsibility For ensuring that student records are taken care of whether there's a memorandum or not But again, this is making a precedent that were responsible or that any association is responsible for The wrong of its members Oh Yep understood And the last thing I would say is if if in fact These new mechanisms are making it highly likely then in this case It's highly unlikely that your association would be called so If it's a choice between two highly unlikely recipients Is it a big or the state? That's kind of what we're talking about Any questions for this I'm trying to remember what this language does this Does to the first part that you don't like that you would like to strike that So you think starting on page to line That to a and further is okay. Yes Okay, so that is the All right, and then The first part is just an MOU between a big and each of the colleges that Says that they must the colleges must properly administer the records Yeah, if the if the college doesn't ensure that the records are taken care of And his members have to step up Oh, I see so the first responsibility is still on the individual college to take care of its records But if they fail to do that And it's a big collect yeah Okay, and that the just the costs of another college covered or other so it's not section two is making it much more Much less likely Less likely much less likely that David would be called upon Yeah, so I think um, you know, it is a question of if we do both parts the state is significantly more Protected if we do one part the state is more Not as much as it would be but we'd have Some dissatisfaction All the credit ones yes, all the non-profit To two of the ones who went down with the ones who were not College of St. Joseph's was so the one for profit is necky And one that's not a credit it federally credit it is the Center for cartoon studies So if a college was and I think this happened with one of them they could just stop being a member Well, no, there's language here that extends if you look a little further If you look to page five it says She'll amend a memorandum so that if a college terminates its membership There's a period of one year where they're still And this is probably a question for Jim, but the state board is mentioned in here So thank you Susan I appreciate it And you know we're We're having fun with it, but this is This is kind of an existential crisis that various educational institutions in the state are facing State college system experiencing the same demographic drops Clients and enrollment competition from online. It's it's a ferocious Environment and so what we're trying to figure out is first of all how to keep these institutions healthy To the extent we can but in the worst case scenario How do we make sure the students are protected? Well to that point I don't we haven't really fully had that conversation in this committee well Jebs Well, no, I'm to Susan's point about the private colleges to Yeah Yeah, I mean just to lay my own currents on the table I'm at this point I'm more worried about the state college system than private Colleges because they they were started without the without the state's help and you know, they operate In large part free of the state so but you know Lyndon and Johnson are two campuses that we're going to be talking quite a bit about Northern Vermont University and you know, I think Ruth's CCV tuition, I think is a good way to think about you know in an indirect way getting money to them making them healthier, but Will be asked to do more directly too. So it's a conversation And I did mention to the senator after you spoke about this That most of the five colleges do have articulation agreements with CCV Thank you Okay, Jim So now we're going to 20406 which is the special education language we did last year Yeah so Let's do the same thing. We'll have Jim give us a little bit about the bill and we familiarize this with it and then if you want to Speak about to what extent it's still Serves your needs So That might be in your Last year We've been through what happened in the budget and the change to date last year so Toward the top here says SP rules adopted Level 120 that got moved out by a year in the budget and then likewise below that It says 2020 2021 school year That can moved out by a year because we delay the census grand fire year. Yeah, however, I couldn't change the color for it Well, if you look at the next boxes to the right one two three four five all those boxes with the red and the gray Dates those all need to be changed. Do I have here to match where you did? But did you say by a half year? Yes, so they all have to be on all this change down. You need to be made in your bill To conform to the change you made Right, but they were made so okay. All these days have a chance. So let's go to the bill You'll see what we're doing. It's all just one year. Just moving one year. Yeah, this is correct now Yeah, we said like the bill And so first year now The formula is 2025 First year now That's the first year the uniform base amount. That's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah when everything is calculated the first year The census grant there was 21 22. Yeah, but then we're aren't we putting together the uniform formula with those three years of data? Yeah, so we're basically coming to an end point and then gradually moving toward it. Yeah, okay. Yeah, good enough Yeah, so Ted correct me if I'm wrong Ted communicated back to the secretary that we had three areas of concern one of which was we wanted a North chart with Indications of what the hiring has been under secretary French Including special ed, so we'll we'll get an update on that He's in what day? I'm sorry secretary French next week is in what day Wednesday Thursday Thursday Okay, Ted. Oh You did have your hand I think you started to write your television for my name to some education I was just trying to look at my calendar, and I'm seeing something slightly different, but I'll be okay All these days were in your earlier bill change But either one of the exchanges in your earlier bill was One below those date boxes Funding for a leave for buy assistance We had in your bill we have moved that day out by a year, so there's four years other than three years Which is one of the other three things that the secretary is going to work on is Progress on that professional development. Yeah, you're right. We put it out a year I didn't do that here because it's not necessary to Proceed we did the budget so Okay, so going to the bill Purpose Proposes to and then the special education laws to Ensure that the composition of the state advisories now education remains in the plan to throw off to make technical changes and Three actually it's not three year but maybe to be maybe in the Educational support Designed as a vehicle to do both of those things in the event that we decide to do them To go back to the conversation about whether things We can create a committee bill For instance if we decide to do to put forward the waiting formula changes No way around it. That's going to be controversial and Basically wind up in the finance committee and Senate ways and means a mouse and then leadership would decide whether to pull the trigger on it or not So we'll have to make a decision at some point Does it make sense? For a second year to have these changes to this advisory panel right along with something that's going to have a bumpy road so My quick thinking is that we should probably divide them out Okay, okay Education so basically taking all of her money which and referring to the governor to people They're over here yet in the swimming suit, but that's their To is a transitional requirement that the governor Point people to ensure that the panel is in court to fill a law by August 1st 2020 then page Six or other amendments to special educational laws so You will recall from last year that the agency had a number of technical changes they wanted to have made So this reflects the agency's question technical changes and also the day change So the first change here on line 12 for example is the agency recommendations Clarifying change I would say though just just to orient you a bit this definition belongs to a membership. Yeah, this is what is used throughout this bill Aqua 33 determine how much school does it get? Because it's the student count Times uniform uniform Sentence amount, right? So suit and count in this bill is on some membership, which is just an average of three year three years Bunsen seats, so it's not weighted at all. So one of the recommendations made and You know Colby's report is you could change that definition to use equalize pupils Using the new methodology that they come up with and that would that would solve this issue Increase the people amount by Yeah, just to mention just so you didn't have a sense for a patient where they could go so as as Everybody will see if you haven't spoken with her about it. My sense was that she's not really behind that As an approach, but the report does make it clear that that's a path we could go down but Anyway, because it uses some of the waiting pieces that we already have as proxies for yeah Yeah, so she was three days of doing him. I think the race one is a supplemental grant Yeah, right one is using the glass people who have the poverty week One is doing a version of black people only with a poverty week So that three yeah, the reason I worry about it a lot of reasons But one reason I worry about it is that it makes more dramatic some of the shifts in tax rates And so politically it's a it's a bigger lift and she's also not she's clear that it's it's not an exact proxy It's a kind of a Venn diagram where these categories overlap special needs and poverty and so there's a Good statistical probability that you're kind of speaking to actual need But you can't really say that it demonstrates actual need in the way that you could if you did a supplemental grant Because people have to submit here on actual needs So anyway, we'll talk about that when we do the yeah So so again the first change of page six is just a potential agency likewise Page seven the change in line three or four again this is the change in agency from last year I put in My five educational support picks up in the case work without that way And then So line 13 So we have to move the day out by a year. So you start seeing that page seven Page eight Seven ten fourteen fifteen sixteen seventeen All those are You move it to 20 is it still those three years 17 18 and 19 or does the three years also Well, it does it might matter in terms of the result but last year we get that the same You can change you can move it up by by a year. I think but you can use it. This is this is a proxy. So That's the right it would be maybe arguably slightly more accurate Okay questions for Jim And obviously we're gonna we're gonna this is just a quick look we're gonna take Stakeholder testimony again And not assume that people still like the language they liked last year and we will make ourselves masters again of the All the moving pieces on the on the deadlines and stuff like that but Jim you want to swap out again? Yeah Nine Ten Section seven is this they change again And then section eight is just your holder for Way of membership. So you change their purpose of our section Okay, thanks And if you could just give your name in your affiliations Rachel So I want to talk about section one, which is a special advisory in the fur census-based funding for some other time We would love for this language to be passed out Since we just couldn't quite get it across the finish line and If it can be separate and not get stuck that would be lovely as well Since the last time I was here The advisory panel has met and created bylaws about membership Working to kind of work on the recruitment issue of parents with this The last time I checked in with our former the former care Two new parents had been appointed. There's still a pretty significant minority of parents though So we're not that halfway point yet But the last meeting that the panel had six interested parents or guardians attended And so the hope is that they will Continue to be interested and go through the application process And and part of the point of this is to send a flare across the governor's range of vision That his next appointment should be parents So can I ask you then there's a piece there is a piece Bylaws and I didn't bring them with me today, but I would be happy to get them to change Bylaws were created. This is page six. Yes, this is page six lines one through four. Should we strike that? I mean, I think it's not necessary anymore because they've gone through Jim you are creating bylaws that have been supported by the special new special ed director So Committee how would Just testing the waters on this we spent quite a lot of time on this Representative I thought really good work. We cut through a lot of fog and I think clear Structure the advocates were pleased with it. The only reason it didn't go anywhere with the act 46 Discussion, how would you feel if we started a committee bill and got it on its way? quickly like next week So I don't want to I don't want to send it out without advertising it so that other Potential stakeholders can see it and but we could advertise a markup and vote the end of next week And that way we'll have it over to the house by the end of January So it's like out with census grant stuff. Yeah, so it'd be section one You think if you could do that and Jeannie, yes, if you could Jim is going to take I know this is going to screw up your number system But what we're going to do is we're going to take section one of this and Jim's going to create a committee bill Which and we're going to want to mark up and vote that committee bill next Thursday or Friday So I can't remember who's on the schedule for Thursday or Friday, but we would need probably about At least half an hour If it's at all possible for it to be Thursday, I'll be in town anyway for a meeting of the special advisories Thursday Oh and What about Wednesday? So let's do it Let's do it Wednesday. Yeah, I'm listening. I thought she was Yeah, I don't you don't really need to be here Okay Or we could hold it till the following week. I mean I can come come Wednesday afternoon as well. Oh, okay. Okay, so But Jim is going to create a committee and then that committee He gets it overnight exactly they don't complain And that bill will come up on Wednesday That way people can see it between Friday today and Wednesday And so we'll take anybody who wants to testify on it Just find a way to schedule them Tuesday or Wednesday So that we hear anybody We'll send it out Thank you appreciate it. Okay, so Committee that's what we had For today, we've been remarkably speedy It is Friday so Anything anybody has before we adjourn So I think we've got Most of the big Vehicles out and kind of lumbering forward So starting next week will any bill that we haven't introduced in the last year We'll now introduce now so any of the new things that we've gotten will do what we always do which is We'll have the sponsors and They'll have minutes or so to introduce them That's all the green So there are some interesting things in there Next week will Do what we normally do which is after the introduction will take an informal straw pool and Just does the committee feel like going forward is productive? Is it is it are there four people who can imagine voting for it? And if there's not we'll at least we'll have had the sponsor in to make their case But we'll leave aside the ones that the committee is not interested in hearing more on that doesn't mean we'll pass them out But we'll take some testimony and go down the road a bit for Okay, so thanks everybody. We'll we'll commit on Tuesday Next next week just one thing that I want to make sure you're Thinking about is the waiting study. We're going to have that presentation on the 16th But if you haven't been through it It's good to go through it. I would I would recommend the executive summary and page 66 Which is where the simulations start the simulations are fascinating just because we're all Very geographically inclined we think in towns we think in Start looking at equivalencies between towns and so just run your eye over it Have some familiarity with the basics of the executive summary at least and then We'll start that discussion See where it takes an excellent question about that. So if we decide to move forward with working on that issue Jfo to be able to Sure, I mean I Really think that UBM has done an exhausted job on the numbers and I think Jfo will probably give them some deference So but anybody who wants to have jfo independently No, I meant just if we did you know variations on some of the scenarios Well, so so here's the thing I It would be possible to start with the studies numbers and then start moving the formula to get certain towns To go like this, which is yeah, honestly gonna happen all around. Yeah, I don't want to do that. I just yeah if we And I just I'm just wondering just from scheduling point of view if we would have JFOs JFOs available to any senator so you can go to jfo as as our policy in the committee. I want to discourage us from You haven't been through redistricting Anybody has except for me What happens is people Computer technology is amazing and there are platforms that do redistricting and so you can literally Move a line and it will calculate Percentages of different kinds of voters different You know the amount of data is stacked and so what people start doing is playing around with well what if the line is here with the line is here and The temptation to want to have the discussion sloth over into Does it help us? You know Get more of our kind of order and not that kind of order is is overwhelming I think in this case the temptation for every single senator every single house member is going to be to look at my towns and Say well, I can't have that town have that value. So how do I? Play with these and that's how we wanted to put the values we have now They were political decisions as opposed to Empirical decisions, so I'm going to argue for For if we decide to do it that we retain as much of the framework interlocking framework But back to what I said first if anybody wants to go to JFO and have them Move values and determine different simulations for towns That's that wasn't what I was asking because I've been in this situation Of having to rerun data based on the political decisions and that was not my intention. It's mostly that if we want to have the Our nonpartisan fiscal staff be able to explain things or advise us in some way Will they will we have them available as we're walking through this? If what you're saying is would they rerun the calculations Then I'm not I don't know that that wouldn't make not that it wouldn't make sense But it would be kind of a duplication of effort because we paid two hundred fifty thousand dollars Okay