 So let me begin by welcoming all of you and saying thank you so very much for joining us today for non-profit Power Week with Dave Thomas Foundation for adoption. We are so thrilled to have Rita Sorenen, president and CEO with us again today discussing impacting change with policy and this is going to be a robust discussion that I am looking forward to. We're thrilled to have you back Rita and we're thrilled to dive in and learn more about the Dave Thomas Foundation for adoption throughout the entire week of this week. And so we also want to extend our gratitude deepest appreciation to our presenting sponsors that allow us to have these dedicated weeks and thought leader episodes with people like Rita and the Dave Thomas Foundation for adoption. These companies exist to help you and your organization do more good to level up your mission in and around your community. So if you have not checked out our sponsors, please make sure you do that because definitely with it being end of year this is a big time that we all need a little bit of help so they are here to hand in hand be right there with you. As is Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy, as am I, Jarrett Ransom, your non-profit nerd, sometimes Julia's private non-profit nerd, but there's enough nerdiness to go around. I'm the CEO of the Raven Group and really excited to have this conversation with Rita today. Again, as we talk about impacting change with policy, welcome back Rita. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here for day two. Thank you. Okay, this is like such an interesting question because if you were with us yesterday, you spent some time listening to Rita and hearing the story of how this amazing foundation was started and the reason why it was started. My question now, 20 years later, do you think that Mr. Thomas would understand or not even understand that maybe you recognize how you've been invested in policy and what that even looks like? I think absolutely he would and I think he would applaud it. I hope he would applaud it. When you think about the nature of the business that he was in and that he started having to maneuver state and federal regulations, tax laws, interstate commerce. You know, all of the bits and pieces that went into creating a robust international business, it was just part of the DNA of what he did. In his sense is he believed that the foundation would also have that in its DNA, given this really important factor for the Dave Thomas Foundation for adoption, the populations we serve are inexorably linked with government systems. They're in the custody of counties and states. And so we're tightly woven with those very entities and individuals, policymakers, change makers, people in charge, who have to impact and implement policy. On behalf of children, if there are barriers to these children getting adopted and there are many, then by nature the Dave Thomas Foundation for adoption has to step into those policy and advocacy venues, or we're not going to serve our children well. One of the things you said earlier was really knowing the difference of policy, advocacy, lobbying, and I'm wondering if you could spend, you know, a little bit of time to really tell us the difference. Because I do fear that many organizations and organizational leaders, you know, by nature as a 501c3 will say, Oh, we can't do that. That's an area we cannot touch, or we are, you know, we are, we are, you know, playing with danger, and we might have our 501 restricted focus about how this is a focus for the foundation, and why it's so much of a focus because of the differences. And it's a great question and I think it's one that sometimes puts a barrier up for some nonprofits thinking we couldn't possibly dip our toe into the world of policy change or advocacy or lobbying and sometimes those words get confused. And it really is that lobbying. Well, first of all, that political piece as nonprofits, we will never, never take a political position on who should be elected to to an office right. We can certainly have an open forum and ask as a child advocates, ask all of the candidates, what's your position on X for children, how are you going to do better for children, but we're certainly not going to use our nonprofit budget in order to help an individual get elected that's always a never. But that lobbying piece is very distinct from that lobbying is is very specific in the text code that you will attempt to influence a yes or no vote on a specific piece of legislation, or at a grassroots level, you'll attempt to get the community to do a yes or no vote on a piece of legislation right and you're allowed to do that. The nonprofits are uniquely positioned in these complex community conversations of the health and welfare of individuals in the community, and the health and welfare of individuals in the community is always impacted by legislative change right that turns into policy that then demands advocacy. So there are and I won't go into the deep detail but it is a rare organization that will hit that financial threshold of what the IRS allows you to do in terms of lobbying and their tests for it their substantive tests and their expenditure tests, so that you know whatever lobbying we do and we do we do some but we don't do a lot. We won't even come close to the threat the financial threshold that then puts our 501 C3 at risk. We don't want to come close to that that's not the main thing that we do, but we're not afraid of it and so I would encourage other nonprofits to really look at what's your budget, what is your mission, where can you help enact legislative change that may quick more quickly drive the best interest of the constituents you're serving. But take that aside, that notion of public policy policy is implemented in so many different ways and advocacy is is implemented in so many different ways so for example. During COVID, we very quickly had to pivot our messaging and our advocacy for the children we serve who are in foster care waiting to be adopted to say, COVID is impacting these children in profound ways they're at a higher risk of getting it if they're in group homes, they're at a much higher risk of getting it, they're being separated already from families and others and now with restrictions on movement they're not seeing anyone, it's the trauma they've already experienced is being compounded by this, this pandemic. And so we, we immediately launched a campaign talking to the press, talking to the public, putting information out there, that kind of advocacy is so critical on the board. Now, when we advocating for something specific yes when dollars began to open up during the pandemic for states and specifically for children and families in these situations, then making sure that organizations understood the dollars that were available to them by policy, right, that that how they could access them, encouraging them not to forget their constituents and how these dollars can affect them so that sense of advocacy going to the press. What's so critical for us is is having, we're very research focused, and so making sure that we have a flooring of research that allows us to have quality conversations with change makers with policymakers that help educate them on the issues of foster care and adoption. But then we have a basis if there is a specific piece of legislation that we think is important to then drive change in a bigger way. We've got that foundation from having advocated through research, and then through policy change and then through legislation. So those are just some examples but I think they're tightly woven. But I think we all need to remember that as nonprofit leaders as nonprofit employees as nonprofit board members as nonprofit donors. We have a unique position in the community and a unique responsibility to say, we understand what's happening for our most vulnerable children and families whether it's foster care, or our food insecurity or housing insecurity or job insecurity, whatever the issue is health care issues, we're in a unique position to understand the depth of those issues, and then advocate for strategic change in order to better both the mission and the lives of those constituents. It's really powerful that you can have you've explained to us some of these nuanced aspects that can come back and have tremendous impact, positively or negatively. So I'm fascinated about, you know, your team and how they talk about policy, but hearing you speak, I want to ask a follow up question and that is, are you having to spend time with your board and your team. Explaining or saying the very things that you just said to Jared and I, because I think a lot of people don't understand this. Absolutely, and it's just in a way of clarifying if we're, for example, every few years we do a national survey of Americans attitudes toward foster care and foster care adoption. Well, the reason for that is so that we can understand the barriers that exist with attitudes, so that we can then impact by creating public service announcements that address perhaps the myths or misperceptions that we've discerned. And at the board table, for example, I've had a board member asked me, Well, do you really, you know, public service announcements is anybody really watch them anymore what is the purpose behind them because we're spending a little bit of money to create them right. And we, and that's when you say well, if we step back and look at what our advocacy role is in this organization, how we've gotten to what the content of that public service announcement is, and then the dispersal of and where we disperse that public it's just not on TV it might be in a civic keynote presentation that we're doing where you're again talking to change makers so so I think yes there there's there's inherent in that, not assuming that everybody's at the same place and understanding the value of it, or understands perhaps the misperceptions behind what lobbying advocacy and public policy work is, particularly as we've grown our program in states across all 50 states in the District of Columbia. We have to deal with different policies and procedures. There's a federal overlaid child welfare but it's implementation at the state level can be very different from state to state. Again, not unlike what Mr. Thomas understood in implementing a franchise system from state and so helping our board members understand that when we're creating public private partnerships in states inherent in that again is a lot of policy and advocacy and occasionally lobbying work in order to make those partnerships thrive on behalf of children. So absolutely it's a continuing conversation with with with employees with board members with be careful what lines you step in or step over particularly with social media and everybody's, you know, wanting to get their voice expressed through social media let's just be cautious on how we're expressing something that might be a policy issue or or or an advocacy issue. So all of that exists. Great question, absolutely. I have another question and this, some might say it's a curve ball but I have a feeling you're going to knock it out of the park. When you are talking about creating policy. Is this a discussion in your strategic planning as well like as you're looking years ahead, do you and the visionary say, what are the policies that we have been successful in and I hope that you'll share that with us here soon. So what are the policies and the advocacy work that we really want to sink our teeth into so is that part of the bigger discussion is always part of both the near term and the long term strategic discussion absolutely and I'll give you another example. What are the issues in child welfare and in getting these children particularly that focused population of children who are most at risk of aging out of care with an adoptive family again teenagers children and sibling groups children with special needs. Children who are opposed to permanency because they've just given up on adults and family. What we have to address are what are those barriers that exist and frequently those barriers exist at the very frontline level of social workers and judges right because there are some belief systems that they may have. And so, part of what our recent strategic planning has been is creating, particularly at the bench with judges, who if a child says I don't want to be adopted a judge says oh I want to respect that child's voice so we'll put them on the participation track in other words will let them lead foster care without a family. And what we have to do we created an entire our chief legal counsel created an incredible education piece on understanding permanency for people in the legal system with attorneys, Casa guardians that light them, those people that have a profound impact on permanency for children, helping them understand. So it's not only an education p an advocacy piece, but at some point it may turn into, is there a piece of legislation needs to happen that addresses what happens at the judicial level we're not there yet. And there's lots of things that already exist we simply have to let people understand what's behind those. And I think, yes, it absolutely has to be as you get into the depth and the complexities and the nuances of a cause again it doesn't have to be foster care adoption. As you get into those nuances of a cause, there will always be policy issues that are either barriers to be addressed, or perhaps entrance ways that have not yet been created to make things better. I love hearing that that is a piece of the strategic planning and I feel that there's probably many organizations that are remiss in that discussion around the strategic plan and you know as we talked a little bit earlier and you shared so eloquently the differences between, you know, lobbying advocacy and policy work that is a great place that being the strategic planning discussion to start this conversation. And I would love to hear some policy success stories that you and your team have had Rita. Sure, and it's a wonderful dance between service and policy. Right. Again, it's it's it's it's not something that should be viewed separately or as you know our teams interact on all of these conversations our program team and our business development team and our marketing team and our development team. They're always interacting on these conversations because they're so intricately linked some examples of policy absolutely when you think about our adoption friendly workplace right. Again, I'll go back to Dave Thomas, who, as he was beginning this journey of creating a foundation. He, I think we talked about this yesterday, just believed in his heart that there ought to be policies at a business level that say if you give benefits to families that are formed for birth. You also should give benefits to families that are formed through adoption, and by extension perhaps families that are fostering. And so we began a specific program the adoption friendly workplace program that encourages employers to put in place paid leave and and potentially financial reimbursement for adoption expenses for their employees. But that was part of a larger initiative that said where are those other resources that families need for example. You know at the federal level with with family medical leave, there are policies already in place but they didn't address adoption or foster care. And so advocating for at at all levels not just at a private business level, this notion of employee benefits that are formed through adoption or foster care and we weren't the only ones but but in 2020 the feds instituted, you know, paid leave for families that are formed through a through adoption so that that arc of understanding that the benefit should be there and then how does that get translated into policy is critical. Another one is the adoption tax credit so families need resources when they adopt out of foster care. It's not expensive to adopt out of foster care but there are other expenses, just raising a child putting a child through college. If you adopt a 12 year old you haven't saved for that first 12 years for college so all of those expenses that go into raising a child. We've been at the at the forefront of advocating for a federal and state adoption tax credit for families who adopt so that they can have at least some recognition. At the end of the day that there's an expense to this, but it's a collective community responsibility, and it can show up on something as simple as filing my annual taxes and getting a tax credit for having adopted. Another piece is, is when we look at this this quest for us to have public private partnerships in the states in order to expand one of our signature programs the Wendy's wonderful kids program that aggressively moves children out of foster care and into adoptive homes. One of the one of the tenants of this is that it's a co investment relationship between the state and between and philanthropy the Dave Thomas foundation for adoption, but ultimately because these children are in the custody of the state, they will take over the majority of the expense of this program as it gets embedded as best practice as the way of doing things for this vulnerable population of children. And we look at where are the resources available to states, then that already exist or are there some that should be created in order to recognize that it's their legal and moral responsibility to move these children out of foster care and into adoptive homes. If, if the, the, the financial director of the state is saying we couldn't possibly afford to do this. It's our responsibility to look at where the policies in place that they can afford to do this or where can we help them create strategies in order to make that happen so those are just some of those examples where we're working both at a finance level at a direct service level. And, and sometimes just at a attitude change level that that advocacy works I think on behalf of, again, the 122,000 children in this country, who are simply waiting for a family and a home. And you had mentioned, and one of the reasons that power week is this week is that this month, November is national adoption month correct. Yes, yes, yes it is. So we work on this, the notion that everybody should know about children and foster care waiting to be adopted every day but November gives this this incredible platform to really, you know, pull off, take off all the brakes and, and, and let America know what this is what foster care adoption is who these children are why it's important to think about them in your community and and at a national basis. No question. You know it's so interesting to see the arc of the story from one individual who was successful in business, move through his life, funded this campaign, you know, the story in itself is just amazing. I'm wondering is it as you look at the landscape of the nonprofits 1.8 million registered in our country. Are you able to see other nonprofits or other foundations that are doing things that allow you to understand what it is that you could be doing I mean I feel like a lot of our viewers are going to be watching you to learn what it is that they can do with their organizations that could be completely obviously different in scope and practice, but where have you garnered the information and the knowledge and the road path to doing these things. Personally, as a leader I learned so much in collaboration. I learned so much in partnership with other great thinkers. And so I've worked really hard to make sure that I have this outreach and that I'm responsive to others reaching out to us that we learn as much as we can about other organizations that are doing both similar things and maybe doing different things, but the strategies that they use are applicable to what we do so that's been a profound part I think of, of how I do business is it's always been collaborative. And we work in a number of informal informal groups, some advocating for change in the child welfare system it's a group of folks coming together. I'm involved in a group of just almost exclusively faith based organizations we're not a faith based organization, but so much of foster care and adoption happens through faith based organizations as well. So being understanding that and understanding how we can do that better. There is, if we've learned nothing else over the past couple of years, there's a profound racial inequity and social justice conversation that has to continue in this country in a very big way. It's been going on for decades but but it's been highlighted over the past couple of years. And so looking at where do we fit in with those groups that are doing much better than we are probably on addressing the fact that there is always been an over representation of children of color in the child welfare system why is that not because those parents are worse than white parents, but because there are, there are systemic issues that have driven BIPOC children into the child welfare system at a much higher rate. And so our outreach over the past couple of years has been where do we fit into this and how do we do this better. And then we have these public private partnerships so understanding through the fund grant making that we do for programs, as we give grants to both public and private organizations, making sure that we're as smart as we can be with the differences that exist between child welfare systems across the states and across some counties in some states. We have to the nature of our work demands that collaboration but it is, I think by nature who I am as well. And there's a lot, you know, and so I applaud you I applaud your entire team and the board, everyone that plays a role in this, as well as your investors which some of us call them funders, some of us call them donors right. And I'm curious, you know, as you engage in policy right here, you know, how do you talk about policy in a fundraising aspect, because any time politics or anything political is brought up we all know because we've been around the block long enough, it can be divisive right and so does policy change help or hurt in your fundraising endeavors. For us it has only helped. I think I think that's absolutely has only helped and I again I'll give you a specific example. We had a potential donor reach out to us. She was part of an investment group of women who were looking collectively at where they could invest their resources, and they they happened on the Dave Thomas Foundation for adoption she wasn't uniquely connected to the cause but they happened on us in some way. She wanted to know one. How did we do research what was the research you want to understand our research and she very much wanted to stand understand, where did we immerse ourselves in policy, and advocacy and lobbying. And so we shared all of that information with her over a couple of months time. Unfortunately, the group decided to go in a different direction than Dave Thomas Foundation for adoption. But interestingly, we stayed in touch with her because she was the one that had made the outreach with with whatever was going out with emails with phone calls. Here's an update on where we're scaling this when these wonderful kids program here are some issues and she had an opportunity to ask more questions about where we were involved in public policy. We just learned about a month ago that she has written the Dave Thomas Foundation for adoption into her will in a significant way. So, that's an example, I think of are there some individuals that are drawn to that and will want to be a part of investing in the organization of course, of course, will it scare some people away. Look, we put a statement of justice up on our website after so many horrible things were happening across this country, you know just 12 months ago, we had some donors email us call us and say, because of some of the verbiage you have on there we don't choose to donate to you anymore. I understand that our statement of justice is not a political statement, it is a human statement. And so if someone chooses to disagree with that. I applaud it, you don't have to be a donor, but for the most part, I think, because people have seen the work that we take the care that we take the the non political positions that we take this is not a political conversation it's a human conversation that we have attracted and, and even during the pandemic and increased number of donors than we had the year before. You know Rita, even what you had mentioned earlier about having this group home setting and during coven, you know with not having ability to, you know, really distance on and looking at some of the policy as it relates to for me what I hear it you know is it's education, it's education to all of us and I am embarrassed to say that never crossed my mind, right. Because I'm not in that world and so for for me to hear you know these statements it's like, Oh, well of course that is of concern, you know, and it should be of concern but for many of us that aren't in this day in and day out like like you are on the same team. It really is an educational opportunity for many of us. We shared with you, you know, yesterday Julie and I both got off the conversation and we were like, Wow, we were so just, you know, invigorated and inspired by the great work of the foundation and there's always something for everyone to do. And just, I think it's fantastic and I think that, you know, standing bravely in your human statements is so important. Well, and those conversations give us an opportunity to expand beyond child welfare. Look, I'm going to stay uniquely focused on the mission but during coven when you're thinking about vulnerable children that are impacted. There are vulnerable children that are not in foster care who are impacted because their families now are in economic distress, or they're in rural areas that don't have access to broadband and therefore are not getting the same kind of education opportunities that other children are. So it allowed us to also expand those conversations keep focused on the mission. But, but again, create a sense of unity among among those who are enmeshed in in human issues through nonprofits to say, How can we work together on behalf of all of our children and families. Amazing. Well, this has been fabulous. We're only in day two part on our nonprofit power week with the Dave Thomas Foundation for adoption. You've been joined by Jared with Jared and I by amazing amazing leadership talent and sage leader. And really amazing week. We've worked on this for a long time to really build a thread of different topics that we've together, whether this is your sector that you work in or not. I think the lessons here can crossover to all of us and so we have several topics not to be missed. How do CEOs and development directors work together that's going to be tomorrow. The power of collaboration, Rita, you mentioned that very like in the very beginning of our show today. We already talked about meeting the leader and championing the idea of the founder. And then Friday will be our ask and answer specifically with Rita so reach out to us if you have any questions for this dynamic leader, because there's really not to be missed. Here's Rita's information. The Dave Thomas Foundation, they really have an amazing website that details how they do their work, where they do their work, and how communities across our country can get involved with them. Again, I'm Julia Patrick been here today with my sidekick Jared ransom the nonprofit nerd herself CEO of the Raven group. Wow, Jared. This has been amazing and we want to make sure that we call out our sponsors who have gotten behind this week and this discussion because it's really super super powerful nonprofit power week has got me engaged. What about you, going strong. I'm excited tomorrow is going to be probably one of my favorites because talking, you know with the CEO and the CEO is so much of yesterday's conversation as well as today, you know really threads into every day of these episodes so you're right, do not miss them and of course they will be archived so you can access them at any time because there's been a lot Rita that you said that I want to go back and hear again so thank you and thanks to everyone that joined us today. It's been wonderful, you know, as we end this day. We want to remind you to stay well. So you can do well we'll see you back here tomorrow everyone thank you ladies.