 This holiday season give her a true pumpkin latte with tactical soap Fair amount of peace soap for men proud channel sponsor 21 studios. I'm Anthony dream Johnson, and I prove this Order now the link below use coupon code 21c for 10% off now George Bruno in Orlando with the 21 report And we're talking now with Jack Donovan How was your experience so far with the 21 convention? Oh great. I mean, it's bigger than last year. It's really good energy with a lot of people and I just like it It's a very positive positive direction There's people here who want change. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. They want to change their lives, and that's important because a lot of people don't Yeah, you didn't have to twist anyone's arm to be here. No, no, no, absolutely not Yeah, you know it when I walked in for a second. I was just telling you Because I know you can't see the audience because of the bright lights But I was standing in the audience and looking at everyone and as you were moving everyone's eyes and heads Were moving as you were moving on the stage people were captivated by you So to me, that's a great metric that you have people's attention. Yeah, that's super important What is your main message? for human beings Well, I don't really talk to human beings I talked to men You know the friend of mine always said that you should differentiate between the two but For men for years. Yeah, I've been talking about what masculinity is. Yes And I think that's really important because they have a lot of messages coming to them Telling them what masculinity is, but it's really just someone trying to control them in some one way or another You know whether it's you know cultural Things like religion, but that's kind of the old thing that doesn't really give people masculinity as much as It had the past. I mean now they're getting things from the media and they're getting you know Messages from women and feminism telling like real men does this or real men does that and it's really like Whatever women want or whatever You know the media wants and whatever someone who wants you to buy something once and so I thought it was really important Because men had a really hard time You're defining masculinity To kind of do the mental work of figuring it out. I mean a lot of people Mistake where I'm coming from and they think that maybe you know, like they expect me to be like a special forces guy or something And I know a lot of those guys but The way of men really which is kind of my main book is it was more of a logic problem Sitting down and parsing out like what you know, is this masculine? Is this always masculinity? Is this only masculinity in this culture and really taking it apart to get kind of really is an essential the masculinity And I think a lot of people have really resonated with that a lot of men have said you Wrapped up what I couldn't articulate and and so that's I think just defining masculinity is I think maybe my greatest, you know contribution To this going forward and then you know for masculinity it led to tribalism when I started to talk about masculinity in the way of men and a lot of actually a an evolutionary Psychologist I believe Saw that I was missing something that they were that science was missing in that that men select each other They always like orient everything in terms of Male and female selection like and that's what changes everything because you know talking about reproduction But to get access to women Men select each other You know who gets to be on the football team that gets them and and that's a huge social dynamic But I think a lot of people miss I never thought of that before that's interesting. Yeah Yeah, yeah, so it's it to impress women sometimes you have to impress other men Yeah, as well to be part of a that group that tracks them Yeah, and I think historically it now I mean we're very you know atomized society and a lot of people are just individuals on their own floating around and maybe that Isn't as true as it has been but you know throughout you know our human beings history I think that you know it was very much about men selecting each other in this male tribal idea You know in terms of that I moved from masculinity to tribalism and You know talking about you know what that really means it wouldn't mean to be part of a tribe because you know It's kind of a marketing buzz marketing buzzword. Mm-hmm. You know, I have a tribe. I don't know you have a mailing list Okay, yeah, that's different. There's a difference. Yeah, there's a huge difference Okay, and so I talked a lot about tribalism, you know in my book becoming a barbarian So it's it's all been a little arc for me. Yeah, but at the end of the day You know, I also realized that we aren't you know in ancient times and we aren't fighting for survival necessarily and You know it was really about Helping men right now be the best versions of themselves that they could be and You know taking all this background of history and our evolutionary background and everything and incorporating that in a way that You know can help them move forward and just become the best men that they can be Mm-hmm, and I'm you know the last book that I wrote you know becoming a more complete beast it involves a lot of Nietzsche philosophy in terms of You know overcoming this anger that a lot of men have in society, you know, right and Moving toward, you know a creative place, you know it seems like that's a common theme in the past couple years being the best version of yourself and even I Think even without saying anything like I find myself when I'm sitting next to Jack Don I'm sucking my stomach in and my shoulder I mean, it's just a natural thing and it's not a competition. Yeah, it's almost like you are raising the bar With the way you look and I'm sitting up straighter because of you All right, and I think I think that's the effect even without even opening your mouth And then add to that your words and your concepts And I think we have something good going on. Let me ask you this Let's say a plane or a plane crashes or a ship Sinks and a hundred men are survivors and they swim to a desert island Will tribes form on that island? Oh, absolutely Tell me about that. How does that naturally happen? Yeah, I mean, I think that that's The example that I would use which is very similar to that is you know, that was very popular a few years ago Now it's kind of past peak, but the you know, the zombie apocalypse and you know What it what happens if there are zombies surrounding the building or whatever if there's an external threat We have a problem to solve and then we have to figure out who were the best people to solve that problem Yes, and that's one of the ways that men select each other. Yes he's like so, you know if we you know you crashed on the desert island and Well, who's the guy who can figure out how to make you know find or make food? Yeah, he's gonna be very important all of a sudden Yeah, he may not have been important on the ship But he's very important now and so he's gonna have a higher status Yeah, and you know the guy who you know can you know hunt the wild pig, you know Lord of the flies style That's yeah, that's that's the guy that's gonna be important in a certain way and you know Somebody who has you know a lot of know-how You know it's the you know virtue mastery that I talked about in my book is that you know very important in that kind of situation And you know obviously if there are competing tribes on the island if there's a war between the two facts Yes, yeah, then you know those kind of skills become important you know and So I mean I think that just competing for resources and creates a tribal environment and also You know, I always say about you know when people ask me about creating a tribe in the modern world You're really picking your best friends and to a certain extent. It's about human relationships as well because You know someone could have all the skills in the world, but you just don't like him. Yeah, you know He's not he's just you know, you just don't get along and so you know a try a different tribe could form because of that These is there's you know personalities don't mix You know and so there I think there's a lot of you know ways that that would naturally happen I don't think that Because you're gonna have a cooperative group and that's what that really is the tribe of shared resources You know, I've heard it said that When it comes to Survival and like you said men need the approval or seek the approval or are approved by other men in order to get women and so forth and and to dispel rumors and Conceptions about the 21 convention. It's not four days of how to get women It's four days of excellence to be a well-rounded man Whereas I heard some people say that when it comes to women and we're not women bashing at all in any way Some people said that many times women get women getting together is like the crabs in a bucket thing Where they're pulling each other down Yeah, I'm happy to see guys push each other up here and I'm witnessing it with my eyes. I'm seeing it. I'm seeing people throw the gauntlet down for excellence for other people and men Have that effect on other men Oh, absolutely. I mean it's you know, there's that kind of mentor relationship that you have and and also you know men compete naturally and so you know when you You know in your room Walk into room and there's a guy who's you know has some obvious, you know standout qualities If they want to feel comfortable in that room You know, maybe next year, they're gonna have more of those qualities Yes, you know and and you know, I want to be a higher status member of that group What does that mean? And so you find out all these qualities that you're identifying that what it means to be high status in this particular group And then you know, that's you know, how a little culture forms really You know, but it's always great to see, you know, men actually Encouraging each other because you know, there is a lot of you know, it's the opposite of the internet, right? The internet it's always like someone standing in line somewhere That's always imagine all comments on the internet actually happen Or someone standing in line at board somewhere and they see something They don't like and they make a rude comment about it Yeah, and that makes them feel better because they're mad that they're standing in line Yeah, and I feel like that's how the entire internet works And so there's this constant process of tearing people down And I think that you know, when you come together in a group of people who are trying to build people up, it's very inspiring In business, we like to say that You're the average of the five people you hang out with the most And now that we're most of us are fairly antisocial And we spent our eyeballs are more on a screen than with people I kind of took that statement and I said you're the average of the five content creators you watch the most How is like, I mean if someone's like watching you they're watching Richard Cooper, you know what I mean like I find that even just watching Higher level excellent content creators Helps me step up my game, but what's the danger of having virtual People how is that a dangerous thing or is that a good thing? To be the average of the five content creators you watch the most Well, I mean, I don't know if if you really are you're not in terms of you know Like I would love to say that I'm the average of you know, the five excellent people that I watch But I don't know that that's very true. Yeah, but you do You do gain something from that and I don't think it's bad But it does have to be supplemented with the real world relationships I think that you know the actual feedback from You know watching someone who's talking online Virtually actually dealing with them in real life is a little bit different But uh, yeah, it's not to say that the online stuff isn't worthwhile because you know, I watch people I would say either dudes I follow every day, you know, just so that I you know feel weak and fat You know to keep me motivated, right? I could be doing better Right, you know, I could be doing more I could be doing better and I think I think that's very uh, that's very motivating and you know You know, uh, you know a close friend of mine who puts out so much work And I'm like, how do you keep doing that every morning? Like how do you keep processing so much because I work a lot slower than he does and uh, so, uh, you know You know, he inspires me and I know him in person. So it's both. Yeah, but uh, yeah, my friend Paul I mean he puts out so much content and is always doing something And I feel like I do a lot of things But he shows me that I can always do more. Sure. You know, so it's it's very inspiring in that way We need people like that in our lives. Absolutely. Definitely. All right So there's someone sitting on a couch right now, right and they're watching this on their iphone Right and this video is going to be forever in the future And that person is stuck They don't know where they're going a year from now, let alone five years from now They're in despair That man just feels like a loser. He might have been divorced. He might have gotten fired He just doesn't he feel like as cooper says he feels like he's not making a dent in the universe speak to that man right there What are the first things that that man needs to do? Some day you're going to die and uh Do you want to die on the couch? Is basically what I would say You know your life is up to you. It's the only one that you have and you can either take control of it and uh, you know kind of envision what you want to be and As as confining as the modern world can be Creating an You have a lot of opportunity to create a vision for yourself You know, whatever crazy idea that you have in your head of who you want to be You can actually kind of do that in modern life. Now, you know, you may not be able to You know run through the streets hacking people's heads off. That's probably not a good. Well, it's not going to last long but uh, you can There's so many, you know Outlets for information You know, you can find a youtube video on how to do anything that you want to do All you have to do is decide to do it And uh, I think that you can really, you know, whatever life that you want to leave Whatever life that you wanted to lead, uh, you can actually Find the information very quickly more quickly than you ever could in history And Find, you know, the tools that you need to become that person You know people whether it's your diet people always say I wish I knew how to do this Well, the information is right there. All you have to do is find it Find the person that does what you want to do and looks how you want to look and do what they're doing And if that doesn't work, find the next person And the same is true with Anything in life, whether it's business or whatever, you know, want to make more money There's people who tell you how to do that and then you have to evaluate how really good they are doing that themselves And uh, you know, the information is there So it's up to you. I mean, it's your responsibility. It's your life. You can die on the couch You can you know, cover it in cheeto dust or whatever But uh, you know, that's that's that can happen And that's you'll live and die with that Or you have this one chance Yeah, maybe my friend paul that I mentioned We both have this He asked me this question one time You know, if you could live any time in history When would you live and you know, I I'm like I'm doing pretty good right now So now's good And we both felt the same way because we were both having a lot of success in life and now's good This is the only time we get you can't actually go back and live any time in history. So this is your now Uh You know, this is the time that you have and this is your this is our time Uh, so you can you can take it or not Powerful stuff That's the second time I heard about dying on the couch today Yeah, powerful powerful. You can be found on instagram at start the world In jack dash donovan Dot com. Yes, d o n o v a n People always spell it with an a Excellent George bruno for the 21 report in Orlando, florida. Thank you jack donovan. All right. Thank you