 Good afternoon colleagues and friends My name is James Kingston. I'm the legal advisor at the Department of Foreign Affairs and your hosts this afternoon Madam prosecutor, Adina Ushel, Fautorow at the Ratcharish go Dublin That's a few words of welcome in our native language. You're very welcome here respected person back to Dublin It's your third visit. I think to Ireland We were very happy to host you here before and we hope to host you in person again But in the difficult times in which we find ourselves. We are communicating via remote means Colleagues I am pleased to welcome you all to this Institute of international and European Affairs Event which is part of the global Europe project supported by my own colleagues In the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Minister for Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney This project aims to address analyze and communicate to a wider public the debate on the European Union's role in the world and Ireland's role in the multilateral order with a particular focus on Ireland's term as a non-permanent member of the United Nations Security Council This year and next and as you may know one of the three themes that is informing our membership of the council is Accountability, which is of course particularly pertinent to to our discussion this afternoon So we're delighted to be joined here today by the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court Mrs. Fatou Ben-Souda Who has been generous enough to take time out of her very very busy schedule to speak to us this afternoon? As I say, this is her third visit to Ireland and She luckily has not had to combine herself to Dublin. She has been lucky enough to visit the Irish Human Rights Center in Galway We had a very nice trip there and very good seafood Our friends in Galway Ever generously hosted us as part of their annual ICC summer school So we're very pleased to be joined by Mrs. Ben-Souda today She's going to speak for approximately 25 to 30 minutes and then we'll go to questions and answers with with the audience You'll be able to join the discussion using the question and answer function on Zoom Which you should see on your screen and please feel free to send in your questions throughout the session as they occur to you And we'll come to them once the prosecutor has finished her presentation and we're going to operate You know a sort of managed democracy if we were so for a particular number of questions come up repeatedly We should give them a certain amount of priority And I'd like to also welcome those who are watching us today on YouTube So just to remind you that today's presentation and the questions and answers are both on the records usually of course in the house The presentation is on the record, but the Q&A are subject to the Chatham House rule And also you should feel free to join in the discussion on Twitter using the handle Hashtag So I'm now going to formally introduce Mrs. Ben-Souda and hand over to her So Mrs. Fatou Ben-Souda is the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court Having assumed office in 2012 She was elected in 2011 by consensus by the Assembly of States Parties to serve in this capacity Mrs. Ben-Souda was nominated and supported as the sole African and the sole candidate for the post by the African Union and African States Parties and she's the first woman but hopefully not the last woman to serve as ICC prosecutor between 1987 and 200 Mrs. Ben-Souda was senior state council principal state council deputy DPP solicitor general attorney general and minister for justice In the Republic of Gambia her native country chief legal advisor to the president and cabinet And she left, uh, you know for reasons, I think of principle and worked in private practice and then took up a career as a A a civil servant an international civil servant at the ICTR um, and subsequently joined the ICC as the first deputy prosecutor Um, which is I think when I first met you in the Hagan back capacity, uh, Madam prosecutor accompanying president Mary McElise on a visit to the court Um, so mrs. Ben-Souda, I think it's fair to say has had an extremely difficult job for the past nine years um And we really salute your courage we in Ireland and I know me personally salute your courage because not only were you dealing with An extremely heavy workload you were dealing with criticism both justified and unjustified the most acute criticism came When you were actually doing your job and the reason for this of course is that Accountability funnily enough is not popular with people who commit genocide war crimes and crimes against humanity I know like everybody else you were also dealing with with difficult personal circumstances being separated from your family and also as I say constant attacks on on your Reputation both professionally and personally you were singled out together with senior member of your staff Uh by the united states government under the previous regime You were subjected to personal sanctions and humiliating restrictions on your visa and worse than that in some ways So were some members of your staff and it's always difficult as as as as a manager to send your staff out into the front line but nonetheless you you cope with great grace and courage And I think your work has been recognized because you're the recipient of numerous awards including by the international commission of justice The world peace through law award the american society of international laws honorary membership award And the peace prize by the united nations association of spain numerous honorary doctorates One of the top 100 most influential people in the world One of the most influential africans leading global thinker one of the top 50 african women in the world according to john afric And you know You in 2018 have joined the eminent roster of international gender champions and I would like to Perhaps it feeds into your your talk to see if you think that your the fact that you are a woman has been used against you In attacks when you're performing your functions But look, there are so many things I could say about you and to you But enough of me and I would now like to hand over to you. Mrs. Benzuda for as I say approximately 25 to 30 minutes We will have questions and answers from a very eager audience. Thank you Thank you very much, uh, mr. Kinston. Thank you for that those kind words that those introductory remarks and distinguished guests, uh, your excellencies Ladies and gentlemen, it is an honor to deliver this keynote speech for the prestigious institute of international and european affairs And to make this modest contribution to the global europe project At the outset I would like to Also extend my profound gratitude to mr. Collins and to jill donohue along with that with the colleagues at the institute For inviting me to present this lecture I'm really honored and grateful for the opportunity And I equally wish to extend my thanks to you mr. Kinston uh, the legal advisor at the department of foreign affairs of ireland for the for your introduction astute introduction and outlining Ireland's important contribution to the promotion of the rule of law And to the international criminal court and indeed for moderating today's exchange Ireland has been a strong supporter of the icc since its inception Having had the pleasure of traveling to Ireland twice. You mentioned that mr. Kinston during my term as icc prosecutor I really would have rejoiced the prospect of a third visit physically To once again enjoy your country's rich traditions and culture and to be with you in person For the equally rich exchanges. I have come to expect in my interactions with irish officials but alas It must be on another occasion in a in a future capacity as uh, the unfortunate covet 19 pandemic continues to present obstacles and Personally, I'm concluding my mandate as prosecutor this summer But it is a privilege nevertheless to share with you today Through this virtual setting a few thoughts on the importance of accountability and the rule of law The role of the icc within this context The current state of play along with reflections on my office's achievements But also the challenges encountered during my term in the office as well as future opportunities To to accurately frame this consideration Let us recall firstly that the icc was built on the lessons of history of unspeakable atrocities That for centuries have reigned unchecked living victims without records to justice And its origins lies in the unprecedented efforts of the nuremberg and tokyo military tribunals where for the first time individuals irrespective of rank or status Stood trial and we are convicted for their roles in the egregious And systematic crimes committed during the second world war in particular The atrocities witnessed during that war including the horrors of the holocaust shocked humanity's conscience to make progress towards the creation of a permanent international criminal court with the hope of never again Or at least with the aspiration of ensuring that those who commit these serious crimes no matter how powerful are helped to account As we know during the bipolar cold war and its dynamics Efforts to establish a permanent Mechanism to deal with atrocity crimes essentially froze And the world had to witness more unspeakable crimes including those committed in the former yugoslavia Here in europe's own neighborhood again and rwanda Until it was ready to accept the need for a permanent court to try the court's most heinous the world's most heinous and destabilizing crimes as such in rome in 1998 The idea behind this aspiration was given effect with the creation of the first permanent international criminal court Complimentary to national jurisdictions With jurisdiction over genocide crimes against humanity war crimes and since 2018 the crime of aggression And the icc was built as part of wider efforts to establish a rules based order That aims to create a culture of accountability of atrocity crimes Contribute to that prevention and there we say future generations from discourage of destructive power rivalry perpetual conflicts and mass atrocities And as I deliver these remarks before you today I observe with concern that in this new century we find Increasingly we find ourselves confronted with threats to multilateralism and the post-world war two based Rules based global order where the sanctity of sovereignty is misappropriated in the service of exceptionalism And a rejection of international law and the international rule of law But let's be forget that multilateralism as the preferred modest upper randai for interstate relations and corporation Multilateral institutions including those that advance the peaceful settlement of disputes and the rule of law They are all hard and fruits of our costly experience Of our common loss and indeed our common awakening and wisdom And in an increasingly interdependent world Faced with global challenges from climate change and cross border terrorism To war and mass atrocities real success and progress depends on our willingness to acknowledge that It is only through collaboration And a concerted effort that we can hope to counter the destructive and destabilizing force of these ills And that system as we know it is increasingly being challenged by potent forces The setbacks we are currently witnessing are however not inevitable and there are many counter currents Ladies and gentlemen In the current political context when multilateralism is under such duress How about the case of international criminal justice as represented by the international criminal court and the wider system Established by the Rome statute which founded the ICC After all the court was established Was not established in a vacuum And nor does it today operate in a vacuum It is often said that if someone would have the idea to create a court in the current state of the world in disarray They would perhaps never succeed Perhaps but I posit that the creation of the court must be one of humanity's proudest moments And I say this not as partisan But as a person who brings her mind to what the ICC is all about What are the values and the goals of the Rome statute? And what it means in the broader context the broader global context and for me The ICC is a central pillar of a rule-based international system Rooted in respect for international law and the fight against impunity For the world's gravest crimes of concern to the international community Over 120 states across the world created the international criminal court as an independent judicial institution Complimentary to national jurisdiction Would demand it to investigate and prosecute genocide crimes against humanity war crimes and the crime of aggression With the creation of the international criminal court an important Normative but also structural and system-based message was sent globally That first The commission of mass atrocities as merely politics by other means will no longer receive a pass And that perpetrators irrespective of rank or official status must answer for their crimes Secondly that an international criminal justice system Is crucial to a rule-based global order and Its institutional manifestation in the form of the ICC Is now a reality and an important part and parcel of the global system Today the court benefits from the membership of 123 states parties and has possibly greater reach Due to the court's jurisdictional competence Victims and affected communities are at the center of the international criminal justice system Which was thus created and indeed there are many ways that the courts raise on death And have a crucial role in the ICC proceedings This is exemplified also through the crucial mandate and the work of the trust fund for victims Which as a separate body from the court has as main mission to implement court ordered reparations and to provide physical Psychological and material support to the victims and their families And we all know that Allen is a major supporter and a contributor to the trust fund for victims Against this backdrop With victims of atrocity crimes as its main drivers Since the start of its operations in 2003 The office of the prosecutor has endeavored to implement its crucial mandate To investigate and prosecute Rome statute crimes with full independence and impartiality And in accordance with the legal provisions of the Rome statute that guide our operations A daunting task and responsibility for the mayor fact that the court has As potential Operating theater the territory of as potential as potential operating theater The territory of 123 states parties that have joined the court And beyond Given the powers of the UN Security Council to refer situations to the court As well as the court's extraterritorial reach to also consider the conduct of nationals of states parties Ladies and gentlemen When I became prosecutor in 2012 The court had been functioning for nearly a decade Under the first prosecutor an organizational structure was created The first situations had been selected for investigations in accordance with the prosecute Prosecutorial statutory powers And through a number of early successes achieved by the office in the court The ICC managed to establish itself as an important judicial institution in the multilateral setting At the same time I felt it was important to engage in critical reflection on past performance See where we would build on what was accomplished and to enhance our operations with a view To solidifying the office and there with the court as a permanent institution with long-term perspective and goals The changes we undertook after I assumed office were considerable We launched a number of initiatives concerning strategic direction organizational management and internal office culture And notably we adopted a new drastically different prosecutorial strategy With a major shift in how we investigate and build our cases The strategy amongst other things focused on in-depth investigations And being as trial-ready as possible before triggering the judicial process Diversifying our evidence base with reliance with less reliance on witnesses where possible We also enhance our quality control mechanism streamline and strengthen our administrative procedures improve transparency in how we conduct our work And made significant efforts to build a positive office culture led by organizational values of dedication integrity and respect In all that we do In short, we have sought to strengthen an office that is accountable at all levels Both in terms of performance and professional conduct With a view to continuous improvement Our focus has been on quality rather than quantity to secure successes in court And under my leadership, the office has achieved a number of important litigation successes and landmark decisions Such as the ruling delivered in Myanmar-Bangladesh situation Confirming the court's jurisdiction over the alleged deportation of Rohingya people An investigation which is now open And also the appellate ruling in the head of state immunity in the al-Bashir case in the Darfur-Sudan situation We have also secured important convictions that do not only contribute to delivering justice to victims of mass atrocities But also to the development of international criminal law jurisprudence I'll give you an example In the Natanga case emanating from our investigations in the democratic republic of Congo situation My office secured the conviction of the accused person on all counts Including for the first time in the court's history The crime of sexual slavery as well as the crime of rape against men and women And through this case, we have contributed to emerging jurisprudence by extending the protection on the international humanitarian law to also cover crimes committed by an armed group against members of their own armed group The al-Mahdi case Is another example following our investigations in the situation in Mali The case sent a clear message that the intentional attacks against historic monuments and buildings dedicated to religion Is a serious crime on the international law And this message was widely recognized and amplified as reverberated through a variety of international actors Including our institutional partners at UNESCO who were invested and assisted with this case And earlier this month my office secured the conviction of Dominic Ongwen in relation to the Uganda situation On 61 counts of war crimes and crimes against humanity Which included important conviction on the basis of sexual and gender-based crimes and crimes against children Including for the first time the crimes of forced marriage and forced pregnancy Through these decisions the court sends an important message globally that perpetrators of atrocities Must be and will be held accountable Additionally, we currently have multiple cases in progress at pretrial and trial stages concerning alleged perpetrators from Darfur, Central African Republic, Mali, and Kenya As we speak, the office is busy with ongoing preliminary examinations in multiple situations across the globe to determine in accordance with the strict legal criteria of the Rome Statute If investigations should be initiated and these criteria take into account the court's complementary nature Meaning that it will defer to domestic proceedings where this is possible The preliminary examinations we are currently conducting include the situations in the Philippines Colombia, Guinea, and Venezuela Having just concluded our preliminary examinations with respect to situations in Nigeria, Ukraine, and Iraq Slash UK We are in parallel conducting active investigations meaning we are collecting evidence in order to establish persons most responsible for the commission of the crimes alleged in nine situations including in Mali Bangladesh Myanmar the Central African Republic Libya Darfur and Georgia In Afghanistan, we are currently carefully assessing the documentation that have been received from the government of Afghanistan in support of its request to the office to defer to its national investigations And that process is ongoing With respect to the situation in Palestine The judges of the pretrial chamber recently rendered a ruling by majority clarifying the scope of the court's territorial jurisdiction in that situation following my office's request in that regard last year We welcome this judicial clarity My office is currently analyzing the decision and will then decide its next step guided strictly by its independent and impartial mandate and obligations under the Rome Statute And I wish to emphasize here that my office conducts its activities consistently with utmost professionalism independence and impartiality guided solely by its legal mandate as stipulated in the Rome Statute and the information and evidence that emerges from its preliminary examinations and investigation activities And for me, this is critical to the credibility and longevity of an institution as important as the ICC not least given the political environments in which our cases operate There is increasing evidence based on the growing body of empirical research and criminal justice literature to believe that ICC decisions in particular the prospect of conviction are likely to continue to change the calculus and the behavior of would-be perpetrators More generally one can submit based on studies and practice that the ICC jurisdiction and its work and its engagement and symbiotic relationship with domestic authorities and other actors contribute to ensuring a greater awareness of and the readiness to ensure adequate accountability responses and standards for human rights protection The impact of the court goes well beyond its actions in the courtroom or in the cases in its docket The decisions tangibly demonstrate also the unique contribution my office can make in the fight against impunity for those crimes that we typically that are typically under reported or insufficiently addressed at the domestic level such as the sexual and gender-based crimes crimes affecting or against children and crimes against cultural heritage We have elevated the first two issues to key priorities under the office strategic plans and adopted comprehensive policy papers to highlight the importance of addressing these crimes to elaborate on the applicable legal framework Take a systematic approach to the prosecution of these crimes and to provide a reference to the extent that our work and best practices can be helpful to efforts at the national level A third policy on the protection of cultural heritage within the room-structured framework is currently being finalized and will be launched prior to the end of my mandate Ladies and gentlemen to give full effect to the court's prosecutorial powers Its independent mandate and the room-structured framework That is for the court to function effectively as intended and designed by its drafters It needs to have the support and cooperation from its states parties and other stakeholders including united nations entities and regional organizations such as the european union My office in the exercise of its core functions preliminary examinations investigations and prosecutions Engages with a myriad of actors including early responders in particular during the initial stages of engagement in a situation to ensure the preservation of evidence and domestic authorities throughout the whole process Judicial and law enforcement authorities Provide investigative and operational assistance by furnishing or granting access to information such as official data and records judicial files financial and banking data by facilitating access to diaspora members and asylum and immigration records or by facilitating access to and collection of information from private entities such as social media or other tech companies And I want to seize this opportunity to commend ireland which indeed is a frequent cooperation partner of my office and provides invaluable assistance that helps advance our investigative efforts My office's engagement with its stakeholders is rich and diverse Support is required not only to ensure the requisite level of assistance to our operations But also to enhance diplomatic and political support for our work To protect the court's integrity and independence and to improve the general understanding of the court's mandate We are proud of the relationships of trust and mutual respect that we have fostered during my tenure This is important also because we are at a juncture where as I mentioned concepts and manifestations of multilateralism and the rule-based global order are increasingly challenged and at times even rejected My office and I personally have our own share of experiences in this regard By the nature of its work the court operates in fragile conflict or post-conflict situations during ongoing hostilities or against the backdrop drop of ongoing peace negotiations The court's operating environment is highly politicized and political stakes are usually high in particular when those in power fear investigation and prosecution by the ICC It is therefore no surprise that when the office and the court become involved in a given situation There may be those who fear that our efforts will bring some measure of justice Who will act as a spoiler to peace efforts or Who will who's those who deliberately accuse us of having political motivations or bias? Yes Yet we all know nothing will be further from the truth While sensitive and alert to the circumstances in which we operate my office conduct is activities consistently with independence and impartiality Guided solely by its legal mandate as stipulated in the Rome Statute and the information and evidence that emerges from its preliminary examination In this regard, I wish to recall also as others have said before That the quest for justice and peace can and must be seen as mutually reinforcing imperatives This thought is anchored in the text of the Rome Statute and in the institutional relation Notwithstanding their strict separate mandates between the court and the UN Security Council where Ireland currently holds a seat as a non-permanent member The Security Council holds important tools to ensure a measure of accountability in situations under its attention Including through its power to refer situations for investigations to my office My office looks forward to enhancing synergies and opportunities with with Ireland And the other ICC states parties currently serving on the council Building on the good work done in recent years including through the ICC focal point on the council I know this is also on the minds of those colleagues responsible in the Irish foreign minister And my office stands ready to work together towards those aims Without prejudice to all aforementioned considerations The court and my office in particular have received significant political pushback from some quarters against its independent mandate We have been subjected to unprecedented and wholly unacceptable threats attacks and sanctions This past year for honorably serving the Rome Statute These sanctions and coercive measures must be lifted without further delay They have not and they will not be successful in preventing the court from duly meeting its mandate And I have only brought reputational damage and angst for the authors of such measures Such tactics only beget a lose lose scenario A reset is in order without delay and that reset must start with the lifting of all coercive measures And a constructive engagement and respect for the Rome Statute system of international criminal justice And while the court and its states, states parties including Ireland demonstrated resilience Including by publicly denouncing such measures and tactics Our shared values and commitments under the Rome Statute have been seriously tested We should continue to withstand efforts from potent forces determined to undermine the court in order to shield themselves From the legitimate scrutiny legal scrutiny that the statute demands as the court continues To dutifully fulfill its important mandate in situations requiring its attention We must dispel dishonest attacks or deliberate misrepresentations of the court's work and mandate We must continue to stand firm in our resolve and speak with one voice That the commission of mass atrocities as mere politics by other means will no longer receive a pass And that perpetrators irrespective of or frank or official status must answer for their crimes We must continue to work for the victims of atrocity crimes who look at the court as a last beacon of hope What is right and the suffering and plight of victims of atrocity crimes Must not be sacrificed at the altar of political expediency Today what is required is more justice and accountability not less Ladies and gentlemen, we ought to distinct Undue attacks from genuine efforts to improve the court's functioning I do not wish to unintentionally create any impression that my office is not open to criticism In relation to its functioning on the contrary My office has and will continue to embrace well-founded critique as an opportunity for for self reflection and ultimately growth And as I put it to you at the start of my lecture The office under my direction Committed to a culture of continuous learning and improvement We recognize that setbacks can serve as a learning experience and an opportunity to make improvements were required And this embrace of change management is reflected alone In the three consecutive strategic plans issued during my term And in the same spirit of improvement, we have also engaged in the independent expert review Which was commissioned by the state parties as an opportunity to enhance the effectiveness of the court And the Rome started system in line with our own policy our own philosophy And commitment to take the office and the effective discharge of our mandate to the next level We're looking to the report of the independent experts external experts that was issued last september for inspiration And fact-based actionable recommendation Which we can then carry forward with this overall objective in mind And a full response of the court to the report is currently being prepared and will be submitted to states parties before the end of match But by the same token The commitments and contributions of the court states parties in operational political and financial terms Should be part and parcel of this review exercise If changes are to be made that can truly strengthen the court and its laudable goals To ensure its success for the next generation I have been on record in recent years To express my honest concern over the incompatibility Of the court's mandate with the resources allocated to it And this is a real tension between the court's foundational goals And the demands that have been placed upon the institution on the one hand And the capacity of the court in particular that of my office on the other This dilemma cannot be resolved merely by demanding greater prioritization by the office It requires a strategic discussion among states parties and other stakeholders I only have a few more months left to serve as prosecutor of the ICC And during my term I have done everything in my power To honor the trust and the responsibility bestowed upon me by the states parties By implementing the crucial prosecutorial mandate to the best of my ability And always in accordance with the legal confines of the Rome Statute With integrity, independence and impartiality and the plight of victims and affected communities in mind And I will continue to do so until my term runs out in June Following last week's election of the next prosecutor, I intend to engage in discussions with my successor, Mr. Karim Khan To ensure that he is in the best possible position to carry forward the important work and the mandate of the office in the service of the Rome Statute Mr. Khan brings with him a wealth of experience and acumen to lead the office And we welcome him to the post when he assumes office in June of this year I have already held productive preliminary discussions with Mr. Khan, which I intend to continue with regular interactions and exchanges as we move towards the end of my mandate My office stands ready to fully support this transition I trust that states parties will afford Mr. Khan strong cooperation and support as I have benefited from throughout my term I understand my learned colleague, Fergal Geno, is also in the audience today And I also wish to seize the occasion here to congratulate him on his appointment as an international judge at the Kosovo Specialist Chambers And for how close he came in the process of electing the next ICC prosecutor To extend to him my admiration and to wish him the very best. It is good to virtually see you Fergal Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to close To close by stating that we must do all we can to ensure that security Stability and the protective embrace of the law becomes a reality to be relished by all in all corners of the world Ultimately, international criminal justice with the ICC at its core serves humanity as a whole I believe this message is well understood in Ireland, as your constitution affirms in article 29 The country's devotion to the ideal of peace and friendly cooperation amongst nations Founded on international justice and morality Let us carry forward our work with this devotion and the hope that it can be replicated For the sake of victims of atrocity crimes the world over and for the sake of our future generations The ICC is here to say It deserves our unflinching support, not for its own sake, but for the sake of humanity I will I will repeat that The ICC is here to stay It deserves our unflinching support, not for its own sake, but for the sake of humanity So I thank you all for your attention and I look forward to our exchange in the question and answer session Thank you very much Thank you very very much, uh, mrs. Benzuda if we were in a room with you, we will be standing up and applauding you As you say the court is here to stay your legacy remains even as you yourself move on in the coming months Um, you mentioned, of course, we have a very distinguished audience including as you mentioned judge gainer who who from the cost of our specialist chambers and also from the As a prosecutor in the in the extraordinary chambers in the courts of cambodia and fraggle as you know, we're very very proud of you and We also of course wish the very greatest of success to Karim Khan QC Who will hopefully be able to steer the court Along the on the office of the prosecutor along the course that you have indicated And uh, you know, we hope that he like you Madam prosecutor will represent the values of independence impartiality and above all integrity Because you have that in spades as we say um So there are as you can imagine a plethora of questions from a very eager audience But we can't go through all of them. I suppose I'm going to ask I would normally if we were live ask people to You know take two or two three questions at a time. I don't think we necessarily need to do that here But let me just start. Um First of all, I'm going to just Abuse my privilege as chair Um and ask you You've come almost to the end of your mandate. Can you tell us? the King of which you're most proud Uh during your nine years as prosecutor and could you also tell us your biggest regret? Uh during your nine years as prosecutor. Thank you, uh, mrs. Bansuda Thank thank you. Thank you for that. Thank you for that. Um question, um As I said in my lecture, uh, this is uh A term that I have seen as um As a privilege As to have had the privilege to serve in this position and from the very beginning I I I think I have Decided to give it my very best My very very best. I've mentioned this several times in full independence and impartiality and respect for the position that was Um that I was elected to Um, and I will just start. I mean, it's it's a lot to say That I feel it's uh my greatest achievement as as my term, but I'll just try to summarize it and uh, we'll say that The first thing that I did upon taking taken office um was to to to Bring along and very very carefully explained to my Senior staff that we needed to invest significant efforts to office building first and foremost and uh, I believe this is uh part of my greatest contribution And I and I think I I believe it will be agreed that it has brought important dividends To the office and to the ICC as a as a whole Um, because after I carefully, uh, I had a careful analysis of past successes and failures Uh during my term I and having had the benefit Of being the deputy prosecutor before assuming the position of uh, uh prosecutor Um, I decided together with my team that we will promulgate some sweeping changes across the office Which will concern a strategic direction organizational management internal office culture. I thought that was important and adopted in the process some some new procedural strategy Which as I said in my lecture Gave us a major shift in how we investigate and build our cases We also try to enhance our quality control mechanism. We try to streamline And strengthen our administrative procedures We I I said it was important to improve transparency in how we conduct our work And also made significant efforts to build a positive office culture Including as I said The code of conduct for my office from the very beginning The core values you can see it at my back. This is what my my office has been guided by throughout My term in office all all staff and we were all trained starting from myself to deputy prosecutor senior staff everybody was strained in this core values of the office and also to have To be to be guided strictly by the code of conduct of the office This is this is these are things I thought I could I could also do. There is also the um Poly the the comprehensive policy papers that I was able to To launch to bring out Such as those relating to sexual and gender based crimes the crimes against children and also to elaborate on applicable legal framework and and and take A systematic approach to to prosecutions so Like the like the case selection and prioritization policy, which is which is also taken out And as I said, I'm I'm still working on it's almost done working on the policy and cultural heritage So and then what we did was throughout my term we keep we kept these policies under review And also assess how we apply them Um and as an office that is committed to a culture of continuous learning and improvement Uh, then we also recognize that uh setbacks can serve as a learning experience and also as an opportunity To make improvement where we are required. So, um, this is this is uh, not to mention Some of the cases that uh, as you know, I said it in my In my lecture some of the cases and the important Innovations that have been made and contributions that have been made To international criminal law and international criminal jurisprudence. I I I don't want to repeat them here But those are things that have happened I was also able to Work very closely with external partners including Including states parties for instance on the continent on the african continent You do know that there was a time when it was really very very tough For for for the court and the office and there were threats of withdrawal I worked very hard on this with African leaders and also partners on the african continent To bring about more understanding of what this court is all about. It is not about targeting africa It is not about going after african states of hate states heads of state And I think this Served in the long run together with other efforts that have been made From my office, but also across the court and uh other partners other states parties And I I I think we have been able to see success An achievement in that regard to the extent that We have been able to improve on our relationship with africa as a as a as a continent And also to be able to do our work So even even after all that threat the threats of withdrawal, you were able to see that We had referrals from the african continent and and here I had in mind the referral from Not only codivoire, but also from central african republic and also And also the the fact that we were able to engage With the new government of Sudan Even after all the problems that we have had we've been able to engage and we are hoping that this engagement will go forward So in a nutshell This is uh, I'm summarizing here in a nutshell. This is what we have been focused on and I think these are achievements for the Not only the credibility of the institution, but also for the longevity of the of the constitution I'm sorry of the of the of the room statute and the court I I think the room statute has Very very laudable goals and everything that can be done in the service of those laudable goals Is what was Driving myself and my office Well, thank you. Thank you again. Uh, this is benzuda. There are so many questions so little time, but I'll try and Just give a selection because We'll see how many you can answer and apologies to those. I can't bring into the discussion But again, look at I think what you've said Throughout this time we've been together. It's very resonant for an irish audience. You know, we have a long history of war and famine Uh, and uh, we are particularly committed for that reason to protection of victims and to to bringing To account perpetrators of mass violations of human rights Um So there have been as I say many many questions I'll give the first word to to judge fergo gainer who who just wants to Express his thanks to you today for your talk and to you for your your nine years of hard work at the helm of OTP We're also as as you can expect there are in such an audience An irish audience is particularly interested in the question of palestine and we're lucky enough to have with us today The ambassador of palestine to arland his excellency Dr. Jalan will have a And I on his behalf. I would just like to welcome you again today And the ambassador would call meeting you in dublin in 2013 and And encountering you again over the years And then he refers of course to the difficult and may I say incredibly Uh a decision that was worthy of respect in relation to the situation in palestine You referred that question to the pre-child chamber of the rcc Which seems to certainly me speaking in my individual capacity The most appropriate and responsible thing that a prosecutor could do And as we know the pre-child chamber has in fact said that given the green light Uh for the investigation to go ahead and the ambassador just says That uh, he he he's uh, he's looking forward. I think to that investigation And hoping that perpetrators will be held accountable for violations of international law And as we know in this difficult and tragic situation all sides have been guilty of war crimes The court will not end the commission of war crimes But what it urges states and other entities to do is to hold to account Those responsible both on the opposite side of a conflict and most importantly on on their own side So you may have a comment on that you probably won't want to to discuss the specifics But that's one very important and welcome comment and thank you ambassador for that I'd also speaking of ambassadors two of my colleagues and two of my good friends are in the audience today ambassador Mary Whelan who you know, well who was ambassador to the Netherlands and to the icc and Played a very important role in 2010 2011 as coordinator of the icc assembly of states parties and cooperation an ambassador organized a very successful A seminar in the review conference at campala on cooperation And she again, thanks you for your talk And has a question specifically as to how the court might improve The deterrent effect it's having on on perpetrators and then somebody you also met in campala ambassador kevin kelly former ambassador gander now in the Netherlands himself who Reflects on on on a comment that you made in your speech about the work of the independent expert Review a panel and asks, you know, what can be gleaned From that report that's a particularly used to otp What you'll be able to do in your remaining time here and what tasks you'll be handing over to to mr. Can Then finally Because say time is very tight. We have a question from And I can't find her name right now But from a a new resident of Ireland A a woman whose family Became refugees Because of the the the atrocities being committed in Syria And she asks what can the icc do for the victims of such atrocities other people have asked questions in relation to syria The zd so many different questions, but she asked in particular. What can the court do? What can you do for the victims in syria? I suppose bearing in mind that technically the icc has no jurisdiction Um over territory of syria because of the failure of the security council to refer the situation Um, but there may be nonetheless circumstances in which jurisdiction can be exercised So those are the questions to you and we may have to indeed wrap up after that because I see We're at five minutes to two o'clock. So, uh, I'll hand back to you now Mrs. Benzuda and just take back the floor to finally say farewell to you again. Thank you um Thank you. Thank you very much again for for those questions indeed very all very important and needing clarification and Perhaps I should I should just say I should start Maybe by saying that With the last question on on syria. I will start from there because I I know you have already dealt with it But just to again Clarify that the icc does not have jurisdiction over Unfortunately over what is happening in in syria because syria is not a state party and the other only other way that icc could could possibly have had jurisdiction is Like what happened with libya? or what happened with the Darfur sudan a referral from the un security council Asking the icc to intervene Upsend that and and of course icc does not never goes to the un security council and say you need to refer this They act on the powers that are vested in them under the un charter. So I uh, I just wanted to say that This is this is the major obstacle that we face as uh as a court um, also, maybe I should I should just say that Um, we have a lot of communications that we have received in syria and very similar to this uh, and Really some that we also Attached some great importance to so what we are doing is that we are finalizing a response To all the standards of communication with with respect to syria To explain clearly and carefully what what what this is and but also with respect to other communications that warrants further analysis Which will be I think this we will issue it before the end of my term And it will cover, uh, perhaps I should I should just say that not to preempt Questions on that but to say that we will cover, uh, mexico Mexico there will be a Response to standards of communications. We will also talk about cyprus The settlements that have a reason we will talk about yemen with respect to the arm exporters I I I think these are potential questions Mr. Kinston that could arise so I I just want to put it out there that we are Preparing answers for that. We also Do have an issue we're dealing with currently is with respect to cambodia The land grabbing issue We're dealing with that we'll provide responses to that and then we'll also there is a it's another particular Question which I know we've received a lot of communication on and it has to do with syria Jordan and the deportation issue So we're we're dealing with these these things currently and we will certainly be sending out Responses to the communications. Just just so that those who have these questions in their minds could could really Could know could can know that the icc is is Thinking and dealing with I I also want to wanted to Will go to the the the question from ambassador wheeling Um, who I'm I'm very very happy that is in the in the in the audience I he's she's one very committed to the icc ambassador we we worked very very hard with her and Like our current ambassador also ambassador kelly It's very much committed to the icc to strengthening the icc and seeing that the court was so I I I'm not able to see you on the screen, but I knowing that you're there. You're there is very comforting As well, and I know that your interest in the in the icc continues um ambassador wheeling we had the um The ier the independent experts review And I have said at the very beginning that the purpose of that exercise Is to look for ways in which the court can be strengthened Can be improved. There is no institution that will say that it is perfect and has got everything right So after after all these years of operation, I I I believe I've said it from the very beginning of the IER I believe that it was a time to stop And to look at where we are what is going well What is not going well what needs to be improved what needs to be changed what needs to be adjusted Um, I I've always said that the uh, we have to constantly continue to improve That's that's that's what an institution that wants to be effective does So we are currently looking at the recommendations of the IER as I said in my in my um in my lecture that we're supposed to Have a management response to those Recommendations that have been made and we hope to do that by the end of uh march. We are definitely working on it and again, this is all For the improvement of the court. So this is uh, this is what uh, we are we are doing. There were several recommendations several I think over 200 Of course, some of them, uh, we find they're very very good recommendations. Uh, some we need we think that It's probably not going to be so helpful as To to to to assist the court, but all of this will be definitely put in the report and the reasons why So I I think I will just for lack of time I will just pack it there But I I want to assure you that we engaged in this process and I believe ambassador kelly can also attest to that We engaged in the process. We provided all the documents That the ir needed the experts needed we we we made our staff available to them From the prosecutor to the deputy prosecutor all of us and we provided them with everything that we felt would assist them In this important assignment. They were given and we will take it further because of course it's good to do Um an exercise like that, but it is more important to implement Uh, the the recommendations of the exercise. So we are we are working on that Um with respect to palestine Uh, I I think I have explained again And you have mentioned, uh, mr. Kinston about where we are I mean, I uh, this is a this is a um This is a situation that since 2015 um after a referral from from palestine and after an acceptance Of the jurisdiction of the icc On the article 12 of the rome statute I assessed That this is a matter that the icc can that my office can open preliminary examinations on And we did that It it is a situation that we all know is very complex both legally and factually And uh, we we we we gave it a very very careful Consideration assessment analysis collecting all the information that we felt we need And we increased the team that was working on it and uh in 2019 I I felt together with my team we assessed that uh, this is a matter that the all the criteria Under the rome statute again, we always working under the rome statute under the laws It is nothing to do with politics never has been never will be And we decided that the legal criteria for opening and investigations has been met However, we said because of the fact that this situation is so fraught With legal and factual controversies. It is something that perhaps as a responsible prosecutor I needed to go before the judges And to say this is what I this is what my assessment is But I would want you as judges To help us define the territorial scope of jurisdiction where we can go and where we cannot go um, and the judges have come back after After a year plus They have come back come back Saying that indeed Prosecutor Ben Souda the office has been correct to make this assessment and these are you These are this is the legal um criteria that you will you will you Has been and I also wanted to to Inform that When we collected information We engaged both parties And both parties I I mean both parties to the conflict We engaged both with Palestine and with Israel And we had several meetings in which we listened To either party we collected information which we added to our own analysis before finally coming to so it is not that My office has just gone and and blindly Collected information from elsewhere not from the parties or from one party and not another we engaged both parties And came to a conclusion and now that the judges have made this determination. They looked at it. They said you were right You know, you you you have this is your territorial scope And you have a right to To look into to investigate into the situation. So as I said in my In my reaction To the decision I have said that my office is analyzing again. We do things very carefully We're analyzing the the judgment what the judges have said And what does it mean and then we will take the next steps as necessary So this is this is where where we are with the situation in Palestine And again, I I just want to As the judges have recognized We have not asked We also have not determined the issue of statehood of Palestine. I think this is outside of my mandate So I have never Requested for this. We've also not been talking about border Issues of border that is not my mandate and I have stayed away from it And having looked at all the information I have Before me I have also said Parties from either side There are allegations of crime being committed from either side of the conflict and this is what I had surrendered also to the to the Judges and it is very sad. I must say that those who choose to misinform Continue to say that The office is after one side of the conflict and not the other These are all misinformation that we need to do to dispel Because that is not the situation and people the record is there and it's itself People should go back to the record and read it and see the careful work that we have carried out in this situation Great. Well, thank you again. This has been so you've been very generous in terms of of your answer A couple of small points. First of all apologies on my part. I I forgot the mislead the name of our syrian colleague miss gaffran Kulani apologies for that and I also inadvertently referred to the palestinian ambassador Uh her excellency as as a man, which is a very elementary mistake that one should not make And my apologies for that, but thank you to her for for her presence here today Look, we really don't have very much time So I want to say thanks once more to to you madame prosecutor And thanks, of course to the institute to to to to michael to jill to to lorcan to ross and the others involved in making this event a success But particularly thanks to you again. This has been suda and I look forward to your return visit And hopefully we will have another beautiful evening in go away We will look on to the sea and we will eat a beautiful fish dinner and then go for a And I will have those delicious seafood Absolutely Cheers to you best of luck. Thank you very much