 Ricky believes in free coaching. You're saying it. They haven't had those people training. Ricky's not coaching. He's training. He knows. Oh, okay. Okay. Now we got something to talk about, but listen, but listen, here's the thing. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of road to 10,000. I'm Ricky Caruth. And I'm with my guy Juan Carlos as always. And today we have a very special guest. This guy is a living legend in the real estate industry. And I mean, this guy actually at one point sold over 200 houses with his wife and became one of the major real estate coaches in the industry and was actually my only coach, right? So I played, I paid this guy $1,000 per month for four months back in 2015 to talk to me once a week. And I'm really excited for this, this conversations interview. I want to welcome Mr. Tim Harris to the podcast. What's up, my guy? How many years ago was that, Ricky? 2015. Oh my God, I'm getting old. How old were you? How old were you then? You were like fresh, weren't you? Fresh? I was 34, I guess. See, yeah. Yeah, I was like 34, something like that. You're older than 40 now. I'll be 40. I'll be 40 next month. Tim, you are, Tim, you are the coaches of coaches. No, he wants to make us be professional, but we're just having fun. Well, you know, I don't like being called a living legend because I'm not that old, but I'll take it, Ricky. No, I think you are. I mean, to me, you are, right? And that's really all that matters right here on this podcast. Ricky, so straight up, straight up what you've done in your career. It's, you're like, you know, though, I don't even know what percent it is. You, you went, you went from having no sales background really, and you totally and completely got into real estate and you did the real work of real estate. That's something that this whole generation, they don't even know how to do, but you did it, man. You grinded it out, you did the real work, and that's the reason you dominated. So what you're experiencing now at EXP as a direct result of the fact that you learned how to grind the right way and didn't over, you know, you didn't double down on dumb when you got into business. You actually did the real work of real estate. Mad respect for real, dude. There's not very many people. I mean, you are going to be a living legend. You know, you're the one. There's how many people your age and you're not even that old, but I mean, I'll make, I'll make you feel just for fun, but how many people your age actually even know how to have the skill set to actually do the real work of real estate. You know, it's like five, five people total. You understand what I'm saying? Yeah. Because anybody that came into real estate after 2008, 2009, they were just basically thrown in the, you know, the sea of full of just swamp things, teaching people how to buy leads, work on your branding, build your team, do all this other stuff. And you were smart enough to go directly after the people that had their hands in their air say, yes, I want to sell my house. Don't you think honestly, Ricky, that seems a little just ridiculous that people are confused that if they want to make money, the quickest helping people that they would just go after the people that already had their hands in their air saying, yes, I want to sell my house. Doesn't that seem insane? Dude, there's a lot of things that seem insane to me right now. To be honest with you. Yeah. And that's one of them, but I really appreciate that, man. That means a lot. Do you even remember, do you just think back and just honestly, do you remember any of our coaching sessions? Yeah, I want to know. What was that like? I'll tell you what I remember. I'll tell you what I remember. You were a mad man. I'll tell you, I'll tell you, you're certain things out personally. You're much calmer now than you were then. I do remember that. I do remember you, you had worked on an oil rig. I do remember that. I do remember you told me you got hit in the head. I do remember that. I remember you were ruthless with your intention. In other words, you were, you were on these people that say you were going to do something like with everyone says, you know, I'm going to make 20 contacts and then the next week you'd show up, you'd made 30, that kind of thing. That's what I remember. I remember that because very few people act like that. I acted like that. Julie acted like that, but very few people do. I'm sure at this point, dude, you've been in this game long enough, you, how many people do you run into that just blah, blah, blah. They're tall hat, no cattle. Yeah. They talk about what they're going to do. They make the Instagram videos. They do all this branding and they want to talk about their big visions, but they're not willing to go in onto the oil rig and risk getting hit in the head and do the real work. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. And that's the reason you're killing a DXP now because you learned how to do the real work. Yeah. How about that? Yeah. No, no, no, it's absolutely true. Let's go back, man. I want to hear a little bit. I'm sure everybody wants to hear just a piece when I would spend a whole lot of time on it, but I want to hear a little piece about your actual real estate sales career. You know, when you started kind of how it went like how you got up to a certain point and then transition into the coaching industry. I just want to, I just want to hear that. Okay. It's kind of boring, but all right. So I mean, it's kind of boring and we can make it really short. I just want to come and we'll make it really short. Yeah. I just want to hear the short end of it because I did it because it's an amazing story. I mean, you got up to selling over 200 properties a year and then you get into the coaching scene. And I mean, you just told the story. There was this. I'm out. No, our first year in the business we sold and Julian, so Julie and I got, we've been married for 30 years this year. How about that? We got married, we got married and we were 2021 and we bought our first house when we were 22 and 23. So we've been in real estate. I'm 51. So we've been in real estate for more than 25 years. And when we started selling real estate, got our licenses, our first full year in the business, we sold 103 houses with our pendants. And as far as I know, no one's ever done that before. No one's ever done that sense. Now, if you think I'm saying that we're some sort of business sales geniuses back then to do that, we weren't. We just basically worked hard. And that's, we didn't even count how many houses. I told the story before, but I think it's funny. Julie and I were sitting outside a movie theater in Dublin, Ohio, waiting for a movie to start some Friday evening or something. And we were trying to remember and add up how many houses we'd sold. And this was like in July. So he called our broker and his name was Rory Averill is, you know, it's fantastic broker. And we said, Rory, how many houses is like what's good for a sold in a year? Like what is something that, you know, is special? And he goes, this is exactly how the conversation went. He goes, how many have you sold? And we said, well, we sold. We think about 75 and he goes, call me, call me back when you get to a hundred click. It's all he said. That was in July, you know, so we did. And then after that, what I didn't realize was that remax was paying attention. National Association of Realtors is paying attention. All these other organizations and this was pre-internet, you know, and so what happened then was we got all this national press and just to frame this out. Prior to getting to real estate, I had a Carclean and detailing business, you know, and we are in college. Okay. And so our first year in business, we did this and then what happened is the result of that of this sort of, you know, I don't know what you want to call it. I'll call it fame was really uncomfortable and then we didn't know what to say. Yes to what say no to and we're flying different states. You've done stuff like this, right? You know, I'm talking about. Yeah. And it's like, and then you realize it takes your eye off the ball. We are our original mission was to own enough paid off rental properties by the time I was 40 and Julie was 39 that we would be able to live off our cash flow. It took us a year longer. I was 41 and she was 40, but we accomplished it. We stayed on mission, but there's so many things that you like that big, you know, burst of fame when we are in our formal easily impressionable years, you know, that got us off track for like a year or two. Then we got back on track because our accountant said, you know what? You guys are making, you're selling more houses now and you're making more money. This is at like year three or whatever. This is when we were doing different speaking events, we didn't realize, you know, we didn't know about coaching. Coaching didn't even exist really. And then he said, so you guys are selling more units, making more money. We're getting more attention, right? More plaques and awards and shit, but then he showed me our, you know, profit loss said, but you're making less than that income. So it's like, okay, well, we're off mission. We need to get back on mission. And that's what we did. So that was a really good lesson for us that people nowadays aren't even having the opportunity to learn. But from that, so we are hard Britain. Sorry, were you making less money? Net profit. Not less money. I mean, I mean, I mean, yeah, net profit. Why were you expecting going off? We started to spend money. We started to spend money on dumb things. We started to spend money on things that to support our fame. We started to do things. Yeah, like going out to eat nice restaurants and spending money like, you know, not. Yeah, some of that, but also some like stupid marketing things that, you know, you know, that you, the shit you do. You're thinking that one day it's going to get a result. This is the reason when, you know, coaching you or coaching somebody else. I say, well, there, here's the truth behind postcards. You know, here's the truth behind this internet thing. Here's the truth behind this. The reason those people selling you those things will never give you or will never answer the question. What's my return on investment is because there won't be one and all they're trying to do is sell into your egos desire to be famous. And so what I learned then, and I didn't put all the works together and this is an interesting question for you guys, especially Juan. I think Juan is even younger than you, Ricky. Yeah, he's about a little bit younger. So, I mean, the question you got to ask yourself just a little bit. Oh, he's grinding you. I caught that. Good work. So the question, the question you got to ask yourself when you're in your formidable years and would you rather be famous or rich and you can't be both? So if you have to choose between rich or being famous, what would you choose? And nowadays, and I've asked that question tens of millions of times of coaching clients when they're younger, they always say, they always say, they argue with the question, oh, we can be both. And then they'll say, well, I'd rather be famous. And then, you know, as they get older, they realize that fame doesn't get you any. You can't eat it fame. You can't eat fame, right? And so then they all regret having sought being rich over being famous and that this generation is especially plagued with that. That's what's really unfortunate. But to finish out what your question was, Ricky. So we got involved in Howard Britton, Howard Britton made us Julie and I stars. I think it was 96 or 97. And then we're at a higher Britton conference and we are in the back of the room. This is before your time. I don't. Do you know who Howard Britton is? You remember him? Yeah, he passed away. It was anyway. So we was a real estate coach. He would know he know he was like he was pretty much in his day. He was pretty much the guy. So back in the day, you had Howard Britton and if you were a Howard Britton star of the month, that was essentially like you are being invited to be a night at the roundtable. There were this was pre Internet. Remember, this was back when people read the real estate, the realtor Association magazine, right? This was a big deal when you got that realtor Association magazine was like, oh my gosh, I have to set this kind of like y'all's MLS, right? Look at y'all. Look at see how this is the age thing. This is the underlying being calling each other old. No, I'm talking about the National Association of Roaders. Today's roller magazine. Oh, I got you. Yeah, that's where they had their 40 under 40. That's what they got you. Yeah. They still do that. But that back in the day, that magazine was huge. It was really thick and it was something that people really look forward to. Just I'm trying to frame it out compared to the juxtaposition to today. So Howard Britton would do. He would invite you to show up at a studio someplace and he would do an interview with you and it would be sort of, you know, not less tactical and practical like what you guys do and more focused on, you know, the personal side of things, that kind of thing, getting to know you types and then you'd have these two, he would have annual retreats and the stars would, I won't worry the rest of the details. So he goes in front of a room of probably, I don't know, 2,500 people and Julie and I are in the back and I remember he said, I'm going to start a coaching business to your question and I, you know, he just was getting started thinking about this and we're about to have a break and all of those of you who are interested in having us coach you and there was like three of them had gotten, you know, is Howard and two other people who work for him. I want you to come up and break and put your business card on the stage and I remember being the back of the room and seeing like half the room just, you know, it looked like snow on the stage all the business cards sitting the stage and Julie and I are in the back when we're like, huh, that'll just happen, you know, this is like I'm telling you the truth and then at that same break people started asking us are you guys going to coach you're going to coach and the first person I said yes to maybe the second was a guy named Michael Gordon and you guys can Google him him his wife or still one of the most successful couples in real estate. They sell multi million dollar states in the mainline. They were one of my original clients we met at that time at that Howard Britain conference and I didn't know what coaching was. I didn't know what to charge. You know, I knew nothing but we just, we just did it and then what happened was the coaching business, the net profit from the coaching business started out pasting the net profit from the real estate business. And then from there we went on a couple different trajectories but the real estate the real estate business the problem ultimately selling real estate but is the income transactional you know whereas in a coaching business you can have recurring revenue and with recurring revenue than you could you know depending on what your turn rate is you can actually spin that up into something that you can start predictably peeling the money off and doing investing with there's that word bro. I knew it was going to come up. Oh yeah, but isn't that the game? Sure. I'm not look I'm not right. This dude loves this word churn dude. Did you go like that? Tim Tim, I got a question for you. What's the churn rate on the average client and coaching is it two three months? Is it a year? Like how long before they usually say I don't need this coach anymore they move on. Well, it depends on what the industry is right. I mean a lot of this has been studied the average churn rate for most coaching organizations is probably close to 90% maybe 95% most coaching organizations burn through their clients every single year and the other coaching organizations Julie and I were associated with it was right around theirs and ours is typically around 55% you know 55-56% it really is tied to the market honestly. So if the market's really strong people stay forever. We have people that have been with us for over a decade. We have personal clients have been with us for like 15 years. We dude it's so creepy as I think about you know we have people who I knew them when they were starting their families had their kids and now their kids are freaking graduating from high school and often in college and some of them graduate from college. Right. I mean talking to some of these people and I've known them for so long I almost forget how much time has passed. So that's a blessing I think it's kind of amazing. And let me ask you Tim so so as being a coach like wouldn't they get your knowledge over that 10-15 year period or are you always teaching them something new or is it just an accountability that's a great question Carlos and I think that's the reason that people will quit is that their coaches and themselves at constantly expanding and making themselves better that's actually that questions more insightful than I think you intended for it to be but that's the number one thing if you hire someone that has that doesn't constantly isn't constantly self-improving themselves you know isn't constantly looking for the next level themselves they're going to become complacent and that's naturally going to translate to their actual coaching calls and that's the reason that when you plug into somebody's done system like a you know a center of influence and past client coaching thing and they have a book of you know a series of 12 calls and all the whole thing that's not coaching I don't even know that is honestly they don't even my daughter's seven almost seven and a half and they take a dynamic approach to her learning just like but that's not how it typically works in this industry so true coaching isn't really what's happening in the industry right now most of what's happening is training and training by people that frankly aren't you know look if you're going to hire a coach you guys argue with me on this point first of all you have to hire a coach that has had a real estate license in the past would you agree that it's stupid not the starting point yeah but don't you think honestly let's we could just hover there yeah don't you think it's insane that people are paying agents are paying people have never sold real estate before to coach them explain that to me I don't understand it no I'm I'm sure I've been that's been the debacle for me from day one with this whole thing you know what in the world is going on what in the world is going on and and then the coaches who who've been in the business two years sold 19 properties you're getting my second point don't stack of my next next point you're doing so have they had a license okay then the second question is did they sell 100 houses in a year just okay that's that's the first two filters then the third filter is how they actually sold over a hundred houses for five years in a row so they could have sold a hundred houses in a year and they could have been their uncle's subdivision or they could have been a tower in Miami right I don't think that counts right that doesn't count a bunch of give me listings doesn't count they have to have been doing it like Ricky did like Julie and I did like all of our coaching clients you have to go out really good so okay they had one good year but then they have soft soft more slides and fail well then you look up if you're really looking to hire a good coach then you look at someone that sold over a hundred houses for a year for at least five years in a row you with me mm-hmm those next ones gonna knock everyone out you have to look for someone that's had at least 10,000 paid coaching calls how many people in the industry like that so let me ask you Tim and this is a controversial subject Ricky believes in free coaching you're saying it they haven't had Ricky's training Ricky's not coaching he's training he knows the oh oh okay okay now we got now we got something to talk about but listen but listen here's the thing the the markets voted on rickster okay he wouldn't have he wouldn't be doing what he's doing in his life at exp especially on YouTube especially if his training didn't have value but he Rick you know you're not coaching you're training you can't you can't coach in a big mass you know listen only mode you know the dance well I mean the way I see it is is the content out there and the coach the coaching quote unquote program is training right it's how here's how you sell real estate step one two three four boom this is how I do it here's the programs and everything else but what goes on behind the scenes right there's all kinds of calls I talk to agents all day long and those those are coaching those are coaching like I'm I'm it's it's it's um it's navigate you know through the frustrations and through the ups and downs and you know where to go next and how to structure your day and things like that so behind the scenes coaching out on front street training can I respectfully challenge you on that even absolutely because I coached you and you know so I know you know the difference right okay well so here's the thought for you training is teaching training your training is basically standing in front a group of people that is easy compared to coaching coaching is like tutoring right right so coach coaching is basically one on one asking questions that are designed to basically move the other person along and that takes a hell of a lot of skill and you can't fake it now most most people know the difference because they've never had that experience before yeah they think they're training is coaching but it's not right and and honestly 90% of the products we sell are training they're not coaching because finding really good coaches as they bitch yeah most people will never put in the time to come probably because we're I don't even know why we did in retrospect be honest with you you know we did it because it was a challenge because we wanted to become really really great at something we like we're so much better at this than we were at real estate it's not even funny we wanted you know the book that you know mostly Julie wrote that is kind of funny even though our names I mean this when I look at the sales in this book that's an affirmation of basically and but there's no coaching in here it's all training that's what this says the coaching is really separated when when that person's actually holding them accountable is that what it is it's not more it's more than accountability I mean I could we could do it if I don't want to make you uncomfortable but we can have a little conversation right now I mean Ricky knows Ricky knows I'm talking about I mean you you have to cut through people's bullshit and get at the heart of what really motivates them right so let me show you share with you guys a story but before you get into that how much of the coaching is actually you helping them on the personal development side as opposed to actually teaching them real estate you mean I mean especially real estate you can't teach without the other yeah there's no separation I mean when you when you want to when you want any kind of business but especially a small business you have the antivirus software that's constantly running in your head right so even if you're and so people think that they can have separation of business and personal life and be successful is doesn't exist that's bullshit because it's always running in your head and a lot of people feel guilty because they're thinking about business when with their families well guess what that's the way it works you have to think like that if you want to be successful if you don't want to be successful then you're in conflict with that you're you're fighting your antivirus software so that's the reason it's intertwined ultimately that's a great question though one I agree kicking your I agree asking the question that's the contest that they're right there we just got it I'm going to frame it big headline you know that's what we need yeah what there's but there's a lot of there's a lot of there's so much bullshit that's being perpetuated but it's not just specifically from the coaching industry to it's just like you know all these little things that people say like follow your passion the money will fall not true you have to have balance in your life not true you know and this whole generation of agents that are coming up we'll look at I mean we look at buyer agency how many agents right now when they get into their business are said told to work with buyers yeah and and before and before working with sellers was the mental labor working with with buyers is the physical labor can we agree to that yeah okay and so in other words working with buyers was easier than working with sellers because it was less skills based but I'll go I'll say not only is it more skills based now to work with buyers yeah but you you mean in today's market of a very inventory and multiple it's brutal yeah yeah yeah and get this Ricky commissions are following are they following buyer agent commissions following in your market not yeah they're following basically they're following all over the United States if you want may give you numbers on that I will but it's you know I just gave you the bottom line and then you have this other thing is happening is there's more people getting real state licenses now in a history of real state all those people during covid guess what they were doing after they put on their covid 19 yeah decided to go to real state champions against licenses and so our friends that own those companies you know a civil and some of these other companies they're telling us there's such a huge amount of people that are waiting to get their licenses and what are all those agents going to do when they get their licenses they're going to be told to work on with buyers work on with buyers exactly man and so if you're an agent now thinking it's hard to work with buyers you can have another probably six months on the outside and you're going to have more people that are competing you with for those buyers whereas before you really have to compete with them your commissions are falling it's made me harder for you to find or put somebody in contract that's just a reality yeah yeah you know I've got agents that are working with buyers and they say Ricky how do we get these multiple these these how do we get my buyers offer accepted you know and I'm like well number one let's try to work with more sellers right number one but let's talk about the buyer situation and in the same breath they're talking about they're going to learn how to do short sales for when the market and I'm still selling right and but are you still selling well we haven't sold forever dude when was the last time you sold a house I remember I mean it was it was ten years yeah probably more than just curious if you were to sell your house we would you we sell our Rick we do our own transactions Julie and I we do our own transactions yeah we have a lot of rental properties we have right would you sell your own house for someone I'd always hire real estate agent for sure I mean we always you have an agent at this point you're like completely out yeah yeah completely out but I mean we're you're you're you're not I mean Julie and I have been out we are real our coaching businesses you know massive massive so what I'm saying is is is is is the eight figures a year I mean it's mid eight years yeah I did the matter I'll tell you I'll tell you right now I miss actually aspects of selling I miss the listing appointment that's what I miss competing against somebody like Ricky right you know what you know what I'm the same way and I'm I miss I'm still selling and in this and that I look back sometimes and I'll be honest with you I kind of miss sometimes the oil rig working on a roof to be real just a little things and the mental capacity the focus it's it's the presence Ricky that's what it is the being present I I actually sometimes miss all the way back when you had correctly this over 30 years ago I missed the idea of starting something and finishing right starting with somebody's car and then having our little group of guys knock it out having it be done having a customer really be happy that whole process was very rewarding then you get paid then you're done you know there's something about that completion of something that you don't really get in a coaching business or but you did get it selling real estate because you go out and compete you know if you are competing it wasn't fun right if you're just competing against no but it's it's all competition man tell me right now about you you you you you you you said something right there they call my ear that the seller markers not going away is that what you said oh yeah for sure please please I wanted to hear this well you tell me what you pontificate a bit I'm not well well well I mean I mean this can't last forever I mean this can't last forever I know that much what I was getting that while it goes I've got people asking me about buyers okay the same breath they're saying they're going to start working towards understanding short sales and pre-foreclosures and that kind of thing from the market flips if and ever it does and I'm thinking okay this agent is in a position now where they're representing a buyer to compete against 15 other buyers okay and that and then they're going to put theirself in position they're trying to set theirself up to compete against 15 other agents going after the same short sell listing if the market does flip it's like these agents are going where the hardest part of the market is and there's always a soft spot of the market right now it's listings you get a listing it sells in an hour you know that's what I'm focusing on mostly so it's I'm trying to drill it into some of these agents heads that why are you going why are you gravitating to the toughest places in the market as the market still you know why because it takes skill you know you got to know how to pick up the phone you know right I know how to pre-qualify and they don't know that's why yeah and Ricky how many how many agents you know younger than you have come into the industry who've basically been taught you know a bunch of passive crap by the time so you without knowing it maybe you do verbalize like this hopefully you do we're our coaching has always been and our book has always been and everything always and look you want to do a pro-active lead generation base and maybe marketing enhanced but you don't want to do marketing based and you know because you're never going to learn how to do the actual lead generation right you know how to pick up the phone and you can do it every single day and Ricky I actually am having will you know flashback that was something you were really good at set one a day set an appointment pre-qualified appointment a day and take one a day how simple the recipe for success is that and yet how many agents will never do it just because they're fearful of rejection and all the rest of these things but this is what coaching is all about so to answer your question this is literally a notes from a podcast we did last year that's talking about essentially why the market is there's a lot of drama out there about the market crashing okay I'll tell you guys a funny story right so I get a video from do you know Kevin control Ricky have you met him yet yeah I hadn't met him but I know I know who you're talking about okay so we've we've chatted a little bit good so Kevin sends me this video and it's this video doom and gloom market's going to blah blah blah worst case scenario and in a locust coming and all that sort of thing so I click on the video and it's very well done drama drama drama drama real estate crashing everyone's going to be you know cannibals on the street okay so then I did as I went it was on YouTube so you could find out who published it and then I just you know way back machined and I did some homework okay then I find out who originally published the video you're ready for it the guy that published the video is a do a survivalist who's selling survival gear he's selling canned goods he's selling freaking masking tape and you know all that crap so he is trying to basically scare people into thinking the world is going to come to an end then he's going to send them back to a stuff to buy your lifetime supply of spam right that's his market angle but agents are not obviously smart agents even like Kevin aren't discerning the fact that is just basically hype that's spinning the world around but let's talk about numbers so what would be other than this is the way things go why would you believe that the market were to was going to crash or correct so I'll give you I'll give you one example let's say interest rates go up again right all of a sudden people are saying I don't want to buy too many houses inventory goes ahead and increases and boom the market starts leveling that's one example right there okay what you got one rec well I mean it's yeah no it was going to kind of say the same thing but you know just I mean us a strike of of a pen at Washington interest rates or other policies of some sort I mean is that mean oh interest rates or some kind of policy who knows I mean you know it's always something and what and what causes a crash is normally something that nobody foresaw like it's something that shocks everybody was there ever a real estate crash prior to the one 070809 ever in the United States a national I wouldn't say as big as that one no there never was maybe a couple corrections yeah but right well not even there was never there was never one national real estate market does the first time that ever happened okay so you guys mentioned interest rates so here's the thing that's ultimately going there's there's a couple variables the first two things I'm going to say actually are the opposite of each other so are you guys familiar I'm not being and snotty but do you understand how inflation works yeah yeah okay I'm going to explain explain it for everyone listening just they understand where you're coming from hmm okay so basically bottom line is everything all prices on everything are inflating right now it's not just it's not just like Julie wanted to buy me this pin for Christmas and she couldn't find one because they were sold out everywhere houses cars car tires furniture food all everything is is essentially increasing in cost now there's two reasons why things now some of the people that are Kinsey and economists don't believe in inflation they think the inflation rate it's only 2% and inflation is nothing to worry about so we're going to placate both sides of the argument so you have inflation and the opposite side of it is is that the demand is increasing because of demographics so you have so millennials and all these other generations of people wanting to buy and sell real estate globally not just in the United States the highest concentration and and you know because that about you I won't bore you guys unless you really want to know but United States this is where these biggest demographic trends are happening okay and then what you're going to see is you're also seeing at the same time you're seeing inflation so the people that are believing in crypto and gold and believing that there's too much money printing going on okay those people are arguing that there's inflation going on it's causing prices to rise and the other side of it the people that aren't believing that don't believe that there's you know runaway inflation leading type of inflation those people are blaming the rising costs on demographics but the bottom line result is this prices are going to continue to arise so is there what why would there not be there's a better way Rick to approach this question why would there not be a bust okay why would there okay so if if interest rates do rise there will be a slung of the market for sure but if it will there will there be that won't change demographics I mean when Julie and I bought our first house interest rates for 7% I bet you when you bought your first house interest rates for at least 5% you didn't care oh yeah right see I'm saying I mean one's only known interest rates that are less than 2% I'm sure and and anything starts approaching 5 and I'm like oh my goodness give it and people have been buying and selling real estate during this post crash boom market for the right reasons buying and selling because they have bigger houses needs smaller houses and whoever died on the other in the country so we have to sell that house houses and probate you know people moving up to ego houses and shit like that so the market is healthy right now there's not a lot of speculation when is the last time you guys ran to someone said I'm gonna buy you know 10 houses because what I'm saying because I think they're all like buying Willy Wonka golden tickets that's that's not in this market and furthermore the amount of equity that people have in their houses you guys know there's a record amount of equity that Americans have in their homes right now did you know that really yeah it's like over a trillion dollars and there's also over a trillion dollars of personal savings too but here's the real reason why I won't crash is because that everyone won't like if we had somebody who's a big you know crash sell it here's what they'd say all the forbearance is coming to an end then I'd ask them because I've had this conversation right tell me about that how many are coming to an end how many of those people are going into default how many of them are you know reconstituting their mortgages I'll give you the numbers virtually all of them are getting their payments back in line again after they're off forbearance okay so there is no big surge the total number of projected defaults that's going to happen over the next 24 months including so there's 250,000 in default now that we're default they're only expecting roughly another 400,000 and these are statistics coming from different you know sources but that's a 600,000 big deal the next two years so you're talking about you know maybe 300,000 a year over the next two years who cares so there is no there is no crash and Rick I'll even go as far as to challenge you on your thinking with regards to a bubble so what's not a bubble you couldn't you couldn't I argue that every single aspect of every single thing that you invest in as a bubble oh I don't believe there's a bubble whatsoever everybody by right now our end users right the the lending regulations are so strict right now you know there's a lot of differences in now and 2003 and 4 now that's now I definitely all I would think what would be is that there could be a a slight decrease in activity which would be a great thing right which would be a great thing for real estate agents right it would create the situation where we're competing against 15 buyers every listing we may have a few more listings to choose from that would be a great thing okay some agents are saying what if I get in right now on the market crashes I'm like that would be a good thing you know if inventory comes up and a man comes down a little even if prices kind of correct a little bit that would be an amazing thing for real estate agents so now I don't I don't see a bubble whatsoever the greatest fortunes are made during the greatest times of change and we're on one we're in the midst of that now would have taken 10 years for people to experience to like frickin 18 months mean you guys know about Starlink for example you know we're Starlink okay so Julien I've been talking about on Sunday we do our nerd out podcast basically it's not real estate coaching radios wherever though we wanna talk about so we pay attention to his big trends you know sometimes we talk about aliens I mean you know I basically I bring to the podcast shit that's trying to shock my life like a few weeks like like Area 51 stuff totally something I like the dude there's you got to restart it's we talk about stupid stuff on Sunday just for fun I'll tell you one of the things I brought to the podcast so Julie's very you know very criminal proper very buttoned up so I had an article that I found on Bloomberg that the sex doll industry had blown up like was one of the best investments because of COVID and so I read the story during our Sunday podcast and she didn't blank yes so what of course the market crashing aliens buying real estate I think that's really well I mean oh I remember Starlink so Starlink is one of the things that Billy and I been paying attention to Elon Musk invested invested in this company called Starlink and Starlink essentially is putting satellites all over planet earth like imagine a web of satellites and these satellites are going to provide high speed internet connectivity for the places in on planet earth that have never had high speed internet connectivity and it's going to be basically typically not people haven't been able to live there because of lack of you know connection connected they couldn't move from the big cities to those more rural areas they're now moving there and so you're seeing these secondary markets that have on these incarcerated so there's a b and c markets right and a market would be L.A. B market would be Riverside County and C market would be like Joshua tree right no one's going to live up in Joshua tree but now people are moving there's a housing tree because people are able to get internet connection they don't they can the COVID has made it so it's okay for people to work online I mean this little situation is now normal which is amazing I love it personally you know you get a little bit burned out on zoom after a while but still pretty amazing so the nature of people the expectation of how people are going to live is completely changed people are not going to be hamhawk to the beliefs that they had prior to COVID how many people the second they had the opportunity move the hell out of big cities moved isn't that amazing yeah absolutely I didn't surprise me at all honestly because Julie and I'd never wanted to be city you know city people but the number of people that moved out of New York moved out of the towers in Miami moved out of these centralized areas look at Atlanta there's people are moving up to the the appellation area you know in North Carolina all that how Julie and I have a little cabin up in Murphy North Carolina you know it's 2,500 square feet this little you know it's in the hills basically in the mountains those prices in that market that's always that was never a hot market because it's two hours from anywhere those prices are like doubling why because people are moving out of big cities because they hook up a satellite and they're good to go and they want to work where they they want to live where they that's the lifestyle people are don't want you can't put that genie back in the bottle same goes with home schooling same goes with all these types of things so that so they're putting like a satellite like a direct TV satellite on their house it's a small dude it's a small yeah just go to Starlink and research it's incredible but so so all these trends which would have happened over a decade or more were condensed because of COVID okay here's one that we'll appreciate EXP yeah yeah only to Molly yeah no I definitely showed people that they didn't need an office right but you know what I think is even more interesting is the fact that I believe there's even a larger group of agents who kind of stayed put where they were to play out I see I think we're going to see an even larger surge as the as the as things start opening up more and more and more I think there's an even larger a larger much larger surge on the way if you ask me I'll tell you where it's going to come from to in my humble opinion the small and medium size independent brokerages would still make up more than 50% of all the brokerages in the United States their mom pops you know yeah and those are the ones that are going to be coming next EXP because that the cost structure especially in the buyer agent side just just for the sake of your listeners guys or viewers or whatever you know the pendulum basically that's what we're dealing with so over here during the housing crash here during the housing crash you there were builders giving away houses by in Victorville Julie and I drove past a sign that said buy a house get one for free not making that up okay this was the extreme buyers market now it's going to be extreme sellers market where basically they're going they're going to be essentially in some markets get your buyer pay your commission right so you're these in the spec now to Ricky's point as the market starts to correct interest rates rise I mean not correct as the market starts to adjust that's going to slowly go down here and when it reaches this equilibrium that's where people are going to have you know but this is going to take three to five years at least yeah and I'll I'll tell you why to the interest rate thing you guys are saying the feds already said they're going to keep rates low for at least three to five years right and look at all the money they're pumping into the economy where's that money going where's the money going housing assets Rick what are you into I mean what like if you're if you have a Saturday you have your I'm guessing a boating guy I kitesurf do you really yeah do you know where we live is one of the number one places and like no I looked it up I looked up me and want actually talk to a lawyer down there to to see what it would look like if we try to do what you're doing down there and we actually looked at that and I I pulled it up I pulled up all the kitesurfers I'm going to come down there not to move down there anytime soon but I'm going to come down there and kitesurf very soon I'll talk about I'll talk about Puerto Rico if you guys want to where where are you exactly what town Dorado Dorado okay is there is there kitesurfing there big time the big here Dorado but there's Dorado and then there's another one trying to remember Rincon Rincon is the big surfer speech Dorado is the big so you know to kites you all you guys know you have to the the wind has to blow a certain way you know maybe parallel the shore otherwise you got blown out in the ocean you get blown into the beach right right so that's I mean that's this is one of the matter of fact get this dude a friend of ours just had the world record it was over 40 feet Ricky in the air with this kitesurfing nice nice you know I see it here I see it here this is prime this is on the prime time side of the island yeah it is for kitesurfing well it's a it's also the incredible place to live to oh yeah oh yeah we checked it out we looked at it we thought about it the only thing about us is I didn't want to feel like I was on house arrest like I had to go there for six months you come to Dorado you won't want to leave Ricky just I'm a poor kid from Columbus Ohio I used to clean cars for a living right yeah I grew up and my bedroom was probably about I mean it was like smaller than a prison cell I mean you know there I could go on forever but here's the thing we live at the Ritz Carlton now in Puerto Rico in Dorado and we're surrounded with people that are far wealthier than we are it's incredible you know it and so point being is when you're one of the best ways you can elevate your life is be around other people that are not just one leg above you going back to really you know a coach you want to be around somebody and other you want to friends that are like dude I met a guy his name is also Ricky just moved here from Florida he's the he's the Florida's largest he calls himself a roofing contractor but he really isn't he makes probably low nine figures per year and think about that he's you know he was told me about texting me pictures of these he's buying a Koenig's egg for 1.8 million dollars I don't know if you know what that is so and this guy is 36 and so you know I those people and we are and but you meet there's another guy that Julie and I know that owns a hedge fund there's like rumors there's within this little 1300 acre place we live there's supposedly 7 billionaires there it's incredible and here's a bit they reside their full time that that's their primary yeah yeah but you don't you don't you want to reside here full time when you live here you want to because it's it's like have you guys ever read the book Atlas shrug what is it Atlas shrugged you guys should both write that down Atlas shrugged by I and Rand Atlas shrugged you got to get that book now I promise you it's massive so you might just want to get one of those summary books of it seriously just get the summary one because the book is massive and the movie is not good so just get the summary version of it but the gist of it is well again I don't want to go off on a flight of fancy but if you guys want to have answer have me answer questions about Puerto Rico I will but the number one reason we moved here Ricky wasn't for the fan shall things it was a close number two the number one was this because Julie had developed when we lived in Texas and her doctor said she's got to move from Texas they she was on three different inhalers and she only had 50 percent lung capacity that's like COVID type lung capacity so the doctor said you guys have to move from here and then she said these are the list of places you can possibly live we didn't want to live in Hawaii we did visit it we lived in Southern California part time we didn't want to ever go back there and then it was Puerto Rico and there's no other places that have the so she's not allergic to the the stuff that's out there and she's not in anything now no drugs whatsoever that was the number one reason that's amazing she was the business opportunities here are extraordinary because look Puerto Rico is in a depression and then there's not even that many people that have done acts to move down here and if you read their actual reports of how much money that's being pumped into the Puerto Rican economy it's extraordinary so many people getting jobs and you know it's it's amazing a pioneer but you can feel that this place the people are like Texans and their character and it's very incredibly entrepreneurial and not like like when I was young when I was a kid and you know I had these mooring lines and beliefs about rich people I and came as I got older I realized they were wrong here you've never met more generous more wonderful people I'm not what met a single person that I didn't want to hang out with not one you know it's incredible do you do you do you see Jay? Yeah I saw him yesterday when we're driving on our golf cards is he in a is he in the same yeah vicinity cool he's about probably 15 minutes away by golf cart and Mike Reese is too and all the other all the other exp people live down in a place called POMAS which is about an hour away mm it's a lot cheaper in POMAS like POMAS what's what's your day-to-day like Tim like is it you wake up and just have a walk on the beach or like vacation all the time I mean you know you got to work but I mean what you just said we get up in the morning and you know we have a daughter so we've been homeschooling her but we'll go on a walk you know all three of us with our French bulldog will you know Julie was on the it's a the beach is probably five minutes away and we just walk we go out our front don't return to the right and then we just walk straight down but I'll tell you a funny story so Julie's walking on the beach herself with our French bulldog and there's some guy comes up and starts petting the French bulldog it was Ricky Martin okay okay I'll tell you another one so she she's seriously so right and she didn't even know it was Ricky Martin she goes he looks familiar and then she Google but then she realized who it was right so she's walking into the there's a cafe near here and on the property and she walks in and she walks past this and she says oh la you know we speak a little bit of Spanish she speaks Spanish pretty fluently and she walks past Sean Penn and they they have this little exchange yeah we are going one way and this big mob of people were going the other way and Jay goes that's I'm turning remember his name he's a really famous comedian Dave Chappelle so Dave Chappelle and these and his big mob of people were going the opposite direction Jay said Tim that's Dave Chappelle I go no way I think he's great and so we spin around and so the road goes like this and it goes up the hill and then Dave and I or a J and I spin around we start going up the hill and soon as we turn this been Dave's assistant and Dave or Park there so this hill date and he's riding a bike and it's only a single gear so he has to stop basically and he's balancing rebalancing on the bike so Jay and I pull around the corner assistant very nice kid Dave and I and I said Dave you have a choice you either take a picture with us or we're going to run over you and so he looks he looks over your shoulder he goes run over me I'm on vacation isn't that awesome yeah Bruce Wallace was just here you know we this is a this is a place that is extraordinary we never means celebrities aside this is amazing how old Sam daughter the the yeah you're well how how I just wanted to real quickly like because you know my daughter 16 months old what is it like congratulations thank you what what is it like for for kids there incredible there's look write this down look up the task of school T T a s I s Google it the school is exceptional it's a it's basically a it's a a European style college prep school I'm telling you exceptional and then Tim you the the Ritz Carlton that's a condo residence or is it like a hotel last resort under their homes it's the Ritz Carlton basically this is a Ritz Carlton preserve property I believe in the world there's only four of them maybe not even four maybe only three so in essence this is a the center of it is a six star resort you know it's a Ritz Carlton they're not even there's not even really telerooms it's nothing like that these are individual villas that are on the beach basically that's where the Ritz Carlton is it's got this incredible spot and this whole thing and so surrounding on and within the same property there's neighborhoods there's little there's communities some of which got started in the 90s others which are brand new I mean the average sale price here is I don't I mean I'm not even really sure now maybe three million their their properties there's a property that sold maybe a month ago for 50 million there's one that sold like a week or two weeks before that for 30 million this is a you know a weird place yeah so we don't have much time left I want to get into one more question I want to get your take real quickly just for everybody that you know there's this whole group of agents I don't know what the percentage is it's just kind of scared about this whole Zillow showing time or something's going to replace agents or agents are going to be obsolete in 20 years kind of thing you know you're a sharp guy I don't want to let everybody hear your take on this whether agents will be obsolete yeah yeah like like people are saying you know our agents are going to be obsolete you know why should I get into real estate you know they're not even going to that that job isn't even going to exist in a decade well it also that they've been saying that Brad Inman specifically he's been saying that since the nineties and Brad's a friend I love him he's one he's a true icon of real estate but he's been saying that since the nineties it's called disintermediation it's to remove the middleman and the problem with the stressful situation and that always be true it's always been true and you have look I don't even think honestly if it's a commoditized product a condo that's all the same I can see that there's a low skilled sales person that might be part of those transactions that maybe is an hourly type but anything it's more real States all different people's personalities are all different most people will avoid anything has to do selling a house buying a house or the two of the most having a baby like you just said there's some of the most stressful things you've ever experienced in your life people always want to trust the advisor and as far as Zillow goes people that do business with Zillow are essentially nailing and putting nails in their own coffin it doesn't even make sense I not once have we told agents to buy buyer leads and certainly not from Zill and of course they're going to be your competitor so here's the real bug with Zillow this is the reason one of the many reasons we love the XP Ricky is if you like people are saying well Zillows I buyer flipping houses okay what are they doing with all those seller leads that they're getting where the they aren't buying the houses well they're referring them to agents for now and then what's going to happen is they're going to keep those themselves so with the house I buyer widget is it's the greatest listing lead generator ever agreed right yeah I mean other than picking up the phone it is yeah yeah that's it you know so that's what they're going to do and people they're not putting two together so you're the greatest so the question is you know if it's five years from now Zilla's not going anywhere and then there's probably going to be there's going to be maybe a consortium of other brands but every all the brokerages are going to have to emulate EXP you know KW is supposedly gearing up to go public all these different you know things are going to be happening in reaction to essentially what Zilla and we EXP are doing and look what the Compass IPO was the Compass IPO was very encouraging because that tells you that major investors are still linked or that are very much interested in real estate companies that the day of the you know the real estate opportunity for investors anyway it's still seen ahead of us that's the theory anyway but there's no chance that real estate practitioners will ever go away once I don't have a list properties generate their own leads once they're beholding to buying their business they're going to go away for sure yeah well said man well said this has been an incredible conversation man we need to bring you back on the show whatever it's all good you need to come back man you're so much calmer I love it I like this he's like chill listen man back then back in the day I was trying to make a million dollars okay so and you did it yeah yeah finally you know what I learned you know what I learned through through our sessions was that I was doing everything I was supposed to be doing I was looking for the special magic key that I was missing and what I realized through it was that I was already doing everything I needed to do and my only problem was patients that's right yep it's Rick it all comes down to doing what you don't want to do when you don't want to do it the highest level and everything in life takes I mean is this your first kid yeah you're 40 okay yeah so you you know basically everything in life it's gonna that's worth having it's gonna take like five times Carlos this is good advice for you son listen listen the old parts here everything in life everything in life worth having it's gonna take like five times if not longer ten times longer and demographically right when you look at income I think I think it's right in the early 60s huh well it's a little bit younger than that it's like late 40s mid 50s oh there's a lot younger you're not even there yet but you right you'll you know you're peak earning because the moves you're making right now especially the XP yours will you know happen about now and will never dissipate you should if you make the right moves you should continue to a set your challenge and frankly everyone's challenge and the opportunity and the blessing that Glenn creative revenue share is to really make the most of that opportunity create generational wealth opposed just you know spending on boats and you know I'm saying yeah that's that's the thing you got to be thinking long term oh yeah oh yeah no absolutely man now I appreciate everything you do and we appreciate you and you know everything that you've done for the industry and you know want to see you keep shining yeah we well we're not going anywhere coaching radio I'm going to get myself a plexus yeah please do how can people reach out to you that's a rude bastard I can't believe that so real real estate coaching radio just listen to our podcast you know it's the number one listen to daily podcast real estate agents in at least the United States you know we have a slow day 35,000 downloads on a really normal day it's 50 to 60,000 downloads nice like with you Ricky the market has spoken right nice that is nice that's beautiful and how long have you guys been doing that podcast 2014 got 2014 bag yeah great great cool man well like I said we appreciate you and we'll bring you back on the show soon