 Jason, how are you, sir? Good, Chris. It is brilliant to be on the show with you, man. Really looking forward to it. You look so, so well, so composed, and you've got great audio. You're a podcaster's dream, mate. Well, I try. I try. I recently started up a podcast myself just because I love impacting people. So I got a little bit of equipment, not much, though, but yeah, it's, I'm freezing, though. It's cold today, so I've got my woolly jumper on and everything. Hey, you're in the UK. What did you expect? I know, man. I know. I know. Which always tell people, because oftentimes when people listen to me, they listen to more about trying to figure where I'm from, because my accent's so weird. So I'm from Texas, but I live here in the UK up in the north. So yeah, it's cold, man. Hey, Texas. Do you remember Dallas? Is that? Yeah. I didn't watch it too much, but yeah, I remember it was big when I was a kid. I'm guessing you're probably a bit younger than me, and that's a compliment, but... A little bit. Well, I don't know actually. I don't know. I'm 42 right now, so I don't know how old you are, sir. Yeah, you're nine years, my junior. So Dallas wouldn't have been the bigger hit for you as it was over here when I was a young teenager, probably. JR, Big Bad JR, and everyone loved him. Yeah, yeah. Larry Hagman. I don't remember. I remember JR. Everyone talking about JR. I think that was going on in the early 80s, which I was just a young kid, so I didn't... I just heard about it, but I never really watched it, so... Yeah, it was legendary in its day. And Larry Hagman would come over here and go on our chat shows. And I think it was Terry Wogue anyway. Terry, I bought you some good old Texas bullshit, and it literally gave him a glass jar with some bullshit. That's funny. Being steer country or whatever you call it. Yeah, yeah. To us, to conservative Britain back then, especially on the BBC, it was like, oh, he just said bullshit. We're not allowed to say that on TV. That's crazy, man. So can we dive in, Jason? I'm thinking of friends at home that probably haven't got a lot of time to watch a huge, great podcast. You've been in a plane. You survived a plane crash. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm well aware that was it three people didn't? That's correct, yeah. Me and one other guy survived, and three didn't. They passed away that day, yeah. Can you start from the beginning? What was the flight about? Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So I was living in Texas at the time, and I was in my early 20s, and it was January 17, 2002. It was a Thursday, and we I was involved in a church and we had kind of an outreach community thing as well that we were doing. And we were looking at creating a youth facility. Just for like a youth facility where people, you know, kids come after school, hang out, do stuff like that. And, you know, had indoor basketball courts and arcade games and just, you know, a place where, you know, you can just come out and have fun and all that sort of stuff. And so we were looking at other people and other places that had kind of created a facility like this. So we we found a place out in Colleen Temple, Texas, and that had built one. So we were going out, we were flying out to just have a look at it, just see what they've done and, you know, do normal research, all that kind of stuff and just get some ideas and, you know, what challenges they had building all that sort of stuff. And so we were, we had a friend, it was actually a for the data one of my friends, he was a pilot, and they they charted out a they were doing a couple other things that day but they charted out a twin engine prop Cessna. And which I'd never been on a prop plane before. So it was kind of excited. I was like, Oh, this is kind of new experience. And so we got on the plane in Houston. And the flight was supposed to be about an hour long. And we got up and took off and for anyone who hasn't been in a prop plane, particularly a really small one, it's loud. And we've probably been on many of them, Chris, but it, I couldn't believe how loud, a little tiny prop plane was, because we all started kind of chatting to, at the beginning of it and then we just, we're losing our voice shouting at each other we were only like two or three feet away from each other. So anyway, I was, I was on the plane and I've always been very entrepreneurial. I started, you know, have my first business when I was 20, all that sort of stuff and I was looking to go into another business and so I was writing down a lot of stuff, just business ideas and lots of stuff on that so I was kind of just lost in that. And then I looked down at my watch and about an hour had passed. And so I thought, Oh, okay, we must be getting pretty close, you know, to landing, because it's been about just over an hour. And there was five of us on board. And I knew all of them we were all all good friends. And obviously there was a pilot in the pilot seat. I was in a little bucket seat. I was the only one facing the tail of the plane. I was on the right hand side of the plane. And behind me was the co pilot seat. And so a friend of mine, he was in his early 30s. He was sitting in the co pilot seat. And so was a bucket seat. So anytime if I pushed back, he could feel it if he pushed back, I could feel it, you know, as it was leaning up against each other almost. And he was always kind of known as a Messer kind of jokester type of guy. And he kind of turned around and look back at us. So his face was kind of this way, and look back at us and he was like, Hey guys, I think we're going to make it to the airport. And I thought he was joking. I was like, Oh, it's hilarious. And then he was like, he got really, really serious on his face like no, I'm serious, I don't think we're going to make it. You know, I pray. So all, all of us. So me, a friend of mine named Cecil and then a girl named Angela who was as close to a blood sister that you could get with actually being blood sister. She was 17. She was sitting in front of me. And so we all kind of looked at you like, Oh, okay, this is crazy. What's going on? Because obviously we didn't have the headphones on. We couldn't hear, you know, what was going on between the pilot and flight control and all that. And probably, I don't know, 30 seconds or a minute later, the left hand side of the plane, the engine on that the prop just stopped. And so that was my right hand side because I was facing the tail and she went quiet. I was like, and I looked over and I was like, Whoa, okay, that's, that's not good. And, and then probably 15 seconds later, the right hand side of the plane, that prop stopped. And so it was complete silence like when you're in that, that noise of those props and then it just stops like it's a deafening silence. Like, it's pretty, pretty crazy. So we were all kind of looking at each other like, Wow, okay, you know, obviously, this is not supposed to happen. And, you know, no one was freaking out. It wasn't anything that was actually quite calm. And because we all knew the pilot. I mean, I'd known him for probably 10 years. You know, he was a great guy. He's flown a lots of stuff. So I think we all fairly felt comfortable, you know, with him flying the plane and stuff. So we were probably flying for another, I don't know, minute or so. And then the plane banked really hard to the right. And so what later I found all this out, but what what he was basically doing was chatting with flight control to find out should he have gone left, where it's more kind of an open field, or would he bank right to try to make it to the airport. So they decision was made to go to the airport. So we banked right when we did. When we kind of banked, I was able to look down and probably we were probably about 200 feet above houses. It was just like rooftop rooftop rooftop like it wasn't. We were close to the ground, you know, I was like, wow, okay, we're, we're really close. And, and I was looking forward. Oh, not what my four is looking towards Angela, just trying to keep eye contact with her and just trying to, you know, I think just no one knew what was going on, you know, just all just kind of look around like wow what's happening. And then I heard something hit on the bottom of the plane. And I don't know exactly why I did this, but I kind of put my arm on the rest on my left hand side and I leaned over and look down as if I was trying to see what hit the plane which I don't know why I did that because I didn't see through the plane obviously. And then the next thing I know, it was just this bright, white light filled the plane and I was, I was out. So what what had happened is, we were flying over the estate the housing estate, and we had hit the top of either tree or telephone pole or something, which made the noise on the bottom of the plane. And pilots, you probably know this Chris, but pilots are taught when a crash crash landing to fly in between two trees to take off the wings of the plane because that's where all the fuel is stored. So that's what he was doing. He was he was trying to fly in between two trees which he did. But the plane was actually built a year before those regulations came in so they the wings didn't really break away though the way they were supposed to, and the right wing hit a tree. And it ripped the right side of the plane off and then torqued the whole plane 90 degrees into a house and just slammed right into the house into like a T junction where, you know, it was the outside wall and then an inside wall. So when it hit, there was no give to the plane. And it just slammed into that. So, I, I woke up all. When I talk about it in when I remember back it feels like it probably was 15 minutes, but all I'm getting ready to say now happened probably within the space of two minutes. But it was just really weird so I woke up. And I was laying backwards. My left arm was across my body, and my feet were kind of trapped in rubble. And I woke up and it was kind of like the best way I can describe it is if you're ever seen a movie where someone gets knocked out and all our visions kind of blur except this, like a really clear black pinhole type of thing that's, that's what it was like. Everything was blurry except this little pinhole. And I didn't, I couldn't remember where I was. I didn't know why I was on the plane. And then I remembered being on a plane then I thought I was on a commercial plane and then I thought I remembered being on with friends and then I couldn't remember. Like it was really weird. I just couldn't figure out what was going on. And then Cecil, I know in the UK we call it we say Cecil, but his name in the States come Cecil. He, I heard him saying, get off me get off me so I, he must have fallen like been thrown forward and I landed on top of him. So I remember him saying that and then as soon as I remember him saying that I forgot he was there again like it was, it was just really weird. So I, I was laying there and I thought well let me let me sit up so I went to sit up but my arm would move and I couldn't get up for a second and I looked down. My arm looked just kind of funny. I thought it was broken it wasn't but it I thought it was, but I couldn't move it. And what what had happened is, when I had leaned over like this to look down at the bottom of the plane with my arm up. When the right hand side got ripped off, part of it sliced down the left hand side, and it sliced back on my left tricep all the way down to the bone. And probably about five or six months later we actually went to go look at the plane and all that. And my seat belt that I was wearing it looked like someone had taken scissors it was like a clean cut right through my seat belt. And I'd asked I was like, was this someone cut this obviously I wasn't cut out of the plane because I ended up walking out which I'll tell you about in a second. So, basically, well, some of the people that were doing a lot of investigation afterwards, they said if I would have been sitting up properly, it probably would have sliced through the left hand side of my body because it just sliced through like my seat belt on my arm and everything. So, it's probably one of the things that saved my life on that day for you know I didn't kind of get cut really bad or sliced open or anything so I, I, so anyway I grabbed my, my left wrist and I just kind of threw it over my body and just flopped down like couldn't move it was just really weird. So I sat up and I tried to move my feet but I had to pull it out of kind of the rubble and because it's just cramped and my all my feet, both my feet ended up being completely bruised like a black and blue and everything. And I then I quickly kind of looked around the plane and I thought oh well, where's where's Angela. Is she okay and then, oh yeah Cecil as well where are they and I didn't hear anyone so I thought well maybe everyone's out. I thought we were in a field somewhere and maybe they're waiting on me. And so I, I thought well I need to get out of the plane. So I went to get out of the plane and when I did I turned to my left, which was the right hand side of the plane because that whole side had been ripped off. And I went to go out and it felt like a hot iron pressed against my left tricep and it just, it was like, just, it was painful. So I thought well, let me just stay here because that hurt and I don't know how I'm going to get out of the out of the plane. So I thought well I'll just stay here I'm sure you know help is on its way to help me get out and all that sort of stuff. But then the heat from the fire because there's a lot of fire around. It just got it got really really intense and I thought man if I don't get out of the plane. I don't know, maybe I'll burn or whatever. So I thought I'm just going to make my way out so I made kind of stumbled my way out. And I remember hearing something on my left, and I looked down and that was the gentleman named Leroy, who was in the copilot seat. And I looked down at him it was just kind of like his face was kind of like soot, you know, like, like, like soot gone on his face and stuff and some blood and stuff. And he just kind of whispered saying to go get help. And I just started turning around before I heard him say something. And I looked back down at him and he, he was looking at me but he was looking through me he was looking past me. And then I just heard his breath just kind of go just go out and and and he died right right in front of me there. And it was actually one of the. It was one of the most peaceful experiences I've ever experienced before like he wasn't, he was very peaceful it was a very surreal type of moment. But it wasn't what it wasn't a tragic moment or anything it was it was very, I don't know how to explain it was just very calm and peaceful and I could tell he was at peace as well. So, I just thought well, I can't do anything to help him anymore so I need to walk away from the heat from the plane. So I walked off and when I did when I turned around there was a guy that was coming towards the plane. He was actually he just gotten off duty was a paramedic he just gotten off duty and saw the plane coming down. And so he kind of followed it and he was the first one on the scene. And he was calling me away and will probably have a picture you can put up on YouTube and stuff Chris but you'll see in that. He's he's got one hand kind of waving at me to come towards him and another one pointing towards people, because he's telling them to get away because he didn't know if the plane would explode. He didn't know what was going on. But he was telling me to come away from the plane to get away from it. And then he said something along the lines of, let's get you away from the plane so you can lay down. In my head all I heard was, you need to lay down and I just thought man that's such a good idea and I just literally flopped backwards. And there's another picture where you can see he's kind of like leaning down to catch me so I don't bang my head against the ground. And so I just laid there. Kind of the next person that was on the scene was an off off duty nurse she just finished her shift at the hospital. And so she showed up and she was amazing she stayed with me the whole time. And the where I was kind of positioned on the ground, the plane was to my right. And I heard a big explosion, which I didn't know what was going on with that it ended up being one of the tires blew up because of the heat. And so she actually changed sides and gone in front of me because I kind of started getting like what's going on and where's my friends and all that sort of stuff. So she just stood in front of me so I couldn't nail down so I couldn't see anything and just kept me calm and I was in and out of consciousness a lot. And so she was there and just helped me she was she was amazing. She was just there for me the whole time. And, and then Cecil ended up kind of walking out of the plane as well. But then, you know, unfortunately, the, as I said, Leroy died and then the other two passed away as well and in the crash. So it was it was, it was pretty. It was a very, it was a tragic event. It was pretty tough. Obviously for those family members where, you know, people had passed away. But it was really tough on me as well. Over that next year, just dealing with survivor's guilt, which is definitely a massive thing I'm sure Chris you've your background and people you speak with it's probably a very common thing. But and I haven't experienced in any sort of way is a lot of military folks have but anyway, yeah. Gosh, did you say the girls name was it was it Angela sorry. Yeah, Angela yeah. And where was she kind of geographically in all of this was she still in the plane or she was so what had happened is when the plane torqued. Her seat had basically the bolts had come undone, and she her seat was all the way towards the back of the plane next to the door and then Cecil seat was a bit in front of her to the left and her seat had basically gone to the left and behind his. So I couldn't see her. She was there, but I couldn't see her. And so that's why when I kind of looked her and again, it's a tiny plane. But when you're in that your mind is all over the place and just because I couldn't see her I just thought she'd gotten out. So yeah. But she was so you're saying she was basically wedged at the back of the plane. Well, she was she was, I wouldn't say wedge but yeah, her, her seat had fallen over and so the seat was kind of hiding or I couldn't see so she was kind of behind Cecil seat as well. I'm just trying to think like that's probably better for you. Not not seeing that right you know I mean. I think so. The last memory of her is the one I want to keep, you know, and that was us looking at each other in the plane, and I mean, even, even at the, I was invited to go along to the kind of the they had an open cast that casket before the actual funeral and I just actually decided not to go to that because I didn't want to see. I wanted the my last memory of her to be of her life. Plus, I couldn't get out of the hospital that day early anyway, I was in the hospital and the people the hospital were telling me I shouldn't go because we needed to drive and, well, I think it was about three hour drive back to Houston. But I was like, I'm not missing her funeral so you guys are going to have to strap me in this bed. So they they they went ahead and discharged me and we drove back and then and then we got back just in time for the funeral. So. Yeah, it was. It was a very, very unique experience for everyone and unique isn't even the word to use I just don't know what to use because it's, it's tough. So. Yeah, it's a lot to process isn't it it's a lot to process just talking about it. Yeah. The the the shock of it. Not just for you but for these people that are responding coming to help you you don't see a plate. I often look at planes out the window and I just think, like imagine if that crash now I mean, it'd be a traumatic thing just just to see it in the distance. Let alone to physically be there and then to have to respond to it. Gosh, you know we should give a special shout out to all you you call them first responders right or. Yeah, we call them our blue light services and God bless them you know. Yeah, they're they're amazing I mean there was a lot of people that showed up and obviously the fire department showed up and it all you know that like I said that was January 17 2002. And so when the plane came down the FBI was called because they didn't know if it was a plane crash. They didn't know if it was some sort of terrorist attack or anything like that. I found it afterwards at the local hospital changed a lot of its procedures on the way they deal with trauma like that because they realized that they weren't quite equipped to handle that sort of thing. So it was there was a it was a lot but and I'll tell you one other thing that a big big massive shout out to the Red Cross as well. I never knew what they do and how they help people. They were phenomenal. And if you know if anyone ever questions what the Red Cross does because I think a lot of people have heard of it they don't really know what they do but they were amazing. They put my mom and my brother up in a hotel. They had the next day they they were able to like my mom my brother and a couple other people were actually able to go to the site of the plane crash. And they had people that had gone through tragic experiences or had lost loved ones before and they had a Red Cross person getting choked up talking about it. They had a Red Cross person there just standing next to him just just just to be there with them in case they needed to hug someone or cry or just whatever. You know they brought him teas and coffees and all that sort of stuff. They bought clothes for me because obviously my clothes were ruined. You know like the Red Cross was amazing. So you know all those people that help with stuff like that. You know they're amazing. They're amazing what they do to help people through stuff like that. I've not heard of that service in the UK maybe that's a uniquely I know the Red Cross do a phenomenal job in many different areas they work a lot in asylum and they you know get families families together but That sounds possibly uniquely American unless I'm I'm very much mistaken. Maybe so I until that happened I would have never known that they they do that like it maybe maybe they do it and it's just something that people just don't know they do. Or maybe it is very American I'm not sure but they were amazing they were they were absolutely phenomenal and what they were doing just to be there and support and help and It was it was just yeah big massive shout out to the Red Cross. Yes, yes definitely. And you went to Angela's funeral did you go to all of them was there any kind of expectation on did you feel any sort of expectation or They the only I didn't feel any expectation from anybody but because of how close I was to Angela. I wasn't. Nothing would have stopped me from going to it unless I just was in a coma. You know like there was just nothing that was going to stop me. So, like I said I mean she was like a sister to me so I just wasn't going to miss that. Everyone was really supportive I mean even like her her family, like I grew up with their family I was really close with their family, and they always. I always felt love from them. Even after the funeral like, like I had to be kind of like, I had a partial torn ACL, you know I was banged up I couldn't. It was tough for me to kind of walk and all that kind of stuff. And so I was kind of being help help kind of walking away from the great you know from the graveyard and stuff and and even their dad said look come come over, you know because they had, you know, the afters kind of thing where you know they have a little finger free where people come in and give kind of go up the old and so you know come over and so they were they were always really, I always felt love. Although I'm sure at times. And this is never expressed to me it was never told to me but you know I'm sure at times they probably would have rathered, you know, their daughter be here and I would have been the one that passed which you know I totally understand those feelings as well. But I think a lot of what I felt was more just me having that survivor's guilt feeling guilty of living. Why did I live and not the other people. You know, oftentimes people will say things like, you know, just must not have been your time or, you know, God must have really been looking out after you. And I get what people say that I think they're trying to be comforting. But it was always really tough to hear that because I was like, well, I'm not any better than anyone else in the plane and I wasn't being looked out anymore or less than anyone else and it was those types of things you know that was really tough to, you know, I always took it very thick thank you but in my mind I was like, I wasn't, I'm not any better, you know, I wasn't being looked after anymore than anyone else and so it was it was a challenge around that for sure. Yeah, and survivor's guilt is. I think it's one of these expressions it kind of rolls off our tongue because you hear it in in in society and we've all watched kind of air crash investigation and. I mean, these horrendous. I mean, not that yours isn't horrendous, all tragedy is horrendous but when you hear of a plane of 250 people when one person survives it's like the Holy fuck. I know man. Yeah. But the reason I say it's just, it's a funny expression is it. It's not just one emotion it's fricking loads going like this at the same time and it's not just you. It's stuff that's coming from the third party so the family's involved. Yeah. And it's harsh. And yes I have I have been through it you know my best friend drowned when we were on holiday together and it was a, you know, we've both been taking LSD. And my friend lost the plot. He had a psychotic episode. Yeah, this is why I say to people if you've. I make no judgment on how anyone lives their life and minds just turned out very well but if you mess with these things you've got to be prepared to pay the ultimate price it's just that simple and the longer you mess with them. The more likelihood statistically either you or somebody you love is going to get either badly hurt or dead and yeah. So, yeah, you know you're partying with your best friend and then he loses the plot and goes and drowns himself in the lake. Wow. And you're absolutely off your head. You're on the lake side to identify your your best friend's dead body. And then I think I've not suggest anyone that tries to find this out but those people that have been absolutely tripping will know it's not the best time to be having to deal with the police the ambulance, the family, all this but it's kind of. I'm really strict with myself to you know it's like there's a way things have got to be done and you do it's on there. You fucking idiot. Right. What's next. Okay, let's roll the cigarette that's best thing to do at this situation just take five you know. And what I'm getting to is. It's the dealing with the police was. They try and interrogate you a bit because they kind of this was a big festival. So they're not stupid. And you just say, no comment right, you know, or just bluff. But then when the family comes into it. It doesn't matter how much they say, oh, we don't blame you. It's like, well, you know, I'm not stupid you. It's human emotion is what did my son die and you didn't or, you know, I mean, I should have been looking after him that's, I mean, I believe me I did my best when when someone's having a psychotic disorder and they are, I could release my responsibility and say it was uncontrollable. I mean, it's really violent at stages attacking people and yeah, but it's just you can't go there I mean for me. It's done dusted move on. That is literally a line I drew in the sun. Yeah, you're going to get this emotion with a family that's just the way it is and I'll be alive. I've said it. It's there, you know, it. It's there. But that's just the way you know no one said life's fair and it's not supposed to be easy and but very different experience for you although there's some parallels you. I'm not saying yours is traumatic in my experience but I mean yeah, it's I think any situation like that's traumatic Jason isn't it. Yeah, and I always tell people you know we all go through our traumatic experiences and you know just got Chris the stuff that you've done and been through and and all that stuff. I can listen to you. You've been through and go. But people could listen to my my playing crash experience ago my god how have you survived that but then they could talk about something that happened in their life. I'm thinking God how have you survived so we all have traumatic experiences and and you know I always try to look at it from the perspective of, you know it's not a who's traumatic experiences is the worst, because it all affects us in ways and we all have to work through those stuff and you know not every most people are never going to be in a playing crash and and you know, I think the majority of the population will never have to go through survivors guilt, or or anything like that, but they all have their own tragedies what you know whether they were abused or, you know whether it could be anything. So, you know, I always, I always want to make sure that whatever I've gone through and it will go through you know, as you said, I'll have more challenges in my life we all will. It's unrealistic to think that we'll just sail through the rest of our lives, but I always want to be able to help people and say look no matter what experience you're going through right now, or have been going through their as as this may sound very American positiveness and I don't mean it to come across that way at all, but there is always something there is an upside to things as well you can always take from that and learn from it and you can. You can apply things to your life and you can always move forward and you can always. You can help other people through it you can develop your life and grow better and stronger through it as well. Doesn't mean ignore the tragedy doesn't mean to pretend that the, the challenges aren't there, because I don't think that's healthy either, but you know, being able to just look forward and say okay well, what can how can I use that experience to help other people how can I use that experience to use that total to leverage that to reach more people. And that's what I'm trying to do more now is take that experience and say, I want to leverage that and have, you know, have that as something where it grabs people's attention, so that I can somehow speak impact into their life as well and help other people. So, you know, it's, it's, that's kind of my kind of personal mission in life as well and everything I do in my business and all that sort of stuff so. Well you're certainly achieving that even by being here talking, talking about it now. How did you, how did you come to terms a bit. We hear expressions like PTSD and all this kind of stuff it gets really complicated when you talk about military personnel because most of us joined well, a significant percentage of joined up with PTSD from childhood. That's kind of a driver of why people join an elite force and try it, you know, maybe want to prove themselves to somebody or someone or at least not themselves right. It becomes kind of hard picking out the episodes in later life, especially after you've been in combat. So was it is it the combat that's driving this is it deeper and there's this very little work that's been done there to kind of enlighten as to what what trauma isn't and how it isn't. I often say. Yeah trauma in adult life. It's very different to experience in trauma as a as a toddler. So from say domestic violence in the family or mental mental abuse physical abuse sexual abuse whatever it is because when you're that toddler you can't make sense of it. You really don't know what's happened. You kind of sense something's not right but maybe it's you. So you internalize it and this is why childhood trauma suffers carry that for life, you know, because it's internalized at such a young age, then it manifests in adulthood in your addictions in your compulsive behaviors and whatever it might be some sort of behaviors let's say. But then it's a very different thing going through trauma as an adult because you have a brain you have a fairly good control over it you can have the ability to rationalize compartmentalize make sense of an experience, bring in the psychology the philosophy the spirituality have the support around your people you can you can talk to and get support support from right. So, I find it really fascinating I think it's so valid that we can have this conversation. But I'm interested to ask you Jason what you know how did it affect you, how did you cope with it, who helped you what mechanisms did you in in in in ploy was it something you got to point went right. It's behind me because when my friend drown. I kissed him goodbye, and then I went on and smash my life but I'm a bit maybe ruthless people might think but it's to me is that's done it's dusted both new to score with traveled the whole world together we've had a smashing time. It's just sad for the family, in that respect, and am I going to carry any guilt know how my fuck. It, you know, I got my family to think about right, and I'm quite ruthless and bloody mind a lot and that goes back to the military where you've got a guy dead on the street of belfast and the corporal tries to resuscitate and just looks up and goes. And you move on because you've got a job to do you can't you haven't got time for grieving or yeah all this kind of stuff right, possibly again why trauma affects people years after their service. So, how was your experience of it. It was. So a few things around it. My, I, I ended up moving in with my mom for a while, because she helped me just to get back up on my feet with stuff. And she, she wanted me to go see a counselor I didn't want to see one. But I ended up just going okay I'll go so I went ended up doing some sessions with a counselor and she kind of diagnosed me with a mild form of PTSD, and, but that it was really helpful going in that counselor I'm glad my mom. You know, pushed me to do that. So that was really helpful. I did have good friends around me that were really supportive and helpful. And one thing that was definitely helpful through that is, you know, the, the families that were involved, like I said earlier, none of them ever. None of them ever were hateful towards me for surviving when, you know, their family member didn't. I think that was a great help. I remember one of the things that I had to work through quite a lot was probably a few weeks afterwards. I realized that I couldn't see past a few hours in my life so when I talk about, you know, writing out those goals on the, for the business I was looking at the plane. It was literally like almost night and day like I was on the plane thinking months and years ahead it was planning out. But after the crash, I'd wake up in the morning and it was like if I looked at what I do past 12 o'clock there was just a fog in my head, I couldn't see it it was just, it was impossible for me to see what I was going to do. And it scared me because I was like this is really weird I was thinking months and years ahead right before the crash and now I literally couldn't even think about what I would eat that afternoon. It's like my brain shut down. And so what I started doing is I would, I would go as far as I could in my mind. And then I would just, I would push 15 minutes past that and just go okay what am I going to just do for the next 15 minutes past this fog. And after a couple of days I'd get to about 1230 in the afternoon in my head and then I'd wake up and, you know, let's say I wake up eight, I could get to one o'clock and then I'll go okay well, what am I going to do past that and you know we take it for granted when we wake up in the morning we kind of have our whole day planned out you know we're going to get up and get dressed we're going to go to work and we've got all these things we need to do and we're going to come home and we're going to do this and we'll have our dinner and then we're going to do this in the evening and we got this on the weekend. It's just so fast in our head. We don't even think about it, I couldn't, I couldn't do that, no matter how hard I try it. And so I would just, I'd push myself it was like I was exercising my mental capacity. And that went on for weeks and weeks and, and eventually after about two or three months. I would say it probably took a good six to seven months before I got to a place where I felt kind of like I could see normally again in my head. And so that was something that I worked on and I don't, I don't know if that's common for other people that have been through traumas like that. I'd say it in some ways it's kind of similar. But I just know what I kind of went through but that's one thing that I just remember it was a very proactive decision on what I was going to do to expand out that mental capacity be able to just see ahead and see the future again. And, but then kind of the guilt of it I think Chris that has been something that I've kind of dealt with quite a lot for a long time you know we're on 19 years now past that and I am, you know looking at stuff, it's only been probably I've been more open I've never mind talking about the plane crash, but in terms of using that experience as a point of leverage to be able to reach more people to impact them. I always feel guilty for that because like how could I use something tragic where people my friends have lost their life and leverage that somehow to benefit me. And that's kind of the way that I would look at it and, and that was tough but I've gotten to a point where I was like you know what, it's my life it's my story. And if I don't express that if I don't use that in a way, I'm actually doing a disservice to other people that I can actually help. So I'm not going to hide what I've been through. Not that I was hiding it but you know I'm going to I'm going to use it to impact as many people as I can in a positive way. So that that's been a tough thing for me. You know for for a long time. So, yeah, there's something to be said isn't there about the truth in life. I came from a generation where my parents were they, they had an inability to tell us the truth there was so many rules in society and class system and etiquette and pride and ego and all this complicated mesh that is called British English society that people just pretended they were something they were not. And it's, I think it's unhelpful. I don't know I might be, I might there may be aspects of it that were positive but Yeah, I just think you know you're telling your truth. It's going to help people. Maybe it will help someone realize my God thank God I haven't been. I haven't been through you know I mean look at this guy he's been able to pick himself up from this. I can do the same with the death of my partner or the death of a loved one or this or a mishap at work or whatever it. Yeah, it might be. I'm acutely aware of your time I know that you've got another appointment I think it was 10 minutes ago so you've been very kind. Can you just tell us a bit about what you're doing now. Of course I mean, I wish we could talk for ages but I so what I do now I, I really originally trained up trained up as a life coach about 15 years ago and started marketing myself online and did very well at it. As you know build up an email list of 9000 people started coaching people in 13 countries and then started getting asked a lot about how you market yourself and how you build your business so for the last kind of 12 years I've been very much focused on helping other businesses and companies with their online marketing, which I love doing. It's helping them I do a lot of LinkedIn marketing for people and consulting with that so that's what I do with my business now and I work with a lot of coaches and consultants as well which I love because if I can help them reach out more to more people and market themselves it means they're able to positively impact more people as well so So that's what I do and I love it I kind of bit of a geek around all the online marketing stuff I love it but yeah that's what I do just help help corporations as well as companies, coaches, consultants and advisors with their LinkedIn marketing strategies and online marketing strategies. Let's have you back on the show and let's just talk about that because I think that will, I mean this is the world we live in now technology, it's, I don't like it. I think it's made stuff. Yeah I can't just log into my email now now I have to get my phone and do this code and it takes so much of my day when I could be doing something that I love or spending time with someone I love. So first question then what's, I often see people going I have a business I've got to have a Twitter account I'm like no it doesn't work like that. It's only good having a Twitter account people follow you. Then you've got to use hashtags otherwise it's like you're, you're talking to yourself. Yeah. Just quick, rough answer. What, what's the biggest mistake companies make them when it comes to marketing themselves through through social media or whatever. Well, the biggest mistake I see people make is they, they often lump themselves into an overall group or category and they fall into what I call a commodity commodity based marketing. So they'll just say, yeah we're a construction company or yeah I'm a life coach or I'm an accountant, which doesn't mean anything people just make snap judgments about what you're able to do and all that sort of thing so like one of my clients is an IFA so an independent financial advisor. And that's the way he labeled himself. And he's very good at what he does. And we just helped reposition what he does find out what he's really good at and he loves helping people with their pensions. And he said, you know, he says I love pensions I can help people high net earners retire up to 10 years early by by restructuring their pensions. I was like, well that's very different from just calling yourself an IFA. And so, you know, we helped reposition what he did and within six weeks he generated an additional 30,000 pounds of business, just by repositioning what he does so that he's not in this commodity based market where people make snap judgments on what you do the services you provide and oftentimes where you compete on price, which is not a good place to be because if you if you compete on price your your prices will always be driven down. So you want to be able to stand out be different know how to position yourself on social media, and then how to reach out to your, your ideal target market but yeah, I mean, I could talk about this for ages or more than happy Chris if you want back on we can go into more depth around that so. Yeah, just one very quick anecdote there I got a fellow brother rule marine that does live coaching. And he changed his tagline to the man coach. Yep. And immediately that just resonated with all those men out there that just want to be like more men or get a bit more from from from their life. Jason, I absolutely love this chat. I appreciate you, you know, telling such a traumatic story with with such which candor and for everything you've been through to all our friends at home. Remember the past is called the past because it's in the past, ultimate self love for yourself. You loved under this universe. Yeah, I love you and so do the people watching this show now. Leave it behind. It's history. Yeah, get on and smash your life, just like Jason's doing just like I do because you get one life, and it's worth living in paradise. Please like and subscribe. Much love everyone. Thank you, Jason. Hey, my pleasure, Chris. Thanks a million.