 Hello, I'm Joseph Ronca and welcome to Creating the Human Rights Culture, which calls for a lived awareness of human rights principles in our minds and hearts and integrate it into our everyday lives. Thus, it aims to promote awareness of the human rights triptych which consists of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights. At the center, it is the authoritative definition of human rights standards drafted under the ABLE leadership of Eleanor Roosevelt. That document consists of five crucial notions, human dignity, non-discrimination, civil and political rights, economic, social, and cultural rights, and the rights to solidarity. It is increasingly being referred to as customary international law, which all nations and peoples of the world must abide. On the right panel in brief are conventions which have the status of international treaty, such as the rights of the child, the convention to eradicate racial discrimination, the convention to eliminate discrimination against women, and the convention on the rights of people with disabilities. On the left panel are implementation measures, such as reports of special rapporteurs, reports to United Nations monitoring committees, and world conferences. But again, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is the authoritative definition of human rights standards, which was drafted under the ABLE leadership of Eleanor Roosevelt. I'm here with Dr. Anthony Hill, Associate Professor of Social Work, a colleague. How long have I known you now? I don't know. Eight years. Eight years. Okay. Good for you. Pleasure. Yes. Good for you. And he's going to be continuing to talk about healthy masculinity, and healthy masculinity is obviously fundamental to creating a human rights culture, as well as healthy femininity. So Tony, just keep on going. Tell me more about some of the programs you have. And then, well, I'm kind of a macro person myself, and any advice you have for changing society, the way we socialize our boys, when, you know, I'm kind of a fan of David Chappelle. You know, David Chappelle? He has this thing about Pepe Le Pew, the skunk who's a rapist. And he's wondering, what are we teaching our kids? I mean, this is just so fundamental. And I mean, I grew up with Popeye, who was violent, and he smoked, and, you know, I would imagine kids still watch this stuff. So I have questions, broader questions about what we can do to stop socializing our boys into violence, and, you know, apparently they're doing this to girls now, too. Right. So it's sort of taking on the alienated state of men. This is what you'll go on, I've said a while back, about what's going on. That's another story. So keep on going. You're doing fine. And then, that's it? Okay. Well, what's interesting is, usually, I'm glad we're focusing on healthy masculinity, because when we talk about toxic masculinity, people may say, hey, listen, you're trying to make all our boys soft, you know, and not be men. You want everyone to be feminine. So someone came up to me and said to me, I see you're doing all this work on toxic masculinity, healthy masculinity. What do you want to get rid of football, huh? You want to get rid of football, football's too violent for you, you know. And I think there is something to be said about football. I was going to say that. Concussions and the long lasting impact of that, so I'm glad that there are efforts to make it more safe. But what I said to him was, I knew that he, like myself, was raising daughters. And I think he was not able to get it until I said to him, what type of men do you want to have in your daughter's life as they get older? Right. Interesting. And I think he made all the difference to him because then he was able to see that, you know, wow, I want someone who's going to be respectful, who's not going to be violent, who's not going to be a contributor, a positive force in his daughter's life. So I think that was able to see the importance and the vital nature of this work. So again, looking at getting beyond the mask, getting beyond the mask, and really allowing young men to be authentic, to be true to who they are, and just think about the pressure of saying at seven, eight years old, single parent families, of saying you're the man of the house. What does that mean? Well, there's a lot of that in a weird kind of way. They have 14-year-olds and 15-year-olds that are kind of the man of the house and all the parents might be on drugs or something. I mean this in a different sense, of course, where pushing men into these roles of machismo or something, unwittingly even, but that's another story. I think it's important. I think it's important that individuals step up and I think it's really important for men to step up and contribute as much as possible, but also I think too that we really need to have mentors. And I think I'm not saying that women cannot raise successful boys, but I think also having mentors, uncles, religious figures, coaches, teachers also can play a role into socializing men to be healthy and to really have a respect for women, so I think that's very vital. So I think this topic, I really focus on healthy masculinity instead of looking at a negative and saying toxic masculinity, and unfortunately I think that people will look at dichotomous terms of saying masculinity is bad, but I love being a male, nothing wrong with being a male, but I think this healthy masculinity is, I think Marin Wright Edelman says it best, where she says- Yes, she's great. I think she's just retired. I don't- Yes, she did. Too bad. Service is the rent we pay for living on this earth, and then what I really like what she says is how can we make this world a better place than we found it? So what's your legacy? So I'm glad and really thrilled that I've had the opportunity to work with young men to help them be fully expressed themselves and being able to ask for help. Another thing that I've been able to work with these young men about is this stigma of mental illness, so being able to address issues of trauma and to be able to engage in therapy and being able to ask for help and realize that depression is real, anxiety is real. I've touched on this before. Suicide among adolescent boys has gone quadrupled or something. I mean it's gone up with the girls too, but it apparently appreciably more with boys. Four times quadrupled in the last whatever. And I think also, white elderly males, it's really off the charts with white elderly males as well. That's another yes, I know. So creating these safe spaces to have conversations and not just continuing to do the same old thing, continuing to get past the boys will be boys, but really beginning to shape and socialize boys to be caring, to be loving, to be respectful to each other, and also to young ladies as well. Sounds great. Yes. So what else are we going to talk about? We don't have to complicate matters. I think that says it all. But maybe you can talk more. Are there any talk more of some other programs that you know of that might be working and also talk about some of the, well, not failures, but some of the things where you might have done that they kind of didn't work out that good, that well, and they had a change. I remember back in the, I think it was the 80s or the 90s, they had this scared straight program. I don't know if you remember that prisoners, but they got up there and they start cursing and starting scaring people and kids, mostly boys, not to do, not to whatever, steal or act macho or do something. And it really backfired the whole thing. And yeah, backfired. So in other words, we have tried things out to help men, boys, adolescent boys, and some of these were failures. And, you know, so maybe we could talk about some things that we've learned from the past. You learned and also talk about, talk about some of the successes. One thing that I want to share with you. There's an organization out of New York. It's called a call to men, a call to men. And basically it's an organization that has great resources on its website. Also, they offer a free curriculum. So this organization called to men. Okay. Yes. So this organization will go out into the community. So they'll work with sports teams. They'll work with high school students, college students to get this message of healthy masculinity out. I've had the opportunity last spring to attend a two day training institute with them and really gain some very valuable information about the role of toxic masculinity throughout the ages. You know, so it's very helpful. One of the things that they have too is a free curriculum. So folks are interested in schools to look at a middle school and high school free curriculum, go online, become certified and to transmit this knowledge that I'm sharing with you today about how to sort of teach our young boys how to be more respectful, more caring boys. I think that would be very helpful to look at that website and a lot of It's a call to men.org. A call to men.org. Yes. Okay. One word. Got that? A call to men.org. It's very helpful. There's a great, one of the founders is Tony Porter. And he has a great, well received Ted talk that he does. And talk. You should do a Ted talk. Well, this is, this is an era of interest of mine. And I'm really glad that I have the opportunity to be a part of it, to be a part of it. So are there any, you learned a lot at that conference? Are there any other things that you'd like to share with our viewers that you might have learned to compliment some of the things you said? I don't want to put you on the spot. Yeah, I mean, yeah, no, I think it's great. And then I also want to talk a little bit about more, I'm sort of a macro person. So you have someone who, you mentioned that guy before. He wanted to ace an exam. So he aces an exam. He wants to go to college. Yes. But then the tuition is out of sight and he can't afford to go and it's depressing. And so we have to see everything in context. So we also, well, I think we need to have free college. I mean, it's paid for by taxes, obviously. But that's also part of the whole shebang, I think. Yeah. And we mustn't lose sight of that. So for the whole issue of access, the issue of access and opportunity, I agree. To health care. Yes. In college. Yes. Yes. Well, Joe, you probably realize this. I know I utilize this is Michael Morris. Who who do we invade next? So it talks about you got to be joking. I use Michael more all the time. OK, OK. And yeah, most of my students like it. But I have one student that says, what do you have against this country? But it's really interesting to think about. It's really interesting to really look at. They don't they don't give junk food to the kids. Yeah, you know, where to invade next is great. Yeah. And you think about it's all about war, but it really isn't. Basically, what it looks at is the ideas that originated in the United States, other countries are taking these ideas and utilizing them and having innovative policies and programs. Yes, it's doing well. So when he said, where do we invade next? He said, we're going to invade these other countries that have discussed all practices that originated right here in the United States. And how do we implement those back and steal those back and utilize this? So you talked about the issue of college tuition. Right. It's free in Europe. Basically, my home work. Yes, daycares. Yeah, daycare, you know, student loans, you know, we're interviewing students and they're saying, what is what is student loans? What does that mean? I don't know what that means. They have no idea. Yeah. Social workers get sabbaticals roughly every four years. They're all for three months. Wow. And when they go on internships, the school pays for them. I tell these to my students and they freak out and say, you know, there's other places. Yeah. So I'm going to make a joke. Sure. Is this what Trump meant by make America great again? I'm making a joke because we did a lot of great stuff. Even when the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was drafted. I'm sure Donna Hicks spoke about that. Eleanor Roosevelt was an American and she was the chair of the drafting committee. Wow. So maybe this is what Trump meant. It's a joke. I don't think that's what he meant. No, but the American delegation was for free. Education, free health care was paid for by taxes and they were pushing this stuff. And in a weird kind of way, that document wouldn't have been around if it weren't for. Us, I mean, in a weird kind of way, well, we were major leaders. I don't think we're leaders now because we have all kinds of problems here. What's interesting education. And there's something like what, 250 school shootings last year, I believe something like that. The next highest country was Canada with two or something, Germany. So we're talking about more macro, more macro issues now. But I think it's all related. So anyway, yeah. So when you think about child care and the expense of child care, when you think about college tuition. Yes, when you think about health care, yes. And when you also think about putting parents giving them home care, home health aid and care as they become seniors. It was interesting looking at those other countries and their tax rate is not that much higher than ours. But their taxes cover all those expenses. Well, with tuition and co-pays, I believe we pay more. Yes, yes. With the equivalent of taxes. You'll never forget that scene with son Michael. One Michael Moore movie where the single mother was having problems, she was trying to raise, I think, three kids. Michael Moore's a bull. Does the government do your laundry, too? In the next scene, someone was from the government doing the laundry for her, helping her out. Wow, wow. So, you know, I think Europe is much more advanced than we are. Of course, when I say that, some people go, well, move there. Well, as I said, you know, they don't have as many school shootings, you know, tuition is free and, you know. So, all this is related to healthy masculinity. Well, I think when you also think about peace, you know, in this issue of competition, you know, but imagine if we had like a peace studies. Well, they have peace studies. Yes, but it's not as widespread, you know, this focus and proliferation on war. I heard someone say, would it be great if our schools had everything they needed instead of having bake sales? But wouldn't it be great if the military would have to have a bake sale? You know, but we just spend and spend and spend on military. Like killing strangers. But imagine if we invested that money in education. And even though we know some viewers are veterans and they're married to veterans and I'm 100% in support of veterans. Yes. They put themselves in harm's way in their conscience. I just want to say I'm 100% in support of them and they're not treated very well. Right, right. On the other hand, I just want to say that what people say is our history books, basically they do nothing, but kind of support male hegemony. Yeah. I don't know, when I was a kid, I was there with my go-kart and playing marbles and stuff. And then I go to school and then all of a sudden there's the Revolutionary War, World War II. I didn't realize we were so violent and I started getting socialized into thinking. The way to resolve problems is through violence. And this is the way most boys, I think, are socialized. Yeah. So that's a more macro issue. Definitely have to change that paradigm. And as I mentioned, really looking at how boys are socialized, but also how young ladies, how girls are socialized as well. So when you think about the images of body image and size and what was interesting, just reading recently, the increase in anxiety and depression and mental illness of children, not only adolescents, but also children. Suicide rates have gone up for kids under age seven. Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's astonishing. That's astonishing. Yeah. Totally astonishing. Yeah. I only know what Many York Times tells me. Yeah. So. Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. Is there anything, so what can our viewers do? Do you have any advice to help promoting healthy masculinity throughout our culture? How we could change our culture so that? I think as we know better, I think. Boys, growth and development and girls, of course, but the growth and development could be promoted. I think awareness is key. I think we need to be more aware and I think knowledge and seeking knowledge of this topic, because I think as we know better, then we can do better. So instead of continually do the same old things. Again, I want to say that I don't want to stop out, stomp out masculinity, you know, but I think that we have to really look at the toll and the cost of our narrow constriction of what masculinity is and the damage that's being done. So I think we need to really take stock of this issue of aggression, this issue of misogyny, this hatred of women, this issue of males not being able to feel of being tough and how not everyone fits into that mode. Not everyone wants to be a football or basketball or sports, but really allowing men and women to fully be expressive of their own identity. I think it's crucial. I think parents play a great role. They do play a great role, obviously. And like I said before, there are a lot of studies that say when the father takes an interest in their kids and spends a lot of time with them, especially girls actually, OK? It's a tremendous predictor of empathy. Yes. They have a lot more empathy. I'm not, again, I'm not minimizing the role that mothers can have. Yes. And certainly, if a kid grows up without a father, that doesn't mean they are not going to be empathetic. I mean, you know. Will it be successful? Yeah. I mean, it's totally ridiculous, you know. And, you know, but I'm trying to say that sometimes men have not been given their base credit for the fact that they can be nurturers. Yes. Yes. Well, usually you'll hear people saying boys need their fathers. Yeah. But I think you raise a good point of also girls also need their fathers to be actively involved in their lives. Yes. Because you often hear this slogan, looking for love in all the wrong places. Yes. You know, so, you know, you really want to, and I've heard, and this is really germane to me because I have two daughters. I know you do. So I really want my daughters to be in healthy relationships, you know. And who they choose, I hope, will be a reflection of the experience that I've had with them, you know. So I want them to be strong. I want them to know that they can do anything, that they can be strong, independent, and they can be in partnership as opposed to being subservient to a male. Yeah, sounds good to me. Yes. So who are some of the people out there that you think are good role models for men? And do any of the boys talk about them? You know, when I was a kid, we really didn't have that many. Yeah. Well, I used to like who? Danny Kay. You don't even know who he is. But he was a children's thing. He was sort of the Angelina Jalila of these. Yeah. And there was John F. Kennedy. There were some pretty good people out there. But nowadays, who do the kids have? Well, I think the students, the young people. I don't really think of our president as a good example. Well, I think Barack Obama was a great example of being a loving father, a caring husband, and someone who had a great character. Yes, a great character. I think, unfortunately, wow. I mean, what do the kids say nowadays? I mean, who do they look up to in the media? I'm just wondering. I still think they look up to rappers, so hip-hop artists, athletes. So I think that's a major focus. It was interesting just recently, celebrities. So those who are on, they called them social influencers. So people who are on YouTube and these videos or celebrities, they're sort of looking up to them. But I think the role model should be close and hopefully will be in the family. So hopefully it would be teachers, it would be coaches. It would be something that they can see that's close as opposed to something that's out there. Because the grass may look greener on the other side, but I heard someone say, but somebody has to mow it. Well, that's a good, you know. So someone has to mow it. And you look at the grass and it looks greener on the other side, but I heard someone say, but you don't know the water bill to keep that grass green. So looks can be deceiving. So it would be great if there were role models that were close, that someone that they could talk to, could ask questions and answer questions and to be a present help to some of the struggles that they might be going through. And this is all our challenges, our viewers. Absolutely, absolutely. All right, this has been great. Well, thank you for having me. Do you have any other final words of wisdom or lack thereof? Well, I think that when we think of what does it mean to be a man? We think of being strong, being a protector, showing compassion, showing empathy, and I think showing love. And I don't think that's just leadership, but I don't think that's just masculine traits. I think those are just human traits. And you can also say that females and girls can also be all of those attributes as well. So you mentioned love, so why don't I end with a quote from my childhood hero who was crazy horse. And I did a book report on crazy horse. We had to choose a famous person, and he was a Native American. And my teacher made me do it over. He said, who cares about crazy horse? And he literally said, why don't you do it on General Custer or President? So I did it on General Custer, hated the guy. So I was literally told to do a book report on a white supremacist, literally. But a crazy horse was a great humanitarian. He was a human rights person. And there is what is referred to as the spirit of crazy horse, which is having the vision of the eagle. The eagle goes right into the storm and the courage, but the courage of the eagle. But basically having peace, humility, and everlasting love. And I think that's what it's about, crazy horse. Yeah, he was a man, and he was a great humanitarian. He could never understand how, well, white people, he would say, are so evil to one another. The way the elders are treated, the way children are treated, and he was a humanitarian. And he met the same fate that kind of Malcolm X met. Just he got stabbed in the back and died, and Malcolm X was talking and got shot. So maybe if you're for everlasting love or for human rights, I don't know, people don't like it or something, especially if you're a man. So thank you very much. It's a pleasure. Thank you. And maybe we'll do this again sometime. Absolutely. Absolutely, thanks for having me. Glad to be here. Thanks everyone for tuning in and listening. So take care of yourself and take care of others as needs be.