 Welcome back. It's still the breakfast and plus TV Africa as we focus our attention this time around to security martyrs The chief of the fanstaff general Leo Erebor has condemned the increase in cases of military personal aid in and a betting Terrorism bandage in the country in a letter sent to all commanders of various operations Erebor asked them to Sensitize their officers to the implication of collaborating with the enemy now recently last Corporal of the lion jibrin and instructor with the Niger army battalion in gay Demiobus state committed suicide He took his life after he was arrested for allegedly conniving at Boko Haram in search into attacked Yobi communities recently A jibrin who disappeared from his duty post was set to have been cited among the Boko Haram terrorists who had earlier attacked Gay Dam town without being joined by security consultant and of course a former army person Oh, let's make welcome Ambassador Roy or he never many. Thanks for joining us on the breakfast on plus TV Africa Yeah, good morning. It's always a pleasure Alright, let's just dive into it Ambassador Roy these actually this happening when we hear Reports like this are when the military is telling us that them they have You know decimated Boko Haram and the insurgent we hear reports that they are actually in court Sleeping with the enemy. What does this really tell you? Ambassador Roy, yeah, go ahead. We can hear you Okay, well, there was a little break in your transmission, but um, I Kind of understand that we're looking at the concerns emanating from the Yes, yes, okay now you see These things have been Spoken about it is not now these things have been spoken about It's just because of the blessings of social media That you could quickly see the viewer video and everybody had the story before the army started to respond You know in those days the the military was like a cult, you know, and then it's not possible For you to be a mole. It's it's like 99% impossible because in your house Another personnel can just knock the door and say where this bugger and your wife will say is inside And he will just walk into your room You know your phone you can leave your phone your phone is ringing somebody has to pick the phone and say hello Okay, it's not here. I will tell him. No, so we were actually in each other's face all the time You know, you are either in a platoon in a battalion in the division in a garrison You are always within a compact community of your colleagues and It's not so possible for you to just quickly begin to align That is even one reason why the coup d'etat in Nigeria was not so So so rampant, you know, it's easier to just break loose and somebody hears about it Are you here? There was an attempted to because everybody's in in everybody's face And that was how some senior army general started to complain if you remember so many of them were retired forcefully because they were complaining they were complaining about the undue influence of ethnicity the undue influence of religious preference in the military discipline, you know, so the religious preference the Ethnicity began to permeate through the military and that was the complaint of very senior officers And they were retired so many of them were dismissed. They were Implicated because we fail to see the truth in what they were saying and do you know how many lives are being lost? You remember all the times we hear that soldiers on patrol were We are ambushed on the road. We hear that soldiers going to rescue another unit would be ambushed on the road. We hear Suicide bombers penetrating into barracks. How did they get into the barracks? How did they get into the mummy market to blow up the place? You know, but we didn't understand and we went ahead to start the Radicalization process instead of imprisonment and recycle. There is a criminal justice system Every criminal is supposed to be apprehended taking to courts The evidence presented and his sentence either to death or to years imprisonment If it's years imprisonment then the things that are supposed to happen there is the Radicalization is the same thing that we all go through as criminals as citizens of this country You know, if it's not a citizen of this country, then you call him to play the laws guiding him from his country and We fail to do this. We started to create Radicalization camps giving them better food than the IDPs We started to recycle them into the society giving them financial empowerment Most of them we are allowed to Recycle back into the military the police and people we are saying this and you know that if you if you want to know why I'm convinced There is no statistics to show where each of the Radicalized personnel are today. There's no statistics and we don't know where they are So if we don't know where they are, how can we say they are not in our military? Okay, I mean from listening to your thoughts this morning Why has it been very difficult for us to address the issue? If we understand it from the beginning like you have mentioned the fact that you had several sentiments That would have led, you know having The military being involved in the security challenge that were faced with so How why is it that we? Never addressed it Well, I Believe we all know why I mentioned about the compromise on religious belief I mentioned about the compromise on ethnicity You see when those two things started to come into the professional bodies like the DSS the Immigrations the armed forces the police It was that's before it was a dead sentence for those agents because If you if you see during and seller periods in the back, you know Everybody gravitates towards whoever is a Muslim to what it's doing In fact, you hear him being called a bugger my friend will bring this in the Christian celebrations Everybody is going to each of every Christian's home, you know When these politics came into play and Nigerian politicians started to favor the use of ethnicity and religious belief as a yardstick to form cliques and Groups then we should have allowed it to get into the military because it become it became a yard All right, I would try and reconnect it with ambassador That is going to favor us to become a Military attachee somewhere. So everybody started to dance to the tune of the politicians So whoever with political party was in power What tried was the person what religion was the person began to be the discourse And that was where people started to penetrate and destroy the professionalism in our agencies So that's the sad news All right, I'm right a lot has been said concerning, you know those in government also been Having some sort of collaboration between this Boko Haram over time if you remember the case of the CBN and deputy governor Obadiah Milafia when he said that when he claimed that we have the today terrorist Review that a certain northern governor is actually aiding and abetting and this Boko Haram insurgent But it is right now Where do how do we move forward the chief of the fence that has actually come out to speak to troops? You know on the way forward and not collaborating, but is that enough? You know still have like you said some of this We radicalize the radicalized people still in the fringes of our society Just how do we begin to ensure that and they don't revert into the military system yet again? Well, you know Office of the chief of defense of the service chiefs. They are handicapped They are very very The the attorney general of the federation the minister of justice They all agree that we know those that sponsor terrorism They agreed that they've mentioned we have it online You can Google that the names were sent evil from the UAE and all that Then we know that some governors have been Mentioned even by the arrested Apprehended criminals when they confessed those same people they migrate from being a governor to a senator Don't say people migrate from senator. They are they are contesting now for President Then people that are mean it's us that are mentioned So faithful terrorism many of them are now going to be God knows also So why are we recycling people that have questions to answer? Why is it that the agencies the ICPC the FCC the DSS why don't they have to Execute the the punitive measures be the investigative Constitution you know our constitution have limits to what you can do what you can own I CPC has been assigned to do that. But who does that now? We are hearing that Malami is giving cars today this morning. We had that this is friends that are donating cars We have had that is launching a hotel But when abacare was doing all of those things it was fun fair on on social media Now we are hearing about millions if our Tracking of terrorists has taken us to the doorsteps of God knows why are they not persecuted? Why is executive and vote not used to disalign the immunity? Why is it that? They are allowed to As Those that favor terrorism and they still hold up you should live off it and answer the Defense chief is handicapped the service chiefs. They are handicapped the ministry of defense the minister of defense We have not been able to take any Passion on all of the complaints of military veterans These are the community that brings the old tradition of the military that would also support official the most in the military They are neglected is it intentional so that they will not be able to speak So all of these things that is going on is political is travel and it's religious sentiment implied Well, you seem to have actually put out some of the questions But we're hoping that you definitely answer them. You have rightly mentioned over and over again the issue of the minister, you know Generals themselves the ministry being handicapped. Why are they handicapped? Okay, let me If you if you go back like two years if you go and count the number of military generals that have been retired and You will understand that Certain people have favored hold positions Because they are favored by the current political body language So if they hold those positions, they answer to the drums being beaten by the Musician at the stage so anybody that allows themselves to be given a An office an efforts office in any agency in Nigeria and you don't Participate as a professional. You don't resist influence from political debates from political postulate You allow those influence into your professionalism as the head of an agency in Nigeria Put together to stabilize the country and protect the people Then you compromise if you cannot take a decision and you allow yourself men in office To perpetrate such on on on professional activities Then you should resign. Look at the recruitments to the police Look at the recruitment in the military Look at the Why is it that Why is the agency promotion pattern? Why is it on favoritism gone? Why is it deployment pattern? So are you saying are you saying that I'm trying to understand, you know Are you saying that that the current government that the ruling class in Nigeria is responsible for all of this impunity? Is that what you're saying? Who is responsible for our presidency dying for every minister? Their unpatriotic Activities is clear for everyone to see. What is afraid to talk because some of us have seen that many times So when we come out to speak, we don't care about the the repercussion Whatever because what we are saying is online. You can carry your Google and check Soldiers have been complaining that they are at the front line beyond three years Three years. Nobody have not seen his family. It's on Google. Go and check. He's begging for pass Some of them were not giving pass. They left the front line back to their family Coming back. They are dismissed. They are published as a wall. A wall is absent without officially How does that translate? I mean we're trying to understand how does that translate to the impunity That we're seeing that if you have some persons who have been mentioned as sponsoring being sponsors of terrorists or Some military officials that have been, you know, also been mentioned as collaborating with this Terrorist and bandit. However, we want to call it to perpetrate all of this evil How come they have not been arrested? How come the law has not caught up with them? I mean, you have the police to do all of this You have relevant agencies and bodies to do all of this So how does all of this translate to the impunity and the fact that you know the executive arm of government or this Current administration those who are the ruling class currently are responsible for all of this Well, like you said, you said I have answered all your questions You can now understand that impunity of office Means that you can do what you like not what the office details Now if there is a case that need to go to court martial And that case that need to go to court martial is buying time Is being ignored Don't you know that there is impunity of office the abacari case? He was supposed to have answered for all of the until other cases began to pop up Go and look at military men that were involved in the wadume And case with the police. So what was the outcome of that? You know the wadume case wadume is still there And the military that were said to be involved What happened to them? There was an army officer that was said to have carried Monies belonging to the military And soldiers are locked with that money who was in court martial. He started to fence in court martial How many people were culpable? Who is the one that took money? Are you telling me that there are no other people entangled in that misappropriation? Where are those people? This courier that was killed today How did he die? It was said that the two guns from the people that Uncaught him and were leading him to incarceration Uncaught himself not them You know so so many things are proven That there is impunity of office There are people that were said to have been mentioned to be Related to sponsored terrorism at the military Where are they? You know so many other officers have been investigated Who are those that are composing with him? The Ministry of Justice, what does it do? Is it the Ministry of Justice responsibility to defend people that were said to be against this? Or to prosecute their judicial and punitive measures? We are afraid that we cannot answer properly All right, Dr. Headeva fine We have established the fact that there is a security bridge, you know in the Nigerian army, Nigerian military now But going forward now, let's proffer a solution to all of this issue. What do we begin to do? The CDS has written to army commanders and all of that, but is that enough? What more can be done? What I see here We will wait for 2023 as my first advice Then we should begin to learn how to vote for the right people. That's number one Number two is this in the military itself because of the lives we are losing I employed the service chiefs, the people, the defense staff, no matter what kind of letter you have written So actually and appropriately begin to fish out more Be assured that you are living in service. So you are coming out to the civilian enclave So you need to fish out more because the army, the military is the strongest protection line of any country So if we don't protect it, if we don't design a professional organization That will continue to exist in its capacity Then we are making a very big mistake Then we also advise that every military person that discovers that there is activity There are activities of most should please find appropriate channels other channels to begin to speak You can release that information for retired military personnel That you know that you can trust and I assure you that the veteran community Will not accept it because so many retired personnel their children are in service So if you have any information as a military personnel pass it to the veteran community And we know what to do to safeguard the military of the country But you said that we need to get to a point where we we should hold on to 2023 And we're just imagining how long Nigerians can hold on. I mean if we would even survive 2023 because it's a long time You know to get to but let's stay with the the issue now that you have raised 2023 vote the right people and will that make any difference because The argument here is that we seem to have Weak institutions and institutions are not just made by themselves these structures are created You know are run by people So if you have a weak institution and you have strong men And the election is very critical For every government So how then do you have a system That you have weak institution and you have strong men Provide a credible election in 2023 that should rewrite the wrong Don't you think that this is just a myth? Well But when you call someone a strong man As we speak Ghana Weak in every aspect every Ghanaian was finding any country to go and find Is is daily bread But there was a strong man That sat on the seat see strength attract strength By the grace of god and by every Nigerian Intent specific We shall put the stronger power And I'll show you that Nigerians that are also From We need to work office in these institutions. That is only it's a myth But we pray that the myth begin to come to really Because I mean it's such a strong one probably we might never get there a serious mirage if you ask me Because looking at 2023 now This is not to say that we're wanting to sound like a prophet of doom But if you have a system where we constantly say that the reason why we've not had had This persons facing the law if you say you have military peasants who are involved in crime and criminality abating crime and you know conniving with Terrorists to cause havoc. Why haven't they been arrested? That's because you have a weak institution And these institutions are not being run by people. I mean they're not run by spirits for people And so these peasants have constantly weakened the institution Is it the same institution that we're hoping that in 2023 would deliver a credible elections? That will get us to a point where we need to get to so we might probably just go in circle In circle until we'll probably find another way out So that that's We're going to do this There is there is a pattern of Change of government that I've been speaking about When we want to change government Anybody planning to come in as low as a councilor a local government chairman You must understand that your office of administration your office of accountability your finance office Your office of procurement Those are places that you must put in the people that you have been grooming for such a You know, you don't need to say this person was very fast during our campaign No If that person does not fit into only rule you don't get nothing anyway because Into your campaign We must look at people that we term round pegs in round holds You know, so if you if you are campaigning to be a governor, please As we have always said begin to look for proper accountant generals Begin to look for proper tools to put in your procurement begin to look at your approvers your vendor approval process People that we do this to for you people that will not be asking for kickback People that will not be looking for sentiment. Is it from our party? Is it from our religion? What tribe is he so if you can begin now? As Going to hold office and we see you at the strong Begin to plan to plant strong people begin to Advance people and strategic positions Strategic offices not because they are members of your party not because they are your type's men Not because they attend the same child or month with you The results that you will get is commensurate to the tuition strength that are going to work with you So if you don't think about that now, you are purely purely on a jamboree All right, we still have um, dr. Roy or he diverse security expert with us here in the studios We'll take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about more emerging security challenges Facing the country all in the moment. Stay with us