 My name is Grace Cox, but everybody calls me Senora Chela. And the reason, I think, was that when I came here, I was married to Dewey Tapp, and my name was Grace Tapp. Tapp is a Prussian name, and the students were saying, Senora, it should be Frau Tapp, you know. And so they're kidding about it, et cetera. We had a Spanish meeting, and they said, well, we'll just call you Senora Chela. And that's when it happened at the very beginning because of the last name Tapp. Okay. So then I came here in 1966, when 67, the year in 66, 67, when the college at that time, SOC, was hiring a lot of people. And I wasn't going to come. I had other plans. I had my masters from Boulder, Colorado University of Colorado in Boulder, and I was planning on getting my doctorate degree. And I got three offers, very good offers. One was in Seattle, one was in Chicago, and one was in Salamanca, in Spain. And I, of course, decided Salamanca, Spain. And then coming here, and the reason I'm mentioning this, because it was my husband who was very ill at the time. He was a veteran of the World War II, et cetera, had a bad heart. And he knew that he didn't have lung, you know. And he said, well, you go get your doctorate because you're going to have to support the kids. I had three boys. And then I'll take care of the kids while you're gone, et cetera. And as I kept noticing him, I noticed that he was getting weaker. And I said, I can't, I just can't go. I have to stay with the kids and with him. So we decided to come here because SOC definitely wanted a person in Spanish and in French. So I had taught Spanish and French before. So Dr. Hanan, who was the person who came to Lewis and Clark where I was teaching, said that they needed a Spanish-French teacher. And I was teaching Spanish and French in Louis and Clark. So I came and I was happy that I did because he died exactly a year later. Just that was it. And then I thought, well, it's my time now to go to Salamanca. And they had said that they would leave the scholarship open to get the doctorate. Because at that time, Spain wasn't open so much to receive people from the United States or anyone because they just didn't have that type of a program. So they were looking for US people. And so they held it open for me, not because of me, but that was the thing that they were thinking about. And so I called them and I said, I think I'm going to be able to go. And I talked to Dr. Stevenson, who was the president of the university. And he asked me, please not to go. And because while I was here, apparently the attendance, the enrollment, had kind of doubled in Spanish and in French. And so they wanted me to stay. And especially in Spanish. And they had an opening for another French teacher. And so I was only in Spanish. And I decided that was a big decision because I had to forego my doctorate then and stay because I knew that I couldn't go later on with three kids. It was just sort of a, I was frozen in that time and that space and that decision. So that's what happened. And he said it wouldn't matter to the university here. But asked, please if I would stay because I had spoken about having different exchanges. And we had had lovely talks about some academic programs. And he rather wanted to see them fulfilled. And so he was very adamant about me staying. And it's nice to have someone really want you. And you have the other, not drawbacks, but the other responsibilities of kids, you know, and what to do. So this was nice. And this, at the time, Ashen was and still is in its way. But it has changed an Americana. It was just an American city in the sense that good place to raise kids. You wouldn't, didn't have to worry about it. And in the sense that for the first five or almost eight years, hardly anyone locked their doors in Ashland. We didn't lock our car doors. I know we didn't lock our doors. We'd go anywhere. And it was just that safe. It was just really a little fairy tale happy land, you know. And there was no lights. For example, on Sisq and Mountain, there were no lights there. You know, if you can imagine that. And the traffic wasn't as much. And so it was a nice college, SOC. And it was a friendly college. At the time, I remember the first year I came, the first week, the first day that we reported. This was before the students came, of course, for a week before. Is that we had to take the books over to the new library. And every, professors all laughed because we were all of us taking, and some professors even brought little red wagons to carry their books in. I wish that someone had taken pictures of that. I have never seen a picture of the professors carrying their books over. I know we had all our language books to take over to the library. We did not put them in the shelves. That wasn't our responsibility. But we did have to take them over and put them in a section. And we were all laughing, giggling even, because it was so weird. That was our first job, you know, that we had to do. And then we had our teachers' meetings, our faculty professor meetings. And at that time, the school was oriented more towards the faculty. Faculty was separated from staff. To me, it was not a negative way at all. It was just that was the way it was. And we had our faculty meetings. And I remember that everyone was teasing me, because there weren't many women on the campus at that time, women professors or even instructors. And so when I was hired, Dennis Hannon, the professor, was kidding me more than anyone, that they used me in three categories. Number one, they wanted representative women more on the college faculty. And I was Hispanic, and I was Indian. My mother is Apache Indian from the Mascalaro tribe, that's the Geronimo's tribe. And my father is from Spain, Avila. So therefore I am what one calls a mestiza, a mixture of two races, you know, etc. And most of the people in Mexico are mestizos. They're Mexicans, but they're mestizos. The blending of the two races, the European and the Indian race. So they used me in that manner. I don't say use, I don't mean that as a negative sense, but it was interesting, it was kind of funny, and it was good for some laughs in some quarters. So then that's how it started. And I propose this while I can remember and we're on the subject more or less. I was asked informally if I would please be the counselor, sort of someone that would guide and help the Native American people that we had here from the Calameth Reservation. And there weren't that many, but there were enough for them to be concerned that they had someone to talk to them, etc. My duties weren't large in any way, shape, or form, but I enjoyed it and we did a lot of talking. And this was the time when the Calameth people were going through that big thing about them selling their land and everybody getting a piece. And it was a topic of conversation in many circles throughout the valley, you know, what was happening, because people were concerned about what are we going to do about water rights and all this type of thing. And the students from there came with these feelings and with these ideas and how would people accept this and what are we going to do. And that was very much on their mind, you know, how would it change their life. So that was interesting. And another thing apropos that particular situation is that I always liked to get up early in the morning, so the department just loved me because nobody wanted to have the 8 o'clock classes. And I just said, hey, that's for me, that's my forte. I love, I'm right awake in the morning. And so throughout practically my entire career, which was from then to 1998, I took any time there was an 8 o'clock class, I took it. And the reason I'm telling you this is the funny thing, and it happened through all the years, that the people that came from Calamity, you know, and from California and from Grants Pass were the students that were always on time. And the students that came from the dorms, they were the ones that had a sneak in the door, you know, at 8 o'clock. It was just something, this human nature or whatever it is. And I always laughed about it because it was true to form every year, every year. But I love those classes in the morning. And I did get a lot of those lovely students that were very concerned about their education and would travel through rain and snow and whatnot all the time to get four years. That four years is a lot of time to do that with all the coming over the mountain and coming through the curves from Calamity Falls, et cetera. I had great respect for those students and their motivation. So then let's start back. So I decided to stay. And I had had experience in Washington where I was at Lewis and Clark College there with Sister City in Vancouver, Washington. And the Sister City was Arequipa Perru, which is another old colonial town in Peru. And so while I was there, for two years I was at the Sister City and I loved the experience of it and saw the benefit of it, not only for the students but for the townspeople. Because in those days, this was way before Martin Luther King, not way before, but the whole southwest, not California and not necessarily Washington, Vancouver, yes, because Vancouver was a small little town, but people were very provincial. And so the only people that they saw, and there was a true here, people from other cultures that they saw was the international students. And I think there was one black student, I can't remember, at least the one that I had acquaintance with in the campus at that time. So Ashland truly was a provincial town in the sense and they really appreciated the international students. The community loved the international students because they had a chance to talk to them. And so for that reason, it was good for Ashland. And so I got in my bonnet when I was here. Well, why don't we start a sister city? And I asked the mayor and Dr. Stevenson what they thought about it and they said, well, Dr. Stevenson thought he really didn't know about it, but he trusted my judgment and that you'll go ahead, you know, we'll see what we can do. And the mayor in the chamber here said, well, they were looking for a sister city as a matter of fact, but they were looking for one in England because of the Shakespeare connection. And I thought, okay, well, you know, I simmered on that for a while and then something extraordinary happened that changed my whole life and was very much responsible for having our sister city. My son at the time, I have three sons and they fit the description of this whole mestizo thing that I'm talking about. The first one is very, my color more or less with brown eyes and the second one was born, because my father was very blond with blue eyes from Spain, was born blond hair and very, very blue green eyes and the third one was totally Indian, very dark, but with green eyes. Okay, so there was that mixture. This lovely third son was six years old at the time and his father had just died. Okay, this was a year after, and so he was ready to enter. The first year he went to the little kindergarten, preschools that still exist and it's one of the things that still has its charm here and so wonderful that we have that preschool, free school, you know, the little kindergarten school right here on the Avenue, Walker Street. So he entered first grade in Lincoln School and this was before, again, the Martin Luther King thing. The first day of school, two weeks after his father had died, he was a very nervous little kid and he came home in a very bad after school. He came home rather disconcerted, very nervous and crying and he had a nose bleed and I asked him what had happened and he said the kids after school and during recess were teasing him, bullying him, calling him names. They didn't know what he was. They called him greaser and spick and everything they could think of and pummeled him. So this is not to be. So I went to talk to the teacher and she was a young teacher and she said, you know, I was aware of that not during recess but after school I saw that and I asked him if I could walk him home. We only lived two blocks from Lincoln School and he said no and ran home. So she said I will keep track of it and we'll see what can be done and so he went to school the next day and it was worse. His shirt was torn and so I went to see the principal and I said I can't have this and he certainly can't have it especially at the time that he was going through and I said I was going to have to take him and perhaps, you know, go to St. Mary's School or something in Medford or do something because we had no private school here and no charger school, et cetera. So she was very concerned about it and thought that she would talk to the parents, et cetera. Now this was of a Friday and so I thought about it over the weekend and I was trying to make arrangements, et cetera and I said, you know, I'm going to try something. And luckily for me and for him he was very talented. Our family always sang and danced and he picked up things just like this and he could sing and I taught him some apache I had taught him some apache dances and some of the chants. I taught him some Spanish little flamenco things and the Mexican hat dance, et cetera. So we always, as a family would always do this type of thing. The father, Dewey Tapp, was a musician. He had played in Denver, that's where we were from, played with the Denver Symphony and then in the weekends he played with the blacks in Denver with the jazz band and he was very, very good and he taught both of the older boys classic guitar. And so it was a very musical family all the time. So I asked the teacher to go along with me. This was my son's teacher in the first grade and would she please allow him to do show and tell for maybe two or three days? So that the students could see that there was something there and he had a background of something and so he did. And he did the first day I think he did the little Mexican hat dance and sang a little Spanish song and then the second day he did some Indian chants and some apache little drum things and the other teachers heard this and the words started going around and they invited him to their classes and within a week he was the hero of the school and this is just a lesson to show people that you don't have to call victim all the time or get it from the negative side. You know if there's some other way to get around it perhaps you could try it and I was very, very pleasantly and wonderfully surprised and so were the teachers and that totally throughout then the rest of his school life here and he went to all the schools went to Lincoln and the junior high they called it junior high at the time and to Ashland High School so he had a wonderful, wonderful career here in the school you know atmosphere. Ashton was a lovely time then the Martin Luther King took place and Ashland changed radically or at least if it wasn't a stable change it was in theory and it was more than tolerance then and they started recruiting more diverse people you know from the Hispanic and the although the valley had had Hispanic people because of all the workers here they did not live here in Ashland and the students didn't come to the school we started getting more Hispanic families in and the diversity rather exploded in contrast to what it used to be and that was a very good thing for the college and for the town and that's what cemented my idea going back to that particular week and seeing what happened that I thought well you know Ashland doesn't need England for a sister city they need Mexico you know and I had traveled in Mexico and I knew just the town because Guanajuato had a university a thriving university and there were many things that we had in common and I thought and having been there I knew that it was just the thing you know that we wanted so I asked permission from our president Stevenson and the mayor to go down and try to start a sister city and a sister university and even though it wasn't in my job description everything was done in a volunteer basis and the department fully recognized this and they went along with it and we started in Mexico in Guanajuato the mayor was all for it although they had a sister city but they weren't doing too well not California so we decided to become friendship cities for a year or so to see how that worked out and the university was not happy at all the University of Guanajuato had during the summertime they had all of these students coming from the top Ivy schools here they came from Harvard and from Berkeley and etc and these were generally the rich kids this was in the 60s and they went to the summer school in Guanajuato they had a thriving summer school and the people did not like them and the university president did not like them because this was the time of the hippies and they were wearing the hippie garb and Guanajuato at that time was very conservative the women were still wearing the black shawls and around them and over their head the men were wearing the hats etc very very stylish hats not Pancho Villa hats but very stylish beautiful Guanajuato regional hats and they did not like the fact that the girls were wearing shorts and doing all the hippie things that take place on the beach etc and their rector means president was even thinking about dismissing and not having summer school he thought that they were bad influence on the students etc so I did not know this till I spoke to him but I made an appointment with him and he told his secretary that he could only see me for 15 minutes and I said fine you know I will see what happens and so he did not come and it was in the morning and then so the secretary was embarrassed and made an appointment for the afternoon he did not show up so she says I do not know what is the matter he is very busy etc and could I please do it in the morning and I said well I am leaving the following morning so I hope that I could see him because my university president was very anxious to find out if we could have pardon me have a program so he did not come and so I found out where he lived and I thought I have got to come home so I went to his house and I knocked on his door and I said you know I do not know if you know me but we made an appointment for three times and I know you are very busy and I know that you probably could not come etc but I do need to see you if you could give me time and he looked at his watch and he said I can give you 15 minutes so I went in and I was there for two hours and he invited me for dinner and then we stayed and talked and I had all the recommendations that Dr. Stevenson had wanted we wanted a full blown academic one year program where our students would go and get credit over there not not you know just a flotsam summer tourist credits etc or most of the exchange programs at that time academic exchange and that was everywhere not all of them but a majority of them would send our professors over there with their students and it would be our professors that would teach them there in that country which really is not in my way of thinking a good exchange you know and so we talked over the fact that this was to be an academic program where our students would go enter all of their classes and not just be in a group not you know cultural things but if they were for example want to be a policeman they would be in that particular study if they wanted to be artists if they wanted to be whatever English psychologists they would go to that school and Guanajuato is a huge university with many masters and many doctorate degrees so we were very fortunate that they went along with this he liked the program and he said however we're going to try it out so he sent one of his department heads we have the David Guerra David Guerra Tree because he was a scientist and head of the science department there when he died which was four years later he was killed by a car the department liked him so much that they planted the David Guerra Tree there anyway he came over and he stayed he loved it and we were off it was just a big bang and we started off sending our students so we started with four and when I left in 1998 we had 27 that's 27th year before I think 31 students just of Spanish exchange students going over that was more than all of the other people of Oregon put together in their exchange programs we were a thriving program throughout those years and it was sort of a 2 to 1 if we sent 30 they would send 15 if we sent 15 they would send 7 etc and it worked it was just beautiful and then I was very much involved in the city and we had all of our anniversaries and this last anniversary we had we had our mayor city council people judges doctor dentist rotary lions you know all of these people Chamber of Commerce were involved plus students and they sent their representatives here so we just finished our 50th year not only with exchange of university but also with sister city so we are sister cities and sister universities we are the only sister city that has lasted this long with going full force most people just send their mayors down or they have sister cities let's say for anniversaries for maybe a year or two years and then they die it's too much work it's a lot of work and so they just die off for lack of anybody wanting to do it you know so we were very happy that our university latched on to the program and they helped the students they allowed the students from wana wata to come in and enter all of their programs music art philosophy science psychology etc and it really was a unique program totally unique in every way shape or form and it's won international awards because of that so I'm very proud of the fact that the faculty went right along with the program and the department heads many of them went to wana wata during their sabbaticals and administrators did the same thing um it just it was all levels you know that participated in this and made it a success that it is so I was very happy with the outcome there were some problems early on with wana wata relationship I read letters from parents letters to the president about students that were in trouble down there oh gosh yes you know that's what I'm saying um I don't call it problems I call it problematical because we had the same things you know at Lewis and Clark I had the same thing at Boulder University if you don't have problems you're not growing you know just kids well one of the big problems they didn't want to come home I had to call the parents would call me up they really you know I want my kid home and they're blaming it on Mexico well yes it's wana wata's fault it's so enchanting that the kids want to stay there but they didn't want to come home and then we had another big problem that we had to tell them is that um if you're in wana wata they have long vacations they have from December the 18th to practically January the 18th and if you're in Mexico you're very nuts to come home during that month time so they would want to go to places like Guatemala well you know in the 80s you don't go to Guatemala and we told them that once you do that we can do nothing for you I mean not even the President of the United States you know that's your choice and if you're going to be dumb enough to do it you know and I gave them very intense orientation before they would leave and also drugs were just coming wana wata was being spared a lot of what's going on around it even now okay and so our kids were told that for example my son my eldest son he went down there and he stayed in guanajuato he married a girl from Leon and he was went to the university program there for two years and he saw a girl not one of our students but our students learned a lesson from this it was a strong lesson she was at a party and she wasn't even doing anything but the police came and other people were smoking potting etc they put them all in jail and this was one of the friends of my sons where she was from California so he went to visit her because it was her birthday and her other friends went to visit her if you're put in jail in Mexico it's changed in the last four or five years but at that time your family had to pay in guanajuato for your food you know it was a terrible situation so then going back to the beginning of SOC at the time after Dr. Stevenson left then we had Dr. Sowers and of course everyone said that was a huge change in every way and it they didn't say it was for the better or for the worse it was just a huge difference in personalities of running the college and everybody was very happy with Dr. Stevenson and with Dr. Sowers the university just grew as far as faculty was concerned we got more women in we tried to go for more diverse and we would have maybe a black professor in for maybe teachers or something or coming in but they didn't stay there wasn't that thriving black community here it doesn't what they weren't happy they just didn't feel that comfort zone and they went on to other places but we had in our department we added German and Russian and we were very happy to do that when I came I remember my office first office I had was in Central and then I moved over to the hospital the old hospital where Stevenson Union stands now and that was really an experience because it was kind of spooky at night the stairs creaked and the doors creaked all of them you know shut them and you'd go to work at night and it was kind of an exciting experience and we had them and they always said it was haunted all sorts of stories about it et cetera our German to show you the provincial and I don't use this as any many people would say that sort of a put down but it was the faculty was very close as I said it was sort of like family we all ate together during lunch our Stevenson Union did not exist and we didn't have a regular lunch place but we all ate in the Brit ballroom we called it the Brit you know and there was a huge auditorium above you know in the Brit we called it a ballroom where we had dances and we were very close it was nice to be able to talk to people and PE and to talk over the games and talk to people in science and art it was a family and it was a lovely experience I truly love those beginning we call them the golden years you know the old faculty because we had a wonderful relationship with each other and then when they tore down the hospital and built the Stevenson Union it just changed that was a radical change because then they started having lounge rooms which they didn't have room before you know in the various buildings and the faculty went there to eat their lunch or the Mexican restaurants started across the street they started going other places and we never saw each other except at the big faculty meetings at the beginning and at the end we'd have some other departmental meetings or you know where we all get together but it wasn't the same thing there wasn't this camaraderie and another way to show this lovely type of feeling that we had with each other our German teacher had a goat a small goat and she was pregnant and she would bring the goat and put her underneath her desk up in the old hospital here on the campus and because she was afraid that she'd have her baby she was pregnant and then when the baby she brought the baby and put it in a box and etc and took care of it that just doesn't go now there would be 100 laws against it and it just wouldn't be but that was the type of SOC that we had and I haven't even gotten to SOSC so I'm sorry I guess I talked too much about a particular thing it was a lot of fun and then not only did the faculty change as far as not having this wonderful opportunity to eat with each other and share I'm telling the entire faculty of course we had wonderful departmental meetings but the staff it was good we had sort of a good bad situation there Dr. Cox came after Dr. Sowers and he changed the idea of instead of just introducing when the faculty came in September that the staff would come and all the new staff would be introduced along with the new faculty and that was even though we lost the comradery of the other that was a plus for everyone we truly had the opportunity to talk and to mingle and to welcome the staff as well as the new professors which I thought was a big step I don't know if it was forward it just was nice we really liked it because we felt sort of not as close as we were before but at least it gave that feeling that we are a close university because I'm sure big universities just don't have that I taught in Boulder University you know and I was there as an instructor two years and they didn't have any of that so I loved the feeling that SOC and SOSC had as concerns the faculty and the staff it was something that you just don't find in bigger universities and thank heaven for the the presidents that we had that would allow the vision to see this and that also had the vision to understand the sister city sister university concept that they all, every one of them truly imbibed into the fullest the they would even have some of the Guanajuato people for an entire year in their homes and really welcomed them and it was a wonderful experience I started directing the international plays then and that changed my life again not only the Guanajuato experience but directing the international students was just absolutely a learning experience to the nth degree not in the duties that I was supposed to do but it was volunteer and out of the regular academic situation and I learned so much from those people we had all of those countries and I had an opportunity to direct them and at that time the international show was very classical I loved that the students did all of the old fashion the traditional dances and songs and if they didn't know them I taught them because I did a folk dancing of all of these different things and you lot of songs from different regions and the personalities were just fabulous we'd have practices at 7 o'clock in the morning till 11 o'clock at night we'd practice up in the brick ballroom and then we changed it was a constant changing but the students had for example, you have the Japanese students you tell them to be there at 7 o'clock let's say in the evening to practice they'd come at 6 o'clock and they'd be all ready to go and they'd know what was going to do and you would just help them with staging and change a few things and etc and the Mexicans they'd come at 7 o'clock they'd come at 8 o'clock it just happened every year I tried to up the time on them but it was a wonderful thing to when the Arab students came that changed a lot there were a lot of things going on as you know in the 80's etc with the whole Arab situation it helped our professors to understand a lot of what was going on in the world I think that our Guanajuato program helped with the diversity and learning more about the Mexican culture and these very sophisticated Mexican people that came where we have our Shakespeare they have the Cervantes it's the most what should I say advanced city in all of Mexico to have all of the your ballet and opera the festival from all over the world they get the Bolshev Ballet Yorkville Harmonic in there for the Cervantes Festival they have the Shakespeare from London incredible what they had they would come and bring a lot of that here and we would be privy to that or we would go to Guanajuato but when the Arabs started coming in to finish that idea so that helped our faculty a lot to become interested in this diverse culture and then when the Middle East people started coming in that was another change for our faculty it was very important it was very good for the faculty in that they were able to discuss from a student's point of view these were passionate Arab from Yemen and Jordan and Arabia and just everywhere and even they amongst themselves had some conflict we could see that the faculty could see that but they did stick together here but it was interesting to talk to them and to educate the faculty of what was going on in that part of the world we needed that we needed Guanajuato it just helped the whole community to enter more into that what they talk about many times ashram people can talk the talk they don't have the opportunity to walk the walk it isn't that they don't want to they just don't have the opportunity and with these people coming in and talking to us and sharing and lifting the awareness and the consciousness was very important I think at that time so directing the students I learned a lot I was there directing when the Hawaiians for example remember when Hawaii wanted back away from being part of the states etc. I was privy to all of that and the students and what was going on in their country so we learned a lot and I remember that the Hawaiians wanted to put some of their politics and do something with that and incorporate and I said no we don't have religion and we don't have politics in this show and they were very adamant about it and so I had to take them aside and talk to them because they felt that Ashland just didn't know anything they were going to tell Ashland what was all about there were a lot of activists in that particular year so what we saw from the students coming in from the different countries was what was happening in their country and the reason I can say this is because I was involved in all of that aside from my academic job I've gotten into telling you about how the academics change with the different rectors and the paths that they took so I'm sorry I didn't get into SOSC or SOU and what happened and what we did and how we did it and how we had our lovely talks about it the pros and the cons of this whole thing so it was a growth process for the faculty especially those of us that had been there at the SOC, SOSC SOU time we grew along with all the things that were happening and I can safely say that the faculty was inspired and educated and made more aware of this because of the international students and all of this taking place and I I just truly appreciated the vision of all of our presidents of the university that came in that latched on to the sister city, you could see the worth of it and tried to help always the international students all of them went overboard to participate and also to see what was happened with the Klamath, you know, the Native American the Hispanics the faculty truly of course I was younger at SOU and I couldn't see all of that there and of course Denver and Boulder are just a melting pot so they had they could walk the walk all the time you know and we were constantly here in a learning period, you understand I really admire the faculty for doing that for having fun and learning and going through all the pain also and the pain and the pleasure of being part of a small college and all that that means especially as we're trying to enter into a more diverse community. Can you tell me a little bit more about the old hospital? It looked like an old hospital it looked just like it was wooden and it was creaky and it was you know those old it's just like you see in the movies it just looked like a big wooden house a huge big wooden house and but the stairs were beautiful you know just old old old wood it was lovely inside but there was a basement and there I think there were two big floors but there was a third kind of warehouse floor and basement was more for machines I guess and we they cleared all that out but we could see some machines downstairs and the it was wonderful because you know where you have special rooms for patients those are smaller rooms that was our offices it would just work just perfectly and then they would open two or three of the just like you have big hospital rooms where people don't have a lot of money and maybe 10 people that was perfect for a classroom so they really didn't have to do too much renovation you know yes yes uh huh so it it just it served a lot of purposes but it was getting dangerous you know it one of the steps just caved in one of the time that I was going up the steps you know it it wasn't safe it was a fire hazard to the nth degree you know so that's according to our standards today you know according to anything was a fire hazard according to our standards today but it was a lot of fun I wanted to ask and we don't really have any time left but it's about Betty Lou Dunlop can you talk about Betty Lou um well she um you know um there were there were other women professors and instructors after her in the PE department but she stood out because Betty Lou was in education education I know but in education but she had a lot of friends in the PE because we had women PE instructors okay what yes uh huh and um she stood out I think all the rest of the women faculty she had an aura about her that was um getting and have a lot of fun but there was always this thing that of her own person of her own persona that most people don't achieve she could get in and have a lot of fun and yet she could be command a lot of respect the men respected her the women respected her and um she was called upon to uh even amongst a lot of the men at that time to lead whatever they're doing you know I remember that there was a thing about joining the union you know and things like that she was one of the um she was a type that you know would just kind of lead but not in an activist she could get things done without being an activist you know what I mean and um she just commanded that respect she spoke slowly and she said what she meant she didn't go overboard and just rattle on and on and on did she advocate for the union did she advocate for what for the union I don't remember what she did no I don't think she did but she calmed she calmed a lot of spirits down you know and I had a role in that too and um I remember the order of the purple girdle did you go to any of those well you know that was the year that they disbanded it what year was that that was 19 the year that I came I think in the records through 1969 1969? well then they did it on their own you know because when Dr. Sowers came the the faculty women they did they just when Dr. Sowers came he he wanted the faculty to be more academic not so he never said that in so many words but there was something about him that demanded that he was an Ivy League person Stevenson was not and you know enough said you know you the faculty just catered to that particular type of personality and of course that would not work with Dr. Sowers or Mrs. Sowers personality I don't mean to be negative about that because it wasn't negative it just happened and so these other things were taking place but certainly not out in the open and it was sort of like you know by that time it wasn't needed no it wasn't needed and you know when I came we had all of the new faculty and the next year also new faculty was coming by the droves which was very odd for SOC and so all of these wives of the faculty people and the faculty had different ideas it was a whole new generation just like I don't fit in now to a lot of things you know that we even my generation we even disliked when we used to come here to the gym and register we loved that we'd get all of our students coming and we yell over and let's say to the art department hey you know I have a student here that's an art major but Spanish minor come on over and let's talk about that it was so wonderful to be able to in that day you know just go and help each other out and help the student out and the student really felt that they were getting attention because you could just say okay you're in psychology in Spanish this is going to work out beautiful you know what I would say that that ended about oh we had about eight years of that with Dr. Sowers yeah probably the end of Sowers you know going towards the end because we didn't want it to end you know I remember coming back with our bus from bus from Guanajuato and we were a little bit late and so we parked the bus right here in front of the the gym and all the kids came out with some braddles and they registered you know with all their suntans and you know and etc so then when we had to change and do the computer thing you know it just changed and the people never really got to see now they go to see a counselor they never really see the head of their department you know to talk about them and etc and we fought against that but you can't fight against okay and and you can tell when you're not part of this the whole thing and then when they started having I hated the fact that people in my department well we had to have office hours and I'm a person people person to the nth degree and I loved having those hours with my students you know but a couple of other people didn't and they went to the computer and you know they'd have that was their thing you know etc so we're all fogies now you know but I still have a person-to-person relationship I like to look someone in the eye you know and etc hey Lou Dunlop and Ben Bennett United Foundation Trust do you remember those words the United Foundation Trust do you remember it more like a group of social women or a group of- no I remember no the garter was definitely social the women got together and both of them were leaders these are powerful women I just thoroughly respected them and I just loved them to pieces