 Convoke national dialogue, southern governors tell President Bahari, and we know where kidnappers are. We're only being careful, says Minister of Information and Culture, Lai Mohamed. This is cross-politics, and I am Mary Anna Cohn. Governors of the 17 southern states in Nigeria have demanded President Mohamed Bahari address the country on the mounting security challenges. The group, in a 12-point resolution, urged Bahari to convoke a national dialogue as a matter of urgency and restructuring of the country, saying the state police was now a necessity. Senators from the same region expressed their support for the governors. When will the President listen? When will he act? Well, joining us out of this conversation is Dr. Chidi Lloyd, he's a former leader of the River State House of Assembly, and Ayodhili Adewali. He's a public commentator. Thank you very much for joining us, gentlemen. Thank you for having me. All right, great, great, great. I'm going to start with you, Mr. Ayodhili. Let's talk about the raising, open-grazing ban. The governors were very, very, they put it succinctly that they were against it, they were not going to allow it, and they put their foot down, and they, I mean, I've never really seen governors across board agree on something that's as important as this. But of course, these are just governors in the southern states agreeing to this. Does this not mean that they may be against the federal government and maybe the states who are asking that the states in the south be open to the issue of open grazing? No, they're not against the federal government. They're only going ahead to activate the most important portion of the Nigerian Constitution, which provides that security is the first business of any government, which also implies that any state governor or government, their first business, their first line business is to provide adequate security for lives and property. And that is what they've simply done. And if they have followed this scenario for some time, you would have noted that the northern governor, especially as championed by the governor of Khamisei, have advocated that ranching be the solution, the solution to this plan that we're facing in Nigeria. Interesting. Apart from the issue of open grazing, I mean, a friend of mine posted a video today of him literally stuck in the middle of a street in Abuja because the cows had to walk past. And it took him more than 10 minutes to get the cows to cross, which is something that you would not see in the middle of a city. You might see it if you're traveling out of state, but not necessarily in the middle of a city. What will this do for us? Well, it's quite unfortunate that we still find ourselves in such a medivial time that government is taking action and it beholds on the security agencies to carry out this instruction by the government of Nigeria, the government of various states. And for the people to also be very hopeful to inform security agencies where ever or whenever short incident or fall. All right. And we now have Mr. Dr. Chidi-Loyd joining us. OK, well, Dr. Chidi-Loyd is not with us. So I'm just going to continue with you daily. Let's go on to other things that were mentioned or were on the agenda of that conversation with the 17 state governors. Now, they're also talking about restructuring. Every time we, you know, revisit the issue of restructuring, I always like to ask what exactly, you know, people are asking for because, you know, we say restructuring and sometimes it means different things to different people, even though it has a universal meaning. But in Nigeria, especially when it's close to relations time, can you hear me? Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you. I'm telling you. Great. So I'm saying that restructuring means different things to different people. And I always wonder why we only bandy the word restructuring around when it's time for elections. But now it seems to be back in the on the lips of our governors. How do you think that restructuring is going to help us deal with the level of insecurity that we're facing as we speak? Because, of course, we're looking for interim results and not results futuristic. Yes, of course, we're looking at the future. But what are we doing in the interim? Can it help us? Well, it's just, it's just like saying six and a half dozen. It means the same. People have come in the past to say that they've come to serve in national conference. I remember during the lifetime of Chief Antony Nihori, or blessed memories and Dr. Beto and some pity when they batted the national conference organization, which was meant to conduct a cultural international conference, which was indeed conduct. I was a mobilization and liaison officer of Toronto. I was the first administrative secretary of Toronto, and I worked directly with Chief Nihori and Dr. Becker and some pity. So what is showing power? The deputy chair of Toronto and so many nationalists in this country, many of them were founding fathers of this country, professional groupings, including the president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, President Nihori. At the point, I founded a political conference, especially during the June 12th episode. I remember I was the one that sat in on the chair, and the issue of having a people's constitution was put on the table. Nigeria, as it is today, only have a military decree that metamorphosed into a constitution. And that is the having of our problems in Nigeria. And if people have decided to use a terminology called restructuring, it is not different from convoking a sovereign national consent. The basic thing is, people come together to agree on the way they are going to be governed, on the way the structure of the country, physical and other forms of structure of the country will be. And the question of gender will be there, the question of resource control, the question of human rights and neutral rights and so many rights will be put on the table. Basically, it's just for us to agree on the running and sharing of resources and appropriation. I think they want to be appropriating resources in the country the way we all agree to. Let me go to Dr. Chidi-La who just joined us. We are talking about restructuring here and we're talking about a ban on open grazing. We're talking about convoking a national conference. How do we even get all of these things to fly immediately? Let's not forget, we've had many national confabs. We've had, just as Mr, the last speaker has just said, we've had one too many of these things. But the truth is, are we ready to agree on all of these things? Because I always make mention of the fact that there are always no-go areas. And I wonder if we really want to put an end to the sufferings and, you know, Jettison, the 1999 Constitution, why are we still mapping out no-go areas when we know that no-go areas are also, you know, red flags that are causing problems for us? Well, there's this saying that there is no, there's nothing like a time whose dream has come or something. Now, the meeting of the certain governors to me is rehabilitated. When the governor of Benway State started crying about what is going on, you know, it is like the proverbial foul of Kathoda says it doesn't concern him when the son of a king dies. But eventually, when it was time for the funeral, the goat was the first animal that was killed. So the certain governor's meeting is rather to me, rather related, because our people are being killed, are being maimed by a group of persons who must create as headsmen. Now, what my difficulty is, is why the government of the day at the center finds it difficult to declare these persons terrorist groups. But it did not hesitate to declare the IPOB that we are not wielding guns and machetes. They did not hesitate. They have no difficulty in telling them a terrorist group. So that is a kind of federation we run. These people are emboldened on a daily basis. And the governors have met because they realize that this is the cross of the matter. And they are saying that the full and the headsmen will no longer be the traditional full and the headsmen that we know. There are now persons who carry with impunity AK 47 and all kinds of assorted rifles. Then it shows that we are not nobody is safe in this country. So the governor, the good duty of a government first is to protect life, life and property. And that's exactly what the southern governors have risen up to do. But the governors of the West had earlier done so. One day when they confessed and formed what the Christian amotecu. So I don't think that convocation of any dialogue now is necessary. All that we need to continue to exist as a country is embedded in the in the constitutional conference that was the conference that was called my president good luck Jonathan. All that should be done is to open that book. Whatever the recommendation that was made. Well, you know that but but you know that the members the members of the very sorry, I'm sorry, Mr Chidi, the members of the political party of Mr President and his followers were not part of that particular conference or comfab. And that's why that particular paper is gathering dust somewhere even dumped in the dustbin. So again, I'm going back to I'm circling back to my I don't agree with you hold on hold on. I don't I'm going to let you speak. I'm circling back to my question. There seems to be a problem of agreement when it comes to having these kind of comfabs. It's it's what I want versus what you want. The APC I remember was not part of that comfab that good president good luck Jonathan put together. And I remember that right after that, the APC had a committee on restructuring even that whatever that they came up with from that restructuring committee is also gathering dust somewhere. That's what is exactly what I was trying to tell you that the comfab that president good luck Jonathan convoked was not done according to political party leanings. You had persons from all endeavors, labor, the academia, the clergy, traditional rulers. It was not a political party team. These were persons represented this from a very, very represented this from more and so on. So it was not done out of party and this national is this patriotic Nigerians met in Abuja at the expense of our taxpayers money and came up with that document. All that should happen is that this government should look into the document. And of course, there are certain aspects of the of the of the document that they agree with. For example, said police and all that. So there must be something. It cannot just be a document. Every administration that comes that has his own people. OK, let me go back to a fact. Every administration that comes, what time do we have to start solving the problem? What are the way out to start addressing the issues? OK, so the good luck Jonathan confer was not a PDP confirmed. It was a confirmed made up of eminent Nigerians, the military, the academia, clergy named them. So it will not be it will not be proper to refer to it as a PDP confirmed. So when when the APC now eventually calls calls his own comfort, then another political party that may win the election tomorrow will say no, that was a I don't think at any point I did. I don't think at any point I do not think that at any point I referred to it as an as a PDP confirmed. I'm just saying that the APC at the time pulled out of that comfort. But let me go back to a no, no, no, no, you are not the one talking. I am the one speaking. I mean, what you said was that the APC says they have party members were not involved. So we must move on as a nation and grow beyond these petty sentiments. We have a problem these countries at war. OK, I'm going to come back to you, Dr Lloyd. I'm going to come back to you. I will come back to you. Let me go back to our first guest and talk about some other things. Let's talk about the fact that the presidency has refused or rather the president has refused to speak to us or has not necessarily felt the need to speak to Nigerians on this issue of insecurity. And this is one of the things that the governors, the southern governors address. They said that the president has to urgently address the frightening state of insecurity in the country. So I ask you, sir, why do you think that it's taking the president so long to address us, the people he came to over and over again four times to ask us for our votes? Why is it so difficult for the president to address us? Is it that it's not important? It's unnecessary? Or maybe the people who speak on behalf of the president are doing a great job? Well, I cannot speak for the president. I can only advise the president and the presidency. It is important that the president speak to the nation. It is important that the president engage the nation and its national. On this statement, very important issue, because it's affecting the economy, because affected the security, it's affecting the social well-being of the people. The president speaking to the people will receive confidence. And of course, gravitate people's minds and cut out a lot of fake news that will be heard all around. So I joined the voice of the southern government and every meaningful Nigerian to appeal to the president and the presidency that we need, they need to talk to Nigerians and the world. Okay. I want to talk more about the response of the presidency and the government, especially the federal government, because you see, even if we want to talk about states, states are doing what they can, but the book always stops at the table of the presidency because you know how our security forces are run, they run from the center. Now let's take, for example, the Southeast States. Yesterday I spoke with some Haneze members and Haneze has said to the federal government that they do not agree with the idea of shoot at sight in the southeast, yet bandits are running amok in some parts of the country and there is no shoot at sight for them. There are people who have also said that, you know, the president is using, the presidency is using a double standard methodology in dealing with this issue and that's why it seems to be increasing every other day. Do you, do you agree with that or do you think that the case is different? Well, I do not believe on the shoot at sight, I do not believe on the shoot at sight. It doesn't apply to the elappes, but the law does not provide for that. But the law also provides that at a situation where security operations are confronted with people of firepower and they cannot surmount the aggressor then they are liberty to use your firearm in order to protect life for that then we cannot question the law but it does not mean that you should shoot an unarmed person or someone who you have an equal firepower or superior firepower to subdue. You must remember that if you can get them alive then you can extract information from them in order to curb these these problems and get to the root of the matter. So it is very important that whatever we do we should walk away the confines of the rule of law. Could we have avoided how many people the deaths and the sacking of you know communities in the southwest I mean because you started with you know the states in the southwest could we have avoided all of these killings I mean the bloodshed has been in their numbers spreading not just you know in the north it spread all the way to the southwest and even to the south south it took very long for the presidency to even agree to the fact that these things were happening and now we also have you know them being called gunmen some of them being called bandits even though many have said that these people are terrorists and the kidnappings have also increased we've seen what's been happening in kaduna states we've also heard what happened in abia I mean the cases just continue you know to increase why did we have to wait for this long for anything to be done in the first instance I think the security chief will have to answer to that and I think it's time of inquiry to be put in place to investigate why it took so long in order to tackle all of these problems remember that every security agent have their their their code of conduct and they have their line of operations and doings but I think it is also a failure of gathering intelligence uh since our intelligence gathering is very weak and the deployment of technology is also extremely extremely abysmal because many of those things would have been tackled giving security uh in terms of surveillance and of course gathering of of reports and if these reports are gathered then uh if it's important we analytic very very quickly in order to understand the kind of approach they will deploy in order to arrest all of these uh uh social unrest so that's why I said there should be a final inquiry to investigate this matter from inception to date okay I'm coming back to you Dr Lloyd let's talk about the the former NHIS boss was cost on camera some days I think yesterday or early today saying that if governors are banning open grazing in the south then they have to make sure that they give land to these herders to start some alternative um and modern livestock management system uh where do you stand on this are we supposed to give land to them is it supposed to be a must or should I mean this is a business of sorts um what do you think the this means well it is uh uh what the the former executive secretary of what he said uh is echoing uh the minds of his people ordinarily after that statement that fellow ought to have been arrested it means that he's in touch with the bandits for crying out loud this gentleman and Catherine I think is a business nobody has asked any governor to give land to farmers nobody has said government should give land to importers to build their warehouses but you see that is the level we have come in this country some persons speak as though they own the country that is why he can afford to say that that point governors who are chief security officers of their state are saying that no open grazing whoever is involved in this business should do it as a business that it is some fellow is saying that land land must be given so you see it and nobody is talking to us I heard you when you were saying the president should talk to us I'm not I am one person who doesn't expect the president to talk to us don't need to call the president to speak to us all we will do in this country now for me is to continue to pray for the tenure to wind up that is the only thing since we cannot at the expense of what because I mean so so I'm sorry doctor we keep praying while people are dying people are being uh people are being killed when they go to their farmlands we did a report on what we do going women are being killed in their farmlands as they go so right now they can't even go to the country we are my sister I'm as frustrated as any other person there's nothing else we will do under the law we are law abiding people in this country there are those who are area race there are those who are more who are more superior than the others so for those of us who are inferior quote and unquote we will continue to pray there is nothing that one god cannot solve does not exist I do not even understand what you mean by those of us who are inferior but unfortunately we were out of time I want to thank you gentlemen for being part of this conversation we appreciate because I'm allowed if I'm allowed all right quickly just quickly we need to go I would only advise that like some states are done they have a good life and then those are great lines are there for for people that want to take advantage of the agricultural activity to meet the government to get this land and the fitters to them to carry out the the agricultural activity and such state is major state there are a lot of a good land in Lagos a businessman can approach the Ministry of Agriculture you bring up your your your your government some land is severe to you you pay for rental of those lands and you do your business so other states also can borrow from that either you like it or not many of these agricultural activities are beneficial to every one of us at nine years it's just that we need to I mean I mean activate the law very well security agencies need to be more proactive and diligent to I mean to their work and the government also must provide opportunities for for all and some of you I remember to come out and they create some some some hubs industrial hubs we have some in Yaba we have in Kenyan and what have you they created a Greek settlements and all of this Michael also did the same thing and which I really did the same thing if you remember the the the the the the the palm the palm palm a project that we did and all of these things so government should bring up solutions to tackle all of the problems that we have and see if government have right overland short land must be brought to to bear now and there are whoever that wants short land to be given and of course they have to pay for it you know in a rental system so that the domestic people land on behalf of every every Nigerian well thank you very much gentlemen for being part of this conversation we appreciate it we do not have time anymore I'm sorry we do not have time we do not have time I'm sorry doctor we have to go we have to go we have to go I'm so sorry well thank you so much for being part of the conversation but time is not on our side well we'll take a short breakdown when we return line Mohammed says the location of some abductors is known to them but of course they're trying as much as possible to be careful thank you we'll be right back