 Tonight, we're talking about youth addiction to mobile phones, and with me in the studio is Zakia Rashid, a counseling psychologist, and Lin Zinyawaira, a teenager who is going to be given as experience as far as the addiction to mobile phones is concerned. You can be part of this conversation by tweeting and sharing your views and comments on our social media platforms, that is on Y254Channel, hashtag Y254News on Twitter, and also Y254Channel on Facebook. Cell phone addiction is a modern phenomenon and has put many traditional assumptions to the test. In the past, addiction meant something different to parents, where parents were more worried about their kids being addicted to cocaine, heroin, and nicotine. Today, the addiction landscape has shifted. Teens hooked to their smartphones for seven hours on average each day. Cell phones addiction goes well beyond texting and talking. It includes apps, games, and in particular social media. For teens, cell phones have become a way to comment and criticize, approve and admire. They're not always communicating with friends. Often they are commenting on the activities, checking for likes and responses to their own posts. The clinical community defines cell phone addiction as a behavioral disorder, which means obsessive views that affect everyday functioning. Like any addiction, once triggered, it can be quite difficult to stop. These are biological components to this behavior. The brain reacts to the cell phone, as if it were a drug. Studies have shown that both the phone ringing and the alert of a new text cause a brain to release dopamine. So that is basically some of the effects that the mobile phone or that is how far addiction has really become. It has become an issue of concern in the society that is in Kenya and even globally. But tonight we seek to understand how far can you stay without checking your phone? Or how many times in a day do you check your phone? And starting this discussion tonight, I would like to start with my first question directing it to Lindsay, as a young person probably. How many times do you check your phone? And for those times that you're checking your phone, what would you be doing? To start with, I cannot do without my phone. So sometimes I usually check on nothing, but I just have that habit that I need to have my phone. So sometimes I even have this behavior. When you're talking to me, I'm looking at my phone. But when you ask me, what are you looking at? I can't answer. Probably I'm looking for new notifications because I'm in social media sites. I'm looking whether my tweets have been retweeted or whether my Instagram pictures have been liked or whether there's something trendy so that I can actually post it or be the first one to retweet it. So, Zakia, you might be a counselling psychologist, but you're also a person with a smartphone. This is not something that is only affecting the teenagers as much as the teenagers are the higher percentage of people who are getting addicted to their phones. Adults to these days, most of the times you find them who are on their phones, especially people driving. You can find someone they are driving. And maybe when they're waiting for the green light to say go, people will go to check on their phones. How many times in a day do you check your phone? OK, thank you, Patricia. And I'm laughing because I found it a little bit. It's a tough question. I can't, I may not really be able to count the numbers, you know, in terms of how many times I check my phone. But I can say that I'm very much sure that I may not exceed the limits why I say I'm addicted to my phone. Personally, I can leave my phone home, go to work or go to town or go to wherever, and I'll not crave for my phone simply because I left it in the house or even rethink of going back to go and get my phone. I'll just say, I forgot it, so be it. Let me move on. I'll get in the evening and check what called, wasn't called and life goes OK, we are living in an era whereby parents, when your little baby cries, you just give them your phone. You put on a game, put on a cartoon for them and give them that phone. Parents are more secure these days to have their children in the house hooked in their iPads, the phones and everything, then have their kids playing outside. So probably what would you say is at the dangers that parents are giving or exposing their kids to at such an early age? First of all, I can say it is really sad that such situations, scenarios are happening because we think that sometimes I think we do the parents do this in, you know, unintentionally because sometimes they are also busy. They are also caught up in their own issues and they don't stop to think that when I throw this phone at the child to start looking at it or whatever, I am causing damage to this child. First of all, health wise, it means that these phones have lots of, you know, what we say, things that are not OK, health wise. They are using things like radio shows that all those things are happening in the phone because these things you are told they are not even good when you sleep around them because they emit certain let's say gases or are usually not good for the health. So when we leave the children with these things already from day one, we are it's health hazard to the children. We are causing them damage, health wise, and we are not so sure what is happening. And this is not some of the things that are happening. Like, you know, there and then this is things that are happening systematically. So with the time we may realize this child may not be feeling well. Maybe the ears are not hearing well. Maybe somewhere there may be this eye damage, ear damage. And yet we may not be able to trace back and say this is the phone until maybe an expert gets to tell us that this has happened because of the phone. So sometimes we forget that this is a thing that may happen. We just rethink think of it's now here and now I use this as a toy. That is not a toy. A phone or any other mobile device is not a toy. OK. So Lindsay, for you, when at what age did your parents get you a phone? I got my phone when I was in class seven when that was when I was 13 years around. And do you have do you have siblings? Do you have younger siblings? Yes, I do have younger siblings. And do they have do they own mobile? Yes, they have mobile phones. Actually, a case scenario is when my young brother wanted a phone and my dad didn't really was wondering, where do you need a phone? You're still in primary school. You're still learning. Actually, you just hear once in a while on Saturdays and he had to cry for that phone. And he had to get it because his reasoning was every person has it. How am I supposed to get it exactly? And just as one thing I know is we are times have changed. We also learning so much from technology myself. I'm the kind of woman who will give my daughter the phone because there's so much they're learning rather than playing with kids outside. But sometimes don't you think that it's damage? For example, if I asked you, what does your brother do on the phone? Like what type of content do they assess on the phone? And how many times probably how many hours do they spend on that phone after school? To be honest, we don't check because there's a time he actually the reason why my parents bought him a phone, other than the fact that his friends have a phone, it's because he had once logged in using my mom's phone on Instagram. Then my mom saw some messages on Instagram and he was like, I have to get you a phone because I don't want to be receiving such content on my phone. Zakir, having to hear that, this parent was so concerned. But she saw some type of messages that she was like, I don't think these messages are supposed to be channeled through my phone and deciding that I'm going to get my son his own phone. As she helped or is she just like creating an avenue whereby now these messages can keep on coming. This kid can keep on assessing such content over the phone. It is really again very sad because it's like you're trying to, you know, dig up one hole and covering the other. So it is not a helping situation because it means simply means that in that situation, it means that it is OK for that child to get that information. So long as the mother does not see it, it does not come through me. It is OK. Whatever he takes, it is OK. But the question is, is that really OK? Because what if that content is not so good for that child? Because depending on what the mother saw, it could be detrimental information. But is it OK if the child gets to see so long as that is his or her phone? That is the question. So I think these are misplaced priorities. We tend to think that by making, giving them their phones, we are actually settling the dispute, making the situation better. But you are making the situation even worse because I'd rather this child use my phone, I get to see the information that's channeled through my phone and get to deal with it. How I talk to my child, how I make them understand that maybe this content is not for them or there's a time for this content than hide that information by making sure that it does not pass through me. OK. I really like what you've said. But now, do you think at what age, probably, would we say these kids should be now allowed? I know we are saying that technology is there are a lot of innovations, but are we going to let these innovations cost damage to our kids, to our sisters, to our younger brothers? The answer, Patricia, is no. We should not let these technology damage our children, our sisters, our brothers and our friends. The thing is we cannot say that there is a specific age set for a child to get a phone, but as parents, as the people concerned, as the significant others, there are some questions we need to ask ourselves. For example, a seven year old, what are they supposed to get a phone for? Is it because they're accessing school material? And if it's a school material, what kind of school material is that? That they're not getting from school. It has to come from the phone. Second, is it communication? Because if it's communication, where is this child for this person to be able to communicate with? Because as a parent and as a seven year old, it means either there's a man in the house, if I want general information, I have to call the man and say, I want to talk to my child. I don't have to call that child straight away. Then if it is another, you know, that kind of communication again, I do not have to communicate to the child directly, especially when I'm not around. Because some parents have argued that when I'm at work, when I'm doing this and that, I have to call my child get to know how they are doing. I can just be asking the nanny, but you brought that nanny there and you trust that nanny. That's why you brought that child to the house in the first place. So if you do not like the information she's giving you, why are you leaving that nanny with your child? OK. Yes. So in terms of addiction, Lindsey, would you say you're addicted to your phone? Would you say that you're addicted to your phone? Of course. For me, I'd say yes, I'm addicted, but it's a disorder. Yes, I'd really say that yes, I'm addicted because I cannot concentrate without my phone. Like you said, if I left my phone in the house, I would go back for it because I can't imagine a day without it. A case in scenario is when I was traveling and then my phone got stolen in Amatatu. It was 10 p.m. And I'm there calling my mom crying with the M-Pesa agents number. Hey, my phone has gotten lost and I can't come home. I mean, no, not even that. I'm standing at an M-Pesa shop and they're selling phones. My mom said, but you know, those phones are not legit. I was like, let me just buy it for tonight because it's not expensive. What did you say at the moment you're by your phone gets lost and you cannot you can't go home? This is it's 10 p.m. And you feel like these attachments that you have with your phone, you can't go home. Can't you call that addiction? Is that addiction? Maybe probably let's like here as a counseling psychologist to help us with that. Because she has said she cannot leave the house and probably learn that she has forgotten a phone and go about the day without going back and taking that phone. Is that not addiction? That is lazy. I'm sorry to say this. That is addiction, you know, addiction because again, we ask ourselves how do we assess to get to know that this is addiction and this hasn't reached the point where we call it addiction. It is first of all, you can't keep your hands off the phone, not even for three minutes or not even go up to five minutes. I can keep my hands off my phone for even a whole day and have no problem with that. But now if you cannot keep your hands off the phone for even five minutes or the phone has to be wherever you are seated, you see, people are eating and the phone is just there. You see, people are talking to someone and they have become a behavior in church. It's a big deal. You can imagine the phones while the pastor is up there, you can imagine. And then we also say that when you see an individual now you are going to bed and the phone has to be somewhere next, which is again is also a health hazard. Yeah, people sleep next to their phones and we've seen even in social media, there are some social media telling us how things are exploding, you know, around them, people have died. That is if at all it's true. But again, we say, yes, it's a health hazard to even our ears, to even our eyes, to even our brains. So we are actually feeding our brains with a lot of stuff about just hearing and, you know, getting the information. So that is addiction because again, we say, for how long can you stay without a phone? And we say, if you stay without a phone, do you get what you call withdrawal symptoms? That if I don't have a phone, I'm agitated, I have anxiety, I'm almost getting depressed. That is, yes, preoccupation with the phone. Most of the time you are preoccupied with a new phone in town, the new make, the digital one that already says there is something. OK. Linda shared with me something that was still working in. I hope you allow me to share when she said her phone is just not a five thousand shillings phone. And every other time she has this phone that costs her almost a fortune, she will still crave for another one, which costs more than that. What are you doing with all this? It's because of that craving for new money. You know, the idea or the thought is that when I get this one, it's so modernized, even the material, the content will be better. You know, I'll be getting good pictures. I'll be getting, you know, the information is very clear. The pictures are so good and all these things put together and make people, that is addiction. OK. We're going to take a very short break. And when we come back, we'll be talking about how phone addiction affects sleep patterns and health wise. And don't go far away. We have way lots of things to cover on this discussion. We'll be right back on my two five four news updates. Why two five four, imagine. That's what I'm talking about. Pro-exclusive entertainment. Oh, thank you for staying with us on why two five four news updates. And we're talking about youth addiction to mobile phones. You can be part of this conversation by sharing your views and comments on our social media platforms that is on Twitter at why two five four channel, hashtag why two five four news and on Facebook at why two five four channel. So we're going to look at I'll just go through some of her effects of mobile phone overuse. We have social comparison. We have health problems. We have anti social tendencies. We have we have psychological problems. And then we have night time for news. We realize that using mobile phones, some people don't sleep at all. So we have poor sleeping habits, depression and delinquency, self esteem and emotional well being. We have fun, fun time replaces sleep, content stimulates brain, depressed teenagers use social media more and screen light suppresses melatonin. When you tell a young person that being on the phone, most of the times it's going to affect the sleep patterns. They seem to argue with it because you've gotten used to this. It has become a habit. So you don't have struggle sleeping. You're used to the two hours at probably four hours you get to sleep. So, Zakia, what do you think now should be like? What do we tell to these young people? How do we convince them that this thing is so, so dangerous and you guys like need to fight other activities that are more productive to do to engage you? OK, thank you, Patricia. I think first of all, sensitization is very, very important in what we call now psychoeducation because telling somebody that this is not OK without any proof sometimes becomes so difficult because they are not in a position to see the effects. You know, the effects are not tangible. It's not something they can see and say, OK, I just didn't sleep yesterday or I spent a lot of time on phone today. I have, for example, a headache. But some of them even go through that. They can actually associate their headaches and all that with the issues with not sleeping because of their funds. But they still do not want to admit to the fact that they are not OK. So what we say that a lot of psychoeducation is very important. And in psychoeducation, we have to involve the medics to make them, you know, you know, make people understand that this is not just a short term kind of effect. It takes time or it happens after a very long time. And you may not be able to see it, you know, through the naked eye. It is something that is happening internally. Like now when you are talking about cancer, we are told some of cancers are because of radiation. Now this radiation, all these things are through the phones. So when you are sleeping and your phone is just next to your pillow or just under your pillow, what do you think is getting inside your body? So if you do not psychoeducate them in this manner to make them understand, then it's just to send their phone. But they ask you how, you know, how now and you cannot prove because you have nothing tangible evidence to tell them. So that is very important. Second, let's be able to assess their performance because most of the time the youth, especially, you know, the millennials, as we call them, we have to assess the pattern of their performance and that we are able to argue with them because some of them, in fact, majority, will not be able to perform well, for example, in schools or even at work. They will sleep or even oversleep because if somebody sleeps at three or four and they're supposed to work up at, for example, six, you'll find some of them are just dozing off in class. Some of them who are going to work will not even go to work around the time that is supposed to be there and they will not be giving so many excuses. In fact, when you go to an office and find people giving so many excuses, yesterday they had this excuse to go to work. They'll even kill people, even their relative, just to make it look like something really happened and even cause an accident where there wasn't. Just to prove that and did something happen. That's why I'm coming late. So when we see these people or these kind of excuses, then we are able to tell something is not right and we should be able to talk straight forward to these people and tell them something is not right with you, kindly go and get help. OK, so Lindsay, we've talked about how phone addiction affects someone's sleep. There are also cases whereby it can affect the position which you are as you use your mobile phone. Sometimes the spinal cord or the area around the neck can be affected. Having heard about all these things, what do you think probably as a young person, because now you represent the number of young people out there, what do you think can be done as a young person? What other activities do you think that youths can be encouraged to get into, to avoid being on the phone for a very long time? So first of all, I think more activities that entails people. It could be sporting activities because that will keep you busy off your phone and you need to get time, you need to get even time to actually touch your phone. That's one. It can also be these gatherings that happen and then you have talk sessions, those activities we have drama. You see, these are activities that are very strenuous and sometimes you don't even get time to even have a break and have your phone. Let's even talk about gym. Let's exercise, you know, you're exercising, you can't exercise with your phone. So some of these activities that will actually put you so much on it so that you can even get time to go and use your mobile phone. As was speaking earlier, you talked about social media. You talked about how when you're on your phone, you go through Instagram and all those things. If after this show, we were to take a picture and you posted it on your social media platforms, let's say Facebook or Instagram, and you didn't get like, how many likes would you get and feel like I now call it? First, my achievement is how many followers do I have? How many followers do you have on Instagram? For example, I have a new account and the new account that I opened actually last week. I'm only following 40 people. But my following is 2000, I guess. Oh, God, and you started last week? Yes. And when I started my Instagram account I said how many followers I have? OK, so actually, I'm very key. If I put a picture right now and in seconds, I don't see any like, then I remove it. But why? Because that is like you're going now. You're seeking validation out there. There you want. Yeah, you're seeking validation out there. Don't you think that this is something that you really need to work on? Not really. What I think is in social media, what do people want to see? For example, for you to have such a following and get your following very few, which doesn't really happen, then if I take a picture right now, holding this mic, do the kind of followers I have, do they want to see that really? OK, for example, if I place this picture probably on Twitter, I'd get so many likes because people will be motivated. Oh, OK, she was talking about this and this and this. OK, so Instagram people don't like people holding mics. No, that is what you're trying to say. They don't want to see your audience. You see, you see, Instagram is not really serious. You see, Instagram, you'd get more likes, for example, if you took a picture on the beach. OK, understand. But then don't you think we've had instances whereby young people have committed suicide because they posted a picture, someone did not like them. People commented so negatively about them and there was no one to see it because we've taken this thing to be a very normal thing. And people have done terrible, terrible things because of it. Don't you think this is something that should be addressed? Don't you think we need to have better ways on how to make people feel validated before you get to social media and seek for validation from there? To be honest, yes, at some point, because I can tell you, recently we had a case of a person on Twitter. Twitter is known for the mature people and the working class. But also we saw how people, actually, even celebrities, attacked a young guy calling himself an entertainer who is actually a brand. Yes, and the last comment that guy gave was, I don't think I deserve to be in this world. So from that, you can see that also social media comes with its own pressure and it needs to be very strong because this is someone whose image has been circulating. And this is someone who people have been retreating his image. And so he's even shy to even stand up and approach people because he's lost his credibility. Yes, OK, let me go through something here. In 2008, China became the first country to declare internet addiction among children as a clinical disorder, according to gaming companies and advised gaming companies to set a cap on how much time children can spend on their playing online. Twenty four million young people in China are estimated to be internet addicts as a result, the US government also started a program last year whereby people can go to be treated or it's a rehabilitation center from to help you now heal from from addiction. And also the Chinese government has four hundred centers. Do you think Kenya needs one of these centers? Do we need one? We don't need one. Patricia, we need many. OK. We need many. Why? Because we have to nip this problem, this problem in the bad. We don't have to wait until, you know, looking at our population and China's would say, yes, we are very few and maybe we need one center. But no, it's not one because looking at the towns that we have, the cities that we have, maybe we should say in each and every city, we should have a center so that people are able to access the center. People are able to get that kind of assistance or treatment as early as possible. Because this is what we say. Addiction is a brain disease. That is what people are forgetting. They just think a brain disease is only when I take alcohol. You know, you know, you cut or I do this. No, this is a brain disease. And once this problem gets into the brain, believe you me, getting out is a very big problem. Yes, it needs a lot of medical intervention. It needs a lot of counseling. This is psychological intervention for some people to be able to get out of it gradually because getting in wasn't that quick. Even getting out isn't that quick as well. We need this kind of assistance too. Yes, we need the centers, not one, but many, especially within the cities because this problem is growing within the cities. It hasn't reached, you know, out there very much, you know, the suburbs, but they're still coming up. We go to the village and we still already see people already catching up with the internet and all these things. And where this data, believe you me, a lot of things are happening. Yeah, it's true. So we get to say, yes, we need them. And as much as we have them again, this is not the only thing that we can do. We also need to start dealing with this problem from the household level. It doesn't have to get so clinical. We can start from the household by what, like, for example, Lyns, you were sharing. Can we encourage our children to do all these other activities instead of just trying to suit them with phones? Any time a child cries, you just throw at it because you want to go cook and this is the only consolation price you can give. Can we go with that child to the kitchen? As I cut onions, they are cutting tomatoes and doing this. Sit them on the working space there and let them take a blunt knife. Let them do something. So instead of just leaving them there in the living room because with a phone, they'll be very quiet. Then again, when you talk about these activities, how we encourage children or the youth or the youngsters to participate in these activities because even as you say, the youngsters or the youth, even the grown-ups, just as you said, they are also part of this. Some of them have really gotten so addicted. It is shocking. A whole grown-up seated there, you are talking, for example, Zavista has come to the house and you are there talking and the person is busy on the phone and you wonder, am I really needed here? Okay, yeah, that has become a very big problem. So, Lindsay, last year France banned use of mobile phones in primary schools and high and middle schools. As you wind up, what do you... If Kenya decided to have one of these centers in every county, what would you advise? What activities do you think people like you would be interested in so that we get people who have the mobile phone addiction? Probably, we would invest in sporting activities, let's say swimming, let's say things like hockey, some of these sporting activities that really strain you, such that even at night, you don't even have time to just go and sleep, you know? And also, you're able to interact with people because one thing that comes with the phone also is your sociability, it decreases. So now, if I find you interesting, then there's a reason to put my phone aside. Okay, so thank you very much, guys, for really finding time to talk about this. I think we'll have another day where we get deeper into social media and bullying and all these things because it's quite a very big topic. But what I can say is technology is good. I'll be not going to say that technology is not a good thing, it is a good thing that is happening to us, but the thing is, parents maybe have, confused, have limits to when your kids or when your teenage kids are at home, have them go out there and socialize and mingle with others even during events that are at home. So that is how we hand for you tonight on Y254 news updates. My name is Patricia Murioki. Do have yourselves a very good night.