 Good afternoon, everyone. Good morning, good evening, wherever you are. I'm going to get started right at the top of the hour because I want to not waste even one moment of the great two hours that we have ahead of us. Welcome to the first session of this year's joint AIC and spinach conference. Our session today is confronting our biases to transform conservation, which is sponsored by the Getty Conservation Institute. My name is Anisha Gupta, I use she her pronouns, and I'm the co-chair of the equity and inclusion committee. So I'll be moderating our session today. Behind the scenes we have co-moderator and committee member Rebecca Rushfield and AIC staff liaison Kate Lee. They'll be monitoring the chat and the Q&A. So we really hope for this to be an interactive session if you want to introduce yourself and where you're calling in from in the chat. Please add thoughts and comments to the chat as much as you like. But please put any questions that you have for our panelists in the Q&A feature, which you should see at the bottom of your Zoom screen. There's also live closed captioning, which you should also see as a menu option. And if you have any trouble with any of that, please do let us know in the chat. I'd like to start by acknowledging the land that I have the privilege to live and work on. I believe that a land acknowledgement is about understanding our personal relationship with the land we're on and how we got here. Both sides of my family originate in India. And on both sides, I am the first generation to be born on this territory, the unceded ancestral indigenous territory of the Lenny Lenape and Wingo hooking people of the Delaware watershed, who've stewarded these lands for centuries and continue to do so in these unceded territories now known as Philadelphia. So I ask you to join me in acknowledging the Lenny Lenape and Wingo hooking communities, their elders both past and present, as well as future generations. This panel today is about implicit bias biases. We all have that we aren't conscious that we're acting upon. So as I think about our relationship to the indigenous communities that have stewarded these lands for generations. And we often don't think about the indigenous communities as current and as future. So this acknowledgement demonstrates a commitment to beginning the process of working to dismantle the ongoing legacies of settler colonialism. So at this point, I'd like to introduce our three speakers. I can't tell you how excited the equity and inclusion committee is to have this opportunity for this conference to be virtual so we can have them all in a zoom room with all of you. So our speakers will each give a 15 minute presentation introducing us to some of the ideas that they're interested in discussing, and then we'll have lots of time for discussion and questions after that for about an hour or so. So again, please put questions that you have for the panelists in the Q&A feature that'll help us make sure that we see all of it. So at this point, our first speaker will be Dr. Portia Moore, whose department head and assistant professor of museum studies at the University of Florida. Our second speaker will be Seema Rao, deputy director and chief experience officer at the Akron Art Museum, and our final speaker will be Stephanie Johnson Cunningham, co-founder and director of Museum Hue. So in the chat in just a minute, Kate will put in a link to extended bios that you can you can follow to learn more. So without further ado, I'd like to turn it over to Dr. Moore for her presentation entitled transformation begins with you, you as a collective. Dr. Moore. Thank you so much. So I wanted to begin by saying, I'm super excited about our time together today because one of the things that I have started to shift in my own practice is making sure that when we are getting together to speak, that we actually are centering learning. And I really believe in the practice that Bell Hooks teaches us that real learning actually takes place in dialogue and in conversation. So I really love the fact that we're going to be, you know, each of us speaking very briefly, but then we will all come together to speak as one and to learn as one and as a community. So I really appreciate just the format of that. And I'm also super excited that AC has partnered with SPNHC. I think it's really awesome that you all have done that this year. So, as Anisha said, the title of my talk today is transformation begins with you, you as a collective. And I also want to begin by honoring and holding space. Just like Anisha, I want to acknowledge that I reside on the unseated territories that were stewarded and continue to be stewarded by the Seminole and Elatua First Nations groups. I also want to bring into the space my own ancestors who were brought to this country as enslaved Africans, and who are now known as the Gologici people of which I am a descendant. Again, I want to say special thanks to the AIC conference organizers and for this opportunity to speak and be in community. And I want to especially give thanks to my colleagues, Sima and Stephanie, who have always been a part of the collective laboring for racial equity access and inclusion for transformation in our field. And then, because I do want us to be in conversation, I would love for those of you who are participating and joining us today, if you could also help to make this conversation take place inside our space. So please tweet the conversation today. Hashtag AIC 2021. I've listed here all of our Twitter handles, mine is Portia Muse M. I'm sorry at Portia Muse M. Stephanie's is at Steph A. Cunning and Seamus is at Art Lust. So the first thing I wanted to sort of begin with sort of framing our conversation for today is understanding that I personally don't believe that we should strive to return to normal. But when we talk about transformation and transformation and change that we first have to come to understand that we have all just experienced and are some are continuing to experience a collective trauma event. And one of the things that critical race scholar Gloria Latsen Billings teaches us is that in in actuality, what we have all experienced is a kind of quadruple pandemic. So that simultaneously so that we have experienced not just the global health pandemic with the Coronavirus, but we have also experienced a racial pandemic. That we are currently experiencing an economic pandemic, as well as the climate pandemic. And for me is again it's really crucial for us to understand that when we talk about bias when we talk about transformation and change and our respective disciplines that the goal should not be to return to normal. The goal should be to make sure that we first of all honor ourselves, our communities and our collective that we have actually survived a global pandemic that we are here that we were able to take care of ourselves and our families in our community so just, you know, I want to maybe pause to reflect on the fact that that we have survived and that we should honor ourselves in the work that we've been able to accomplish in that time. So again when I think about transformation. I really had to ponder about this notion of what is transformation, and I kept returning back to the work of activists. And Gracely Boggs, and Gracely Boggs teaches us that you cannot change any society, unless you take responsibility for it, unless you see yourself as belonging to it and responsible for changing it. And I kept returning to Gracely Boggs, because we've had so many conversations over the past five plus years, but in particular, within the last year about the need for transformation and change in cultural in the cultural heritage sector. One of the things that I have noticed repeatedly is the ways in which we tend to other these conversations by making them sort of black white binaries, or we make them about people who are racist and those who are not racist. But I think at the end of the day, we really have to begin a deeper practice of self reflection that if we want to have any change in our respective disciplines. If you want to swap out that word society for discipline, then it really must be us taking a deep pool and personal account of ourselves and the ways in which we might be able to affect change from where we are. So when you look at the root word that definition of transformation, there are multiple definitions. But I would argue that there's actual real possibility for the ways in which we could achieve transformation our respective disciplines by doing looking at a close examination of these definitions. So when we look at this term transformation. One definition is a thorough or dramatic change in form or appearance. The second definition is a metamorphosis that takes place during the life cycle, but I would argue that the definition that actually provides the most possibility for us is the one that reads the induced or spontaneous change of one element into another by a nuclear process. And I feel like everything that we've experienced in the last year or a year and a half. Particularly when we look at all of the open letters in our, you know, in our field that have come from museum professionals, calling out instances of institutional racism, and all kinds of disparities that what we are actually seen is a kind of nuclear process. We're seeing not just a call for change, but a demand for change. And we're seeing some people try their best to respond to that some institutions try their best to respond to that. But I think also what we're seeing is a frustration because these conversations are actually not new. So what I would argue is that when we talk about the nuclear process in cultural heritage. Again, what we're talking about is de centering whiteness that we are really asking to challenge the standards of professionalization, and the ways in which we think that's these as kinds of best practices. I would argue, I would argue that we would also need to, again, commit to a daily practice of self reflexivity. And when we do that, we must be willing also to commit to increasing racial literacy. So then I would argue that transforming our field actually begins with you as individuals, and then we'll unpack them a little bit the ways in which you was actually a kind of collective. So self self reflexivity is the foundation for transformation and I would argue that self reflexivity allows for the following processes. So when we go deep inside and we think about again this notion of bias. So self reflexivity illuminates the artificiality of our thought or our thinking patterns. It leads to the discovery of new ways to do things. And it essentially forces us to have an application of that reflection to then move into action, because again one of the things I think that we continuously see is a kind of transformation in the ways in which this conversation about inclusion and access and racial equity has gone on for quite a long time. But what we're looking for now is actual transformation and change and that can only happen through action. So self reflexivity again allows for a continual check of your own knowledge. So you actually critically thinking about how it was that you're the knowledge that you have was accumulated. It asks you to think about and question the validity of that information, and then forces you to think about the ways in which that information, or again that learning or that training of those best practices, or perhaps riddled with bias. And finally, reflex reflexivity helps you to better inform your own practice, which again in turn helps to better the field or the collective. So one of the things that I would say that I would argue is, again, and having lots of these conversations, especially the last year and a half. One of the things that I personally have had that I've heard repeatedly time and time again is, where do we go, what are the resources, can someone tell us what to do, we can't hire, you know, a conservator of color or we can't hire a curator of color because we don't know where where those folks are located. These are false statements. And I would encourage everyone to look to the risen leaders. One of the things that I was super excited to see over the last summer was the statement that came out by this collective that was called the black demanded racial justice in art conservation. These are to me the risen leaders and I think that I want to point this out specifically because, again, I don't want there to be any, any additional excuses perhaps about what are we going to do next, or what should we do. So I want to, I want to be very intentional in reading out the names of the authors of this particular statement. Call out and give thanks and honor. Tabitha Austin, Shannon Brogdon Grantham, Kukua Anna Butson, Nyla Byrd, Melinda Carol, Anya Donnie, Justin Donovan, Marlene Gray, Kayla Henry Griffin, Ebenezer Cote, LaStarsha McGarrity, Monique Patterson, Frederick Wallace and any others that contributed to the statement. And the reason why I wanted to pause here and say that is because not only is this a collective, but this is also a collective of leaders who have literally laid out a pathway for the ways in which we can transform just at least this one portion of the cultural heritage sector. It's not only beautifully written. It's clear. It's concise. And again it lays out a pattern for the ways in which we can end bias in our, in our discipline, as well as forge a path forward for deep radical inclusion. And then finally in closing, I wanted to just sort of put on the table the ways in which that particular statement, as well as so many of the things that we've seen again in our, in our discipline in the last six months, even to a year, really do harken back to the deep levels of anti blackness in our cultural heritage sector. One of the things that I wanted to specifically call out in that statement by the folks that I just mentioned, is this notion that in order for us to truly transform our field and to be able to move forward. We really and truly must invest in the preservation research and visibility of BIPOC material culture. We have an obligation and a duty to not only think about but understand and unpack the ways in which our daily lives are permeated by anti blackness specifically anti blackness strips blackness of value so it dehumanizes, and then it systematically marginalized marginalized black people. I wanted to specifically call out some examples of the ways in which we've seen that, even again in just the last several weeks. I wanted to specifically name the fact that we were made aware that we have the human remains of the children who were murdered in the move bombing in Philadelphia. That those remain somehow ended up in a museum. We have joyfully now, we have the issue of the Benin bronzes that are are now being returned to the continent. But the reason why I want to bring that up is because, and I just want to put this on the table for us to come back to a later in conversation. In many ways, we talk about what constitutes conservation, the ways in which we frame its importance. I want us to be able to unpack the fact that, in a lot of ways, colonialism and imperialism have taken that to levels where essentially we have what I would call a hoarding problem. It's one thing if we have one or two Benin bronzes. It's another thing if we have 131415 Benin bronzes. Why don't we have those. Why do we have that amount. So that's something I definitely want us to be able to come back to and talk, talk about in our conversation. I wanted to also specifically call out the lack of support and representation of black and bi pop conservators. I want us to be able to talk about it unpack why that is. Finally, I just wanted to end with a couple of critical questions for reflexive practice. How might we dream and work towards transformative practices as opposed to hiding in the colonialism prisms of current conservative practice masks as best practices. What are the ways that conservatives can liberate themselves from institutional racism and structures in real time in this moment, even as they operate in transition and flux. What are the ways in which conservatives can center joy in their work. To me that's very important. Joy is the kind of resistance. What are the ways in which you can take action towards your own on learning. I just want to end on this, because I think I'm out of time. I want everyone to think about what Robin Kelly tells us in his book dream freedom dreams the black radical imagination. When we talk about this notion of transformation and change and we talk about vision. Robin Kelly says without new visions we don't know what to build only what to knock down or what to reject. We don't only end up confused, rudderless and cynical but we forget that making a revolution is not a series of clever maneuvers and tactics, but a process that can and must transform us and again us is the collective. Oftentimes dreaming gets reduced to the individual process of envisioning something different. Dreams can have transformative impact though, if we all put in the work. And again, I would argue that we can do that work. If we practice self reflexivity, and I'll end there. Thank you so much Dr more, you have set an amazing foundation for our discussion today and I'm, I'm jotting down questions as we're going because that was just really fantastic. Let's move on to our next panelist. We have Seema Rao, whose talk is titled serving collections better by confronting bias. Hello all, I'm choosing not to use slides because we have lived a year full of visual stimuli. And so in honor of your wellness, I'm not using slides and I'm also going to do something slightly different it's a nice counterpart to talk. I'm going to give you a couple of concrete examples because one of the things that for me about all the things that happen in our field and particularly as a person of color who works in our field is that I hear a lot of things and I think but how does that have to do with my job. And I'm happy to say there's at least two peers of mine on this talk, they messaged me separately I can't see them but I'm very happy to have them. I'm actually happy to see the stars his name on there because I once worked with her. And I really the thing about for me about museum work is that it often comes down to the conserver. I have worked with so many wonderful conservators I stood in so many rooms next to an object and hoped that it can go on display and waited for your diagnosis. I'm very thankful for all of you. And I know that the work you do feels incredibly imperative you have the weight of the future and the past on you and that must be overwhelming. In a way that I don't have I get to talk about beautiful things install beautiful things but it isn't on me. And I'm sure that that is overwhelming. So I'm giving you two examples to help you see because I think one time sometimes when I talk to conservators I realize that you live in often and I think of museums as being sometimes people feel like they're either in the no fields or the yes fields. I come from digital technology and education where we are the yes, yes, see it all. And I think sometimes the weight of the know is untrue. And just as Dr more said our world is actually not binary, we are not in no fields or yes fields. What I think a lot of us do is that we either say no but we're trying to find a way to say yes, or we're saying yes but secretly saying no. And really what these projects tell you a little bit about is how do you negotiate both of those. I will also say to you and I understand this quite, quite certainly that I know that conservation work is a little bit different than some of our other fields and that you have to literally be in the building with the object very often. And that means that for many of us who can work from home and I know that many of you work from home on things you can but sometimes that constraint means that some of the projects. I remember in a previous place that I worked. It was like many museums meeting full. And if you had to call a conservative was very challenging them it was either come to the meeting, or fix a rembrandt. Now, kind of tough choice to make as an institution. And I understand that so I'm telling you these things because I think that sometimes some of the things about confronting bias and self reflection can happen in the split second of a decision. Well, this these two stories kind of tell you a little bit about that. So the first is a project that we did that we just completed that took us about a year. We decided, we wanted to really understand our collection, many of us were kind of fairly new to the organization. And so we decided to do a mass demographic study. And it. We had a number of people work on it many of our front of house people when they couldn't be front of house because our building was closed they did this. And we looked at every artist and we decided we were going to think about their demographics. And one of the best things we did and the thing that I found really useful is that before we did any coding of anybody's demographics is that we sat down and we think thought about this, and we discussed it. And that's when it came out of that and the thing that I think always when I talk to conservators is when a conservator tells me a little bit about where they're coming from sometimes it really helps me understand where they're going. And I think that things like class and we actually talked about socioeconomic class quite a lot in this study because you know classes change so if you have a collection our collection is from 1850 on so class is actually fairly the terms that you use in class are so drastically different than today. But if you have an encyclopedia collection classes certainly different if you're looking at ancient Egyptian object as now. But being able to articulate them and also articulate where you come from. We talked a lot about how so much of our team comes from an up on middle class background. And so our coding of class and where the class variations are is quite different than somebody who might not. We've been lucky to work with people who are honest with where they come from in lots of different ways. We also talked about diversity in terms of people who are not my marked minorities. So, you know, I have brown skin it marks me as perhaps different. I don't know if you know maybe maybe it's, you would know somebody who is ethnically Indian which is what I am. If you can see me and think that I will say that there's people who have brown skin who are ethnically let's say guineas or Nepali so I be careful, you know, but we have some you have some place to go but there's lots of people who might not be marked in that way and so we talked a lot about what does that mean, and we spent a lot of time before we started the study really discussing it. And so what we did was we started with self reflection, and then we went through it and we articulated it and the reason that I bring this up is because it taught us that articulating the context brings all of our biases to the floor and it helps us as a collective come through it. And we did come up with all these terms and we talked about which ones we would use we use outside artists street artists, veteran veteran for wars, we really went through so many things and we actually catalog quite a lot of sort of elements of diversity. And we wanted to understand when we said the word diversity as an organization what we meant. And there wasn't, and this is an important part of it. When you confront bias, you have to give yourself some grace. I learned a lot of biases that I had. There were things like, I know that I'm an academically trained person, I turned out I was pretty much biased towards academically trained artists. Now it's not, you know it's neither here nor there I would have assumed someone to be academically trained first. It's the assumption that's a bias, you know biases are just any time that you have blinders. And so thinking out those blinders is really important. It's really it's just, it's so hard. We were saying earlier but I think this is true if somebody was outside of you they would probably see you so differently, like you know an alien drops down and they see humanity. And so this gave us that option is a collective. And the biggest part of it is that it helped us create consensus. We created a common language around these things. I strongly encourage you to create ways that you can have commonality, not just in your own department, but across your organization. And now this this demographics project is something that all of us can kind of call on and we can say you know what one of the things that we really want in this show is because before that people would say to us how diverse is your collection. And I didn't really know what they were asking. I mean I could guess and I think that anybody who is BIPOC right now gets like you know if you're BIPOC and somebody says what does diversity mean to you they want you to say race. Certainly, I mean I would also second Dr. Moore and saying that you know we, we are in a moment where we've had a country that has really particularly African Americans but race is important. It is certainly something we should think of. And we should, we should law those but it isn't the only thing. And I think that particularly when we're in many of our locations might be at the crux of race and class. You might be seated on a land. And I should have said at the beginning and I'm sorry I just jumped in. I am on unseated Erie and Mississauga land in Cleveland. And I have to tell you, we were just recently saying that many of us who were raised here have never met who is Erie. That is a terrible thought. I honestly have never, I live very close to Lake Erie. I just saw it minutes ago. I have never met anybody Erie. I've never heard that language spoken. All of these things that we say in our organizations help us do better. Every single person you walk into in a meeting helps you do a better job of breaking bias. And when you can find a project like this demographic project becomes a locust of all your experiences. What was nice about the project also to go back to where I started is people could work on this sort of separately and we thought about it. Not everyone was like hands on but we got to talk about it. It really helped us. And the final thing I would say about the demographic project is that a thing I think that also happens in organizations are I'm in a small to midsize museum and I worked in a fairly large museum is that we do these things because like somebody it's like when you're parenting and you decide we're gonna eat vegetables from now on. And so you really like buy all those vegetables you cook two or three nights and then about four nights in you get take away. So many times a lot of our do a nursing initiative start with very good intentions and then work picks up and you lose it. And so what happened in this project was, we were going to make it through and we were going to make it make action, and it did. And so the way this one make action is and I know that one of my colleagues my current colleagues, I saw her post the ancestral lands she's on helped us, we knew, for example that our collection had really wonderful BIPOC artists and queer artists, we were working on the walls. And so as we went through and we finished our project, then we were able to work with conservation to ensure that a work like our beloved Larry Pittman was able to be hung. And so sometimes I will say that you know conservation and real challenge I think sometimes happens is you're in between a lot of things you're working on the thing, and maybe working closely with the curator. But sometimes these forces are like outside of you, but in this case, it's also the responsibility of us who works with conservation to make sure and actually we went to my colleague who's there and I'll call her out, but to say is this able to be hung. And sometimes it's it's a system where all the system parts sometimes have to know where everyone else is going. In conservation, you might feel like the cog in a machine. And what I would encourage you to do is to go back to where I started really trying to articulate him so why are we making this choice. I know it can be sometimes hard because you're just trying to get it done. But if you can make sure that you can be part of it, even intellectually, even though say you can't leave the lab. So much is happening. If you can even intellectually have a conversation that says Oh, is this why you want to do that. It might help you in the decisions you make. For example, it might mean and one of the things that we did was we prioritized what had to go to where and when we're going to call in conservation, you know, funding is a source of showing where your priorities are. And in our instance, we have really focused this year, you know, like on, you know, if this can be conserved or that can be conserved I'm not talking about putting any object to rich. We've just had an independent neutral choice. And you understand what your collection is going for what your future is and our future is being a collection that shows more diversity, then we have an easy way to make that metric. And it actually helps all of us. All of this kind of these conversations help us all. So the second project I want to talk about is a large digital photography project. I love it from digital and I love it and I, you know, we think of digital as being perhaps some people think of it as biasless. It's certainly not at all. And one of the things that we really thought a lot about was how bias is associated with how we do our photography. So here's where we really thought about actions. Things like one thing that we did was I wanted to think about. And I think one of the things you can do about bias the one I was talking about is bias rate to think about our bias right now and coding it. We in the photography project also want to think about where bias can go. And so we started by I was thinking about there's a wonderful article at museums in the web about using AI and machine reading to read photographs and I think they used photographs account remember which collection. But the photographs were all on a colored ground. This is a pretty common practice and if you notice, if you go through collection databases the way I do. You will see things like farmer might be on a blue ground because it looks good with it. Things that are from, you know, Asian collections might be on a like, you know, turmeric colored ground or something. Now that actually is a bit of bias. So we decided to check it with AI because the study that was in museums in the web was only with Western objects. And so we were like, I wonder how machine reading will work on images that are on color backgrounds, which is where often a lot of non Western works came from and so are shot on and so when we did we found out that it really was hard to read and it didn't get read at all and AI has a lot of bias. It was like TikTok, for example, which our organization is probably on now. Sadly, my face is right now the face of it but soon it'll be my team. But that for example reads white faces faster than brown faces. And these seem like they don't have anything to do with us but we don't know where photographs are going to we don't know what the future of digital collections are. And so for us what we wanted to do is we ended up shooting everything on a white ground. Because we wanted to try to future cast where our collective my go and if we use more AI, we wanted to not have those surprise elements of bias. Now you can only do your best. I think one of the things I constantly think about in our field and I was thinking about this morning about something totally different is that I think we spend a lot of time worrying about the future. And that is perhaps not the best choice for us in our sanity. But I think if you can make some good choices and that was one where we made our good choices and we decided to try to really be very thoughtful about what blinders we had. And in that case, our blender was that we were choosing formal, you know, settings that we felt like looked good with the object but we were actually adding surprise bias to it. In that case, what we did was we used action to help us with bias. So in the first one I was talking about communication words as a form of thinking about bias, but for some of the kinds of bias that you have. Sometimes you have to put yourself into acting situations and in this case, AI taught us that lesson. Finally, I wanted to say that both of these situations are really about systems. So bias is that it's everywhere. We are, we are truly just it's where we're within this cesspool of bias right you, you see our gender for example you can't help but be connected as maybe somebody because of your own experiences. So we have every system and our institutions were born out of bias. They were born out of this idea that we can collect things and keep them for the rest of eternity. There is an element of bias that's part of the system. And so if you use action, as I explained in my second example or if you use conversation what you're actually doing is putting yourself in the position of working against that system. And when you feel like you can't handle it. It's actually because the system is bringing you down. And I will tell you the system brings me down about as much as the bridge system makes me feel like I can do it. My whole career, I have felt like and I think probably almost everyone who's worked in this field feels like that. At some point in their lives that the system is a wall that you cannot break. And for whatever part you're in it. And the only way that I have seen of making sure that I decrease bias and make myself feel like I'm doing something is when I create actions through words or through act literal actions against the systemic forces of bias that we are all within. And I think I have like one more minute, but I will seed my time my last minute to Stephanie. Thank you, Seema. Thank you so much today I see conference organizers for having me and thank you to my colleagues Dr portion more and Seema Rao for their work and being in community with me and thank you to everyone for joining us I'm truly delighted to be here, virtually. And as was shared, I'm the co founder and creative director of museum hue and museum hue is located on the unseated territories of the Lenay, the not pay here in New York. So again, thank you everyone. And I'm going to share my slides with you all because I want to show you some demonstrations of the ways that I've been working through museum hue and the way that the organization has evolved. So museum hue the creation of museum hue I should say in 2015 was to in many ways garner greater representation in the field to be much more reflective of our society challenge the mainstream museum field to acknowledge their historical exclusionary practices and infiltrate the sector in a way that interrupt and change its practices and policies. And very early on the way museum hue was doing this was having discussions with black, indigenous and other people of color about their experience in the field, and how we can take action. So we started out as a collective just having these conversations in our homes, or cafes amongst ourselves, then we brought this issue directly to the institutions, relinquishing fear of retribution. The first of these experiences was at the Metropolitan Museum of Art where about 30 of us came to meet with leaders of that institution about our concerns and expectations of the museum. And then we discussed a range of topics including anti blackness, as well as the displays and commodification of cultural art without acknowledgement of colonial violence. We also discussed the growing diversity equity and inclusion initiatives as it relates to staff and artworks and more. And in doing so we work to interject our experience and narratives as well as point out the need for the systemic change in the sector. So we had dozens of these visits beginning with most of the major New York City museums. We grew to then begin offering panel discussions workshops and other guided experiences at both museums and historic sites. And so through this work over the years. Museum hue has demonstrated how crucial it is for black, indigenous and other people of colors voices to be centered in the field. Today Museum hue has about 200 museums across the US as institutional members from mega sized art and encyclopedic museums to small historic museums. Members are also the American Alliance of museums and the National Trust for historic preservation which helps to create as we know the standards for many museum and historic preservation practices. So museum hue has also hundreds of individual members that are mostly museum professionals from different parts of the fields from conservation preservation, education curation, etc. So with many of the cultural entities that are museum hue members there are also diversity equity and inclusion initiatives as well as an awareness that representation matters. But to be honest, there are a lot of people struggling to bring these issues pertaining to race to the forefront of their institution. So museum hue works to engage in conversations around racial equity in the field and helps to cast a wider net in assisting individuals and institutions in their search for diverse candidates. And so through this work museum hue is creating a web in the field of many different institutions are working to shift the framework of the sector by collectively engaging in conversations on leadership, audience exhibitions and conservation, social justice issues, as it relates specifically to race museum hue has become a hub for knowledge sharing and networking and so we try to to use visual imagery and interpretation within exhibitions and historic sites for example, to utilize it as a change agent for narratives of black life, for example, that can affect our perceptions of justice, reshaping our understanding of art, history, culture and society and making these spaces relevant to our everyday lives. So these cultural spaces are also meeting places designed to foster dialogue and spark ideas. So they are very much relevant and as museum professionals. And as a museum professional myself I should say, I'm fully aware of the relevance and power that these entities whole but I think many more can tap into that power. But I wanted to specifically uplift Weeksville Heritage Center for this conversation. It is a historic site and multi disciplinary museum dedicated to preserving the history of 19th century African American community in Brooklyn, where I was born and raised. Weeksville Heritage Center was, as I stated, you know a historic site, one of the first free black communities in New York, specifically, and its preservation of the site was led by black women in Brooklyn, New York. And it was my first example of showing that community can take up the mantle to say these sites, these things, these histories are critical, and is important. And so growing up around this community. I really invoked the importance of black spaces, the preservation, the conservation of black spaces, specifically, especially today as New York City continues to evolve and as someone who is born and raised in Brooklyn. I'm not a generation American but still my ancestry is those of the enslaved in the Caribbean. And if you know the history of Weeksville Heritage Center with these black women were able to do is to show just the diasporic lens of the black story and the black specifically as it relates to Brooklyn, they have records that people who found sanctuary found a home found a safe space in Weeksville came from different parts of the United States, and also the Caribbean, and the continent, as well. And so, seeing the work that they've done and seeing the longevity of Weeksville has been really, really critical to the work that I've done over the years. I have a video short video about Weeksville that I wanted to show as well I hope you all can hear it but we'll try it's only a minute long. So much of what we tend to learn about black history is sort of a catalog of overcoming wrongs that have been done to black people in this country. And that's all valid history and it should be known. Weeksville is the flip side of that is the story of self sufficiency and self determination and entrepreneurship when it was formed in 1838. The idea was to have a space where black people could just live their lives to the fullest and in search of the American dream just like other Americans. The historic site is the site of memory that memory helps build identity identity builds community community and institution building is really a form of resistance, but you can also just come and celebrate and just be black in an evolving Brooklyn things can get lost. Director of Weeksville Heritage Center about identity how memory is so critical identity is critical and how institutional building is a critical part of resistance as well and that's why what I see Weeksville as the creation of Weeksville historically and also contemporary the preservation of Weeksville as a historic site today. And I wanted to move on to this idea of being culturally responsive and thinking more about why spaces like Weeksville and back to what Dr. Moore was talking about this idea of decentering whiteness and this idea of amplifying black and brown and other people of color voices and visibility, and I think we have to provide more space to tell the stories and share the voices that people of color have been doing for so long in this country but yet even in the museum field, we continue to amplify and center predominantly white institutions, we continue to center predominantly white voices, and we continue to think about diversity equity inclusion as having black and brown and other people of color bodies and white spaces, instead of thinking about what true agency and equity looks like in these United States of America. And so I wanted to talk about culturally responsive museums largely known as culturally specific as well. For a long time these institutions have demonstrated for many years, like Weeksville, what a space can look like when we have our own agency and equity and what it can do for a community. So, I was able to create in 2019 early 2020 database specifically about black and other people of color museums and cultural spaces to look at specifically how these entities have been successful in preserving and conserving their own stories their own spaces, and how we can begin to look towards the work that they've done over the many years and this honestly was largely inspired by seeing the near closure of Weeksville Heritage Center in 2019. Again, growing up around that site I never imagined that it would ever be lost. I thought it was so crucial it is so crucial but yet, there was a fight to have the institution to still be in operations and the executive director was able to fulfill that goal but we have to talk about the inequitable practices in allowing you know black and people of color entities to survive and to thrive. And so that's the conversation that I want this site to do as well so this online platform has over 150 institutions listed so far it's still growing visitors to the site can filter their searches by categories names and location. Currently, we're looking at predominantly black institutions on the screen. So this database aims to elevate organizations presence amplify their work. These museums have been a part of the nation's cultural landscape for many years, some over 100 years. So I began by creating a directory and map through this lack of, you know, through the lack of aggregated data and information that tells the stories of their critical work and needs of these institutions. This ongoing comprehensive research and compilation of these museums visitors to the site can filter their searches by different categories as I shared. It is an effort to contextualize a larger spectrum of us museums and communities, it is an effort to assist in moving these museums methodologies from the periphery to the center to inform museum practice, and it expands. What museums are or how museums are defined. So their work highlights that a sense that an essential part of liberation has been the creation of museums to tell our own histories. Celebrate arts are artistic practice, strengthen cultural ties and improve the state of our communities. So that the map helps to paint a fuller more vibrant portrait of arts and culture across the nation's landscape. So although widely differing, they are united in their vision to bolster greater advocacy and representation in the field. These museums have brought in our collective understanding of art and history by showcasing creative practices and cultural contributions often missing from the mainstream. This has helped counter historical omissions, misconceptions and problematic depictions of black indigenous and other people of color communities. These museums have been also a key part of community building their pedagogy can also be referred to as culturally responsive which places people and community care at the center of their practice. So, again, back to what Dr more had expressed around this idea of quartering right in these spaces and how can these entities show that we don't necessarily need thousands and millions of works in our collection, and also learning from a lot of indigenous museums myself that when a lot of the items that is returned to them through NAGPRA from larger predominantly white institutions. They don't just keep it in their now collection. They use it for its ceremonial practices or they rebury it right so showing again that we don't have to continue to hold on to these cultural items. So culturally specific museums, not only provide a consistent platform to study showcase visual art related to their community, but they also provide us an opportunity to think more critically about the integral role that museums can play in looking at the needs of the community. So, I'm really excited to have the opportunity to be teaching at Drexel, looking at specifically culturally responsive museums within the museum leadership department. I think there are many forces that, you know, should that should allow us to center these entities and to think about ways that we continue to even in the conversation that we're having today may think about diversity equity and inclusion in predominantly white spaces, but how can we think about equity how can we think about greater reciprocity how can we think about ways to create greater equity within the communities. And within the institutions cultural institutions that are already doing this critical work and so it's been really exciting having the opportunity to center these institutions from what I've learned. In many museum departments throughout the country, there isn't a centering of non white institutions and I think that also has to change if we're thinking about conservation. If we're thinking about ways to change the field, I think it's so critical that we think about the ways that people of color have conserved and have created their own efforts to create these their own standards within their community that has bolstered our understanding of arts and culture and thinking about ways that these institutions can be centered in the future moving forward. So, that's all I have for you today so thank you so much for having me again. Thank you so much Stephanie it was great to sort of be ending with that museum Hugh directory to kind of get us started on thinking about institutions. There's some people asking about it in the chat and we, I think see my postal link and I also wanted to just do a quick shout out to the museum Hugh job board as well. As we're thinking about, you know, expanding who is included and who even sees the job postings. I just wanted to shout that out as another place to be to be posting. But I want to jump into our conversation I mean, you guys have been sort of following on and building on some ideas already which is great to see. But sort of thinking where Stephanie left us off thinking about institutions who's an institutions and how they operate. I want to start with a question we have about changes that predominantly white institutions would need to make in order to reduce bias on a structural level and we have been talking about some systems here, and to make these institutions more welcoming to museum professionals from marginalized communities. So Stephanie if I could start with you. Again we've been talking about some of these ideas, but but to bring it all all in here about about changes at predominantly white institutions. Yeah, thank you for that. As I shared even in my presentation, museum Hugh, and the work that I'm doing and my thinking has evolved throughout the five plus years at museum Hugh has been founded and I think for me, thinking about predominantly white spaces, I think it's important to have that reciprocity I think it's important to think about ways that we can uplift black and and people of color voices indigenous voices as well and what can we learn at this point of the work that we do from other entities as well so again if this was a question asked, maybe just last year the year before, you know conversations around diversity equity and inclusion were very critical to me but thinking more and more about ways that there can be equal support for black indigenous and people of color spaces to learn from those entities and to. And the reason why it's kind of switched in that way too is because of the fact that there needs to be more conversation around what equity can look like for the survival of different sorts of institutions. So I think the way that we combat bias is if we have you know institutions and in equal footing as well. And so I think that's important but I think if we're thinking about predominantly white institutions and how they can specifically work to combat their identities I think it's around interpretations and narratives right and who gets to tell the story and all those questions around seats at the table and leadership and and who is your board and all those kind of questions are critically important but again. I'm thinking very critically around greater support for our institutions that we've built. That's great and I would add, you know, specifically for conservators you know as you bring up the museum Hugh directory is just like a very easy place to think really intentionally about partnerships you do a lot of partnerships and conservation, who are the stakeholders we're talking to as we think about treatment or display. So both of those are really important and often conservators don't think of themselves as having a seat at that table related to the board or related exhibitions but I would really encourage fellow conservators to think about the power that we really do have. As non conservators here on the panel perhaps you can speak more about sort of the perception of conservation but I really do think we come in with a lot of power and can help uplift a lot of voices even just in our institution that that don't get as much of a voice especially related to objects. And as as Persha was outlining and as Seema has talked about like we have a lot of say on how objects are treated. And that's, you know the crux of what museums are at the end of the day as we think about museums. Well, if we think about just really quickly academia and how conservation are taught I think that's where the issue stems right so how can we open up that kind of knowledge sharing pool from the, you know academic level where you have more indigenous and black, and more of color voices that better understand ways of conservation or different ways of conservation and so I think again you know it goes back to who is, you know, the bearer of information and who gets to share knowledge and who gets to be, you know knowledgeable about conservation. What does it take, you know an academic degree to take. You know this this kind of research background or can it be community driven right and what does it look like for community and Weeksville Heritage Center for me growing up in Brooklyn, showed me that it can definitely be community driven and it can be preserved and preserved in the way that that works best for the community and that might look like reburying some items that you have or returning some items that you have. And so that's, that's an important part of the conversation for me. I've been thinking a lot about this idea of power, and you know that so often organizations have this sort of hierarchical sense of power and who decides and all of these sorts of things. It has so often the people who have either the highest salaries or the most perceived power are the ones who have either the least connection to the actual objects we hold or the visitors that we interact with. And I think that there's lots of ways we can reposition that. And, you know, in terms of conservation, I think a lot about over the years so I now work in a modern contemporary museum, which is sort of an odd place for me because it's not really my field necessarily and largely the administrator would say, but, you know, my, you know, the things that I had worked on over time were things that were more historical, and the more time any object has the more people who might have interacted with it. And I think a lot about say, you know, an Asian collection that has left Asia, and wherever in Asia it is, and then it's being conserved, it has gone through hands. It is also probably, maybe that was an object of faith that's gone away from that faith. And then into a sort of sterile place. And then when you sit with a conservator and a, you know, curator and they decide where it has to stop, you know, like, where are we preserving it to, you are actually making a choice. And largely that African collections, and many of which have, you know, been, have been either, you know, touched with, you know, it's had, you know, accretions or whatever it's happened to it, that we are choosing to hold them to a certain moment in time and that is a bias we are adding to it. And we often don't acknowledge that. And the lack of acknowledgement is about actually making a choice towards bias. It's not that we don't, we shouldn't do it, it's that we need to acknowledge it sometimes even just the acknowledgement of that transforms it because it goes back to what Stephanie was saying, you know, I think when I hear what Stephanie is talking about it's that no longer should it be the default, white organizations, white decisions. The vast majority of this globe is not the vast majority of our collections are not. And so the rethinking that is incredibly imperative to the future of our view. Absolutely. And, you know, we're talking about implicit bias and how it manifests in conservation and one question we've gotten specifically to Portia. So Portia we can start with you and open up but you know are there examples that you can give of best practices, which are influenced by colonialist assumptions. And I think there's there's a lot to unpack there. I'm not specifically thinking about institutions, but you know, take take that in whatever direction you want, you want to take that in. Okay, thank you. So I will say yes there's a lot to unpack there. So the first thing is, that I work in academia. I'm also always in tension with academia, because of the fact that I, I tend to do is exactly what Stephanie is saying is center other ways of knowing an academia is the exact opposite of that. One of the things I try to work on with my students and in my own research is looking at what we have agreed upon as the cannon, and then trying to break that completely apart to look at whose voices and narratives and expertise if you will have been excluded. I feel the exact same way about the ways in which we train professionalism. If you have a degree or training or any kind of specialized subset of knowledge, and someone or some entity has granted you the level of professional or if you can even work at the level of, you know, having that title of being a professional. That actually should stop there. You are a professional. It is not until you walk into institution or you work in partnership with institution that now you go from becoming a professional to now having to work within the framework of professionalization, right. So what professionalization then means is, you have this knowledge credential, but now in order to work within institution, your hair has to look a certain way. I want to call that out specifically for visibly people who embody features or coloration that looks like you are black and BIPOC. We are still right now experiencing crown laws that unpack the professionalization of black hair. So I can't just show up with my natural hair that grows the way that it grows from my head in certain institutions and be labeled as a professional. I have my knowledge credential. There's something drastically violent about that, that someone would be able to then tell me that with my knowledge, my specialized skill set that I'm still not deemed credible or acceptable that in order to be able to work within this body or organization, my hair has to look a certain way. So I can put it out in very specific racist ways, right. The other thing I want to say is, when we talk about professionalization, we're looking at, you know, dress codes, again going back to hair, specifically with black hair. I remember very vividly I just shared this example with someone not that long ago. I was in high school about to enter college, and I was super excited to work at a grocery store. I went in with braids, freshly done, beautifully created braids. And I remember being interviewed and the manager, you know, was talking to me about expectations, blah, blah, blah. And she said something like, Oh, something about my braids and she said, Oh, braids are fine. But you absolutely absolutely would not be able to work here if you had dreadlocks because dreadlocks are dirty and nasty and not clean. And I remember just processing that like what do you mean I know people who have locks. Locks are actually quite spiritual and religious depending on where you are in all these different things that is a racial bias right there's a lot of coded language within that. I also want to talk about when we talk about professionalization, you have issues such as work style, the tone of your voice notions of timeliness. This notion that objectivity is is not to be questioned but is accepted as a kind of unbiased. We look at the ways in which we that we there's a hierarchy in terms of like what we actually value. There's a whole coded thing about, especially when it comes to the hiring process about who's a cultural fit, who's a fit or personality fit for this institution who basically who fits in with us as a group and there's you know there's so many other things. I want to just put into the space and I'll try to drop it into the chat. If everyone is not familiar with Tima O'Coon and Keith Jones brilliant little small piece about that has so much power about the sort of 10 or so characteristics of white supremacy workplace culture. That is something that every organization needs to know and understand, particularly when we talk about within museums. There's a lot of times that if the thing is so there's like one of the characteristics is an allegiance to the written word. So if there's not a policy if if there's not a report if there's not something in an email that it has no validity. You know that we can't we can't make decisions without this allegiance to the written word in actuality. Again, this is why I'm saying I love the fact that we're here in conversation. The real learning actually takes place. And speaking certain things automatically happen because we are human beings and we're having human interaction that there's learning that takes place or there's new information that can be synthesized that doesn't actually have to be written. And so I want to I want to kind of tease it out a little bit and say that white supremacy work culture essentially that allegiance to that written word essentially makes it such that anything that is written is the thing that has the supremacy right. It's the law. It's the Constitution is the thing that we can go back and judge and that we can that we can regulate and regulate in ways that oftentimes demean or undermine or belittle again real learning that might take place or real innovation or creativity that might get stifled because it's not something that can be written or formalized. The other thing I want to say is. Yes, Mark Zuckerberg owns his own company. However, Mark Zuckerberg can show up anywhere anytime anyplace in the whole universe wearing a hoodie. And no one will question his professionalization, his credential, his ideology, nothing. But I showed up everywhere with a hoodie and braids, people would police me, they would not value my thinking, they would not they would want some proof and validity of my actual credential, like I would be questioning police in a different way. So that those are some of the things that I would have that I mean by professionalization. And then what I want to also sort of end on is this notion of best practices. Let's see if I can pull this up. If I was looking at the, let's see, I was looking at the one the code of ethics and guidelines for conservators right looking at the preamble and the code and the guidelines for practice. I mean, there's so many things here that we can unpack. So on the one hand, I'm not in any way saying that we should not be guided by common values, we definitely should be guided by common values. But the other thing that I would say though is. Let's sort of go harkening back to what Stephanie I think was arguing code number one, the conservation professional shall strive to attain the highest possible standards, and all aspects of conservation, including but not limited to preventive conservation examination documentation treatment research and education. Okay, that's great. However, I would argue that this that this is still very much in a lot of ways, somewhat coded. That we mean by highest possible standards. I would argue that highest possible standards, again, would align with whatever has been the historically accepted, you know, thought practice ideology written word again of someone. You know, way back in whenever time period that did not legitimize consider or value indigenous ways of knowing and thinking. So when we talk about best practices. And we're talking about objects that were created by someone in the Andes, or someone on you know the continent of Africa. We have that knowledge to create that object. Why are we not looking back to them for that knowledge and how to conserve that object, how to preserve that object. I would argue that we would say that those were not best practices. And so for me, you know, one of I have one of my degrees is English literature, and I try really hard not to be like the word police. I would say that words do matter right so I would think I would argue that we need a deeper sort of unpacking of the language that we use and looking at the hidden connotations and meanings. And so I was sort of in there but that's sort of the gist of what I mean when I talk about why we need to critically examine best practices and standards of professionalization. I see your hand just I just want to jump on. Let me just say one thing which is, first of all that I wish I could give Dr more like a big hug, or, you know, a high five or something right now because that was just so so great and so timely and I'll just complete self promotion later in the conference on Wednesday, my co presenter Kathy and McGee and I are giving a talk on the code of ethics and really, it's really a call to rewrite or revise the code of ethics and a number of things that Dr more has been talking about, and pushing in terms of examining language among many other things. You know if you want to hear about that come to our session on Wednesday, but I just I really appreciate, you know that was just like another another talk we just got so I super appreciate that. So, Seema, go ahead and say kind of that I mean, you know, Dr more I feel like one you think you're also saying to me because I've recently said very often about the idea that credentialing is a way of promoting the systems that we have and if we want new systems that means we have to think outside of them. And as somebody who is credentialed on some level that I'm saying that is, I think it's hard for people to hear that because they're like what do you want throughout the whole system, and I would argue that many people are trying to improve the system and sometimes you have to be in it and I think about like you use the example of objects of the Inca for example and I worked in the organization had those and I worked with conservators who really did look at how they did that. And you know I've worked with a lot of conservators who are so incredibly thoughtful about where they're getting their knowledge. But I think this is also like a man on, I guess a person on the ground sort of situation where oftentimes doesn't go funneled up. And so I think it's something you're also talking about is not just the idea that our systems are often broken but it's also that the people who could fix them sometimes don't have the wherewithal don't have the time maybe are just too overworked to do it. And that comes back to how we run our workplaces in a lot of ways I think of sort of that that characteristics of white supremacy culture that was linked to I think really expands on a lot of these ideas that we're talking about about how the system is set up for us to behave exactly the way we're behaving which is almost feel like we don't have time to deal with this because we have 400 other deadlines coming up before then. So I did I did want to want to keep going on about sort of this this workplace idea, because I think so many of us are thinking of of our workplaces and how we can reform them to reflect that and I want to acknowledge that for conservators. We have institutional workplaces, we have many conservators in private practice working on their own running their own workplaces you know I just want to be be very mindful of the fact that we have a lot of different kinds of workplaces that we're talking about with with the government but see me you talked about this great demographic project of you know people talking about their own identity markers in the workplace and that got me thinking about how that can be very vulnerable, especially, you know workplace I mean just saying some of the socio economic background or even you know how you are presenting in terms of gender identity sexual orientation I mean there's so much there that can be really vulnerable and so I wanted to know how you built trust to do that kind of work in a professional It's a great question. And I think one thing that probably came and I would really acknowledge is that me and then many of my colleagues came out of the same, and this is where like, I understand why potentially happens we all came from some similar so we had something that brought us together it's sort of like Dr more said that we often work within some sort of language and I do think that that is probably where it started. You know, I'm really struck by and I want to sort of augment what both Stephanie and and sorry. I'm not use first names, even though I know them really. And that that, and I, I think it's important I actually work in a fairly homogenous organization I'm one of the few by pop people I hope there's plenty more but I understand why I live in a, I work in a city that's 70% white. I, I think that it is worth saying that that it's a little bit easier when you're in a homogenous situation and I may outlier really to be able to work in that that's probably why homogenous situations. Often, people have natural trust from each other. It's actually probably also the same reason that if you go to a conference and you see people who are BIPOC all like bring together it's also that's also what brings them together. So that helped. I think the other thing was that the stakes are really low. And we didn't have an outcome expected outcome, like it turned out that we really wanted to hang a little bit minute will go on view in a couple months but it wasn't a single thing and I think a lot of times. A lot of the reasons a lot of our actions fail is because the stakes feel very high. And when, when you are set up and so often we set up diversity experiences in our organization to fail and truthfully we set up people of color fail very largely from my experience black women. I think our in our society to whenever I see a black woman who is successful I think wow it was way harder than for me, truthfully. I mean, it's not like, you know, I don't have white skin, but I think about how much our society sets up people to fail, and based on their privilege. And so, when you have a system that sets up fewer priorities we really didn't have to do outcome. And I would actually encourage everyone to find something that feels like that because then it builds trust and then other things are built on that level. So that's what I think Seema. Stephanie, I wanted to change yours a little bit and we got a few specific questions and I want to make sure we tackle. And so we have a question about if there are any Smithsonian Hue partners, like National Museum of African American history and culture or, or just kind of wondering what like federal status might, might do to maybe affect museum hue partnership. Yeah, we have some Smithsonian's that are partners that are members as well, whether they are Smithsonian institution themselves or Smithsonian affiliate. So, they don't necessarily have to be in DC but maybe offspring of sorts, located in a different state. So yes, so there are also Smithsonian organizations that partner with us as well. And there's another question that I'm really interested in, which is about like, if you have a feel for what percentage of the museums that are created by BIPOC people are in precarious financial situations, or in danger of closing this is after, you know, our kind of our current financial crisis but in general, you know if we could talk about that because I think there is a problem with accreditation and lack of funds and just financial sustainability of BIPOC led institutions. And the follow up is if you have any thoughts about how AIC and spinach can help support them. Yeah, so a lot of them are in financial crisis because of the socioeconomics of their communities and of their networks, and also the lack of equity and philanthropy as well. And most of our federal funding, whether it be the NEH, NEA, it largely goes to predominantly white institutions, so there's also, you know, that issue as well. A lot of the predominantly white institutions that we know today, as you know, huge mammoths were once also small fledgling organizations but they got critical support from the government and from philanthropists to grow to the large sizes that we know them to be today but we don't see the same happening for our institutions. And in another panel that I was a part of, you know, a question came in specifically around these institutions, you know, being culturally specific slash culturally responsive and the question was arguing whether predominantly institutions can also be thought of as culturally specific or culturally responsive because they are responding to a certain community and was created for a certain community as well and largely supports the idea of or built on white supremacy, I should say. But these institutions have suffered for a very long time, a lot of them, the creators are activists themselves, community organizers, to this day, maybe, you know, lawyers within their community and see the importance of museums to conserve and to preserve their, their own history and their own identity in in the way that's really crucial for them in their community as I stated to strengthen cultural ties. So, ways that I see support coming in from these for these institutions from maybe larger predominantly white institutions is, you know, greater reciprocity and and partnerships. If I were working at one myself, I would get calls from predominantly white institutions, well moneyed institutions, you know, calling me because they just got, you know, like a million dollars in, you know, diversity equity funds and don't know what to do, they have the black audience specifically, and, you know, called me and said flat out to just pick my brain, not to partner, not to provide any kind of funding to support the organization to to bring maybe the people more people to that space, but to give the institution more cloud tool, you know, for bringing in more black people. And that is a constant that happens consistently and I think that, you know, museum professionals within white spaces have to be more cognizant of that practice and how problematic it can be. And also, for, you know, philanthropy as well so when philanthropists are asking for these grants around, you know, black and brown voices being lifted up in their spaces, they should also be asking, you know, who are you partnering with, and also providing an opportunity for these institutions to grow so I think it would be great to also have greater support and and vote people vocalizing support for these spaces and understanding that it's so critical for these spaces to exist for the communities that they represent and I think that there's a difference in understanding that when we're talking about communities a lot of institutions talk about communities they serve, but these are communities that they represent and that they're largely a part of so I think that's another critical part of it and then lastly I would say it's crucial for these entities to be able to be on their own footing as well and so that looks like you know whether it is providing, you know, grant writers specifically for those institutions maybe sharing grant writers with those institutions so they can, you know, provide and write their own grants to support their institution because capacity, you know, that we know well sometimes can be an issue in issue in many institutions with these institutions, it's very crucial because you know capacity is very limited. So those are some things that you know come to mind top of mind but I'm happy to you know hear other suggestions, always to provide greater support from these institutions. I want to kind of respond or not respond I want to add to what Stephanie was saying because I, in my head, I mean, there's so much to unpack there around culturally specific museums, the first thing I would look what I would that I would like to put on the table is that one of the reasons that culturally specific museums often are challenged financially with support all of these things is because visitors particularly white visitors but just to say visitors in general. I think that these institutions and their narratives and their histories are for black people, and only black people, or whatever the identity is, which is completely illogical, because if we are here in this nation, and all of our cultural heritage material and objects, and you know the therefore stories matter, then all of these institutions should be visited by all of us. So this is what I mean with about the black white binary of history. One of the things I'm working on I'm working on multiple book chapters of working on two different books, but one of the things I'm currently writing about and researching and really trying to argue is another reason so what you know, I go back to my my first 15 minutes. This work has always been for me extremely personal, but I don't know how you're talking about diversity equity access and inclusion bias any of these terms, if you're not making this work personal, especially given the year that we have had. Because this work has always been deeply personal for me. One of the things that I am not seeing as much people talk about is one of the things I'm again I'm currently writing about is the ways in which museums do not seem to be. I don't want to put. I don't want to put. What's the right word. I'm deeply concerned at the lack of concern at the ways in which we are seeing actual legislation being put on the books to teach patriotic education. I don't understand why museum professionals are not having a different kind of conversation about how that is being racially coded out to specifically say that within our schools are education systems. We are now going to force kids to learn how to think as a patriot and all know all of what that means, and how if we as museums are. You know we have parallel institutions are most of us who work in and out of museums know that a majority of the visitors constitute school field trips. So you're talking about, there's a deep connection between the collections that we have the information that we are putting on display, and then the education that students are learning in school. Anyway, I think that's a, that's a, that's a wind along wind and way of me saying that these institutions are often struggling because we simply don't support them because we other these narratives. I will take it all the way back to also talk about. I don't want to get too far in the weeds but the black museum movement. You have to think about the why these museums were even started in the first place. Again largely because we valued our own narratives, we were able to articulate why these particular stories were important, why these particular figures were important, and not getting the traction and responsiveness from white facing organizations that even understood why what we were saying is valuable became you know is valuable. I want to kind of maybe put that on the table and just say that like, these institutions could be even, you know, flourish even more. If we understood that we have a very, you know, our education system in the, in our ways in which we interpret things are again so sort of black and white. So very like, we're just not telling the stories that way that we need to tell them we're not even. So I think a lot of ways we're even selecting the objects that need to be selected, which is a whole other conversation. So I'll stop here. I jump in there. Sorry, I'm sorry to interrupt you. I know it's 130 and I know Stephanie had to jump off. So I just want to give her a moment and not have her just disappear off the screen into the ether so I just want to take a moment to thank Stephanie for being here and for the time that you were talking to us. So thanks. And if I can really quickly just add on and I know see what's been add on to, but also thinking about cultural authority as well I think that there is a hoarding of cultural authority being done as well within our field with the black museum movement indigenous museums other museums created. They have done a really great job in creating narratives and interpretations. I'm missing from the large mainstream museum field but what we see is, we don't see much support coming from these mainstream museums, but we see the same interpretations and narratives and community care that these entities have so focused on and nurtured, that they can be done now within predominantly white institutions without looking at the critical work that they've done throughout the many, many years but I'm so so grateful to be on this panel with, you know, Dr portion more and see morale as well. So thank you again to AIC conference for having me. So take care everyone. Thank you. I'm going to come back to what she was saying. I just, she said so many really important things which I wanted to just, and Dr more did as well. You know, it's interesting to me where kind of goes back to this idea that we were in psychopedic that we could hold on knowledge as a society and hold it forever to me. I think about the sort of idea that some museums have the authority to be in psychopedic and some are cultural. And what does that imply what is the hierarchy that's implied there. And when you're in psychopedic, what does that mean, what are you holding on to, who are you holding it on for. I mean, you know, I think that her comment was so important I wanted to underscore it. And this idea is it for the community of the community or of the community the black, you know, museums movement is of the community but partly because the other museums were acting of the community. And the idea that these museums really are pernicious in terms of community engagement often and I will say that I've worked in community as my whole, my whole career and I think really critically now that some of the works that some of the work I've done and if it was referencing the museum or preferencing the community and what the community meant when they were saying that. And so, at the core of this because you know you're like probably people sitting in whatever room they're in and thinking but I have to do a different thing to me all of the things that Stephanie was saying kind of goes back to why, you know, this is the year that any job you did became part of society, maybe we used to be able to kind of separate it from that. But now we've been conserving that object, I think all of us have all the things we do in this field need to start going back to why why are we doing this, why do we have to do this. What does this have to do with whatever is happening and isn't the right decision, and if you can't really decide that this is the right decision ethnically, then maybe you need to hold on. Well, so, so as we're thinking about that, I mean, many, as I was saying earlier, you know many conservators work in private practice and have their own businesses, and their clients maybe institutions, but they, you know they're individuals and you know, conservative private practice conservators in particular as we think about community are very much rooted in sort of what their community needs and how you know that that's who they are working for and with. So, you know, do you have any advice on checking your own biases when your work is dependent on oftentimes wealthy clients that have the means to pay for that conservation work you know what. What I'm trying to get at is what is community work look like when, of course money is a is a crucial part of that and just sort of who is in your community and how you interact with them. I don't know that I'm the right person because I am I do hire and I really thankful because mine are really honest. I do happen to live in similar communities to them and I goes back to trust and honesty is a lot easier with somebody who's already within your community on some level. So I don't know that I can say that I mean I do think about them they walk into our space or maybe we take something to their space but often they walk into our space and to have to be into our norms. And there's a lot of code switching that must have to happen as you walk to our space versus wherever other clients they're working with. I think that they, the ones that I work with have amazing. I think this is true when I was a consultant, I thought this was true. And not as perhaps good as my conservators that we work with now, they have a bit way of speaking that is so gentle. It's a, you know, such a gentle strength. And I certainly appreciate it, but I also think that we are music and it's probably different than working with somebody. I think that the other people, some of our private collectors who they work with are harder. And I suspect one thing, I can't give them, I can give them no advice, but I consider them I appreciate that they continue to do that work with those people. Whoever those people might be because a lot of them bring bias that much. I mean just from talking them on my side of it. It must just wear on you. And so a thing I might say is and I'm sure you already have it but the best thing I've ever done in this field is to find people who feel like they are like me. I mean that's how the three of us know each other we've never worked in the same organization. Let me assure you that if you and I mean there was people on the list of Dr. Moore mentioned at least one of them that I had worked with and then I said the name I've cheered in myself and I know there's at least one person who's listening who worked with one of those people. She's also on it so I won't call her out either but people of color know each other in this field because it's hard to be in this field. Similarly, if you are somebody who's trying to change the field on that very granular level probably finding someone else who wants to change the field on that granular level who can listen to you when you call them on the car on the way home is probably very useful. Yes, I would I would totally close on everything that Seema just said I also don't think I'm necessarily the best person to answer that particular question but I would say it goes back to my, my earlier argument about the fact that you is a collective. And the fact that I remember just thinking like when I even got contacted to help share the statement of you know the black conservative statement and when I participated in a couple of talks over the summer I think one of them was sponsored through the hammer hammer hammer. Yeah. Anyway, I guess the point I want to make is, I would argue that continuing to form the collective, continuing to make that change just as Seema said at the granular level, I think would also help to put forth not only messaging, but create for clients, even a sense that a change is happening right, and that there's a united front of the new standards and the new practices and the new visioning for what this work looks like, but also the values associated with a conservative. So I would just argue that the more collective organizing and energy that takes place, the better off, everyone will even be as individuals, because I mean I'm looking forward to the two you all talk on Thursday. Just because I want to know what that's going to look like like, you know, I would also agree you know there's. I think we have now rebranded ourselves or we labeled ourselves the equity coalition but there's so many of us you know there's, you know, Seema is right like I met Seema many moons ago now. I don't know where, but like many moons ago, we worked together over the years, facilitating so much change in conversation and thoughts around, you know, how can we make this field that we love, right. So that's the other thing. This is why one of the things I talked about is making sure that we center our joy, because I don't want to see there be a continued. You know, this long line of people that keep saying like I'm going to leave the field, or I can't do this work or this work is not sustainable. That to me is why this work is so important and these types of conversations are important, because we need to be increasing our awareness, not, you know, ignoring the fact that because of white supremacy and institutional racism, some of these environments are so hostile or so unwelcoming that BIPOC folks can't speak to their joy. This is a to me this is passion work. I think it's really important that we have the collectives to to continue to facilitate the change, but also to be a source of support for one another to sustain our joy, like I don't want to be. And this quote just of the day I wish I had written it down but it said essentially something like basically rage cannot sustain you. Over time, rage and discontent can inform you, but it cannot sustain you right. And so that's why I always try to come back to the place of joy. Because joy is the is the kind of resistance, it is the thing that is central to me understanding the why of why I do this work why cultural heritage is so critical for me is because I love it, and I don't want the thing that I love to now be so fraught or so tense that I feel like I can't survive in it or I can't thrive in it. So when I see Seema, when I read the things that Seema is writing you know her brilliant scholarship, all of her brilliant things with, you know, Stephanie and all of those, you know, all of those of us who are in, you know, the inclusion museums and raise mass action all of this sort of collective work. That is what sustains me being able to be amongst people who genuinely are passionate about this work. I love to talk about the field and about cultural heritage. I guess the other thing I want to say is, you know, going back to this notion of the credential. I think at the field of librarianship and the fact that libraries have done a really good job of, of making sure that that that credential has shared value. I feel like all librarians understand the value of that credential. Yes, it might be a barrier to entry for some, but there's still like some shared value in that credential that is not questioned. And so I feel like there's a lot of ways that they have been able to. I don't know what the word is but like for lack of a better word like the messaging around their credential is shared. So there's no question about it. I think there's still some question about that in our field and in our respective disciplines about that credential and again professionalization and what does it mean to be a professional. You know, the joy thing is also it makes me think of passion to, you know, I mean, some of the most I've been thinking a lot about what has brought me joy and work. And so often it's about meeting with my colleagues and then I will say, we don't have an onsite conservation team so our conservators are in private practice. And there was a moment, and it was in like the dead of winter in Northeast Ohio and we were in the galleries. We were just learning to be with other people and we were with objects and we were finding joy and passion around objects and really our field and if you want to find joy, I can think of, I can't even count the number of wonderful conversations I've had with conservators around objects, like literally standing around an object and being like, you know, and the moments that reminds me of what a passionate group of people that is and how we're we all come together around these objects. What frustrates me and that joy is so good what frustrates me is so much of what happens. That's bad is that we forget that we're all around those objects that we're here for those objects and stories as objects hold the people that are part of those objects. And so what we do is we allow things that are really negativity to hide the joy and the passion that we have and if we can center that oftentimes a lot of these like little things that you know like she said in the wrong way or you know, text during meetings or whatever it is if you can find ways to get around that, you can focus on that joy, you really get, you just really can hone in on the work. And I think that is a way that all of us can move forward. So instead of thinking about the fight about credentialing or the best, you can send her back on that. You probably can find this common ground. It's really worked for us in the last few months in our organization which is really focused on the object in the goal and coming to common language and the joy of it the happiness of it. And it really can feel you. I was just gonna say that's really helpful and sort of kind of breaking through the noise of what can feel like doing this work sometimes it can be really overwhelming and so I appreciate just kind of that like going back to the basics like why are we here what are our goals and and what brings us together in this work. I was just going to say I saw one of the questions in the Q&A around how do we bring awareness around our respective profession, like as you know this work as a career. And I will say that you know this this to me is part of that loop around the joy as resistance as well as we have to move forward to form different collectives and coalitions to facilitate the change, because again I don't want to see this like, you know, this, this bleeding out of BIPOC, I'm sorry for this horrible expression but a BIPOC museum and cultural heritage professionals, I want to see an increase, and I want to see an increase because I want people to understand that this is not a viable profession as any other profession that it actually is a profession. You know I was in college earning a graduate degree. And having been in museums of all types my entire life is statically loving museums and had not even considered museum work as an actual profession, until I worked alongside these brilliant museum professionals and scholars and I was like I want to do what they're doing, why and how are they doing this thing. And I was like a graduate student before I actually even considered museums and the cultural heritage sector as an actual profession. So that actually is some of the work that I want to see executed in different ways. I know that historically there have been all kinds of fellowships and programs and initiatives. I still feel like there's there needs to be something more that needs to be done to really push the fact that this work is not only powerful and creative and innovative, but that you can actually thrive in this field. I will say though with a caveat that we really need to have a collective conversation about the fact that many of us are credentialed in varying ways or we have a knowledge skill set that we are not being paid well for so I will put that on the table. I don't want to be out here telling people oh join museums, particularly people of color. And they work they're working so hard they're having all this you know they're obtaining all the acquiring all this specialized knowledge, and then our field is not paying people what they are worth. All of us, everything that we do, we should be paid well for the things that we do, especially when we consider that we have museum directors who are making hundreds of thousands, if not in some cases, a million dollars to do the things that many of us who are you know the daily museum workers. They don't even know how to do, you know I'm saying like, so I will just go ahead and put that on tip I will end my rant there, because this is my rant. We should be promoting our field and our disciplines, but we should also be really working on and talking about the ways in which we should be paying people and paying them well to do this work so that we can continue to have a good retention project, but as well as the fact that we really have to think about why are we paying certain directors 700 800 900 thousand dollars. You know, I have not ever worked as a museum director. Yes, I want to be compensated and compensated well, but I would imagine that if I were making almost a million dollars, and I have hard working, brilliant museum professionals who are earning 3040 $50,000. There's no equity there. And so if you are leading an institution and you're saying that you want to do, you know you want to lead DIA efforts, and you have a salary like that that is completely not equitable, then you actually don't believe in that work. So I will end my soapbox there. We can talk about salaries forever I mean that's a you know unpaid internships are prerequisite at this point for conservation jobs that discussion we're having that is changing but it is not gone and so yes absolutely we need to address. Because the question is, you know, and Dr right you asked us in your first 15 minutes of like why don't we have the support for conservators from marginalized communities and part of it really comes down to money so that is, you know, truly something we can talk about forever. But thinking, every time you say I want to diversify my staff you need to be asking why isn't my staff already diversified. Because those really go hand in hand we have not just a pipeline problem but we have a retention problem people come and they don't want to stay. So, you know, I just want to make sure we say that really clearly, but I will add in terms of this idea of collective care and collect, you know, collect collective building capacity building. Just this morning, the equity inclusion posted about new BIPOC affinity group. I'm posting about it in the chat. It is for people who identify as black indigenous for people of color it is, you know, just limited to people who identify in that way personally you know we do want to be working to be supporting supporting different types of identity that we're not finding support for in conservation. We've previously a few weeks ago also announced the rainbow caucus for anyone who I gen and identifies as LGBTQ plus so you can find that around the same website so I just want to make sure we draw attention to the support systems that we currently are building, you know we just announced it this is existed before in this normal level, and it'll take all of us to sort of create that level of support. So I just wanted to make sure everyone sees that but you know as we're wrapping up the time has just like gone by. So I just wanted to end looking towards the future. I've got a question about how you've all spent a lot of time on these issues. And so what does the vision of your dreams look like and who do you dream with and find sort of a sense of that just on this panel. But if you wanted to kind of talk about that head on and appreciate it. I think your affinity group you said something and I didn't, I don't know. We all have to foster it. And I didn't know if you meant we all meaning people of color, or the whole world but my vision of the future is the whole world works together to foster a better together. So, like, like we wouldn't five years from now have a conversation where institutions that are based in either, you know, like cultural practice like, you know, or racial practice or black history museum, or a museum about some, you know, some faith system has vastly less than an institution that is was largely founded white by white people. And that only happens if all of us work together so actually the your, you know, your affinity group will be best done if people who are not in the infinity group also foster it. So my future is a place where we all foster a better future together, even if our past was slightly different and even our past future is likely different. Well, I don't know how to even respond to that. Again, I feel like I feel really fortunate to have in the last like eight plus years, been able to collectively dream with people like Seema and Rose Pacquet and Alicia Whitman of the museum, and I have the visitors of color. Elizabeth Callahan, Anissa Anwar, all the brilliant people that are working and leading mass action. That has been my joy to be able to dream collectively over these last several years with people who have the same shared value and vision for a truly equitable world and a truly racially equitable world. You know, one of the people that I follow is Tricia or Tricia, I was her name wrong, Hershey of the NAP Ministry. I've been following her for a long time, but it really hasn't been until the last year or so, where she's really started to connect this idea about the ways in which to all practice community care and rest, because the rest brings about the dream state and the dream state brings about the possibility and realm for what the ways in which we can dream about liberation and actual freedom and have the creativity to build the goals that we want. So I would encourage everyone to start to read and follow the NAP Ministry. And like I said, that's what I do on a personal level is I'm starting to think about and practice self care differently, and also think about and practice community care in different ways and I will say that we're going to end I know we're out of time. Because when I initially started doing this work is particularly as a black woman, it took a lot out of me psychologically and emotionally and physically it was extremely draining. And all I wanted to do was change everything and, you know, make the world a better place and you really make everyone be passionate about museums. This is why I connected with people like Seema and all the other folks that I named, because it was wearing me down to try and do this in my one little corner of the world by myself. But I began to grow stronger when I was able to be able to be a part of that collective. And so I would, I would argue that what I would like to see is just a recognition that institutional and systemic racism are very real things, just a basic acknowledgement of it, and then a work, a working to unpack it to learn to dismantle whatever those words are, so that we can get to the next place, so that we can like Seema said the next 510 years be moved on to a completely different thing won't have to keep talking about all of these different issues won't have to keep reading open letters won't have to keep saying like people leave our discipline, because we refuse to fix these problems. So I don't know I just feel like for me the dreaming is the joy of the dreaming at least is being able to dream as a part of a collective and so I would again I'm so grateful to see the affinity groups, and I would encourage everyone to start their own studies and start their reading circles and begin to learn more and unlearn so that we can continue to have some vitality in our discipline. Thank you so much. That that always brings me back, thinking about a collective to Adrian Murray Brown in her great book Emergent Strategy she talks about birds flocking, and you have a bird that's leading and, you know, then the bird will switch to be a slower so it can rest while the and another bird takes over and I, as we think we have to talk so much about leadership and leading but rest and take you know, avoiding like burnout and and also kind of working as a collective is just as important I think that's a great place to leave us. So a big thank you to our speakers to Seema to Stephanie to Dr portion more for sharing so much with us for giving so much of your time we know that you are asked to be in many zoom rooms at once and so we really appreciate you giving us so much of your time today. And thank you to our audience for all of your questions and your comments your insights and for engaging with our conversation and making it feel dynamic and not like I'm staring at a screen for two hours so thank you all for being part of this. A big thanks to the Getty Conservation Institute for sponsoring this session. If you have loved talking about implicit bias but want to continue the discussion will be talking more tomorrow. The equity inclusion committee is giving a talk during the opening general session of the conference at noon Eastern with the talk entitled, are you biased, I am, and hopefully that will resonate as well as we continue this discussion so please do join us and again thank you all for sharing and a big thank you to our speakers. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye Seema. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks everyone.