 explain and next conversation is about regional security. And we know that a constitution amendment bill is actually giving life to state security outfits and if this you know passes all the necessary checks in the House of Reps. We know that definitely regional security outputs like港 Word Härtikw hen Eibw Bergw will get all the legal backing a we have invited one of our guests here to speak about this as a founder of the African Law Foundation, Ukiri Ke Chinwi Ke, good morning Mr Chinwi Ke. Good morning to you. So let's begin with the state of security in Nigeria and the importance of regional security outfits. How would you rate the importance of us having regional security outfits like Amoteco a Ibu Bagw to complement the efforts of the police and other security outfits in the country. Thank you very much for having me. To frank with you, this is a right step being taken by the National Assembly because under the second schedule of the constitution there is the legislative powers, the federal government has the legislative power to, under item 45, to restrict on police and other government security services established by law. So, before now there have been a general problem for the state security, I've said police, which is one of the major issues that come in up from the recent National Assembly, the National Review conferences within the state and the region. So it is a good effort and because obviously the federal government has been the police and the state security actors are overwhelmed by the challenges of securities we are having currently. Bringing up a legal framework to support Amatukun and Ibu Bagw is a right thinking in the right direction and everybody should support that because I think that is the only way we can improve security. We have to localize security. We have to have a bottom up approach and that is actually what the Amatukun and Ibu Bagw is trying to provide that the security of the people who can only be guaranteed by the people and where you have such structure, you are trying to use our normal community security establishment, structure it in a way and give it a harmonized in a way that it will go on and serve to a larger estate and bridge the cab being provided by lack of some international questions from the state actors. So it is a welcome development and we hope that it will pass and have you see the light of the day at the end and as you know it is welcome. We appreciate that effort and everybody should support that. I want you to speak a little bit more on what powers legal backing gives these regional security outfits. Does it enable them to carry weapons or what more strength does it give them and will that really be the answer? If you've had your own analysis on our security challenges across the country from banditry to the headsmen to the kidnapping, the Boko Haram and the likes, will these security outfits be able to make any actual difference or change with this legal backing? Does a legal backing of course, what level of power does it give them? Struggling with the network there for Mr O'Kirrigach in the UK. Of course the conversation is on regional security outfits, maybe also extended into state policing. Will that really be the answer? Now that the lawmakers have of course decided that they might be given them full backing, will that change much with regards to our security situation in the country? The southeast governors have been criticized if you have been following conversations with regards to the security situation in the southeast. And with the police saying they're overwhelmed? Yes, they've been criticized mostly because of the setting up of Ibu Boyagu and then it seemed like they set it up and they went to sleep. So you set it up, what have they done? In what ways have they saved lives? In what ways have they protected government facilities, ionic offices and police stations and all of that? So would it be that Ibu Boyagu was not able to function to the fullest of its capability? Because of the lack of legal backing? Absolutely and same thing with Amotec, is it the legal backing that has stopped it from functioning? If they get it, what next? Will they maybe be able to do better in every region? And does this mean that every other region, every other state, every other local government can have that authority to create their own security vigilante groups? Will they be allowed to spring up here and there? I think the focus of this conversation should be about regulation because I remember in January 2021 those outcry in all your state protests over how Amoteco operatives allegedly shot a man to death. So we need to really have conversations about would they be licensed to carry arms? How would your activities be related? How would they work in synergy with other law enforcement agencies in the country? We have Mr Tumiki back online. Thanks for joining us again. Please continue with your thoughts there. Thank you. Sorry for that direct switch. Obviously there is need to have a legal framework and a regulatory framework because of the nature of what we are talking about. But before now, most of states, like in any other state in Ambrastec, have already had a legal framework a vigilante group in which the state has created and brought out a numbering law for them to function and in which they work together with the Nigerian police. So Ambrastec has already had a legal framework that the great activities of vigilantes working together with the Nigerian police before now and it has been very much successful. And we see the community members, community members which you know will place the vex, the vigilante groups from among the states and contribute in their payments and other things. And the state government will also provide vehicle and all the other arms for them. And they have been doing very well. They have been supervised, been taken by the Nigerian police who is actually a kind of the supervising agency for the vigilantes. So that kind of system is actually what I think by this legislation by courts by the National Assembly can prove very well for us, have a security service commission that will generally be that will harmonize all these vigilantes and the other which I will name, you give it, Ambrastecum or whatever name because under the I-1045 of a string tool invasive list of the constitution, the law empowers the National Assembly alone to register on police and other government security services established by law. So which means that they, for the state vigilantes to have the full question authority to function, they need to have the state team back from the National Assembly, giving them that necessary laboratory framework to function very well. So as I said it is very very important this is coming up and it is going to have to have a bottom up approach to security security provision of security in Nigeria. Obviously the state actors are not doing well. There is a good cap, the efficiencies are all over there. So we have the security from the communities which is actually, which is what Ambrastecum and Ambrastecum and Ambrastecum is all made up, is going to be a kind of a challenge and no solution that we are looking for to ensure adequate security for Nigeria and I think this is very important. All right, I think. Yeah, so I just wanted to quickly say that in a situation where the police complain of underfunding needing fuel to fuel the money to fuel the vehicles and all of that, we hope that we're not biting more than we can chew in the sense that we have enough budgetary allocation for these security outfits that will now be getting legal back in because they cannot put it on our funds, can they? Well, I think they're going to be state funded. So yeah, they're going to be state funded. So you weren't putting about this, it's actually going to be state funded. Don't fret with you, if you remove the state's support to Nigeria Police, then we have failed both of them before now. If you take it out most of the infrastructure of Nigeria Police now is a federal government that comes from the state. So what is going to happen is that instead we put almost most of those support to this regional security network because of the committed level of producing it is bringing. Would you also suggest, sorry, a final question because we need to go, would you do you think it's a good time that we maybe should start to have conversations about redirecting security votes that governors receive? We should maybe legalize and have a proper framework with regard to security votes and redirect that into state policing and for these outfits. Yeah, I think that this is where there needs to actually define the purpose of that security vote. Yeah. No, Georgia's talking about money, bonanza to them. Now they need to be a security vote made for for this service of this state security and the even if it's half of that money is being projected to support the community level policing. We're going to have a lot to benefit from that. So it's a very good idea and I believe that those behind it are thinking well and it is something we need to support and that we're going to help us to improve security and that's what at the community level. We have most of those decisions happening. All right. Ok Rukie Chinwike, thank you very much for joining us this morning and good morning to you. Thank you very much. All right. Yeah, thank you. Sorry for the it happens. Thank you very much. I would once again like that we bring back the security vote conversation on this platform and have an extended conversation about it. It is undocumented governors do not have to declare what those ones are used for and that is very, very unfair. If you continue to receive millions and millions hundreds of millions of nai every month it should be properly audited and not just like a bonanza like he described every month. That should be where the support for original security officials come from vigilante groups funding for vehicles, for research, for what research on their level. Absolutely. And what continuing conversation regarding security was a declaration by the IGP and tinted glasses basically in the country to stay with us.