 You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. I picked the kids up from school and we just went. I had some friends that were like, I've got a place to go, we just went there and they just put it out. Probably it's been the toughest period of my life by any stretch of the imagination but I think I'm just in a place where I can speak now. When those guys were chasing me down a road with those knives and all that kind of stuff and they're baying for my blood, they're like, we just want to get you, we just want you out of here, the industry is exactly the same. I don't need to answer that, we know the answer to that, we know the answer to that. And then I start seeing my harasser, my convicted harasser, the guy that's been harrassing my family for 10 years and putting out this narrative that I've been bullying him like, right. And I don't know why I've let this go for all this time but I have done. Getting the phone call from the Guardian, there wasn't just one accusation, it was 20. I tried to paint you as a Harvey Weinstein character. I can hold my hands up and go, ah, do you know what, did you ever say something inappropriate to that person? Yeah, maybe, or did you, you know, have you ever, in your years, have you ever tried your luck with someone? Yeah, maybe, do you know what I mean? That doesn't make you a sexual predator. I carried the knife in my pocket for like 6 weeks and then one day I was just like, yeah, this is the day. I think they were going for a walk or whatever and I was like, yeah, this is the day. What about with Ashley Walters, who you've worked with through the years, who you've been tight with? How did that go with him? Did he have your back? He did not. Boomer on. And today's guest, we've got Noel Clark. Noel. How are you brother? I'm okay man, how you doing? Yeah, good, thanks. First and foremost, thanks for coming on the show. Thanks for having me. Phenomenal career, actor, director, producer. Yeah. You've done it all man, brought blockbuster films. Yeah. Coming from nowhere and to being one of the most successful actors, writers, Britain's produced from such a young age as well. You won a BAFTA, that kind of life seemed to be at the top. You seem to be everything, 20 years of hard work seemed to have been unlocking all the doors. But then, as soon as you win that BAFTA bang, the dark clouds come over. Yeah. Accusations left right in the centre, 20 accusations, all nasty stuff which we'll touch on. But first and foremost, how are you? I'm alright. I'm alright man. Yeah. I'm getting some grades in the biz. Yeah, I'm okay. It's been tough. It's been a whirlwind. It's been probably the toughest period of my life by any stretch of the imagination. But I think I'm just in a place where I can speak now. Fair play. Every man deserves a chance to speak. Yeah, I've not had that weirdly. Surprising that. This is a perfect platform to do so. But before we get into everything, I'll go back to the start of my guests. Get about understanding about you, where you grew up, how it all began. Yeah, so I grew up in Lava Grove, which is now is labelled all part of Notting Hill. But I grew up in the Grenfell Tower bit, which if people know, is still quite an underfunded area. Everyone knows about the Grenfell Tower fight, right? And everybody sits there baffled about how that particular area can be one of the most underfunded in the country, sitting within the richest bar in Europe. So can you imagine when I grew up there, it was not like a walk in the park. It was a pretty rough area. You know, it was just riots every year. It kind of all, there was fights all the time. My friends were just doing... My friends were just doing... As I grew up, for some reason, I was just kind of... You know, I liked comics. I liked movies. I was like sort of... It's so hard to describe because I was kind of like the nerd kid, but I was still one of them. You know what I mean? So I was the one that didn't want to... And as we grew up, I was the one that kind of didn't want to rob and didn't want to do that kind of stuff. But I was the one where, you know... A lot of my friends were stabbing, robbing, occasionally shooting, doing bad shit, going to jail. And I was the one that not only didn't want to do it, but I could tell them. And I don't know why. You know, one of my friends who got a 25-year sentence said to me, I wish I had had your strength. And I'm like, I said to me, it wasn't strength. I don't know why I was like that. I don't know why I was called the coward, but yeah, I was like that. Can you imagine this, right? So you're the guy that doesn't want to rob, doesn't want to shoot, doesn't want to stab, doesn't want to smash and grab, doesn't want to do all that stuff. And you're able to tell your friends you don't want to do it, but you're the coward. That made that make sense. You know what I mean? And now we're all older. They're like, man, you are so strong. And I'm like, it wasn't strength. I don't know why I was like that. I've just always been one of those people that is maybe defiant or maybe kind of, I just knew what I didn't want to do. But the area where I grew up in was like, was just, was just bad. You know, if your friend, you know, you couldn't really have friends because your friends were all part of that same sort of world. And if your friends looked at you and be like, yo, I like your shoes. They didn't like your shoes. They wanted your shoes. And you had to be able to be like, I'm glad you like them, but you're not having it. You know what I mean? But it's peer pressures in those areas, same as Glasgow. I always portrayed myself as a clown because I didn't want to be angry. I could act that part and pretend. But when you go down that route, then I had to take drinking drugs to then give me confidence to be angry or be something that I wasn't. And when that boy who's doing 25 years saying it's a strength, it's a strength to say no. It's a strength to say I don't want to be the same as everybody else. You're right. But it's, I guess what I mean is like, I didn't see it as a strength because I didn't know why I was doing it. I just knew like I'm not doing that. And you ain't, and you're not making me do that. And so when you say like, you had to take all those things to be angry, I was angry. I was like, have you ever seen the Avengers where the first Avengers where they go to Hulk at the, you know, near the end for the battle? Come on, you're going to turn into Hulk. And, you know, come on, what's your secret? And he goes, that is my secret. I'm always angry. It's like, I was always ready to go. Like I was one of them. They're like, let's rob these guys. I'm like, why? I don't want to do that. You know, I remember one time some guy wouldn't move out of my cousins. It's when we're teenagers, like 16 or whatever, some guy wouldn't move out of my cousins flat. So, you know, standard thing comes around like, yo, this guy doesn't want to move out of my place. Can we go deal with him? Boom. All jump in the car. And it's like a movie. We all jump in the car. We get there. And we're about to roll upstairs and deal with this guy. And one of my friends goes, no, you stay here. You stay downstairs. And I'm like, why? And he says, because you're the only one we think could probably get out of this. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, you're just the, you're the one that I think, you know, there's better for you. Let us do it. And, you know, then we can go back home. And I was like, I want to come. I want to come. But not only was I sort of generally the coward, the times when I maybe did want to, they kind of just knew. Some of them knew like, now you're the one we think can get out of this life. They could see it as well. Like in Goodwill Hunting where they say, you know, to Matt Damon, you're the one that can, I don't know. And it wasn't strength for me. I don't know. I'm just defiant. I'm a disruptor. Why is that? Does that come from my mom or dad? Well, dad wasn't really, it's my mom. My mom came to this country in 69. She studied nursing. She was asked things like that. She live in trees. She was asked, she was called monkey. She was called everything under the sun. And she was the only one. And she wasn't one of the only back nurses because there's a lot, but she was very light skin. So like people like half breed, like all sorts of every sort of thing you could imagine. And I guess she became defiant. She put up like this shield and she became defiant. She's still to this day a defiant woman. And I think it's come from her. It just came from her. And it wasn't like taught. It was absorbed. Do you know what I mean? It's just like, I saw how, I guess I saw how she was. And so when friends of mine were like, let's rub these guys. I remember one Halloween, I did rub some guys and I felt so bad. I took the stuff back. We spent half the night looking for them to take the stuff back because I was like, it's not me. It's just not me. And so that was who I was. And then he said, let's do this. I'm not doing it. And you can't make me. Who really at school? Average. Not very, not very academic. I was more into comics and films. And I just, it's interesting. Because, you know, one of my boys and I, we just sort of diagnosed with dyslexia and slight attention things. Yeah, slight. I can't, it's not, it's not something. But my mom says I'm most like him. And when I look at the things he does and he drives me nuts, man. The fire. I think to myself, that's me. I don't tell him. And obviously I'm like, you listen to me, boy. I don't tell him. But I'm like, that's me. And I do, I do wonder because I was told a lot as I got older. I think you're on the spectrum. I think you're on the spectrum. But I've not been diagnosed with anything. See, we are comics and stuff. Did you have to hide that from your friends? Or the potential could have been flagged off on the day and all. I think, yeah, they knew because again, and this is where he says it's strength. And I'm not strength. If someone said, ah, you've got comics and I'm not going to be fun. So what? And then they would be like, ah, I'll be like, so what? And then they kind of like, you take the, they take the power away from them. Do you know what I mean? And the people were like, sometimes there were occasions where, you know, people would be like, bro, come on, man, let's do this. Let's do this. Let's do that. And I'm like, I'm not doing it. Bro, you know what? If you, if you're not doing that, then I don't see why you should even be with us. I'm like, cool. I got toys and comics on Nintendo. I'll just go home then. I was never, I think that's the key thing for me. I was never afraid to be on my own. If you're never afraid to be on your own and no one's got power over you, peer pressure doesn't work on you because I'm like, I can just go home and play Super Mario on Nintendo and sit there. I sit there all day. I don't need to be out here with you pretending to, pretending to smoke or whatever like that. I don't smoke. I don't drink. I don't, don't do drugs. I've never touched any of that. When all my friends started doing that stuff, I didn't do any of it. Never did. See, I needed to be around people. I needed people there. I needed new girlfriend and I needed new friends. I could party with anybody. I just needed to feel part of something. And then it's not to my later years where I'm getting more attention and ever, but I'm more of a recluse. Yeah. Was your comics and stuff, was that how your creative mind started? I guess. Like kind of visualization and how you ended up in the gym that you ended up on? Yeah, my mum worked a lot. Right. So my dad, you know, it'll be fuming because like he's the best, he's the best granddad. And I'll say that he's the best granddad. Like my boys love him, but, you know, he just weren't there. Like he can't, you know, he's got his own, what do they call it? He's got his own reality now, but he weren't there. Right. So my mum, my comic, my mum worked a lot. So from a young age, I was going to school on my own like from seven. I've got a seven year old now. I wouldn't send them up the road to St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. St. from about seven or eight I knew what I wanted to do because I just look at tv like that and read my comics and it's like I knew what I wanted to do and and that's just who I was and at the same time you know when I was with my friends when they were like doing bad shit I just I could always go back to that I could always go back to that go and watch wrestling playing Nintendo um and and read comics and these are all things again going back to possibly spectrum-y stuff these are all things I still do like I still read comics I still love films I still I still play video games and I still watch wrestling to this day exactly can I skate for you what for that stuff like a pump up blanket yeah yeah I think with patterns it's with patterns you know I've done therapy now with patterns it's it's comfort isn't it it's a pattern so like sometimes I you know I'm a WWE guy I watch it consistently I've watched it for 30 years now sometimes I'm not even watching it but I'm watching it I'll be writing a script and it's just there in the background it's like it's like comfort for me because when I was a little boy mum was working later I come on switch on the tv it's interesting because when I went to therapy and I spoke to them I said to them I was always on my own always on my own and they said well what did you do I said come on turn on the tv and blah blah and to this day whenever I travel I go to a hotel room the first thing I do is turn on the tv and the therapist said well I challenge you that you weren't always alone I said you're talking about I said I was alone all the time I said but you're a grown man now and still the first thing you do when you go into a hotel room is turn on the tv why'd you do that I was like boom it's comfort it's comfort blanket it's because when I was alone at home my mum wasn't there I'll turn the tv on so I wasn't alone films and tv and those things were in my ear just in the background and to this day I can't work in silence if I'm at home writing a script or whatever like that I cannot work in silence if the kids are running around or if the tv's on I'm cool but if it's silent it drives me mad how hard was it with your dad not being alone very very just every you know you go around to other people's go around to other people's houses and their dads are there and you're just kind of like why is mine not there we do sports day and it's a dad's race and and you gotta run with Mrs. Battersby do you know what I mean who's 94 years old and can't run and you come last and then so you start it shaped me in a way that it's sorry I don't want my nose it shaped me in a way that I find it hard to articulate but I know it did because when I became a dad I won every sports day race every time there was a dad's race at sports day I won it and I'd be like son I won the race son but I'll put a flight saying care but it wasn't what I've understood now wasn't about them it was about me because my dad didn't do any sports day races he was never there so when I had kids I won every race thinking it was for them I'm here I'm here son look I'm here but now knowing inside free therapy actually was kind of from me okay the fulfillment a fulfillment but also like showing your kid showing your son that I'm here do you know what I mean when did you get into acting why when as I said it was just something I always wanted to do and then we go to and then I also did physical physical education so I followed that route through you know PE and A level PE and then and then I worked in the gym you know I was a hustler around the area I was a hustler as well what I mean by that is I basically I learned very early on like wait hold on so you know like buy one get one free like so I realized that if I didn't want to rob people I didn't want to do what my friends are doing I didn't want to end up in jail like they were then I had to find new ways to get things so I was like well I'm going to earn them and I heard that if you worked in the local sports and they would always help you out like because they wanted to help people in the community so if you worked in there and then you wanted to progress they would pay for half of whatever you wanted to do so I was like so hold on so if I need 100 pounds to pay for a course they'll pay 50 pounds of it and then I can still earn and buy my trainers whatever yeah so I was like cool so I started working in the sports center at first I was just doing a bit of cleaning right and and trust me it's not something that you you want to do I'm not I didn't want to do that but I thought it's a way in then it was the the water slide attendant you know I took that very seriously water slide attendant you're like wait go go do you know what I mean so I did that and but my goal was always like getting the gym and then they paid for half my lifeguarding course so I did my lifeguarding course then I was a lifeguard for a lot of years then they paid for half my gym instructor course and I was a gym instructor then I was a trainer and that was always my goal so I was doing that on the side and then in that gym I met someone who was a director and they gave me an opportunity by this point I'm like 20 and they gave me an opportunity to audition to for something and I auditioned for that that wrong um metrosexuality in I don't remember what year 97 98 and I got that job and that's how the acting that's how the acting came through but in the sports center man I was just like I'm just gonna work I'm just gonna work I just wanted to earn everything I just wanted to earn everything like I didn't want to rob or anything like that you know you have it you're mainly you're doing acting whether you wanted the goals it just again something to just keep busy keep away from the bad stuff or did you have a vision that you were going to be something did you have that belief ingrained in you from your mum was she ever ingrained that into you or did you see her struggle what she went through and how hard it was in there the second probably I saw I saw how hard the struggle was I saw it was like just us and I saw this the struggle when you're from where I'm from there's a level of self-belief and self-confidence you have to have to survive if you don't have that you should come to the peer pressure and you end up like a lot of my friends right I had to have confidence to say I'm not doing that I'm not doing this and so that level of self-belief and self-confidence is something I've taken with me it's plagued me my whole life because people always like so arrogant it's like so fucking what like mind your business but for me I never saw it as arrogant and I don't think I'm arrogant because I've never believed I'm better than anybody I've never believed I'm better than any other human being in the world I treat billionaires the same way I treat waiters like I don't I'm nice to everyone I meet like as far as I'm concerned you fall out with people short whatever but I'm nice to everyone I meet right but there's a level of self-confidence a self-belief you have to have when I started acting I told the guy that got me started I said I'm gonna be the best no one's gonna stop me I'm gonna be the best and he said well you have to move to America I said no I said I'm gonna I'm gonna stay here so I'm around my mom I'm gonna stay here and I'm gonna get to the top in this country and this was this is you're talking 1997 he'll probably remember this conversation I told him I'm gonna be the best I believe I can be the best doesn't believe don't mean I'm better than any other human but I know my work ethic I know how I hustle I know how I take opportunities and so I'm going to be the best here and I believe that you can't say that and not believe it how many roles did you play before you got a part of Doctor Who so I started in 2000 Doctor Who was 2000 and we shot it in 2004 so I played a few roles like oh I tell you a big role I did RV the same pet was a big one I'd done but before that it was just small yeah small few small roles and you know but by that point I was writing because again with the being socially kind of smart if not academically when I got into acting within a few months I realized you know I've said I'm gonna be the best but I realized I'm not gonna get where I want to get I can I can just tell there's this maybe my spectromy stuff you know I'm self-diagnosing but something was telling me like you can't get where you want to get because there's barriers here so you have to find a different way what sort of bad is I could just see it the roles I was going for were like robber number three and you know thief number four or you know tight row and or whatever there were certain roles that you know when I was like well I want to be I want to be James well you can't be James because James is James it says James brown hair and brown eyes well yeah but can't they just why can't I be James they can change that wouldn't they can't change it like it was very so I was like I don't get that I'm just gonna start writing my own I'm just gonna start writing my own shit you know I mean so in the background I was writing a film that was based on where I grew up and was based on my area I just started writing and and and again with the writing I've never written a script in my life I mean I've done a level media in college and all that but so what I did was was I went to there's a bookshop called books etc before waterstones and I went to books etc and I bought every screenplay they had in there every screenplay American beauty clerks chasing Amy you know memento almost famous every screenplay and I sat down and read them all read them all sat in my room played them all out and read them all and just sort of started seeing the patterns okay this film's different to this film but still at 25 pages something at 10 pages something happens here and that kicks off the story and I just read them all just read them all but I just bought them I just bought them all and I read them and read them and then I started writing. I wrote a few things before that um that I've never seen the light of day but kiddo was was the one I was just working on here how long did it take to read well the first 40 pages were like two days because it was one of those ones where I'd been thinking about it for a while it was people I knew it was the area I knew is where I grew up and I just remember getting up one day like three o'clock in the morning and just sitting down and writing and I wrote like 40 pages and then I wrote 40 pages like yeah this is easy and then I was like fuck I'm stuck then it took me a few months to work out the rest so even you're doing right now skip forward I'm over here that especially if it's your first one there's things just come to you through the day through your sleep sitting in the toilet yeah what if you're in Maine how does it work my mind's like that I just get inspired by the the way I could be sitting on the tube and and see I could be sitting on the tube and see someone over here in there and I'll just think about half day how did that happen they born like that did happen and then my mind goes off my mind works like that but with kiddo it was like that was so you know I can't you know people people think they know me people don't know me man you know I wasn't as I said I wasn't like my friends but you know I was I had friends of mine that were getting you know you left school and people just rolled up in cars and attacked them with bats and stabbed them in the eyes of with standing knives I had friends that you know I worked with that stepped on trainers in clubs and got shot like I was I was chased by 30 fucking well they thought they were triads but I don't know what you know outside hippodrome with knives and machetes do you know what I mean like down the road and had to run me and my friends had to run and then I still called them up and I met them the next day I said come meet me the next day then if you're back and then they were like what and only one of them came and it was me and this guy sitting there and I'm like you chase me with knives and what and he was like nah bro there's this and now we think you did this we think you did that and we heard this and we heard that it's the story of my life we heard this we heard that and you know what I mean but now that I'm sitting opposite you I think we would probably get on I said well I don't want to get on I just don't want to be chased by your guys with knives and stuff like that and we never never bothered each other again but I don't know why I did that why would you do that this is who this is this is who who I am though I don't know like the night before those guys chased me down a road and I was just fuming I was like I told this girl I know I'm like you call them up you tell them I'm meeting and I went why did I do that I can't explain it to you but that's just kind of sometimes who I feel I am I'm impulsive and so you know kiddohood was based on stuff that I knew see me get called up for Dr Hula what was a process to get on the right let's say one of the biggest shows in the UK it was just a standard just acting just auditioning and it came up and my agent was like do you want to audition for Dr Hula and I remember the last time it was on I was like oh it wasn't great the last time it was on but I knew I was getting that job so I just knew the confidence or whatever people want to label it I knew I was getting that job there there was no way I wasn't getting that job do you know what I mean like you can never know but I'm like I'm getting this job I'm getting this job same as when I did I'll be the same pet with all those big actors I'm getting this job and I went into Dr Who and and and I got a job and interestingly you know going back to what I said earlier about you know and obviously there's people that would dispute this but going back to what I said earlier about being nice to people a few years before that I'd done one episode a hobby city or two episodes when I just played this character with dies or whatever like that spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen it and the director years ago the director on that job was a guy that I don't know and I'm not you know talking bad about people but it seems like the main cast on the he wasn't having a good time he wasn't having a good time you know I think you know directors just coming in and out of that stuff in some time and I don't know if he was winding people up he wasn't having a good time but I was only there for that episode I got on with him really well I was nice to him and I remember him having a bad time I said you right mate and he said yeah yeah I'm good and you know thanks for asking and all that kind of stuff and when I'm out of my business did my thing episode never saw him again then Dr Who comes up I'm like I'm getting this job I know I'm getting this job you know I don't know what you believe but I'm like I'm getting this job right and I walk into that audition and he's the director he's the director when I do my audition and I smash it out of the park because I knew I'm getting it but when I smashed it at the end I said like thanks for having me see you later and he looks at me and he goes well done and he looks at me well done or winks at me and I'm like I'm getting this job what happens when you get a like a kid from the streets to then be in one of the biggest shows in the UK that how was that feeling did you ever feel accomplished did you ever feel never life was good did you always feel something was missing always this is very interesting I know this is an interesting one because it's something I've worked on in therapy as well is I never celebrated anything why never feel good enough because I don't know because I expected it I've already said I said I was going to be the best so like I didn't celebrate anything I'm like this is I've worked for I've worked for this like I didn't like I didn't go in there and get lucky so it's interesting because when when I was in the process they were talking about depression and talking about the levels of depression and how people get and I was talking about the levels of depression how people get highs and lows and all that kind of stuff and they said do have you ever felt really celebrate stuff I said it's weird I've never celebrated anything all the premiers of my things that I went to I wouldn't really it looked like I celebrate I go to get my picture taken watch a film the moment the film left I barely went to the after parties I was probably not there I don't drink no I wouldn't there I would get a group of close friends and we'd go to a restaurant up the road I'd sit eat and I'd go home never celebrated anything the next morning I was back in the office I never celebrated anything but also I never felt really down about anything like if I didn't get jobs I'd be like fucking so what like I never was super devastated about anything so in therapy we're talking about it I'm talking about the ups and downs of um of depression and I told them they said to me and I said no I've never felt I said I've never celebrated anything really and I never get super down anything and they look at each other like that and look back and they go that's the very definition of depression I'm like what so I don't get that and they're like you're numb you're numb to everything and I never looked at it that way but when I think about it now I think sometimes I was numb to everything I never that's why it didn't bother me about my friend I don't care and I never celebrated like man I don't really know why I just I just think I expected like I said I'm gonna succeed I'm gonna succeed I didn't I didn't when I was growing up I didn't have anything to celebrate anyway so like I didn't I never saw that I wasn't around that my mom did birthday things for me but I wasn't around that it wasn't like I had massive part I did occasionally so I can't fib but it wasn't like I had massive parties all the time and like so I never really had no family here all my mom's sisters are in Toronto or New York so we went out celebrating other people's birthday party like I never I wasn't around that stuff so I never really celebrated anything do you know is that when you do therapy and they tell you you're numb to it does that does that make you feel sad that all the achievements you did have and you never really celebrated them to then be happy from what you're achieving like you've always probably had that pressure or always something that internally missing where you just no matter what you achieved and like if you've never felt no go you could have won an Oscar and you're thinking I wouldn't yeah I would have been like if I'd won an Oscar which I fully believe I would have eventually especially after the one I just got off of what happened didn't happen I would have the next I would have the same thing would happen it's the same thing that would always happen I would have just put it down I'm gonna how do I get the next one and so did it make me feel so ironically it didn't make me feel sad because that's the whole point I didn't really think about it made me go when they told me that in therapy I was like it makes sense it makes sense so like I kind of was like I get it you know and they really broke down about if you've never been around it you never saw it like it I guess it did make me a little bit kind of like yeah why why I never celebrated I never was like man we've done this amazing thing let's have two days off or anything like that next morning back in the office put it on the shelf how do I get another one what's next what's the new goal what else are you gonna tell me I can't do you feel as if you're always trying to prove to someone yeah who I don't know I think like it's interesting you said about wanting to be accepted as like I never cared but I think deep down there was a deep down there was a thing about like I just always wanted to be accepted as who I am don't ask me to rob people I don't just accept me just accept me like I'm your guy that I'll be here with you I'm your mate but if you're gonna go do that don't ask me just go do it I mean don't do it obviously but you know I'm not judging them if you're gonna do that just do it don't ask me to do it and I think I just wanted that accepting subconsciously so when I get into the industry subconsciously you know all I heard all I heard from the beginning was you can't do that oh that you can't do that that won't happen that's all I heard in the industry this one happened that one happened you can't do this you can't do that so I'm like in my mind I'm gonna do everything I'm gonna do everything I literally remember one time coming out of an audition and people going to him oh he's quite intense I will never watch anything he's in just doesn't and I heard that it was one of those lifts where you have to the metal lifts and you have to wait for it and I heard them talking about it I thought oh yeah yeah I will never watch anything he's in you know I hope he doesn't get into the business something something I'm not paraphrasing and in my mind I was like if you're not gonna watch anything I mean you better never buy a television I'm gonna be on everything if you don't want me in your business I'm gonna take over your whole business that was my mindset was always like you're gonna accept me you're going to accept me do you know what I mean and it's that mentality from you know you take that kid who can tell his friends like I ain't doing that and you put him in an office with a movie exec who says your script has to be like this and he goes I ain't doing that same kid same phrase different environment you get labeled difficult you get labeled chippy you get labeled aggressive and you're not you're just surviving is that whole industry like that or did you feel it more being the black kid from London it's not much race involved there's a whole industry just ruthless where people are nasty bastards behind this the latter the latter on top of that I'm then black and I'm working class I'm not one of those guys who holds up the race card like it's class as well it's class as well I'm not just I'm not just black but I'm not a guy that's like I'm not a houseboy I'm not a guy that's just going to do what people say and tell the line and all that so you're kind of you know you're working class as well so you know you you when those guys as a point to this when those guys were chasing me down a road with those knives and all that kind of stuff and blah blah blah they're baying for my blood they're like we just want we just want to get you we just want you out of here we just want the industries exactly the same everyone's vying for that top position everyone wants to take over everyone wants to do this everyone wants to that is exactly the same the difference is these guys will lick you in your eye and tell you we're gonna get you these guys will smile at you and go oh that was wonderful and when you turn your back then they get you that's that's the difference so see when you're in doctor who and then you've produced a kid that was in the same either that was a 2000 same year yeah I didn't produce kid I would just wrote it and and it was in it but yeah that was in that that was in the same year did that help being in doctor who did that open more doors for you um not as much as it would have if I didn't look can sound like me do you know what I mean like it you know you come out of doctor who and you know you you it's interesting it's difficult but you know you come out of doctor who and certain people go become stars and other people it kind of you know and and that does come down to class and it does come down to what you look like and where you're from and and stuff like that but you know if I didn't have kiddo at the time excuse me my career might have stalled after that but because I had kiddo as well that kind of took me off in a different direction yeah so being in doctor who you're expecting more doors to open like because they always mention race they always mention colors and yes and that because were you not one of the first black actors to ever be on doctor yeah the first black companion yeah yeah is that what is that then like as race a massive involvement in this industry or talent or what is it then it's missing the due what is it used well they they pretend it isn't but but it is yeah um but again I didn't care I didn't care like I'm not being one of those guys that's touted this that and the other I've just gone with it because you still go on doctor who still gone yeah do you know what I mean you were on about five years yeah total I did like two seasons and then I was kind of off and came back for one episode and yeah yeah so see when you're in that kind of BBC massive show and then go and do kiddo hood like that's totally different it was a different from like what you ever told don't do that or were you thinking this is the next path I'm going to take I'm just thinking this is what I'm doing like I was never I didn't again comes back to like I didn't care what people told I didn't care what people said hope I don't do this I kind of it I got to her I'm just a weird guy man like I just I'm just a weird guy my my mentality I remember once time um what I mean by that is like I remember one time this is before all of that I did you know when I did Metro sexuality um it was reviewed by someone and the reviewer said I don't remember who it was but the reviewer said this show is so terrible I hope it's the soundtrack has played at the funeral of everyone involved I'm like man that fucking hurt me man it hurt me like but I'm that's here then I'm from where I'm from is like where I'm from is that you hold those you hold that I'm not bro what do you know the funeral no I mean like you know what I mean so I held that I held that and then years later the reviewer died I'm talking like 15 years later maybe more the reviewer died all right and I'm walking down the street and I say oh so and so reviewers died and they've got a picture of them in the thing and I stopped and I said who's fucking funeral and then I went why did you do that no doubt that I'm from him and I realized I held that for 15 years why did I do that do you think that was your main drive in full store rage something I'm telling you yeah the Hulk thing I said to you like I was always like every time I every time someone whispered oh he's not doing that or I'd go to an audition and they know about me they know about you before you go to the audition but they look at your CV and they go well you haven't done any theater darling where's your training and you're like I haven't trained and they just sneer at you and I okay well let's go then and you just think you've mugged me off right at the beginning I'm a young actor you've mugged me off right at the beginning this audition treated me like shit you know I've not done theater because you would be told that by my agent but you've just embarrassed me intentionally I'll sit there and I go you're gonna fucking work for me that was my mentality and maybe they wouldn't but my mentality was like if that's how you're gonna treat me I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna get to the top when they told me they said to me you will never you you well darling you haven't done theater you haven't trained I remember calling my agent at the time I said all I keep hearing is you've not done theater you're not gonna get anywhere because you know you you can't act and this that and the other I said well I want to do theater she was like well darling you know we can we can try and get you into plays and blah blah so did a few little plays that no one really knew about and then I did an oval house play then I got to play in the royal court and then won a Lawrence Olivier award now if you know about theater you know the Lawrence Olivier award in England is is the award you told me I wouldn't you told me I wouldn't get into theater what now that's that was my mentality so I was always driven by people telling me I can't do things it's the same thing as as as my as my dad and you know people saying I'm I'm I'm difficult huh difficult it's not a crime man like I'm let me give you an example of me being difficult and I'm jumping a little bit so we'll go back by giving example of me being difficult um I did this job years later we as into it where my my third my third child had been born I get this job for ITV um and they um not them but the producers or the producers go are there any days he's not available for the shoot and right there's one day in in four months time it's the only one day every other day is cool and they go cool and shoot block one of this show and I said why is he not available oh it's his son's christening shoot block one of this show everything's fine have a week off come back for block two I look at block two on the schedule they got me working on the day that I've asked for that happens call my agent said ah man they got me working on the day you know it's my son's christening so um you know if I could get that off yeah I'll speak to them cause him said no they've scheduled it now so it's going to be very tricky they can't I don't think they can actually do it I said mate it's my son's christening it's not a birthday it's my son's christening I need the day off I'll call them again agent calls him again comes back no it's a big location they've scheduled it they're actually very they're very apologetic but they can't give it I said all right cool put down the phone I walk I walk out my trailer into the production thing the guy's on the phone yeah I said yo put the phone down and he's like I beg your pardon I said put the phone down I call you back puts the phone down I said me this day here is my son's christening I told you that from the beginning of the job yeah you know know it's um it's well it's you know we booked the thing now and I said listen you can film whatever you want on that day I'm going to be at my son's christening I'm just letting you know that so if you want to bring the cameras and film me there you can do that but I'm not going to be here right and I walk out now I look back and I can imagine when I walk down there like you know this guy's so difficult but I didn't think I was being difficult I just thought I was standing up for what I believed in that's just who I am do you know what I mean that's I was just I'm defiant and actually if I believe in something I stand up for it right when I grew up my dad missed everything everything he never come to a sports day never come to a parents evening he never come to he couldn't name him in my girlfriend he missed everything so I miss nothing with my children do you know what I mean I can see how that would be difficult for people but that's just who I am yeah fuck everybody else is well I know that's that's like but what happens is what happens is you get a reputation of being difficult I'm not a different I'm not I'm not a difficult guy do you know or I can be but it's it's these sorts of situations I'm not like there's no producer that can actually go on record and go he was and he was a problem on set they can't they just can't but with your mindset you're probably for perfection only time to prove the doubt was wrong the haters that's something new it's fueling with trying to get things right 100% it happens man like people are difficult and leave I'm difficult sometimes we're all difficult my hands are fucking pissed and difficult but when people want to isolate you and persecute you for it they'll find they'll find whatever reasons to do that and then you know that's kind of what we'll get to I guess but you know that's just who I am so adulthood was next yeah so did you write that right yeah just direct wrote adulthood wrote adulthood and look cuz your stock must have been hiding after kiddo after dr. who you're still trying to prove that you are up mate this is again after kiddo had an anecdote I'm sorry after kiddo and dr. you are got fuck all I did barely anything after kiddo nobody gave me new films I wrote a bunch of scripts nobody was interested in any of them I was just sitting there baffled like I saw other directors put films out and literally fall up the stairs like they're feeling made three pound in a box office and then they're next to everyone's like and then the next one was five million pounds and I'm like I don't understand this but you know what I was like fine we'll just crack on just get on with it I just go all right again and it fueled me I'm like cool all right this is this how it's gonna be cool we're just gonna crack on it so I wrote adulthood and this was where and again this is another example of being difficult right this is where I started my company because I realized that um so the director didn't want to direct it and then someone suggested to me why don't you direct it and I've never directed a movie in my life but I'm like I realized same like you you pay for half your life garden course they'll pay for the other half I realized that if I didn't direct it the film wasn't going to happen so when they said do you want to do it I'm like yeah I'll do it and they're like well you've got to do a test shoot so I did the test shoot I passed the test shoot all right what's I tell you sure it's like they back in the days if they were gonna the new director they would say well he's never directed before can you do like a 10 minute I'll probably like a yeah like some scenes from the film in sequence to show that you can you know so you cast that you do all that kind of stuff and then you shoot this and you edit it you do go through the whole process of making a film but like on a mini version and then you submit it to them and if they think you can direct they approve the film so I did all that pass the test shoot we go out of hood out of hood screen there the producer at the time's like this is not going to be successful like the first film so I'm not I'm not really if they don't want to do it if they're not financing it I'm not interested in helping you all right cool go to the meeting they're like we want to finance it he's like okay what happened was I started my company and I said oh can can my company get credit on the movie because you know I've seen all you guys have got companies and I want to build my brand and just have a company and they were all like no I said what do you mean like you guys have made money off me in the first film I've made almost fuck all but I understand I've got a film we've got a second film which I'm writing starring and directing I love my company to be credited they were like no so cool I ain't doing it then and they're like of course you're doing it you're giving you're being given an opportunity to direct a movie of course you're doing it I said you know where I'm from bro I come from nothing me I ain't doing it you're gonna credit my company or I'm not doing it I've popped ball of the dash of course you're doing it closer to the movie closer to the movie as you sign the paperwork I'm not signing I'm not doing it you're gonna credit my company or I'm not doing it you're gonna give up the chance to so watch me they credit my company it's on the back end on the back of the film in association with unstoppable entertainment but it's like you have to know your worth you have to know your worth and going back to being a kid you have to not afraid to be alone not be afraid to be alone and I'm like you're taking a piss out of me now I've realized now I'm starting to realize again not academically smart but socially smart I realize is taking the piss out of me so you are going to credit my company and they did is that the more you're in that industry you realize how snake it is you look at the oxels you look at musicians they hardly make any money yeah it's the back end to a taking on the road did you start to realize I started to realize that yeah start my own company but they're willing to maybe fund your film but they're not willing to give you that extra leg up not ever not willing to give you the extra leg up and it's continued and we'll get to that it's continued but not willing to give you that extra leg up so I basically you know I was like I ain't doing it but the thing is is like I guess they didn't know who they were dealing with because most people understood the business in a way that they knew directing a film at 20-something finance review starring was just unheard of so most people would have like creamed their like no one would have done what I did but I'm from the council this statement that my friends have done mad shit like I don't you can't you can't hold that over me because I didn't well I didn't understand the business in that way but also going back to my mouth I didn't care no I don't care because people always say to me did you the pressure of directing and starring all that were you were you frightened what was that no I was not even phased that's probably like now now even if someone said right now you've got a new film now directed I understand the business I've been like you know all right like you come on let's go but back then I wasn't even phased me they're like but you're going to start and I said yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah wasn't even phased man I was down a day after what well he's gone he's great he's great I wrote in my letter back in the them days I said look man I'm a boy from west London you're a boy from east London you know I think the audience is a similar in that way I'd love you to come do a little bit in this film you said yeah mate I'll come down you came down did his day I think two day I want came down did his day went on he's great he smashed it as well he did he's saying the business like football factor yeah he's done good stuff same as adulthood and that they were just in things that people can relate relate to yeah yeah yeah so then how was the career then after that like again was there still doors getting closed or were you thinking I need to keep pushing forward well there are loads of doors with that getting closed and then and then um all the the films always got ignored all the time were everything but then I got nominated for the rising star which was the first BAFTA which was 2009 yeah voted for by the public voted for by the public and that was um and I won that but it's voted for by the public and and people have used that to discredit it for now it's fine but back in them days I remember people going yeah but it's voted for by the public every time every time I've achieved something in my career people have used a reason to discredit it or or or ruin it or every time every time because they don't have it you know I wanted I want to just shout racism but it's not always it's not always that so because you've still won those I want to still be then blockbuster films you're still taking exactly so it's not always sometimes it's just it's just like when you're achieving things that not only when you're achieving things that not only people haven't achieved but what they want they project in a way that well if they want it to be the best thing in the world when you win it it's like what I was voted for by the public who cares it's not a proper one he'll never get a proper one but if it was a public voted for you it clearly shows how well you were like light and respected by the public in your mind yeah so in your mind do sometimes you only maybe look at the negatives because you know that's the fuel that you need to keep kicking or I think did you ever concentrate on the positive I'm at the public of voting for me here I'm clearly doing well or did you always think about I need to prove these fuckers wrong yeah the second one the second one I mean you know that's what's got you as far as it has it's driven me yeah because some people can take about I credit one a little award and sit down and relax and they've made up yeah never yeah I never was like that and I used to I used to I used to see that I used to say that I used to see actors that would do things get jobs and just kind of you know you see their interviews and they sit back and they go well you know I've you know I've you know blah blah blah and I just be like yeah you sit in that chair man you sit in that chair right I ain't I ain't sitting I'm not sitting down for nothing and I used to just graph man I would put pictures of actors on the wall as targets and I don't mean like in a bad way not people I disliked people I liked but man that guy that guy is doing amazing things I want them I want those roles and I would bust my arse man like I would like smash auditions I would train I would you know just watch every film and I'm one of those guys and she might be a spectrum thing if I bought a DVD if me and my mate bought a DVD and he went home and I went home and watched it two hours later he'd be calling me like what are you doing I'm like I'm still watching the film he'd be like why I'm like there's four commentaries I have to watch them all I'm watching directors commentary writers commentary I'm watching everything composers commentary I want to know everything about why they made the choices they made and the school everything he's like I've just watched the movie right so I put pictures of paper on walls and I'm like I'm gonna bust my arse I'm gonna do everything watch everything read everything learn everything until I go to an audition and I see him because when I go to an audition and I see him or I see that his name was on the same list as me I know that I'm climbing and I used to do that all the time boom that's the next person and then I would I would I would do it until I saw him but how are you doing nice to meet you and all that kind of stuff and it's genuine I didn't I didn't dislike anyone right love attraction yeah genuine I'd see him and after that after I met him once or I saw the name or whatever I go home take that down I don't want to see you again I'm passing you I'm passing you by I don't want to see you again and people always see that as it's not arrogant it's like belief manifest I manifested this do you know what I mean the success that I built the career that I built right through all the obstacles and this stuff we ain't even got time to tell you about like through all the obstacles the career that I built was I manifested it because every time I did something I believed it and when you sound like me and you're from where I'm from when you look like me and you have the confidence I have people will label that narrative is to and you and you are successful enough or you'll work hard enough to be able to say no to people the narrative that I will put out is that you're difficult or you're angry because you you're not doing what they want you to do I think to be at the top of the game though you've kind of got to be psychotic you've kind of got to be obsessed in your craft I'm obsessed with this shit like I do I don't care about anyone else you know I've got an agenda my agenda is to be the best to be the biggest feed my heads and they're not fucking anything along the way like 100 strong character 100% my name is very strong out there and people know they've gone 100% I've got to be obsessed I'll not get time to standing fucking restaurants or do this or meet friends I ain't got time I'm too busy 100% I ain't get here's the thing right everyone thinks that a lot of people think they know me and obviously they know what they've heard about me I ain't gonna I don't give a fuck who likes me man like I honestly I'm not I've never been here to make friends I've been here to you got something by your right and me I've been here to I've been here to to graft right and for me all I've done like I've never touched a drug I don't drink I mean I'll have a bit of shams at Christmas and then you know a bit of a pot of Christmas a bit of shams when the kids are born I don't drink never touch drugs I don't I don't not even smoke weed I don't I don't part I don't go out so all these things that people are used out they're doing I never went out I didn't party I don't party people never saw me people didn't know me people didn't know me I would go work come on go work come home that's all I did I busted my ass for 20 years do you know what I mean and I didn't care I didn't care what people thought about me you know and I think some you know I think where where there's a where there's a flaw you know if I can hold my hands up as a flaw is sometimes when you stop caring about what people think about you sometimes you stop caring about what they feel about you and actually you have to consider about how you make people feel you know you have to so you know maybe maybe the times well I might have left someone feeling a bit of a way not intentionally but you know what I mean I'm just trying to do what you said feed my kids and bust my ass you know what is your mum thinking them you've won a bar after your household name like she must have been proud did you ever feel that are you too caught up moving to the next level this is an interesting one because I think that I think my numbness comes from there because she must have been proud but I can never say that we ever celebrated it do you know what I mean so I think that's that's comfortable but but I understand that my mum was at a at a hard life you know I know we're gonna get into shit later but when you talk about victims my mum's a victim you never tell me about victims my mum's a victim of some shit some real shit do you know what I mean and I think that has made her a very guarded person do you see a lot of yourself in your mum yeah yeah that that those barriers that that that garden this like you know I've seen some shit bro like I ain't a gangster I've seen some some shit and my mum saw some some shit and that shapes you and I didn't have guidance nobody took that kid whose friends were getting shot and stabbed and going to jail and nobody guided me when I got into the business there wasn't someone who went welcome here let me show you how to to play the game firstly I wasn't interested in playing no game it's like I'm coming here to win I'm here to win but secondly it was like I didn't know what to do do when they're like oh he spoke to people wrong I spoke how I speak that's how I spoke my whole life like you don't you know there's no intent there's no intent I'm not a malicious person there's no intent there to to harm or or speak wrong to people or whatever like that I'm just standing up for what I believe you know or who I am or my beliefs like I said like go to work go to your son's christening that's a no-brainer to me that's not even a question to me it's not even a question family over there family over everything but I know I know actors that I miss everything oh yeah well son's christening well I'll have another kid I'll go to work fuck that man fuck that there's a lot of sacrifice in that it's a lot to me I have me I wish you'd just get fucked off and lose a job right but you know what again I didn't care like and I did suck it there's been times I've been away from my kids for months but I don't miss birthdays I remember telling one production like you got to fly me home for my kid's birthday they're like are you serious I'm like yeah it's my kid's birthday so I'm telling you at the beginning of the job I've told you it's not like I'm a producer as well I know how these things work you can schedule it I want to go home for my son's birthday I don't care if it's for 12 hours so difficult what's he like to work with oh it's difficult man it's flat boom flies around oh someone said he's difficult someone said I'm not I'm not difficult man I'm simple like we start work at nine o'clock brotherhood come out then next like eating again every film seemed to have got better yeah that was your biggest grossed one now yeah that smashed it the whole movie did it not um Stormzy and it as well big man like what again right produced all the same stuff produced by that point yeah produced by that point yeah what you're thinking then once you another blockbuster that was a smash it like that genuinely does smash every fucking record but how were you treated then once that came out well was that must have been a different that must have been a game changer no well that was different gravy because because I kind of kind of almost gone into the wilderness because after adulthood succeeded I did you know four three two one which did really well and I tried to do we did fast girls which I wrote or didn't produce or anything but then I tried to do other films I wanted to show people that were from where I'm from that we could do stuff like fight aliens and all this kind of stuff so I tried to do other films to really broaden people's minds and they weren't ready for them maybe the film was weren't great but the point is they just didn't work they just didn't work so I had to accept that I'm like okay well that didn't work that didn't work that didn't work and then I found myself like from going to I found myself from being able to finance a film right there was a confidence I had because like we could find a film could be financed off me you could sell a studio I'll be in it and they go he's you're in it right two million bar and then I could go to other actors and I didn't need them I didn't need them so then I can do better deals because I didn't actually need them but like I don't need you the film is gonna shoot so I've got this money if you want to do it right boom so we do better deals on why then after those other films didn't work that cease to exist anymore was I want to do a film that I 500 grand maybe for you in it because these other ones have not done well how did that how did you handle that the flops just learned from it yeah there's no there's for me is like you you you win or you learn right because that while they're talking I love how I get big views and I don't get to see them the next week I think or there's no love me anymore than I slap in some straight back on it yeah yeah you sleep straight back on that I was definitely straight back on it all the time but it was kind of like it was a lot it was learning I remember I did a film story 24 which you know one newspaper weirdly I think the same newspaper that done this to me um made sure to point out that was the lowest Grosvenor film in America in 2000 I think like they didn't go counter the state boy has film released in the US and and distributor only puts it on the screen one screen to unlock TV money they didn't say that that's not a sexy headline so they had to blast me and say it was the lowest Grosvenor film right but I learned from that I remember going into the office of this company and they were like look the film hasn't done well here wherever but we've got all the international posters what people don't know is the film didn't do well here but it sold everywhere around the world everywhere and I just always took these things and learning experiences and they showed me the posters international posters and on all the international posters like China this place that place I wasn't on most of them and I said what's happening here and they were like oh well I said no no I'm not I said I'm not fussed I said teach explain to me and they were like look in some countries having your face on the thing doesn't benefit the film I was like so like for example in Asia putting me there is not going to relate to them whereas if you put all the white people up front and the Asian people they're going to relate to that more they were like yeah it's good I didn't get offended by that stuff it's a learning experience so then I was like I know how now I know how to market to Finland now I know how to market to Turkey now I know how to market to Asia I'm learning about where the audiences are and what they want do you know what I mean so the flops were not because of how I was I wasn't gutted by them but I was kind of like okay we need to regroup but they weren't they weren't without their learning experience do you know what I mean you learn the girl first you learn from everything yeah you know so brotherhood then what you're thinking so brotherhood when brotherhood came out right so the first thing I'm told again is all right we're gonna do this film but you have to be you have to know it's not going to do as well as the last one that's what the guys told me right and then one studio tries to shortchange us they're just like well it's not going to do well so we're going to give you this amount of money for all these territories around the world and we're just like come on man like this is this is this is brotherhood like you know and then another studio is like what they're mugging you up we'll give you this just for the UK well I call we'll go with you right so we went with the other studio which pissed off the first studio so much they blocked all our other movies this is how petty it was they blocked all we had two other movies in there that were about to get made and they just blocked them because they didn't get brotherhood and I found out afterwards and I approached the exact because I why'd you do that and he's like well I wanted brotherhood and you didn't give it to me I'm like you shortboard us and he's like here's what it is and I was like yeah he admitted it because I caught him at lunch I walked into his thing at lunch and he's sitting there and I sat down he was in the main thing at lunch I said you you you blocked our movies didn't you and he's like well well I said no no no just just be honest you blocked him didn't you he's like yeah I did I did because I wanted brotherhood and you did I said but you tried to mug us off man he said I worked with you for this amount of years I was waiting for that film and then you gave it to that I said but you literally tried to rob me so I was like cool so we go to this other studio right and then I don't hold the rights to the films because the people that produced them at the beginning the same one that said he weren't interested at the beginning of of adulthood right he owns the rights because when you when you when you're producing stuff you you take the rights so you didn't do anything wrong but this guy like basically then held us to ransom we had to give this guy 10% of the budget just for him to give us the rights and to make brotherhood this is stuff I created but these are these people treat me right 10% of the budget so from a 1.2 million pound movie he get 120 in fact I think I think for doing fuck all for just having the rights just because he don't like me simply because he doesn't like me right so we do that so now you've got 1 million and 50 whatever you've got right which you know to people that have never made a film before sounds like luxury and it is luxury but you know if you make films and you by this point I've done everything I've done I should be getting much more money then I get told by the studio that is doing it with all due respect to them I and I love the guy that was there he was like look the last film was 2008 since then social media Netflix Amazon all this stuff this film is not going to make as much money as the last ones you have to understand that I'm like cool why I call in my mind I'm like it's going to make more I know it is because I know I know what I'm writing and I know what the audience is going to be and he's you know and it comes out and it makes more he's dancing a jig like couldn't believe it and then people started going oh hold on a second this guy still people still interested in this guy and then things started to roll then bulletproof started to roll people started going okay well we need to get him on tv because if he's bringing this money to cinemas and they're paying to see him imagine if he's free and then things started to roll that's when things started to really start taking off it's mad do it brotherhood tonight like smash hats and smashing millions and millions of pounds opening week that and for such a low budget like how far do you think you would have got if somebody says look there's 10 million there's 20 million firstly I think I would have the type of person I was like if somebody gave us 20 million I would have probably made 10 movies but why was nobody giving you the the the risk not even the risk because the movies speak for themselves the the numbers speak for themselves so why there's nobody to take the the chance uh say look this is what we've got here bang bang bang and then you've understood if they're taking a percentage for what they're funding it beget I don't need to answer that I mean we know the answer to that I don't need to answer that we know the answer to that as I said like there were directors that were doing films that made 300 grand literally tripping at the bottom of the stairs and rolling up the stairs your film made 300 grand next film's five million that five million pound film makes two million next film's 30 million how does that make sense was I'm busting my arse and 10 years later I'm still doing films of 1.2 million I think like we know the answer to that so see when her with storms that he worked well it was great he was great he was still he hadn't blown he hadn't blown up yet I mean he was on the ground on the ground he was the guy and you know my business partner at the time was like yo this is the guy so we we knew it as a mutual woman that we knew and I just called her up and said you know or like to talk to him about being in this film and he he said he's had offers before but this film kind of makes sense and then he came and he did it he smashed it he went on like we're not I like the guy but we're not like he doesn't come around my house or anything we're not mates you know what I mean then bill it comes along yeah sky one yeah like mega shows we all like mega how did that come about bulletproof so in 2009 2009 2009 actually and I uh we're at I don't know we're out at an event and I think um we're walking around in the back and he sees me and he goes uh I don't know why but anyway we start speaking he says oh we should work together because you know we both realized that 18 uh nine years in the game or whatever like that and like we've kind of been we feel kept apart kept apart do you know what I mean like it's like why wouldn't both these guys are doing well why wouldn't you do a film with them together or something like that so we're like let's work together so we start meeting up in this coffee shop and we go what do you want to do villains police and we're like no villains let's be police officers and he goes all right let's yeah we'll be police officers and he goes let's do it like one of us is he says I'm I'm known as the bad boy right you know actually at the time he's known as the bad boy so I'll be like the good one he says and you're kind of known as the goodie you know so you be the bad one like cool so we plot this thing six page you know I then go where I write this six page thing about what it should be and did it and then bust bust I'll ask for years bust I'll ask for years trying to get that set up um various different incarnations of what we're trying to do just just nothing happens and then eventually you know I just never give up and then I have a meeting with vertigo films and they're just like if you got any tv ideas I'll give them that document and they're like we love it we love it but again this is where we go back to the company stuff so give them that document and they go we love it and they take it to sky and sky go we love it we want to do this thing and I mean actually like cool and then they're like we want to bring on nick love I'm like why well because Nick love and did it I'm like yeah cool I love I don't love him I know like love I respect him but why do you need to bring someone else on well we just think like the three of you did it so me and I say all right what do you think they're cool bring Nick love on Nick love adds his flavor to it makes it better can't can't knock it makes it better you know give gives another energy whatever then vertigo go you you guys companies can't have any credits so I'm in the same position and I don't dislike this company I don't dislike vertigo but I'm just telling you facts of what happened why not well because you know where where the ones the exposure taking it to sky and blah blah blah so me and Ashley have a chat or like should we be stubborn or should we get the film made I'll get the the show made well let's get the show made all right cool go that we're adding Nick as creator as well why he bought him one yeah because he's added so much flavor into it and blah blah blah and that's fair in it and you know kind of we're all creating this new show together off your document so okay cool so I'm good with all this but in the back of my mind I'm like so then you know sky made a show and it's vertigo films and then whatever else and it comes out and you know it was fire but what people don't know is a lot of the stuff in there like the fist bumps and the trainers and the and the and the uh this is all stuff we we added like it wasn't in the drops like you know I knew Ashley and I knew the sort of show that we wanted to make and we got there in terms of the scripts but in terms of the energy and the the the sort of the lightness anyone who knows my films and knows my humor knows us that's me do you know what I mean like and I would get every every morning get into the trailer Ashley's own yeah my comp boom all right this is what we're gonna do and he's like yeah why don't we do this I'm like yeah why don't we do that and we would you know the scripts he provides us like scripts he provides the person make sure you say your lines correctly and all this kind of stuff they were just like because we just didn't we just did our own thing like we we would basically change the scenes every every morning and let's do this and we do the fist bump here and I talk about our trainers here and we talk about being scared of the driver in there and we did all that kind of stuff and if the show come out and smash just absolutely smashed it absolutely smashed it so how was that from 10 years ago you're fighting for the same rights to have your your business put on he was annoying and then 10 years later your stocks get bigger everything's bigger is a case a look we're giving you the opportunity accept it or just fuck off we'll bring some deals in if you don't accept it then well it's up on your a pest yeah well again you get called difficult right but we just kind of thought we'll accept it but this is where it gets interesting so the show comes out absolutely smashed it like it's the number one show on sky you know blah blah blah so then season two gets announced immediately right after season one season two gets announced um everyone's talking about it they come to us and you know uh they're like right season two so boy should sign up for season two this day and the other i was like i'm not doing it what so i'm not doing it i need my company credited you just had a hit show are you ridiculous you just had a hit show blah blah what do you mean you're not doing that so i'm not doing it ashley's calling me up no what are you doing my like i said bro like hiring us does not build us do you know what i mean like just hiring people there's not big what's it what's the thing give a man a fish he can fish for a day right well something i don't know teach him how to fish just hiring me doesn't i'm not i want my company credited i'm not having it i spoke to ash and he was like well do you know what bro you've been busting your arse like more than me so like if they can only credit one company you've been busting your arse more than me if they can only create a company let's go with yours whatever like that you've actually got the infrastructure now because by this point i'd had my deal i'd had my big company deal which we can talk about um and i said i said ultimately bro like between you and i i'm going to do it but i ain't doing it right now like so we just i just i went with that and i stood my ground because again it comes back to like you don't know where i'm from me like i'm not having it and they credit it and my company got credited i didn't get money for it though like people need to know we weren't cutting to the production fee so the production fee you do a big tv show or a film or if a 10 percent of the fee goes towards a production company that makes it for like all their work and all that kind of stuff so we were out of that we didn't get any of that i think we got i got like a little bonus on season two but we didn't get any of that stuff so people's perception is that we're basking in this we're rolling in it like we're still getting mugged off even even all these years later but not but i love this company like the the main guy there is this person i love and respect massively but people just need to know like me and actually weren't just like raking it in do you know what i'm saying and so but i had to stand my ground so the company was created here then that was that was the start were you paid for just the acting then acting and a bit of exact producing and obviously i wrote i wrote them as well but yeah i thought that you should put and tip man let this one let it let i know but this is this is the business and also people what people don't know what people don't know they don't know you know and i don't begrudge nick like we didn't begrudge nick nick came on he added his flavor they wanted to give him a culture i'm fine we didn't argue that you know but but again it this is the sort of narrative that is where people go is difficult you know i remember they wanted to bring on a casting director and this casting director is someone that has known me for probably 20 years never give me a sniff of nothing was so so friendly with me when i first started out is even got one of the original bats from kiddo would never give me a sniff of nothing all i've heard is this guy through through the grapevine talking bad about me but i've never said any word and then they told me they're bringing this casting director on i said no way but i'm the difficult one i said no way they said well come and have a meeting with him so i sat down with him and we met and we spoke and he's like you know but you know i've respected you you've always been busy i said you ain't giving me nothing for 20 years why should you eat off my off my plate but they call me difficult what do you say he said no but you know i you know i do respect you and i said like me you ain't you ain't eating off my plate it's not happening so we can have this meeting but i've known you 20 years and you don't owe me anything like no one owes you anything like nobody owes you anything but you know when people have done things that you know you're right for and they've not even seen you not even had a chance to audition so i said no so bill it put it for then viewpoint as well viewpoint best performance ever done me viewpoint was the best performance ever done was like a chance to be different a chance to be what people didn't expect it's a very you know i'm naturally very animated naturally very animated and and and bulletproofs are very sort of you know but viewpoint was very still and very sort of um you thought a lot of thought into the character and stuff like that and i was immensely proud of that immensely proud of that do you feel as if you're coming at the the pinnacle you're here at the top where you feel as if the film was making sense a hundred percent i just put other hoods a hundred percent like i think like you're just putting all the pieces together and that's just still not untouchable but you feel as if it was making sense definitely not untouchable but i just got good i've been doing it for years off of natural off of raw off of like learning people see me grow up in the business was learning i just got good i just got good it just clicked for me everything had just clicked for me and i don't mean the industry i had just gone okay i understand this now i understand performance i understand and i understand the way you need to the nuances i just i'm just i can play this character i can play that character i can be angry i can be sad i just got i understand i understood the business in a way that most people don't because of my experiences and and the roadblocks and the way i had to navigate i understood producing i understood directing i understood writing i understood acting i understood i had a company i understood the business in a rounded way i understood audience like no matter what people say you know there's lots of people but i can't act you can't no matter what people say the facts are the facts me like the achievements of the films doing theater winning this doing that winning that doing this one and that the achievements and achievement the facts of the facts and it's not all it's not all it's not all it's not all talent because i'm not the most talented at any time it's understanding starting to learn the business will it prove doesn't just work because it's the best show it's not the best show so i understand the audience i know who is i know who is targeted at kiddo with adulthood and brotherhood more the latter two because the first one was just what it was it's not just about hood rats are watching them or or they got lucky it's like i know the audience i know audiences we did a show for channel five called the drowning i wasn't in it not not not around it biggest show on channel five in 10 years not because of the best show it's because when we developed it we understood the channel five audience and so it was almost like you know you know it was almost like neo in the matrix i stopped seeing people and i started seeing the dead numbers i could see the code i'm not just him i could see i could see everything and it's just getting to that point and then boom so then you won the bath for what was it leave time what was that yeah outstanding contribution to british cinema yeah because you're in the industry for nearly 20 years everything you're achieving directing producing yeah acting yeah every every fucking box you could tick you've won that bath and you've come off of brotherhood you've come off of bullet proof and then you're you're thinking i'm at the top of my game you like you say you're seeing the patterns you understand it now you understand how the game works you've got your credibility everything you've worked for has came you've bought the bath but everything's all gravy the same time the same month you get the bath to buying allegations seeping and then the dark clouds come over that did you know what was going to be happening with the guardian and everything before that how does it yeah so so the first thing that happened is um i was uh i was um at home and they call you they call you like a week before they announce it and they go listen we want to award you this what do you think you know man i'm like wow and you know after everything i've told you it was the first time i felt they've accepted me i was like they've accepted me and they asked you did you want to accept it and i was like i said let me take a couple of days right because you're just like you know it's the first time i was like i think they finally i think they finally 20 years in accepted me and gone like do you know what this guy busted his ass you've accepted him and then they announce it on 29th of march and the the responses just they announced it on the 29th of march and the response is just like overwhelmingly positive and i'm just thinking wow you know and my default setting is always is like whatever move on but i can't help but go crack a smile for the first time like wow you know because people see pictures of me i never used to say i'm always like because that was just a crack a smile i'm like wow and then that was a friday i think and then the monday morning i'm on set and i get this phone call and my agent goes yeah hi i've got the npr on the line as well so if you if your agent calls you and goes i've got the pr on the line as well straight away i'm like what's happened and he's like yeah you hold on a second i'm like fuck what's happened because we've had anonymous emails coming so do you know what they're saying anonymous emails coming saying you're an assaulter and you're this that and the other and you should not be getting this award you know what the what are you talking about and i kind of was like what are you on about i said what have you ever and and bear in mind right i've worked 20 years and in those 20 years right not one of my agents has ever had a complaint but it's not me fibbing or we've had to brush things on the carpet none of my agents have ever had a complaint none of them none of my pr teams have ever had to kill a story right i've been around pr women my whole life i've seen them kill stories for for actors and directors and i've seen it happen like i've never done any of that i've never had any of that right so i'm just like baffled right um i'm just i can't i can't believe it but i'm like well there's a few i'm a few few people i think last probably so and so whatever because i've had i've had trouble in the past and we'll get to that um uh not this sort of trouble but people um and they said and they've sent this email to BAFTA as well i'm like f***ing out i said what do we do i said well we're just gonna keep monitoring it and blah blah blah next day more emails from the same account and it's this this this cool have you heard of proton emails no f***ing neither had i neither had i right so proton emails it is this i think they're swiss and they basically ensure privacy so this swiss company they don't give out any information about anyone right swiss right so you know they're neutral they don't give out any you have to you have to get police involved in all that kind of stuff it takes a long time to get the information i mean you can get it but it takes a long time but generally you can't get any information about right it's proton so these people are using proton emails so you know immediately the agents like well we're looking into the these emails keep flying in the survivors of this guy the the victims of this guy blah blah for 20 years we're gonna march we're gonna march on BAFTA with all the victims there's there's hundreds of us i've still got i've still got a lot of these emails screenshots of these emails where they're just talking all this stuff this thing ever i make my heart is just because i'm like what and this just keeps keeps keeps keeps going so 10 days later i said in BAFTA BAFTA start communicating with with these emails going well this is this is terrible would i tell us tell us more whatever like that you know give us some ideas and these people are not telling them anything they're just like he's just done this he's done this we're gonna march in your building this thing all this kind of stuff you know i can't i can't knock them at this point BAFTA because they were engaging they're trying to find out what's happening so they're trying to they're obviously trying to do i guess what they should do and think well if this guy has done all these things we need to find out so they keep asking and eventually these conduits come forward these conduits of that that know my survivors and insuring BAFTA that it's real we're ensuring you that it's real and it says husband and wife and this other woman like and they're ensuring you know bear in mind i've never met this husband in my life never met him doesn't know me right the wife i've met and spent two years away on the film committee not a not a crossword not a not a not a not a bad look not a crossword hello mate how are you boom for two years right but they're involved they're the conduits right and they're telling BAFTA we're assuring you these stuff is real so BAFTA is getting really shaky now right they're stopping communicating with me they're talking to my agents and all this kind of stuff it's getting it's getting a little bit like what is going on and then this just keeps building up and then i start seeing my harasser my convicted harasser the guy that's been harassing my family for 10 years and putting out this narrative that i've been bullying him like right and i don't know why i've let this go for all this time but i have done and i probably shouldn't have but i've just let it go because i was being like whatever but obviously that was a mistake and this guy's been i see him start tweeting laughing faces and and and and prison bars and saying things like nobody's unstoppable so like i know him i know immediately i know immediately that he's involved i just know right and i don't care anyone could say i know because i you know you tweet this stuff or instagram it then delete it but what he doesn't know is since 2014 15 when he was convicted of harassing me i've had people screenshotting him so anytime he puts something up they get screenshotted and even if he deletes it we've got it right there's a there's a there's a the police have a 10-year file on him which is still active right now but so he starts tweeting this stuff so now i'm just kind of like okay well that's happening there this happening here but i can't connect i can't connect at all i know that he knows about it but i can't connect at all and then friends start calling me women start calling me oh yeah um someone's been trying to get information about you i'm no isn't like they they they wouldn't say but you know this that any other like but i'll just say you know i hope you're all right etc etc i might make my heart is literally like in my mouth i just can't understand what's happening and then it's about to keep talking to these conduits and they keep saying to the conduits give us a fact give us one fact about what he's supposedly done and we will not give him this award right which is well within their right to do that and i think like what else should you do they're not given any facts not given any facts they're not told anything the day before the award all my employers sky bbc all three media bath they're not an employer but whatever and my agents they all got and has all get on the zoom right and they all be like they're all of them all right and this is facts it can be checked all of them go we've never heard anything like this about him ever this is getting pretty serious but we've never none of us have none of us can say we've heard anything like this about him we've already can be difficult we've already is a bit tricky we've never had anything like this about him at all so what do we do so after like we have to we have to give him the award because you can't just not you know so you know they did what they were supposed to do in my eyes i'm not defending them because trust me out there's no love here for them for how they acted afterwards but at this point they did everything that they could possibly do to verify what is happening on the 11th of april i think it is i'm told well you're getting the award you got to go there this is supposed to be the best day of my career it is like literally the second worst day of my life they and again just like i said earlier everything i achieved from a whole career people have tried to discredit or ruin or spoil for whatever reasons they don't like me because i'm arrogant or for whatever reasons but so i go there on that day with a speech i've had written for years by the way everyone's like well he only wrote that speech because he knew what was happening i've had that speech written for years because since i won the first one people giving me grief about how i boxed up do you know what i mean so i was for if i want to if i ever win another one i'll say or i want to apologize but actually i'm not apologizing that's something i've written for years right i go up i do like me this is the worst this is at this time this is the worst day of my life right i'm on there i'm walking through i'm seeing people from back to looking at me side i and me because i know some of them know that this is happening it's just like the most horrible thing i go there do my speech leave i can't you talk about never celebrating i can't celebrate anything i don't even touch that fucking thing i just put it on the shelf like do you know what i mean i just i can't even i've not touched it since um and get the award get the award the everything's positive thing comes out everyone's really positive after then don't air my speech on the they don't put it on social media so they're already they were really in their minds they've already in their mind decided what they're doing right they can pretend whatever they don't put my speech on social media they don't um promote it or anything like that so they've already decided um but nothing happens right the day after i went in emails go everywhere to sky to all three to everywhere so the people were so whoever the people are well i know who they i know who it was but they were so angry they start sending the emails everywhere targeted just to and and not to people not like oh we're making the industry better to everyone just to people i'm working with just to the companies i'm working with even the production companies vertigo tiger aspect like viewpoint people just to targeted people that i'm working with and then then i start getting calls going the old newspapers are calling me and then a friend of mine calls me she goes this person's DM me this journalist DM me and she sends me the journalist all the journalists contact details and it's got a number her email and her email is like so-and-so proton email proton email whatever i've seen that before now i'm not saying that they sent them but i just found i've never heard of this thing and then all of a sudden one of the journalists has it as well like i don't i don't know if they were advising them i don't know if it was i don't know if it was set up for i don't know but it just felt a little bit odd to me you know what i mean so at that point this guy here now is tweeting more things and deleting them tweeting more things and deleting them but we're screenshotting everything we're screenshotting everything and then on the 26th of 26th of april i just get i get any i call hi so-and-so from the guardian we were calling you i just said call me age and put down the phone i'm i'm dying i'm dying like i i don't know what a sense of dread or doom feels like but it must have felt like that like i'm just dying like this thing comes over my body like like i'm just dying my arses in my fucking my hearts in my ass like i'm dying i just can't believe this and then i open this email that they send and i just see this thing man and i just see and i'm just like and they go you got 24 hours to respond i don't have i don't have a i don't have a crisis pr i don't have crisis lawyers i've never had i've never needed any of that stuff because i'm a i'm a normal guy for sure like am i imperfect am i imperfect flawed normal guy for sure but like they're calling me abuser assaulter then i'm reading this stuff and i'm seeing these names and i'm like i've literally helped you for 10 years i i'm just i can't even you know i mean and then you know and i've spoken to a lot of journalists and a lot of people people think i've been sitting on master two years i've not i've been i've spoken to a lot of people they're like getting 24 hours to respond to this stuff is it's not it's not done you know people get get a week whatever sometimes more because it's a lot to take in they're like 24 hours all the stuff i have now all the information i have now i couldn't have collected if i couldn't have collected in that time anyway so everything that you went through from the kid reading his comics to try to stay out of trouble to then build on a profile for 20 years winning the bath bath you're thinking it's all great getting the phone call from the garden it wasn't just one accusation it was 20 so you're trying to paint you as a Harvey Weinstein character like so you're thinking and how can they release that without any charges any convictions that how can they how can they release that against someone i don't know mate that's the question isn't it so they give me 24 hours i suddenly have to get these lawyers that never met me before right so these lawyers have to respond to this they don't know me right so these lawyers have to come in and they have to they just have to i just go mate that's not true that's not true that's not true so they denied everything which is which is the right thing to do but i couldn't even provide context because i didn't have the time to get the things i needed they're just like and so these lawyers have never met me so these lawyers in all due respect to them they they're saying all this stuff but you know they don't they don't know they can't put their firm in danger they don't they don't know you know what i mean and they're like we're publishing it on Thursday and they put it out i picked the kids up from school picked the kids up from school and we just went had some friends that like got a place to go we just went there and they just put it out life upside down targeted as a monster just oh yeah what for what for this is what they wanted so exactly what they wanted just to destroy me there's no there's no if you think somebody's done all that stuff if you think somebody's done that stuff you go to the police if you think somebody's done all those things that they they made it to look like because when you when you actually read it when you actually read it oh he said my bum was nice he told me he likes to pull on here he propositioned me at dinner i said no he went home when you actually read it he stores unsolicited he takes and stores unsolicited picture how do you take unsolicited pictures i'm hiding in changing rooms big actor like me i'm hiding in changing room towel towel bins when they throw the towels in i'm popping up how do you take unsolicited pictures how do you store unsolicited pictures if people send me unsolicited pictures why am i in trouble should they be in trouble do you know what i mean sharing i don't share i've never shared unsolicited pictures go find them go find the pictures i've shared you ain't gonna find any because that's what one of the women says you will they're doing a sex scene or that it was naked right right apparently you are sharing it round everyone there's things i can't talk about right now but let me tell you what i can tell you is fact right let me tell you about that these these supposed sneaky uh naked auditions that we're having never happened right and what i mean by that is we had an there was a film called legacy which there was a role which was a hippie hippie it's like a hundred pound a day no money you know and this hippie role had had moments of nudity in it right and and um this was organized by a proper female casting director it wasn't sneaky wasn't getting people in and like oh get your clothes off it never never happened this was organized by a proper female casting director it was a three-tiered audition right it was fully clothed audition if you got through to the next round you could come back in bikinis or underwears and then if you got through to the next round it was a nude audition right and in hindsight in 2023 you go well that's just stupid right i can i can do that i can open i can put my hands up and say that but if people think that i'm the only person that made that decision you'd be slightly mistaken you can't just go this is what we're going to do there's loads of people involved in those decisions right but going back to that this is 2012 i think right and this audition goes to spotlight spotlight is a place where you send breakdowns for auditions right i've still got the emails goes to spotlight nobody has a problem with it it goes to all the agents still got these emails all the agents submit their actors still got all the emails right wasn't it's nothing sneaky about it it was a three-tiered audition right and so it even says on the breakdown it's not a lot of money do not send people that don't want to come in no actors under the age of 23 it says it all on there so the people that come in knew what they're coming in for not only did they know what they're coming in for it wasn't one day it was like over a three-week process maybe four weeks i don't remember right so then they come in so the the the accusation is that the last one i filmed it well they must have the video them but i know they don't because there is no video so why are you printing it the casting directors in the article saying it didn't happen but they bury that they bury that they say all these things you've done and they go we spoke to the casting director who said there's absolutely no way this happened but they bury that no one reads that no one's reading that once you read that retweet clutch your pearls monocle pops out retweet no one's reading that stuff because all the things you'd send you so much information that obviously it's 20 accusations what was the thing about the decker perkin on snapchat you know they they they made out like 20 separate people like a lot of these people were mates right and another thing like oh this person sent sent me an unsolicited poor innocent was sent an unsolicited not true not true i don't want to get into the the ins and outs of it because it's stuff that will come out when it needs to come out but i can assure you that that situation was more about adults having conversations with each other than it was about somebody praying on anyone what about the bullying accusations i mean again like you know what i will say about those things is like i'm a i'm a tricky guy i'm a very direct straight down the line guys is another thing that people don't like about me is like i'm pretty simple man if we start work at nine o'clock come to work at nine o'clock don't come in at half past nine don't come in at nine forty five don't tell people that you were picked on for coming into work 10 minutes late when actually you were two hours late and you were two hours late because if someone's behaving inappropriately with somebody else and comes to work late because of that and are reprimanded for that reason then they shouldn't be telling the newspaper that you bullied them because they were 10 minutes late and that's that's just that's just fact it's a mad thing that you went through and it's messy like 20 accusations and the thing was it's not as even if you get charges there was no the coppers didn't even investigate it and then there was no investigation with all these accusations that see when you're thinking your career's at the top then all this comes out because what you've been with your missus what 15 sweeties yeah four kids yeah father try to do the right thing yeah but through a lot in your life yeah when your wife sees that what's happened it's horrible look i you know because i i i don't want to sit here and say to you i'm the perfect son i'm the perfect father i'm the perfect husband i'm the perfect friend i'm the perfect man i'm not i'm i'm flawed like i believe everybody else's it seems like it's just me but like i believe everyone else's but i know what i'm not i know what i'm not not an assault i'm not a sexual predator i'm not a fucking abuser right and so for my family to see this my mom my wife like it's just horrible and again it goes back to the same thing not only if i never had complaints with with my my agents and all that kind of stuff we've never we've never had this sort we've never had this sort of stuff in the whole time i've been with her do you know what i mean i've never i've never raised my hand to a woman i've never shot i don't we don't even have shouting matches like you know and what they're gonna do now you know they're gonna dig up in my past all my ex-girlfriend still speak to me bar one and she and bar one and she was an abuser all of them have reached out to me all of them messaged me i saw one the other day she made big hark how you're doing like oh my what does that what does that tell you like if i can still legitimately speak to all my exes live my significant exes you're like you you kind of go well hold on a second do you know what i mean and and going back to that sorry just going back to that lateness right my thing is like i don't care if someone wants to be inappropriate with someone i'm not one of those people i know the world has changed and people are not supposed to have liaisons or whatever but i don't care do what you do outside in your private time right just don't come to work late it's it's as simple as that man and when you're directing a film and you know that all those eyes are on you and all that pressures on you and basically like if that film doesn't work nobody goes oh bob the sound man your film didn't work mate your film didn't work did it bob the sound man's on another job no one goes oh oh gym the cameraman boy that film didn't work gym the camera's on the floor if that film doesn't work it's on me so if i will need you to come in at nine o'clock come in at nine o'clock if i tell you bring blue jeans bring blue jeans don't bring me red jeans unless you've told me the day before i can't get blue i'm bringing red that does that's just who i am and that makes me to people i guess sometimes intimidating i guess sometimes people go well you know he's a bit too he's a bit too what's the word forward he's a bit too kind of stuff i don't know and and the same with the the thing i've never had a conversation i think there's questions men have to ask themselves right i've never had a conversation with a woman that's being like sort of fruity or whatever that in in my opinion or mine as to the best of my knowledge wasn't mutual right so you have to look at yourself when you go are you harasser of women i'm gonna no i'm not harasser of women but every man has to go has any woman ever felt harassed by you that's a that's a different that's a different thing women might have felt harassed by you without you realizing it all right so you now need to i think what we need to do in society is look at sometimes intent we need to look at intent because actually you know what there are there are harassers all right there are harassers but there are also people that don't kind of realize how they're behaving or don't kind of realize how they are do you know what i mean and if if i'm guilty of anything it may be that because no there's there's not even a person that can say to me we've had these conversations and i told you to stop and you carried on never because even it even says in the article when i said to that girl you got a nice bum which i did say and she said i don't say that i apologize to her i'm so sorry i'm really really sorry do you know what i mean and you know everyone says 20 accusations abuser and all this kind of stuff like my mum is a survivor i know survivors me i'm sorry if this offends people but if somebody tells you your bum is nice if somebody propositions allegedly propositions you at dinner you say no and and they go home if somebody allegedly tells you that they like to pull long hair during sex if somebody allegedly tells you um they want to offer you a piece of dark chocolate in a in a you ain't you ain't a survivor sorry you're not you may have survived other people but in that situation you're in a survivor that's that's disrespectful to survive i know survivors me but it clearly has ruffled some sort of affairs to then all those accusations and then for the garden to publish that like what do you think's behind that would you how do you think that's all came into fruition i know he's behind it there's things i can't say right now i know he's behind it but it's just does it go a lot deeper than it it goes a lot deeper than we have time for goes a lot deeper than you didn't didn't you think um it's it's there's a lot of ruffled feathers involved and i think that people people i think people took the opportunities to express their anger i think people took the opportunities to express their they were they heard something that like this guy is this this and this has he ever done this to you no but he did say this to me once no but he did say that to me once i've got i've got women that text me that were like we were called by the journalists and i had nothing negative to say about you and basically we were sort of it was made it was painted that if we spoke positive of you we would be labeled as victim blames i've got these texts i've got these texts from people that were called i've got people that told me that things didn't happen that they told them and then they still printed the things but they didn't quote those persons they didn't quote those people as they're saying it like it is there was an agenda from people to get me because i'm disliked and i ruffled feathers and i'm i'm i'm apathy and i'm not in my lane and if you say to me have you ever been inappropriate and yeah of course i've said inappropriate things i can i'm in my 40s me when i grew up when i grew up we didn't swipe on phones you went out and you met people and you chatted them up or you got chatted up you walked through a club girls grabbed your arm do you know what i mean you you you walked through a club you're like you asked for numbers and people gave you people gave you a fake number if they didn't like you and if they liked you you got the real number and then you went out with them there was no apps there was no sort of do you know what i mean but also for me there's like i'm not there's no intent there it's not it's not in my nature it's not it's not a thing that that i believe i do and and you know i've seen so much of this stuff like i can basically go through the whole thing you know i'm happy i would be happy to on here or anywhere to sit opposite those journalists and go let's go through it one by one i have all the i can have all the lawyers sitting there let's go through it one by one let's go through the whole thing one by one and you go this is what someone so said no go oh well here you go is here's those facts here these here are these texts here are these emails here's this that and the other and let's do that let's do that live and and let's see what let's see let's see who comes out of it at the end see over the last two years that i said anyone had your bike very few people i mean you know very few people but before that i just want to say like it didn't stop there you know there was there was other things like they they let's just give you an example they they came after me for so they the show i mentioned earlier the channel five show the drowning they came they came after me for the drowning and said on the set on the set of the drowning that i bullied and harassed these two women and it was awful the environment in our office was toxic and this that and the other and blah blah blah blah and then a third woman witnessed this and said it was like clark was kicking puppies that's how bad and bullying was it was like i was kicking puppies we're printing this as well and what you got to say so i was i was in south africa shooting bulletproof i wasn't on the drowning i wasn't on set i wasn't in prep i wasn't on shoot i wasn't even there so how have you got two people and a witness that said like it was there was there was it was do you know i mean they didn't print that in the end because i think it was one two four because i weren't even in the country but my point is is like when people go like if this has happened it's fact it's like it's not it's not always the case because the cancer the last episode of viewpoint as well would offer so your whole world's come crumbling down like the accusations like that no matter who yeah that's the worst thing you can say to anyone like over the torment the misery everything's went through no charges no investigation no nothing like over that period like because you ended up suicidal thoughts like when was the darkest moment for you ended the whole come crashing down a father who's got four kids a message who loves them but you had the thoughts of an officer enough well i think yeah i did i know i want to get to that i just want to say before that i just want to say like our company was doing such great things and i don't just mean like or we were succeeding like we had we had two greenlit movies we had two greenlit tv shows we were we had a bunch of other things that were happening there was a book deal a novel for me it was an animated show with a kids kids kids animated show and we had all these things right happening we we had um we had a hot desk in our office where young writers could come and just write and be around us they didn't hear all the meetings but just be around us we were we were bastions of diversity that we had all sorts of people that could just come through and and take meetings with us and speak to us we were doing shows that were all female writers rooms all black writers rooms all multicultural we were doing all sorts of all sorts of things we just started a program where young offenders people that are offended who sort of had no chance of getting into the business we're getting into the business i just got getting them into the business i just got a guy to be the lead composer on a tv show who had been in jail was good at music and i got it signed off got it got signed off by the the broadcaster and all that like we were doing like such amazing things like in in the company to give back to give back to get more people like us through the door like consistently you know what i mean we just got a bunch of books that were by a black writer that had just kind of been struggling for a while nobody wanted to make him i got that stuff green it we just got it green it we got it we got it built and met like we were doing so many things so we were so it wasn't about just me being hired the company was was so high and was such a different energy such a different company like such a vibe like if a young writer just went on can i come and write in the office at the hotbed we're like yeah come in we didn't advertise it because it would have been like full on but you know just come in they would come in they would be writing and you know see us and be around like we were doing such amazing positive things for the business that i know what other companies aren't doing there's no companies that are doing getting offenders literally offenders not just an assistant i got this guy to be the composer of a tv show and the broadcasters are like it's on you you know it's on you i'm like yeah fine it's on it's on us it'll be on us signed off you know what i've done for his life you compose a tv show you're going me after that you are you'll be in the door and that will change his life you know we'd be doing all these things and so when it happened all of that it's not just about it's not just about me well about my business partner it's everything every tv show that got pulled bulletproof cancelled viewpoint pulled off which was going into another season the two greenlit shows so essentially four shows we had the two greenlit shows that were were building up where one of them was in prep so you got about you think about 300 jobs on each of those shows about 300 jobs on each of those shows gone we had seven women in our company right the talk about me is this guy is uh we had seven women in our company four people that were there every day and three sort of satellites kind of you know seven me and my business partner and seven women did any of them ever come up for all the games too they were not even called they were not even called you're doing an investigation into a man and what he's like shortly you've got to call the women that work with him seven some of them were with us for five years some of them are with me for five years every single day apart from weekends obviously and sometimes weekends and sometimes trips away to toronto film festival and all that some of them with me for five years not only did they knock they weren't even called no they weren't even if you how can you investigate and not call people that have been working with them for five years or working with them every day not one of them are called and they range from the ages of 21 to like 55 sorry like 50 not none of them were called what was the plan for the one car mate so but what's the connection with all that so there was um one of the articles slammed us um for doing this horrible prank on on one of the main accusers and it was a prank where my business partner has an allergic reaction and then we get the phone call that we have to pee pee on her and i'm like you gotta pee on him you gotta pee on him get your fanny out pee on him pee on him and they blasted us it's all anything blasted us and like i think she's quoted in the article like trauma i don't remember but you know we just got absolutely the ripped for that one destroyed and if you go on channel five's website there's a thing called prank so she knew about it she knew about it but no one's no one's admitted that she knew about it she organized it the whole thing it wasn't it wasn't even a prank to be honest with you it wasn't even a prank it was all set up but no one's no one's gone come forward or gone i stand by everything else but that was me no one said anything they're just like so we just we just we just died in the water and he's he's he's lost everything as well what was it to a woman at gq they're the journalists what was all that about what what they were told to investigate you but yeah they said that they were told to do it and they did it and it was a three week investigation and it was easy because so many people were coming forward and this that and the other but like what he said my bum was not like what i don't so many people are coming forward like me like and then they did a gq interview and and you know i guess bragging like celebrating there celebrating there celebrating what they did it's interesting because sharon khali did an interview talking about like they they they tried to be fair and empathetic and and um and balanced and there's no malice everything about what they did was malicious and it wasn't fair because you can't you can't she also says on that same interview that sometimes she does investigations that are a year long and makes mistakes how can you do a three week investigation and think that everything is accurate and in that interview they're like oh it was a race against time it was a race against time we needed to get the story why where was i going where was i going what was it was i leaving the planet what what why was there a race against time i don't i don't understand it surely getting it right surely getting it right getting all these they demonize me criminalize me dehumanized me emasculated me and everything with all these stuff accused me of criminal things so you got to go to the police take those to the police take those to the police i could be at home having Sunday dinner get on a knock on the door can you come to the station and bring all your bring your phone and whatnot and then get me nabbed if it's real and then once i'm nabbed put your article up that happens to everybody else how come it didn't happen to me that seems to happen to everyone else you hear about it so-and-so has been arrested and you're like oh my god so why was it different for me what was what was the race against what was the race against time why do you think it happened to you they want they had an agenda they just wanted to get someone and it was perfect timing because there were people that didn't like me wanted to get me and look i can hold my hands up and say look man have i spoke to people that i now look back and go oh maybe you shouldn't have spoken to them like that sure doesn't make you a bully i can hold my hands up and go ah do you know what did you ever say something inappropriate to that person yeah maybe or did you you know have you ever in your years have you ever tried your luck with someone yeah maybe do you know what i mean that doesn't make you a sexual predator that makes you a human being and a flawed one but everyone's flawed you can still be an ally and not be perfect do you know what i mean like two things can happen at the same time i've been like i've been i've been a gym instructor a lifeguard a personal trainer i've worked on poolside saunas steam rooms i've been around semi-clothes women my whole life i've never had a complaint how am i how am i suddenly this guy see me again through all that then and if the dark clouds come over you you've been accused everything you've lost your jobs people around you have lost their jobs your wife and kids would no doubt feel their effects but when did it come on top for you mentally because you'd have been in survival mode not known really where to go where to turn but when did it come on top for you mentally well we're just as i said we just escaped we just went somewhere where our friends let us stay and then the hounds the hounds came they were just there man the press were out the hounded my mom hounded my mom eight-year-old woman hounded her do you know what i mean i think one of them forced her to say something at some stage you know what i mean like well your son your son eight-year-old woman they were outside my house for like eight weeks six weeks maybe like my neighbors were telling them to fuck off and throwing shit out like it was just it was on top the statement statement came out immediately like um sorry for this i believe some of my actions have affected people in ways i did not realize i'm sorry but i didn't mean you think i wrote that statement i was not even coherent that statement was written by a woman that ran into the fire when everyone was running out and i i got nothing but love for her but she didn't know me she didn't know me so she had to kind of just balance it in you know that was almost the worst thing that ever happened because the moment i said that people like well you must be guilty and in my heart i just knew like well no like i'm guilty of being a normal person and making mistakes for sure but no no but she wrote she wrote that statement fine like obviously i would have had to sign off on it but mate i do not remember anything it was just like the darkest sort of i just can't and everybody ran everybody ran all those people on that zoom that said business as usual and all this kind of stuff they ran excuse me agents ran employees ran broadcasters ran bbc put out a statement like we'll never we're not going to work on any clark projects why because of comments on dr hoot from 2004 alleged comments on dr hoot from 2004 comments itv pulled viewpoint off the air sky council bulletproof my employers suspended us kicked us out eventually took our company i got kicked off shows i created their shows i created i got kicked off i got my name taken off scripts have written i was in the padding paddington animated show they put out a statement we're gonna not play any episodes where his voice is what's my voice gonna do what's my voice gonna do come out the tv and and molest people what's my voice gonna do like it's it was unreal unreal but like if that's happening to someone then they better have done some i mean they got we've done some real crazy shit right because there's there's footballers and other people that are doing allegedly doing shit and keeping their jobs the clubs are going well this is you know this has happened we're going to wait to the outcome of any proceedings and then we're going to decide what we're going to do i didn't get any of that stuff there's certain people that um when their things came out they were told oh well we'll delay their shows um until further notice or they've kept their agents there's actors being accused of things 10 times worse you kept their agents i lost everything in 24 hours every single thing i worked for for 20 years was gone in 24 hours you ever saw seito yeah like i was just like what's the point i feel like we got to where we were going and then i was just it was just early on i was like i'm out of here i'm done i can't understand why i can't understand why so i understand why you would do this to someone for people to do this to you this is evil i don't care like what people want to go yeah but you know this is evil for people to want to do this to you you had to be evil i'm not evil i know that i don't even now two years later i can see i don't care what they call me because i know i'm not that but at the time it was just the worst i hate fucking people like this i hate it i'm a guy i'm the guy that saw a woman getting beaten up and i was one of only two men that tried to stop it guy pulls a knife on me and then she tells me to mind my fucking business but i was there man i was there like stop you want to stop hitting her bro like you're gonna stop hitting her and me i'm a guy that opens doors for women i was reading vagina monologues when my mates were still laughing at the word i was tweeting about period poverty when mates are still making jokes about keeping away well i keep away from the missus for five days and i'm like may grow up do you know what i mean i offer seats in the tube until i got told i was positively discriminating do you know what i mean why draw for me that seat would you have offered it to an able-bodied man she was right though i had to really think about it i go i'm actually you're right but i wasn't doing it to be a positive discriminator i was i was raised to be polite do you know what i mean now i don't do that i'm not doing it the grim the grim reaper's got to be on your shoulder or the baby's got to be waving at me if i ain't seeing one of those two things you ain't getting a seat i'm just sitting there like that's how i am now but that's how i'm raised bro like when a funeral procession goes by you take your health when a woman needs a table you stand up you open doors you got for seats you know what i mean like it's just a work i can't stand people like this this where i'm from you don't harm kids you don't do shit to women like that's the standard procedure you're wrong you're wrong and so for them to label me this is it's so fucking far from who i am it's not even this it would be funny if it wasn't so devastating we ever close to take middle life yeah yeah there's two days in particular i can i carried the knife in my pocket for like six weeks and then there was one day i was just like yeah this is the day man i think they were going for a walk or whatever and i was like yeah this is the day and then my son asked me to get something on the shelf and it fell out my pocket and he said why have you got that honey it kind of just jolted me a bit and i was like uh it's to clean the dirt out my nails and he was like okay and i just thought okay just put it away just put it away that was that was the day um and it was another day when um i was really getting down there again and and this actor friend called me and him and his wife spoke to me for four hours on the phone four hours so there's been there's been people you know there's been some people that have that have been there but generally most people run but my wife my wife's there she read this she read it she knows these people she knows who's involved she knows these people she's seen what they've done who they are one of them was texting with texting her i'm praying for you and then the fucker was involved in the whole dog absolute fucking dog text her like two days in i'm praying for you hope you're okay and then we find out that he's involved in the whole thing and i say he because it's a guy do you know what i mean it's like it's so it's complex but like if you're painted as this then you you know you are right the police to this day and this is the main thing you know people need to understand you know the papers tried to print this thing again this same one this just sharon carly they printed this thing about it's been dropped for lack of evidence that's not true i wasn't reported there were no complaints the first contact i had with police was months after when i reported the false allegations i reported some false allegations on blackmail that was happening that was all kind of involved in it and i reported these things i went to the police i sat in there for three days going through him right right this person this is this is what is showing them all the evidence showing them all this this this this i reported it you know it wasn't a joke mate they took it seriously i had the police come around my house detectives come around my house and go mr clark female detectives mr clark if we look into these false allegations and they turned out not to be false you know we're gonna have to come back and get you are you sure you want to go forward with this i said yeah go ahead go ahead and they went off and they came back a few weeks later and they're like we can't take any of this for ever i said why not why not why not there's no allegations made against you we've checked all the systems across across the police forces there's no there's no reports there's no complaints there's no allegations made against you i said how do i get that in writing i said you apply for your freedom of information under that you apply for your right of access under the freedom of information act it will take a few months so how do i do that send me the things and i've done that and i applied for that paperwork and i applied for it in february got it in july you've never been reported for anything in your whole life ever no matter where i'm from or my friends all the things my friends done i've never been reported for anything in my whole life have you got any charges nothing any conviction nothing so say everybody turned their back against you family friends yeah people you've worked with not family not family so yeah but you can understand all those accusations one or two you think you know what i'm going to have your back to end you're thinking fuck me like that's a lot yeah they're right you could probably understand how people walked away but what about with fashley walkers who you've worked with through the years who you've been take with like how did that go with him did he have your back he did not but it's just you know i've seen him i'm you know i'm fed up with people controlling my narrative and you know a lot of people don't notice i've seen him we've spoken um and i won't say what we've spoken about but i will say this like i've never seen actually behaving in any way shape or form like that and he's never seen me behave like that that's to be all an end all right but also when i saw him i just said to him i would have never i would never have done that to you i just wouldn't have done it to you right and it's not about it's not about slamming anyone or give a lot i love the guy we we've been through so much together from from from being people that didn't know each other didn't really like each other to becoming like in my pocket like we were in each other's pocket that's my that's my guy and i still right now i'd be like that's my guy like i don't have no bad words to say about him but you know people do what they have to do because they have to do you know what i mean it's like what what's he supposed to do if if if if he if he stood by me then he would have got blasted and i don't mean because he'd done anything he would have just got blasted and that's the same with everyone else we're talking about if people stood by me they would have just got blasted do you know what i mean and so i got nothing but love from you know you see that then why people kind of turn their back but again if it's a brother if it's loyalty for me i'm sticking by my my boys until they're fucking that death like if it comes out and people are chas left right center people get prison i've got a lot of fucked up i'm sorry yeah i had to have his back that's the way i've been raised that's the way i've been brought up that's the way i've been raised to have somebody's back one million percent man like one of your boys phones you and you're there and it's the worst thing you could ever see and they need your help that's when you're there now you've got to help them what i will learn through therapy is like we can't expect everyone to be the way we are that's been a real tough lesson for me real tough lesson because i think part of my my my flaws and part of my failings is like if i give you the shirt off my back sometimes i think people give me the shirt off their back and actually you have to realize not everyone not everyone's like that people are different i'm a communicator you know i'm a hugger i'm very tactile you know he says their lawyers are writing that down tactile um yeah do you know what i mean so so but other people aren't like that you know you meet someone you ain't seen in years and you go to hug them and they go good to meet you and you're like fuck is wrong with you shaking man thanks do you know what i mean but people people are different so uh yeah i got love for him man and i hope one day that you know i think the best thing that i could i the one thing i know he said was that um that i will say is that he wouldn't mind doing the show again one day and so if they if anyone actually looked at this and went like why did we actually cancel this guy's life let's pick up that show let's do the show we had we had such a banging season ready to go he's busy now i'm not busy but the things like this can change the game and change everything let's see everything that you went through with no charges pressed no investigation have you ever had a sorry no from no one at no point bath bath down you know as i as i said at the beginning like not the beginning when we're talking about it like the way they acted um up until that point we can't can't make a complaint but afterwards they were disgraceful they put out a statement 700 and some in words you know they their statement for harvey was like 200 words and they had parties for that guy every year do you know what i mean like 700 words like what like what do you know what i mean and then you know and it just went from there they've disrespected my membership my took rescinded my award took my suspended my award did just like and there's been no there's no there's no sorry there's no kind of like well hold on a second there's been no charges no investigation let's let's kind of all go let's all take a breath and go do you know what here's it back here's a restart here's a second chance and you know what i'm not even saying second chance because i'm like i i i in my opinion like why do i need a second chance this was this was deeper than people think it's not a case of i'm sitting here like boo james i've done all these things please forgive me it's like i'll hold my hands up me like i'm not i'm not perfect i'm i'm flawed i've been flawed since i was young i've been a drama magnet since i was young i've been tricky my weird guy like you know what i mean i just am i'm like but a lot of people are do you know what i mean half half 80 percent of the actors i know i've done worse on on that list and on a weekend that can and 50 percent of the women i don't smoke i don't party i don't do any drugs i don't i don't go out like there's a lot of people that can't say that and i think if you're if you're a newspaper that's gonna blast people then you need to make sure the people that you're using to blast them have not been acting in ways that are worse than he's been acting but that that will that's all that's all gonna come out like it's it's all gonna come out it one way or another it's gonna come out like if it comes out in court great if if i don't if i don't get there and it has to come out a different way it's gonna come it's gonna come out like i can't you can't just you can't just do this to people you just can't do this to people do you know what i mean it's not you literally just turn somebody's life upside down for for now what i'm sitting in limbo it's not even like i've gone in there and been like okay he's out of trial or anything like that absolutely nothing to be no child is well i could just be a supervillain and they're hitting it all these years but i actually fucking speak to those mad bastards that we've all got had an agendas we've all got madness go wild up wrong they made out like i'm a supervillain like i'm not only the sorry to interrupt you but that's what they did man they was like it was a secret so immediately everyone who had never heard it all my agents and all the people that never heard it was like it's a secret that's why we never knew it was very clever it was very very very clever they made out like not only were they doing these things but i was villainous enough to keep it devious yeah yeah horrible man for women who like i don't let there's plenty of victims out there i've had plenty of survivors on the show so i know how hard that is for people to come forward but if these women are making up lies and they come together these women should be sent to prison these women should be getting the book thrown at them do you know what i mean there's no convictions against you there's no charges there's no investigations so something's not right no it's like yes the bottom to it and let i don't have all the answers for the people who's come forward but i can only take it from what you showed me the things that you've you've put across to me and it's something's not right you ain't seen the half of it man and and the thing is is it's you know i'm honest enough to sit here and go it's not just lies some of it's got elements of truth in it there's like there's embellishment and there's context and stuff like that do you know what i mean it's like it's like did he tell you off of being late yeah he did but you didn't say why you like do you mean there's context and stuff like that but what i will say is like i don't feel like women have to do and if women don't owe us nothing men are still the problem right generally femicide is an endemic it's a it's a problem the treatment of women is a problem like you know i think what needs to be looked at like i said earlier is is in is intent as well like you can't you shouldn't blast a guy for having sex his opinions who you've not tried to educate who you've not tried to change who you've not spoken to you know is a difference right you got i know we probably run out of time edit but you got let's say you got like boy a boy b and boy c and they all kick puppies and boy a kicks a puppy and he's caught kicking the puppy they all kick these puppies right you catch boy a and you're like hey you don't ever kick them fucking puppies man and he's like he cries i'm so sorry i didn't realize that puppies felt pain blah blah blah and you're like all right cool you know i mean just don't do it again and he goes off and he becomes a pet shop i'm gonna whatever like that you go to boy b you don't kick those puppies and boy b's like fuck you man i'll kick any puppies i want i'm gonna kick more puppies the moment i get out of here i'm gonna kick more puppies and you're like these guys are wrong and and there's a lot of them you know these guys are wrong and all right you're banned from the park you're banned from anywhere we don't want you around dogs whatever like that he's like fuck you whatever like that and then you got boy c and boy c is the same as boy a he's like i'm so sorry i'm so sorry like i read the meaning but society punishes him the same as boy b like it's different and if you keep punishing boy c's like boy b you're just gonna get him angry you're gonna get him angry when they're gonna fester and they're gonna get wild and then one day the anger's gonna come out and then a boy c becomes a boy b as well like you have to look at intent you have to look at like just because somebody may have sex his views it doesn't make them a sexist and you know what i can say that because when other people want to use it they use it when people want to cover racism they go unconscious bias well maybe i had some unconscious bias i need to work on that so you know why can't there be unconscious sex and why can't it be there's some guys who have got views that if you sat them down and educated them they would lose those views because if they can if that can happen with unconscious bias then it can happen here right and there's some guys that just don't want to learn but i think we need to be able to identify intent we need to be able to go right these people could the ones that can't be educated and are a problem they should be jailed cast out whatever i don't believe anyone's life should be cancelled but they should be whatever but if you can educate right you can educate and you can change people and you can show them for example if they really thought they really looked at that stuff and goes well there's actually nothing criminally or these things we can't prove whatever but we want to blast them anyway right you could have spoken to times up they could have spoke to times up they could have spoke to all my agents they could have spoke to all this stuff without the newspaper stuff right they didn't have to ruin my life they could have done all that kind of stuff and they could have come to me and gone we think you've done all these things what do you have to say about it and we are going to do a story and if it was real if it was all real and i'd be like you know i'm so sorry i did not realize that i was perceived that way i did not realize i was doing these things how can i help you how can i change how can i be better which is what we should all do because even in my statement i'm so sorry i'm sorry if anyone ever felt away i really am genuinely sorry if i've made anyone feel certain ways i am but it doesn't make you that person right so if you go i want to change how can i help and they go this is how you can change you can be a you can you can start actually educating another can you imagine the ally that someone like myself if that was all real and someone like myself came out and went i'm really grateful i won this thing but you know what i've realized has come to my attention over the years i've possibly been inappropriate at times and blah blah blah and i'd like to take this opportunity to go i'm here to change and i'm going to be an example for all other guys to be better and you know what the truth is james i still want to be that i want to be that guy that can take this experience and say to other guys mate don't flirt don't say that keep your head down do your work have fun but not too much like do you know what i mean because i'm not one of those people that believe there should be no flirting there should be no interaction i think like we should live with humans right but at the same time if i can help other people and stop other people from creating resentment and getting women and we all actually from creating real victims like i would love to be that guy but i would have been that i was i thought i was doing it anyway i thought i was a ally anyway honestly i'm a feminist i'm a philogenist i'm a person that i i respect as far as i knew as far as i thought i respected women you know what i mean but times have changed like you look on fucking tiktok and all the social media platforms girls are filming men and filming james men are maybe looking over and the guys are getting cold creeps this and that well now fucking we get there off end of the stick look fucking men are we i mean people are too scared to speak out like fuck everybody else yeah you can speak to people it's a way of communication you can't pass a flirtatious comment you can if you're single then you should be able to i see men try to talk to women and they're calling them fucking creeps and i'm thinking fucking shut up yeah i i i i i agree with you to the most point i think that we still are in a position like where i don't have to stand on a tube and a crowded tube and think someone's gonna touch my my my goodies in the tube i mean weirdly it has happened to me from a woman but that was years ago but like but that's that's a very rare rare thing you know what i mean but that's happened to family members of my do you know what i mean are women so we do get the rough end of the stick but no we do get the stick but i still think like it's balanced the other way like if i'm honest i don't have to i don't have to walk down an alleyway at night thinking someone's gonna pin me down and and you know of course stick shit in me like i don't do you know what i mean we might think we might get robbed or stabbed so i i still think there's there's an imbalance there and it's quite deep into these are quite a bit understanding but it's still out it's still out it's still our issue it really is but i think what harms me the most or hurts me the most is the fact that i've always thought that but they've painted me as as the opposite they've painted me as the opposite and when you see like when you see like you know i'm i'm i'm scattering it but when you see who's involved when you see like this guy that's been stalking me and harassing my family and all that kind of stuff is is that when when you start to see all of this kind of stuff you know it'll it'll it'll make sense when can you put all that stuff who's we're out of the minute it's just gonna be have to be in court in it what happened to you have steven bat that until you he pulled it down why ask him i think that he was you know because i've just done that interview two weeks before and then it was and i like the guy you know i mean and i was i was happy to be on it and all that and then he pulled it down my but my belief actually is that the bbc told him to do it not that it's any of their business but this is the kind of level of of cancellation that people were really trying to put on me it's like they were telling people that their own private things to just take it down you know after was deleting my pictures off their website and and taking my links they're like it's just it's like oh that's melly kid at school that's melly kid at school everyone ran away from the smelly kid at school and and no one's going what hold on why did he smell does he have parents at home is there's like nobody's cared my pr company supposed to this is their job stuff like the stuff like this happens that's what pr companies afford that's what you're paying them for they fucking ran ran and then put out a thing saying they had complaints from from a client it's fact this it's a mystery this is a woman i complained to them about six months previous i complained to them about her six months previous so this woman's been talking shit about me should we all have a sit down and iron it out and they were like no leave it leave it leave it and then in the papers it's like yeah man the whole thing is it's messy it is messy like i don't want to sit here and go as simple like i've i've my personality my my vibe my my energy my my sort of my patterns that i have because i cut people off right if you because of my loyalty and my patterns and you know my my grudges like uh what's his name the journalists i told you that said they're gonna play the figure the funeral and i was like who's funeral if someone wrongs me like that i just come off i just come off the roofless that way i don't there's no uh before you walk out the room i'm deleting your number i'm blocking like you can't contact me and people don't like that yeah people but also even if you don't do that you become successful people don't like that either yeah never mind just cutting them off because i've also got that grievance with a like you with that journalist for 15 years you're doing that to some of the hearts their feelings so they want to see you bad 100 so when they see you doing that they're thinking yes 100 100 100 percent but i think when you've cut people off and then you continue to succeed it burns them in a different way it burns them in a different way and i've you know i've you know i've not said anything here to jeopardize the thing but let me tell you something i have facts everything i have everything i'm saying to you or have i've not said to you or i've scared it around i hate you i've got facts i've got fact i've got fact i've got information i've got evidence to get everything at the time i was so lost like i've never seen death before like and i was literally there like i was so lost i i just was like just deny that tonight that's not true that's not true i need to look that as i said these lawyers this pr woman that came they didn't know me you know what i mean so i just said what i said but i've got i've got i've spent 18 months collecting everything i have everything i have everything why are you telling your story now because i'm not angry anymore i can sit here and smile i'm not angry anymore like if i even if i go to court with them and i lose i don't give a fuck man because what are they gonna call me if i lose someone's gonna go they will write you a bully in a sexual predator i know i'm not that i know i'm not that i'm i'm i'm i'm imperfect but i'm a i'm a father i'm a husband i'm a i'm a i'm a i'm a son i'm a friend i'm not perfect to any of those but i'm fucking great at them do you know what i mean and so if i lose you're gonna you're gonna say hammer down you are a bully you are a sexual predator and now you owe all this money well i ain't got it firstly i don't have it i don't have it so if you're gonna make my kids home this publicly you're gonna do that publicly i don't have it and you're gonna call me names you've already called me but you know what i'm gonna do i'm gonna show you who they are i'm gonna show you who they are i'm gonna show you what they did i'm gonna show you who's involved they're gonna show you how they did it and then everyone's gonna be like oh this is interesting so i i'm not angry anymore i forgive i forgive most of these people yeah that's the most important thing but that's a difficult thing you look at the johnny death case it's clear that women can be devious it's clear that women can fucking fuck shit up man and but like i say he's done this to me or he's done that any woman that says anything against a man the man's charged straight away yes the worst thing in the world there's no things to protect me there's no things in place wait a minute that she could be lying like the johnny death case has been so good for men to understand that wait a minute the shit that was made up to throw that under the bus he lost jobs he got kicked off pirates in the Caribbean repair bastard no but he's still johnny dip though yeah i'm not i ain't johnny dip and you could put all 20 of mine together it weren't as bad as what he was accused of but i'm still sitting here do you know what i'm saying i'm still sitting here like we've we've not we've absolutely nothing but i'm not i'm not angry anymore but things can change where do you go falls for the future brother i'm writing i'm writing i just want to work i'm not interest you know i'm not interested in friends but again i was never interested in friends um i just want to work man i just want to work and you know there there are people that have been there i can't even mention this is this is the level of i can't even mention the people that have been there for fear that they get targeted do you know what i mean it's crazy isn't it do you know what i mean um so for me i'm just now i just want to work man i want people i want these channel i want the channels to go old and actually why why did we do that actually like it's two years on like it's not even a you know and and you know i'm probably not going to get an apologies because they don't they don't do this but i just want to work sad to think that trying to bulge a career back but you've not been charged with anything you've not been investigating anything nothing nothing but whoever's done that is sitting at the big round table and they've they've clearly got some fucking pool you don't get that level of cancellation without fucking doing something where they think i don't like him well it's interesting i know we're wrapping up but this is interesting because actually what it comes down to is this right it's not really about i truly believe that some of these women believe their reality right because i said to someone the other day of psychology well this woman's lying she's like well that's their reality i truly but what's the word they use my truth i'm truly believe they've got their truth right well i've got my truth and my truth is the truth in my opinion right but i truly believe that it doesn't bother me because i know i i know what's what right and we're going we're going to get there right but i think what you have to understand is even if they had their anger and they did what they did the vitriol after the reaction afterwards all the cancellation that's based on other stuff that's based on we just don't like the sky because he's not supposed to be here i'm not supposed to be in me i should be in jail with my mates or have served my sentence and come out like i'm not supposed to be here i'm like i'm like the anomaly in the mage i'm like the i'm not supposed to be there single father single mother counsellor state rough area didn't do great in school i should not be here and every time they put an obstacle in my way i went around it over it under it and i kept succeeding every single time and every time they said you're not going to do it i was like i am going to do it they put me into they're like you're not going to do theater olivier you ain't going to do films but after you're not going to get in tv doctor who bulletproof like every time you know someone said i hate him he's not good enough he's not good the facts are there the facts are there people lying numbers don't write i'm not gonna you know people did not like what i was achieving they didn't like it and so the reaction was based on fear and resentment because there's people that don't look like me that never got this reaction there was a guy that ran his mouth about me oh this was outrageous and he he came out and they were like you mate you're a rapist and he was blasted like two weeks later and he's got the same treatment as me but it's not as bad as me he was drugging and raking raping people allegedly right he don't hear about him in the news his business partner never got ruined it's because of who i am i'm not supposed to be here i'm not supposed to be one of them i was never supposed to be one of them people like me do not get that award people like me do not succeed in this business and the thing is is i was helping other people like me get into the business so when they talk about change i was making a real change a lot of these diversity quotas that they put in a design to keep them in the positions of power that they have because if you make a quota you're letting people through you're basically all staying there and you're going well they will let one through we let two that's not how you change things you dismantle everything it's how you change things do you know what i'm saying and i was a disruptor i was a dismantler i was a threat to this very fabric of what it was and they didn't like that people don't like that i think this podcast we've got a good script for a film brother all we need is a happy ending i'm telling you getting over this obstacle can you see potentially writing a film about this i've written one if you're looking for a big handsome scotsman to play a part mate i'm that you can play the funny steve you can play the uh the villain freddy yeah i've i've i've written the um i've written the the movie that is about this whole situation it's fictional obviously it's a fictional character and but i've written that i've written other stuff i've been writing it just keeps as i said from being a little boy it just keeps me keeps me saying i put on my wrestling my wwe which i love in the background i just write i just write and look after my kids man we had we know another thing is you know we nearly didn't have our baby because of this like we nearly didn't have the baby because we're just like yeah kids nearly never had a father yeah they never had a father but every time i look at this baby i got to know that i nearly didn't have the kid because i was just like how can i bring this kid into this world where i might not be about but also what life can i give this kid that my other kids have been all right but now i got nothing like what can i give this kid so we we're very close to not having this kid sad and it's very sad everything you went through to try and try and reach the cream of the crop to then thinking you're not good enough to losing it all to be through under the bus to all the accusations everybody turning their back yeah for me man it just it makes you stronger it makes you stronger to kick on and then you already know the numbers how to be successful you've left the blueprint for people for people behind you i can fucking do it they don't want to be sitting here going through what you've went through but you're clearly strong enough to go through it for anybody that's watching that's maybe in the struggle that's maybe think there's no way out what advice would you have for them very cliche is like there's always light there's always light at the end of the darkness do you know what i mean and and it's not worth it's not worth ending it all you know i know as i said i now have to look at that kid all the time and know that i nearly didn't have that kid but for me i just have to be the best that i can be for that kid and for my other three boys do you know what i mean i just kind of for me anyone who's thinking about taking a life or anyone who's thinking about harming themselves or anyone that's been through what i've been through whether they're guilty and want to learn the lesson but i'm not giving it being about i'm not being giving the opportunity to say they want to change or whether they're innocent or whether there's somewhere in between it's like you can change and you can be better and you can be an example for other people and use your experience to show other people away i think the first phone call we had i says to you you've got healthy kids you've got a message who loves you you're already winning you did say that everything else is glitz and glam everything else you did say that i really mean for call you're already winning brother you did say that would you like to finish up on anything no man i don't have any jerry springer final thoughts or anything i'm just like i've just enjoyed the chat man it's like wise listen no thanks for coming on today mate i appreciate it i wish you nothing but greatness and success in the future i hope everything gets resolved and i hopefully get the apology this year brother thank you very much god bless you take care my man