 Can you hear me? The anniversary. Thank you. Thank you. It was the photo on the right, right? Yeah. You could tell by the outfit. I'm old enough to know the future. Right, intense long hair. Sneakers. And sneakers, right? Okay. So I would like to call to order the South Burlington City Council meeting of Tuesday, September 3rd, 2019, and will rise for the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. Item two, instructions on exiting the building in case of emergency. Case of emergency tonight. If there is one, please leave this room by one of these two doors. Go through our parking lot and gather south of the building beyond us in the parking lot in the next building. If for some reason these two doors are blocked, please go back out through the lobby and out the main entrance and around to the same parking lot. Tom Hubbard and I will be responsible for making sure the building is clear. Agenda review. Are there any additions, deletions, or changes in the order of business? Okay. Seeing none, we'll move on to number four, comments and questions from the public not related to the agenda. So Mr. Ganda, is he the only one who has comments not related? My name is Ray Ganda. I'm from 27 Pinnacle Drive, South Burlington. I'm in a unique situation, almost a unique situation with having three front yards and one side yard with practically no room to put anything on in that side yard because of a slope and because half of that area is already built. I had an addition onto our garage that just got completed in January. So I've got this little patch that's part of my side yard. Now the problem is this. I have a camper and I can't park my camper because I can't park those things in a front yard throughout the year. It has to be in a back yard. I have no back yard according to city LDRs. Okay. So when I checked Google Earth, I looked over about half the city in residential areas very carefully and I found one other property that had three roads around it and I sort of loosely perused the rest of the city and didn't find any more, but I didn't make that second half an exact search. So there's only one out of my knowledge that exists. So I feel that it just deprives me of the use of my property. Just straightforward. And I think that's unfair. And I think it could be fixed very simply by either issuing a waiver on the rule for my particular property because of not having a back yard or maybe altering the LDRs to reflect something like the front yard is where your address is at. If, for example, mine's 27 Pinnacle, that would not be on Spear Street. It would be on Pinnacle Drive and that would solve the problem, but that would apply to the whole city too. So anywhere there's houses that have three front yards or two front yards, it would probably apply to them also. So every corner lot, in other words. Yeah. I guess. Yeah. I have a diagram here that nowhere did I really read a definition straightforward of what a front yard is. Basically what there is is a diagram that shows you how many sides there's a city street on and they label that part front yard. So it's an implication rather than a definition. So this is the only information I have that's, I went through the whole, I don't know what it is, the LDRs I guess, right? And that was all I could find that sort of tells you what a front yard is. And it gives an example. Mine is the first example. That's a very prominent position in this list. Can I ask a question? I think so. It's not a deliberation, but just to understand. Sure. I asked one, why not you? Is this something that someone from the city told you, prevented you from parking your camper on one or other side of your house? Or is it just you being a super, you know, diligent citizen and making sure you're. No, I've got a homeowner association with some cowboys who are running the architectural review board and are making their decisions by the seat of their pants and they're not very wise decisions. And one of them is telling me you don't have a back yard so you can't park your camper. So right now I'm paying four to $500 a year to park a camper over across shadow cross farm over in Colchester. And I'd really prefer to have it where I have access to it. So that's the primary thing. And looking, I mean, if one is either through a waiver declared a back yard, I don't see how that, I don't think that would impact any of the setbacks on any of the roads. The setbacks are different depending on what kind of a road it is, whether it's a main road like Spear Street or a feeder road like Pinnacle Drive. The setbacks are different points. I think from Spear it's 50 feet, from Pinnacle it's 20 feet. So your setback from Spear Street is 50 feet? Yeah. At least. At least. Yeah. And you can't park anything. And I haven't figured out whether that's from the center line or. To the HOA. Shouldn't you go in and talk to Planning and Zoning to see who has your. What they did and what they said was, well, we're going to deny the waiver and then you'll pay some money and you'll go to the. Who said that? Homeowners? I'll just say the planning. Oh, staff. Oh, okay. Oh, you have been in. Okay. And I originally wanted to come here because Paul Blair, Ray Blair, when I first made my inquiry said, well, this is where you've got to go because they can't make those decisions. And when I did go to get some information, some detailed information, which I also had, ultimately had to get myself. The staff member there is new and she didn't really know what was going on. So she was running back and forth to. I don't know. Probably all Connor. I don't know. Maybe there's somebody else. And as I said, I was told that they would deny it and then I would pay some money and then go to the DRB and plead my case there. So pay some money for a permit or something? For the. Yeah. I guess. The application. Application. So that's where it stands now. And so I reverted after hearing that, I said to myself, well, they're going to deny it already. It's prejudiced against me. So why not do what Ray Blair said and do what I originally intended to do since I had already sent you an email six months ago on this and just run it by you and see what happens. So this is an agenda tonight, but Ray and I talk and I asked him to come in early to talk about this, at least get it on the radar. But the question is, I don't know whether the problem is with the HOA more than is with the city at this point. And I don't know if Ray can even answer that. But I don't know where to take conversation from here. Right. We can't overrule an HOA. I mean, I guess you could take it to court or something, but. No, no way. Ray, if you don't mind, why don't I, I will check into this. I'll check with planning and zoning tomorrow. Understand what the planning and zoning issues are and the path forward and be in touch with you with a recommendation on what you might want to do. Okay, but I'll just make one further comment in discussing, you know, I wasn't really just, wasn't a discussion, it was just a few comments with the current chair of the architectural review board in our homeowner's association. He's the one that says, well, you don't have a backyard. But the association does allow the association covenants do allow a camper to be parked in the backyard. It's just that I'm up against the city's definition of backyard. So they're, they're leaning on the city's definition of backyard. Right. And I think illegitimally, I mean, I think that's your task, not their task. But if it's okay with you, Ray, I will, I'll talk with planning and zoning. We'll figure out how to address this issue and then, and then talk with you about it. Okay. There may, there may need, believe it or not, there may need to be an LDR change, but I'll find that out and then we'll talk to you about the process forward. Okay. Great. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Okay. Thank you. Announcements and the city manager's report. So, Tom, any announcements? Sure. Three things. This Saturday from one to three p.m., you're all invited to, if you like, to be walking East Terrace and Spear Street, handing out welcome bags for the University of Vermont to the non-owner occupied residences, as I've been doing the last four years. Always a good time. We're calling back to my RA days back at the University, trying to welcome the students and just hand out a small flyer. Do you want us to print that out? I think I can handle it. But a flyer with all the city of South Burlington, relevant pieces of information, who to contact and so on. September 18th, I'm really excited to be going to a municipal budget workshop hosted by the Vermont Leagues of Cities and Towns down in Montpelier. So, maybe I'll ask less questions this budget cycle. And then also, I just had a great meeting with Micah Genzlinger. We are moving forward to have the very similar to last time, Fire Fighters Awards recognition banquet and it will be, again, the Pat NOAC annual memorial event and it's going to be late March-ish. So, more information to come. Great. Thank you. Megan? No, nothing to report. Okay. David? No, nothing to report. Well, I attended the Economic Development Council being last Monday with my wife, Katie O'Brien, to give a brief overview of the progress of the painting of the utility boxes. Oh, yes. Our Go Fund Me campaign has, I think it's pretty much surpassed $400, so that's working out very well and replenishing all the supplies. There were at least 22 boxes to go. I think a number of boxes have been done in the last week. You know, if you see they're popping up, there's a panda up at there. There are some cows faces down by Talbott's, right on Shubburn Road. Oh, those I haven't seen. Yeah. Those are brand new today, I think. There's paint. There's some sheep or something? Yeah. Yeah. They're just everywhere. Yeah. You can't miss a thing. And more to come. So, that was just a, you know, early agenda item to give a status update. And then I came back later for the Recreation Center update and sort of design, you know, meeting. Since you know so much about them as they're being done, they go through Kate, your wife? Yeah. Yeah. Everything goes through Kate. Okay. Yeah. She sees the design before they actually go up on the box. Right. She has to see the design and it doesn't have to be a design or at least some kind of a design. Right. And she tells you what box is available. And so if you were having. Is she going to move forward to any of those funny, great looking sidewalk crossings that we saw back with the Chamberlain neighborhood? Does she want to start painting the sidewalks, the crosswalks? The problem with crosswalks is that my daughter did one at the high school. It lasted about six months and the one up by the U Mall at the high school was about three weeks, four weeks. So it's all dependent upon the amount of traffic and the weight of the traffic. So unless you're using some really resistant compound heated material that like, you know, adheres as opposed to just paint, it doesn't have a good longevity. You're going to paint the lines on all the streets every year. Right. And they're in the middle. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Does she have pictures of all of them? Yeah. Because I was thinking that when we exhaust those utility boxes, it would be really cool to have like a poster made with a picture of all of them. That could be kind of fun. I mean, just as a sort of cool thing to have, hang on the wall or something, just so we can see them. That would be a great trivia contest. Where are these boxes? Yeah. Number them one through 60. Well, in my walks, we see a lot of them and we're always like, oh. I think Cora Lee is working on a way to try to get them up onto the website. That'd be great. So that people want to see them. I have a document I have to give to her. Yeah. I think we have it. Maybe you have it? Yeah. It was a pretty good size. Yeah. So the utility boxes. Yeah, exactly. The last thing is that she's been working with VTrans. And I said working, right? With VTrans for quite a while now to get permission to paint their boxes. And she finally did, but then it came through with you can't paint the front of the box on the sides. So that took another few days of wrangling and they agreed and so now it's they can, she can paint any side of VTrans, traffic control boxes, but we still can't paint green mountain power boxes. Still can't paint GMP. We're working on it. If anybody has any connections, let me know. Oh, get it. Connections. That was just an idea. I remember there used to be posters like the doors of Vermont. What about the utility boxes of South Burlington? Yeah. You got 25 of them? Yeah. Exactly. That's sort of what I was thinking. Sort of a collage of all the different boxes. Right. Vote on their favorites. Benches. Is she going to do benches? She's done a few benches already. Yeah. You said there was one on doors that I can't find it on. It's right across the Nicholas Drive. Close to the Memorial Park entrance. Oh, okay. Thank you. That was great. I appreciate it. I love driving around and saying, there's a new one. Let's see. So I have had a couple of meetings. Let's see. That comes later. So I could have an airport commission meeting. But I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know what I'm going to do. But I had appliances viennent meeting. But I met with the mayor of Burlington, RODW WarnerBerger. And the mayor of Wienewski. And we continue to work on a memorandum of understanding. What was a final draft? But they had weighed in their legal team and came back with some additional languages and some updating so it was accurate about when things were going to happen. Kristen and I still had a few issues that the mayor will go back and try to resolve. I have asked him for a copy, because I wrote all of her minds, so I didn't think it made sense to make copies of this for you all, but I am attempting to get a copy of this so I can share with you, because I think once, I would love your feedback. One issue that I think they're going to review, but that was added was the way it's organized. As I've said in the past, we have things that Burlington will do, things that South Burlington will do, and things that Manuski will do. And one of them that was on our list was to commit the forefunding of the local match using the local options taxes collected from the fuel tax. And I got a lot from aviation jet fuel, but yes, it was something, but I just didn't think we really wanted to have that absolutely committed to a noise mitigation program, which we don't know what that looks like yet. I said, likely we could use that, but I wanted more flexible language. No, maybe you're all comfortable with that. I just thought, hmm. I don't think that should be the only source of information. No, no, no. But it just says, commit to funding local match portions of all NCP grants using the allocated local option taxes collected from aviation jet fuel sales. If we're really going to talk about this, we should probably ask the state to throw theirs in too. What did they use for local match for the original program? They were stated that. Were they there? He did not know. So we talked about that. And but they just, at this point, just don't believe they have the capacity. The airport doesn't have the capacity to come up with that local match at all or in full. Well, I think at all they just are opposed to that. But I mean, that's a position that you start with, right? So we're working on these things. This isn't a final draft. So I'll be happy to share it with you. And they did scratch out. We had asked for a commitment to monitor actual sound levels on a regular basis. And they scratched that out. But we have a commitment from the mayor to consider that and go back. Because I had thought that that was part of the original teardown funding. And Marou did not remember that. So I should follow up on that and find out if that was. I mean, because I thought, Tom, I thought you had done some research and said, well, they were supposed to be doing this. Here's the language. But I can't remember where the language came from. From the FAA. Oh, from the FAA. It was their language. The NCP had that as one of the mitigation measures. The last NCP. Oh, since the beginning, or since 2006 even. Yeah, no, it was. Well, they were with me, except I remember hearing that we had that. And I thought we didn't think that was outlandish. But it's still a work in progress. And then we're still hoping for some language that gives us a little more input on the final draft. And to be quite honest, now it was reported in the press that the other basis, where if the F-35 is flying out of, they're using the afterburner at least 50%, 5-0% and not 5%, which is what was approved. Yes, I'm aware of that. But anyway, so we continue on this MOU conversation. And I think the mayor hopes that, again, I'd love your feedback, that this might be a template for future FAA programs that they apply to that affect these communities, in terms of there's a lot of process in here. So I'll have you read it in that light as well. So we don't have to go through this every single time. When do we review and are we able to give feedback on this draft that the mayor gives you? When I get a copy of it, I will send it around. And there's three different colors on here already with different feedback. So that was one meeting. We met with school leadership and discussed a number of things. I don't know if there's anything brand new. It seemed to be a fairly amicable meeting. You shared with us the options that they're looking at. Right, they did. They gave us a copy of the printout. And they're going forward with whatever their plan is. I can't remember. Did we discuss the WREC plan with them? Well, I was going to cover that. Oh, OK. I'll let you do that. But yeah, we did talk about it. OK. I think that's all the meetings that I had to report on. And when it's time, I'll do the airport planning. OK. City managers report. Thanks, Ellen. Did you want to talk about the NCP, the technical advisory committee meeting, the last one on the 19th? Right. Well, that's under your committee or something like that. Well, you can. Yeah, just for the public, what has been deemed as the final committee meeting, the final meeting of the technical advisory committee to the noise compatibility program is at 5 PM on September 19th at the airport. So we will be there in the other communities as well. Well, I guess I could elaborate on that. In this conversation with Moreau, and he actually got on the phone with Jean, I guess that they are anticipating the TAC committee seeing the first draft. And then we said, well, great, but we need some time to respond to that. Because I didn't think we'd had the kind of dialogue that we needed about that. The TAC tended to be, those meetings tended to be information from the consultants. The TAC would ask a few questions. They would say, oh, we'll look into that. And they would get back with us. But there was never a conversation about anything like, wow, we like this. We don't like this. It was just questions. So I think they're considering either a 10 or 14 day review so that our TAC committee can bring that first draft or final draft back to the council so we can read it and give input and get input from the community. And then in October, the beginning of October will be another public hearing and a final submittal they're anticipating by the end of the year. So we're still working. Christine and I or Kristin and I are still working on, so how do we really comment, not just provide input that gets included in the report, but comment on, we like this language and we don't like this language. This sounds good for our community. And we don't think you heard it right on this topic. So that's still under discussion about how that really works out. Although Jean Richards has said, that's the whole process. But we're looking for a little more tangible agreement that we actually will get that last bite at the apple. I still say I think the FAA is somebody to reach out to. Richard Doucette. They're required by law and the regulations to include stakeholders in this process. Well, yes, I think the argument or difference of opinion is how one includes a stakeholder. And that can be defined differently. And you can disagree with that. I'd like to know from someone at the FAA if their interpretation is correct or not. So that would be good to bring up at the TAG meeting for sure. I won't be in attendance at that. But you will, yeah. I can go. What day of the week is it? It's a Thursday. I think it's a Thursday. Yeah, I think I'll be able to go. The 19th is a Thursday. It's 5 o'clock. Also, Economic Development Committee met last week. They're planning their year ahead. And of course, looking forward to the big committee symposium where they will report out. But one of the things they really want to have happen this year is, year ahead, they really want me making more contacts with businesses. So going out in a more structured way to talk to business people in their office. I have been doing that some when time permits. But they would like it to be more of a meeting. So I'll start building that in right away. I've been working. Andrew and I went to a meeting with Vermont League of Cities and Towns last week. And we have been working on some ideas around local control issues. Vermont is, as we know, it's what's called a Dylan's Rule State, which means our authority seemingly, I'll say seemingly right now. Seemingly drives from the authority of the state. And there have been efforts over the many, many years to give more authority to the local communities and make decisions on their own without having to go back to the legislature. So VLCT has been kicking around some ideas. There's a bill that is in, that has passed the Senate in a pretty watered down way, wondering whether or not that's even meaningful anymore. But it could be something as small as we bumped into this issue a month or so ago about the workload on the Planning Commission. And whether or not we should appoint, or the council should appoint, two more members to make it nine rather than seven. But lo and behold, our charter says it's seven. So to change that, we'd have to go back to the voters, ask for their permission, and then we'd have to go back to the legislature and ask their permission for something as meaningless, so to speak, in their eyes, but important to us. So anyway, we're doing some more work, and we've got a meeting on that in two weeks back at VLCT. The consultants for the proposed Recreation Center were here last Monday, and he held a day full of meetings. Then it concluded with a public forum here that some of you, most of you, were at. Yeah, almost all of you. It was a good series of meetings. One of the meetings was with the school district. I'll talk about that under city school collaboration in a moment. There's a survey out on the street. My understanding is some 600 people have responded to the survey so far. And they will be back. The consultants will be back on the 17th for another set of meetings. 17th of September? September, yeah. Recall that we're kind of moving this forward. The study part of this at the request, in conjunction with the school district, as they need to be meeting their obligations to get a ballot to the voters possibly in March on their plans. And as discussions have gone, their plans could incorporate some of our needs or not. And I'll talk about that in a minute. But they needed to get some answers from us as to what our program would be. So we're moving the front end of this along pretty quickly. And then Megan, you had asked about the status of DuPont and some PFOA issues. We have done some research on that. And Andrew will meet with the council on executive session to discuss that either at the next meeting or at the following meeting. And we'll have more information for you at that time. Given that it's a legal issue, we need to do that in executive session. But we have completed that research. OK, thank you. Reports from our committee assignments. Tom, anything from transportation? OK. I'm loving the bus. I love it. I can pull you on that. Yeah, you can. When was it? I think two weeks ago. The IZ Open Space Committee had the last meeting. We did not have a quorum, but we were able to kind of, at least with members present, be able to discuss various scenarios that now I think we're going to be reviewing at our meeting tomorrow night with the hope that that just is going to give us the final kind of path to issue our final report. So we're getting close. We're getting close. And it's good. We have diversity on the board. And we really see that all of the various studies we've had in the city on natural space, that they've really balanced all these various things. That's, again, being re-actualized as our committee members also present a very diverse set of viewpoints that show that we're just looking for a balance between these different things that we are balancing. Forests, wildlife, viewpoints, ag, all these things. There's not going to be one main kind of driving factor. It's really going to be a balance. Great. Nothing unofficially, though. We decided today, I think, according to the email that we Dorset Park Skating Association rinks. I just wanted people to know what we are talking about. Right. Just to clarify, in case people wonder, we're not going to break ground for the addition to the rinks until spring, April, early May. It's just logistical. We could do it. Now we wanted to get the foundation in and the steel up this fall, but in order to do that, we have to change the emergency entrances for rink two. It just gets complicated just when we're going to busy skating season. That makes much more sense to wait till spring when the high school skating season is over and the ground falls. And we've got guaranteed pricing, so it didn't make any difference at all. But in case people wonder what happened to the addition for the arena that's going to start in the spring, it should be done by shortly after this time or next fall. So I just thought I would let folks know. Right. Thank you. We being Dorset Parks Skating Association. Well, you have lots of we's. But we. I just have one thing. Yes. So I missed the last Sobu night out, and I'm sorry. But I had to go to the Champlain Valley Fair. It was the only time I could go. But I had family members that said it was a great time. And Dave Grippo, Grippo Funk Band, was incredible again. So I just want to say thank you to Parks and Rec staff for a wonderful summer of Sobu bites and food trucks and fireworks. And we had good weather every time, right? It didn't rain once on us, didn't get canceled. So what a great summer. Summer's not over yet, but. But Sobu nights are. Thank you, Holly and staff. Thank you. So the airport, the regular airport committee meeting was last Wednesday. Implainments are up. There's the surplus or the revenue is up. There are more cars using the parking. Those revenues are up. So in terms of kind of the financial position of the airport and its use, it seems to be improving or increasing. So that's all good. Jimmy Lee's came and gave a very passionate discussion about the military jets and why he's opposed. And it's a war crime in his opinion. But I think it was very well delivered and certainly a different perspective than the airport management and V-Tank. But I thought he made some good points. The commissioner indicated that they're going to have a new display in October and November on the Abnaki culture and history in Vermont. They're doing a recycling push, so there are no longer plastic bottles will be sold at the airport. You have to bring your own. And they're working on, they continue to work on the first 100 years. There's going to be a book. We're in the third draft of the book. There's also going to be a movie kind of thing. And Lisa Ventress from South Burlington will be narrating it. They have gotten the hotel permit from the city of South Burlington. However, there are some issues with the developers, so that isn't going forward at this moment. So there's still some work. You still don't have a hole. No, they don't have a hole. A big hole for a jet. So I mean, that's kind of. Did they talk about the extra corridor they're building to shunt TSA people from one end to the other? Yes, they're working on it. And it should be ready. It's not done yet, I think, in about a month. OK, that's really important. Because I'll tell you that right-hand TSA just backs up like crazy. And you're in that corral for days. Well, the guy walks around with a dog repeating the same phrase over and over again. So they can take care of that. Well, they're going to hope to. And then they're working on a more permanent fix that's better. But that should help. On the sound mitigation program, this was a quote. The FAA gives dollars for, quote, what is not what might be. So the quote is that? Who quoted that? A G, Richards. So that's kind of how he believes they make decisions on whatever they're going to fund at the airport. What is or is what might be? Yes, so it has to be very concrete and something that's needed and not a visioning kind of thing. I guess that's how I think about it. Yeah, yeah. So that's it for right now. We continue to have a little disagreement, but we're working on trying to find some middle ground. Middle. Item 7, the consent agenda. We have three items. Consider and sign disbursements. Approve the governmental entity's certificate of resolution designating TD Bank as the city official bank. And the release of the irrevocable offer of dedication for the proposed road off of community drive and technology park, both of which we had information in the last meeting. And so these are now before us to approve. I'll make the motion to approve the consent agenda. Second. Kind of. And seconded. Is there any discussion? I just have two questions for Tom on items in the warrant, but I can wait until later. We're going to ask them now. I can look them up. I don't have it. And we'll do it later, sure. No, you can go. Why don't you ask so we know what to look up? The library rent and storage. What is that for? We still have a holding place for some of the resources from the library that they couldn't fit in the space there. So until during this period of transition, we've rented a storage area at the mall. At the mall. Or some of the things that we have. And so there's a separate fee for that, aside from the lease agreement. So is that the annual fee? It was like $3,800. Or was that the rent and that storage? That sounds like both together. Yeah, it says rent and storage. OK, that's how we read it. Rent and storage. OK. And the last thing is garnishment payment. I don't want to get in particular as if it's a confidential issue, but. Yeah, it is confidential. And it is what it is. Any employer can be told that, based on certain evidence that's presented, that a check would have to be garnished for a reason to make a payment elsewhere. And that's what that is. OK. Are you ready for the vote? All in favor, signified by saying aye. Aye. Thank you. City school collaboration. Do you have a couple more comments? As Helen noted earlier, we met with David and Bridget in our normal monthly meeting, which was a good meeting. And then on Monday of last week, city staff met with school staff and our consultant to talk about the program needs for both the school district and the city. The school district was represented by David Young and Patrick Burke and their athletic director, facilities manager, and yes, and Bridget was there for the school board. Tom and I were there. Holly was there. Alana and Justin were there. And so we had a really good conversation. A lot of it evolved around what the school's program needs were. And so we really got into some great detail on that and what our program needs are looking like they would be. And so it was a really good meeting. I think we got a long way toward answering the question as to whether or not the school district's planned wellness facility could also accommodate city needs. And my takeaway from the meeting was that it would be very challenging to do that. The school district has very significant programmatic needs for men and women, high school and middle school, varsity, junior varsity, and others, and other activities that are unrelated to the mainline sports, where they have a need for a facility. All that being said, we're still having this conversation with them. But they're anticipating an indoor track facility, which is in short supply in the state of Vermont and within that track some additional basketball size courts. And so the issue for us as a city is would that accommodate our needs, A, based upon access issues, size issues, and so on? And like I say, when I left the meeting, I felt that they could not because of their demand for program. And Tom, you can chime in here as well if you were. Yeah, I felt it was a great discussion. I thought Mike Jabour, who's the athletic director at the high school, did a good job in just identifying the current need that's not being met at the high school and middle school level, not just for varsity sports, but JV and freshman intramural club sports and then just opportunities for students in general. And I think you said there were 53 different clubs now? So a lot of different kinds of spaces that are needed that don't currently exist or are not appropriate in size or in terms of function. And when we started looking at the needs that we had as well, it was becoming obvious, I think, to all of us as a group that there were a lot of conflict in terms of they would need space when we needed space. And I think we even get down to one point that from 6 to 8.20 in the morning would be available. And then evenings after 6.30, if there wasn't a competition event with one of the high school teams between the boys and the girls, and occasionally on the weekend. So I mean, it really was, we got to that level of conversation, which I think was needed. And as Kevin talked about the track, the other point I would make is this is a competition track. It's a race track for indoor track competition. And those meets are held typically on a Saturday. And I mean, they would take over the entire complex to run the meet. These facilities are great. And typically, they're provided by local colleges. And it sounds like the UVM space may be going away. I think it's questionable for next year. I think it's OK for this year. Questionable for next year. And then they may not be replacing it as part of their renovations at the university. Maybe you know more, I don't know. So if it goes away, the only other track available, I think, in Vermont is at Middlebury and Norwich. And right now, they're not making facilities available to the public. So the question becomes, there wouldn't be a place to host the indoor competitive track meets. In Vermont. I guess they were talking about going to New Hampshire, which is where they do the swimming. At Dartmouth. There's no pool. So it'd be very different from the track that we're envisioning, where it's more of a walking, jogging, even have strollers type of thing on the track, separate from activity things going on within the same space. But it's one of the conversations that we were looking forward to having with them. And I think we all left with good information. But I think also pretty solid information that there were great needs on both sides. And to put them together created a lot of conflict with the same times of day that we would need facility spaces. So we did not get into security related issues for the school district or how you would create separation. That might be at a future meeting. But there were some other issues that we didn't get into because we spent a lot of time on the program needs. Anyway. I think at the school board meeting that I went to, Pat Burke said that the way they are envisioning designing it, that it was kind of separate. So that if they were to allow the public in to use it, they could close off access to the two schools. So you actually could just have the wellness center available to the public. So they have thought about that. And he mentioned that at that meeting. I also mentioned at our meeting with leadership that I thought it would be really helpful for the public to better understand exactly what programming and space was being envisioned for both the wellness center as well as the other parts of the building. So I mean, right now, when they presented it, in my opinion, it was, well, here's the high school. And there's all the stuff you need in high school. And then the middle school and then the wellness center. And all I got was, well, there's going to be this big track. And then there's some buildings or classrooms. And then there's some stuff in the middle. And it seemed to me that what we need, so we're not second guessing, is what is inside the buildings in terms of improved educational, academic, extramural kinds of activities. So you have a better handle. It's kind of like going through housing development, and say, well, I like the outside of that one and never get to go inside and find out what you're buying. How many bedrooms or how many bathrooms or is it wood on the floor or whatever. So I thought that would be really helpful to have a lot more of those kinds of particulars for the public to chew on and think about and quantify whether the dollar figure made sense. And Bridget agreed. I don't know when that will be forthcoming, but they recognized that that would be helpful in the conversation. So we had what I would consider to be an excellent meeting. And we'll have had our next change back with David. And we'll probably get together again shortly. OK, number nine, update on council plans to host two forums on domestic violence in October, Domestic Violence Awareness Month. So that's Megan and me. I didn't go to the last meeting, so if you want to update the council on what we've been talking about, they've been great meetings. Yeah, yeah. Well, we did get confirmation that the reason behind this two-monthly series of educational forums that the people have agreed to have their name attached to it. So I guess I feel free just to state that Annette Lumumba's death in May of 2018 in a domestic violence dispute was very troubling to this community and, of course, to her family. And they are still members of this community. She has children who are still in the schools. And because of that tragedy, there were members of the community that stepped forward, spoke both to Tom and to me. And we decided, and it took some time until it felt like the timing was right, that we would go ahead and take up the communities will to do something about this. And to let members of the community be educated and aware about what occurs in our state, what resources are out there, also what the actual experience is for people who are victims and who have to go through the various legal processes in order to arrive at some level of security and personal safety, to perhaps come together and advocate for legislative change. And the big thing that came through is, I think, to establish a fund that we would start here, the seed money would come from South Burlington. It could definitely come from elsewhere. But it was inspired by the Caroline Fund, which was started in Burlington after a young woman was killed in a similar situation. And so the Annette Fund is something that would be started here in the family, has enthusiastically embraced that idea. This is being done in conjunction with our police and our police chief, specifically, has been very actively engaged in all of these preparations, at least in beddinger with restorative justice, the schools. We also have steps to end domestic violence on board, as well as HopeWorks. And we are going to be coming forward, I believe, at our next meeting. Or is it the first meeting in October? We can talk about that in October with a resolution for the council to kind of mark this series of talks and educational forums with kind of a formal acknowledgment that our community does not wish to turn a blind eye to these very private dramas that occur amongst us and that we wish to step up and to create a network for people to feel that they can rely on, but also for us to, just like I said, organize for legislative action, fundraising for a fund to help people who are in trouble, who need some cash quickly to get out of a dangerous situation, that kind of thing. So we start off in October, which is domestic violence month. We're going to have two evening meetings. And Kevin, if I could ask you to contact Common Roots, you had raised the idea of having those be catered for the public to come and have a meal together. We're going to be discussing serious issues. So it's also going to be issues that we hope that we can really tackle together as a group. So that's the reason why the breaking of bread would happen together. You said two nights. Do you have the date set? You know, I might. Yes. This is still TBD, right? But I'm happy to say what the TBD dates are. Let me find that. Hold on. How did I jump down there? You can email out later too. I just wondered what you would have done here. Well, I know that we were looking at Monday, October 28th to go to the high school. That's the third event in October, because I had that. All right, I have them here. So I believe Tuesday, October 22nd is the one date. And then Thursday, October 10th. So the 10th, the 22nd, and the 28th. The 10th and the 22nd would be evening meetings. The 28th would, again, to be determined, would be in access with high schoolers. So the third meeting, which would ideally be with high schoolers, which is our audience, because we see this as an age when young people are developing patterns of behavior in their social relationships and their amorous relationships. And we want to first let them know that this community takes very seriously what occurs here, and that we cherish the people who live here. And invite the people who attend either of those evening meetings to attend that daytime meeting in order to let our adolescents know that there are people who care very deeply. It would also be educational to teach the high schoolers about warning signs, to give them a video so they can see enacted behaviors that should set off some alarms. And to, of course, provide resources. So those are still to be really put into concrete plans for October. So this month promises to be a busy month. And then in April, when it's Sexual Violence Awareness Month, we're going to be following up with another set of forums around sexual violence. You should have something of the second anniversary of the murder that happened in our city in May. Yes. Well, that might be a good time to start the Annette Fund or something. Yeah, we have lots of ideas. We just, we've focused on October because that's here. And we'll work on. And it's domestic violence. Right. And Awareness Month in April will focus on sexual violence. So good summary. In the meeting that we had with David Young, or he spoke about his, he's cooperating and the school board, his district is cooperating in this whole process to bring this education to the students as well. No, no, no, no. This is seen as a city endeavor. City endeavor. That's correct. They're just providing the facilities. That's still to be determined as we heard their facilities are very, very scheduled. I was wondering if you heard what was said before. It was still in play that the district wasn't going to really get involved. Right. That this is really a city endeavor, but that our audience is our young people, who are in schools. So they have their own curriculum, I guess. So we didn't want to impinge on that. Great work. I'm really glad this is happening. I'm looking forward to the sessions. Yeah, no, I think they really will be quite impactful. Really a number of wonderful people who will be presenting. You're working with Steps? Yes. Yes, and HopeWorks. Yeah, and the new director is Steps? Steps and Domestic Violence. Marla is her first name, and I can't remember her last name off the top of my head. Yes, but she's got a lot of energy. She did say the public is will be invited. Yes, yes. This is really aimed at the public. We have identified groups to reach out to, so that the outreach can really be that web. So it won't only be through the other paper. We're really counting on that word of mouth and going through organizations that. It really, really truly sounds like something worth doing in my year on doing it. And I think the school will help get the word out as well. I think they have some other ways, different lists, and ways to promote this with parents that we don't have access to other than really generally. Thanks, Megan. Number 10, update on public input component of indoor rec center proposal, Holly. And again, officially thank you for wonderful Soho nights. They were terrific. Some people don't like Soho. Well, that's OK. It is OK. You know what it's all about. So is this on? Yes? I'm sorry. Yes. OK. So yes. Are you taking applications for next year for Soho? Not quite yet. We've got to close out the season first. I think the aim is probably January 1, but might be sooner than that. And they'll be posted on our website. Barbecue place in Essex Junction that I told about. They were like, oh, everybody goes Thursday nights, but we didn't know about that one. So I would tell them. Great. Thank you. So Holly Reese, director of recreation and parks. Just here to give you a brief update, I know most of you were at the public forum a week ago last night. But we had Joel Bergman from BH plus A consulting. And he was here for a full day, more than a 12-hour day, meeting individually with identified stakeholder groups. As Kevin mentioned, we had a really great meeting with the school district, but also had an opportunity to meet with private business folks that are in the fitness business world. Also, user groups that ranged from senior citizen exercise group to some homeschoolers to folks that are doing open gyms with us and programs and everything in between. So it definitely was a full day. Joel got a lot of great information. I think he had about 15 pages of notes. And that was before the public forum. We had about 50 folks here, I would say, for the public forum and some lively conversation. We look forward to more of that. I've also had pretty much daily emails and inquiries. So we're cataloging all of that as well. And then the survey launched, as Kevin had mentioned, I want to say it was August 27th or 28th. And when I checked today, we had 622 responses. So we'll send that out again and make sure that people know it will be open through September 9th. And then all of that information will be consolidated and shared kind of in a final report with BH plus A. And then they will be back September 17th for that next phase of public forum. And at that point, the hope is that they'll kind of have three different schematic designs for us to look at and talk about as a community and discuss pros and cons to kind of narrow the concept down. So that's just a snapshot. It was a year ago that I sat in front of you actually with Jennifer. And the Recreation and Parks Committee passed the resolution to really go for an indoor rec center and keep that as a forefront. So now we're kind of a year into that work and getting down to the nitty gritty. So we'll just wait to see what comes from the public and really encouraging everybody to be engaged in the process as much as possible and share their input and share the desires and their questions. And we're trying to be as responsive as we can to those and keep people engaged in the process. Are you adding new questions to the survey? So currently the survey is where it is. And I think based on those results, when it closes on the 9th, then we'll kind of reconvene as a team and see are there then isolating questions that we need to do from there to kind of narrow things down a little bit more. But we'll see that after it closes on the 9th. So if you haven't done your survey yet, make sure you do do it. I think I was probably the first one that actually completed it. And I did check to see if you could do it more than once and you can't. So it only lets you do it once. And so I think that's fit only because we had a conversation about it. Not that you were trying to find a loophole. Just uncovered the loophole. Exactly. So it's been great to know that there are 620-something people interested in taking the survey and I hope that we can at least double that. So we're almost a week into it now and we've got another week to go. So looking to get the word out that's still open and active and encouraging people to reach out to me with any comments and questions. We do have now the PDF. So we have some hard copies at City Hall if folks are not available electronically. And then next week Coralie and I will be visiting some senior housing facilities, some congregate living facilities. So we'll bring the hard copies with us for those as well. And I assume that you're monitoring, or someone is, the different social media things that where this is discussed and people have additional questions that aren't on the survey. I was just reading and I can't remember whether it was on Facebook or it was on the front porch forum rather or the self-rolling neighborhood watch. But there were additional questions people had that, to me, sounded like they might be good in the next survey or to sort of drill down a little deeper. So I would say that we definitely have an understanding and a pulse of where the questions are. And so we will address those as a team in a methodical way. Good. Yeah, no, you need to. I just thought some of them were helpful and it's good to know what the questions are. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, no survey asks everything, so. Right. Do you have something to add, Jennifer? Yeah, in answer to your comment, when I was chair, I monitored the community watch and Facebook and so on. And people would email me with their questions and their comments. And so we've got a transition kind of going on. And some of those people are still emailing me and I refer them to our current leadership and to Holly. And if I can answer a question on community watch, what I'd like to do is give factual information. And just to give whatever factual information I have, check back with Holly, refer people to Holly also. But I think that's really helpful because there are people out there who really want to get engaged in support and advocacy. And that is something that our committee needs to take on. We are in a more structured way than just means answering emails. Great. We also have our next recreation and parks committee meeting will be Monday. And so Kevin will be there. And we can kind of talk about that and figuring out the best way to answer those collective questions. Are there any questions by the council first? No, I just started following you on Twitter. Thank you. Thank you. Sandy? I was just wondering if there's assurance that the respondents are South Burlington residents, is there any way of knowing that? I don't have the answer to that. I think Coralie would know. I know she and Joel set up the survey monkey together. So I don't have an answer for that. I can get back to you. OK, thank you. Yes. Well, great. Thank you very much. OK, thank you. OK, item 10. No, I'm sorry. That was item 10. Item 11. We are almost done. Whoa. Council consideration and possible improvement of resolution related to the public telecom infrastructure. So you've Justin Rabadou and Rabadou. Is that right? Rabadou? Rabadou. Yeah, I'll get his name. Yeah. All right. I would say his name wrong. Pardon? I will say Andrew's name wrong. They're both French. Yeah, we're both. It's spoken in French. Nothing's spoken in French. Rabadou and Balduk? Yeah. Two for two. The French would say Duke. Yeah, Balduk. Yeah. It's Balduk. I would say Balduk. Yeah, a bowl and a duck. Yeah. Andrew Bollack, city attorney. I'm glad you pronounced it correctly. Yes, thank you. Justin Rabadou, director of Public Works. Thank you. A follow-up to our discussion at the last meeting about council authorization for the city to enter into agreements with telecommunications companies for use of city infrastructure in Market Street. This is the first time the city sort of owned its own vaults and is renting out this space and the city is acting in its proprietary interests. So looking to set up sort of a city policy that both gives this authorization for us to go out and individually contract and set some general guidelines as to what will the key terms of those will be. Alana provided a background memo and revised the draft policy a little bit. It will allow for individual service providers to negotiate in-kind services in lieu of or for partial payment for fees. That means meet the goal of the city, allows the director of Public Works and city attorney to add any fees and any other items as deemed appropriate within a contractual agreement. And also there's sort of a placeholder as far as fee structure. We're able to track down public utility commissions, kind of what they use for pole attachments, which we used as analogous to a vault here. It's based on the total amount of space being used and what the capital infrastructure costs were. So with that basis, they also informed us that they don't have jurisdiction over what we charge as far as those fees, which was comforting to also hear. So we went through using that background. And I don't know, Justin, if you wanna talk a little bit more about that. Yeah, sure. This is very similar to the rate structure that governs 80% of our streetlights. 80% of our streetlights roughly are leased by Green Mountain Power. Green Mountain Power sets those tariff rates with Public Utility Commission previously the Public Service Board's annual approval. So using that as a starting point, as Andrew mentioned, we use the formula that exists within the public utilities regulations. And it's essentially you're amortizing, and you're amortizing your asset and depreciating it, including upfront capital annual maintenance over the life of the conch, over the life of over its expected life and coming up with a yearly cost. Basically, so at the end of this, if you were to rent out all of the infrastructure, you would be theoretically made a hole for your upfront and your ongoing investments. There's a few assumptions that go into this. We can share the formula or send it around later, probably not worth getting into the math at this point. But essentially what we came up with, and it's very similar to some other numbers we've seen nationally and just kind of researching this, was the total investment was roughly half a million dollars for this infrastructure. It has a 50 year life cycle. There are roughly 12 ducks within this 3,000 foot linear system under Market Street. The reason I say roughly is for two thirds of the job, there are 14 ducks, and for the other third, there's seven. So if a weighted average is 11.7. And we know what the annual, basically the annual expense for maintenance of the system is roughly zero. So you kind of throw that into their formula and you back it up into an annual rental charge per foot per duck bank. Because again, these systems either have 12 or seven conduits that are concrete in case running underneath the road. And it comes out to about 33 cents a linear foot, which on a 3,000 foot owned infrastructure is about $1,000 a year per duck bank. So it's about $12,000 a year of revenue. Over the 60 year life cycle, and that's about $600,000. None of these take into account future value interests which is straight line math. So essentially we would be asking the utility companies to lease on an annual basis for us for roughly the cost of $1,000. The right to be within our infrastructure. I think it's important for them. It gives them cost certainty. It also gives them access. It's particularly on the, and these are just the last three names, Verizon, Fairport, Fairpoint and Consolidated. Those are just in the last five years. That's been the name of what is now Consolidated Communications. Every time they have turnover, they're always looking for new infrastructure. This gives them, at least on Market Street and perhaps elsewhere in the city, if we endeavor elsewhere, this gives them guaranteed access at a very reasonable cost. It cuts down on their frontline expenses. But I think even more importantly for us, it ensures that they don't have to come to us after the fact and say, oh, by the way, I need to dig up such and such a street. The number one most detrimental thing that can happen to a road is a utility patch. Actually, the national landmark legislation or court case on this from 1981 was City of Burlington versus Vermont Gas. City of Burlington was represented by Joe McNeil and John Franco. Vermont Gas at that time was switching from medium to high pressure. So they basically had to access their lines all over the city. Burlington said, wait a minute, this isn't so they hired a national pavement expert and this went to court and it set nationwide the legal basis for right-of-way impact fees. So when someone cuts our road open till they pay us a fee, this all was born in that 1981 Burlington, Vermont Gas case. So a little bit of local history and how it's pertinent to what we're trying to do here because we don't want people coming after the fact and it's not willy-nilly, but they have needs, we don't want them coming up market street. Instead, we have a very healthy, robust system with plenty of conduit, both for them but also frankly, as we expand both geographically our presence in the city as well as we're gonna have growing fiber needs whether it's to connect traffic signals or any other reason, it's very expensive to run this so if we can get it in place today, we will bear no additional costs other than the cost of running the cable through the wires. So it's a sound investment. We think that the number of 33 cents a foot is really in line with the Vermont's regulatory framework based on the market street project. And the type of vault, it's PVC pipe. It's conga. There are three by four layer, three layers of four conduits, PVC pipe, and then you basically pour a bunch of concrete over it to further protect it from any roadway and stability or any impacts from frost heaves or traffic on top of it. So what would be the reasons anyone would be able to cut into market street? Well, now that we have water and gas, outside of us doing it, it would just be Vermont gas. So they have a separate line, but that's not under the road, right? Isn't that? Yeah, so it's off under the sidewalk. So in the future, only if we frankly have some sort of utility issue like a frozen water line or it almost never happens with sewer lines would market street need to be excavated. We would not allow Comcast to show up after presuming this is in place in the future. We would not allow them and we would have the legal right to not allow them to dig because they would be digging for something that we can just point them to and give them access that way. Helen, I also wanted to follow up on the question you asked about kind of the shifting FCC framework. And as I understand it, the Public Utility Commission, when they issue a certificate of public good, they'll require a 5% franchise fee, which collects about $8 million annually that goes to public television providers, including channel 17. That with some of the shifts in FCC regulation is currently under some scrutiny and there are current pending court cases. That is, it's one of those situations where I think the city's authorization of a fee to recoup its capital costs is something well within its authority. The franchise fee as well within the Public Utility Commission's authority. We'll see what happens in the future. Is there any escalating fee at all? I mean, in 50 years, it might cost more than, I mean, you're gonna collect $600,000? So that's a 20% increase, I guess that's... The city of Burlington's excavation fee is tied to the Northeast consumer, or CPI. So, and that's all reinforced by locally approved ordinance. If there was a desire, we could write some sort of a universally accepted escalation factor into this as well. I think that might be prudent over 50 years. I mean, things don't never seem to go down. If we approve 33 cents, we're not locked into it for 50 years, are we? We can add that later, too. Yeah, this is a resolution that could certainly just be updated. Exchange that with a future resolution. But this will allow us to at least enter into the initial contracts, which... Well, I think an escalation fee in the future makes sense to me. Tim, did you have a question? Yeah, the other scenario is that everybody goes wireless, and they strand their wires and stop paying you because they say they don't want to use the wires anymore that they ran in the conduits, and then uses their provision to make them pull them out, or could they just strand them and leave them? Have we thought about that? We can probably write some sort of an abandonment clause into it that would require them to vacate the premises, including any infrastructure they have within the pipes. They have to go through our roads to do that? So the conduits in the ground, they would just, in the tomorrow, they would just be feeding wire. They'd be accessing it through a utility vault. They would just be forcing wire the same way kind of the plumber does with a snake. And so we could require them if they chose for whether it's wireless, or they just choose for some other business reason not to be on their market street. We can write something to force them to vacate so that leaves room for someone else. And I think there is a provision in the resolution that kind of talks about optimization of future use. Is it one customer per conduit, or could it be multiple? Generally, they like to have their own space. However, it's often interesting when their backs are up against the wall, the accommodations they're willing to make. Generally, each utility would be in its own conduit, perhaps more than one, depending upon their needs. And certainly we think a system that has 12 conduits from Hindsville Road to Marcot, and then seven from Marcot to Dorset is robust enough for today and tomorrow's needs. Is Verizon talking about perhaps using Fios in there? They have not discussed with us, at least, if they want to bring the Fios technology to Vermont. But Consolidated has been working with us throughout this process to they've been making other improvements within the market street area. So when this is approved, they're gonna run lines right away. Do you have Consolidated, Comcast, and possibly Verizon? Consolidated is Verizon. Verizon became Fairpoint. Fairpoint became Consolidated. No, Fairpoint became Consolidated. That's just telephone. Verizon is a totally separate entity. Comcast is Xfinity. So it has Verizon expressed a separate interest in you? You've been approached so far by Consolidated and Comcast. Oh, Comcast, okay, but not... And Burlington Telecom on the periphery. So that's a really cool concept there. That would be great if they... That would be wonderful advertising and publicity for both the city and the telecom if they could bring something to city center, wow. Because right now, I think in Burlington, the base package is like $55. You get a landline, five megabits per second and some television channels, which is, so that's a really, that's a fair, it's a pretty good deal, I think, you know. But they have their own challenges, right? Okay. Are there other questions or comments? Well, you explained that really well. Yeah. We need a move. Not entirely related, but the church street marketplace has free Wi-Fi, is a designated part of Market Street gonna have free Wi-Fi. It is outside. That exists through Burlington Telecom and they're quasi or formerly locally owned, so that's what was set up. I'm sure the city could engage telecom providers to see what it would take to allow for that. And the flexibility in that resolution is exactly one of the things in situation. Good. Yes, right. I'm gonna spend a number of summers in Alaska and every rural and city library went into it. Three, four, five, six, maybe 10 computers free. Right, and we have that and we'll have probably more at the new library. Yeah, the new library has computers for rent, but it also has a computer room and Wi-Fi throughout. And we're doing, Justin, do you need to go back and make any changes here? Or do you believe that the resolution has read and accommodates the comments you've heard from the council tonight? The resolution has read and I have an updated copy with the figure plugged in for our fee. All right. You need a motion to approve that, right? Yep, we can have further questions. We have a motion to approve. A second. A second, further discussion. Do you have another question? A discussion after the vote. I have a separate question related to this. Oh, okay. The wild power. Oh, okay, so don't move. So are we ready for the vote? Okay, all in favor? Do you need the 33 cents in the vote or are you comfortable with just as presented? It's not in our packet, the 33 cents. Oh, sure, yeah, maybe a motion that includes it as amended. Okay, so the motion is amended to include the 33 cents per linear foot or whatever it is. Okay, ready? All in favor? Signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right. Thank you. Nice work. One more question for whom? Good question. For both? What's the status of the Dorset Street traffic control signal changes? We are with the RPC's assistance who's our funding partner, if you will. We're evaluating proposals from qualified consultants. So you have the money. We spent basically July signing cooperative agreements and providing certificates of insurance and all that other bureaucratic stuff. Now we're on to the process of selecting. And Market Street looks great. It does. I walked through. There was a lady who drove through yesterday. Yeah, no, it looks great. Very impressive. Thank you. The water layer is beautiful. It gets a lot of foot traffic. The Allen Square folks love walking down there. And the geese are on site now. Thank you. All right, thank you. I always say, it's like bulldoke, bulldoke, bulldoke, duck, geese. I don't know what they're, it's geese. Geese. I know they're there. I just thought it was balduke, balduke. It's bullduke. It's the same one phrase in my whole life. Okay. Item 12, consider convening as the South Carolina Liquor Control Commission. So I move that we enter the Liquor Control Commission. Second. All in favor? Aye. Convening as the Liquor Control, and we have one item before us, Memos Pizzeria and Restaurant. Class three, what is that now? Third class? So you, this is the first time you've seen this. So it's the second, well, for third class? Third class. Yeah. The state is now requiring local liquor control commissions to approve third class licenses which are liquor. And so Memos was here last time for. For second class. For second class. Now, and this change has happened fairly recently. Now they're back for the third class and now you'll start seeing these on a regular basis. So everyone has to do it twice? They can't do it at the same time? Next time, now we know. So Memos went to the state for the third class and they say, no, you gotta go back to the local. We were unaware of that. They didn't tell him. Until I first. And so now you'll start seeing more of it. Okay. Anyway, it wasn't anything that Memos did wrong. Okay, any questions or concerns? Okay, all in favor? Oh, no, I'm sorry. We have a motion. Is there a motion? No. So I move we approve this liquor license application for third class for Memos. Second. Okay. Further discussion? No, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Motion to come out? So moved. Second. All in favor? Aye. Any other business? I just, the 50% afterburner. The what? 50% afterburner. Do you know what that means for South Burlington? I mean, the Wynuszki? Yes. Wynuszki. And, you know, we hear this all makes sense that we tax people for use of our infrastructure. Well, isn't our, they're using a lot of infrastructure to have these very noisy planes here. I mean, and they're asking us to use our fuel. I mean, we should tax them based on how many homes that they deem to be unsuitable for residential that we should have a tax for home that then can go into that noise insulation. I'd certainly welcome inviting the Vermont International Guard in for another presentation and update as to their operations. I think they're a member of our community to have them come in and talk about this and answer these questions. They're going to deny it, Tom. And they didn't let us know when the two, when the F-16s upgraded to the Block 35 that made the envelope expand exponentially either. I asked them two years ago when we were at the airport upstairs in the mezzanine. We were submitting the handwritten questions. That was one of my questions. How often will the aftermars be used? They never answered me. I've asked them questions since really haven't got answers. Well, if you're interested, we certainly can invite them again. I think there's, you know, some new information. I don't know if they'll answer it any differently than they have in the past. In the press, they said no, there's no update. That was the press report. Is there a tax? Can we tax them for a house that they make unsuitable for what to do with them? Not without a charter change. No, actually, it's true. Not without a charter change. Well, then. Charter change. Well, we could certainly ask the charter committee to contemplate that and come, you know, do some research and come back with a plan. I bet Winooski might be interested, too. Because the way Burlington plays ball, where they never share it, they keep it for themselves, we're going to have to push. I'm sorry, but I don't know that these nice little discussions with Moreau are getting us anywhere to protect our people here. We certainly will not have enough with the fuel taxes. No, and it wasn't an ambition to be enough. I think the larger question for me is whatever the noise mitigation plan is and the cost, is this community willing to participate and make a contribution of any percentage? I mean, that's an issue that we would have to decide. And we need to contact them. And if the question, I mean, if the answer is no, we're not going to pay anything. It's 100% from the federal government, or we're not part of the noise mitigation plan, then that's one decision. And the state chipped in for purchasing all of these nice single-family homes, too. So it's a conversation to have with the governor. Well, we talked about that. And that certainly is a conversation we need to have with the governor and the legislature about the jet fuel tax. We only get a very small piece of that. There's far more. There is also a federal pass-through for airport upgrades or maintenance. I can't remember how many million dollars it is, but it's significant. And Burlington used to get a lot more. So I think that may be in part where some of the match came. And then that was reduced. So that's another avenue to find money. But I think the point is you can't ask for money until you know how much it is. And my understanding for the NCP is we need to figure out what parts of the plan we like and will agree to, which parts of the program. Then they have to go to every single house and do an assessment and determine what each house is able to receive. And then get those dollars and add them all up. And then that's the figure that you apply for the funding. And then that would be, if there's a match, that would be the match dollar. I don't know what that is. So I don't think we can go to the legislature and say, we want that money. Well, it's just new windows and HVAC. That will be about $30,000 per house. So 10% is $3,000. So there's a beginning figure. It's a beginning figure, but the legislature, having been there, is not going to say, oh, yeah, we'll promise you $60 million on this kind of formula that isn't real. I understand that. But in terms of us preparing a tax for them to fly with afterburners, that's perhaps, I don't know. I mean, how they come up with $0.33 per linear foot, I assume that there is some kind of standard, right? They said there was a standard for them. Yeah, I don't know if there's a tax anywhere nationally on the impactive points. I'd just like to say two things, one, very important topic. I just encourage us to warn a full discussion on this. But one comment I would say on the topic of whether or not communities like South Burlington or Winooski would start to contribute towards the $6.5 million or the match, the local match, I wouldn't be supportive of spending any of South Burlington's money towards an entity that is part of the municipality of Burlington. They hold all the keys. They're the decision makers. That financial burden is on them. If we tied that local match to a structuring of the governance of that airport as a regional entity that is truly owned by all of the community members that actually own the airspace above it, then I'd be open to exploring that $6.5 million coming from the coffers of South Burlington. But while it's a Burlington asset, it's a Burlington financial burden. That's where I would be on that topic. If it becomes a regional entity, though, I guess all of the communities in the region would need to come up with a match, help come up with a match, I suppose. They all benefit from the airport, and it's all airspace. So far, that seems to have been a challenging objective. Anything worth talking about is worth talking about. Just takes time. Well, 34 years, 35 years so far. We'll get there. Yeah. OK, well, I mean, I think it's about maybe when you come forward with the MOU, we could have that discussion. Yeah. So maybe on the next, well, the 16th is pretty chock-a-block full, isn't it? The 16th is pretty full. I'm very appreciative that this wasn't. Yeah, so maybe the first meeting in October, we could have both the MOU resolution. If there's some other final language, we could have the guard come in and answer some questions if you want. And we can have the discussion on the 10% and where we are as a council on using our resources to support. A Burlington asset. Right. Well, that's right. Yeah, and a state. I mean, a state, too. It's a state asset as well, I mean. And it should be governed as such. That's correct. Do you have a date for Moran again? I think it's put off till October. I don't think it will be mid-September. But I don't know. I think it is delayed a little bit. Now there's a new lawsuit. That's true. Yes, because of the afterburner increase, demanding a new EIS. So we'll see. Stay tuned. This is what happened when you pay no attention to local people. OK, motion to adjourn. So moved. Yep. Second. Are you sure you're ready for the vote? All in favor? Aye. Aye. OK. State. I'll vote. A-10, this is a record. This is a nice record after a long date.