 Hi Bo Peep. World is happening right now and what have I stepped into? Maybe you're a first time guest with us. We wanna say welcome and you have shown up for a very special weekend here at Saddleback Church. We are in the middle of a series this summer, a four part series called At the Movies. And this weekend we're gonna be looking a little bit deeper at the story of Toy Story. Deliverance Angels just came in here. Angels are prosperity. I'm talking about the full measure of who. When I see angels striking the pool and they say strike. But I wasn't prepared to see people in costumes. Well, I'm pretty sure people in that church weren't either. You don't go to church expecting to see people in costumes, especially the pastor and the co-pastor. And we're talking about co-pastors. That is a phenomenon that is new. It's not a very old phenomenon. It's not something that's been happening. You know, if we go back 120 years ago, we just didn't see that. We didn't see that, but we see it now. Why is that? Why do you think that? As a matter of fact, before we do that though, can you all just name, just put in the chats some well-known churches that have either co-pastors, the wife is a co-pastor, or she may not officially be the co-pastor, but she's functioning as a co-pastor. Does anyone, I can think of some. Ivy and Bridget Hillier down in the Houston area. Steven and Holly Ferdick. Joel and Victoria Osteen, let's see who else. Crefwillow and Tammy, no, not Tammy, Taffy Dollar. Yeah, Lakewood. What else? And there are some places where the wife is not known as the co-pastor, but she functions that way. Yeah, John Gray, is John Gray still a pastor? Yeah, John Gray's church, him and his wife. I'm trying to think of some other ones, but it's a trend that's going more and more and more. How about we saw the great apostle Jonathan Ferguson and his wife, okay, greater states, St. Stephen's Fool, Gospel Baptist Church, first of all, that's a long name for a church. And I'm pretty sure it's a black church. You know why I know that? Because black churches, we tend to have long names as though the name is gonna bring people in. Greater New Birth, Fallen out of Heaven, New Jerusalem Missionary Baptist Church of God in Christ of the Redeemed, Holy Ghost Annoying it. Not a nominational church, it's just like. Anyway, it's Heedie Jakes, his wife is not, but what he's doing is, he's using his, and I don't know what's gonna happen with his daughter, because Ture Roberts and his wife are supposed to be the co-pastors at his particular church. Yeah, I think his wife does function in that role, I don't know if she's necessarily called that, but she certainly is that. Who else? Yeah, Michael and Dee Dee Freeman, I just discovered this guy the other day, but apparently his wife is also functioning in that role. Dee Dee Snakes. So, I don't know what I do, I have an idea as to why that is. I have an idea as to why that's happening. Because these seem to fit in certain types of churches. One, you obviously have to have, you've got to have some bad doctrine. Now, when I say bad doctrine, let's also be clear, there are passages where people go to lean on this. You said Travis Greene and his wife. Why is that people who are, I don't know what it is about people who sing, especially gospel music, they feel like they need to be pastors. Isn't, what's the guy's name? The one whose wife was twerking on them in public. Oh, what's his name? Matter of fact, he sent me a response, but he, I can't think of that. Dietrich Haddon. Why is that the pastors, the people that were former gospel singers, they want to be pastors and then they bring their wives in? So, yeah, I don't, bad doctrine obviously is at the epicenter. Bad doctrine is the reason why we see this. I'm just sitting there looking at some of these, some of these chats to see if you all put another name. Cause I can't think of a lot of them off top of my head, although I see them and we see them, we just keep on going, such as Saddleback Church. Now, what's interesting is that the former pastor of Saddleback Church, he didn't have his wife as a co-pastor, but now the new pastors installed in, they have the co-pastor. I don't understand this for now. I understand the phenomenon. Center of Hope, Church of Oakland. Okay, they have their pastor and co-pastor. Okay. Is it biblical? Erica Campbell and her husband, they have a church. I didn't know that. I did not know that. Well, is it biblical? Well, obviously it's not biblical, but are there passages that they lean on to state that we can have this co-pastor, even if she is functioning under he's the head and she's functioning underneath? Are there any biblical pastors that they tend to cite? Well, Derek says, is co-pastor and associate pastor the same thing? No. Now, truth be told, the Bible does not set up all the parameters that we have in place for pastor. For example, senior pastor, teaching pastor, lead pastor, youth pastor, worship pastor, the Bible doesn't have it set up that way. The Bible doesn't tell us have this pastor, that pastor. However, I will say this though, is it possible where you can have two men as co-pastors? Think about that for a second, guys. What do you all think? What say you, is it possible that you can have two men or multiple men serving as co-pastors? Interesting to think about, because when we think about co-pastors, what do we think about? We think about a man and a woman. I don't think I've ever seen a man and a woman team where they're not married, but stick around a little longer. I'm pretty sure we are due to see a man and a woman serving as co-pastors and neither of them married, if it hadn't happened yet. If it hadn't happened yet. But in the Bible, it is actually okay for two men or three or what have you to serve as pastors, serve as shepherd. That can happen. That absolutely can't happen. There's nothing against that. And by the way, it doesn't violate any passages. Matter of fact, we will see that. As a matter of fact, think about this. The first church that we had, the very first church that we had, we had multiple shepherds, didn't we? And we had a conglomerate of elders. Now, as Saul or Paul began to attack the church, then you see this scattering, then you see them going off to different places and then they began planting churches. And Paul only had this one thing. He said, commit these to faithful men. As a matter of fact, do I have that passage up? I should have that passage up and I don't. Dog on it, I don't. I believe it is, no, it's not. Wait a second. Yeah, here it is. I'm sorry, second Timothy two, two. I know I did. Second Timothy two, the things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. Separate hardship with me as a good soldier of Christ. So now he's just saying, commit to faithful men. Now the interesting thing about this passage, the interesting thing about this passage is that the word man is not here. The word amphipoise is used. The plural of amphipoise. So does that include women? Well, it would include women if that were the only verse, if there were no other verses. So yeah, the term man is can be used generically to include male and female, but can also be used to include or to speak of just simply males because the understanding is that you already know what the qualifications are. And so let's just do it again to make sure that we understand the qualifications. Where is it? I thought I had, I didn't have the qualifications up. I don't have the qualifications up. You know why? Because we go over it so often. But let me just go ahead and go through it anyway. Let's go ahead and put them up just so that somebody might walk in and we should not take for granted that everyone has heard this. So it'd be only right, only proper. So it is a trustworthy saying. It is a trustworthy saying if a man aspires to the office of overseer. Of course, this word man here in your English is not man or male in the English. I mean, in the Greek, which is fine, which is fine. Then have to, this is the Greek word for tease, which is if a certain person or anyone, if a certain one wants to aspire for the office. It is a fine work he desires to do. An overseer then must be above reproach. And here it is, the Andra, the male of one Ganaikas, one woman. So he must be a male. Are you with me? It cannot be, there's no way around it. It's the same thing for deacons as well. As a matter of fact, as a matter of fact, when deacons, the very first time that deacons were selected in Acts chapter six, let's go there. Now, at this time, while the disciples were increasing in number, a complainer rose on part of the Hellenistic Jews against the native Hebrews. You know what, we're not getting the same thing that everyone else is getting. We don't like how we're being treated. We think that things are being done unfair and probably because of our race. So let's go and look what they did. So the 12 verse two, some of the congregation of the disciples and said, it is not desirable for us to neglect the word of God in order to serve tables. So they're gonna be helping out. Therefore, brethren, now the word brethren is not, it's a Delphoi. It can be used to be men, brothers like male brothers or brethren. In this case, it's brethren. It's kind of all inclusive. But look what he says, select from among you seven men and look at the word for men. Andres X, which is male seven. So seven males, males, people with the X, Y, Crohn's own makeup. So therefore, even in that, just even those that would help to serve, there are supposed to be males in that office. Someone asked a question about women being deacons. A deaconess, technically can a person be a deaconess? Yes, but not the office of a deaconess. Not that a woman cannot fulfill that office. A woman, just like a male, can be a servant. And that's how the word is used. Anybody can be a servant. As a matter of fact, every Christian should be a servant. If you are a Christian, male or female, and you're not a servant, well then you are not obeying the word of God. You're not loving like you should. But can anyone be in the office, the serving office? That's different. Serving versus the office, that's two totally different things. And so according to the scriptures, as a matter of fact, if we just jump down a little bit, a little bit further where we at. Ah, there it is. If we were to drop down a little bit further, it talks about a deacon. A deacon must likewise be men of integrity. Now, this word is in the masculine. And so this would have to mean necessarily, probably you would take this possibly as being a male. But someone can argue and say, which is not a problem. You don't have to win that argument to determine that the deacon has to be a male because if we drop down a little further, these men, also the term for these men, it's not fair, it's these. Hutuy, which is these, plural. So even in that passage, it's not still referring to men, but it will, must first be tested. Let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach. Women, now there's the comparison or contrast. Women, Ganaikas. So guess what they must be. They must be, if you're gonna say the women likewise, well then that means what you just talked about, we're not women. And if we go to, let's go to Titus. Let's go to Titus real quick because, Titus, the same qualifications for an elder. And let's drop down for, matter of fact, let's just read Titus also. For this reason I left you in Crete that you should set order what remains and point elders in every city as I directed you. Namely if any man sees a certain person above reproach, again, the husband, Anir, that word, same as Andras, Anir is a male of one woman. So the same thing is the same that we find in 1st Timothy. Let's see, is there anything that will also, by the way, it does go ahead and talk about the differences. So Titus does actually give a little bit of understanding as how they ought to operate, not just even the offices, but just how the body, the community is supposed to respond, supposed to behave, how males are supposed to behave, young males, older males, young females, older females. And so we have this instruction that has been left to us by Paul to either Timothy or to Titus. So now that being the case, why do you think this is happening? Why do you think this phenomenon is happening more and more and more? Well, I would submit to you that it has to do a lot with power. Now, granted, there's a lot of bad doctrine. We'll get to the bad doctrine in a second, but power because the man has some power or some notoriety, some prestige. And what ends up happening, because if you notice a lot of the faster growing churches, and think about this for a second, think about some of the faster growing churches in America that are more well-known. There's a woman there in many, not always, but in many cases, a woman there who is also leading. Because how often have you seen a well-known church, a well-known ministry? The pastor is well-known, but you don't hear from or hear about the wife or the children. There are some, don't get me wrong, there are a lot, but some of these, especially those that are more, kind of cost more charismatic in nature, where the woman is not actually hands-on in the ministry, where the children are not being propped up. You really, now it does happen, mustn't it happen, but it doesn't happen a lot. More and more we are seeing it becoming a family thing. It's becoming a family thing, and so you see men and women, men pushing their wives. You see fathers doing the same thing. I mentioned Ivy Hill, you're pushing not only his wife, but also his daughter. And then obviously there's one well-known case of a father pushing his daughter, but his daughter happens to also be married to a pastor. And so she also kind of functions as a co-pastor at our church. That being, Turei Roberts and his wife, Sarah Jakes Roberts. What does the Bible say about the woman, honey? In Genesis 3 and 15 after Eve has been eaten from. Now this is him, he's on this some interview and he's pushing his wife. What does the Bible say about the woman? What does the Bible say about the woman? Well, what the Bible says about the woman is not what she's getting ready to say. The Bible says about the woman. From the forbidden fruit. Yeah. The God tells the serpent that the seed of the woman is gonna crush his head, but he also says that the seed of the serpent is gonna bruise her heel. And so I have been really, really helping so many women understand that just because your heel has been bruised by a divorce, by a teen pregnancy, doesn't mean that you can't crush the serpent's head. Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about. It's not that women are gonna go with it, no. But that's what happens when you got bad doctrine and you put someone in the position who, one, is not physically qualified, but then also not mentally or emotionally qualified, clearly not spiritually qualified. And these are the kind of things you have happened. You see her antics and what she says, but then again you see what her father says. Then you listen to him, you hear the same thing. If no one is qualified, an unqualified person brings up another person, that person that they're gonna bring up is probably also going to be unqualified as well. And that's what we have with her. Because again, we wanna keep this in the family because even now Papa Jake's wants to bring her on and say that she's the future. I don't know how that's gonna work. I really don't know how that's gonna work. Who knows? They installed a few other people as well, but there are churches in LA and her going back and forth, I don't know. That just seems to be, that's gonna cause some problems in a relationship I would imagine. But then again, it's not my relationship, so I won't get into that. But I know the issue about the church. That is not biblical. It's not biblical at all. Now the question is, does any of this stuff have any grounding, any place from the scriptures? Are there any scriptures that lead people to think that? You know what? It's possible. I can see it. If you do this, then it can happen. It's possible. Well, let's go to a couple of passages that are brought up to talk about or that people might use to point out that that women can be, not necessarily, even pastors, but co-pastors. Because there are some people that say, well no, she can't be the pastor, but she can be a co-pastor. Why? Because she's under me. Well, a couple things. One, we look in 1 Corinthians 11, starting in verse two. Where am I? Am I in church? Yeah. Now I praise you because you, in remembrance of me, I'm sorry, I praise you, because you remember me and everything and hold firm into the traditions, just as I deliver them to you. But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man and the man is the head of every woman or of a woman. God is the head of Christ. Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying this grace is he won't deal with that right now. But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying this grace is her head. For she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. So in other words, she's acting like she's just like the woman whose head is shaved. Now, at this time, if you would do this, you're saying I don't have any authority. And oftentimes, like the woman whose head is unshaved, I'm out here in the streets. I am looking for a good time for payment. I'm trying to be discreet here. We've got children. So that's what he's giving the same equivalent to for that same sort of woman. This woman who is acting this way uncovered. It literally means, now the covering is twofold. The covering is something overhead that's kind of signified either like a scarf or something. But also it signifies that she has a headship over her because what was happening, women wanting to take over. But then again, the Bible speaks about this in Genesis three interestingly enough that we had Sarah Jake's reading that because verse 16 of Genesis three talks about that the woman is going to strive or want or have a desire after the man. So, notice what he says though, for if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off. But if it is disgraced before a woman didn't have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. For a man ought not to have his head covered since he is the image and the glory of God. But the woman is the glory of man now. Why they would go to this passage is to say that, well, as long as she's got a covering, as long as she's got a man over her, then she can get up and speak. I don't have a big problem with that part that she can get up and speak, but it depends on what do you mean by her getting up to speak. Can a woman in church pray out loud? Sure, can a woman in prayer? Let's say she's giving now, she's giving her testimony, whatever. Now, can she teach the people? No, she's not allowed to do that. I wouldn't care how gifted she is, how much of the scripture she knows, the Bible goes against that. But a woman gets up and says, she gives a welcome. There's nothing unbilligable about that. But you gotta be careful. You gotta be careful, because what's happening now is churches are saying, well, she is under his covering, and so yes, she can go ahead and preach. She can go ahead and teach. She can serve in this role, or in that role, or in this function. That's not what the Bible is given license to, because there's some male headship over her that now she can do the other things that the other males who are also under this senior leader. That is, it's not a loophole for people to go through. Another passage or a set of passages people turn to, and looking at this would be Priscilla and Aquila, or Aquila and Priscilla. And we're gonna find out something interesting about them, and to see what might've been one of the bigger reasons, or at least not necessarily the bigger reason, but kinda helped along Priscilla in whatever she did in her prominence. There's a big reason for that. In Acts 18, one, after these things, he left Athens and went to Corinth, that's Paul, and he found a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontius, having recently come to Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had commanded all the Jews to leave Rome, so they get persecuted and they leave. Are you with me? So we hear all throughout Scripture, I think it's about five or six, maybe seven times, that we hear the name of Priscilla and Aquila, or Aquila and Priscilla, and the part that bothers some folks is that there are passages where her name is mentioned first. Why is that the case? Don't know, but it's not a reason for you to make an issue out of it to where, hey, yeah, see, she has prominence. She doesn't have any prominence over her husband because it's her husband. She literally, biblically cannot have that, whether it's under the law or even under this new dispensation. She cannot usurp authority over her husband. Talk about authority or if able to teach a man just a second, but there's a reason why you're gonna see her being more prominently known amongst the people in just a second. But when people go to this passage to point her out as an example, well, it's because they simply don't know the word. But again, but again, doctrine is not an issue. As a matter of fact, you'll see a lot of these women being put up because I don't want to offend the masses of women at my church. In most churches, in most churches, black, white, Hispanic, whatever the larger the domination is, I'm sorry, the largest ethnic makeup is, it still tends to be more women than men. It still tends to be more women than men. And so because of that, you don't want to offend them. As a matter of fact, when you're preaching, thank you, Chaoyun, God, I appreciate that, as you're preaching is easier to say words that might trigger or move a woman that would move a man. Let's just be honest, guys, men and women are different. This isn't the Wolt Christian channel. So therefore we don't have to adhere to DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion here. Men and women are different. I don't think there should be a difference of opinion here that maybe someone disagrees. But men and women are different. Males are built differently than females. But also that means that, and let's just be honest, also men and women think differently. We just think differently. Case in point, I'm helping everyone get ready for school this morning. My wife is going to school to teach. My grandchildren, sometimes they'll spend a lot over here. Why? Because they go to her school. She teaches Montessori. And so rather than going to either doing homeschool or private school somewhere else, they go to her school and they get this little Montessori learning and so forth and so it's just down the street. So they might spend a night. Well, this morning I get up and I'm helping to get everybody ready. Helping to get everybody ready. That was just something about when women get an act, when ladies, females get an attitude versus boys. Boys' attitudes are different than girls' attitudes. And so I got a lot of female attitude this morning. It was just different. And your response as a male is different. I get that. Male and females are different. So when you're preaching, you're gonna preach a certain way that might elicit a greater response from the women. Men might otherwise, you know what? They're just sitting there with their arms up. Okay, I get you pastor. It was the woman, she's screaming, she's crying, what have you. Because pastors know I want to elicit some emotion. If I can get emotional response, I got you. If I can get one emotional response from you ladies, I got you. Same thing with the males. But it's just easier to get one from the women. This is what it is. And so sometimes you're gonna see in these places, people who have these emotional takes, especially from the women, these women co-pastors, who just say some things that's like, wow, what did you just say like we saw Sarah? But also we want things to be nice and friendly. Like you find out at Smiling Joe's church. Smiling Joe is he's the friendliest pastor that there ever was. And so quite naturally, so is his wife. They are not going to upset the apple cart. Everything's gonna be great. You can make everything great. Everything should be great because the power of your mouth can do so. Again, bad doctor. There's healing in your mouth today. There's abundance in your mouth today. There is a miracle in your mouth today. I wish that were so. I wish it were so that there was healing and abundance and a miracle in your mouth today. Well, then we would all be healed. We would all have abundance. We would all have a miracle, but that is not the case. But again, the first thing that goes by the wayside with these co-passers, these churches that have co-passers is doctrine, because doctrine doesn't matter. Now, when we speak about Priscilla McQuillan, there was something in their story that we see in the Bible that helps Priscilla to be known. To help that helps her to kind of get an appreciation. Nothing wrong with what she was doing, by the way. Nothing wrong with what she was doing. But do you ever wonder why she has some prominence? Well, maybe this is why. Let's go to Romans 16. Not one, we'll go to Romans 16 and one in a second, but go to Romans 16 and three. Greek Prisa, which is short for Priscilla, and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus, who, for my life, risked their own necks to whom not only do I give thanks, but also the churches of the Gentiles, also greet the church, look at it here, the church that is in their house. And you also, I think it's in 1st or 2nd Corinthians also, the church was meeting, or one of the churches, or the church that Paul was writing to here, was meeting in Aquila and Priscilla's house. So it's Priscilla's house. So you come in church, this is her house. Does that help anything? Does that make a difference? Because the lady of the house is the lady of the house, still her house. And so she gets a little prominence and so forth. Now, granted, I'm not saying that she's not in her word and studying like other ladies and other men, but the fact of the matter is, having it in their house does help, does kind of push it out a little bit, amen. But we cannot say that Priscilla was a co-pastor. Why can't we say that Priscilla was a co-pastor? There's a good reason to know why Priscilla wasn't a co-pastor. How do we know she wasn't a co-pastor? Because Aquila was not a pastor. Neither of them were pastors. Priscilla was not a co-pastor, Aquila was not a pastor. What were they doing? Helping with the word, like a lot of people were. It wasn't just them. And so like I'll ask all the time, are you with me? Cameron says, amen, I'm with you, Corey. So, we have to go to Phoebe because people are gonna bring up Phoebe. People are gonna bring up Phoebe because Phoebe is a pastor. She's a missionary. She's a this. No, she's not. No, she's not. She's not even in the office of a deacon. Here it is. Let's go to Romans 16-1. I commend to you our sister, Phoebe, who is a servant of the church, which is in Centria. But you see this word and you will think that servant, diaconum, well, that must mean she was in the office of a deacon. Well, she couldn't have been. Paul is not gonna contradict himself. He is not going to contradict himself and say what a deacon must be. But then we have her as a deacon. Again, the first deacons were men in Acts six. So she's not a deacon, but she's a deacon in the sense that she's serving like other people. She's not the only person in the Bible that has this title of deacon or someone that's serving. There are other people with this adjective. This is more of an adjective than it is a title. She's serving or with me. And so because of that, because of that, I think people take this out of context to mean that she is also in this office. Well, that can't be. Why can't that be? Well, because the Bible says, Paul says himself, I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man. Let's look at this. Let's break this down. I do not permit. It's not allowable. A woman is a female to teach or to exercise authority over a man. And so both of these are the same. She cannot, by the way, how do we know they're both the same? Because this word for exercise and authority, authentic, which we'll get the word authority, authentic, it's in the infinitive, but also to teach. The Dice game is also in the infinitive. So these both words are part of the same things that Paul forbids a woman to do. She cannot teach over a man and she cannot have authority over a man. It's not to say that she can't teach. That's by itself, but she also can't have authority over a man. So someone may say, well, listen, she can teach as long as she didn't have authority over a man, she can teach a man. No, she can't do that either. She cannot do that either. Why is that a problem? The reason why it's a problem because now we've got even churches that don't have co-pastors, but the wife or women are functioning as such. One of the churches here in the DFW area, it's a large church, it's a growing church, multiple campuses. This pastor and his wife were at the church with me when I was a member of Oakley Bible Fellowship. Conway Edwards had started Plants of Church called One Community Church. And his wife, Jada, Conway used to be over the singles ministry at Oakley Bible Fellowship. And so he plants a church and obviously his wife goes. And so you see her more and more now. She's not called a co-pastor, but she's teaching and preaching over men. Here's an example. In ages past, you have been faithful. I mean, like we knew the prayer because he was praying the same thing all the time. So you grow up with different experiences of prayer. And God is saying, let me just debunk this myth. Let me explain to you that you have a power that's not about a prescription. It's not about a personality. It's not about a presentation. It's sometimes in the unseen places. And I need you to know that the enemy knows the power that you have. And even if what she's saying is, you know, that, okay, fine. And she's not being charismatic in her approach or what have you. I'm not saying she's or she isn't. But there's, if you notice in the front row, there are some men, there are some men in the front. You can tell by their heads, a couple of them are bald. And because they're bald, they should know better. Or because they don't. So no, that is out of order. And I know it's a growing church and maybe there's some excitement to it, but still that cannot be there. Listen, there is no shortage of qualified men. Oh, by the way, the church should be training men to be qualified. That's a problem. That's a problem. Someone says that, well, a couple of questions. So what about someone like Melissa Doherty? Melissa Doherty's fine. Her intent is not to teach men. So if a woman has, let's say a YouTube channel or what have you, and men go there and listen, well, that's not on her. That's on men. And she's not, it's not that she's teaching. She's going on the scripture because her ministry is clearly geared towards women. And she talks about things. And someone goes to listen. That doesn't mean that she has to just, you know what, let me push stop on this record button. Let me just close up. Let me go find a man to come and say it because I see there's two or three men in the chat. So no, that's not how that works. She can say that. She has a voice. Now, if she's setting up shop to do so and if she's going to teach men, well, that's a problem. If that's her intent. She can't, well, I would say this. Can a woman lead a woman's Sunday school class? Well, sure, there's nothing against that. But matter of fact, you can find a biblical authority for that, a biblical citation because older women teaching the younger men that's having to deal with kind of all of it, her life and so forth, but also with the word as well. That's not a problem with that. She just can't be teaching men. So can a woman share the gospel with a man outside of a church? Or yet, well, we do see Priscilla Nequilla sharing the gospel. A woman can, according to the scriptures, share the gospel. They're not teaching or having authority over a man in the church because this person is sharing the gospel with any part of the church, is he? So let's just, let's give it for instance. Here's a man who has distraught and a woman, they just, they strike up a conversation and she shares her love for Jesus. And she sees that he needs to hear the gospel and she gives them the gospel. Amen. If some guys are sitting there having a conversation and they're both just way off. They both are just way off. And then let's say, lovely or Layla, show up. Hey, wait a second, wait a second. You guys ought to be watching the Smart Christians channel, but since you don't, let me share the true word of God. They can do that. They can do that. Now, can they have this office set up? Can they, can that be their practice? I'm going, you can give the word of God. You can let somebody know what's happening. Another example, the woman at the well. Jesus speaks to her, what does she do? She goes and tells these men in the village the people and they come back. Did she, did she usurp authority over him? No, she did not. No, let me tell you about a man that I met. Wow, what an awesome testimony. He told me about everything that I've ever done. Let's go see who this man is. That's all that happened. That's all that happened guys. So it's not, we don't want to go too far and say a woman has to be seen without her. She can't shut your mouth, lady. No, that is not what the Bible teaches. Again, if that were the case, then Jesus should have rebuked the woman at the well. Priscilla and Quilla, Priscilla should have been put out the church for having, I mean, a Quilla should have been put out the church for having this disobedient woman who's usurping Paul authority. No, a woman can share the gospel. Now after that, in terms of this man growing in the world, that is for the office of a male to do so. And oh, by the way, just every other male doesn't have the responsibility either. It's not also that any old man can get up and do it as well, okay? But that's just what the scriptures teach us, amen? So this whole point of a woman having her head covered does not give her the right or the authority to go and start preaching or teaching over a man. Paul didn't say, I forbid a woman to do so unless, unless her father is there, or unless her husband is there, unless some other man, that is not what the Bible says to do. She can't do so just because there's some male covering. Now, these women at these churches, there's pressure on them. There is pressure, for example. People are gonna wanna know about the pastor's wife, the First Lady. Is the First Lady biblical? Yeah, it's not biblical or unbiblical. The Bible doesn't say. If you wanna call her First Lady, that's fine. Now, is she to be esteemed over every other woman? No, however, however, there is something about that woman that needs to be there. There's a qualification of her that needs to be there, that's not necessarily there for a regular man in the audience. Meaning, his wife has to be a certain way. This man is managing the house. Well, if she is chaotic and she's whatever, that necessarily affects him, doesn't it? That means he can't be qualified. If she can disqualify his ministry, she can. But in the audience, Bob is sitting there and Bob and his wife, Mary, are going through something. Is Bob disqualified from sitting in the audience? No, as a matter of fact, Bob is where he should be. So to his Mary. Thank you. Alan Edify, that's a nice name, Alan Edify. Thank you for the super stick. I appreciate that. Now, there is a role for men and women. There is, we need both, but God set this up again. Now what you gotta always use is, you've got a 18-wheeler coming up the on-ramp. You got a little small Volkswagen in the right-hand lane. 18-wheeler coming up the on-ramp, the small Volkswagen in the right-hand side. Somebody's got a yield. Well, the 18-wheeler could just simply just keep going, keep trucking and just crush the Volkswagen. It's not an issue of power. Even an issue of ability. The issue is right-of-way. Who, biblically, is supposed to yield. That Volkswagen has the right-of-way, and so the bigger vehicle that has the ability to crush the Volkswagen is to yield. That's how the Bible sets it up. Does it have something to do with Eve? I imagine it does, because that's when this order is set out. When Paul says it was the woman who was deceived and not the man, or was he referring to? He's referring to Adam and Eve, and she was deceived and not the man sinned. And so he sets things up. Now how is it gonna be going forward if they had not fallen? Don't know, but this is just what it is right now. And so as long as she has, at any time she has an opportunity to where she can give the word of God, but she's not usurping a man's authority or teaching over a man, that's not her goal, or her ministry, but let's say she's sharing the word of the Lord, then amen to somebody who needs to hear it. The man has been stabbed, he's got a wound. We're waiting for the ambulance to get up, to get there. And this man might believe that, but he's conscious, and she's sharing the gospel. Sorry, ma'am, sorry, sweetheart, you need to leave. Let's go find a man. There's no male Christians here? Sorry, fella, gotta go to hell. That's not how that works. That's not how that works. Here's another question. Can she pray? Can a woman pray for a man? Sure she can. Sure she can. That's not teaching or having authority now. Some of these prayers get to be like they're like mini sermons. That's a whole another conversation. But she's a part of the body, and the part of the body is to help the other parts of the body. You guys have asked me about this lady multiple times. I'm gonna go check her out. Tiffany Montgomery, I'm gonna go check her out. I'm gonna go check her out. So what about a women's service where men attend? Well, the service, fine. If there's a woman service, it's set up for the women. And some fellas show up, that's fine. They're showing them. Maybe they're just there to check things out and make sure everything's in up and up and what have you. That's perfectly fine. There's nothing ungodly about that where the woman has to stop speaking now. Okay? Thank you, Lord, I appreciate that. But now guys, hey man, I like how you said that. I like how she just said that we have confused a woman's worth with the order of God. God has placed a man over the home and church. Hey man, because here's what I believe. Here's what I believe, sister. Men have messed, let's just, hold on, hold on, hold on. Hold on, guys, hold on before I step into it. Let me step into it. But before I do, let me drink my coffee. Men have so thoroughly messed things up. Let's call it what it is. Men have so, how bad have you messed it up to where now the women like, let's go pick up and fight? Could you imagine, could you imagine if we got women on the front lines fighting wars, which I don't think we should, that's just me. I don't think that women should be on the front lines. That's just me. Call me old fashioned. Matter of fact, hold on, wait a second. And I might get myself in trouble. I might get myself in trouble, but I gotta ask Carol. Carol, what do you think? Carol, do you think it's okay? Do you think women should be on the front line? I know there's someone that would want to be on the front. Now, let's say if they're the fighter jet, I may be, but you know what, that equipment is heavy. Told you all about my brief stint in the military. That army bag that you gotta carry, that duffel bag, that bag, that's a heavy bag. Not to mention the rest of your gear. That, that's just me. I'm already in trouble. I might be in trouble. I've been in trouble for a while, but I personally wouldn't I want to see that? Especially if something happens and not likely, but it's happened before where the woman gets taken captive. Not a pretty picture to think of. It's not something you want to think of. My female soldier being taken captive by male enemy. Male getting taken captive, that's a different story. You knew what you signed up for, buddy. Tough it out. Tough it out. Go down fighting, but the woman, yeah. We got a problem. We got a problem. That's just me. That's just me. Okay. So what do you want, but you didn't tell me. What do you think? What do you think? I'm a battalion commander, but okay, okay. All right. Well, you know what? But Carol's a tough lady. She probably kicked half you guys' tail in the chats anyway. But that's just me. Now I'm not saying she should have been in the first place. She should have been in the mess hall cooking. I'm not, oh, she's been in secretary. That's not what I'm saying. That's not what I'm saying, but just me. It's just me. There's some things I just don't want women doing. Some things I don't want men doing. In my house, I don't know why it is, but I take out the trash. Sometimes trash is heavy, so I can pick it up and take it out. Although I gave my family my blessings, that everyone in the house who has the letter A, we have my permission to empty the bathroom trash cans into the big trash can. That's not necessarily a man's role. That is gender fluid. That role is open to everybody. That's a unisex role. Everybody can empty the small trash can into the big trash can. I'll take the big trash bag out, even at night, no problem. I should be the one putting the gas in the gas tank because there's some idiots out there who might want to take advantage of you. I open the door. I walk into the house first, one day my, I think of my daughter. She said, well, why do you get to go in first? I said, because if it's a killer man. I said, go ahead, go in there first. That way the killer can get you and then mean your mama can get away. No, that's just me. That's just me. There are certain things and I'm the kind of person that if you do something to a woman and you're a man, you should get beat. And I mean beat severely. But she hit him. I don't care, toughy, take it. See, I know this for a fact that I've seen this. You know, guys, well, she hit me. So I'm gonna hit her back. I've seen guys make that same, do the same thing but then when a guy much, much, much, much, much bigger, let's say you are Kevin Hart's size. You know, five, two, five, three. I don't know how big he is. And a woman hits him and I'm gonna hit her back. But then Shaq hits him. Hey man, what you give me for? Let's talk it out, right? So I think if you were a man, you can take it. If you can't take it, well, now's your training, learn it. I do not. No, no, and I've been hit a few times by women, by ladies, not by women, but by girls. The last time a woman hit me, I guess she wasn't the one we were in high school. A girl hit me, she hit me good too. She got me good, but I just, hey, I got to take that. I got to take that. So, and if you're around a woman that's hitting you, well, then you need to do a better job of choosing them. That's your problem also. But I just think there are certain things that women should be protected on. And I think this, and you tell me, you ladies tell me this, in the church and in the household, I don't think a woman has a problem submitting to a godly man because they'll see that he is a godly man. I don't think people have, matter of fact, men don't have a problem with, she said, I can fight too, women don't have a problem with, or men don't have a problem with submitting to a godly man because he's a godly man. Even men, when they recognize a strong sound leader, they follow, no problem, no problem. And so I don't think women have a problem either. It's just that sometimes we don't see enough of them. But this issue of a co-pastor, there can be male co-pastors, there can be. Matter of fact, I can't, it escapes my mind right now, but I know of a church, I can't think of the name of this church, where the head of the church are two men. There are two men that lead the church. Now how they work that out, and there are other elders as well, but how they work it out, they're just fortunate to have two good sound men. And they do certain things different than the other, but they're both good sound men, strong men. But, but a man and a woman is co-pastor, no such thing. No such thing. Can he have under shepherds or assistant pastors? That's fine, does the Bible call out or name assistant pastors? Not necessarily, but again, somebody was assisting somebody at the first church. Remember, remember, Peter was called the first among equals. He spoke for over everyone, but was he the head of Bartholomew? No, could he go and tell, that is what to do? No, but did they kind of follow under him? They actually did, they actually did. How far am I from Flower Mount? I'm on the opposite end of Dallas County, Bray. So, let's just, Mr. Valentine, why are you so late, sir? Why are you so late, sir? I see you coming in. I'm just messing with you. I'm glad you're here, brother, glad you're here. So, if your church is a church where you've got women, assistant pastors, leave your church, leave, get out of dodge, get to moving because if you are going to start, remember, remember guys, let's just go back to the qualifications for, you know, let's stay in Titus, let's stay in Titus, let's stay in Titus. If you're going to just ignore the qualifications, by the way, the qualifications are pretty easy. These qualifications are pretty easy, and if you're going to ignore these easy and evident qualifications and start discounting this passage and other passages like it, well then, now you're going to start ignoring and undermining other passages, which is no wonder we see the deity of Christ under assault, which is no wonder why we see salvation under assault, which is why we see this distortion of the Holy Spirit, which is why we see a lot of compromise in the body, because if you can compromise on this passage, well then you can compromise on the next passage and therein lies the problem. If you don't have a fidelity to the scripture, well then you don't have a pastor and you don't have a church, you've got an assembly of some people who are trying to figure it out and they're not figuring out the right way. So guys, thank you so much. Be interested to hear your comments on the other side, but in the meantime, God bless and I will see you later.