 Welcome everyone. It's the 18th of November 2022. This is Jenkins documentation office hours today's agenda action items Jenkins elections The next long-term support release next Friday November 24th and The Thanksgiving blog post Any other topics you'd like to put on the agenda? Yes Small discussion on GSOC 2023. Okay. All right, so let's put that up at the top GSOC 2023. Okay Any other topics? Okay, then let's go ahead with with these topics. So action items We've shifted one action item to Kevin Kevin Martins the archive the docs mailing list and switch to community.jankins.io Because I was making no progress and Kevin has been not as been elected as the documentation officer So I get to offload that I Have a new action item to create a pull request to document document the web application server support policy This is things like Tomcat Glassfish Wildfly Etc web sphere so these web application servers have Interesting complexities and the reality is we don't have any core developer There's actively using one or actively testing it and so we need to tell people hey The web application server we support is the one we ship everything else. You're on your own Any questions on the action items? Oh Oh Okay, Google code 2023. Do you ask what was your question or what what topics? Yes, so For that and Can you explain that Tomcat glassfish or wildfire again? I'm sorry. Oh sure Yeah, so so a web application server is a Is a piece of Java software that's able to host Multiple other components underneath of it So what what happens is you run a web application server say wildfly what what's known what was previously known as J boss You run this thing and it Then hosts a bunch of other web applications war files under it and it presents a HTTP interface a web interface to its consumers for multiple applications underneath this single thing It's there's a there's a thing called Java EE Which is a so Java Enterprise Edition which is now becoming Jakarta EE under the eclipse foundation and And these web application servers commonly implement Subsets or the entire specification of this Java EE or Jakarta EE Did that answer your question? Yes, it did. This is interesting because The wildfly application is managed maintained by the right. I contribute to it. This hack the buffest as well few test related Contribution that's how I wanted to know more about it here. That's yes. Yes. Well, and and there's a there's an interesting connection between wildfly and Jenkins or cloud bees Sasha Labore the CEO at cloud bees was one of the original creators of J boss Wow, so so yeah, so yes, there's a there's a history of this this thing in Lots of places, but right now it's not actively being tested or actively being supported by any of the core maintainers of the Jenkins project We believe it works in certain configurations, but not being tested or checked. Oh So it's not maintained by anyone from Jenkins, right? That's the issue No, it's not that it's it's it's that the Jenkins project does not test. Oh Oh Does not test Jenkins inside those containers those application service Okay, that makes sense and because we don't we really we are not willing to declare tier one support tier one Agreement etc. Tier one plans for something we don't test Sure makes sense That's all all right, so did that address your question? Definitely, thanks a lot. All right Google summer of code. Yes about this one when I go to get a channel and G-soc sick channel I This timeline we see lots of newcomers Coming in the channel and saying hey, how do I it started? Can you tell me I know this this tech tech stack? Which are the projects that I can contribute to so it gets These questions are very relevant, but that we need to reply to each one of them to be fair because each of them is a new member and deserves a reply and But it does get redundant So I was wondering like what do you think? About a blog post for them, but then I am answering myself But then we do have blog posts in place which lists down the projects to contribute to right So then for example the Hattable fest doing how to first we did have a black blog post Which listed down the projects where we can contribute to So, but do we need to have a G-soc specific blog post? So that we can just simply share the link with these people Whenever they ask hey, how can I contribute you can say that? Hey look at this blog post that will Guide you so what do you think? I think I think that's very reasonable. Why not? You could also if if a blog post is too much is more hassle than you as more more challenging than you want you could as readily post Create a page on community dot Jenkins that I owe that tries to describe. Hey, I'm a brand new contributor How can I contribute? And and then you could you could Say all right here Do this do this do this I Think any one of those would be great a blog post that lists the projects and how to contribute sounds good Specific focus on Google Summer of Code contributors. Yes But you're looking I mean right now what we're seeing are people who are Shopping the open source projects in preparation to apply for G-soc, right? Correct. These are G-soc wannabes Correct. Yeah So what these are is potential potential G-soc G-soc applicants, right and What we need to do is we want to Encourage them to get involved and we accept that That most of them will Say they are interested and then do nothing and Hey Right. It's just That's that's okay, right? That's no harm, but that really I think means derives to your point We don't want to invest an awful lot of time writing each one of them a personalized answer Because really if we retain If one in ten of them or one in twenty of them actually make a Contribution, that's a that's a good ratio. That's a that's a positive ratio Yeah, I agree That's why I thought Like instead of just replying a customized reply to all of them You can just direct them to something where they can just look at it by themselves and then decide Right. I do. Okay. We know how old school I am I like the idea of the page that has the steps to this to this to this and it's up there the Problem with blogs blogs would be great for somebody to do a blog on what it was like for them to be in G Sock and that would be great and what they had to do but blogs tend not to get maintained And they tend to get old but they sit out there and they're sort of mostly true But there's a couple of things so Whereas if it's you know straight steps on the web page you have to do this you have to do this And you should do this, but you don't have to or whatever Yeah, so well, so so let me offer a different angle then on how how we might do that We could we could rotate through a series of plugins And Custom answer each each request with a different plug-in and The same modernizing the same improve a plug-in tutorial so Dear Raj just thinking through This is me me offering an idea. Yeah, it's we're welcome to just reject it, but we've got 10 or 15 plugins that have been adopted by John Mark by Bruno by me So we're reasonably comfortable that if they submit a pull request We'll review it Okay, so they're not going to submit a pull request and have it languish and die But we don't want to on each request for hey, I'd like to contribute Give the same plug-in because they'll duplicate work But knowing that most of them will not do any work at all even when we tell them What if we just had a rotating list that we said, okay? Here's the ten We're gonna first answer we give one then two then three then four and after we hit the end of the list We roll over and give one again If it's not already been all the way done and and I haven't seen any one of them be all the way done yet Hmm, I think it's a good idea so Create a rotating list basically a what what do you call that? A rotating list of plugins with maintainers with willing maintainers, right? Mm-hmm and respond with a different with with the next plug-in in the list Each time a question is each time a new person asks And can we put a time limit on it so they don't feel like you know Somebody gets it they say I'm gonna do it in six months and they come back and it's been reassigned Can we say you know like when this is this when you get this if we don't see significant action in two months Or something that could be reassigned see we're not we don't even assign them So okay, that's that that for me is the one of the mistakes. I've made in the past Even with Jenkins.io issues is assigning them to a person because inevitably in One in ten cases the assigned person actually does something with it, right? It's pretty common. They say please assign it to me assign it and then nothing happens, right? So in this case we don't assign it We just we just answer with her from the rotating list and if we got a rapid-fire request for ten The 11th person will get the same one as the first person did What do you think do you Raj? Do you think that would that would give us a chance to now? We still we point them to the same page every time improve a pipeline or improve a plug-in tutorial and Choose this plug-in to do it and now we know if they submit something we've got tutors We've got mentors ready to help them So your idea to present a one specific plug-in along with this tutorial link Is that you're that you're specifying them to an exact plug-in where you can help so you don't have to spend time on shopping Right the idea. Well, see one of one of my worries when we say contribute here is they look at the list and say That's too big a field. I have no idea where to go Whereas if we tell them here is an exactly one plug-in and here is a tutorial that you can follow that will tell you How to improve that plug-in? And in fact, we can tell them there are two tutorials, right? Because tutorial one is improve a plug-in tutorial two is read the Google doc contributing to open source and it's full of more things By the time they finish the first tutorial, they're probably skilled enough to actually use the second one hmm and so another question is this suggestion of Would be an answer to the question of hey, I'm new. How can I contribute to Jenkins, right? right Okay, so But in that case we would need to Specify that if you contribute to this task They would need to know Java Get maybe when something like that. So sometimes people you can see that there are some people who just know C++ C So would be we suggesting This task to them as well. I think so so let's okay Let me I'm going to take the mark weight history, right? so I came from a C background pure C and Only got into Java because I had to and and by the time I was contributing to Jenkins I had it was even worse I'd gone through C and done a little bit of Java and then switched to manager and so here I was a non non Java programmer But I absolutely wanted to fix them fix them add some more tests to a certain plug-in Because I was tired of it being broken so I started adding tests and and by adding those tests after a year or two of Annoying the the maintainers with tests. They said let's make this person a Maintainer today so that So the the tests can arrive without us having to review everyone Hmm, so so I don't I don't think there's anything wrong with a C programmer or a C++ programmer or a Python or a Rust or whoever deciding they want to try some Java It's a good skill to have if they choose not to do it. That's up to them I you know, I don't think them walking away From from our offering. Here's what here's a way you could get involved with us No problem. We're not hurt if they walk away but we just keep rotating through the list of of This queue of plug-ins Yes, now I personally because we cannot Go back to the same problem of custom replies So we cannot just the custom reply then based on what text I did, you know, so I think this one right well And if if they say hey I actually many times don't care what tech stack they know especially because The tech stack that they know is not actually an indicator of whether or not they'll contribute Many of them come in and say I'm I'm skilled in Java If we were to actually test their Java skills We would walk away in total disgust and say I'm sorry, you're not skilled in Java quit saying that But that's that's not important right it doesn't matter if they're whether they're skilled in Java or not is actually completely irrelevant To to they can do something and the things they can do will help them So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna actually create a sheet and you're actually I'm gonna make you and me both both editors on it Okay, so let's see plugins Plugins With Maintainers with willing maintainers. Okay, so here we go and I'm going to get let anyone with the link At least comment and I'm gonna add dirage as an editor So this is a test right and and it's a great excuse. It's it's really marvelous if a Past GSock contributor is the one saying hey, this is how you do it It's much better than if an or a admin does it if you do it you have an air of credibility saying oh Yeah, I did it last year and here's how here's how you could get started to hmm. I see your point That makes sense So let's see so plug-in URL and Last last mentioned So would that be okay if oh, let's see. We probably need one more One more column which is plug-in name and last mentioned To a new contributor so if we just put a date there. Oh, that's not how it works. It's equals now maybe Okay, you know about this Okay, so The idea then is all right. I'm gonna put a plug-in here. I'm gonna put one in I just adopted today X shell. I know it needs a dot it needs a things added and I am more than willing to review proposed changes Here we go. All right, so Let's see plug-in. Do we want do we want to give them the plug-in site? No, we probably want to give them the source code repository, right? Yes. Okay, so this one and There it is so now what we have is Voila, okay, so if If it was last mentioned to a contributor then all you do is rotate through this thing saying hey Here's the last mention I'll put I've got five or ten others that I can put in there and then try it Let's see how it works say hey. Here's the plug-in use this one at This URL and take take this the tutorial Use the improve a plug-in tutorial Now one of the things that John Mark and I have been discussing is possibly will do and an improve a plug-in workshop Maybe in January or February where you invite people who are interested to come and we'll tutor them directly Okay, so that would be live, right? Yeah, that was the idea. Yeah now because it's a tutorial it it's not something we can do With 50 people attending it would be six or eight We just can't we can't run a lab remotely with with many many people. We have to have a fairly small group Yes, that makes sense So when we use this sheet, you would be updating the mode List of plug-ins here, right? Yeah, in fact, I was just going to go ahead and do it now If you're okay with it, I'll just I'm gonna go go look and see all right, so get grab minus L Marquee wait Okay, so here are plug-ins that need Attention, so now let's put that through a little bit of magic Jane can see I Okay, oops Sorry for making you watch me do Scripting, okay, so that should give us Interesting places where people can contribute and so if I take some examples I'm just gonna start pasting these dirage watch this so here we go and some of them I admit I'm going to delete because There are some of them that I actually don't want To bother with people submitting a pull request for it's like This one this one this one Here we go delete Okay That one probably not it's just too complicated. Okay. That's good Yeah, actually, no, this one is deprecated and may I don't think we want to put people on something It'll be good. So That gives you 15 to rotate with right now Whoops, that's the wrong Oops, oops implied labels. No So back to the question dirage. Do you think this is okay? Do you think this will work? I think so because It With this we would be giving them the exact area where they can contribute and since I now agree that Text that would not be that big of a challenge for them. So this is a good way. They can start contributing Good. Okay, and we did have some success during having a fest as well When they started new commerce added contributing to plugins and their first question Before contributing was that hey, how do I pick a plug-in? So we are eliminating that Exactly, and I think that's I think that's a this this is This is let's We tell them which plug-in to to Improve and we rotate The the answer the plug-in the plug-in answer each time we give an answer and How do we use it? So for example, you would copy the plug-in URL of actual plug-in and share it with Contributed on the channel after that you would update the timestamp, right? Okay, so equal to now Yeah, so equals now Inserts the value and then you press f2 and then f9 to convert it to literal So that it sticks. Whoops. It's supposed to do that Okay, how do I make it? Remind me Meg. How do I make it stick? I thought it was I don't do these sheets at all. I'm terrible Okay, let's see. So can there's a way to convert This thing into a value Okay, let me look it up just a minute Google sheet convert Formula to value, okay, and it says come on. There's got to be real Google's own help sells with formulas into raw text Okay, here we go. They make me use paste special. No, that's not what I want Okay, we'll try the top one I've been spammed just by viewing there. Okay copy and then paste. That's really that's obnoxious Okay, so what that really says is I have to do a copy and then I paste special Value only and that didn't help me at all. So how do I do it? I'll have to think about this more How about how about we just use a number? How would we how would we do that derage because if I put a formula in? That thing will keep updating Right when I when I refresh this page It didn't so freezes Maybe I don't know. No, I don't know see notice. It's it's Yeah, see every time I do a recalculation it updates that cell so There's I what I need is in in Excel I press f2 and f9 and it converts it into the value But somehow or other that's not it's not doing that for Convert formulas to value. Oh, I know I know let's ask the question differently with Function keys take all formulas. No, it really says control C control V Okay, here's what we want to do that's format this as a date. Oh I don't know derage. Sorry. There's got to be a better way to do it Yeah, so let's put it when we when we mention it Insert something that says I mentioned it a number Let's try it. You okay with trying it? Yes, all right, okay, so anything else on GSOC 2023 Yes, little question. So what what do you think about that contributor who contributed to node label parameters? Was there any contribution related to I Mean how was their contribution because I because I'm in touch with her on LinkedIn as well and that's how I Got I was asking about her feedback after Had to a fest and she told me that here It took me a lot of time to figure out which plug-in should I contribute to so that's why I thought about it Yeah, good. She will do well with the plug-in. So so she's she's submitted Several I believe let's look at the pull requests that have been closed because I believe and I think that that contributor was even highlighted in the blog post For Hacktoberfest So, let's let's double-check to be sure. Okay, so three three have been submitted two of them have been No, three So, yes, there are three closed so three that were submitted and accepted during Hacktoberfest And one that is still pending and if we look at the conversation here What you'll see is this and I'm shi Jagruti I think that's who you're mentioned you're referring, right? Yes. So Jagruti asked me hey mark Can you help me understand how to write this test? And I had to say I'm I'm I don't have time right now I've got to do this other work and and she came back and said hey, can I help you with the other work? And so here was her question. You think I can lend a hand with this release So I've got to release the get plug in there's some things. I've got a test in it before I release it I said sure here. And so we started a conversation Here's what you would need to do to help me test I pointed her to The technique I use but the technique I use is sort of unique to me. She said hey, I'm on Windows not on Linux What can I do? And so I I crafted okay, here's what you do on on On Linux Now here's the same thing for a windows user So I got the benefit that now I have a way of doing this same kind of testing setup that I use On windows and it it works really quite nicely actually. I'm really pleased with it And hopefully she'll be able to use it as a way to help test this This very specific Pull request that I'm getting ready to merge and ship That is just great Thanks for spending time Yeah, well, and I think if we look at the blog post, let's see it in the blog post Because the blog post just came out today October fest in jenkins 2022 Chris jim Stefan keila. Oh, nope. Nope. This one did not get in there hers did not get in there Are you sure? I will no, I'm not sure. Let's look. Hang on. I thought I saw j's on there Oh, you're right. Yes, I take it back. There it is based in Mumbai Jagruti Tiwari, right Yes Nice Okay Yes, sir. I think that answers my question. Great All right, so Next topic then was jenkins elections. I wanted to just highlight that they we had planned to do elections beginning today, however As in years past When we get only one nomination for a role We don't need to have an election And all the board and officer positions are uncontested. So we have exactly one person to fill each one So alex brandis will be a member of the board beginning december 3rd Uli Hoffner a member of the board And our officers tim jacom Continues as reliefs officer elissa as events officer vodek as security officer Kevin martins will be the new documentation officer We'll continue this meeting with me running it And damien deportal as infrastructure officer Nice group Yeah, yep. Well, and I would have liked to have had more nominees for all of them, but You know, we got what we got So in let's see other topics just so you're aware lts for 2.3 75.1 is coming Alex brandis is the the release lead for it And kevin and I will be working kevin's doing the the first work on prepping the changelog and the upgrade guide If you've got a chance to do jankin's testing 2.3 75 is an excellent choice to test and Next friday no no meeting because it's a u.s. Holiday Thanksgiving nice That's correct. And so so in in the spirit of that kevin martins is going to attempt to assemble a thanksgiving blog post To thank the companies that sponsor us And maybe we should say organizations because it's not just companies it's Open the osu the old oregon state university pager duty, et cetera that's data dog Many others All right, any other topics no, but When we were discussing about those contributors who come in and say that I want to contribute and they just vanish I wanted to add that I was one of them because last year I tried to add a test for jankin's configuration is code plugin And I added that and I took help from umark as well And even then I thought that hey I think this would work and this would get it merged and when then tim said that hey Can you change this small thing to this this this which I did not understand at all? So I said sure I can do that and after that I was not able to do it Month after month was not able to do it but then And believe me every Once or twice every month I would think about that pull request for sure And finally during having to our first I thought that maybe let's face my fears and I went back to that pull request and saw that the comment by tim was very Like very trivial and I read the documentation and got to know that hey, okay. This is what he's asking I could do that then I Made the changes and the build passed and I said sorry tim for 1.5 year of wait But can you review this again? Because I thought that if there was an option to block someone on github that would be Tim but I'm over exaggerating. But yes, it get more it got worse. So this is the journey well and and That's an excellent Excellent and very real Sequence for many people right they they arrive they they may not stay but they may come back Sometime later so very healthy for us to be sure that we're we're welcoming of people who return We're not angry or bitter at people leave We accept then hey if they leave that's okay if they stay that's great And we try to keep persuading people to stay and trying to find ways to help them stay But if they don't stay we're not going to complain Exactly this is what I found nice as well. So shout out to tim For not being rude All right, excellent Any other topics for today? Nothing from my side. Okay