 Welcome, everyone. This is joint rules taking place on Tuesday, December 28. We have one agenda item for today's meeting, which we have been talking about and we talked about at the last meeting that it's our goal here to check in before we come back next week. And to reassess if we continue on our journey on plan a or is it time to visit plan B. We've all been closely monitoring omicron variant and have seen the news and heard the information from the CDC and other sources about the timing of the surge and when it comes and unfortunately a lot of this is happening right as we're bringing everyone back to the building and so I think it makes sense for us to regroup and have a conversation about whether it's time to to to move to a plan B so with that I apologize for the delay and getting us started today and just a reminder that everyone in the room to wear your mask and make sure it's covering your nose in your mouth. So I open it up to members. I know we've been talking a lot with caucuses are caucuses and would love to hear what the feedback you've been hearing representative long and then send our Clarkson. Thank you. Thank you for talking to our members and caucuses and in for all the reasons that you just stated. This bigger Quincy and for the feedback that we've been getting I do think as I would prefer to see us be able to just step back into this building in normal way immediately. The circumstances on the ground today with this current surge that is going on. I think it might make sense for us to give ourselves a two weeks to go remote and to be able to reassess in that two weeks. So coming back and how how we come back because I do think that this is a really fluid situation and things change, honestly, not just by the day but honestly by the hour. And things may look very different next week. Well, Senate rules has met and as you know, Senate rules is very much supportive of that of beginning remotely we enabled ourselves the opportunity to begin the session remotely so we will have our first day on Tuesday, working remotely and will be passing through this effect. So we also support beginning with the freight train of Omicron coming at us and with the expected holiday surge when Michael P check tells us we may expect a thousand cases a day. I think that one of our responsibilities is quite frankly to meet in a healthy and safe way and not subject our members to anything that would put their health or the public health who are coming to be our witnesses at risk. And I think until we get through this freight train of Omicron coming at us. This is a hard truth that we will should probably meet remotely. We in the Senate will probably be reconsidering this a little later but probably at the end of January, but I think we all can reconsider in two weeks and we are absolutely on board with that plan. Senator Brock and then Senator mother. Clearly we want to do what makes sense. And certainly what makes sense from a health standpoint. So I think we have to make a decision, given where we are with Omicron of having the ability to meet remotely for a very limited period of time with very close check in points and check in dates I think is critical. I think though that if we do, additionally, do decide to do something like that, of course, obviously each individual chamber will make their own decisions but as joint rules recommendations. So we really ensure that we have, if we're using trigger points of some kind decide what we do that we have some scientific or medical or public health basis for doing so rather than our gut opinion or feeling of what the right numbers ought to be. We've got to have a mechanism and it may well be through joint rules that we get a protocol established with that kind of input testimonial if necessary between now and as soon as possible to do so. And I think we all have to commit though that our goal and all of this is to be here in person doing the people's business in the way that it should be done. At the same time, not do things that perhaps jeopardize the health of not only ourselves or with us. All right, continue. I think that's, I think that's it in a nutshell. Absolutely, I think it's going to be critical given the evolving situation that we, you know, we meet. We'll need to figure out a schedule but I think you're right we're going to have to be meeting on a regular basis to ensure that we're filing the most up to date information and getting more support and expertise from public health about the best way for us to come back because we're different. We have people coming in from all corners of the state different people different days. We have a old HVAC system that's going to take years to repair. There's just all these other factors that, you know, we just need something that suits the needs of this building representative McCoy and then Senator. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Senator month. We had talked in Senate rules. Would it be for those who have to travel and stay in Montpelier would it be better to go a month and then make a decision or just two weeks because we had talked about a month before people have to make decisions to stay here and stay in Montpelier. And then we would decide at the end of January but is that too soon too later. I want to see my son, but I want to jump in. I mean I think Senator mother I'll start and then if others want to jump in. I think after evolving conversations what we're all concerned about is what is, what is for what is the trigger what is the mechanism based on public health data and guidance that says it's safe for us and so instead of tying it to a certain date we're saying we know two weeks make sense in terms of spread and mitigation. And in that time we work together to figure out what that combination of numbers is to help us know when to make that call to go back remote if needed. Yep. I'm so representative McCoy and then we'll. So, you know, I, it's, it's difficult for me to acquiesce to the two, two weeks I mean that's what I'm acquiescing to as we come back on January 18. With the caveat that if the numbers are so off the charts within those two weeks having in mind what we've heard is the Omicron has, you know, we haven't seen that the peak of it yet. So that's why I am agreeing to January 8 as our start date, having in mind we need to have what we should be working for and looking at is what is the trigger that triggers us not to come back as opposed to we're back January 18, except for whatever we, you know, the scientists and doctors feel we should be using as a trigger to get us to come back. Because, you know, as I told you many times, speaker. Everybody, you know, everybody's back, we've had school children back since last year we've had, you know, we've had factory workers going back we've got Walmart employees that never left their job so for us to hold ourselves to some different standard. Having in mind, you know, we're a little bit different in that we have the public coming in from all walks of the state of Vermont that may change a little bit what we do but we've made this building as safe as we as we possibly make this building we have mask mandates in place. We're strongly suggesting every legislator get rapid tested on Monday and Tuesday, if you are not vaccinated, then you take a PCR test on Wednesdays of every week. Social distancing, you know, changing cafeteria time so that we don't have as many people in the cafeteria short and committee time so you can go outside and I mean, that just doesn't happen and other jobs you're standing at your register for four hours and then you get a 15 minute break with Lord knows who comes through your, your want check out line. So, I will acquiesce to the January 18 with the caveat that we, we hear from medical professionals and scientists to tell us, yes, you know, this is the trigger and we have not met that trigger so you can go back. This is from Dr Lady the state epidemiologist from UVM Medical Center who said, I made the comment where representative McCarthy sat and he said there's little to no chance of COVID spreading, then representative long who's sitting right next to McCarthy made the same comment and he said once again if you're fully mask, there is little to no spread. So I just want to make that absolutely clear that my goal is we are back in this house doing the people's work in the people's house on January 18. All right, so I saw a couple hands so I'll go to Senator Clarkson and Senator Brock and then representative long. And that is a goal we all hold dear patting. I also think that we are in about to hit a peak of a whole new piece of this COVID epidemic, and that we need to be able to respond in thoughtful and safe and healthy ways and only a full doesn't remind and with all the information we now have on what's about to hit us. I think we would be foolish to place our public and our legislators and our staff at that risk. I also would like to have us look at the holiday guidance that was put on the Vermont Department of Health website and they say that you know in addition to all the things we know get faxed get boosted. They mass, they say keep it small. This is not keeping it small by our gathering here, even with the public, which has had the most incredible access they have the unprecedented access to our work that they've ever had in the history of Vermont, which will continue happily. The even so we are about 300 people working in this building. And so keep that is not keeping it small that is not abiding by their holiday guidelines. So for me it's just as important to, you know, with where we're our responsibilities protect ourselves and protect our public. And quite honestly, a lot of the world is responding and closing back down a lot of companies are going back remote Broadway has shut down and you know Broadway, you know is a great indicator for indoor indoor spaces, and they are pretty much all shutting down again. So there are responses to what's happening in this moment with COVID. Alright, Senator Brock and then representative long. This is this is a more mundane practical comment related to what Senator Mazza had mentioned is we do have a number of members who make long term commitments or medium term commitments for lodging in Montpelier. And he was looking for a month for that reason. I think whatever we ultimately decide whether it's two weeks or a month or whatever, that we should take into account those commitments that members have made and look at the extent to which we could provide some relief to those who committed because of that. Absolutely. That is something that we agree, we agree on and we'll set up like we have in the past right there. The in terms of the triggers that we're looking at we talked about things like hospitalization. We may look at a secondary trigger of something like death rate on a weekly basis to go forward. What I think we also ought to think about is the exposure rate or case rate within this building. We find for example that this is a super spreader. That should be a trigger as well. And so we should add that but again the key is getting some competent medical advice as well as advice from our public health authorities as to what is the right thing and what is the sensible thing from a scientific basis for us to do right here here. Thank you. So that's a great segue to what I was going to say which was very simply. And Dr. Leah, as you mentioned, represent McCoy, Dr. Leah was he didn't make those statements about us sitting near each other and could be saved with us but he also said. Omicron could change the scenario. So I would just say that, you know, I agree, we should be looking at it from situation we're in the moment. And that's why I still suggest that two weeks is a good one for us to reassess. So I just want to bring something into the conversation that we haven't talked about in relationship to why it's so important for us also on the Senate side to keep our infection rates low. We don't have a lot of wiggle room. If we have people who get sick, we lose quorum so easily in committee. And so it is a different calculation for us. And so I just want to bring that here if we lose one or two people in committee, and then you've got somebody who isn't able to be there. You know, we can't vote on anything. The most important thing for us from where I sit is to make sure that the people's work continues we have hundreds of millions of dollars to get out the door to support Vermont families and we did not work that duty last year when we had to go remote. We're not going to do that this year. I know the speaker and I are completely committed to making sure that nothing is going to interrupt the important work that we do. So I just want to make that explicit and just explain why we may feel a little bit differently about how an infection could completely cripple our ability to do the work. So, thank you. Thank you. All right, so what I'm hearing around the table is two weeks remote in that time joint rules meets remotely to review with public health experts. What a trigger is for us to come back. That's safe. Okay. Can I have someone make that motion. I'm happy to make that motion. Thank you. All right. Any further discussion. Go ahead and clarity in terms of the motion you move that we meet remotely for two weeks and then but at some point, there needs to be a decision made as to whether that continues in the event that no decision is made. Then we come back is that your understanding of that motion right right. And again, just to remind people about the process so joint rules both on a recommendation for both House and Senate rules to review and to act. Because Senate rules we make a difference. Any further discussion. All right. Senator balance. Yeah. Senator Clarkson. Yes. Senator Brock. Yes. As an absent representative long. Yes. Representative McCarthy. Yes. Representative McCoy. Yes. And I am a yes. So that is 701 motion carries. Thank you. So I realized that there are other meetings upcoming that folks have to go to and I again apologize for the delay today. I think what we'll do is we will regroup to get a meeting on the books to and get some folks to testify to help us continue this conversation. And there are also some other decisions that we still need to revisit at some point that we can send out to you but today's focus was just really limited to how we return so just a point of clarification. So since this motion passed. Yeah. The next meeting of joint rules will be held remotely. That's right pending both House and Senate rules vote. Okay. All right. So with that, please stay tuned to get a meeting on the books ASAP and and we'll review some other issues that are coming up just how we address the building and whatnot. So with that, unless there's any other.