 Yo, yo, what's up everybody? This is the very first episode of the Brandman podcast. We're calling this the No Labels Necessary Podcast with me and my guy. If y'all don't know him, go ahead and introduce yourself, sir. What's up, man? You can call me, let's go with Kory. We ain't gonna call me Kory. Call me Kory on here. Hey, I was wondering what was coming weeks. I didn't think about it, bro. Nah, I wanna stick with that. I don't wanna stick with that. Okay, and y'all, you already know our faces, right? Many of y'all, some of y'all might not, welcome new folks, welcome new folks. But of course we're the two co-founders of Contra Brand Agency, Music Marketing Agency, done a lot of cool stuff, whatever, whatever. But we're doing this podcast just to loosen it up a little bit, talk about some things that we feel like we don't get the chance to talk about in the format of some of those video requests y'all sent out. But y'all start to be able to see how we think about whether it's a marketing campaign, something happening in culture, a lot of cool things. Y'all see those conversations we talk about behind the scenes. So we'll get into some topics today, but Kory, you wanna add anything to that? Yeah, it's gonna be dope. Like you said, I feel like it's gonna be a really good opportunity for them, or the audience to see how we think about stuff. Cause I feel like a lot gets lost in translation in a 10 minute YouTube video, you know what I'm saying? It's only so much that even sometimes we wouldn't even fit in there. But we know how much of, I feel like the education and music just comes from having conversations with people that know shit you don't know, you know what I'm saying? So hopefully they're able to pick up games the same way that we kinda out here picking up games. That's real, that's real. For a second I was gonna be like, I don't know man, it's like, man, do we sound non-humble, whatever the opposite of that is? It's like, yeah, y'all are blessed to be able to hear our conversations that we have behind the scenes. But that is true. Yeah. Like you literally learn. You're on the fly, bro. I feel like some of the best information I picked up was like, you know, you're like chilling with some random dude, your homie introduced you to and then he just drops some game. I know where you like, damn, bro. It's like three in the morning. And he was gonna go there, but he went there. Let's do it. So in the way they are, bro. In the way they are kinda blessed. I don't wanna say it like that, but in a way, you know? No, it really is how this work. There really is how this work. So conversations are everything in the music industry cause it's so much happening over time. We'll always talk about the principles and strategies, but like that little bit of information that you can use before the rest of the world finds out or cause you see it a little differently for the rest of the world gets it. That's where the sauce is a lot of times. And so, yeah, I guess I'm excited that we got to do this thing, man. It's gonna be fun, man. I already like where this is going. Yeah. Early reviews coming in. Y'all go ahead and drop those. We're gonna stream this live at some point when we get a flow. You know what I mean? That'll be a dope thing to do. It's like an episode 10 and up type of thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. Give us some kinks to work out. But without further ado, we're gonna give it our first topic, you know? And we'll love if y'all always, you know, go ahead and throw in new topics. By the way, we are that type of pod. We wanna talk about what the people wanna hear. At the same time, if y'all ask us like, how do I blow my fan base and general shit? Then yeah, you know, it'll be just avoided. So the topic number one, all right, what we're talking about is the fact that Russ said you can't be black ball. Do you wanna watch the video on it or anything? We get a little context or you remember? Yeah, I remember the clip. All right, so go ahead and break down like what you remember. And then we're gonna talk about it. Yeah, so if I'm remembering correctly, we probably should have played it. But if I'm remembering correctly, he was saying that you can't be black ball because like just because like the energy can't stop the tool that you kind of have to reach people, right? Yeah. Like they can't control your recording process. They can't control your access to your audience through social media. So are you saying that the only way you can truly be black ball is like industry people stopping to do things to help you. But I think he made the point that like, like regular artists can get like a Spotify connect, you know what I'm saying? Or even if they don't, they still can't stop the access. You have two people in a lot of times that forces the hand of these bigger institutions, right? We might not like you, but if you're doing, you know, X amount of thousands of streams or millions of streams in this world, it's like, well shit, we're gonna look crazy about not. You're working with you, right? So yeah, that's the general point he was making. I don't know if I'm missing anything with that, but. Now I think that's about right. Cause I know there's like the baby that's been popping up and then there's Tori Lane's, right? They both have had their issues where it might split the industry in some ways as in terms of how some of the people behind the scenes talk about it. But I'm with him in terms of, you can't be black ball in the traditional way, right? There's no stopping you from being seen by the world completely. Yo, what happened to buddy? That can't happen. I think the funny thing about it is to an artist like Tori Lane's, to an artist like the baby, them being black balled is really them just getting treated like a regular artist. The regular artist, yeah. It's like, yeah, you don't have access to those additional resources in the industry machine anymore. So yeah, it's like, okay, you get blocked out of maybe some of that right there. But it's like, yeah, now you just gotta eat like the rest of these artists eat, but y'all are in a better position cause at least you had a certain level of awareness. You probably got a certain amount of fans, some of them probably were fake, depending on, well, and that's not even talking on them specific, but like just the way some people might blow, okay, you might not have as many fans as you think you have, but even that, you know, it's what the regular artist gotta deal with. Like they gotta deal with the real numbers, make real decisions based off of that. And if they want some connects like what you said, I gotta figure out how to finesse and get somebody that like me inside Spotify. Yeah, gotta talk. I gotta reach out. I gotta reach out. I gotta reach out. I gotta reach out. Yeah, and I mean, like I think that, like that's the part of it that, I feel like it's more of like a falling from grace type of thing, right? Like if your last year and a half, two years, you know what I'm saying, your idea of a promo strategy was like, yo, I'm gonna hit the VMAs and then I'm gonna be on this late-night TV show and then I'm gonna be, you know, I'm gonna be the face of most necessary in a rap cat. Like I could understand like how it feels like then you've been pushed out of your major, your major marketing machine, right? But what's interesting about the way, I guess Russ is saying it, it feels a lot more traditional. Well, he's basically saying like, bro, those are just industry institutions. Like yeah, you can be pushed out of the industry circle, but like if your goal is really just to make money in this shit and do well, like you'll be good. If your goal is to be a part of the institution, then yeah, you got a problem. Like it's a real thing to worry about. If you just like, man, like you said, they can't like black bar you in the traditional sense of, we gonna truly cut your money off. Yup, exactly. We saw it with Taurus like, bro, as long as you can post on your Instagram and post on TikTok and you understand back in infrastructure, like you'll be all right. And it's interesting because I think that whole conversation is, or I feel like it's gonna sound wild, but I feel like we need to see more artists that get black bar that are forced to go through that process. So I think more people need to see that it's possible to do it without those type of institutions to support you. We saw it first with the six non shit, right? It was kind of first time people talking like, damn, bro, he ain't, people ain't rocking with him and but he's still doing crazy numbers, right? That opened the conversation. And then NBA Young Boy, right? I was about to say NBA. NBA, people need to be watching, buddy. Yeah, so it's like, then here comes NBA Young Boy, black ball or you know, I call it black ball, but still doing crazy numbers, right? Is black ball even a word we use for him? Like what, I still don't quite understand his situation, why he's not getting the support. Like maybe I missed that part, I wasn't paying attention at that time, but like why are people not like rocking with him? Like he should be from an industry side of things. Yeah, so some of it is, I think like earlier antics, like early NBA Young Boy was pretty, pretty wild. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, young street artists, this is what we expected. And then some of it is like politics between him and the little dark beef. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, so it's like, certain aspects, I guess dirt can be seen as the big artist. You know, it's in certain points, probably a lot more people will side with him over. And what aspects is dirt a bigger artist in NBA? I mean, I don't know. Well, I think from a mainstream look standpoint. I would say it's not even close in terms of reality. Yeah, but also that it's like, he has that look, he looks bigger to that point, but it's because then I fuck with NBA Young Boy like that. That's the crazy part about like the industry perception and how that goes because look, you know, I don't have any size in this race or whatever, you know what I mean? You know, a horse in this race. I listen to dirt shit. I listen to NBA Young Boy, but just mathematically, as far as I've seen NBA Young Boy blows him out the park, industry-wise, like obviously dirt is a far bigger phenomenon, you could probably because of that monetize and get bigger looks and outside of the industries, their brand building might have more money long term because of that, unless, you know, NBA might flip that money in the real estate, you know, the real estate don't care who you are. You know what I'm saying? So catalog two, especially we know the numbers, people are getting off of the buyouts, right? These multiples. So I don't know, man, it's interesting one to see him. So if you look at him, you look at Russ, right? These are people who are big and doing it without in a current day climate, but like you said, you're like, all right, part of this black ball is, okay, I might not be able to pull up to the MTV Awards and as part of my rollout, I might not be able to pull up to the Jimmy Fallon show, Ellen and all these things that were a part of my rollout. But guess what? You can pull up to Logan Paul, you know what I'm saying? You can pull up to, what's the case I or whatever his name is, like any of these YouTubers and people like that, a lot of people, y'all need to start using a PR strategy where y'all just like, I mean, no, you can add that on, but if you don't have those big traditional shows which don't have any impact anyway, like most of them. I mean, like, it's not even getting. It's content genre right now. Exactly, well, let's not get into the TV show that, never mind, it was a brilliant app on the episode. I was gonna talk about the TV show that one of the clients were supposed to be on and the show was trash or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, they were on it, but the ratings were trash. But yeah, so it was like, yeah, like Tory Lanez, it's still Tory Lanez. The baby is still the baby. Now, there gonna be some communities that don't rock with him because of some of the things they said, but there's plenty of people who are still gonna give him that interview. And we know Vlad's gonna interview everybody. He don't give a fuck, what kind of, he wants those views. So like to pull up the media run is there, man. There's so many third party publications and the funny part about it is, that would be like a nice indie underground wave to follow traditionally. But the difference between doing that back in the day versus doing it today is these indie underground like pages, channels, influencers, they actually have more impact than the traditional. So it's like a weird mindset that people are still going for. And they have the chance of, like, I mean, it's like you post things on the internet. Everybody has the chance to go viral, you know what I'm saying? Right. Every day you post, there's a little shot in the dark at it, right? And so it's like, it could be like a smaller page could give you just as much, if not more of an impact than the bigger accounts. They may be able to get you like bigger consistently, just because they have the audience, but like I've seen bigger moments come from like a page that'd be small, bro. Like 20,000 followers and like a random artist post pop off and get 20 million views on it. Like, damn, that's crazy. Could it have happened from the shade room? Maybe, but it didn't. It happened over here, right? It would have cost it more. Yeah, it would have cost more, exactly. The bang for buck 100% wouldn't have happened the same. It's like, damn, I just paid, I don't want to say I don't know, but it was like, I just paid 40 bucks for a $20 million post or some shit because it was just the world looked up. But I think that that's the part that's not like seen enough. You know what I'm saying? I don't think people still think of these Instagram accounts as like media entities, right? Like when you think media is it, you think radio stations, you know what I'm saying? Big publications. I don't think they're thinking about like, oh shit, I could just go live or like at wrap and do an interview. And like the thing about like these people and like you mentioned the influencers versus the industry stuff is like, bro, the influencers don't care, alone you got the money to pay for it. And they like you, right? Of course they gotta see the audience connection. They gotta like you, but it's money-based. So it's like, they don't give a fuck about none of the industry stuff. It's just like, yo, does my audience know you or like you or do I like you and can you afford this invoice? If you can, if those things are in order, like you all right. You know what I'm saying? You're gonna be good. I think like that's why I say I feel like a lot more artists is fucked up with the sound needs to get black ball because it's the only way. I think artists underneath them are gonna pay attention to watch a bigger artist have to go through that and figure that stuff out. Like we all had to watch, you know, like Tory figure out and like it's a six, nine, eight, nine when all these different people figured out like they have people paying attention to them. Like the indie artists is coming up that's doing that. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like there are a lot of indie artists who do do that and they're like, they're smart for doing it but they're not gonna be popping enough for another couple of years for like the industry a whole penitentiary. It's gonna take these like massive stars falling off and then we all watching them try to figure out and them going through the same processes that are supposed to go like, or for everybody else to go like, damn, I'm like, I could just do that. You know what I'm saying? I could. You could get an interview with. You gotta be creative. Yeah. You could get an interview with the music page before you could probably get on Jimmy Fallon. You know what I'm saying? Easy. Easy. The crazy thing is like the reason it has so much more impact is one, some of them are just underutilized period, right? So there's some age, I'm just gonna say rap cause you say rap, right? Yeah. Like people haven't exploited it to that extent yet. Maybe they're trying to keep people from doing. I don't know. Maybe people have tried. But because of that, people are gonna look at it as a new thing, right? But that might run out, right? After a certain period of time. But what's not gonna run out is these influencers who have a legitimate perspective and they truly A&R who they let on their platform. Yeah. Right? And that's what we love about TikTok so much. I was like, man, I was so surprised. Like you be like, ah, nah, I can't put that song on my platform. I can't do a dance to that song cause my people aren't gonna wanna listen to it. They gonna know it's trash. I don't like it. It's not gonna get any blue views. The algorithm's not gonna like it. Like it's all bad. So I'm just not gonna take the money. But because of that, people have so much more respect and value because it's actually like I gave it the okay. Anthony Fantano talks about something he gives to the PNP people respected and think it's him. You know what I mean? Sean C. talks about something and he gives his perspective. They respected and feel like it's coming from him cause it's not attached to the industry and all that stuff. But someone gets on the MTV Awards, BT Awards or whoever. Grammys, I don't know how this person got up in here. I guess they're important cause they're there but I don't know who the fuck that is. Like you just know they know somebody. We know they know somebody. Right? That's how we think now where we are. But from a fan, you just like, who's that? Yeah, who's that? You know what I mean? And you might kind of give it some credence like maybe they're important and maybe they're good cause they're there. You might, like especially back in the day it definitely would be a little bit more for that. But now it's just more like who is that? You go on your life with so much content you don't remember the person versus if my favorite YouTuber, my favorite TikToker or whoever says this shit goes and you're like, who is that? And I'm gonna check it out cause I follow this person cause I almost look at them, you know, like a friend, right? We have something in common, right? So if they like it, I might listen to it. If you recommend it, I'm way more likely to check out the shit than I don't know somebody. I don't know how you rock, buddy. You know, I've never heard you play any music. I don't know how you dress. You know what I mean? Like you eat plain food without season. I don't, we might not be at across the same, you know? So like that's the value of, I don't know, many of these underground influences. We've been talking about that part for years though. So, you know, I think we've obviously implemented with artists and we've seen some artists do it well, but I'm just so surprised that the tipping point has not come where, you know what I'm saying? Like you see people going hard on that shit. I mean, I can have my theories. I think a part of it is like every time of one gets really big, the industry does come and snatch them up, you know what I'm saying? I mean, we've seen that with like, to me, the best recent example is like Ziaz. You know what I'm saying? Like Ziaz is gonna be crazy on YouTube. Oh yeah. The industry came and snatched them up. But even like, what was that one TikTok guy we worked with for like one campaign and then he was working at like a label. I don't remember. I can't think his name, brother. See? Yeah. We're about to hold that one second, man. Cause I want to talk about something that we're, that somebody who is doing it pretty damn good. Cause you brought it up the other day. We kind of both talked about it, but you had been watching even more. What's the artist's name? Is it Ice something? What's the girl who got like the throwy hair? She's someone who's doing the PR strategy, right? Oh, Ice Spice. Ice Spice, like break that shit down, man. So the strategy of what she's doing? Just the game you peep and how you see it in our like aria. They're doing, they're one, they're doing this intentionally. And then like, why do you feel like they're doing it right? Cause you've seen more on it than I have. Yeah. All right. So I got to paint the picture first thing. So, so the, so we, we have the, the influencer strategy that we do, that we call IGPR, right? I feel like we made it up. So I feel like we have to explain it. But basically what IGPR is, is it borrows from elements of like traditional PR campaign. It's like, if you were to hire a publicist, publicist would be like, hey, like, you know, who do you think your music appeals to? Or like, what do you like? Right. You might be like, well, I like gardening. And I think my music appeals to people who I have mental health issues. That publicist is going to get you on, you know, the cover of a gardening magazine. They're going to get you a podcast interview on, you know, maybe like a mental health podcast, right? They're going to make you do a pop up performance at a local plant shop in your city. They're going to do things that put you in front of those specific people that like those specific things, right? So now we take that to social media. We ask clients the same question. Like, yo, what do you stand for? Who are the people you think you appeal to, right? What do you think those people care about? And so if the client is like, yo, I like gardening or my fans are into gardening. And, you know, I want to speak to the people that talk about mental health. We might go get, you know, their song made into a clip behind like a, I don't know, like a video about the best compost to buy or something, right? And we put the song in the background of the video and we blast it out to, right, 100 plant pages, right? And then we take a clip of them talking about them going through that mental health stuff and we might put it on like a music blog page, right? So we're taking that same strategy that publicists were taking in the press world, applying it to content and social media. So the thing that I noticed recently that we started talking about was like how Yeet was implementing that. Oh yeah, that, yeah. Yeah. And so I was talking about how like Yeet, as I, as he got closer to his album, I started noticing that like our generation music, which is a really popular music page on Instagram, was posting a lot more about him. So it's like they were posting videos like, you know, here's Yeet in the studio with a random artist. And like here's, you know, Yeet's XYZ song just hit 10 million streams. Oh, look at what this Yeet fan did, right? Like all they were covering like Yeet's life a lot, leading up to the album rollout. And I was like, yo, like, I think this is a marketing strategy. He's implementing a version of what we do for IGPR. He's just hitting a more broad base. Now fast forward to the Ice Spice thing. And I mean, so I'll say this anyway, I already personally have my suspicions about Ice Spice because the very first time I ever saw her was a post on DJ Academics. And DJ Academics has been very vocal about the fact that one, he charges a lot of money for a post on his page. And the two he doesn't typically like to work with underground art. So out of the get it's like, I would, I believe him. You know what I'm saying? I believe he charges a lot. I was like, she got the money for it. And the video debut on Worldstar, which is another, you know, there's two big bags right there. But what solidified it to me was that was this clip. I think it was like, it was a meme about a line from one of her songs. She has a song when she's like, we both from the Bronx. So I know that you dirty or something like that, right? And so like the internet was like meme in that clip. And I remember scrolling on my timeline, seeing the first music page that posted about it and looking at it, laughing at it. And I scroll and I see like a second page. I'm like, damn, that's crazy. Like they posted the same thing. And then like something in me is just like, nah, you know better than this, bro. Like, go look into it, you know what I'm saying? Go check it out. So I just went to like maybe like four or five of the pages like we use, we know, you know, do stuff. And like they all have posted around like the same clip, maybe within like 25 to 35 minutes of each other. I'm like, oh, this is a marketing campaign. Like somebody ran this around her. And they're killing it by the way. They're killing it. Yeah. So they've been doing the same strategy. If you look at like how they've been keeping her name out there, it's all a bunch of personality clips that are getting seeded out and blasted onto different music pages. I was seeing one right before I came here and there was like a video of her like walking in heels and like falling down or something. And like I saw it on like three or four music pages, you know what I'm saying? Like today. And so like they're consistently doing it with her. Like, here's a lifestyle thing that happens around her. Let's get these 20 something pages to blast out. Here's a big music band that happened around her. Like they're doing the exact same strategy, the IGPR strategy. And they're doing it really well. And this is how, this is how you know that shit is going crazy. Like, bro, it's only been like a month and a half that she's been. Right. It feels like, like a much longer time. I was thinking of the other house at the end of the video just came out like a month ago. The song started going viral like five, six weeks ago. You know what I'm saying? It feels like such a long time. It's only been like a month, month and a half. But like they keep her out there so much doing the IGPR. So just blasting her personality out there. Like any little thing that happens in her life, bro, they hit, they hit the, so the whole network with it. Right. And that shit works. We see it work. Like one congratulations Ice Spice's team, whoever actually doing that thing. Right. Cause one, people always, people look at those campaigns and they have such a short-sighted way of understanding the results that can come from it. Yeah. I always see like, oh, what streams am I getting? Or how many followers am I getting from that? One. All right, cool. You ride in the back of a song that's moving. But there's processes, right? There's marketing a song. There's blowing the song up. Then it's also blowing the artists up as a whole. And what doing that, what they're doing, this is a part of how you actually break the artists in people's minds, right? That's how I look at it. Like you break that barrier. I'm in your mind. You know who the fuck I am, right? You know one of my songs, at least one of my songs, of course, a lot of people know more than one of her songs. But even if it was just one song, you know that one song and you know who the fuck this artist is. You got some sense of their personality, all that hating on her. Cool, that's a part of it, right? Like I can lean into that. So I can build some conversation on it. And we can flip the hate into more attention and get some more conversation going. That's what it looks like. But it's going hard in a short period of time because it's not gonna be remembered and potent enough if you don't do it in a short enough period of time. So you gotta make sure you double down that $50,000 over five months is not $50,000 over a month and a half, a week, right? Depending on how you go. Now I'm not saying everybody's in a position where even if you have it, you should be spending it in a short period of time. It depends on what leg of the campaign is, all that stuff. But like, they're killing her shit, bruh. They're killing her shit. And the other thing I just thought about this in the moment, but it's crazy is like she's doing what a lot of our artists have a problem doing which is putting the face to the viral song. Exactly. Like, you know, that's probably the biggest issue a lot. Especially because, I mean, she went viral through TikTok, like everybody else, right? Yeah. That's the biggest issue those artists have. You know, the song got 100 million streams on it. You don't know who the fuck made that song, right? You couldn't put a, you could, they could walk past you and you wouldn't know, but it's like, you know who made this song because they made sure to just keep her out there. And I made sure like we were seeing her face, bruh. Like I see her face at least like nine times a week, like easy, at least. Yeah, she just be popping up. And then she has that fortune. A lot of times it helps when you're in that first leg of your breaking period to have a unique look. Yeah. Now that just might be the way she dresses and shit. You know what I mean? But like just a little afro, you know what I mean? The complexion of her skin, it's a little slightly different look than what people are used to seeing. Just like at the beginning, when weekend had that hair, you know what I'm saying? That was, that made a huge impact. He was also smart by like breaking that mode. And if he didn't want to like commit to that forever, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And doing it in the timing he did, but I don't know if it would have hit just the same if he had like a little cut Caesar, you know what I'm saying? Breaking out and everything. So it's interesting to watch these campaigns. But yeah, congrats to y'all. We can find a move to another topic, but congrats to Ice Bites Team because we've been watching that. We talk about that one. Oh, good, but you did mention something, bro. So when you brought up Zeus, it's crazy how labels sign influencers these days to me. Like it's so interesting, but you don't hear any conversations heavy about it. Like the influencers that are being signed by labels, I think Zeus, people were actually pretty aware of, there was a decent awareness, but like so many of these smaller ones, curators, influencers, hey man, they get a, from what I've heard, typically it's not like a, doesn't seem like a massive life changing amount for a lot of them, but it's more like, hey man, you know, we'll keep throwing you some bread if you make sure you respond to the emails in a timely manner, you know what I'm saying? Get your passes to all the festival. We'll make your lifestyle look good, you know what I'm saying? Exactly, exactly. I wanna know what the signings look like, right? Like if you had to sign in an influencer, so like I wouldn't take a label deal. I'm in an exclusive deal if I was in an influencer, right? Unless they were going crazy. And the ones that I know who are signed, they don't have an exclusive deal. But if you were a label, how would you approach it? If I was a label, how would I approach an influencer? If I had to like just have it my way, and I'm gonna say, what kind of influencers would you be going towards, going at, and what kind of deals would you try to break, break with them on? I think, so if I was the label, I would go after music reviewers, like people who just review music, any type of reaction channel or review-ish type of channel. Right. I would go after the music like blog promo pages, like so the Instagram accounts, the TikTok accounts. And I would go after meme accounts that have a music-focused audience. So, like there's one page I follow called Grand Wizard Chatmigas, built off the Visa Academic brand. It's a meme page, but he has a music-focused audience. So like pages like that, or that is another one called like Tyrone. Like Tyrone has a, which I actually think might be owned by a really big entity. But if I was a label, I would go after those. Yeah. And so, I think there'd be a couple of different ways I would try to do it. The pages, meme accounts, music pages, I would probably try to like outright buy. And maybe just offer the creator like a really large like buyout deal, you know. Look at how much money you're making, you're okay, you generating 150K, you know what I'm saying? I'll give you... Not even most of them. Yeah, but let's just, let the big ones, yeah, right. Probably try to bottom out right just so I could hire somebody internally. Or bottom out right and then give them a job. Like, yo, I'll give you, I don't know, 400K for the page and then hire you on the 85K of your salary or something to keep running the page, right? But now we gonna just keep it exclusive to our artists. Well, maybe not even that, maybe even be like, yo, you can still take whatever promo money you get from it. But like whenever we got some shit that need to go up on this page, that shit going up on this page. It's gas, we need to press the gas at full blown. This is coverage daily news for this artist, that type of vibe. Yeah, them, I think the ones that have a brand, like their face attached to it, that one's, that's a harder one. Cause I think hiring them as almost like an employee, like a similar bi-model and in terms of employee would probably be what makes the most sense as a label, but they're not going for that, you know what I'm saying? Like a smart one wouldn't go for that. So I would probably just try to work out some type of a yearly lump sum, but either I get a certain amount of artists I can push you that you have to do, or it affords me an extremely discounted promo rate. So if you're typically charging 10K per video, I want it for 800, you know what I'm saying? And in order to get it for 800, I'm willing to give you, I don't know, 100K up front right now, you know what I'm saying? Or something, cause if I know how to, yo, I might have, you know what I'm saying? Like I might push this one RSU shit eight times a year alone, you know what I'm saying? That's gonna save me 80 bands. Yeah, in that scenario like 80 bands plus, you know what I'm saying? Like in the long run, so I'm willing to do that right now if I know I got at least five or six like that. And I think a lot of influencers would do that. Like the label was like, yo, I'm gonna pay you to still pay you. It just needs to be a discounted rate. Most of them are gonna go for that. They're gonna go for that. Cause I don't think they will be thinking of it the same way, but I don't know, I've never, I've never thought about it. I would love to talk to like one of the ones that have been in it and see like, cause I feel like most of them just get hired, bro. They get like, well, I almost like work hard. For a whole lot of them, we get hired. I think I like to buy out deal, like for the meme pages, because the meme pages without having a face, you can damn near throw anybody up there. I like keeping the same person in a role because they're already, you know, it's the cost of training and all that stuff. You don't have to deal with any of that stuff. Just let them, let them rock, right? Keep the numbers up. And the complexity definitely comes for the individual influencer. Cause the individual influencer has more of a brand up hold, right? You can't just throw somebody and replace them. We've seen people do that. And it's a hard game, man. And at bringing and introducing other people, you can't just dip, dip off. But I think the lump sum deal is nice. I think it will be, I'll probably focus on orchestrated campaigns and somebody that makes sense for their brand. So you have to be a lot more select. That's another reason why you can't just buy them all out. All right. You'd have to say, all right, this person is great for this audience. And maybe I'm focused heavy on R&B. Or maybe I'm focused heavy on rock. You know, if I'm going to somebody who's general, but impactful, let's insert like Anthony Fantano, which he probably would never do that. But like, okay, those people will be one off. I would never try to buy them out cause it's just too, it's too much of a variety. But somebody who's like in my bag. So if I'm an indie label, especially I try to come up with some kind of relationship where you can curate. Cause major labels are, I haven't seen them be good at truly, maybe they don't have the time to or putting enough resources to really bring their attention to using a lot of those influences right on the long term. But any labels, like they're real, they're creative. They get it. They get the shit, you know what I mean? Man, I think to a lot of the, at least the situations I've seen in the past that I was pretty sure was the influencer signed to a major label is they go from being, like you said, like a trusted voice of the E streets, if you will. Right. When it comes to music. I know this guy put me onto a bunch of random stuff. And then out of nowhere, they just go to like only talking about bigger artists, right? Or only covering bigger artists. And it's like, I don't think the labels realize when they make them make that change that they're killing off the brand trust of the influencers. So over time, the value of the influencers, it like, it starts to decrease from the moment they start doing that. And then it's like a lot of, especially like music curators, a lot of them maintain that reputation by being able to say like, they were the first ones to talk about somebody. Right. So now if it's like, I mean, unless you was a label, like, you know, of course, I guess if you have your smaller artists, you can still help them kind of maintain that image, that look, but it's like, they don't have the ability to like naturally go out. They're like, there's a, there's a artist that pops every couple of months. They're like, every music curator knows, like, if I don't make a post talking about this person, I'm gonna look out the loop. So I feel like when influencers get locked into these label deals or where they can't talk about those artists, they look like they're out the loop. Exactly. Yeah. So then their audience starts to lose trust in them. And then it basically making how effective they are, like less, you know? And so I think that's what allows them to, sir. Speaking of, I think you, you touched on something why like TikTok curators have brought so much value to underground marketing again. Cause one, we know the transferability from TikTok is stupid when like somebody just, like when something happens on TikTok, it can move. So, and their curator impact is better than any of the other curative impacts I've seen, you know, as like half decade. But because of that personal out the loop aspect of things, you can truly activate a campaign and get people to talk about you without ever having to, well, I don't even say ever having to pay, but paying cheaper pages that they're following, right? Just to get discovered by them. And then because they got the FOMO, I gotta be the first to introduce them. Then you use that human behavior for them to go ahead and start putting you out into this, you know, how about to say man of sphere, the artist sphere, the industry sphere, all that stuff right there. Because like once you get tap into human behavior wins, that's why the open verse challenges were so big for a second, right? Cause now it's playing into an artist's ego for me to get seen. So I'm a flex, right? And then I see other people are actually getting attention from this. So that's even more important for me to get in, oh, dang, and I actually might end up on a track. All right, that becomes even another game. So it, and at the end of the day, you get all this game from people putting out your own song. So it was just a perfect human behavior experiment. And whenever, so like when you look at these curators, like, cause I feel like it hasn't been legitimate curators in the last five years. I haven't been that many of them. It was like a deficit, but now with TikTok, it's a lot of like legitimate, you know, upcoming curators that people truly look at for their opinion on music. You know what I mean? It was almost, cause we know there was some pages on Instagram that curated music, but it almost wasn't cool for a while. Yeah, I mean, I think the Instagram community, theirs is a lot more like bloggish. Like you can tell it bars on like traditional. Right. TikTok feels more, it's like it feels like a million. I'm trying to think of a person like a million, like I guess like DJ academics, right? It's just like all these small personalities with faces attached to where it's like, yeah, Instagram is more like, oh, here's a, here's a big brand that is maintained. It's like, like no different in like a complex, right? Or pigeons and planes or something. So I think, I think that's the difference in it. Like TikToks feel a lot more personal. You can't really, what I mean, but even TikTok has like big, well it's starting to build a culture of like big music repost pages like Instagram. Like it's still in its infantile like- Yeah, it's hard to be successful though. Yeah, it's very hard because it's like, I think I maybe know of like 405 that do it really well, that didn't already have a brand, but like their own TikTok building a brand as a faceless music curator. Very hard thing to do on TikTok, very bad. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying, real cures are coming back because you are not a curator if you're a brand. There's no way a brand can legitimately be a real curator at scale, most of them at least, right? Because you know, it becomes more commercial and people don't really know who they're trusting and it just doesn't work. Colors has probably been the best I've seen like in the modern era in space. I was like colors and probably pigeons and planes. Pigeons and planes, I don't consider them modern anymore. Oh man, yeah. They're current, you know what I mean? They're still doing their thing and they're some of the best, you know what I mean? But yeah, like they've been around in the game for a minute, you know what I mean? Colors has too, but like colors is still like catching a new wave because of the video format and all that stuff, planes isn't that it's traditional, right? But I'm saying like, when you go back, the DJs used to be curators. It was a person and you know, if I go listen to this dude, this dude sets gonna go a certain way. This guy has a certain type of taste, you know what I mean? That actually means something versus, and when you listen to these individual curators on TikTok, it's another person. Again, I already know what he vibes with, the type of stuff he hates, especially the ones who do commentary, right? Like what they don't like and just like a news story where you might watch four or five different channels or four or five people talk about the same issue. Like I'm willing to now go see what that curator thinks. It's like, I know this guy thinks that way, but I wonder if he's rocking with the new Kendra Lamar track or the new Yeet shit or whatever it is, you know? Yeah. So like there's, we're in a space, like there's like this renaissance when it comes to legitimate curators and it's gonna make it interesting. I really feel like the kids, these days are going through, this is the most respectable music period since the 90s. But I feel like the 2000 and 14, 15, all has been the most respectable, like music has been going up like 2000s, which is a whole another, I know I'm diverting, 2000s were trash, bro. A lot of great music that I love myself. So I was gonna say like, you may find the music standpoint or like what's going on around the music? Like which part of it is better in or trash? So it's more about holistic, right? So there were a lot of great people, right? Yeah. The 2000s, a lot of great music that I can go on, you know, hours and hours, there's a set. But the problem is it was like, it was a, it wasn't as deep. It wasn't as many people, you know? You look down on the ventures, like is it your starting five or is the whole team rolling? You know, in the 90s, there were like a lot of quote unquote throwaways that were still like, they were killers, right? You had all these different groups, right? You had all these different solo artists, right? R&B was killing it. Hip-hop was killing it. All those sounds were outside and getting a lot of respect. Gospel was doing its thing. Country, a lot of them actually saw their height in that period. And that's all mentioned, the money, the injection of money like was aligned completely with the success that you saw. It's like, hey man, we making so much money. Let's keep throwing some more money. Let's put a million dollars in a music video. So we have some more creative space. I feel it, I feel it. And when you track it, a part of that might be because, hey man, that money was, it dipped into 2000s, right? Like early 2000s, Napsters, all that shit. All right, things start going down. We can only maybe invest unless you're only the top. You gotta be at the top, right? We're figuring it out. And then you have this period, accessibility increases, right? Because of technology, distribution awareness increases because of social media, right? And then, I don't know why there weren't like as many bands and things like that, but like you start seeing more of those come out. Then the Kendrick Lamar and Drake, I felt like Kendrick, Drake, Drake actually, almost individually, Drake, Nikki, like they were almost like the beginning of the next golden era or close to gold. Like there was a drought. Hey, when Wayne was saying I'm the best in the world, there was nobody saying, no, you not. What other area, like in the 90s, they'll be like, nah, bro, I'm the best. I'm the best, I'm the best. Like there wasn't even nobody trying to challenge them. You know, that's how like how, you know, it was some monsters there, but it was really top heavy in that period. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, I think I can agree with that. Cause I also think that era was the start of like, there were like the grandfathers of the internet era today. Exactly. Like most of those artists, I think I found like Kendrick Lamar and I know I found with J. Cole off of YouTube. You know what I remember? I can remember the day I found J. Cole's music off of YouTube. Exactly where I found both of them. So it's like they would have started kind of like, whether I don't know if they think of it like that, but they would have started like the way we view shit today. You know what I'm saying? Yup. They trained us. And I also think too, like, because there's so much that gets pushed out at you, like even though people like to make the argument that there's a lot, you, there's a lot of less quality music today is because there are more people putting stuff out. I will argue there's also more quality music out there because of the same thing, right? So it's like back then you might know like four, five R&B artists at one point in now, but you know, like 80, you know what I'm saying? At least, you know, really more than that. If you start going down the line a little bit, but it was really more than that, you know? Yup. Which I guess that's pros and cons of that. You know, that's probably some steep cons, but I feel like the pros are the cons of my opinion. It depends on what side of the table you are. Yeah, exactly. If you're the artist, it probably sucks. As a consumer, it's great. It's an increase of middle class for the artist and decrease in the top. Hey, I'm killing it. The numbers, I'm, hey, my money is stupid. And I'm looking down on the rest of you guys. It's like, nah, we all about right here. Yeah, we all about right here. Trying to figure out how somebody can get to the top of this thing. Yeah, that's where it's at, but that's exactly, that's why I feel like it's a beautiful space, right? And there's a lot of things happening around it, like all the curators, the shows, like there's so much energy around it. So much variety where there's been variety before, but people are figuring it out, right? And people are figuring out how to make the money and get the money from it. So now we can put more energy into it because at the end of the day people gotta eat, right? Once you know where that money comes from, okay, I can figure out how I can spend a little more time over here. So like we're entering a great space for music financially and obviously on the most important part, creatively, artistically, not the existence of the creativity because I know it always has been there, but the awareness of it and being able to package it like it's supposed to be, that's all. You know, I know because when we talk about errors, people are like, eh, I feel like objectively, I go deeper in another day, but I feel like objectively. Yeah, I get it, bro. There's some arguments. I wouldn't trade. I don't think I would trade being in any other music period for the one that we're in now. I think one, it probably wasn't much hard to be like a marketer in the 90s, 2000s because it would have been purely relationship-based. Now you can hop in the game with no relationships. You truly don't know anybody who can still start building and stuff up. But then also, I think from an artist standpoint. Hold on, I'll say, we would not exist as we are today. We would have to work at a label, like outright from the gate down here. Yeah, unless we was like, I don't know, have built up some crazy local street teams. Because I've heard stories like that. People building like local street teams or parties or something, those people would get brought to. Be on some Uncle Luke-type shoes and people like that. That's a very real rock. But for the most part, nah. Yeah, I don't know if I could have did that wrong. Because you would have to be a extroverted personality probably, club promoter, one of those type of hustling individuals. And yeah, that's a special type of person, bro. That's a special type of person, yeah. And that goes to the artist point. I always make this one point with artist. Anytime an artist talks about making content, how much it sucks. I'm always like, bro, 10, 15 years ago, you would have had to go stand on the corner somewhere, slinging CDs, harassing random people on the street to try to get them to stop and talk to you. It's like today, you could do that, but from the comfort of your own home. I don't know about every artist, bro. Maybe some of them build different, but I would much rather make a TikTok and stand on the corner for five, six hours a day. But it's like, I don't know, man. I can make my TikToks, throw them up, and then shit, if I wanted to go take a nap, bro, why don't sleep still, building people, like bringing people in, bro. Exactly, the content still moving. Bro, it is crazy to think about sometimes, like no, they were actually doing that. Like getting up, going down to the local print, shop, bodega shit, yeah, bro. Getting 300 CDs, pressure, carrying them, shit, whatever, I would not have done that. Like, I'm not done about art, you know what I'm saying, but like, I tell most artists that don't make content, like, bro, you would not have survived in that era, because you won't even make five TikToks from the comfort of your air-conditioned room, bro. Like, you think you, you want me to believe you would have stood on the corner for five, six hours a day, but no, you wouldn't have. You would have been back then talking like, man, I gotta go stand on the corner for five hours, bro, I ain't about to do it. This is the exact same shit, bro. Just like, just different era. Every era has some things that artists would not like to do, but they gotta do it. Yeah, and then the ones that do it, they make it, or at least get closer to making it. Right, so pick your problems, that's what it comes out to. Yeah. Do you want to be slanging CDs, or do you want to be making YouTube videos, Tim Top videos? And even if you're going to slanging CDs, because we have one client that still does like the street thing, but I'm like, bro, like do that with the internet stuff. If you're going to do it, at least have the internet stuff on top. So don't like completely disregard it because you feel like this is the old school way. Because it's like, bro, it makes sure people see it. Yeah, exactly. You can do just that, but make sure people actually see that you're doing it, and that's going to give you extra points. What I've never seen any of them do, and I would love to see is, I would love to get an ad that says like, hey, I'm handing out CDs on the corner of Euclid and, what's where I going? What's the little five on there? Euclid and whatever, bro. I don't know. I'm going to be handing out CDs on the corner of Euclid and whatever from two to five, come check me out. This is a short Instagram ad and maybe pops up, you know what I'm saying? I'm about to timeline 20 minutes before they start doing it. So I've never seen that before, but they'll be following me. I'm like, damn man, I'm over here about a little five points. Let me go, let me go see what's up. You know what? That makes me think of something, right? Because the biggest opportunities in marketing aren't necessarily my in the action of the thing you do while you're doing it. It's how you flip the shit, right? Which is like, that actually is a perfect segue into this clip we're going to talk about. But if I market this, you know what, I'm actually going to weigh out. We're going to talk about this clip. So M tripling, you remember him? Yeah. All right, so maybe I could play it during, make that pop up on the podcast. I feel like his music's not at a point where we'll get a strike or anything yet, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, we'll just have, we'll throw it up in posts, right? Throw it up to the side and a tweet or something. But basically this guy M tripling, he performed that rollin' loud. And there were only 13 people. And it probably was a little bit more, a little bit less, but he put out a tweet and said, perform that rollin' loud for 13 people. Gotta start somewhere, put the prayer hands up. Now, the beauty of this is he tweeted this. He could have just like felt all sad about himself. Dang, do I want to do this in life? All that good stuff. You know how people get down in the dumps. Instead he tweeted it and he just said he was thankful. You know what I mean? Prayer hands up, gotta start somewhere. That he immediately went viral where most people have been like, dang, that's a L. He got made fun of by some people, but he also had a hell of people be like, yo, that's dope, keep going, keep trying, da, da, da, da, all that good stuff. I'm gonna go do some comments. Well, of course you know people start spamming it by now. Let's see, where is he at? 11,000 retweets, 1,700 plus quote tweets, right? He went viral, flipping a moment that was a L into a positive just by putting it out there, making people aware. And then on TikTok, he basically talked about his viral tweet, right? So he said, all right, one, I only performed for 13 people on Twitter, right? And because of that, he put that out there, that went viral. Then he did a TikTok, yo, that moment became a viral moment and now people know me, right? So then he highlighted the fact that he was going viral in a different tweet. I mean, in a TikTok, that shit did a million plus views. Now a lot of people know who we are. Now we're talking about him right now. And it's all because he took a L and flipped it, period. So if you put a billboard out in the city, it's only gonna be seen by so many people. But if you take a picture of that billboard, you put it on the internet, now more people gonna see it, right? You know what I mean? So you do the marketing campaign that you're talking about, oh, I put up an ad, yo, in 20 minutes, come on out here. I'm gonna be on the corner of Euclid and X Street. I'm gonna be handing out CDs, maybe doing a little performance. Who knows how many people come out? Five people come out. But I get that footage and I make it look lit like we had a good time together while we're out there. And then I captured and tell the story about how I ran an ad and people came out and made that shit look good. Now people are talking about, yo, he did a unique crazy campaign. Who cares about how successful the campaign was itself a lot of times. It's just the story that you did something different. So the whole game, especially as an artist, you gotta be resourceful and just keep flipping and flipping. That's what the marketing and branding stuff is about. Those stories are like badges where people like now know you, you are stamping their mind. And they go, I remember what he did this and it popped them off. That's kinda how you gotta look at it. Yeah, yeah. And two, I think it's like a marriage of those two worlds, right? Cause I always think there's a battle between like digital marketing and then, I don't know the word, but we're just gonna call it real world, real world. Physical world is what Mark Zuckerberg. He doesn't like real world because of the whole metaverse. Like, no, it's the real world too. The physical world. So digital marketing versus like physical world marketing. And it's like, I think that there are too many artists who fight for the physical. They're in denial. It's like, it's internet age, but I always tell people, artist bro, you all think about user behavior and what we prefer. And like, as people, we prefer the internet. So we're not going back over here just because you was the artist feels like just the way it is. It is what it is, right? And as those who fight for the digital and the argument against digital is that like, you can just become seen as like just an internet figure, right? Like people only kind of know you as the guy, the TikTok rapper, the YouTube rapper, right? Cause they don't see you outside. I feel like the marriage of the best world is marrying both of those two things. Like when you can have a really effective ad funnel and you can go put together a pop up, you know what I'm saying? Street performance on the street in your hometown, right? Like you say, like the perception of it is gonna be crazy cause people are gonna be like, oh, he's doing some shit that ain't ever been done. When it's like, not really. You just combining things that people don't see get done in combination a lot, you know? It's the story. Yeah, it's the story. And then it's like, if you really as an artist feel like that you're gonna be here for a while, at least what I tell you, not even if you think you're gonna be here. If you don't plan on like quitting anytime soon, like quitting anytime, I'll say in the next one to three years of you having the idea. The idea is gonna work out cause like you said, it becomes a part of the narrative, right? And as the narrative gets strong, as you do things, the narrative gets stronger because there's more time to add in things into the narrative, right? Your narrative before might be like, no day one of it is like, damn, I did this thing and I had five people show up on the street for me. And that's the narrative you run with in the moment. It's gonna be inspirational to somebody. Somebody's gonna be like, that's crazy. But you did all this to the five people and blah, blah, blah, right? Year and a half from now, you do that shit again and you get, I don't know, 500 people. Now the narrative is like, man, it's crazy. Just last year, all I had was five people here. You know what I'm saying? Now I got 500, thank you guys, blah, blah, blah. Now you look different, right? Three years go by and you do your first headlining show, you know what I'm saying? And your town, none of that is like, man, it's crazy, man. Just three years ago, I performed on the corner for these five people. She even just a year ago, I came out here and there was only 500 people coming to see me. But today I'm looking at 3,000 smiling faces. It's like the narrative is crazy at that point, but it's a narrative you've been building for the last couple of years. You know what I'm saying? Think about it, we fall in love with the story. That's all it is. Yeah, it's just a story, bro. And it takes a long time to put together a good story. Think about this, bro. Will LaRussell be doing what he's doing now if he performed those performances in his backyard, the whole bunch of dope clips? We know he got some lyrics, right? So it's just performances, him doing his lyrics, right? And then he had some radio performances as well. So he has those backyard performances. He had the radio performances, dope freestyles. But what would happen if you didn't know that that was his backyard? Like how I feel about personally? Or just like, what do I think? Would you even know about him? Or would he be as poppin' as he is? I don't think the story would be as stronger, as strong, not as stronger. Because I think his brand seems to be leaning towards like the humble DIY guy. You know what I'm saying? My humble guy, I'm doing this shit no differently than like you, you, you could be. He gives off humble to you? Yeah. He don't give off humble to me. He gives off like. He gives off on flex and I'm killing this shit DIY guy. I think now, maybe in like. Like Russ, like, you know what I mean? Yeah. I think like maybe in the last like two, three weeks, but even in that, like it feels, I get why artists of that caliber feel like they have to move that way. Because it's still not as respected of a thing. Right, right. You know what? There's a, that's a different type of humble. So there's two things, right? One, I always feel like the people who put in the work. Hey man, you humble just put in the work. Cause the people who don't put in the work are the ones who have had too big to think they don't got to do it, right? Then two, I don't know if it's humble or overcoming or not or being so about it. To me, the Russell seems about his business that you don't care about all this fake perception and stuff that a lot of artists won't do stuff cause they feel like that's my humble thing or I won't be seen as a certain perception. So like the hustlers are humbled because they know they gotta do what they gotta do to get what they gotta get, right? That's why that's one thing why street artists, y'all complain about these street artists in street music, but boy, these street artists, hey man, they, oh, I gotta pay to do something. Oh, let me go and get the bag. Let me figure that out. Like I gotta do X, Y and Z, they hustle. But like back to the Russell, all right, if you don't know it's his backyard, if you don't know that he's doing this campaign where you can pay whatever you want, all those things, despite what the numbers are doing, like you said, our story, then the fact he's doing them successfully, that becomes even bigger story, right? And you share and you share. I think his project, so like, I don't know, it was like 1,200 units or something. I don't know, I just saw the number in passing, but like, the fans don't even know if that's a big or a little number. They have to tell the story like that, oh, this is amazing number for independent artists. You know what I mean? This is the top number for independent artists because that could sound little when you just think, oh, well, what did Kendrick Lamar sell? Or you don't, you buy it, you don't even know how much he sells. So it's your job to keep telling the story and make them aware of it. The story is, especially for Andy, like it is the superpower, right? It is the superpower. So you want Russell's killing that, and this guy, shout out to M.Triplin again for sharing your story and making a moment out of it, taking that L and flipping it, like whatever y'all paid to get on that stage, I'm sure it's worth it now, you know what I'm saying? But hey, man, shout out to y'all. The last thing I'll say too about the M.Triplin things, I meant to say it earlier, but what I respected about that is that like, if you've been at any of these festival stages early enough to see the open act, you know that's how it usually is anyway. So how'd it be? Yeah, bro, that's like, they're really just trying to convince, like going back to the fans on those shit, bro, I need to convince the fans of shit with this. I respect him for doing that because like anybody that's ever been there, they already knew, bro. Hey, hey, cuz what happens with everybody else? Everybody else shared a pic that's on, or the view that is just showing them and they make it seem like it was lit as fuck and everybody was there for him. Yeah, that's the game. That's the game. That's the game. And he flipped it by going against it and said, hey man, it wasn't nobody here. Yeah, it was me, me and these 13 people, but hey, I was here and I had fun, bro. That's what I respect about that shit. Hey, man, that's crazy, man. That's crazy. It's like just not flexing becomes to flex when everybody flexing. Yeah, cuz I think music fans are starting to get trained to be entertained by the more like real side of what it is to be a music artist, because there's more indie artists than there are like majorly popping artists, whatever term we want to call those. So like that's the real story of so many more people. You know, it's the reality of it. And I think people are starting to kind of get that and like sense that, especially it's like, a lot of artists are gonna be more like open about shit like that. And then if you are in the game yourself, like you know, you already know, you maybe just won't highlight that moment of yourself, but every artist has been through that at some point. You know what I'm saying? Like every artist I'm performing in front of 13 people. And I'm like, bro, you're at Rolling Loud, just because you're at Rolling Loud, which I think is the biggest learning moment for a lot of artists, especially ones that pay for it. Like you said, like you said a very important thing at the end, however much you pay for this shit, I'm sure you got your money's worth out of it because of this content thing. But there are so many who go here and think like, oh, it's rolling loud. Like it's gonna be, I don't know how many people go 50,000 people here. Somebody gonna come watch me. It's like, no, bro, that really might not. Like, cause nobody knows who you are. Why? Think about that. What are you gonna do with this content beyond this moment? Cause this moment might not be as lucrative as you think it's gonna be, but what are you gonna do with this shit on the internet? Yep. To make it worth it. So I think that's the most important thing cause you're right, but that hadn't happened. I mean, maybe he would have gotten the value from just having the experience, right? Yeah. Walking the stage. It felt good. You know, I'm like. Inspiration and shit. Roll out does a good job. They stay set up. I mean, it'd be a cool thing to go through, but yeah, he got easy. I would guess at least 20 X return. Bro, I'd be hurt, man. If I was somebody who performed the same day or last year and I only had five people show up. I'm like, dang bro, I should have did that. I was up here. Some of my feelings, I didn't see the vision, man. I should have flexed about how few people showed up. Yeah, bro. Now you can't do it. Cause he already did it. Like, oh no, you just copy him. If it was me, bro, like I would have went home and made a YouTube video about the whole thing. Like, yo, I paid, well, I mean, I guess we can. We shouldn't say that. We don't know. But we know. You know, I feel like we know, but we don't know. Yeah, we don't know that. You know, but I would have made a video about, yo, I performed for Rollin' Out for the first time here. But I would have really, I would have milked that shit so much. Now that, that can still happen. You can still do, I perform first time, even if you not him, but if he has footage, that'd be dope if you like, you know, peel back and then show that and kind of keep the thing going. That'd be dope. Bro, if you see this, like that one was on the house. Do that. Do that, I'll do it. Oh, man, man, man. Well, look, these are the topics and the things that we talk about on episodes like this. Again, this is no label necessary. The very first pod. Let us know if you liked it, you know what I mean? And if you like it, you know, put some comments and everything. We're not supposed to give more than one call to action. But I'm gonna give you all two today. Put some comments in the comment section, you know what I mean? Let us know. And then also watch another video after this. That's how y'all show us love. Bro, just get our watch time up and then we'll reap the benefits, you know what I'm saying? So appreciate y'all. Yeah, yeah, thanks. And if you're new here, just like and subscribe. This is the third call to action. Yeah. We're gonna put a checklist of action items for y'all to take at the bottom. You know what I'm saying? But, but, hey, man, it's Sean. It's Kory. And we outta here. Peace.