 I'm gonna get it right this time. I don't wanna be crazy, so. Yeah, we gonna talk, we gonna have fun. We be on fire, we be lively. It's a unique hustle, big shit. Check it, check it, check it. This is a unique hustle. It's your boy, E.C.O. And I'm here with the lovely official Mr. Mako. You done no walk-on with everything? Ay man, so today we got a special guest, man. Everybody done seen it, man. When it come down to sports, man, you can't miss it, man. Ever since the 90s, man. This guy, he came in the game. He pretty much educated on what was going on with, with everything that we needed to know when it came to the Cowboys. And this guy has been just treading through when it come to sports, man. Check it out, man. John Jock Taylor's here. Is it John or Sheldon? John. John. I knew I was gonna mess it up. Then I tell you that boy came and said, is it John or Sheldon? I wanted to say John Taylor, but I wanna make sure I get it right, man. That's all good, man. Thank you so much for coming on the show, man. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Man, so just to get in a little bit, I always ask this, man. And I'm gonna go first, right? Go ahead. So, so give us a little bit about yourself in case somebody don't know who John Taylor is. Well, I mean, it's, um, I'm gonna, I'm trying to figure out what I do, because I do so much these days. Oh, yeah. You can't really wrap it up. I've been researching you so I know you've been busy. Well, really right now I am, I'm writing. I'm doing a little bit of TV work. I'm doing some podcasting. I'm doing some radio and I'm having fun. That's what's up. So, um, what do you, um, coming up? Are you from Dallas originally? Rugged and led by the baby. Oh, man. This dude here, man. Hey, man. Oh, Cliff. He like her from Kingston, man. It's not a game. It's not a game. It's not a game, man. It's Rugged and led by the old Cliff. Same, man. That's real, man. Like when I first came to Dallas from the country, I was like, man, you gotta go, you gotta trade lightly in on Cliff. They had that rep over there. So what's going on, Steph? I know you got your list. You see the pamphlet? Oh, that's a lot of questions over there. A lot of questions over there. Last night, I mean, night before last, I had to stop when she was going in. So I said, wait a minute. I'm going to ask you a couple of questions. Not a whole lot. But I know you covered the cowboy, the Super Bowl, Super Bowl 30. Yeah. How was that like? Because was that the last time that they won? Yeah, that was the last time they won the Super Bowl. And what year was that again? 1995. That was a long time ago. Long time ago. That was my first year covering the Cowboys. And to be honest, I tell people this all the time. I made the jump much like Kevin Garnett and Kobe Bryant from high school to the NBA. So I was covering high schools and they got moved to the Cowboys. Wow. How does that feel? Well, see the way y'all say wow? Yeah. What I'm telling you is I don't really remember very much from that first year because it was so hard. That's it. And it was so overwhelming that I spent much of that year trying to survive. So I don't really remember a whole lot from that year, which is very ironic to me. I can imagine. I can imagine. Because you come in and all you're trying to do is make yourself known and doing research and divulging yourself into your work. So you're not really getting the chance to enjoy. I don't know. It was a weird situation. But if I look back in my career, I think one of it has been kind of God moving around, moving pieces for you because what happened was I was covering high schools. This is really funny to me because it's always funny when I tell this story. I was covering high schools, minding my own business. And there's one dude whose name I shall not divulge. Got demoted. Okay. Okay, but check this out. He was covering the NHL, the Stanley Cup. Okay. He did something. Nobody knows to this day what he did. But he got called back from New York and got demoted. And so the guy who was covering the stars started covering the NHL. Okay. The guy who was covering the Cowboys, Tim Cowishaw, who a lot of y'all see on the round the horn or whatever, said, okay, I'm tired of the Cowboys. I'm going to go cover the stars. Ed Werter, who was the number two guy on the Cowboys, said, oh, great. That means I get to move up to the number one guy on the Cowboys. And all of a sudden the number two slide opened up. Now, I was just covering high schools, but I was in the midst. I've had this a few times. It's like, it's like Steph Curry right now. He's an average 40 points in the month of April. Yeah. I was on one of them streets. Everything I wrote was like, bam, it was fantastic. Good. I was like, I think so. So I remember asking my boss at the time, you think that'd be crazy if I tell him I want to cover the Cowboys or to consider me? She said, nope. I said, don't lie to me now. And she said, nope. So I spent that weekend coming up with a plan for how I would cover the beat and what kind of stories I would write, how I would try to create sources and all that. Turned it in with a bunch of story ideas and they sat on it for a couple of days, called me and said, okay, we'll put you on there and give you a shot. Wow. And so that's how it started. So and I like, how did you get into writing on a whole? Did we, you know, how did you get into it? Just journalism and what was the thing that put you into it? That's just always, I couldn't tell you because it's what I've always done. Really? Yeah. I'm that dude who figured out it, you know, I call BS on that. Yeah. Yeah. But maybe not. I don't know. But I just always knew this is what I was going to do. I would say, I would say I really made a move toward it in like, you know, seventh grade, eighth grade. I mean, it's just what I do. So I couldn't tell you when I started or why I started. It's just what I do. Yeah. Yeah. And I've been pretty much single-minded in the focus. Yeah. So, you know, all in high school, I did it. And that's writing, right? When you got into the sports section of it, is that something you wanted to do? No, I did sports from the jump. From the jump. See what I'm saying? This is crazy. No. Right. But that's something, it was that before you did it, was that something that you wanted to, or you just wanted to write? No, I was always good at it. And what happened was... Do you love sports? Yeah. You can't do it if you don't love it. You gotta love it. You can grow to love it because sometimes you can get thrown into a position and you're like, okay, let me make the best out of this. Let me start doing some research. And once you're doing the research and you start to gain knowledge about that, then you're like, okay, well, I like it. No. Communication could be different. I was trying to say, I mean, you could do that. I mean, it's like a relationship. You could learn to love somebody. Arrange marriage. No. I mean, you could start off liking somebody and not really be all that interested in them. And then if you hang around of them over the course of time, you might find some things you like about them. And you could learn to love them. But when it started off, you didn't have no interest in it. Is that the way the players come off to? You know what I'm saying? No. Like far as you start off, okay, he all right. But then as you get learned more and more about him, he becomes more. Okay. He's doing. Yeah. He's doing the right job. You talking about just relationships with players? No. No. Not relationships. Just their skill set, actually. You liking a player because you like, okay, he didn't start off really great. Yeah. And he was arrogant with it at the time. Yeah. So attitude did have a little bit to do with it. But like, you don't even think about him that way. No. I think about him. The reason I'm good at what I do is I think about him like people. Meaning, but it means like this, if you walk into a party and you just walk in and you don't know anybody, there's certain people you're instantly like, okay, they look interesting. They look like they have whatever certain people you drawn to. So you go talk to them first. That's it. And sometimes you hit it off and you stay there or sometimes it wasn't what I thought. So you move on. Same thing as locker room. They gravitate toward first. And so you start talking to them. Some players, you instantly, just like at a party, you like, they do whack. Yes. You know, so you don't have any interesting talking to them. And sometimes they prove right. Or sometimes you go, oh, I was wrong. That dude was cool. And then some people you're ambivalent toward. So locker room is the same way. Players are the same way. Wow. People in general, right? Well, yeah, that's, you know, what you have to do is you have to treat athletes like people. Yeah. You have to treat them more money than you. Yeah. Yeah. But as I've told more than one athlete, I'm as good as my job is you are at yours. And I've told some, I'm better at my job than you are at yours. That's it. Oh, I know. Because I'm at the top of the food chain and you ain't. Oh, I definitely, I definitely seen some things happen. I can tell you some things that when the Dears brand thing happened back in the days. I've seen that. See certain things because always thought of you as my people. I was like, yeah, that's Jack Taylor. You know, that's family right there. But I really hadn't even met him. But I knew, I knew low range and not one to me. So at the end of the day, that's, that's how I look at it. But it's just a, it's just a good thing. But how, what happened with you and when did it with, when that, how did that go down for you? And that's a lot. There's a long time ago too. So yeah, I think that was, I don't even remember maybe 2015. Yeah. Yeah. Some of it was my fault. Some of it was dad's fault. Some of it, some of it was nobody's fault. Okay. That's the back story. Let's go back to what happened because for people like me who don't know the story. You know, I'm going to get to that. That's why I just give you the back story with some of it was my fault. Some of it was his fault. Some of it was nobody's fault. Okay. But, you know, I think it was 2015. Me and dad's got into a big argument in the locker room. Although the reality is, you know, the famous clip where he's going off and Jason Whitney's stopping his press conference and looking, he wasn't even mad at me. He was talking to somebody else. Oh, he just got put out there that way. Well, that's because, well, here's what happened because you have to have the back story to understand what happened in the locker room that day. Dad was coming off an injury and I think they played Seattle and he had two or three catches for very few yards and ended up writing a column about he's got to do better. They need more for him if he's supposed to be who he says he is and who he's proclaimed to be and who he's paid to be. All right. Cool. The issue came. So that, that was fine. I mean, you had a bad game. You had a bad game. Deal with it on it. That's your issue. Not mine. But the problem comes, something happened the next day and I couldn't like, if you write something like that, you have to show up the next day so that if he has something to say, he can say it to you because I don't think he showed up after the game. Okay. Okay. So something happened like out of my control, either I had something I couldn't stop. So I didn't show up on Monday. Oh. All right. Now Tuesday is the player's day off. Okay. All right. I think this is how it went down. So all of that is building up. Right. And then Wednesday, I think what happened is he didn't show up Monday. Uh-oh. I think this is what happened. He didn't show up Monday. Tuesday I didn't see him. Wednesday was the day I had something I couldn't I had to do. Yeah. All right. So now Wednesday, because I didn't show up, he told some people, oh, wear that blankety-blanket. I'm looking, da-da-da-da-da-da. I mean, people do that. Oh, it's no big deal. Yeah. So Thursday, because my people say, yo, your boy looking for you. So I, fine. I'll be there Thursday. So what happened Thursday is, and it's really funny because he's sitting at his locker sitting down and he's looking right, talking to somebody, talking, talking, talking, talking, talking. And at one point, he started talking about me. And so, but I'm walking straight toward him, but he didn't see me. Yeah. Because so he's talking about me and then I walk up right in his grid. Oh, man. And then he says, back up. And then, you know, we had some words because I was like, well, you've been looking for me. Well, here I am. Oh, man. But it wasn't really all that. I know it was. I mean, it was, you know, it was man to man talk because I am a grown man. You can't talk to me any kind of way. And I've always been like that. But he got up and he was walking out. And so I'm walking right next to him. And then, and this is what I say when I mean what I said earlier, then this guy named Devon Street, who's also a receiver. Okay. Comes out. Now have you heard of Devon Street? Exactly. Shut the hell up. I mean, exactly. You ain't heard of Devon Street. No, no. So Devon Street walks up and he tries to say, yo, quit talking. Like, dude, ain't nobody even talking to you. He's going to take his back. He's trying to take up for it. Right. Like, you and nobody. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You are classic. I'm better at my job than you are at your job. Yeah. Classic. So shut up because I'm not talking to you. And he kept on going and then he said, why'd you call me the n-word? I'm like, what are you talking about? You just call me the n-word. I thought, what are you talking about? So I'm on with Dez and now then Dez comes back and he's mad at this guy from Sports Illustrated because he tweeted out our conversation. Wow. So he's doing all that yelling and screaming. He's screaming at that guy, not me. But in the meantime, Devon Street has told people that I've said the n-word. Oh, man, it's going down. Right. So now I get on somebody's radio show locally and I'm talking about this incident with me and Dez and I talk about this guy and say, he said this. I didn't say that. I said, I ain't even talking to you. Yeah. I said, this is my old Cliff vernacular came out. Yeah. And after that, man, it blew up because and then say, I know how these things work. Yeah. Since I got off radio station, I sent my boss and ESPN and Bristol an email. Yo, this is what happened in the locker room. Yeah. Got to cover your graph. And then in Classic ESPN, and then as it becomes a bigger story, now we got to have a talk. Okay, now can you have them send us the video, the audio tape, but you're on the radio. But fortunately for me, one of the PR staffers said he was walking right behind me when I was having this conversation. He said I was two feet from him. He never said anything like that. And so to make a long story short, it blew over after that. But that was that was kind of like what happened with Dez. Did you, you and Dez ever talk after that? Yeah, man. Okay. I mean, Dez is cool. Yeah. I mean, if I saw him today, he'd dat me up. Yeah, because he ain't no clear for a lot, you know? That's what I mean. I mean, I used to sit at the gym all the time. And you know, I wrote all the stories on Dez when he was a rookie and when he was coming out of Oklahoma State. And so we had a really good relationship. It's just, you know, if you cover people long enough, I mean, it's just like marriage, man. If you stay married long enough, you're going to have some conversations that one person leave mad for a little while. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, it ain't none of my fault when it happened, I know. I'm trying to keep it going. Being a journalist, being a journalist, is that one of the biggest situation that has ever happened to you? Because you're going to have some things that you've written that people don't like. Yeah. And maybe want to step to you and argue with you about a certain, you know, what I mean wrong. Would you consider that as being the biggest misunderstanding or something like that? No, I've had a few of them, but typically they, I haven't had any real, Real bad. Not any that lasts because, see, what you're talking about happens. Like somebody steps to you and in your face, type of like. I don't think so because, see, what happens is that only happens if you've gone about your business a certain way. Okay. If I, if I come to you and sit in and write stories about why you playing poorly, but I've asked you why you playing poorly. And then I write it out that you playing poorly. I mean, that ain't my fault that you playing poorly. The problem most journalists had to end up in situations that you're talking about is some point when they were writing, they made it personal. Like they took a cheap shot or they said something. And they made it personal and they deviated from the facts. And again, see, this is all, being a journalist is number of relationships. That's why I use a lot of relationship analogies. If you having a disagreement with your boyfriend, your girlfriend, your husband, your wife, you can have a disagreement as soon as you make it personal and you leave the facts and make it personal. Okay. And now you didn't elevate the whole debate. So I've never really had those because I can write tough stories, but I've always asked you about it before I wrote it. You didn't open it up like, oh my God, I can't believe you wrote that. Well, dude, I was just talking to you yesterday about what I was going to write and how I was going to write and all these different questions. And so that's why I have avoided a lot of that drama. If you don't only do journalism about sports, you do it on other things too, right? No? Only sports? I don't like other stuff. You don't like it? No, like, seriously, I don't like, I don't, you could ask my wife, I don't watch local news. I don't want to hear about politics. I don't want to hear about babies dying. I don't want, I don't want to do any of that. So I don't, I had no interest in it. And when I was in college, I had to do it for a minute, just a minute. And when I was graduating, I was turning down job hours, people like, hey, come cover, you know, politics or come cover local news for us. Nah, for us, not what I do. It's so crazy because somebody mentioned the other day we were talking about the radio and we always feel like the radio is getting extinct somewhat compared to the podcast thing or with social media and everything else. Like for me, when I used to drive to work in the morning, the only time I'd listen to the radio is on the way to work. And in the case where for news, because people are like, you're going to look up, you want to hear about the weather, you want to hear about traffic. I put in my directions in my phone, even if I'm going that way every day all the time and I'll see, okay, is there a wreck or is there a, so I don't ever listen to the news anymore, even for traffic because my phone tells me everything. So there's no need to sit down and I wait for that news to come on or wait for this. I can find out right there on tip of my fingers. So whereas, because I know you've been in radio also. So how do you feel about the radio industry and where you think it's going? Well, I'm pissed at the radio industry because they fired me once I had a top 11 show. Wow. But, you know, in my business, Randy Galloway, who used to have a radio show for about 20 years, he's one of the first people to show a blue, see journalism is not a business when I got in it that you got rich. You can make a nice living but you couldn't get rich. Randy Galloway created a blueprint for how you get rich and how you get rich is you become a columnist and when you have a columnist you're an opinion maker and once you're an opinion maker then you get a radio show. Okay. And then what happens? You can take, I mean in normal situation, okay you getting paid a lot because columnist is top job at the paper. Now I got a radio show. I can bank all that money. That's how you get rich. Right. That was the, that was the blueprint for journalists getting rich. And so when I became a columnist I was like where my radio show? Where is that? And so I finally got one. Wow. Now the problem was You had that goal set. Once he told you that you had your goal set on the next one. Oh yeah, I mean that's the blueprint. Yeah. That's something doable. That's something I can do. But and I did it for eight months and then I got laid off at ESPN. Wow. I was like, because when I got the radio show I was like, man I only need to do this for like three or four years. I'm straight. Did you like it? Yeah. And so once I got laid off from ESPN then radio became, I never want to radio be a full time job, but then became a full, I mean it became my main job because radio ain't fair. I mean radio, new program director come in, don't like the sound of your voice, you got deep fire. Yeah, we just had Vita Loco on here Sunday and she was talking about it. So radio, man and girl. And so, but it turned out that way and I enjoy radio, but then radio show, I said, they didn't want to be a main girl. We went from 31 which was last in the market. It's really funny to me. We were last in the market last March because of the pandemic. People's listening habits changed. So we went and we were always on the cusp anyway. So we dropped all the way to the bottom. Wow. Took it all the way up and then literally three weeks later, they said, well, we changed to a national format. Wow. But I seen it happen. Like I said, Vita Loco just went through that same thing and they just don't, they don't, you have to have some tough skin, I told her, to work in radio. Yeah. You know what I mean? And they do a lot of layoffs for some reason. Yeah, they be tripping. We were talking to Jay Cruz, you were saying how they laid, they just shut that whole radio station. They just come in and close it down. The good thing for us was they told us that in August and we had six, six weeks before the final show. And so me and my radio host, because again, we had gone from 31st to 11th in five months. So clearly people like to show. Yeah, definitely. And so we, that's when we decided to turn the show into a podcast. So we got an LLC and started putting everything in. And we were like, hopefully, in the next few months, we can make some money. Yeah. And it turned out that we had several people contact us right away and say, hey, we could never advertise on your radio show because the rates were too high. Yeah, yeah. But for your podcast, tell us what you, what you're charging. We're like, oh snap. That's good. And so we've had advertisers from day one. And now I think we just added two more this month. So we're up to 10. I think we got 10 advertisers. We got a title sponsor. We got some work to do. I know. So it's great. So we're actually able to pay ourselves a little bit every month. And that's on your podcast. Mm-hmm. Which is great. And so it's growing. Matter of fact, we just, I was kind of shocked. We just had our best month in terms of downloads in March. And I say I'm shocked because this ain't football season. This is the off season. Yeah, it's called Jam Session, right? Yeah, I was just looking at Jam Session. So how'd you guys come up with that name? Jock and Matt. That makes sense. You know what I'm saying? Talking sports, jamming. We basically just, we put bosses in the front of us. See? So what about the first Super Bowl that you covered? Were you nervous? Have you ever been nervous when you covered something? Not really. Not really? No, it's, I mean, why are you nervous? It's what you do. You say that. I used to play a little ball and stuff. I got a little butterflies with the first of the game or something, you know, the world. And if I was going into an unknown situation, the first time, yeah, it messed with me a little bit. Then after, after you start, then bam, you get some excitement. Maybe excitement. But I wouldn't call it, I wouldn't call it nerves because I'm, you know, to me, this is just me now. Nervousness is a product of you're not really comfortable. You're not fully prepared. Yeah, I get it. But I know what I'm doing and I know I prepared and I know I'm good at it. And so the whole key is, and it doesn't matter what you're talking about writing sports, whatever, it's not to make it bigger than it is. That's it. It's what it is. You know, one of my favorite quotes of all time came from Emmett Smith because you ask athletes all time, hey, same question you just asked me. So you're asking Emmett, yo, were you, were you nervous before the Super Bowl? Yeah. He goes, oh no, no. So the obvious question is, well, you say it like that, well, why not? Why not? I said, you know, he said, well, you know, people who get nervous is there's a million people, there's 1,800, I mean, 18 million people or 50 million people out there watching me. Man, what if I mess up? He goes, nah, man, me and Mike looked at each other. That's why it's one of my favorite quotes. He said, me and Mike looked at each other and said, yo, there's 50 million people about to watch us do our thing. Let's go. Hey, yeah. There's just a difference in mindset. And so, no, I get, you know, you get excited because it's a big game or a big moment or a big event. Nervous? No. What about that? Let me ask you this. So, I mean, my kids, uh, they're 15. Not even the older, my older one is an Eagles fan, of course. But anyway, they've never seen the Cowboys win anything. Okay. See, I was going to get... They think I'm crazy. I was going to get to that point because the fact that the fact that I'm not from here, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. So what I consider football is soccer. Right. And when I came here... Who's your team? Of course, Jamaica because I'm from Jamaica, anyway. Right, right. But, um, when everybody, when I came here, oh, Cowboys is America's team. They sure are. I'm like, what makes the Cowboys, what makes the Cowboys the American team? And then every year, oh, yeah, they're going to win, they're going to win, they're going to win. And I'm like, and they come up here and they're all of a sudden, and I'm like, really? In the beginning, yeah, I'm not going to like, I'm trying to bandwagon because I'm like, America's team, I'm so tired of being let down. And I'm just like, you know what? Forget y'all. We do good a lot of years. The last time you experienced a Super Bowl, 95, what do you think that they are missing compared to the team that you saw back then compared to the teams that you have seen? See now. Now just now, over the years, it's been so many years. Wait a minute, don't stress it like that. I mean, the, you know, the reality is, every team goes through cycles. And when you go through your cycle, you have an opportunity to win. The question is, will you win during that cycle? Now, sometimes there's an outlier team that comes from nowhere, wins and disappears. But most of the time, teams that win, they're in the midst of a four or five year run, where they're really good. And it's, did you win during that period? So, if you look at the Cowboys, they have that run? Like for years? Oh yeah. Like consecutive? Yes, we did. Part consecutive? Yes. They had, I mean, so if you lose, if you lose, if you lose, don't do this to us, man. We had a hell of a hard day. Last Super Bowl. Okay. All right. They had a window from about 2007 through, I don't know, maybe 2000, really from 2007 till now, they've had three chances where they were one of the best teams. 2007, 2014, 2016, where they were really capable of winning champs. But why didn't it close? Because it's hard to win. I mean, it just is. So they had, they had opportunities those years to win and they didn't take advantage of them. So one of them, I mean, there's had a catch that wasn't a catch that should have been a catch. Yeah. So they lost that game one year. Dude from Green Bay makes a great catch on the sideline. What you want to say? So they ended up losing. So I mean. What if you say that? Okay. What's the name of that quarterback that no matter which team he goes on? Okay. We're going to talk about that. I don't know what I'm bringing. I mean, there's, I mean, there's an outlier. There's one dude in the history of the National Football League who's done that. So it happens. It happens. I mean, it's like, if you played, if you played with Michael Jordan was playing, you ain't winning no championships because Michael Jordan was playing. Boom. So you just, I hate him. Boom. What's your making? What's your making National Soccer Team one lately? Yeah. Since you're so up only. I mean, we ain't going to talk about you saying both. Because we know that's, that's good. That's what they go to. That's what they go to. I just asked them about you making soccer team. That's the topic at hand. Okay. That's the topic at hand. Okay. Because I was going to say they ain't want nothing. They ain't want nothing. No. We do have you saying both. They ain't even want a shitty team in championships. We do have you saying both. We ain't talking about track. We talking about soccer. Because you said soccer was your sport. Yeah. Yeah. You just said track was your sport. Track soccer was your sport. Let me tell you something about Jamaicans. Being a Jamaican, every sport that Jamaica represent is Jamaican sport. Okay. I'm telling you. How y'all doing in the sugar cane shopping? Sugar cane shopping. Hey. Y'all going to go to Melanet? Sugar cane shopping? No. No. I can tell you that right now. Blunt rolling? How y'all doing in that blunt rolling? We might have them in that. We might have them be in that. If there is a blunt rolling competition, Jamaicans will win. This is true. This is true. This is true. What other questions you got from Mrs. Jachtay? Okay. So being a Cowboys fan. Who said that was a Cowboys fan? Are you a Cowboys fan? No. That's a good question. No. Really? Why do you look like that? It was. That's surprising. Why is that surprising? Because you reported on them. You were there around them all the time. I would think That's why I'm not a fan. Yeah. Okay. Hold on. Were you a fan back then 95? No. I was a fan of the Cowboys up until I started covering them. Because once you cover them you can't be a fan. Plus what is fandom about? Fandom is about I sit there and I root and I cheer for your team. Okay. That's cool. So my boys I'm going to know how I stay fan because I went to school there. So I root and I cheer for my team and I have an emotional investment in the Buckeyes. I have no emotional investment in the Cowboys. Wow. Because the first time you get cussed out by a player you cease to be a fan. You got to understand it's work. I mean it's just work. It's like everybody got a job. My job is to tell you why they won and why they lost. And so You do a good job. That was crazy about everybody the way how they just love the Cowboys because He wanted the reasons though. He'd be breaking it down and we feel like we we feel like we in this locker room. Anywhere I travel anywhere traveling and I tell anybody oh yeah I live in Texas. Oh go Cowboys. I'm like you all the way over here and you love the Cowboys. New York. We're with the New York. We're with the Mississippi. Wherever we went we always loved them. They're America's team because you love them and hate them. That's it. I don't love them but I don't hate them. I never heard of stress that way but it makes it. They bring out the emotions in people. They bring out the emotions in people. Everybody get mad when I say something they get mad. But it's fine but let them be mad. We riding. We riding together. Me and the Cowboys every year. Off a cliff. So do you think that they'll ever come back? Yeah everybody they'll come back at some point. When Jack got that money it's going down. He has hopes every year. He has hopes. He's a fan. He's supposed to. It's going down. People don't know that he got something to prove this year. Every time the World Cup we're all around. Y'all think y'all are going to win. Oh yeah. See. Yeah they do. Every time. Yeah. You should. You know what I'm saying? And we ain't mad at you. We just getting into it ourselves. We doing our thing. So Jack what up? So 25 Super Bowls then it's true. Say man thank you so much for all the time man you looked out for me man giving me that that insight that I might didn't I might not even watch the game. You know. I said yeah I believe him and then I got to go I like some good you know what I'm saying. Right right. So how is it working with because you work with different television stations and all that over the years man you've done a lot man. So is that I mean you're building relationships the whole time there's names and people I can never even understand you dealt with Jerry Jones. You know it is the stuff that I would love to do to be honest with you to speak with certain people to elevate what I think you know. I mean I think it's you know the thing you have to do is is what I just said you have to treat people like people. That's it. You know I treat Jerry Jones like a dude. Yeah. Not like some billionaire owner. Yeah. And what happens is you just had to be yourself you know it's not a matter of I have to accommodate him. No I'm just me. Just being who I am. And being me is either good enough or it's not but if you're authentic like that there's a certain realness to you. Yeah. You know right now I'm doing a lot of work with ESPN's undefeated which is. Yeah. I read up on that. A website where they focus on sports and culture and it's really about which is another way of saying it focus on black folks. Okay. Okay. And so I've been in Jackson State and Deion Sanders because he's coaching there. Yeah. I was about to ask you about him and you know Deion and I were talking a few weeks ago because he was talking to a couple of his players and they were shocked at the reporters in the locker room because this was during the middle of the week and he said I've been knowing Jacques 25 years. Yeah. He said he's around because he's sound like him right now. Stop playing bro. He's around because he's the same dude consists today that he was 10 years ago, that he was 20 years ago, that he was 25 years ago when I met him. That's like Jesus. He ain't changed. Same the day yesterday and fell. You know? He said so and you brought up the word and he actually said it. He said it's that consistency that I don't have to worry about him which is why he's around right now. That's what's up. Because I don't have to worry about him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's real. You know he's going to do his job and it's cool and but but the point of that is the relationships which are built on authenticity and again and I've said this many times it's the people you had the best relationships with that you can have the toughest questions for because they know that you don't have an agenda. Exactly. So if I ask you why is it like I was talking to Deion the other day and after a game and he basically said the players aren't good enough. Wow. There's disconnect. We're teaching them we're telling it to them they're not getting it. Hmm. Okay. Now you can accept that answer or you can say that's your dog. The obvious question is are y'all teaching them well enough? Are y'all breaking it down for them to understand? Yeah, that's it. That's the question that you would ask anybody. Yeah, unless wow man he going to get mad at me so Can't worry about it. Well, I mean you say that but people are worried about it. Yeah, I know but I get I'm kind of like that on my job so I get exactly what you're saying. So that's the question you have to ask. Yeah. And then when you ask that question oh you get a much better answer. The defense is in. We start talking about really with the details. Is it willing? The defense is in. I went to the sideline and said what defense y'all want me to call? What can y'all what can we call where y'all won't have any mental mistakes? They said call this. We called that next play we gave a 43 yard touchdown dude ran down the sideline he probably still running. Okay. So now that's a great quote that's a great answer why I get that answer because I wasn't afraid to ask the follow up question which was in a nice way. Is it your father didn't learn in it? Yeah. That's exactly right. I get it. 100%. Todd you think he's doing down there? I think he's doing fine because this is you know this is an interesting year. This is not his team. Okay. Like I would submit to you that are the 22 players who started the last game. I would say the over and under would be five and a half starters in a fall. Wow. You take the over you take the under I would take the under. Mm hmm. You know so I don't think a lot of the guys playing right now will be playing in the fall. Wow. And so I think he's done a good job. I think it's but you know anybody takes over a position like that they haven't won in seven years. Yeah. That dude ain't no miracle worker. You know what I'm saying right. So it takes time to get your players in it takes time to change the culture. But they think the people who see Dion come because of the way you know a lot of the people a lot of the fans. Yeah. But fans of fans fans of fans for a reason. I get it. Yeah. But but he's Dion Sanders man. I love I knew you seen him run down the sideline and all that back in the days. Boy yeah. Hey we had some hell of a years man. This is man you you've seen some things man. I wish I could see I seen on TV though. What was the height what was to you in your opinion what was the height of your career thing that you saw that was such an amazing event. Event. Event and just anything in the journalism that you think that that touched you the most. An event that I went to event. So it's two questions event and then something that actually touched you whether someone said something or an award that was given or something like that. Event. That's interesting. I don't know you know I think if I think about it I covered the 2010 Olympics. Okay. And the reason that stands out to me is one they thought enough of me to send me to the Olympics. Wow. That's good. Two. Now I know why they did it. They did it because I was the best deadline person that they had amongst colonists and it was in Vancouver and so obviously with the time difference you know you want somebody who can write fast and good deadline. So I figured that was part of the reason why they sent me. But the reason that sticks out it was a monumental part of my career because I got up there to the Olympics it was the Winter Olympics. So you don't know nothing about that. You only know about the Summer Olympics. Except for that Jamaican Bobsled team. That was it. Aside from that you don't know nothing about that. That's it. I learned it somewhere. I learned it somewhere. Thank you guys for coming on the show man. Get him back over here. So I'm like you. I don't know nothing about the Winter Olympics except hockey. I know hockey is good. And so I'm covering it the first three days and I'm not maybe first four days because I was there 21 days a long time. And so I'm not very pleased my stories are fine but I'm not very pleased with them. And then I went and covered this skiing event with Bodie Miller who was one of the best skiers in America. I think he's coming off an injury and whatever you did that day I can't remember how it finished but I wrote that story and I turned it in and I said oh shit. Yeah I said that I don't figure this thing out. It ain't about the skiing or the figure skating it's not really about the sport it's about the person and I was like yo I just write about the people I make the sport the backdrop I'm gonna write about the people and as soon as I figure that out I got a note a couple days later from my boss oh your last two pieces have been fantastic keep it up and I was like that ain't nobody confirmation and so really from then on once I got back from the Olympics even now I write about people whatever it is it's about the people it's about the heroes it's about the villains it's about the people because that's what people are interested in. That is so true because we want to know I love where we I love and hate where we are right now in society because I love the fact that a lot of people are becoming more transparent with their life with their everyday you feel like you know a lot of people buy with the social media what people write people are not trying to just hide everything but some people can be so overly intrusive and just say all sorts of things and end up being bullying and those are the parts of it I don't like but I love the fact that I feel like I know you through whether writing or what people tweet out or what people say on Instagram, Facebook without actually knowing the person although not everything on social media not everything in the news is true you have to pick out you know how did you like that social media when it came into play because you've seen it when it came into play far as the tweets and all the stuff the Facebook is what it is did you seem like it was more opportunity for journalism far as to put stuff out there in a certain way or did it take away from it because journalism is where people used to always look for whether it be writing up in the Dallas newspaper or writing up I mean watching the news on TV people weren't really looking everything on social media to see the news and to see certain things I think social media gave provided more of an opportunity for journalists to brand themselves that's what I think you know and whether you took advantage of it whether you didn't whether you got labeled as a knucklehead I think it just gave you more of an opportunity for people to to brand yourself because people can reach you before they couldn't really reach you you reach by an email send you a letter whatever now they can reach you instantly I think like when I seen like what you just said emails when I seen the post office when I seen they wouldn't convert when emails came out you remember that they lost money on that whole idea not converting quick enough they could have they could have homed in on that whole market but they already had all the masses and I felt like I was like okay so the next thing happened you got to be on top of it as you lose out because technology is moving so fast right right and that's kind of how I looked at it because I seen a lot of people get laid off I think it was Sylvainia people get laid off from that place man post office so I was like man if they'd have converted that they'd have saved all those people's jobs I always thought about that it was I mean I think when social media first really started jumping it was a matter of embracing it or not embracing it and whether it's technology or whether something like this I've always been somebody who embraces change and whatever the latest is up until recently like the last five years I was that guy you know whenever a new phone I got it oh yeah? dude I was you know until I said okay now these phones are out so fast they won't be changing but for a while the technology was changing so fast that every year it was okay it would be different so I mean I did that okay because I always like the newest best technology some people don't like technology because they're scared of it me I always run to see I started doing that I liked that but then I hated it too because I always say okay let me give it a while for them to iron out a bug because whenever it comes out you always hear well sometimes it's a recall on it because this part needs to be fixed and I'm like you know what I don't want to be that person that has it that they have to recall it I'm like I feel like that about that vaccine right now man I'm scared of that vaccine I ain't even want to go there I'm kind of kind of scared but my cousin I had my uncle on the phone and my Uncle Calvin Brown and I had my Uncle James rolling out of California one of them took the shot and one of them didn't and they both was I was listening I had them on three way because I don't get to go see them like I used to and Uncle Calvin and they're older yeah they're older one's like 80 something and the other one's like 70 something he didn't take the shot too no he didn't he said are you sure about that I said dang so you didn't take it no so I'm edging it on I want to know why he didn't take the shot you know but he said did you have any symptoms after you know like he was thinking about taking it asking yeah yeah he the one in California Uncle James Brown he was like I don't know about this like but you say the older you think the older guy needs to take it oh yeah if you in the wheelhouse you need to take it well I'll say this on there because I just want people to know that I was in a meeting other night yeah my friend wife is a nurse and she say five elderly people took the shot and what else did he say that they passed away five elderly people died the same was of course all people gonna die anyway there we go it's just a touchy situation you'll never know what it's about they talk about DMX with the overdose but some people say it's because he took the shot two days before don't give it conspiracy stuff for you you know you know that's what I said you don't know because that's we live in a crazy world man I'll tell you what let me ask you you got no questions I don't do drugs I'm not asking about that I'm not asking about that I just want that on the record I ain't never been a drug guy yeah he's not a drug guy but you people who have yeah he's black uh hey well see check this out and I say I believe I believe this but I know a lot of people in old Cliff don't brand a city like that no but the hood let the man answer the question oh god go ahead well see like I know people who have smoked weed who smoked weed I don't consider weed a drug of course well see but I don't like none of it because I'm a control freak and so I don't like anything that prevents me from being a control so I've never been a drug guy and so I never hang around drug people and I be intoxicated by a lady oh oh yeah yeah and I might be I might I might be OD'd on that there you go chasing a woman that's good but uh but no I've never been I mean I think I was trying I think I was trying to blunt once in my life maybe twice that's it man I didn't fear you see what the big deal was yeah it made me to where I didn't want to do nothing so I didn't mess with it I like to be on point I got stuff to do you ain't for the I don't like none that does my senses that's it so back to my question original question yes so being in the career that you are in if a young kid wanted to do something like what you're doing what advice would you give them plus also would they have to have thick skin to be in the career that you're in they can't be also sensitive um okay I'm gonna take the second one first whatever you do you can't be sensitive because you know I tell people it doesn't really matter what field you're in or what you're doing you figure out amongst the people you can touch who knows what they're doing okay Elvis is in communications so when you start off you figure out who's really good at this job and you have some kind of rapport with them you the people who can tell me if I'm doing things well or if I'm not anybody else is just noise because people will tell you all sorts of things that have you believe and you can't do because they don't like you exactly or whatever that has nothing to do with you and you be feeling like oh I can't do this and nah it's really they just had an agenda so I've always been a person who kept a very tight circle about what I could do and what I couldn't do and then literally if you weren't in my circle what you said really had no effect on me and it didn't matter if you was my boss or not because bosses are the same way they don't like you they think you privileged they think you shouldn't so the fact that you were about the fact that you were my teacher didn't didn't affect me at all if my circle didn't say and but the thing is you have to have people in your circle like I'm in people's circle now and I remember I called my boy up one day he wrote a story he was covering high schools or something for the morning news and I had been working because I tell people they say hey I'd like for you to work with me mentor me okay you want the truth because I don't if you don't want the truth I ain't really the dude for you yeah yeah nah nah okay cause I say JJT school of junglers I can't even roll you but it you know it is what it is so I called my boy up what the fuck is this you wrote what do you say what are you talking about I mean really dude what are you doing it sucks yeah period this is what's wrong with it you can write this at any game any place any time in a year what are you doing there's nothing about this there's nothing about this it's original to the game that you went to you ain't got no quotes you ain't got the why in there that's what you do you're better than this duck yeah that helped him then he went through it and looked yeah you right man you done it let's not have these half ass effers no more my time is valuable your time is valuable exactly I told another friend of mine actually it's the same guy this is like a year later yo I'm with the SMU beat I need the SMU beat you ain't ready for the SMU beat wow you know no no you ain't this is what you need to do you got go do this high schools do this do this do this do this don't worry about the other stuff just focus on these things right here do that you be ready for SMU in a year wow that's good he did that he was ready came back yo SMU beat over I need it alright I got you I'll tell him put you on there he went through he had to go through setting people up for failure right so that's one you don't let so everybody got to have thick skin and you know the advice I give is it's universal advice because it doesn't matter it applies to whatever you want to do and you know the first thing you have to do really to be successful is figure out who you are yeah like and some people like me figure it out at 11 or 12 no it took me a little while some people can be my sister was in her mid 30s before she figured out who am I what do I do what do I stand for what am I all about what do I tolerate what do I not tolerate which is one reason I ain't never been around drug people because they know that ain't what I do so I mean I ain't mad at you if you do it but you do it over there and then we come over we do something else together we play video games exactly so who are you and once you figure that out then it can be where am I going because you can't go nowhere till you figure out who you are I mean you go someplace but you ain't got there's no destination in mind it's just okay so who are you where are you going that's your destination that's where you pull out the GPS okay now I'm going here okay now how do I get there bus, car, walk, jog, run swim, boat, yacht how am I getting there and those are all different phases that take people different periods of time that's why some people say you need to write a goal write it down so you and put it up so you can see it so you can know okay I've done I did this step I did this step and you still have your goal in your eyesight because sometimes we don't write it down you can get lost in the soft now my wife is all about that I mean I he don't write stuff down I write yeah no I got I'll forget I'll forget I'll forget so I gotta write it down yeah well say I started I had a conversation with one of my boys a couple weeks ago because he's big in visualizing and writing things down yeah and he's crushing it and I said probably listening to Steve Harvey so they do that so I said I'm in a different phase of my life so I'm gonna I'm gonna see what you're doing and see if it works for me now whenever you do this and I tell people it's all time you can't you can't copy what somebody else is doing you know whatever your plan is whatever your thing is you can't copy but you can show it to me and then like anything I take it and I manipulate it and I put in what works for me and I switch some things around and ultimately I kind of bastardize it and make it my own that's what you're supposed to do you're supposed to take other people's ideas and some people are like oh you're trying to copy no you take that I don't even call it taking people's ideas that's your inspiration and you make it your own don't do because what works for somebody else might not work for you you have to make it into your own I got a question I'm gonna take it over this in just a second so I took it I took it from my guy and I just sent him a text today that said yo we talked about this two weeks ago and the last two days was the first time I got it the way I wanted because I've been moving it changing it alter it moving things around I finally got it like I wanted and it's already working dog and I gave him an example of how I made it work and he was like that's what it's for and you know because I'm trying to create some different and some new habits which is hard to do in my age but not impossible oh no it ain't impossible it just requires more more focus exactly I won't ask you what's the key to a long successful marriage you know I gotta get in there I gotta get in there no you don't and how long you been married oh he been married like us so how long 17 years this time this time oh he a bad boy I was 10 on the first one yeah so what's the key the key is to to do what it is that you do and I say that because we have a very in a lot of ways I would say we have a non-traditional marriage which means I don't fix nothing don't ask me to fix nothing fixing stuff is not what I do she fixing stuff why? because she grew up in east Texas and where you had to fix stuff in a lot of cases and she likes to fix stuff she likes to buy something and put it together I don't like to put it together and so don't say well that's the man's job that's what no that's not what I do so don't ask me to do it I'm kind of the same way you and I'm from east Texas so yeah I'm from east Texas and you don't put he doesn't put anything together but I don't want I pay somebody to do it I feel like my time is more valuable but you know what I feel I feel like okay you pay for somebody to do it how about this I'll fix it you pay me that's what she be saying I'm like no I'll take the money because I get the choice to hire who I need to hire to get it done but I do most of the cooking I do most of the grocery shopping I don't do well I do you make me do the grocery shopping we do it together I think we had a lot of conversations I think people always say communication but communication I mean the reality is people fight over sex and money so if you can figure those two things out it really reduces the amount of time that you argue and if you know I think the last thing I don't really think it's complicated for a lot of people is neither one of us sweats the small stuff like people do stuff to get on your nerves every day oh every day but if you sit around and tell somebody every time you do something to get on my nerves I mean what's the point I mean because I mean I do stuff to get on my nerves every day exactly you do stuff to get on my nerves every day but it doesn't do you any good to point it out you just point out the big stuff like yo okay this right here come on now yeah we got to work on this yeah but outside of that because anybody if you toss away and find another one it's just going to be somebody else who do stuff to get on your nerves I know it that's my big deal right there I was like oh yeah if I try to go another lot but if she toss me away it'd be some other joker in here who would get on her nerves so it's all about you know for me and her it's about that and we got we got a real good money concept and so you know if you could do that you make it happen one guy was on if you don't have money you don't have love something like that she was upset with him well you know I say he said when the money run out the love is gone it's when you see yeah he said most women when you get married or you choose a partner you choose it for money it's not really for love in the aspect of because I told him I said like I've heard like tiny her aunt would always tell her when you marry married for money but in her case she was happy that she got married for money but then the love also came as well because a lot of people although you say you married for love if you don't have a job or if he's not doing this you jump in shit because he's not doing he's providing man she wanna wanna do his thing though we hadn't had that problem so I really can't relate to that you know but that's what he was saying I think it's I think men and women look for different things at marriage you know I look for love because I grew up believing in that you know the white fairy tale love the white picking fans the white picket fans and stuff like that you know all of that sort of stuff because you know growing up as a little girl watching those we had Sunday matinees that used to come on with the Dean Martin and all of those type of movies the love the romantic stuff so that's what I was always growing up thinking life should be like then you watch boys in the hood when you came over here and it's going down Jack Taylor man we appreciate you for coming on the show man we thank you I need your top three artists all the time oh music wise you want to hear your music I wasn't going to put that on you but you listen to music you listen to music okay she wanted any genre dead or alive so it can be soul it can be R&B it can be rock it can be hip hop it can be any you don't know what that man listened to my fan man I don't think it's very original my favorite three okay go ahead it's your favorite it's your top three yeah but you know it's funny I have see I would say I have my top three of all time and then I probably have my top three that I'm listening to now top three all time of all time but see all time would probably be what Michael okay dang Michael Jackson just he's topping the charts that's everybody but you know Michael's my genre because that's who I grew up with yeah yeah yeah and then there's probably Prince Prince that's a hot that's what I'm saying there's the two of them yeah and then you know the third one is really interesting because I'm not really sure who that would be wow throw somebody in that slot could be somebody you listen to now it's up to you you know my problem is I'm so eclectic these days those are like McDonald's and Burger King and whoever is third is so far behind yeah yeah and which is rightfully so because Prince was a monster he played and I mean they really one and one 27 instruments but a lot of people who say Michael always throw like Tupok somewhere in there yeah but now I'm thinking I was really more of a Tupok than a biggie guy I don't like biggie me too Tupok got me Tupok got me through my divorce wow oh I was blasting Tupok something something hard matter of fact Tupok's probably number three number three so Michael Jackson Prince and Tupok not a bad selection I like it from no UGK from well I'm a UGK fan don't don't do this okay I listen to PLC and UGK see I don't really like rap yeah see we different I like when it comes to rap that's what I listen to but if I went with music I say 27 instruments I know you've heard of UGK to that came here to the state though or should I man him I should say well I mean I came out of high school in the country and that's what I listen to now if y'all got a problem with it you know what I'm saying that's y'all that's my top three now but definitely Jock we love you man we definitely appreciate you coming on appreciate you for coming on we want to bless you with an award yeah we want to because we give our guests roses while they're here especially when they're y'all counting we have a lot of a lot of guests but you you definitely stick out well I appreciate it very much man I see you're gonna start a lot of my pictures off of Facebook yeah that's my wife I'm gonna have to change my I'm gonna change my account to pride shout out to the official manager man so you want to sit back down before we're gonna do it over here then we'll work Lorraine for doing the okay cool do you want to present it to him now we can end it and then are you sure he may want to hold it or anything okay well let me present you with this award yeah yeah thanks hey man I appreciate that yeah yeah yeah man appreciate this Jock Taylor man one of the best journalists to come through for me I could promise you that I already knew that got my name right and everything oh that's her that's what's up right there say man boss talk 101 okay Mr. Jock Taylor we here at boss talk 101 would love to present you with this award to tell you thank you for your many many many many years of service and I'm only many many many many okay okay let's say that again many many many yeah years of service in the sports journalism industry and we'd love to thank you because you did really really good work alright well I appreciate that alright thank you oh yeah man Jock Taylor we're giving them roses water here man