 Good evening everyone and thank you for joining us. I'm the co-founder of the Crucible Pedro, but this is modern day debate and I will be subbing in for James tonight as moderator over this amazing debate we have for you tonight between internet personality I'm really important and twitch streamer stardust going up against author of the book occult feminism Rachel Wilson also known as based homeschool mom alongside her husband and co-founder of the Crucible who might have zero absolutely zero affiliation with Andrew Wilson tonight they will be arguing if there exists some sort of woke agenda on the left what are his true or false both parties have been briefed in the background how this will be conducted and finally we'd like to thank you all if this is your first time or if you're returning to modern day debate welcome and enjoy but before we get to that we would request you all hit that like button subscribe to the channel and if you feel like you want to contribute to the growth of this platform through any of the links in the description please donate or purchase some of the merch from this channel enjoy the show ladies and gentlemen all right and welcome everybody Andrew Wilson we already discussed in the background it'll be your side of the team who'll be given their opening statements this is the subject of is there a left-wing woke agenda going on you have six minutes sir go for it okay can you hear me okay yes we got you okay great so just kind of launch this off i'm going to start by saying that woke culture is gross it's disgusting uh as to the question of the if there is a woke agenda the answer is most certainly yes hard to imagine the two lives here who are ardent supporters of destiny who was deep platformed by what mr girl called transo culture for the high crime of well likely telling the truth would even uh try to make an argument that there is no woke culture when we see it inside of the very platforms that they stream on the truth has become a revolutionary act very few people tell it at all liberals least of all neither opponent can say truthfully that progressives don't control essentially all major institutions including the government right now very difficult to believe the progressives here can say with a straight face that such a culture does not exist as woke culture twitter almost as soon as the announcement was made that there would be a change in hands broke their fingers typing brand new code as to cover their tracks of obvious shadow bannings showing us hundreds and thousands of accounts that instantly had tens to hundreds to thousands of followers overnight because these accounts were clearly being suppressed this is part of this technocracy woke technocracy that has a control grid over almost all major media institutions the agenda of woke is completely obvious we can move into some of the uh you know more controversial lgbtq uh advocacy groups which are part of this woke culture but for the purposes of tos i'll try to stay at least somewhat clear of those and i don't even think that we need to necessarily get into them for me to make these broad points to you we saw during the blm riots the exact same type of woke culture and there was massive corporations that were being promoted by the media who were giving tens of thousands of dollars to professional provocateurs and rioters in our streets in order to push what was an obvious communist agenda saying that there is no woke culture is absolutely insane course there is i doubt my opponents can make a case for how there isn't and with that i'll turn it over to my wife thank you hi everybody this is my first time um on here debating with andrew so this is going to be fun um stardust and i've had a a good debate before a couple good debates before so glad to be back here talking with her um building off of what andrew said in my book which you can buy an amazon um i have done a ton of research on feminist movements but you might already know that the feminist movement was tied in throughout history with all kinds of other liberal social movements such as abolition early on and then later civil rights and gay rights and and now it's all intersectionalism right so the whole woke agenda that we're talking about is essentially just a movement to disintegrate the the social order the standing social order which has existed fairly in the same form in the west for thousands of years i mean we've had a nuclear family we've had a patriarchy and a hierarchical system and the woke agenda is really about tearing that down disintegrating that um dissolving all boundaries and making everything permissible um any type of limits any type of boundaries other than please don't hurt me bro are basically you know trying to cast out it's it's essentially um it started with the enlightenment and now we're we're in the kind of hyper phase of it where it's basically anything and everything goes everything is acceptable and the end goal of that is going to be some kind of globalist technocratic order where um it's very top down control there is no private property no nuclear family um things of that nature so when we see all these these social movements that just in the last 10 years things that would have been absolutely unthinkable 10 years ago are now suddenly not only totally acceptable but are being pushed heavily that's why you see um maybe 20 years ago the younger generation only about one to three percent would identify as some type of lgbtq identity now we see in um gen z about 20 percent identify as some kind of lgbtq and it's because this is cool acceptable it's almost like you're weird if you're not gay or something like that now so uh there's definitely an agenda but it's it's much more than just republican versus democrat liberal versus conservative or right versus left it's much much deeper than that and ultimately it does have some spiritual underpinnings as all political battles do so there's certainly an agenda and i think all you have to do is know a little bit of history to see that and that's about it for me okay um all right so uh can you guys hear me okay yes okay all right okay uh so woke ism is an adjective meaning alert to racial prejudice and discrimination what woke ism is is an awareness of racial and social justice issues and a dedication to strive for better this has been an ongoing movement since the civil rights um and the term woke is just a continuation of that something that a woke agenda is one in which people are called cancelled for not believing the right things and companies are nefariously participating in pushing progressive agenda to change culture however this is not my stance my stance is that woke ism is good for business good for growing children and not correlated with cancel culture woke ism saved iconic american brand matel as barbie sales bloomed during the pandemic following a revamp woke ism is a good thing encourages diversity acceptance of differences and equality cancel culture on the other hand has been around for a long time and has been something that many different groups have participated in whether that's progressives conservatives or people in between um moral panics are often perpetuated by conservative fear and result in the cancellation of various people some examples of cancellation not perpetuated by woke ism are the red scare or macartheism um the federal bureau of uh narcotics trying to forbid billy holiday from performing anti lynching song strange fruit disco demolition night nina Simone getting banned from the radio and much of the south for the song mississippi god damn the panic around dungeons and dragons the 1980s and 1990s which is you know the very nerdy game um that people suspected a bunch of nerds were uh i guess worshiping demons through this game uh the satanic panic and uh most recently calling uh calling uh cape for necking cancer for kneeling during the anthem um with these examples i find it hard to blame woke culture for cancel culture or um accountability culture in fact i would largely blame moral panic and outrage for the rumination of many lives over the decades okay are you you're good stardust yep i'm okay cool so i don't think there is a woke agenda i think this is just a continual pursuit of civil rights like stardust was saying inequality um and it's being amplified nowadays by social media things like tick tock and uh people are seeing videos that outrage them are the most extreme things so they feel like the whole world's falling apart and we're at the point now where the right is no longer using culture war topics to distract from their terrible economic policies but rather than just using culture war for the sake of culture war to rile people up and get them out to vote so that they can hold on to power they need their bogeymen whether it's transgender people undocumented immigrants the education system whatever it is but i think people need to stop blaming pursuit of equality for their problems i mean people trying to identify as something doesn't affect you in any way at all my bigger concern is the economic fallout that is starting to come from some of these laws that are being passed to try to push back on this stuff i mean we don't have to look very far we have the parental rights and education act in florida also known as the don't say gay bill and poor disney a private company decided to speak out on behalf of its employees which i thought conservatives are all for freedom of speech but i guess not in this case interesting and now the state of florida wants to pass or did pass a law to dissolve disney well our disney world's district where they set their own taxes the reedy creek improvement district by june 2023 and what is this going to do this is going to pass a billion dollars debt onto the taxpayers they're going to lose out on a hundred million dollars in taxes that disney was able to levy on the local population and property taxes are going to go up like 20 percent so it's it's getting kind of serious now with this anti-wokism nonsense and i think the is on the people out there saying there's an agenda it's up to you guys to lay out not for us show us who the players are show us what the plan is show us what the goal is you gotta lay it out like a rico case for us to buy it buy what you're selling so i look forward to this discussion i'm excited to see what our friends on the other side have to say thank you uh for that opening statement i r i uh at this time we're gonna open up the floor uh but to let the audience know uh there'll only be 50 minutes of across examination after that we'll have audience questions during that time submit your questions and i will be copying them over and then i'll bring them up later the floor is open go for a gentleman okay so first and foremost i can't kind of help but hysterically laugh at the contradiction of our opponents the first of which did a bait and switch and says yes there's a woke culture that's true but what that really means is civil rights it's not what it means that's absurd on its face and then your partner who you obviously didn't coordinate with says no there's absolutely no such thing as a woke culture at all nothing at all there is no woke culture doesn't exist the onus is on you the onus is on us we don't need to prove it right you're a teammate just gave us a definition of what you consider it to be which is everything that's egalitarian based right that's what her definition of it was so do you disagree with that i'm really important do you disagree that stardust definition of egalitarianism is basically wokeness or maybe the stardust want to backtrack on that and we explain it i i think that we didn't contradict each other at all because um we both have not said anything to affirm a woke agenda sure we can identify what wokeism is right um and we can we can definitely we can definitely identify like wokeness within culture but as far as an agenda like a coordinated um uh uh thing to to um like push progressive agenda i i've yet to see an example of that well wait if everything that's egalitarianism that's being pushed by the government is woke agenda how's that not coordinated that's insane i can't even believe you just said that it doesn't even make any sense on its face stardust uh okay so so what yeah what what what woke um what wokeness is being uh pushed by the government well according to you anything that is egalitarianism you said we can define wokeness we know it when we see it and it's basically any form of an egalitarian movement that those were all the examples that you cited for your definition of what wokeness is so to say that everything from the civil rights and this type of things are not coordinated is absolutely insane on its face so maybe you should just backtrack a little bit and give us a different definition that's no so i'm gonna no i'm not so woke is them again what what i said it was an adjective meaning alert to racial prejudice and discrimination um it's an awareness of those issues it's an awareness of those issues it's an on it's an ongoing um uh idea right it's not a excuse but it was like a continuation of civil rights correct well yeah those the ideas around the civil rights yes um that totally wasn't coordinated though stardust uh not necessarily no there's not it's not like an agenda no there was no agenda for civil rights uh i don't think there was in the in the way that you mean it i guess what way do i mean it and what way do i mean it that i'm not saying it correctly for you was there a civil rights agenda or was there not stardust um there was not i think people had to fight very hard for civil rights would you say that the civil war was part of a civil rights agenda stardust the civil rights was part of a civil war agenda yeah the civil war would you say that that was part of the civil rights movement you know that whole war for the freeing of slaves thing would you say that that that was agenda based maybe highly coordinated by uh government agencies that maybe two full government agencies in fact right um i think that the civil war was more about um recognizing that slavery was wrong right and i think that civil rights you mean right the civil war um well well look we're talking about right now okay so let's let's stick with modern day here what we're arguing we're not arguing the what wokeness is she was just saying hey look wokeness is this is the colloquial definition of it but what we're talking about is there an agenda that's what rachel said rachel said there's an agenda that's being played out right now so you guys you guys tell us who are the players what's the plan what's the end result your definition already we got your definition which included all of the egalitarian governmental players who are involved in wokeism by your definition so what are you talking about i think you're conflating movements with agendas yeah but you kind of know that one i think i can clear this up because you guys know that when congress convenes the democrats have an agenda and the republicans have an agenda you could say conservatives have an agenda an agenda just means like this is our plan this is uh something we want to do because we want this certain end result that we're going for now i mean the debate is about whether or not there's a woke agenda and stardust you kind of said well there is but it's not a bad thing it's just a continuation of the fight for civil rights and then i'm really important said no there's no agenda prove it bros so andy was just saying you guys conflicted no no i don't think that's conflicted i think i think what's going on is andrew is conflating um me talking about a woke movement as like um as as me acknowledging there being an agenda i don't think that there is an agenda i think that that the the movement for civil rights the movement for social quality and social justice has been something that's been going on for a long time does that mean that there's like an agenda for it i don't think so i think people had to fight very hard and had to fight with their own government to get those things well then that was being agenda stardust here are you talking about stardust i've got the dictionary definition of agenda it says a list of items to be discussed at a formal meeting okay so there you go where what is our list of items that we're trying to accomplish with with wokeness like i've never seen anything like this oh i can tell you i'll i'll tell you all about it if you've ever watched a single alexandria ocasio-cortez rant you've probably heard what the liberal agenda is if you've ever listened to any of the feminist speeches any of the civil rights speeches any of the the um gay rights speeches generally what stardust is talking about would be considered an agenda they say we want this we want this and we're not going to rest until we get that right all these different groups came and what we're saying the woke agenda is like the far it's the very ultra progressive side of things and my argument was it's been very clear these people lay out exactly what they want to do they have for the last 150 years if you know a little bit of history you know what every one of these movements was about and how they were all interconnected which today we call intersectionality right they'll tell you exactly what they want black lives matter has an agenda they will tell you what it is and they have told you what it is so i i don't think it's that there's not one i think it's that you guys think it's a good agenda and we think it's a bad one i i so what was that about intersectionality so all these different groups fighting for their civil rights whichever group you want to pick right now when we when we talk about intersectionalism the theory of like feminist intersectionalism or you know it's like where okay so who's the most oppressed if i'm a black bisexual woman well i'm super oppressed because i have three groups of crossover of like being uh an oppressed individual so this is all of these quote unquote rights movements coming together and saying hey we all have a lot in common we have a lot of crossover let's work together which is what they've always historically done and i'm not saying the people in these movements on the ground didn't maybe have good intentions sure they did and i'm not going to say every single thing that ever they ever accomplished was bad but i will say that they are unwittingly part of a much larger plan to kind of just redefine and reorganize the social order that's obviously what woke ism is woke ism is we don't want uh nuclear families with dads as the head of the household mom staying home raising the kids we don't want um you know small business and private property and we don't want you know we don't want capitalism we don't want these things we're going to change it all we want to reorganize it that's what the soviets did that's what we've done here um in different ways it's always about just reorganizing the social order that's what wokeness is really about okay so so so um so no i i just i i broadly define woke ism as being alert to racial prejudice alert to discrimination right that's that's pretty much that's what what i define it as um as far as as as far as as far as and a um an agenda um i think if if you mean an agenda is when um people do related things and that's a really really broad very broad uh definition of an agenda then you know what yeah you can apply that to anything there's an agenda for everything people do related things all the time as far as there being a coordinated effort between all of these different movements i i disagree um you've seen throughout history throughout civil rights movements where one group will get um uh get equality or get the rights that they want and then they'll close the door for the for the people behind them so no i don't think that there's an agenda uh that if you that is your definition that is your definition that's your definition if you think that agenda is people doing related things that a lot of people can do related things but that is such a broad agenda that is such a broad um definition of agenda you could apply that to anything nobody said it had to be coordinated nobody said the word coordinated you just made that shit up no i didn't but it's great rachel brought up coordination rachel brought up coordination because it is not between not between woke groups specifically so you can have i mean that's what the claim was from rachel was it not who's not yeah that was rachel's claim rachel was saying that you can have you can have like blm for instance not necessarily coordinating with some other woke group in order to have an agenda that is still specific to andy i can easily prove her wrong it's not even a point we have to argue because if you look at the black lives matter agenda if you go to their website and see their platform they are marxists they want to fight for marxist um social order they agree with feminism they agree with all these intersectional uh rights movements they do agree and they do overlap that's why you have giant conventions like the first international global convention you got the second international you had the humanist manifesto the humanist manifesto number two throughout the last 150 years there have been globalist organizations that have worldwide conventions with people from all over different nations coming together to say yes we we agree like we may not agree on every single thing but we all want marxism we all want to you know destroy the patriarchy we all want to end the bourgeois class like yes they do coordinate absolutely they do well i mean it's just a matter of historical record that they do to say that we don't it's silly you you brought up aoc so this is one member of 435 in the house who has a huge social media presence she does not represent the party in fact we didn't choose bernie sanders in the 2020 primary we chose somebody much more moderate so i would argue that this woke agenda you claim is taking over including destroying the nuclear family as if that's a mission in life i think it's about expanding the idea of what a family is so more people feel welcome and feel accepted in society you know not everybody has a mom and a dad some people can i finish can i finish can i finish my point i'm sorry and then you bring up the lm i was gonna say yes all right get get your point out yeah no worries um and then you brought up the blm website well i could create a website tomorrow and say i'm one of the leaders of blm and here's my mission in life does that define an entire movement of people spread across the united states tens of millions of people i went out to blm protest those people don't represent me that put up some website with some tenants on it i mean come on let's be realistic here that's not fair are we gonna let you guys be defined by some extreme characters on your side of course not that's ridiculous i would think that you would let us be defined by the leaders who are on our side that we supported i really important like aoc not an abortion leader is like oh aoc she's only she's only one she's only one out of a large body out of a large body who's she's got powerful except that they have doesn't she but they have a joint agenda right she's part of a party platform she's literally part of a party platform what are you talking about man she's a marginalized voice within the democratic part she's one of a small handful of people she's not even in leadership how is she a leader in our party she's an extreme member powerful positions on committees isn't she one of like committees she's one of like legislation she's one of like 40 members i can't point to a single piece of legislation that sees she's even had a vote on on the floor no well i mean what about all the giant uh ngo's that have woke agendas like the Rockefeller foundation or the ford foundation what about these massive wealthy think tanks that direct all of the you know kind of agendas for governments it's not even aoc i'm not so worried about aoc there's much larger nongovernmental organizations that have billions and billions of dollars that kind of direct these agendas you don't think that that that's the thing is that also just a crazy conspiracy theory that doesn't exist i i do not think that there are ngo's trying to break up the nuclear family i ask you what's the purpose why would they want to destroy the nuclear family why would they want to see families not have a mom and a dad instead of i can't tell you any idea sure i'd be curious to hear so there was a bolshevik revolutionary named alexandra kohlenkai she was the first diplomat ever to hold a position she was the first woman ever to hold a main government position in history she was part of lenin's government um and she instituted the she was the commissar of social welfare she was the first to legalize abortion which set a precedent around the entire world she has hundreds of writings well known essays not well known maybe by us in the modern day unless you're me and you're a nerd and you read these things but she absolutely laid out exactly why she wanted to dissolve the nuclear family because she said there was no such thing as liberation for the proletariat nor for women unless we dissolve the patriarchal structure of the family and saw women as labor units who whose loyalty was owed to the state she felt that the state should be the dad we need to get rid of this need to yeah she feels like that came true and women are labor units so as far as the new she wasn't the only one many of the the bolshevik revolutionary said this nuclear family stuff has to go do you want to know why because they said this is how the bourgeoisie passed down a private property they want patriarchy so that they have legitimate heirs so they can pass down generational wealth we want to end generational wealth we want to end private property therefore we have to end the family and the institution of marriage they wrote this i mean you can go read it it's right there they tell you what they're gonna do a hundred years ago a hundred years ago somebody wrote something and we're supposed to assume that's being played out right now in 2020 who cares if it was written a hundred years ago or 200 years ago or 300 years ago we have documents right now that we follow that were written hundreds of years like what are you talking about man makes no sense on its face the what was asked specifically was can you demonstrate a cog in this woke agenda to to show what it is that they want rachel's like here let me demonstrate it i'll give you the name i'll tell you exactly what it was that she wanted i'll tell you exactly why they wanted the deconstruction of the nuclear well it was to make women cogs in the workforce and what are they right now iri well they're cogs in the workforce aren't they labor units let's go okay so so first off first off just because that that was written um doesn't mean that we follow that today that was written by one person right you don't think that the marxist theory has any effect on well things today i mean it might in some in some abstract way but that doesn't mean that we're pushing for specifically the dissolution of the nuclear family the push for racial justice had nothing to do with the push for dissolution of the nuclear family in fact the nuclear family um was something that was was a very privileged thing for a lot of people to even be able to have in their lives right because a lot of the time with these nuclear families if um there would be other people other workers who were also like women who had their own families who were forced to work and they because they were not middle class or upper class right for the for people who were poor it's it's it's they've always had to work it's it's not um it's not as if um people didn't um didn't have to already go out into the workforce in fact children had to work for a very long time so um i don't think that that wokeism or the push for for racial justice or the push for for gender um uh equality means that we're trying to um to destroy the nuclear family if anything um i think that we're just trying to make more types of families accept it okay all right and i'm pausing the clock really quick just so we can i i do actually want everybody to smash something right right now and it's that like button we have 252 people watching i'm sitting here for james right now in his seat trying to help grow this channel and we thank you so much for watching continue today okay so first and foremost stardust uh you say well you know the the poor the disenfranchised women well they always had to work well okay yeah that's true but we also had a budding middle class where a whole lot of women didn't have to work for an awful long time and when we're talking about the nuclear family we're not talking about it only has to be dad mom and kids when people reference it they mean cross-generational families meaning if grandpa lives there no big deal maybe there's a niece that lives there maybe there's a nephew okay that's all fine nobody's nobody's making an argument against that what we're saying specifically is that the deconstruction of having a family unit with a mommy and a daddy and the kids is something that is consistently under attack by woke progressive leftists and it's foolish to say otherwise as we see it play out right in front of our eyes you say we just want to expand the family well to look like what to look like anything that we can make it look like that shows worse results and worse outcomes i mean everybody almost every time prominent gay couples now um hiring surrogates to make babies for them and everybody's applauding that you guys don't think that's a massive disruption of the social order not at all Dave Rubin seems to be doing quite well with his uh him and his partner adopting a child i think they'll raise wonderful kids there's plenty of kids that grow up to be one just great citizens that are raised by two moms two dads three dads what's wrong with two friends raising a kid what's wrong with three bosom buddies wait what's wrong with three bosom buddies hanging out raising a kid you tell me i i'll ask you this is there a limit what are the boundaries what would be unacceptable to you is there anything nothing people say i love my i love my seven partner oh so everything nothing so you just conceded what i said in the beginning which is that the goal of the woke agenda is to dissolve all boundaries all limits and make everything except no no no no i do want to differentiate why would you say nothing i don't know because yes just let me say real quickly if we are not trying to eliminate your mommy daddy scenario that's what you guys are implying we are trying to expand what the idea of a family is you want to have a mommy and daddy we have no problem with that i love it yeah i think you can look at uh anybody can look at statistics and for sure um by far having two parents in the house is better than having one parent in the house for outcomes for children 100 but when you talk about the nuclear family you are not defining it correctly the nuclear family is specifically a family group consisting of parents and their children living in a one-home residence this does not include the extended family the extended family is something that is also a very traditional family unit right that we've seen throughout time and and wait a minute wait a minute wait i'm not finished i'm not finished okay you're talking about we're trying to do we're not i'm not finished that that that that that is there any Andrew no no no let her finish Andrew let her finish letting you guys finish okay yeah but first off um uh first off you guys are talking about preserving the nuclear family well and then you're trying to shoehorn the extended family underneath that that's not true the nuclear family has always been about the the parents and the children living in their in their house together you do not include the extended family that and why not extended family has because that's not the definition the extended family and let me finish i'm not finished okay the extended family the extended family is something that has been a traditional form of the family for a very long time not just in the united states but all over the world and um and one thing that we want to do is to be accepting of the extended family these joint families living together big families living together because guess what's even better than two parents in a household two parents and two grandparents in a household and all of those people being able to share responsibility and taking care of that is amazing and then so great so well how long are you going to go before i can respond to any of your points so first and foremost start us we're saying and both two right we're saying it's okay to have an extended family unit and a nuclear family unit isn't that great so if grandpa needs to come live with you that's just fine that has nothing to do with the price of tea in fucking china one two let's move into uh let me ask you this question if you didn't have your mom and she was replaced with a second dad do you think you would have missed your mom do you think that you got things from your mom that you could never have gotten from your dad because i want you to kind of lie to me right now and say no i think if i had two same-sex parents the outcome for me would have been exactly i was raised in a single parent household so having two parents in my household would have been better than a single parent household yeah okay so do you have no relationship with your dad at all none at all okay well you're still the exception to the rule what about you iri would you would you say that if you had two of the same sex parents the outcome would be exactly the same for you i don't see why not you don't see what you wouldn't miss your mom you don't think there was lessons that were imparted from the feminine that could not have been imparted from just the masculine there are other female role models in everyone's lives that they can look to whether it's teachers or counselors or coach on the team whatever what does it matter they're not your mom so you're telling me the person who tucks you in a bed at night has to be a man or a woman to make a difference i mean it's ridiculous yeah i think your mother or your father you're you're essentially saying again you're agreeing with the people i was just talking about that people are just interchangeable units we're just widgets there's no mothers and fathers they're just random uh units that's a very they're not interchangeable what is important is well he said it doesn't matter you could have um learned how much quality when at night and it's fine quality is regardless of gender right quality quality parents are it doesn't matter what gender that parent is if they are a quality parent yes you can have terrible parents you two are competent people but how many kids out there have terrible parents who are just dumb dumps and had terrible experiences life they would much rather have two competent people of the same sex than two idiots raising them i think can you do you disagree bring it back to the topic of the debate andy they just they just conceded the debate they did but who cares i still want to dive into this because i'm glad you two have decided they're telling us that um there's no woke agenda but there is no agenda there's no agenda there's no moms there's no dads it can just be anybody you can accept everything you everything is quality parents we don't want just anybody being able to decide who's a quality parent well you seem to have it all figured out so you tell us what makes a quality parents since it can only be a man and a woman what's so special about mom and dad i knew this discussion to bring it back on nature you you are proving the point we have won this debate because you've just conceded that yes we have a very woke agenda we don't think there needs to be moms or dads or any sort of boundaries any sort of limits any sort of um hierarchy nothing no structure everything is acceptable as long as it's not as long as everyone's saying when we say no hierarchy i r i said no limits no limits on any of it no limits anything is acceptable it's just there is still a hierarchy within a family with adults and children there's yes there's there is still structure well wait a second with adults and children that's not what the wokeys on the left say they are arguing now for child's rights they want children you're consent to things they want you're debating a strong man we're we're in front of you you're debating a figure a phantom figure we're right here in front of you so who are these wokeies what wokeies i'm a aoc in her instagram account 435 again agenda that's the point it's yeah so so let me dive into this with you i r i the wokeies are you the guy who said there's no limitations whatsoever on what you find acceptable meaning if 30 gay men decide to adopt one child right and put them up in a frat house with them in your opinion that's just fine right nothing wrong with that for me stardust may disagree but i think it'd be pretty base to have 30 parents think about all the experience that those people bring all the different skills all the different occupations all the different networks and what a kid what a kid you know we've done that right you know that's been tried have you ever heard of a kibitz in israel they give me a kibbutz yes i'm familiar with kibbutz is in israel yeah in the soviet union they had these mass commune uh communal child raising experiments as well and children starved and they died and there was massive rampant abuse it but those are professionals raising the kids that's the different those are professionals raising the kids those are not parents taking on the kids as their own these were no my mother grew up on a kibbutz i'm very familiar with the structure that was the greatest thing greatest point you could have made is the one you just made you're right they weren't the parents raising the kids right you need the maternal instinct of a mother and you need to have the the instincts of the father as well now you were about to say i was making a naturalistic fallacy earlier but i was not i was saying that nature already decided this in the fact that a man and a woman that's what it takes to breed out a child do you think because you believe in evolution that over millions of years that you were designed to be able to breed singularly with a woman uh in order for you to just leave your offspring for other men or to uh you know what what is it that you think how do you think that this came about exactly the dynamic family of two parents is not only the best but the best outcomes come from a working class family that has a a father who's working and a mother that stays at home there's no doubt that that's true i just want to make a quick point of clarification that i see parents and custodians as inter interchangeable i don't see any value in the parents versus custodians like a kid being adopted so but there's no woke agenda here he doesn't want to just completely just not an agenda fabric and reorganize it what happens what happens when somebody when one one or both of the parents die they these are actually they're actual real life outlier scenarios they're not outlier they're not outlier they're not outlier no actually back in the 19 i believe in the early 1900s um back when the nuclear family was so so uh it's such a a big thing which it really wasn't that big of a thing but a lot of there was a lot of mortality and a lot of people lost either either one or both parents by the age of how many is a lot stardust oh what do you mean well you said it's a lot i'm claiming it's outlier so so since you made an outlier if majority of children in the early 1900s well how many at least one parent by the age of 13 that is how many majority of children no that that can't be true in the early 1900s no that can't be true that the majority of children lost at least one parents can't be true this is all a giant distraction though from the point of the debate which is is there a woke agenda and you guys are sitting here arguing for extremely radical social reorganization thereby proving our point and we win the debate what is what is the radical is not a woke agenda and everything you've said what is the radical what is the radical i guess i'm missing where the radical social reorganization is maybe you can explain where that is so we can raise kids with 30 frat guys we can raise them with two gay guys we can raise them with uh any any combination of human beings as long as what there's not even a qualifier well and you know that it can be a situation the qualifier it needs to be that the parents are and i might disagree with with ira and the 30 men it like in one house raising one child it's an extreme example it's an extreme example but as a kid i would be i would be mixing up people's names but um but i think i think that the uh i think that the qualifiers that we want people to be quality parents right regardless of what their gender is regardless of what their race is regardless of all of these other factors though it is the most important thing is that that parent wants to be parent that parent is a quality parent that parent is giving their all to make sure that they can provide a good life for that child right but just randomly introducing all kinds of other people and situations and arrangements into the mix doesn't do that but that's not we don't want that that would be that would be a minute we don't want that we don't want random things introduced randomly into a kid's life that would not be stable for a child right you want stability for a child yeah if 30 guys want to adopt a kid all right let me just clarify my example 30 guys want to get together and adopt a kid and raise it in their front house then that's what i'm talking about i'm not talking about just dropping a kid off at a front house and somebody watches it once and that's not what i'm saying let me let me let me engage with andrew's andrew's point though can i engage with your point andrew you said back in the day we would mate with a woman and you would that would be the parents right that's what you said you would you would couple up with a woman right yeah so i think what about back in the day where like every male in the tribe probably mated with the woman nobody knows whose baby it is probably eight guys had sex with her before she was pregnant like and what happens in that case who's who's the father which tribe because i think you're lying and there wasn't very many tribes talking about civilized those type of things happened i didn't say that those things never happened but again you can point to every outlier example that you want in mass civilizations know those things generally didn't happen even amongst the pagans all right we have this thing still instilled in us called jealousy iri you know what that is right we still have like do you think that just in 2000 years human beings have decided uh to stop being jealous to stop being greedy to stop all of our base emotions come on man well you said you said you believe in evolution i'm going all the way back to when we were first starting to develop who we are as homo sapiens and i'm saying we probably all mated with each other and somebody got pregnant like no any clue whose child it was i don't care about probably people need to be interchangeable what you're talking about right now but you don't care about probably to your hope first off it was not an outlier that people would die right the parents of children would die right so that those children would need to be taken care of other family members you said well in the early 1900s yes and even prior to that i would say that yes like a lot of children lost parents at an early age and so they would be raised by one parent or they would be they would be going to work at an early age and unfortunately that was what it was people died much earlier was that was obviously was not obviously was not but wait a minute wait a minute just because just because uh that i'm using that it's not optimal but that is an example of why having different parents of different genders shouldn't be a huge deal as long as those parents are quality parents there are studies that show that children with same-sex parents um report no different outcomes from from um children of of the of different sex parents um and so i mean like wait there's a huge difference in outcome that you guys never indicate which is hugely problematic which is that we're facing a worldwide an existential birth rate crisis and how is it that you expect homosexuals to breed exactly they're homosexuals they don't breed stardust and if you're and you're introducing this where's the promotion hang on you're introducing this via promotion into society you're promoting that lgbtq agenda as fast as possible and i'll give you examples you've introduced gay marriage and you try to get it past as fast as you possibly could there's rainbows all over the white house under obama everywhere that you look the radical lgbtq agenda is being promoted over the uh norma hedronormative societal structure and you say it's both and i say that you want to do it at the expense of because you only promote one of these things you don't promote both of these things every time you promote something like you said in your definition of what lochism is every time you promote something you're only promoting it for what you consider marginalized groups not for normative uh or hedronormative families you don't promote that you only promote the family was never the nuclear family the normative family was never the nuclear family that we already have gone through that was a privilege that was afforded to very few definition for us we don't care but we're talking about two polyamorous uh neurodivergent transgender furries hiring people to be surrogates for their their uh non-binary transgender this is a very america centric view this is a very america centric view you both know that birth rates are falling worldwide right that should be in in that should be indicative in fact because in majority the world um homosexuality is not something that's embraced in the majority of the world lgbtq um people are not embraced that should be in the west that should that should be that should be indicative that should be indicative of the fact that the birth rate falling has nothing to do with the lgbtq people it has more to do with people who are um becoming more educated people who um who uh are achieving more wealth just tend to have less children okay so you don't think that 21 percent 21 percent of the next generation being lgbtq that's going to do nothing to harm the birth rate just because people are getting more educated right stardust is that really the argument that you're making right now 21 percent can still adopt right okay so children somebody has to be the maker who's making not everybody is gay and that's not everybody's gay in there's bisexual and trans people can have kids but landry let me ask you a question would you rather have a mom and a dad who are drug addicts heroin users raising a kid than two guys who have science degrees it's a false dichotomy no it's not it's not you're saying the value hold on hold on hold on you're saying the value of a mom and dad outweighs anything so you're telling me you'd rather have two drug-using drug-abusing people raising a kid two solid gay parents really so so let me answer this question for you my answer would be no but let me turn the question back on you with a simple bifurcation to okay if the world was going to explode tomorrow okay would you stick your penis in a man's butt okay so you're you're saying that my example no no no answer my question it's an important question hold on if the world I just want to be sure tomorrow I I just want to ask for clarification I want to make sure that I'm I'm reading this right you are equating my question of two drug-addicted parents mom and dad raising a kid instead of two gay people to the world's going to explode am I going to stick my genitalia into something okay so you're telling me that's not happening in america right now here's the here's the trick to a bifurcation just so you know uh I'm really important you present it as you can only have this thing or this thing when there's actually hundreds of other options hundreds of other options okay but you only present it as this or this so you say if it was a bunch of drug well why didn't you present that the state could seize the child why didn't you present that there might be other family members who could take the child why didn't you present any of the hundreds of other realistic scenarios that's fine and that's why I say okay well then I'll give you just as an absurd a bifurcation and ask you this so answer that for me with a yes or no like I answered yours would you stick your genitals in a man's butt in order to stop the world from exploding yes okay and I'm straight as a ruler I'm straight as a ruler I don't know if I could get it up I might need some help but I I would do it yes do you see the point though he's saying you presented a false choice you can't say okay that's fine or terrible seeing the child would still be worse for the child than having two loving parents even if they're same size and I would say I would say that like an example uh like um like another example like my life significant my life as a child significantly increased as soon as my father was not in the picture and it would have probably significantly increased regardless if I had a secondary a second parent right regardless of their gender right but regardless of that the the as soon as my father was out of the picture my life significantly increased um so so like we're talking about quality over quantity and if that quality is two same sex parents I would take that over any day over over um two terrible parents I would take that any day over the state um as a parent um I would take that any day because um because quality is what is needed for a child stability is what we need for a child we get your point okay Rachel let me let me intervene for just one second hey everyone we only have 10 minutes left submit your questions remember to at modern day debate and remember we're only at 90 likes right now but there is 284 people watching hit that like button for me share this with your friends subscribe to the channel presume guys go for it my point was going to be you don't you don't want me to drag out all my statistics about how you know gays have far higher rates of domestic violence lesbian couples have the highest rate of domestic violence that there is uh gay men have high rates of drug addiction depression anxiety much more so than straight couples kids who are you know raised by a mother and a father experience far less child abuse than any other at home situation I presented these um these statistics tons of times in debates it's not nobody really argues that it's true that I'd like to do the same we could do the same thing with races no wait would you support the same thing with races no the point here is to say that you have to have some kind of structure for society you have to have some normativity you cannot just dissolve all boundaries and say you know what you guys are talking about is having a pure like ultra utilitarian society where we go as long as everyone's nice just do whatever you want because that's not real life that's not how it works when you dissolve boundaries and you get rid of normativity and you get rid of structure and you get rid of um like a moral normative situation you end up with more and more deviancy more depression more just more degeneracy in general worse outcomes all around so I have a question that just dissolving all the boundaries is going to fix things is completely wrong and backwards and they've tried this in certain parts of the world in certain times and it has been disastrous every time and results in massive amounts of people dying I have a question if you if the statistics showed that based on a certain race a group of people were far more likely to have abuse in their households you would you prevent them would you prevent them from having children absolutely not you miss you didn't listen to the thing I just said which is there has to be a normative structure to society you cannot just say anything goes that doesn't fix things the left Rachel think that getting rid of rules fixes things we'll just get rid of the laws and then there won't be any criminals is essentially the thought process here okay give iris some time to respond to that go for it ira I I just want to say I I'm willing to bet there's tons of other factors that contribute to bad households or whatever and you you have found a scenario where you're pointing to the structure of the family but I'm sure there's tons of other variables that affect whether or not domestic abuse happens or drug use or whatever or depression I mean really you're gonna to blame the the who's in charge of the kids for whether or not they're depressed as the entire source I mean come on this is crazy there's so many of them yeah it's a pretty big source it's a big source and listen I'll give them some time to finish let ira finish ira I just going there there could be tons of other external factors and you're completely discounting them and simply saying that it's the parents that are fully to blame for these kids having more depression or what not who knows what the the variables are here I do would you like to know because this is my area of study I have an entire folder here I can drop all the links but I can just rattle some off the top of my head if you want some statistics proving that this is true I mean what I would ask is is again like what if somebody said to you there needs to be rules and and and let's say there were statistics out saying that mixed-race marriages produced worse outcomes for children would you be against barring mixed-race marriages if that meant that those children had worse outcomes so are you saying then are you asking this question this way if we had scientific proof that it was the race that caused it if you had scientific proof not that the race caused it but you're saying okay well then wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute statistic you were saying statistically certain groups LGBTQ groups are more likely to have certain problems in their families and we're saying it's because they're LGBTQ you see how that works now are you getting there smart us did the light bulb go off because it's because they're LGBTQ I I bet you I could find statistics that show that a household that doesn't have a dog has more depression in it I mean what do you you can find any statistics to back up what you want to say for a household if it was based on okay sure you know what if it was based on race if you said if you could find out that you trust the riots right if you found out that because a couple was mixed-race and they because of the mixed-race couple their child had a worse outcome would you bar mixed-race couples one more time I'm just going to ask you the most important part which is are you saying that the outcome is based on the fact that they're mixed-race and you have scientific evidence that it's that the proof is their race it's the scientific evidence is specifically saying that if you're born this race no matter what there's going to be worse outcomes for the kids if you're born this race and you get with a different race no matter what the outcome will be worse for those children yes that's that's what I'm saying but just just so that we're clear because I need this I need to make sure before I answer this that we're as concise as we can be so the science is saying that you being this race is the factor not poverty not external factors not anything else it's literally just the genetics of this race the nature of the relationship right the you being this race and the partner being a different race is no well no because this then that would indicate other factors besides the race that's why I'm asking you over and over and over again is the scientific indicator that the genetics of the race or what's causing that and if the answer is no then we wouldn't be for it is the scientific indicator that the genetics of somebody being gay is producing the worst outcome and we don't need that because we can still look at behaviors right and say that these these judgment specifically to specifically to this particular group and then it's not an immutable characteristic it's a choice they can change those things yes if you're saying that it's a choice for them that to enter this same sex relationship and have a child and because of that choice they are producing worse outcomes for that child yes you not say the same thing about an interracial couple right they are making the choice to participate in an interracial marriage and they are producing worse outcomes for that child how would you not because it's not the same because it's not how would it not be the same hang on because it's not it's due to the choice that they're making no they don't have to choose to be in that relationship hang on it can't be by your formula we can we know for sure stardust logically right that your race is an immutable characteristic and that being an lgbtq person is not right your race is in is an immutable characteristic but entering that is not a choice stardust entering a relationship with somebody else of a different race is still a choice well that's true but whatever is the contributing factor causing those outcomes can't be the race whereas it could be the sexuality it could be yes and this is the sexuality too no it's not beside the point it's not beside the point because this is the sexuality too you're making the choice to enter a relationship with somebody of a different race than you and you're providing a worse outcome for your children as a result of that but it can't be due to the race because you said that it's due to the sexuality you said it has to be external factors it's due to the sexuality you said but we're making the claim it's not it's analogous external factors what are you talking about you're completing two different things totally and completely let me play your game a little bit here so rachel has statistics that show that kids in same-sex couples or whatever households have more depression right rachel that's what you were saying i have statistics showing that the mother father biological parents being married and having children is by far the healthiest situation for children on all metrics that they look at okay so let's let's just say then that one of the variable one of the conclusions of that study was that kids that are brought up by same-sex couples suffer from more depression okay i don't think that's an unfair conclusion to make based on what you're saying what what people like i will say is well maybe what if the kid goes to school and hears that his parents are acceptable what if he never sees any examples of his well hold on let me just finish real quickly what if that kid goes to school okay i'm i'm telling i like alcohol abuse um rates of incarceration rates of child abuse it's things of that nature it's not like oh my gosh people are making fun of my two dads now i'm sad no it's like uh i'm being raised by two lesbian moms uh what you know and one of them's obviously not my mom it's my mom's girlfriend so mom kicked my dad out now my dad's gone i don't have my dad in my life i've got mom and her girlfriend and they have a much higher rate of abuse things like that i'm saying on average we're talking this debate is supposed to be like a broad thing we're not supposed to just focus on like this one little area we're talking about a woke agenda and i'm saying that we have tons of evidence that shows that to the extent that you try to dissolve and mess with a mother and a father being the biological parents of the children and raising them and the general structure of society that is healthy to the extent that you try to dissolve all those boundaries and get rid of all that structure and say anything goes we could just do whatever it's all it's all it's going to be better like your argument is that it's better that humanity is better with no rules no boundaries no limits we can just do whatever hey you know have five furry non-binary girlfriends who all have autism and it's fine you know it's like you could just pick anything what's wrong with five your hand in the hat and pick whatever you want it'll all turn out better somehow i'm gonna give you the last word on this and then we're gonna move into closing statements okay my last word will be what is wrong with five autistic furries raising kids i mean nothing if you have a woke agenda bro okay i think all right hey wonderful kids we're gonna settle it right there we're gonna move it into closing statements stardust i will let you go first and start us off go for you have six minutes okay so the same arguments that were just used for lgbtq um relationships raising children were the same uh arguments used for interracial couples raising children as well decades ago i think that the very fact that you can't answer the question um what would you do if the statistics showed that an interracial couple produced worse outcomes for for children and guess what that is sexuality because they are choosing to enter that interracial relationship um uh so what would you do if those if if if that produced worse outcomes would you bar them from being in a relationship the fact that our opponents couldn't even answer that question shows me that um either they're they're um unwilling to acknowledge that it is analogous because it is the same thing you are choosing to be in that relationship you were choosing to participate in that marriage or they um they're i don't know they're scared i'm not sure but i think that the woke agenda is not an agenda um woke ism again is just like a broad idea a movement and um people have been participating in this i in in this movement for a long time they have been for racial equality lgbtq equality gender equality for a long time and woke ism is just like the word for it today um i would say that uh again canceled culture is not um something that i would ever associate with woke ism because canceled culture is something that's been also around for a very long time and you can look at the satanic panic where people tried to um stop kids from playing dungeons and dragons because dungeons and dragons was such a dangerous game for people to play when the catholic church was abusing children um uh during the same time and nobody that admired that um i would say that um i would point at again billy holiday performing anti lynching songs um and the federal bureau narcotics was trying to stop her from doing that is that not a violation of freedom of speech is that not cancellation of some sort of way um disco demolition night disco represented the black gay parts of society and um and and disco demolition night was like a response to that right destroying all of these albums right book bannings even today in america so these are things that are cancellations or or um um like ways that people try to stifle freedom of speech and freedom of media um and we don't associate it with woke culture because it's never been about woke culture it's been about controlling um the opposition and trying to squash the opposition and um that being said um i don't support the censoring of anybody um left or right or center and i think that to um combat that we we should acknowledge that this is not something that's part of of woke culture awesome in iri can you give us your closing statement yeah i'll try to keep it real short here but i see what the problem is here uh rachel had identified that our goal is to break up the nuclear family as we stated multiple multiple times before we lost the debate according to them 20 minutes ago we have no intention of dissolving the nuclear family or the mom dad structure if that's what you want to do with your life awesome we just want to expand what a family means to give more kids a chance that's it we just want more kids to be raised by loving people whether it's a mom and a dad two dads five furries with autism i don't care but i think that plenty of arrangements are capable of raising kids and sending them off to be wonderful citizens and as finally as far as like depression or drug use or alcohol abuse or whatever vice you want to you want to point to and associate with the mom and dad i have a feeling there's a lot of other things in life that are much more responsible for that including social media use and these cell phones these computers in our pockets and um the way kids are talked about in schools now and what they have to deal with with school i think we should look much much wider than just who's tucking them into bed at night and putting a plate of food on there on the table i mean give me a break there's so many other ways that kids interact with the world and you guys are absolutely obsessed with the two people that are in their houses if that will solve all the problems i guarantee you if you got rid of if you got rid of the ability for families to be anything but a mom and dad you would still have a whole mess of problems you probably have even worse problems out there in the world but listen this has been a lot of fun i always appreciate talking to andrew and rachel it was a lot of fun to meet you and and get to debate with you thank you sir all right and rachel you want to go with your closing statement sure so this whole debate was just ever so slightly frustrating for me because i felt like the broader the breadth of the topic was not addressed i felt like we stayed in weird little pockets um when my whole opening statement was about like i'm really important said it's much wider than that yes it is it's much wider than just the nuclear family that's why in the beginning i addressed things like private property you know just traditional governments nations borders all the different things that just represent having structure having limits having rule of law having material reality the woke agenda itself is about dissolving all of that people don't i think people don't understand that's why i tried to say it's not about republicans and democrats it's not about conservatives and and liberals it's about a much broader agenda that is about dissolving all boundaries erasing all boundaries and it that's why it has this spiritual underpinning and you need like a broader historical depth i think to see and understand that it's not about the current political climate it's not even about the last 100 years this is a much much bigger broader conversation which i know can be tough for people if you don't like look at everything from a zoomed out macro level but yes the woke agenda is about dissolving all these structures anything that puts a limitation on reality anything that keeps people grounded in in reality or um gives them limits to their behavior anything that says no there are certain things that are bad for you you know there are certain things that are morally wrong and we shouldn't do these things the woke agenda is about dissolving all of that it's about getting rid of that it's about making everything permissible it's about making everything okay to do and it's ultimately a very anti-human agenda because it results in things like depopulation um the metaverse getting the coom pod and eat the bugs is like you know people think that's a joke but again you can read what some of the most powerful people in the world write about and they think this would be a great thing this is what the woke agenda is it's much bigger than us politics and it's it's really about dissolving good and bad right and wrong and morality and all of the structures that kind of hold life together and create a stable environment for humans to live in it's about dissolving that so i wish we could have kind of like talked a little bit more about that but that's kind of you know that's not how these things go but it was still a fun conversation with both of you guys and i appreciate you andrew sir the floor is yours yeah so first let's start with stardust stardust says over and over in her closing statement that her question did not get answered when we answered it 30 different times but i'm going to answer it again the most coherent way it could possibly be answered and i'll literally draw it on a graph if she wants me to okay your argument premise is flawed what you're saying is is there scientific evidence that the race in this scenario genetically is what is causing the outcomes and the answer from you is no no it's not and i say okay and then you say what would you be against interracial couples based on their sexual orientation with each other due to their race because it would lead to worse outcomes it's a contradiction stardust if the race couldn't lead to worse outcomes because you said right in your premise that the race wasn't what was leading to the bad outcomes this is why it was flawed it was non analogous i can literally graph it out for you that's one okay do we're saying specifically to iris point that family expansion actually means disassociation we made the claim over and over that the promotion of one drains the resources from the optimal results from the other you're going to have to promote a certain standard for society certain lifestyles for society based on the resources that that society has and what i are what does i or i say sorry about that what does i or i say i or i says well we know whatever you want man whatever you want bro you know we you can you know just live and let live there's an endless amount of money there's an endless supply of resources we can promote every single value as a standard even though then there would be no standard if you had everything was permissible there is no more standard this was rachel's point the entire debates you're trying to eliminate the societal standards that is the woke agenda and you're like yes we do but we certainly didn't concede the debate even though we totally conceded the debate by admitting that that was true okay they clearly didn't coordinate with each other they clearly didn't have any conversations beforehand because they uh disagreed with each other on what woke even meant they disagreed with each other's points at multiple times during the debate they didn't engage at all they just made up to absurdities demanded that we answer to them and then i showed them how uh how well that works when you just make up absurd things because you just throw it right back in the opponent's face uh so to end this we proved that there is a woke agenda we pushed in on what that meant our opponents could not even grasp together what they thought a woke agenda would even mean or what woke by definition even was they had two competing definitions so i mean right from the outset the entire debate was a mess because to be honest with you they just don't know what the hell they're talking about and we did and that's really to just you know kind of cut it off right there how this debate went all right thank you both sides for presenting your arguments we thank you so much for coming on to the channel once again james thank you for letting me step in and moderate at this time we're going to switch over into audience questions now i was going through during the debate a lot of the questions and they're mixed in some statements so what i'll do is i'll throw out a question allow our debaters have it and then i'm going to throw in a statement from the superchatters because there was a lot of statements that had super chats next to it so first one will go from neon noir who donated ten dollars we appreciate your donation so much saying based modern debate we so much thank you for your donation and your support on this channel the first question for two dollars from david is how old do you have to be to have a stacey abrams poster that's well yeah you have to be 18 years old i believe to donate to a campaign so i would say you probably have to be at least 18 years old that and and put some respect on that woman's name that's the next governor of georgia stacey abrams to you champ gross god and you don't even know how to spell stacey's name it's on my god damn wall you freaking genius next one comes from steven mulaney or mul rainy for five dollars we appreciate you sir pulling women out of home out of the home isn't an attack on the nuclear family question mark question to stardust yes the um the nuclear family was something that was afforded to a a small group of people who were very privileged to have that and oftentimes they had the assistance of women out who were already working outside of the home who would come and assist with them in the house things like that you can look back even further at more traditional families and um uh earlier than that a lot of the time um the average working person um was working and that means male or female um so if you were maybe like upper class uh or in some cases upper middle class you could afford to do that have the wife at home um but even then oftentimes um there there there was like a pretty bad issue where a lot of these wives stuck at home were um seeing psychiatrists um and they were like being prescribed um all sorts of things to uh to deal with the stresses that they had being at home so yeah next one oh do you guys want to interact with that one at all rachel or i don't know if we'll be able to get to the super chats if we don't keep them concise yeah we yeah you guys are right yeah uh jack walley for ten dollars the right wingers should try developing a moral system that's based something on other than uh pure faith well that's great we we because we do we do have a moral system that's based on something other than pure faith and it's called christian ethics okay even you a person who doesn't believe at all in christ can still follow christian ethics to a degree okay so we do have a moral system sorry i'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news yeah for some reason the hedonists and utilitarians all think that if you're not a hedonist that that means you have no moral system i have no idea why but you should look into deontological ethics because we do have a moral system i don't know what the hell you're talking about yeah we andrew and i both although we are christians if unless we're explicitly debating like theology we tend to use secular argumentation we'll use things like logic reason statistics things like that to make our point we don't just rely on we don't make faith-based arguments so just the fact that we are christians does not mean that we just believe in some um metaphysical thing we can't ground and just go from there that's the opposite of what we do so you should watch some of our other debates if you want to see how we do that all right next one coming from mark for ten dollars everyone stop talking over uh each other have a level of decorum you have to show each other a uh you know a little bit of respect for you to get your point across otherwise don't agree to the debate disagree and move uh oh all right disagree to the debate also start us come better prepared start us do you want to respond to that obviously that's a shot at you yeah i i don't know what to say i i i have two uh google docs outlined but you know yeah i'll come better prepared next time i feel like artist came pretty prepared actually um i'm not like on her team or anything but i felt like she was pretty prepared and stop you know being a caring about stuff mark but thanks for your super chat and thanks for watching yes thank you mark for the super chat even if you were wrong and i appreciate that rachel gotcha next one comes from louis to start us and iri all other uh things being equal does homo parenting or hetero parenting lead to better life outcomes of the child from the studies that i've seen it says um um all other things being equal um uh same sex couples and and um and opposite sex couples have the same outcomes for children but that's what i'm seeing i think it comes down to having love in your life and people that care about you and people that can share values and uh their experiences and put you on the right path and i don't care if it's again five autistic furries doing that or a man and a woman i'm gonna find the right path when you got 30 frat dads i think that's base that's a lot of life experience i mean imagine 30 people were dedicated to raising two kids that'd be incredible what are you talking about no it wouldn't they wouldn't agree of course they would if they all signed up for they would necessarily contradict each other do you know how how hard it is to have two parents on the same page let alone 30 frat dads or five parties i've participated in it paid it in raids in world of warcraft and we all got on the same page of more people than that okay and we slayed those beasts and we got that magic armor yeah with a whole bunch of discombobulation and disagreement and one asshole named lee roey jankins pulling them off everybody so shut up lee roey jankins doesn't look lee roey jankins can't stand today lee roey jankins has his parental right to provoke sorry listen did you guys not hear mark five minutes ago Jesus have some decorum all right next one coming from brandon hanson for five dollars thank you sir all left slash woke people follow the same line in regards to the woke agenda it's not happening but if it's actually a good thing but if it is it's actually a good thing any responses to that obviously that's to the left side of the panel uh not really like i don't really i hear you that was more of a statement and then the next one comes here's my here's my response cool story bro next one coming from jd do you agree that egalitarianism will abolish the parent child distinction by revealing that humans are being discriminated on the basis of their age and development that's obviously to the left side of the panel um i think that uh i i think that the distinction like not all hierarchies need to be like you know abolished i think this distinction is is a needed one um and children are like unexperienced and need guidance in the world and so i don't think the parent child distinction will be abolished and if it is that would be ridiculous and really dumb so that is a weird thing to even think about like what you want a baby to like be on equal terms with a grown person it makes no sense to me unless i'm missing against babies are you saying babies can't be good parents well they don't have that look so i will say that wait there are limits and a meritocracy look at a meritocracy that baby hasn't earned its right okay gosh it next point i would be down for that i thought he'd be like no limits oh a baby they can't adopt a baby next one coming from steve mull mull rainy for five dollars um or oh relatedness has nothing to do with the biology of cooperation question mark of course it does it's absurd on its face who has a greater stake in the welfare of a child than the people that you know i've carried five children for nine months each and birth them you have quite a mistake in ensuring that they survive and do well and um you know bonding hormones and all that i think some people like i think some people um adoptive parents i don't want to ever um diminish the um the good that adoptive parents can you can put in a in a child's life i think it's very very important that we encourage people to adopt regardless of biological relatedness you can have a bond with that child and you can raise that child and you can have a very meaningful relationship with that child i'm not saying you can't i'm just saying that the the experiments that were done in communal raising of children over the last century proved it did not work and even the people who uh came up with these ideas and implemented them they had to stop the experiments like in the soviet union they they changed their laws on how they reorganize the family within seven years of doing it because it was such a disaster and same thing in israel the people who were raised in the kibbutz uh however you see that i'm not with my western accent they all say that it was a very traumatic experience being raised that way that it didn't work it was bad the parents said it was bad we it's never been done where we do this like anybody can just raise a baby and as long as they're nice to it it works out great like it just doesn't bear out in reality i'm not saying adoption can't work but that again is like parents adopting a baby bonding with it early on raising it as their own child it's not just communal raising or whoever raising type of a situation gotcha next question comes from brandon hanson for uh ten dollars thank you sir uh i r i slash stardust the hardest thing a child can do is forgive their parents it's hard to raise a child and make everything work if you forgive them you will have a much better relationship with them true or false they cut off the last part of that question well i think that um holding a grudge whether it's between a child and a parent or an old friend is a poison that only affects you so if you can move on with your life and forgive someone for doing something to you then i i think it's worth it for your own sake but i'm not going to tell anybody what to do with their relationship with their parents i think you can forgive and and uh still choose to move on with your life so and i think that's a very healthy thing to do true all right next question comes from l d ron start us can you hold a rally saying uh saying straight traditional family pride without getting demonized by the system slash public eye today i actually do think you could i think you could if you maybe not straight but putting it as traditional family yes i think you could i think that we already glorify the traditional family um uh in a lot of ways and media um and in the past past decades um a lot of people will say that um companies today are playing into the woke agenda or whatever um or until like woke culture or whatever um i would say in the past decades a lot of companies were playing into the um into the whole um glorification of the traditional family and they would center a lot of their ads around that so kind of and in uh joe schwan's for two dollars for both all panelists uh what is your favorite video game and why oh no i'm gonna get roasted so bad because i don't play video games i play one video game and i play it with my 13-year-old daughter and it's mario party that's a good game though that's a very good game but it's not like you know gamers are gonna hear that and be like whoo okay how you guys can be cool games i think that was a that was one of the epic games back in the day that's what started it off right ira wait which game mario party i i i mean i played like golden i back in the day but i uh i don't play any games at all i play real life more fun gotcha what it okay so you answer the question what is your game of choice me yes i live my life i don't need to be a character in a video game getting levels up and stuff i have no joy in video games at all i don't play any oh nice me neither i cut it off later grown man over here how about you andrew do you still play video games or have you thrown every console out i do i play them all the time so i guess my favorite series would be the total war series uh but probably the funnest one to play right now that i found is project zomboid zomboid cool all right and we're fresh out of questions there and we still have 18 minutes on the clock so i actually uh noticed everybody thought we got drowned into like the child area of the conversation if we can use this last 18 minutes what would you say is the area where you wanted to talk more about uh i don't want to take up the whole thing so you guys go i i don't know children seem to be a big part of like woke ism or whatever people attacking it so it seems like that was kind of a natural thing maybe getting outside the house maybe let's what can we talk about businesses maybe a little more and like this whole idea of businesses being woke maybe you guys want to play with that yeah um i'm i'm pretty anti-corporate for the most part like i'm not surprisingly you guys are probably used to debating a lot of like more neocon types um and i don't i think capitalism has plenty of flaws i'm not like over here um doing a shan hanity routine where i love my corporations and i want them to dominate everything and um all that i i think socialism marxism communism is all terrible but i think that com capitalism lends itself to usury and corporatocracy and and globalism so i think that the corporations being woke is kind of proof of that and i think that they they are woke and i think it's there are many corporations the more woke they are that aren't even profitable like they're not they don't even exist necessarily for profit it's at a certain point it's about more than money it's more about like the power and the hegemony and the ideology so i think that they're like um the big tech companies might be a good example of that well i mean look at elon musk basically purchasing twitter they did it for the money because they got a 30 percent profit on their stock i don't know what like if they were so in the shutting down free speech they just sold their company to a guy who says he wants to expand free speech and reel it back in so i don't understand like what he thinks that's going to be there well that's nice that that's what he says but uh you know he's he's been taking a lot of government money for an awful long time and he would be somebody that i would consider to be a global kind of in a pack with a global hegemonic billionaire class and i don't think that they have her best interests at heart even if he is buying up twitter and says it's for the purposes of expanding free speech while it may be true that we did see some significant changes quickly it looked to me like most of those changes were not to expand free speech but to cover the ass of people who have been lying to us for several years about uh shadow vans and things like this but i don't expect some great we await reawakening on twitter because some billionaire bought it up no i've been trying to warn my my right wing friends that this is not the victory that they think it is he is elon musk is a technocrat um he's an esotericist his baby mama is an absolute high level occultist they're raising their child like with it has like weird letters and numbers for names and it's non-gendered and he has a futuristic technocratic vision and i think that purchasing twitter is part of that vision i think he's going to use it to either gather data to influence um to further thing other projects like neural link that tends to be what he does he'll take a project and it doesn't even have to make a lot of money he'll get a bunch of other support to keep it afloat and then he'll use that to further a different project altogether which is a pretty common thing that you see like the globalists and stuff like that do so no i don't think it's the victory that a lot of people on the right think it is i know that they're like desperate for it like somebody prominent to be on their side and like let them say naughty words on the internet and things like that but i i don't think that it's the win that they think it is unfortunately i wish it was maybe i'm wrong i'm wrong ever the optimist the wilson's ever the optimist hey what brandon hanson gave you a good compliment here andrew and rachel are some of the most eloquent and rational people i've had the pleasure of listening to on this channel keep up the good work for five dollars hanson thank you so much sir that's very nice we appreciate that i'd like i'd like to think brandon meant to include stardust and i perhaps ran out of characters on the end there or something like that maybe character limit definitely well if i had to give you a compliment i know i'm not going to put any money behind it right now but i do respect anybody who walks into the arena with their face and actually makes an argument and stands behind what what they believe so i do commend you both for that and uh right now oh oh gee snoop had a question that came in that we missed it before sorry sir we'll field that now uh is it okay for a family to adopt if one parental unit is trans unit two is a dog unit three is a frost fryer what the frost fire fox what okay fire fire browser unit four browser unit four a baby unit five destiny and lastly a potato oh i think why did you make me fill this question i i think uh if it's destiny uh the content creator i think destiny is a fine father he's wealthy i think you do a great job as far as having a trans parent to join him on that journey i think uh i'm sure that they'd make a wonderful parent as many trans people do uh having a dog and whatever a frost fire fox and uh a baby part of it too sounds great sounds like a fun family that's all i can say there's my dog so yeah um james that's a good idea james coons if you're watching this i was reading all these questions i was making sure they were good ones oh gee snoops is a friend to the crucial so what he made me feel that i don't know what was going on please do not fire me he was trolling i do have a question um i do have a question if if you saw um corporations kind of like weaponizing um traditional family values as a as a like marketing um uh marketing avenue would you find problems with that as well well no so you're missing the point again right the point isn't rachel and andy hate corporations the point is to say that these types of industries need to have significant restraint put on them so that they don't run rampant as corporate oligarchical overlords who control our lives and can massively invest in whatever programs they choose to in order to socially engineer society to their own benefit and gains that's what we're saying so if you're saying oh this corporation down the road wants to promote a dad on a lawnmower to sell lawnmowers right and he has a beer in his hand and he has the wife behind him and kids do we have a problem with that no we don't have a problem with that that's just fine it's great it's wonderful we're just talking about having some restraint on people who receive billions in tax breaks or millions in tax breaks uh from the federal government along with huge amounts of subsidies are able to form their own lobbying firms almost their own private military forces and having places like walmart be dealt with like their own nation uh by china in places like this that's what we're talking about by restraint understood uh this one comes from dan zamet and this is to the whole panel it sounds like why did every evolution produce masculine and effeminate characteristics in the normative little relationships that can produce offspring who's that directed to sounds like everybody because there was a moment in the debate where I remember a lot of uh you know i don't know why did evolution why do men have nipples you know what i mean like i don't know like why is the t spot for the man in the butt yeah like why i don't think it is and i don't believe in evolution so that's my two cents why do so many men like their butts um they're that spot in there i don't know like i i'm that's where the poop comes out and i'm not into that boy are you hanging out with star i'm not hanging out with any boys i don't hang out with boys i don't hang out with anybody oh that's right you know where their g spot is stardust yeah let's move forward start up what are the what's your name for the men that you want to get rid of okay so they call us phenoids right that's like the that's the joking thing that yeah so i say peanuts yeah so i think the peanuts yeah log off peanuts yeah i do think all right brandon hansen making it rain tonight another five dollars stardust why is it a problem to weaponize a good thing um are they asking in regards to like the weaponization of the of the image of a traditional family i think um i think a lot of people are um are discontent with like woke uh corporations because they feel it's disingenuous and i would assume that they would find that um the weaponization of the traditional family as a marketing material would be disingenuous as well got it all right i'm not seeing any more questions come up and i think this might be a good time to close we don't have eight minutes left is there anything you guys wanted to just park uh parting words on do you guys want to plug each other's channels that way you can just say uh goodbye to everybody in a proper fashion yeah yeah i'll go i'll go first so my name is andrew wilson i am the uh host of the crucible uh padro is my co-host uh you can find us on the crucible uh either i'll be moderating debate or he will or some combination there of perhaps both of us we we often have debates we have live gas we have jesse lee peterson coming shortly we just are always doing something um fun for you you guys to check out almost every single night i appreciate my debate opponents i'm really important and start us both of whom the wilson's have a good relationship with even if we do have these types of debates where we absolutely have to mop the floor with them because it's good for them um we are still gonna part on good terms and we appreciate it guys oh okay and then let's mix it up start us do you want to plug yourself sure um i uh i'm start us you can find me on twitch or on youtube um and i um i also am on twitter um but uh yeah find me wherever um i appreciate also being able to debate tonight and um i appreciate uh andrew and rachel allowing us to um completely hammer them into the ground um i understand it's it's not it's not the most pleasant thing but i have fun you guys have fun so yeah so it's a good time and thank you iri for partnering with me all right and then rachel you want to send off everybody yeah uh i don't have a show and i don't do streams i just um occasionally do debates and go on other people's streams um but i do have a book it's called occult feminism the secret history of women's liberation it's got some fun wild stuff in there y'all should read it um and thank you to my handsome husband for um being my debate partner and thanks to stardust and i'm really important for letting us crush you we love you anyway all right and iri awesome so i go by i'm really important there's no apostrophe on there twitch.tv slash i'm really important if you couldn't tell by all the crazy posters behind me i am obsessed with electoral politics so that's what we talk about my channel what's going on in capitol hill with all the pokemon there like marjorie taylor green and biden and we've got the midterms coming up we have the january sixth public hearings coming up roe v wade might get overturned by the supreme court i'm sure much to the light of our debate opponents over here let's go come by we're having a lot of fun over here i'm a forever forever an optimist when it comes to politics and what we can do with this country i had a blast as always hanging out with uh andrew and rachel i never i haven't met atrial but rachel before but it was great to uh debate with both of you guys stardust always lovely appreciate you picking me to be your debate partner and patryl wonderful job filling in i hope you get to moderate a lot more debates here on modern day debates and and just to the youtube yeah into the youtube chat i trust me i was trying to trigger you guys half the time so i hope you guys had fun raging at me yeah so i i did want to just add one quick thing before you close it down patryl that iri does seem to be the last political twitch streamer that does politics so that that is something like just so that you guys know i've been all over twitch right and he's he's literally the only one that's ever talking about politics and the rest of them are always talking about you know who who destiny's in a sexual relationship with them usually so i would uh i would go actually check it out because he actually does do politics awesome thank you i appreciate that right and uh thank you my name is page row i am from the crucible like i said andrew's actually my business partner it was a total joke at the opening we do know him we go away but well we pretty much go way back now we're good friends and uh yeah i hope uh like this comment that i have up that i for the rest of everybody in the audience did a good job and james coon uh looks at my little trial run here and brings me back because i very much enjoyed this um ladies and gentlemen this is modern day debate we thank you so much for coming to the channel remember to like the video share it with your friends on your social media and most importantly subscribe if you feel like you want to support this channel and help it grow uh yeah we don't do copromotes in this business that much but i'm i'm happy to say i i think this channel should grow and be more uh i don't know how how you would say it it should be more no place where you can have a debate and hey