 Okay. Okay. Thank you. All right. I. First of all, thank you again for taking this time on a Friday afternoon. It is April 5th. This is a meeting of the budget coordinating group, a group that includes representatives from town council, the school committee and the Jones library trustees. The open meeting law allows us to hold this meeting remotely without a quorum of anybody physically present in the meeting location, as long as we provide adequate access, which we are during zoom and by phone. Given that we have a quorum of BCG present, I'm calling the April 5th meeting to order. I'm going to call upon those people that are present and we will continue to monitor for additional people. As we move through the meeting. Councilor Hanakie present. Lynn Griezmer is present. Councilor Lord. Present. Okay. And from the school committee. Bridget Heinz. Here. Oh, and Irv Rhodes. Present. And from the library trustees, Bob Pam. Present. Did I miss anybody? I want to also make sure that Sandy puller and Jennifer LaFontaine can hear us. Sandy. And Jennifer. Great. We. The superintendent of schools was invited to this meeting. I have not received a confirmation one way or another as to whether he plans to attend. And I. So therefore I am going to ask that we share the presentation that we're shared at the council meeting. If you don't have it handy, I do. So whatever you would like to do. Yeah, please go ahead. I'm entering. Okay. Now she tells me. You need to give me permission. Thank you. All right. So this is the budget presentation that was made by the superintendent of schools on Monday night. Sarah best to the town council, Sarah best Kenny. The chair of the regional school committee was also there. And Sarah Marshall was there as well. And I do want to note that Sarah Marshall is in the audience. And if we want to ask questions of her, we can bring her in. She is actually not a member of this committee by vote of her body, but we certainly can take advantage of her being here. So basically, this was the general discussion. That the superintendent gave us showing particularly why there's some inflationary issues. I'm not going to read the screen. I'm going to agree that you can all read it. I'm going to move on unless somebody tells me they need more time. So here, Bob, did you want more time? Okay. So here we have basically where the various adjustments were made. The very top of this is adjustments that were made by moving things to other accounts. The lower portion is where other adjustments were made. Lynn, but we're looking at right now the one that was not voted by the region. Thank you. Correct. This was the one that would come in within the 4% that each of the towns have allocated. The school committee, however, then made an adjustment. They added money back in for a total of $941,975. That leaves the level services at 700. I can't read it. Sorry. 747,000. That's to this budget, which is now the budget that the school committee, the regional school committee voted to advance to the town of Amherst and to the other three municipalities. In this case, it still does not cover what they refer to as their level of services. It's still 747,000 shy of level services, but it does include the 941,000 added back in. And then this actually gets to the issue of the actual payroll and expenses and how that works through. This of course begins to be the most interesting part, particularly for each of the individual towns, because it begins to show and break out what the cost would be for the new budget. And we see a guardrails that moves up to 8.2%. And then he did talk about capital projects. We can spend some time on that. But I think most of the discussion is really about the operating budget. So, Athena, I'm going to ask that we add this to the packet for today's meeting so that all people can have access to it. Did anybody else join and I know I Sharon Cherry, how are you. Hey, everybody. Okay. I do want to mention that this is what we do know in terms of schedule. We do know that the Amherstown council is going to hold a hearing regarding the budget as required by our charter. And that hearing will be on April 25 at 630. It will be on zoom. It will be at five. It's changed. You're right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And it's the finance committee that's required. Finance committee hearing, although the rest of the town council is being invited. And then. The town council itself will vote, but only after we receive a. I think it's going to be as April 29, but more likely may six or even later. And to just clarify the town council does have up until the end of June to pass our to vote on the regional school budget. My understanding is the shoots, Barry and leverage are having their town meetings on April 27. And Pelham is meeting on May 11. Okay. So with that, I think we have two things we'd like to spend some time discussing, and then we will take public comment. First of all, we want to discuss questions about the budget or anything else related directly to the budget. We want to talk a little bit about what we would like to see at our four towns meeting, which is presently scheduled for April 20 at nine o'clock. And then we'll have public comment. So, I'm going to go back and look for raised hands. Okay, Councilor Hanna key. This is budget coordinating group. So the regional school committees request or voted budget now not even a request anymore in some sense they voted a budget 50% or 100% above the guideline increase of 4% they more than double that guideline increase. So I guess in a coordinating group where we tend to discuss, how do we deal with the, or how would we distribute the 2.9 million dollars in increase in revenue amongst the four main operating areas region, elementary town and library and the guidelines are currently equally at 4%. So I guess where the entities believe that double should come from. If it's going to be an operating budget increase should we be decreasing elementary school general government and library guidelines. If what are, what's this group's thoughts on options and I know we've got a couple of them. Of our finance staff here I'd love to see if they've got any if they've done any work on what such a approximately 700 plus thousand dollar decrease to the other three major areas elementary general government and library would look like in terms of staffing and services. Bridget. Before, before we get started into the specifics and I'm really interested in the specifics I guess just as one of the school committee members here who was present for, you know, all the people who came forward from the school, our room was overflowing on that who spoke about the damage it would do to implement these 14 teaching cuts. And how it would really just affect both the mission of our school district for excellence and our mission of our school difference for inclusiveness to implement these 14 teaching cuts that would have happened. We passed the, the 4% budget. I just wanted to put forward that that there was just a real strong feeling and and perspective that we couldn't meet the mission or goals of the institutions of the regional schools. If we passed the other budget. I also wanted to mention there are, you know, that 740 it's a it's still a huge cut to the schools. A million dollars total with three quarters of a million in operating and another the rest in the, in the capital budget so we felt like we really made is close to the bone cuts as we could in the schools especially in this time of crisis we all know, half the school committee left none of us, you know, herb is there there's a couple people who have done this before but most of the folks from Amherst are gone so we're just back at that. And we're going to have a new middle school principal and a new superintendent. We don't want to set them up for failure, especially given the crisis at the middle school one thing that was really striking to me and all the comments was with the with the proposed cuts with the bullying crisis that we have at the middle school, we would not even be able to have a supervised locker room for the gym classes under these cuts. I just want to point out one thing when we talk about sharing the cost. I don't know if any other department has a core staff in this case the core teaching staff that would be up for 12% of cuts, but this would mean if you've got 114 teachers at the two schools. The core staff was being cut by 12%. So I just want to sort of just add that context I know you heard from other people as well on Monday night, but I wasn't able to be there so I just wanted to make sure that those pieces behind our reasoning we're present as we enter the thing. I think we're looking for some way to share the pain, not just to pass off the pain, you know, so. Thank you I want to pause for a moment Andy Steinberg is on the screen but he's technically still in the audience and I want to know Athena can you bring him in please. He's on the phone but I renamed him. It looks like. Well, I allowed him to speak and that put him on the screen, but it didn't take him out of the audience. I'm going to bring in a caller as a panelist. Okay, all right. Andy, can you hear us. Yes, we can. So you are showing on the screen on zoom. And so we will assume that you are in the room and part of the meeting. And if you have, you've raised your hand, otherwise, would you like to go ahead and speak. Okay, right now your hand is raised. Okay. All right. Bridget, thank you for that and Mandy Joe thank you for your comments about BCG. Are there other comments from people at this time. Sandy. This is beat she's Jay and we talk about the needs and planning of all parts of the town. I'm going to offer a little bit of perspective on the town side of the budget. And also give you some of my two cents on some of the other issues related to the, to this financial situation. If I may, please. So the focus of finalizing the town budget with the 4% increase that we announced earlier in the year. I won't go into any of the specific details about what's being added or so forth, but I will say we're not adding positions. We just kind of cover costs and so forth. So we realize that there are constraints on what we would like to do we had over a million dollars and requests from department heads for additions and we've said no to most of them. And I think that is just indicative of the fact that there are always more good things and justifiable things that can be done. And then there is money to do it. That's just the nature of life under prop two and a half. So we've stick stuck within 4% and have lived within that. I've done some long term projections for the town. I'd say the town in general has an revenue increase from year to year between three and three and a half percent. That's the kind of town Amherst is. I mean, if we were a Cambridge, it would be a bigger number if we were Boston, it would be a different number, but that's the kind of town Amherst is. And so I think, speaking of needs and good programs, you have to keep that in mind in terms of what you say yes to. I have an opinion that the regional school district settled contracts and made other changes that had impact on their overall costs. They mentioned health insurance. They did not mention what the impact of their contracts are. But front and I haven't ever seen a forecast of what those contracts would be and how they would impact the town generally. And I think that's something that's sorely lacking. It's the kind of thing that should have been discussed at BCG. When those things went into effect, as opposed to just then presenting a higher budget and saying give us the money. This is not a unique problem. In the state, there are many school districts that are facing cuts. We all know about what's going on in Northampton. I read in the globe the other day that Brookline is going through the exact same thing and they are making cuts. So this is not unique to Amherst. It is an issue of having to balance your desire to provide services against your resources. And I would just say an 8% increase to the town for this. I don't have a source of money for that. In particular, you know, there's just no easy way to cut police officers or libraries hours or whatever to make up that difference. It's, it's a lot of money. I would also caution against thinking that we could use reserves because then you create as big a problem in the next year. As you have this year, but you're already behind by how much you've used for reserves years. You really need to use continuing revenue for continuing expenses. So I think that's the situation the town is in from where I see our funds and be happy to answer any questions that people have. Jennifer or Holly Drake, do you want to weigh in Jennifer just shook her head no and Holly stayed on mute so I guess not Holly hi. Go ahead. Can you hear me. We can. Again, I just want to, you know, mirror what Sandy said. There, there really is not a source of funds without making drastic cuts to the town's operating budget to give additional monies to the schools, our budget as it is being finalized now is pretty much a level service as Sandy stated there is very little money available to make any additions and changes. So, you know, reserves would be the only option and reserves, according to our policy are supposed to be for one time expenses, not continued expenses and operating budgets. So just mirroring what Sandy said. Um, her roads, please go ahead. This is this whole budget this year for the regional schools is a very painful thing. And most of you know that I voted against it. I was the only one to vote against it. Because I couldn't see where the funds were going to come from from the rest of the town. And I also know that if those funds came they would mean cuts in other areas of the budget for other other town departments. But I also realized that this is not a unique situation for us and amers during the schools because it's happening throughout the state. But also it's a, you know, it's a part and parcel of the use of Essar funds when they're available. And those funds dried up and left us with this deficit. Moreover, I believe that there are some structural areas within the regional schools in terms of finances that needs to be addressed in the very near future. Because this is something that's going to continue to happen. And there are some really difficult decisions and also some future planning that needs to take place with the region to come to grips with with the structural financial situation that we're in. And I have proposed and will be on a future agenda that the school, the regional schools in the four times come together as they did. And we put in the guardrails to look at other ways of coming up with revenue. Other possible structural issues that we need to face as we go forward in future years. And that that is something that really needs to be done there. The regional schools, especially the middle school group is an incredible problem that could hit us at any moment in time. And that is something that concerns me on a daily basis. When you have a roof that partially falls into a classroom and has to be cleared out by staff, including teachers. That is something that cannot continue to happen. And we cannot just rely on the hope that we will get a grant that will fix that. And that just that just begs for crisis management at that point in time. So I have I have no way of saying to the town and any good way that cuts should be made to other town departments and then have those town departments go through what the schools are going through. And believe me, I believe that our kids are a priority. And that all available resources should be brought to bear on this. But I cannot. And all good conscience say, hey, we should do it this year. And knowingly know that the following year will be even worse. Because we will, we will have to be dealing not only with going forward with this, but also the erasure of the essence funds that is propping up part of this budget this year. That will be there next year. I guess my plea is that the four towns come together to deal with this structural issue. And and be that the town of Amherst. Take a closer look at how this budget affects the rest of the parts of the town. And to look at the future budget budget years, especially the one following this. In terms of how the town can allocate additional funds. For the schools, realizing that yes, it will impact the other areas of the budget. But in my mind, we're going to have to find a way to support our kids. And, and we have to do it in a way that is equitable to all the other departments and find but still find a way to support our kids. Thank you. Bridget, your hand is up and but since you've spoken once, I'm going to go to Andy Steinberg and then come back to you. Andy, your hand is up. I appreciate everything that her just said, I just wanted to add one additional point that I think that we need to think about. But I think all schools, and Jesse needs to think about that is when you look at how our budget has gone each year before this year. We've always gotten into this situation where schools determine what it costs to have level services. And then revenue, even at the best of times, was inadequate to reach that point and cuts had to be made. They just were just dramatic in this year's cuts. So the other thing that I think we all need to be thinking about is what the long term solution is that school increases are greater than revenue increases on the regular basis. Okay. Thank you, Andy. Bridget. Well, I want to say it for stuff like I do. I fully agree with Andy like we need a long term strategy and on school committee. I really want us to see us have a budget. Committee, the budget folks just come out in January and then work on it right away. And we didn't even know what these cuts would mean until, until March for the school. So I feel like there needs to be long term and year round planning on the school committee, and especially with a strong focus on revenue. And I even have some ideas for that that I won't get into, but I'm hoping that the building revenue is a big part of the work that we do this year ahead. But I just wanted to clarify something that Sandy said, and I think, Holly, did they say that you all in all the other departments can fund the level services budget with no cuts or no positions cut, for us to get our level services budget, we have to cut 14 staff members out of the town as a whole, that would be 5%, but from the teaching staff, that's 12%. So I'm just wondering, like, are we the only department that ends up having to like, let people go on a level services budget. Sandy, do you want to answer that? Well, I would say that the town does not have to cut positions, but partly that's also because we've maintained our salary costs within the limits of what we are annually allocated. So we keep our costs down. I worry that what's happened is that the school contract is richer than the town can support without making cuts and may have been good reasons for signing that contract at the time, but I don't think there has been any real reckoning as to what that means. So the town regularly makes decisions from year to year to live within the allocations that it's traditionally gotten, and to do that by maintaining the services that citizens expect. I would also just like to add, I completely agree with what Bridget said about the need for long term planning. I think in all the BCG meetings I've been in since I've been here in the town this year, there's not been any discussion about what the town budget looks like three, four or five years from now. And I think that discussion really needs to happen to look at what our likely resources are, likely expenses, and to have some realistic expectations about what both those things are. So I think that's an excellent idea. Cindy, in some way I'm going to build on that. And I'm going to try not to be disjointed. First of all, I think there's no question we would all like to find a good solution. Okay. We also know that while there has been a transition in leadership in the schools at this critical moment, when planning could and should have been taking place. It didn't. And, but a couple things that really scare me about this and it is consistent with Sandy suggesting that, you know, we sit and as a group sometime in the near future, and we look at what the projections are going out in years to come. I remember exactly whether it's next year or the year after that the teacher contract comes up again for negotiation. And I'm sitting here going to excuse me yikes, because I do know that the one that was negotiated was at least a year overdue when it was finally settled. It's a three year contract. It means that people will understandably be looking for increases as well. Again, so, again, I don't know whether they start negotiations this year or they start negotiations very soon but I know it's less than three years away it's at least within the next two years if not the next year. The second thing is the predictions that we're getting out of chapter 70, which are horrifying, many, many school districts across the state are, they're just not good. They're, they're leaving us all feeling very vulnerable. And over half the school districts in Massachusetts are feeling that way. And many of us are letting our legislators know that and Amherst is clearly among those that are letting people know that. In fact, I happened to be in a room recently with the representative for Pelham and we talked about it for because Pelham's one of the other contributing towns. The other piece that keeps coming back for me and that is, no matter what happens, Amherst has to take, find the biggest amount of money, because we're about 80% of the school districts of the regional school districts budget. And so I don't suggest that Amherst should have more of a say, but I do think that we representing the various boards across Amherst need to have a more common understanding of financially of where we stand because Sandy, I, I may suggest that we have a BCG meeting we may have to have a BCG meeting anyway, as early as May, because of to look down the road, because we don't know where the different town meetings are going to come in. And frankly we don't know where the Amherst town council is going to come in. I want to go back to one other thing though and I this is a question back to Irv and Bridget, and that is initially when this discussion started. It was the idea that quote we would like a one year gift, and a gift doesn't go to the base, but the way that the school committee voted. It doesn't go to the base, and it becomes the base upon which next year's budget request happens. And so I love to have some sense I'm not suggesting I was ready to sign the check for the gift I can't do that anyway. I'm only one vote, but at least one of the other scary things about this is, it's not just an increase for this year. It's an increase for all the years to come, because it goes to the base. And I know this question came up on Monday night at the town council, and Doug confirmed that it did. And for those of us that have watched the assessment method for the last six years that certainly are understanding as well. It would be useful for me as a counselor in Amherst to understand what happened to the gift idea. And not again making any promises. Thank you. Councillor Hannock you have your hand. Yeah, to follow up on this conversation a couple of other things that come to mind. We need a plan, not just for as Sandy was saying a townwide plan for all four, I'm going to say four sort of departments although there's many within the town department but the four big ones that generally the guidelines reference. And what do those revenues look like and expenses look like and how does that affect going forward. But, but one of the concerns I've had is, I haven't seen a plan from the region. Knowing in the last three years as someone said it was coming. And I know the last year has been hard for the district in terms of leadership and, and crises and all, but I've been on the council five years and this cliff has been talked about for all five years so it's not like this is a surprise. Yet, it seems as if the request that is being made to us is because it feels like a surprise to to the region or something instead of a plan. The other thing that concerns me about everyone talking about a plan is they're all talking about a plan for increased revenues. I'm concerned. While. Yes, there might need to be a focus on increased revenues that that there is a focus to the exclusive of what can we do to strategize if revenues do not increase when chapter 70 stays near 0% increases year after year after year, which means the state aid is becoming less and less of both elementary and region budgets every year, you know, and so the assessments have to take on in some sense more and more and that strains everyone, you know, I fear there's not a willingness to look at the expense side of planning and what kind of plan is in place when revenues really can only increase three to three and a half percent a year from the assessment side at in Amherst and all. And then the other question that comes to mind is there was a guardrails put in place assessment methods are big but what what is the plan for four towns when you need four pounds to agree to an assessment method and three towns to agree to a budget. If. And I'll say if Amherst says we can go up 8%. But the other towns can't. You know, how is, is there a plan for if the four towns can't agree or can't come to some, some, you know, sort of compromise or agreement or whatever. I'd like to see some thought put into some of those things of how does that work. How does, you know, basically how does some of that work or what's the thought process of are we aiming for needing all four towns to agree and if that's the case. Each one town in some sense has massive amounts of power to frankly control a budget. At whatever level they want and and I so we need to be talking four towns wise and maybe more than just December and January every year, but. But we've never broached that potential problem before we've always been able to work it out when shoots very pushed us to move from a student. From a five year rolling average student assessment method to the statutory method which benefited shoots very tremendously, but frankly reduced the funding of the regional schools, if it was on a per student basis. It, it would have had slightly more money every year from some of my memory is looking at those charts when we were producing what's a 10% student and 90% statutory and a 5050 and this and that. When Amherst was kept at its guidance for the town, the regional total budget lessened the farther you got to statutory the guardrails lessen the budget and so I'd like to see us be talking about the consequences of those decisions to as a as a four towns. And just to build on that. We will know in May. Where we stand will know by maybe even before May 11, as to whether or not the regional school committee is going to have to go back to the drawing board. And because if one of the towns. Senator to Pellum says no or two towns say no, you're back to the drawing board and something has to give because you have to pass a budget. We have to pass a budget. And with your help, obviously, by the end of June, or you revert to the state method, which my understanding would mean even more drastic cuts starting July one, because it would be a 112 budget of this year's budget. Anyway, for anybody who listens to this now or later. This is not easily understood stuff so please ask questions. A regional school district is a complicated thing. Bob Pam, you have your hand up. I have not over the years been focused on the school budget so I'm when I say may or may not make any kind of sense to you. I am aware that that the governor has just imposed a hiring freeze at the state level because the government, the state budget has issues. The question is, it is now April. There's not a whole lot left to this school year or to this fiscal year. So whether there is going to be any possibility of some savings there, which then gets rolled over. I don't know exactly how the budget works for the school budgets. On a longer term kind of question, there are two things that just casual reading of the newspapers has occurred to me. One has to do with the millionaire tax which was imposed, which as I understand it, the governor and the legislature has essentially focused on higher education rather than on elementary and secondary education. That would seem to me to be one of those areas where rather than talking about additional money that is not currently available. It becomes a question of how much of the addition which is expected to come from that could be available for elementary and secondary education. The second is that in a previous life, I remember that that special ed has consistently been underfunded at larger levels at the federal level and the state levels. And the question is whether providing more on those particular issues would be more easily addressed at the state level than other kinds of issues. Obviously, there are the things that we have talked about over the years, which have to do with transportation, all of the things that make it more expensive to do in Western Massachusetts than it is elsewhere. All of these are perhaps part of a longer term discussion, but it just seems to me that these are kinds of things that probably ought to be at least on the agenda for discussion. Bob, we can add to the list, and many people have and that is that Amherst pays a whole lot more for students to go to charter schools than our next door neighbors, because it's based on our per pupil cost. So we're paying close to $20,000 a student to go to a charter school. And our next door neighbors are paying around 10 I think. And it's because that's, there's something broken about that formula. And yet there are people in our town and other towns who want to make sure charter schools continue. The other pieces that as even though charter schools are required to provide special ed services, they don't provide them at the level that the town of Amherst does. And so, when kids have special needs, they're frankly much better off remaining in the public school than going to a charter school, which again, our bill for the charter school this past year was over 2 million. Right there's the 1.7 you're looking for. So it's, there's got to be something where the state, and we regularly and whenever any of us meet with our state representative and senator, we regularly these these issues are on the list, but they're not going to get solved this year. That's the problem. They're not going to get solved in order for us to deal with this budget. So, are there any other comments at this time. Mandy Joe, I mean, sorry, Councillor Hanna key. So, so we've been talking a lot about the region budget. But I fear, looking ahead to FY 26 that the elementary school budget might be facing some similar difficulties because of its use of Essar funds in the FY 25 budget. So the planning that needs to go on at the region, I would, I would really like to see also at the elementary, I know there's some stuff coming like a new elementary school that will save on utilities and all that that could results in, or should be resulting in changes, such that difficulties in an FY 26 budget for the elementary school might literally only be one year, I don't know, but I think those projections out four or five years need to be done for the elementary schools to, given that in FY 27, there's going to be a huge change in services because of a consolidation of schools and the opening of a new school that is net zero and come combining, you know, staffing into those schools and more efficiencies that way. I think it's just as important to be doing that planning for the elementary school. And since I don't want to leave the library out the library's got a building opening in FY 27 too. So I think this five years sort of planning out for revenues and expenses could be very healthy for all four areas to be doing given the changes that are coming but you know, I don't want to be faced next May with an elementary school that asks for more than an elementary school budget that asks for more than 4% or 3% or whatever guidance might be next year to get them through a year and be begging for the same sort of planning documents that we're begging for now for the region. Bridget with your agreement I'm going to go to Sandy to see if he has a response to that and then come back to you, Sandy. Thank you. Actually, I don't have a response I will very quickly say what I wanted to say and just put on the table. I think one of the questions about long term planning that people have asked me about the school budgets and about the potential reduction in staff is that you have declining enrollment. And so in some sense it makes sense that you would have fewer teachers this year than you had last year than the year before. And I think in thinking about what a long term budget for the region and the elementary schools is that question about the effect of declining enrollment on staffing needs to be answered. Thank you. Bridget. I'm going to just throw out a couple things that maybe like speak back to the question I think one reason that we didn't ask for a gift is because looking ahead already at the inflation numbers and that year's budget they're looking at 1.9% for the state chapter funding funds which are nowhere near sort of like what we're getting and we're afraid that the gap for next year if we don't have a bigger base right now is going to be about 2.5 million. I did want to talk about something related to enrollment. I can just use the middle school as an example. The middle school has gone down from eight teams to four teaching teams. And in that same time that the teams, the teaching staff have literally gone down by half the school population has only gone down by I'm not exactly sure but it's somewhere about 10 to 12%. So when we see problems like we're seeing at the middle school, I think the teachers came to us and are really like not only is the quality of education suffering and some of these solutions that you're proposing with the cuts we've tried before and they were a miserable failure. But they're also saying that just the basic tenants of being able to supervise kids in a way that they're safe when you're cutting that many teaching staff was sort of a big thing. I wanted to talk for a minute about the other towns like Hadley. We know they have a different foundation or fiscal base but they just passed no budget cuts. Chick-a-pea on the contracts, they had to do mid-contract raises because they're such a teaching shortage right now. So we're just, I think all I'm adding are just like more details to understand why the schools are in such a difficult fiscal place. We have surrounding towns like Belcher Town or Northampton where their percent of the town budget is higher and it makes me think about like equality versus equity like this 4% idea for every department. That's an equality-based idea but if we really value education, we've got like free police officers per 100,000 residents but one guidance counselor for 240 with these cuts which is like right at the level that you could get federal grants for under-resourced schools. Like we're really just cutting to such a big point that it's short-sighted from an enrollment perspective to make these schools. If we've got these cuts, we've got the robust elementary language program and then very minimal language in the middle school out of these cuts. Like people, I had eight families come to me looking at these cuts and just be like, we're not going to come to the middle school if it's that. So that's all money then we're going to be sending out a district. And I'm just like trying to put a little context into the room because I think what you all are saying is really important. And one idea for revenue is to try and get some of those IRA funds because we've got $604,000 in electric and gas for the two buildings and there's federal money on the table right now that could help our operating budget year after year. But to come and make the top cuts at the teacher level, it's just really going to be devastating. I can't underestimate what we heard at that series of meetings or what people are coming to us with. So I just want to make sure we're clear with that and think how can we be more equitable across departments, you know what? So that we can say as a timely value education, we can't just say it, we have to actually be able to mean it or provide it to. And I just love to be in these long term conversations, because I do see a lot. I've been through the budget like line by line. I see a lot we could do, but this current budget just isn't sustainable for the schools. Other comments. Mindy Joe. I think you I don't see your hand. Oh, you just changed positions on my screen all of a sudden. So I assume your hand must have gone up. Thinking about a couple of things that have gone on in the conversation that I've heard. One of the things that started in the long term planning is we've been in this state public for hundreds of years, my life on this. We're not necessarily an efficient region by being a region with just different elementary schools. We would probably I'm a certain more efficient region. And she's very shot it down when we did it a number of years ago. We kind of want to empower that to work either in this conversation that they need to take place. We're really thinking about a long term solution. And it may be something that Amherst needs to arrange when there's an export town meeting, which is why it's worth bringing it up with the Amherst Group. The other thing that I was just reflecting on is that I've been listening is that as a member of the MFA physical policy committee, the future discussions that we're having on that level too. And it is not easy to solve because like everything else, there are winners and losers in every discussion. And when we talk about how our district and some of the other districts are suffering so badly, you know, it's sort of hard because of the Student Opportunity Act and, you know, the Student Opportunity Act. Districts are really suffering to provide the kind of education that a lot of other districts are providing, which is why the legislature went in the direction of instituting the act. But it does have everything that we do that has to do with somewhere else. And I don't, you know, I don't know if Sandy has any experience with this far longer service on that community as I've had, but I've been so convinced that, you know, it's a hopeful that we're going to be able to get to a solution very quickly if the problem is that we're in a crisis that calls for a new solution. Anyway, those were the things that I was thinking about as I've been listening. I'm trying to raise my hand so that I can recognize myself. What I'm about to say is not meant to be critical of any one individual, but Amherst voted in a huge percentage, I think second in the state for the millionaire's tax. And recognizing that we have one public higher ed institution in Massachusetts in our Commonwealth in our, you know, in town. I'm sure some of that would have been in support for that. My personal observation about the millionaire's tax is that it's being used by many for additional programs, not to support the basic programs that we already have and that really need these funds. And that's a terrible thing and a tough criticism to make. The one thing that they did for schools was lunch, the free lunch program. And while I understand the importance, absolutely the importance of food on the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, it comes only right under shelter. But the reality is, I'd be more than glad to pay for a couple kids school lunches, if they would just put it toward the basic core functioning of our budget. And I'm sorry to be so critical. Are there other comments. I'd like to spend a little time talking about our expectations at the four towns meeting. So the four towns meeting is scheduled for the 20th of April. For our finance committee meeting will have recommended made a recommendation. It's also before any of the town meetings will be held. One of the questions that has been raised by the schools who actually convene the meeting is whether or not we want to meet in person or on zoom. And one of the reasons to meet in person is because there's always the desire that we will caucus and somehow another miraculously come out of the caucus with a unified response that we're willing to share. And yet, at that point, I don't think any of us will feel we have any right to make any statement on behalf of anybody that we belong to about the budget that in some way would sound like a unified answer from Amherst. But that's just my tough opinion about trying to have a unified caucus statement. The only unified caucus statement that I can imagine is our finance committee has not made a recommendation and therefore the council, nor the school committee can act. I still think it's critically important for us to have a four towns meeting. But I'm not clear that the caucus will gather anything Mindy Joe or Councilor Hannity. So I am torn about all of this. April 20 is the last Saturday of April break. And so many families are not even in town so I actually fear that an in person meeting will have less attendance than a zoom because many people will probably have to be attending by zoom. But it's Google. You know, I personally cannot attend in person that day, I need a phone number I can call into to be able to attend I will be in the car at that time because it's so late scheduled and I have other commitments but you know that I'm just one person but given when it was scheduled for. I think it's already going to be hard to get a good representation of the four towns present. If we put it in person I think it's going to be even harder because I actually think many people will be out of town. And then the caucusing I've found that it's helpful but it's never long enough to really get a good conversation in so while we've lost some by not being able to caucus I'm not sure we've lost much. Thank you for those observations. Given what Mandy just said, in terms of the four towns meeting in the impact of the school break. And the possibility that there will be a work since it's going to be in person that a lot of people would not be able to attend. Is it possible to reschedule this meeting because this is a critical meeting that needs to be needs to be happy. I do know that different schedules were looked at by the superintendent and so forth and this was the date that was chosen we can certainly go back and ask. Again, I also observe that this may not be the last four towns meeting we're going to have to have this year because I mean this calendar this fiscal year because depending on the outcome of the different town meetings and the Amherst town council vote. You know we may have to have yet another four towns meeting sometime in April in May. I am hearing don't I'm hearing absolutely do it virtually that's number one thing I'm hearing. Second of all I'm hearing so far, but now I want to hear from others that the concept of caucus doesn't necessarily gain a lot Bridget. I can't speak for the superintendent but I did hear two things, you know so this is hearsay, but the information that the superintendent provided about the date was that this was the date that it had to be on related to the town meeting schedule of the other towns. So, I think that that's why we have it here in the second pieces that I know, or I heard that the superintendent's very much in favor of being able of us having just more, more latitude and more wiggle room if we have it in person so I think that those are the reasons behind the decisions that that we're looking at to have it in person, preferably have it on that date. No, thank you for sharing that. Sandy and Jennifer and Holly and I will go back and have that conversation with Dave Zomac who's the interim interim town manager right now. This is also, however, I just want to point out that it is at least our practice for the council and I think for the school committee as well as well as Jones library and that is that we like to provide access for people to be either in person or on zoom. So we would hopefully want to do the same in this case so people like counselor Hanna key can still join us, even though she can't be quote physically in a room someplace. So, and, and they're different platforms allow different things, but no platform that I'm aware of allows you to actually break into groups, whether it allows you to caucus in a way that the caucuses are open meetings is the problem. Because you can't. Anyway, that's my understanding of the technology at this time. Very quickly. I want to just look at something because I wrote down a few other questions about this particular event. And it's my assumption that the superintendent will make a presentation of the proposed budget and the assessment amounts as well as the capital budget and the assessment amounts. And other than that, I really have no sense of what is planned for that meeting. Are there any other any other feedback about the meeting that anybody would like to add. So if there is a group in person there, there needs to be a zoom option. There is no question about that. Okay. If not hearing anything else, I'm going to go to public comment and ask if there's anybody in the audience who would like to make public comment. Please raise your hand. I need to ask the person who is the last numbers on the phone or 0810 to please identify yourself and where you're from. And then we'll proceed. Yeah. Vincent O'Connor, I'm from Amherst 175 Summer Street. Please proceed Vince. Okay. I wanted to just ask a question whether the the meeting of the finance committee this Tuesday. The meeting is scheduled for April 25th at five o'clock. It will be on zoom. It is a hearing held by the finance committee, but all town counselors will be welcome to join in it. And it's only by zoom. It is going to be only by zoom. It's the finance committee meetings. They are only held by zoom. There, there was a question on Tuesday as to whether it might be hybrid or not. And so I'm going to go to public comment. I'm not sure if the meeting is scheduled for April 25th. But it's only by zoom. It's the finance committee meetings. They are only held by zoom. There, there was a question on Tuesday as to whether it might be hybrid or not. And so I believe our chair is going to consult with Athena on potential options. So I'm not sure a full final decision has been made on that matter. Thanks. Thank you. Vince, is there anything else that you'd like to state at this time? Yeah, I, I would, I just like to say something about the regional budget. There were comments about how the, the, the budget, the school population has decreased by one half. I didn't hear a response that said what, what I know, which is there used to be four teams in the middle school and there are now two, which seems to me to be at least mathematically an appropriate reduction. I mean, it may, the, the reduction may have had the impact, a greater impact than 50%. In terms of making reductions, at least at the middle school, and I, I, because it's the high school is more complicated. My record, you know, my understanding is that the middle school has, staffing has, has been adjusted to meet the decline in school population. And the other, the other thing common I make is that I think that there needs to be some awareness that the, the regional school and the elementary schools face competition. This is not a matter that, that is, is an issue with other aspects of the, of the budget that are, that the council considers. But both of these schools face competition from private schools, charter schools, school choice. And additionally, the regional school faces competition from tech school. And, and the, and the tech school competition is such that the loss, the payout is almost identical to that that happens with charter schools about $20,000 a year. And so the reductions that have been made in the past are, are one of the reasons we have these level of payouts. And I think what may seem financially wise could, could in fact turn out. I mean, in 2018, the, the child care program, which serves both faculty and people in the surrounding community, needed $25,000 worth of, $25,000 worth of financial support to add to the, the tuition that the, the families whose children were taken care of, paid. And that was, that was turned down. And I think it's those kind of decisions that really have created, you know, in our, in our creating and making worse problems with the regional school. And it's, and it's attendance levels. And I, I just, I would urge people to, to understand that one, there is competition. And two, that that competition has financial impact on the town. We pay out. And if, if we are not wise in our decision making, we could create more problems than we think we're solving. Thank you. Thank you, Vince. Just, I'm normally don't do this, but it was reduced reduction of eight teams to four teams, not four to two. Okay. I'm still made, but the number was, I mean, yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Are there any other people who would like to make public comment? Okay. Are there any other comments from the group before I asked for a motion to adjourn. I'm going to make a motion to adjourn and seek a second and then we'll actually take a local. Thank you. So we've had a motion to adjourn. It's been seconded. When I call your name, please indicate whether you agree with that by saying, I or name. Councilor Haneke. Hi. Lynn Griesmer is an I Bob Pam. I think that was an I, but I had to read your lips. Hi. Thank you. Bridget Heinz. Hi. Irv Rhodes. Councilor Lord. Lord I. Andy Steinberg. Hi. Thank you. The meeting is adjourned.