 Welcome to the nonprofit show. We are so glad you're here. Today we've got back with us, Dana Skirlock. She's been with us before. In fact, monthly we have a representative from Staffing Boutique join us. So today Dana has brought to share about low cost holiday hygiene. So she's got a lot to share with that. Julia Patrick is here, of course. She's the CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy and I'm Jarrett Ransom, nonprofit nerd and CEO of the Raven Group where I get to play day in and day out as the co-host because of our amazing sponsors. So thank you so much to our friends over at Bloomerang American Nonprofit Academy, Fundraising Academy at National University, Nonprofit Thought Leader, your part-time controller, Staffing Boutique. Again, thank you so much Dana. Also, Nonprofit Nerd and Nonprofit Tech Talk. These are the companies that have allowed us these amazing conversations. And if you missed any of them, we've got you covered. You can go ahead and scan the QR and still find us on broadcast and podcast platforms. So there's a lot to cover today Dana and thrilled to have you back. So for those of you watching and listening who may not have joined us before when Dana's on, Dana Skirlock, she's Director of Recruitment at Staffing Boutique. Welcome back to you. Thank you so much for having me and happy holidays. I can't, the month of November went so quickly. I cannot believe that we're streamlining into towards the end of the year, but thanks for having me back. Always a pleasure. Well, absolutely. We've got a lot to cover, but I really love Staffing Boutique has really been with us from the very beginning. And you're going to share with us a lot of low-cost holiday hygiene, starting off with extra break time. And it says for shopping, are we really giving our staff time to go shopping? I think, listen, I think that retention is bringing it back to like, we're going to have fun today with all the holiday ideas, but like the goal is to make your office environment and your organization a place where people want to stay. The cost of rehiring is so astronomical in terms of whether it's, you go through a staffing agency or just the time that it takes away from your other work to do recruiting. It's just very like, it takes away a lot of your resources. And so anything you can do to increase retention, including having a little fun during the holiday season and making your staff alleviate some of the stress, I think is super helpful. So in brainstorming, we had just discussed like one of my stressors when I worked in the office five days a week was like, when was I going to do my shopping for the holidays? Whether that before like groceries for a big dinner that people are having, if it's actual, if you celebrate Christmas, Christmas presents, Hanukkah has gifts every night, you might need extra time to do shopping. And if your office is in Midtown Manhattan, you can hit up some stores that maybe you don't live near. So why not give maybe this section of the office the afternoon off specifically to go do shopping or any sort of holiday prep that they're stressed out about, surprise them with some time off to be able to take care of that. So I thought that that was like a fun, also they can go together. It increases camaraderie between the people that are working in the office together. So I think it would alleviate stress, but it's also a fun thing. And then it also increases like friendships in the office, which all are gonna help towards your bottom line. So it's a win-win. You know, I think it's an interesting idea too, because especially in the nonprofit sector, where this is a time where a lot of our organizations are increasing their service level and frankly, there are a lot more women. And so these are women at home that are required, that are, I don't use the word required, but they're the stewards of those holiday gatherings and family events. And so often on top of everything else, they're having to conduct, you know, the cooking and the entertaining. And so I like this idea a lot. It's something I really wouldn't have thought of. So thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's from the White House down. Like Dr. Joe Biden just put out the Christmas house, the White House just for Christmas. And it looks like it took weeks of orchestrating and it's always the first lady's job to do it. So you're absolutely right that it's on women in the household to like store that stuff. So yeah. Well, this one might be the jackpot of winners, pun intended, but internal lottery tickets winner being announced at the staff party. Yeah, explain it. It's just been going over. Yeah. I've been in offices before where there were cash gifts, where there were special bonuses and things like that. I think it could be fun to make it into a game. I think a lot of, I knew people in the office when I used to work that were either doing like off track betting or, you know, they like to go to the casino and stuff like that. I think it's a way to just incorporate that. And then everybody likes a game and just having like a straight cash prize being given at the end, make it a lottery. Everybody just can either, you know, you get lottery tickets or perhaps you have to earn lottery tickets in some way, you know, how many, you know, depending on what your business is, like how many spreadsheets you finish or, you know, whatever it is. And then at the end of the staff party, somebody takes it home with $1,000, that person's going to be very, very happy. Or maybe have multiple winners, like they split up the $1,000, the first winner gets 100, and then the next one gets 400, and then somebody gets 500, you know, or something. And then for $1,000 from your business or your organization, you've got this exciting thing that the staff is talking about, you know, it creates excitement in the office, enthusiasm, hopefully. And also at the end, like everybody likes cold hard cash. So I think that it's just something that's like fun and would really, really make some people happy, especially during the holiday season. And again, I just think it's anything to make the work environment seem like we do value you. We value what you do. We think you deserve, you know, I think it's the Ritz or one of those like high-end luxury brands that say that we like to surprise and delight our guests. I think that that can apply as an employer to an employee as well. It's like, why not sometimes just surprise and delight your staff, make them feel valued, make them feel like them being there makes a difference and that you recognize the work that they're doing. And so fun things like this, you know, really reinforce that. Cause you can say it a lot of times, but I think sometimes the difference is making the employees feel it. Yeah. Well, and I think truly Dana, like everyone loves a good friendly competition, right? It's special among colleagues and that could provide so much. You know, you mentioned cold hard cash. Absolutely, who doesn't love that? And there could be so many other opportunities. Another day off to go shopping or, you know, that covered parking lot, which out here in the heat and the sun, that is a coveted covered gift. I know that we're looking at, now this one I was drawn to, and it is about hosting a holiday choir or having live music at the office. I would be mesmerized, I think, if this happened. I loved this idea. I, so obviously I love music. You know, I'm a performer and a singer. So selfishly, it's partly like my interest. However, I will say I did this hop up shop several years about the holiday season downtown. They hired staff for it as an extra project and they had a live choir singing like perils and everyone in line was so, like you said, mesmerized just hearing live music. It changes our brainwaves getting to hear music, whether it's recorded or live. If it's live, you're getting the vibrations through your body too. It's really good for you health-wise. So to have some like holiday music singing in the back while you're working, you can go watch or, you know, in that part of the office, you know, the people that are nearby or sort of getting it, I think it could be really fun and something different or instrumental music. Like if you hired classical, you know, musicians to come in and play holiday music, like I would really enjoy that as an employee. I think there's a lot of people that would unexpectedly enjoy it as well. And it's certainly festive. That's my big thing. It's like, if it's a holiday season, it's snowing outside, it's cold. Let's liven it up and make it festive inside, you know? Dana, I have to add, when I saw this, again, I was mesmerized and it made me think about a local organization here. In fact, it was our local alliance and nonprofits. During giving Tuesday, not this year, but a previous year, they partnered with a local animal shelter that had a litter of puppies and they were bringing the litter of puppies around to nonprofits at that time. You remember that, Julia? And I- That is great. You know, like there's so many creative opportunities and I know that's not really festive for the holidays, but I just, this makes me think, how can we bring in this holiday hijinks into all time of the year, right? Yeah. Oh, no, you're totally right. I mean, research shows, getting to pet animals and play with animals, de-stress as people that lowers your blood pressure. So absolutely, I think that's a fantastic idea. Like have a monthly puppy play or, you know, they do yoga classes with like baby goats and kids. So anything like that I think would be, that would be really, really fun. Yeah. And I love like barbershop quartets, you know? Yes. Having something really fun. I mean, we're singing telegrams gone. That would be another fun one. Yes. I know. I don't know. You know what? And in all my auditions, I've never seen a breakdown for singing telegrams either. So maybe it's gone by the wayside, but I agree. I always enjoyed those in movies when I would see that it was something that you could get, but maybe we should bring it back. Yeah. I think so. You know, I think too, there's so many nonprofits that have a musical piece, especially children in training. And we have this amazing organization in our community called Rosie's House. And it serves the Hispanic population that wants their children to learn mariachi music. And so they train little, little kids on how to perform, you know, the mariachi music and in that whole ecosystem of entertaining. And I mean, I think groups like that are looking for opportunities where they can go out and showcase their talent of their kids or their group, if you will, in a low threshold, with a low threshold. It's not like bringing out Symphony Hall and doing it. I mean, it's something, you know, more accessible and easier to manage. So I think there's gotta be a nonprofit collaboration here for our audience. Yeah. That's a great idea. Well, and I think that the music ties in with this one we're gonna talk about is, you know, the cookie exchange. So how do we bring back that old fashioned cookie exchange or perhaps I can imagine having the music in and a decorating party at the same time? I completely agree. Yeah, talk to us about this. I think that that would be really fun to incorporate both. I think that one of the big things about potlucks and things is that I'm not like the best cook at home. And so I always felt like, okay, I'll bring the salad or I'll bring like condiments or something and other people that were just more fluid, like at cooking and organizing at home, they would bring in the elaborate dishes. And I always felt bad, like I don't participate as much. If you brought it into the office in a way so that you could come to an area in the office and decorate cookies or help with the baking or have you like, it would help, I think everyone participate equally as well as it's just fun. Who doesn't wanna like ice some cookies and enjoy them and stuff. And then maybe if you've got kids, you can bring them in that day and there's music and there's cookie decorating. And then everybody gets to take a small box of cookies home or something like that. Just again, festive, fun, simple and incorporates everybody is what I would say. Like no solo activities, no like private massages. I know there's like offices that do that kind of stuff as like a bonus during the year, totally worth it. But I think for the holiday time, what I'm trying to focus on was things that bring camaraderie. And so particularly with like the cookie decorating and things, making sure that it's all together. Like there's a dozen in a time, three to five, we're going to do this on Tuesday and everybody can participate and have fun together. And again, it's all working towards your office being a place that people want to stay for years and years and years that you don't need to refill positions constantly because people feel unengaged. That's one of the reasons people end up leaving jobs is they feel unengaged with upper management and with the organization and with their mission, they feel distanced from it. So anything you can do to increase the personal relationships, I think within the office and the people that are working together the better and making sure that the higher management roles also come down for these activities. So getting their buy-in as well. Yeah. I love that you said that because I think it puts it into context of why we do these things. And when you understand that framework, I think you think about these things differently as opposed to, okay, we're just, you know, we're unproductive for the next two hours. That's just not the case. It's an investment. Yes. Yeah. That's a perfect way for an investment. I was curious about that productivity, but as we move from the cookie exchange onto gift cards, which I know have been an employee favorite. So, but you added something extra here, right? Like you added a little touch of glitter, which is to include some notes from the board members. I'm sure this goes such a long way, Dana. Yes. And I am sure there are board members out there who might even be listening now and going, I've done that before. Of course, I'm sure that there are individuals who have thought to do that and that's fantastic. I think that if you're like the executive director or the, you know, one of the like C-level people within an organization, pushing your board to give individual notes to all of the staff members could be a big contribution just to morale, you know, bridging the gap between the board and the organization. I think sometimes it can feel like the board is separate. Even though they are the overarching body that's overseeing the organization, I think it can sometimes feel like they're remote and not, you know, a part of the organization. And so bringing it back, especially at the end of the year, during holiday times when people are more reflective, having that personal touch, not just, you know, I get 25 bucks to Starbucks and it says thanks for your work and that's it. But like a personal note from, and every board member can have a different staff member that they write to, you know, we could make it simple and less work and not, you know, one board member having to write 20 notes. But as long as everybody gets that personal touch, I think that that would be, again, go a long way to building personal relationships between your staff and the board and between each other. It's something for them, the staff to talk about, like, oh my, no, it was so nice from, you know, the board of directors. I think it would really help like build self a theme with all the people that are working in the office, that what they do matters and that the people that view their work most closely, including the upper management and the board, see their work. Absolutely. I think that's important. Go ahead. I was gonna ask you, you've served on so many boards. So first of all, thank you, right, for being so involved in the community. Have you seen this practice often within organizations where the board members play a role during the holidays or even during like an annual gratitude campaign? Yeah, and I think it's really important. I think two things that I've been a part of, which have been really cool is that one, to go back out to whomever it is that you partner with. And so for example, in the case of one of my groups I served for many years, we had a really strong partnership with a local family owned grocery store chain. And so we went back to them and said, hey, could we get for our employees? And we had about, we had close to 200 employees at that time and we asked for gift cards that they would give and as a donation. And then we took those gift cards and then we, before our meeting started, we kind of had like a pizza party thing and all of us sat around and we were given to Dana's point, we were given a list and it was, you know, so many employees. And then we just wrote notes with those gift cards and then they were distributed. And I think it was good for the board members because exactly what you said, Dana, a lot of times there's too much of a separation. And there are a lot of organizations that don't eat, the boards don't even meet on the campus site, right? They meet somewhere else, big mistake, but that's another topic. So it helped the board members engage as well with employees and to really, you know, a handwritten note, thank you, you're a rock star or whatever. I mean, it didn't have to be a novel, but it had to be a touch point, right? And, you know, again, families, I mean, that $25 gift card for food, that meant something, you know? It does. I'm so glad to hear that you've been a part of that and then that's happening. And I love this as a recommendation, Dana, I really do. So for those of you that are listening and you're like, what could we do? Consider this one. Now, as we look at this final holiday hijinks, I know there's a lot to talk about with this, but you're gonna share with us how you could organize a volunteer action and you can volunteer at another nonprofit. I love this. Yeah, I think that- A lot of people are reflective at the holiday times. It's the end of the year. People are getting their, you know, if they get an annual bonus, people are in the mood to give back, and rightfully so. And I think that it could be fun to, especially if your mission of your organization, let's say you work at a foundation or something where the mission is research-based or something, you're not getting a lot of that direct service feel the way some of our sisters and brothers that are working in like direct social service are getting every day. So organizing a day, like for everybody to go down and work at a food pantry or, you know, everybody goes and does a book drive or something tangible where you can say, instead of just a walk run that the office does, because I've done those before too, like for breast cancer research month, we're gonna go do a 5K or something like that. I think those are totally fun, but also it, I think something a little bit more tangible than like just raising money for it, but like actually going and feeling the items and like working with the people and doing something for the mission of an organization could be very fun. So like in New York anyway, we've got like the Bowery Mission, you know, they're doing a lot of holiday like service work, especially with all across the country, homelessness is up. We've got migrant workers arriving all the time in New York. I'm sure you guys have heard about that and how challenging that is. So a lot of the social service organizations are overtaxed and don't have enough resources. So anything that we can do to support them, even from fellow nonprofits, I think is useful. And it's, I think in terms of the employees, I think again, it creates a bond between them because they've met a challenge together, you know, and given back some way together. Yeah. And I think it's also really important, Dana, to see how other organizations organize their volunteer efforts. You know, what it's like because so often we're, you know, we're doing the work and we're trying to figure out how to make that volunteer experience and that volunteer journey, you know, work and you know, all of this stuff. But I think it's really healthy to go outside your organization and to learn and to give, of course, but I think it could really have an impact that far exceeds the holidays. I really, really, you know, and so I think it's a cool idea. And I think it's shocking that we don't think of this enough in the nonprofit sector. I mean, how, you know, I haven't seen this. Again, this is something we can do anytime of the year and you know, not necessarily only in December or only during a holiday month. But Dana, this begs the question, right? And I kind of mentioned it before. How does leadership, maybe even board and executive leadership, like, count this into their productivity, right? Like, should we plan for a lesser work? I don't mean lesser by mean of importance, right? But like, how do we fit this in? And then also, how many of these hijinks do you recommend we take on? Ah, that's a good question. Because I totally understand. That's like, we just presented everybody with a slew of ideas and it's kind of like, they're like, we have things we have to get done. How can we do all of those? I would say pick like two major ones that you think would really work for your staff's personality and see how they go. I think just doing one, it could be a flop and then you think it doesn't work. But if you do two, that's a good beta test of like, that you gave it a good college try. But I think that it's worth it, even if the productivity for the day goes down, because obviously people are distracted in doing other things, it will be more than made up for in the personal value you get from everybody doing an activity together and having an experience together in the office. I think that that's where it's gonna pay off. Because I think that when you know you have like a deadline and then you're gonna get to have fun, people tend to get their work done much more quickly than if they had had all day because they stretch it out over the course of the day. But if I know, let's say it's summer Friday and I know I'm getting off at two, I make sure everything's done. So I think that managers also would be surprised to how much the productivity increases around these events before and after the event, that it's not gonna be a detriment to the tasks that are required. Also we're lucky nonprofits fiscal year ends in June rather than in December. So the rush to the bottom line of year end may not be there as much for certain organizations. So they can account for a little fun and a little silliness and maybe some lightened productivity for a few days around the holidays. I also know a lot of organizations that are just simply closed for two weeks. Really giving the staff some time off. I think it depends on what your mission is if you can do that. And I think that that's also great providing like a work-life balance. I also think you can incorporate some activities like this in addition to the time off. That's going to do both. So we value your time and we want you to have rest time and be off work and have a good work-life balance. Also we don't want you to feel isolated and alone for two weeks during the holiday season. We want to make it so that you wanna come back in January and you really enjoy the people you work with and you have common goals and that you've experienced something together. And so I think that it's great to incorporate them no matter what your holidays looking like. You can do these activities earlier in the month and then still kind of have your week-long or two-week closure. And I think that it all works out in the end. People work better as a team. People are able to recognize each other's humanity and each other's like empathy. If you work on a project together, you volunteer together. I think you can see your coworkers in a whole new light too seeing them selflessly help someone else. And I think that that's gonna lead to better productivity in the new year. I love that. I love that. And you're so right. You set a deadline. People tend to work towards that deadline. And if they know we have half a day off on this Wednesday to we're being allowed to go shopping or whatever, we're gonna really hustle through our deadlines or get to our deadlines. And really all of this is in fun and to create that sense of community so that we can retain our talent, our staff. It is so important. That's ultimately the goal is retention. I don't think anything takes away from productivity as much as losing staff. And so it's worth it to have. I think to get somebody up and running, especially a higher level mid management and up position, it really takes six months to a year before they even have enough experience in the role to start producing. So every time you lose somebody, you're losing another six months to a year. So what's one afternoon at the holiday time in comparison to that? It's not a foolproof system. Obviously, life happens and people leave jobs for other reasons. But my goodness, I think most organizations would agree retention is really something we've got to work on. Development jobs, the average shelf life is one and a half years to two years. It's something's gotta give. Cause I don't know how nonprofits can sustain that for much longer. So how do we keep people engaged? How do we keep them in wanting to stay and committed to the organization that they're at? Yeah. Very valid point. Well, I hope that many of you will take on some of these high genes. I love the volunteer action at another nonprofit. Dana, you've brought so many great insights and ideas. And again, just so appreciative. And for those of you watching and listening, if you haven't met our rock star Dana yet, you should definitely look into Dana Skirlock, director of recruitment at staffing boutique. Check out their website, staffingboutique.org. They've been amazing supporters here of the nonprofit show. And we either have Dana or Katie joining us once a month and just so grateful to have your support, Dana. Julia Patrick, you know, always here. So glad to have, well, always here. But then I say that and you're gonna be gone a few days with another commitment. So I guess, you know, I'll do my best to hold down the fort. But you all know when the cat's away, the mice tend to play. I'm gonna be addressing the Credit Union Executive Society next week in Maui. So if you're part of that or whatever, we'd love to meet you and chat. It's really interesting. I've been asked to come and talk to them about how to recruit and retain next-gen board members. You know, the average board member of the Credit Union, which is a nonprofit in North America, is pushing 80 years old. And so, you know, they're desperate to get this younger next-gen blood in. And so it's gonna be a lot of fun. It's a topic that I'm passionate about. And so I will be doing that. So I won't be, you know, playing, I'll be working. But for me, this is like playing because I just love this topic. So, but yeah, if you're part of that group, I can't wait to meet you. Yeah, well, pack your sunscreen because you might find yourself walking the beaches on a break, you know, just like this. But thank you so much to our amazing sponsors that allow us these conversations like the one we just had here with Dana. You know, I love this conversation, the holiday hijinks, because all of this, again, right, is to reiterate maintaining your staff and keeping that culture of connectivity. And so we have a lot of fun thanks to our sponsors. So a shout out of gratitude to Bloomerang American Nonprofit Academy, Fundraising Academy at National University, nonprofit thought leader, your part-time controller, staffing boutique, nonprofit nerd, as well as nonprofit tech talks. So thank you so very much, you know, day in and day out these conversations really do help to elevate our communities, elevate our sector, elevate our staff. And if we ever need to elevate our staff, we know who to call and it's always staffing boutique. So thank you, Dana. Appreciate you. Always a pleasure speaking with you guys. Thank you so much. It's been a lot of fun. Hey, everybody, as we like to end every episode of the nonprofit show. And it's interesting, ladies, we say this a lot, but it means something different. Every time I say it. And the message is to stay well, so you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow, everyone. Thank you, ladies.