 program. I'm Marcy Winograd, coordinator of Code Pink Congress, and I am so proud to be here with my co-hosts, Medea Benjamin, and Cole Harrison, and Marielena Kruglose of Peace Action, as well as others from Peace Action. We'll be hearing from them in a minute. I just thought I'd review the agenda first, and then we'll hear from the other co-hosts. So our agenda tonight is we have terrific speakers lined up. Dr. Gerald Horn, I'm sure many of you have heard him speak before, fabulous speaker, prolific author, professor of African American history, labor history, diplomatic history. I'd like to learn that. At the University of Houston, he has written extensively, as I said, more than 30 books from Hades Black Jacobins to imperialism in Northeast Africa, and so forth. But we'll give him more of an introduction in a minute. First, I also want to say that our second speaker is Walden Bellow, a vice presidential candidate in the Philippines, journalist, environmentalist, human rights champion. And we will have a Q&A with them after we hear from them, eight to 10 minutes. And then we will take an action, Massachusetts Peace Action, our co-sponsor tonight will be leading us in that action, which is basically to urge our members of Congress to back Biden on a no-flight. We do not want a no-fly zone, rejection of a no-fly zone, rather than closing the skies, it opens the skies and could usher in World War III. We'll talk more about that later. But first, let's go to Cole. Cole, perhaps you'd like to give us an update on what's going on with Massachusetts Peace Action. Thank you, Marcy. Welcome, everyone, and thank you all for joining us tonight, the Russia-Ukraine War is in its third week. It's intensifying and it's riveting the attention of everybody in the world. Our perspective on the war is we condemn the Russian invasion, we demand troops out, we demand a ceasefire, but we also recognize the many actions the United States and NATO have taken to lead us up to the current situation. We oppose US arms to Ukraine, we oppose US troops, we oppose the draconian sanctions on Russia, which are going to hurt ordinary people. We think all these will further inflame the situation, and above all, we oppose the establishment of a no-fly zone, which is currently the debate in Washington. And so those are our thoughts. I want to throw to this group informally that it's time to get out on the streets once again about the no-fly zone. We have a peace in Ukraine international coalition, but it hasn't come out with any steps for a couple of weeks, and maybe this is the week we should be out on the streets. And again, I'll just put that thought out for everyone. Thank you, Cole. Your statement sounds very familiar. Code Pink put out a similar statement. Maybe it's best to not work on that statement as well. We borrowed many of your points from it. Okay. A few updates on what's happening in terms of Ukraine. Many of you probably read the news that Zelensky has said that Ukraine will remain neutral and not join NATO. So that's a hopeful diplomatic sign. There's a lot going on. I'm sure our guests will discuss. The U.S. sent a high-level delegation to Venezuela to talk about perhaps lifting the sanctions to ensure that we receive some of Venezuela's oil. That was not greeted with open arms by Senator Bob Menendez, chair's powerful committee in the Senate. So stay tuned on that, China. There are reports that Russia is asking for China's help. China publicly has said we need to de-escalate. A lot of us are saying that. What else is going on? Well, the situation in eastern Ukraine, Maripole, is dire. We know that. Now CNN is reporting over 3 million Ukrainians have fled as refugees to other parts of Europe, Poland, Romania, Slovakia. Some of them, though, however, are returning to their homes. What else? Okay, let's hear from others. Mariel and Krukelos, you're co-hosting with us tonight from Massachusetts Peace Action. You're on the board of Massachusetts Peace Action. Great to have you with us tonight. Thanks so much, Marcy. It's really great to be with everybody on a really difficult time during difficult times. I mean, the point is that the world is awash in war. I know that this attack surprised all of us, many of us, but in fact, on the same day of the invasion, Yemen was hit by 37 separate airstrikes across that country. And as we opposed the fly zone and call for Russian troops out of the war and no Donato, we must similarly demand Biden to stop U.S. complicity in the greatest humanitarian disaster in the world, where in Yemen, at least 377,000 folks by the end of 2020-2021 have perished. And the U.S. is a direct participant in this violence. Additionally, the U.S. resumed its bombing campaign against Somalia, Africa's second poorest nation, and Israel continues to escalate its attacks in Syria. I haven't even begun to talk about Afghanistan. That's on the verge of a famine. It threatens to be an even worse humanitarian disaster than Yemen. And similarly, the Biden administration must release the funds that belong to Afghanistan. This is really a moment for the peace movement to up its game. The weapons manufacturers are driving this gleefully forward with their stock prices soaring and, in fact, diverting our attention from the other existential crisis, which is the climate crisis. So I couldn't be happier to be with you all today. Thank you so much, Mary Ellen, for that update. Medea, you've been involved with Afghanistan and demands that we turn over the money that we stole in the night. Anything you'd like to add on Afghanistan? Well, we're actually putting together a women's delegation that will be going to Afghanistan quite soon to directly learn more about what's happening with the economy and the central bank to witness the opening of girl schools there. So we can report back to you in the next Code Pink Congress. One other thing about Ukraine I wanted to add is that if there are any people in the DC area that are early risers, we are going to be outside of Congress tomorrow morning when Zelinsky is addressing a joint session of Congress. And we know that he'll be asking for a no fly zone, more weapons, war planes, and we'll be there with our messaging of saying reject no fly zone negotiations, not escalation. So anybody around meet us at the capital steps tomorrow morning will be there from 8am to 10am. Thank you for organizing that, Medea. Yes, I imagine there will be a lot of pressure tomorrow when Zelinsky addresses Congress and asks for a no fly zone. We've seen a bipartisan position. No, we reject this. We know this could be the beginning of World War III and a nuclear war. It's so frightening. Yet Reuters is reporting that 70 to 80 percent of the US public supports a no fly zone. I think a lot of people are confused. They don't understand what this means, the ramifications, right? So it's our responsibility to educate, but also to urge our members of Congress to educate. So we'll take action on that tonight. Please stay with us for that action and also amplify it and urge your friends on social media to do so as well. At this point I'd like to introduce Elizaveta Kupriyanova. I hope I pronounced that correctly. She is Russian. She's an intern with Massachusetts Peace Action and she's here to offer her thoughts. Elizaveta. Hi, everyone. So yeah, Russian invasion has been lasting already for over two weeks and the consequences that we're facing already are devastating. There have been a lot of human lives lost, both civilians and from the army side. Russia became one of the most sanctioned country. And some of you probably already heard me on the previous coping event saying, but the consequences of like even if the war ends tomorrow, the consequences will take decades and decades to resolve and generations, generation after generation will take time to normalize the relationship between countries from Russian side, normalize the infrastructure, the life in Ukraine in general and the relationship. And I am also very happy to be in the United States and be able to speak as a Russian citizen person because it's devastating to see how Russian people are being censored and unable to speak and stand for against war. And I think that we should be going, we need diplomacy right now more than ever and keep on pushing for it, especially right now because we're in a very thin line where like the world can face this unimaginable disaster in humanity. Thank you. We feel the same way. We appreciate hearing from you, Elizaveta. I was really uplifted. I attended a rally, a peace rally, let's start out as a peace rally in Santa Barbara on Chumash land where I am. And I met up with three students from the University of California at Santa Barbara. One was from Kiev, Ukraine. One was from Moscow, Russia. And one was from Minsk, Belarus, where my grandfather was born. And they had all come to support diplomacy, not war, not more weapons, not a no-fly zone, none of that. So I'm happy that like citizens from those countries are have this opportunity to support. Yes. So with that, I'd like to turn it over to Medea to introduce our first guest. Well, I'm delighted to introduce Gerald Horn. He is just a brilliant history professor at the University of Houston and author of so many books, over 30 books, and the range of them is quite mind-boggling from Hades Black Jacobins to imperialism in Northeast Africa, the globalization of the African-American freedom struggle. He's also written extensively about the film industry, about the music industry. He teaches courses on US history through film. He received his PhD in history from Columbia University, his JD from the University of California, Berkeley, and his BA from Princeton University. So we are absolutely delighted and honored that you could join us tonight, Gerald. And give us, I know you've got it. I've listened to you on this subject and your range of knowledge is incredible. But unfortunately, we've only got about eight to 10 minutes tonight. So thank you so much for joining us. Before you jump in, Gerald, Dr. Horn, I'm going to say take the time that you want. You've got the time. Well, I'll only prepare. Well, first of all, thank you for inviting me. I'm honored to be here this evening. And I have little time, but many points. I was told eight to 10 minutes. So that's what I prepared for, although I can improvise if need be. And I refer you to the summary of my views in the blackagendareport.com and at theanalysis.news. And my task is to address the global implications of this crisis in Eastern Europe. First, the new Ukraine crisis will have profound impact on food prices, especially wheat and bread and secondly, fertilizer, given the fact that those commodities emerge from Russia and Ukraine. Much of the exports of these commodities goes to North Africa and West Asia, which could then lead to skyrocketing food prices, perhaps famine inducing migration flows across the Mediterranean to the European Union. In the past, this has instigated popularity for right-wing populace and neo-fascist politicians, particularly in Italy. Obviously, ongoing supply chain problems, especially log jams at ports, for example, Long Beach, Los Angeles will exacerbate this trend. Of course, this food and security will not leave the United States unaffected as evidenced by the fact that millions exist on food stamps. Secondly, there will be impact on energy prices. Already one sees the Biden administration overtures to Venezuela. According to press reports, this was due not only because of petroleum, but the interest in the release of, quote, hostages, unquote, and quote, security, unquote, matters insofar as Caracas is close to Moscow and Beijing. If the latter factor concerning security is accurate, this could lead to overtures to Havana and Managua too. But note the South Florida Cuban American right-wing community, along with Senator Robert Menendez of New Jersey, have railed against these overtures to Caracas, which may dampen White House initiatives. The press reports that the U.S. president is headed to Saudi Arabia for similar reasons of energy. And this may have given Riyadh more impetus to execute 81 prisoners the other day and could lead to more aid from the United States to this nation in their ongoing war in Yemen, which too is on the brink of famine. However, the Saudis are fighting forces thought to be close to Iran in Yemen. In that light, I note that talks between Riyadh and Tehran have been suspended recently, as well the talks in Vienna concerning resumption of the 2015 nuclear accord with Iran have been stymied since Russia wants assurance that it can conduct business with Tehran without sanctions. I should note in this context the book by the late U.S. strategist Zbiknev Brzezinski, the national security advisor under Jimmy Carter, the book The Grand Chess Board, where he warned against the de facto treka of Moscow, Beijing, and Tehran emerging, of which he saw as a threat to U.S. hegemony. Speaking of energy, this will have maximum impact on African petroleum producers. In the New York Times recently, analyst Thomas Meany noted that of the 10 most populous nations on planet Earth, only one, the United States was fully committed to sanctions against Russia. The nine also likely includes the nation of Nigeria, a major petroleum producer. The African list of energy producers also includes Algeria, which has fraught relations with France, the European Union leader, but will be expected to fill the gap left by boycott of Moscow's natural gas and oil producers. Angola amongst the 17 or so African nations that abstained on the General Assembly vote castigating Moscow and Equatorial Guinea are also amongst leading oil producers. The latter regime, speaking of Equatorial Guinea, has incurred the wrath of the United States lately by opening the door to Chinese interests and may be on the list for regime change by Washington sooner rather than later. Interestingly, as suggested a moment ago, a disproportionate number of African nations abstain on the General Assembly vote censoring Russia, including South Africa, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Tanzania, Senegal, as did a number of South Asian nations, including Sri Lanka, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh. This led to a bitter confrontation of late between the European Union and the United States on the one hand and Islamabad on the other. The Brussels and Washington were quite upset by Pakistan's position. And of course, it also led to complicated relations with Bangladesh with the New York Times even reprimanding Denmark for seeking to halt vaccine shipments to Bangladesh and retaliation for their abstention at the General Assembly. Expect these flaps between the global south and the North Atlantic nations to continue because ultimately their reflection of these nations seeking to pursue an independent foreign policy in the wake of the rise of China, more of which are non in some in addition to rising food prices in the United States expecting expect rising gasoline prices to a boon to price gougers in Texas in particular. Speaking of energy, there are gaping loopholes in the BDS regime against Russia BDS being boycott divestment and sanctions, a recently inaugurated movement that has gained traction much more rapidly than the BDS movement against Israel. With regard to the point about gaping loopholes note that the third largest bank in Russia is the bank controlled by the natural gas giant gas prom and that bank is not sanctioned, which of course probably means that by the end of the year it'll be the number one bank in Russia. Of course it helps to finance these natural gas exports to places like Germany while total of France has not followed as comrades BP, erstwhile British patrolling in Exxon and exiting Russia. Speaking of China, perhaps the most significant impact of the Ukraine crisis could well be a further step towards a new global order with Beijing and the driver's seat even the New York Times had a report on the front page this morning suggesting as much. You're probably familiar with the February 4th communique between President Putin and Xi speaking of a relationship without limits. Certainly with Russian airspace bar to EU airlines, this means that those flying from London or Paris to Tokyo, Shanghai or Seoul may use an Asian or Chinese airliner to the detriment of British British airways or KLM or France. Speaking of South Korea, the recent election of President Yoon in Seoul will likely mean his nation becoming at least an ex-officio member of the anti-China alliance speaking of the Quad meaning US, Australia, Japan and India. A major question as I speak is whether China will observe sanctions against Russia especially since these sanctions do not have the imprimatur of the United Nations. This could easily lead to a new standoff between Russia and China versus the North Atlantic block and reference here the seven hour meeting yesterday in Rome between US National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan and a leading member of the political bureau of the Chinese Communist Party which presumably Sullivan, a senior administration official described as both quote intense unquote and candid quote unquote. Similarly, the decision by Berlin to spend more on armaments will surely be taken quite seriously in Moscow in light of the history of the 20th century. However, a question to answer ascertain will be whether this maneuver will be in accord with France's off-stated preference for Brussels strategic autonomy as opposed to being a boom for NATO which it seems to be at first glance since Germany said it will be buying F-35 jets from the United States despite the fact that President Macron or France will be facing elections shortly as described NATO in the past as quote brain dead and quote in any case the enhanced militarism will likely lead to a boost in the share price of Lockheed Martin and Raytheon Raytheon of course being the former home of Pentagon Chief Lloyd Austin which argues for renewed emphasis on slashing the Pentagon budget and moving the funds to food stamps in light of this looming a hunger crisis or deepening a hunger crisis in this country. Homelessness education and health care. This renewed emphasis on the fossil fuel economy or the fossil fuel economy as some call it, call it may lead to a boost to the green economy in light of the importance of petroleum and this new constellation of forces. However, the recent defeat of Sarah Bloom Raskin's appointment to the Fed not least to her concern about climate change does not bode well for the green economy. Above all we must prevent this crisis as a number of speakers before me have already suggested we must prevent this crisis from devolving into World War three. Thank you very much for your attention. Thank you very much Dr. Horn. At this point I just want to see if Walden Bellow our next guest is with us he was going to join us from the Philippines. If not we will try to reach out to him but in the meantime we can open it up to questions for Dr. Horn. So Cole, Nadia, Mary Ellen, myself we can jump in ask some questions and if you would like to ask a question of Dr. Horn in the chat please do so. I'd like to throw this first question out there Dr. Horn I don't know if you have any thoughts on this or if anyone does but you know under Bush I believe Bush was the one who said oh we should invite Ukraine and Georgia into NATO and expand further into Eastern Europe and then we saw the coup in 2014 supported by the United States that overthrew a democratically elected leader in Ukraine and installed as part of the transition government and neo-nazi. We could go on about the events that led up to the invasion however I'm wondering and I've been asked this what was the one if there was one inciting incident I mean why now you know this this has been ongoing this concern of Russia is about NATO installing anti-ballistic missiles on their borders so why now what do you any thoughts on that? Well if you look at the State Department website I'm surprised this has not gotten more attention there is a detailed agreement in November 10th 2021 between Ukraine and the United States I can't recall if it's described as a strategic partnership or not but certainly that's the implication in that detailed agreement there is also a reference to NATO not not necessarily Ukraine becoming a full-fledged member of NATO but certainly that issue is rooted in this document from my point of view this helped to trigger the intensification of Moscow's pressure on Ukraine with regard to NATO and as I said I'm surprised that that particular document has not gotten more attention. Thank you. Medea, Cole? Well why don't you go ahead Cole then I'll come. Well I'd like to look at the scenario of a no fly zone which has been discussed in Washington and by Zelensky and apparently many people think that's going to be one of the points that he's going to make in his speech to Congress tomorrow and is it true that a no fly zone would precipitate a US-Russia war or is there another way to look at that? I think I'm very pleased and happy to hear the focus thus far on the no fly zone because this is one occasion where I agree with President Biden where he has bluntly suggested that it could lead to World War III and I do not think that that is an exaggeration at all a no fly zone conceivably could lead to dogfights in the air between Russian jets and NATO jets over the Ukrainian land mass and it could trigger further escalation in that regard it was quite disappointing to listen to the Sunday morning check shows face the nation meet the press this week on ABC were virtually to a person every host was pressing administration spokespersons and others with regard to initiating a no fly zone with little acknowledgement of the dire consequences that could ensue like yourselves I fully expect this to be raised tomorrow with Mr. Zelensky's President Zelensky speech to the US people and I guess to Congress as well but and I salute as ever the Avengerman for having a the gumption and the energy to go out tomorrow to protest this possibility which is likely a probability because it seems a lot World War I and excuse me for sounding alarmist that there's a kind of sleepwalking into a heightened conflict a lot of this has to do with the arrogance I'm afraid to say in US circles in Washington some of it has to do with the apparent underestimation of Russia which you can easily glean not only since February 24th but obviously before February 24th but for whatever reason I think that that is a quite dangerous era and I'm happy to see that mass peace action and code pink or on top of this matter thank you Dr. Horn I have a question about Africa where are the leaders in Africa on what's going on have they been speaking out and yeah can I can I add to that Gerald which is where's the street in Africa yeah how are people feeling about this and and what is the news that they're getting well first of all it's complicated if you look at the general assembly vote as noted there were about three dozen nations that abstain 17 were from Africa one voting against was of course Eritrea the 17 I think I mentioned included such stalwarts in South Africa Tanzania Namibia Senegal et cetera President Ramaphosa of South Africa which is tied to Brazil Russia India and China and the so-called bricks has offered his good offices as a mediator of course he was the point man when the apartheid leaders were negotiated out of power leading to the first democratic elections of 1994 I was surprised that in the New York Times just a few days ago that reference was made to the second most populous nation on the African continent speaking at Ethiopia which I don't think registered a vote with regard to the censure of motion in the general assembly but the New York Times mentioned something that I think speaks to a wider larger question which is that during the time when then Appasinian now Ethiopia was seeking to repel Italian colonizers in the 1890s there were Russian volunteers on the ground and not to mention the fact that Russia had armed the Appasinians now this has to do with a longer history whereby when the Western European nations were getting fat on the plunder and pillage of Africa and the Americas Russia of course was moving east oftentimes the expense of Central Asia and ultimately China and Russia therefore had complicated relations with the Western European nations going back to Napoleon's invasion 200 plus years ago and so Russia oftentimes even Tsarist Russia was seeking to support Africans fending off colonialism which was a tendency inherited by the then Soviet Union which armed the liberation fighters in South Africa in Namibia and Mozambique which also abstained and I think that that legacy helps to explain those abstentions and also what helps to explain the abstentions is there was a lot of upset in Africa about how African students were treated in on the Ukraine-Polish border which of course too was reported again once again in the New York Times this morning and the African Union issued a statement criticizing it President Buhari of Nigeria the giant of the continent the issued a statement their thousands or had there had been thousands of African students matriculating there and I would also say that it's had a very powerful influence on African American opinion as well these stories of maltreatment mistreatment and that's something that you may want to take into account in terms of your future actions. Thank you Dr. Horan I have a question dare I go here but Donald Trump you know for all the talk about Russia Gate and Donald Trump when you look at his record he walked away from two arms limitation treaties with Russia and was about to walk away from the START treaty when his term ended additionally it was under Trump that the United States unlike under Obama started arming Ukraine which may have provided another provocation for Russia not to excuse anything that Russia has done but I'm I'm just pointing that out so what do you think if Trump were president would be we be facing this would we already be engaged in World War three how do you think this will impact any ascendancy on the part of Republicans in the United States? Well it's difficult to speculate on how Trump might have conducted himself although I do will say this I think historians of the future assuming that humanity survives will look back at this period with wonder and perhaps a bafflement because at least since Obama there has been all of this rhetoric and talk about a pivot towards Asia which means a pivot towards China that's the import of the Quad which already made reference to and yet once again we see the United States bogged down in Eastern Europe face to face in a confrontation with Moscow and as suggested to the extent that Washington is bogged down in Eastern Europe it seems to me that hamper its ability to go after what they consider to be the big enchilada which is China and of course Mr Trump himself did not deviate from this Obama line in fact I oftentimes thought that he thought he was pursuing a Kissinger type approach recall how Kissinger leaned towards China and that of course in some sense helped to create the present crisis and so far as the payoff to China was massive direct foreign investment which has created this juggernaut and of course it ultimately contributed to the collapse of the Soviet Union so I assume perhaps I was giving Mr Trump too much credit that he wanted to lean towards Moscow in order to better focus on China I'm not sure if that's accurate but certainly whatever the case in terms of our speculative ruminations the fact is that we're in the middle of a dire crisis and once again I salute the mass action and code pink for taking it on thank you cool well so what about the economic situation assuming we survive for another few months the the mainstream press is crowing that the draconian sanctions on Russia more severe than in any other you know situation are soon going to bring the Russian economy to its knees is this true that may happen but also I think that it could drive Russia and China closer together obviously their economies are complimentary in so far as the natural gas and oil that may not be going westward could easily go eastward certainly China has a use for the the titanium which is essential to building aircraft that will no longer presumably be going to Boeing I noticed that Airbus the European competitor has not said that it will give up Russian titanium I think those who fly airplanes probably should be happy that Boeing may not be building more planes anytime soon given their a recent record of disaster but in any case I think that one scenario could be a great depression in Russia the likes of which we have not seen to this point however given the fact that the excuse the expression the number two economy with a bullet speaking of China is going to presumably be coming to their assistance and given the fact that India which has a relationship to Russia going back at least to Indian independence in 1947 within Delhi just announcing that any spare energy that Russia is not able to sell westward New Delhi would be happy to take that petroleum off the hands of Russia so I think that once again the mainstream commentators are much too much involved in cheerleading they're instead of analysis and to that extent I think that they're doing a disservice to their readers who need analysis more than cheerleading thank you Medea jump in if you have a question yes we haven't addressed the sanctions yet right only passing so I want to ask you about the sanctions and there's a very interesting question in the comments because normally we would ask you about sanctions and the negative impact it will have on the Russian people and you talked about the wheat prices and how that will affect the Middle East and other places but somebody did ask in the chat whether sanctions has a silver lining in that they stimulate new programs of development when trade is not possible do you see this trend emerging for Russia and its allies disadvantageing the US and its allies well it's interesting that you mentioned that because I just read a piece recently about Iran which of course has been surpassed by Russia as being the most sanctioned nation and apparently in Iran there has been considerable so-called import substitution that is to say this nation of 83 million has been forced to develop certain indigenous industries with regard to clothing and other necessities and that's an example of I assume what you're discussing with regard to sanctions I know that there is an idea that's floating around and of course there's a new book on sanctions that folks may want to look at by Nick Mulder M-U-L-D-E-R but commonly is thought that sanctions are not necessarily the kind of regime change element that they are thought to be certainly Iran is evidence for that because well at least thus far it has not led to regime change in Tehran but at the same time I don't think that that should lead us to deliberate sanctions because being familiar with Zimbabwe for example where I once resided there's little doubt that sanctioning Harare over two decades ago helped to weaken the economy and it led directly to a palace coup against then leader Robert Mugabe and I assume that that is the thinking in Washington that if you make the Russian economy screen to use the phrase that Kissinger and Nixon used against the Yende's Chile some decades ago that there will be some sort of mass uprising in Russia that will topple President Putin and of course there's always what Lindsey Graham the senator from South Carolina suggested which is an assassination plot against President Putin the old reliable and the dirty tricks of Washington but in any case so this sanctions regime is very serious and certainly I think that Washington may as some analysts have suggested may be hurting itself because to the extent that China benefits from this present crisis we already saw the news today I'm sure that in the talks between China and Saudi Arabia there's discussion of using the Chinese currency as opposed to the dollar with regard to trading of oil into China and there is an apprehension in certain circles that Washington may be undermining the dollar in the long run with this sanctions happy regime sanctions against Zimbabwe Cuba Venezuela Russia Iran etc it's almost as if they're trying to develop this block of nations which will seek to escape the extraterritorial jurisdiction of Washington ultimately to the detriment of the dollar good point Dr. Horn NATO okay we have a lot of people on the left in this chat throughout the country saying this invasion was provoked by NATO the much of the blame lays at the doorstep of the United States which dominates NATO and NATO that NATO is an arms cartel that it should be disbanded then you have you know I read the Washington Post I read the comments and you have a lot of people saying oh yeah NATO is the only thing stopping Putin from taking over all of Europe right but at the same time the reluctance justified reluctance of NATO to get involved with a confrontation a direct confrontation with Russia that possesses 6000 nuclear weapons and more weapons than any other nation underscores that NATO really doesn't want a head on confrontation so then what is the point of NATO I mean it is a little dizzying don't you think well you know it's interesting before this current crisis I just thought the NATO was a hustle basically by hustle excuse the colonialism for those who may not be familiar with US verbiage I thought that it was this this sort of scheme whereby you get the small nations like Montenegro and North Macedonia and other former members of the Warsaw Pact to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and then under the concept of interoperability they have to then spend more on weaponry which basically means that they go hat in hand or I should say a sack of money in hand to Lockheed Martin and Raytheon to buy weapons that then presumably will never be used that that was the hustle it's just a way to drive up the share price of these charter members of the military industrial complex now obviously I have to do a rethink in light of the current crisis but I do think that the part of the demand that we should be putting forward and I know that you have put forward is really NATO needs to go out of business I mean it should have gone out of business in 1991 after all it came into existence in 1949 as an explicitly anti-soviet alliance the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 one would have thought that NATO would have gone out of business in 1991 but instead we see it involved in Afghanistan we see it involved in exceeding the UN mandate towards regime change in Libya we see it despite some of the comments by the mainstream press involved in a war on Europe in Europe excuse me in the form of Yugoslavia in the 1990s whereby you had this sign of things to come when US fighter jets bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade which was a punch in the nose to a rising China was quite dangerous and fortunately China reacted with restraint but in any case NATO has outlived its usefulness to speak of it as a defensive alliance as Mr. Stoltenberg the leader often does barely passes the giggle test in light of its bellicosity in North Africa in Afghanistan former Yugoslavia etc and I think that at least informally if we are in the conversation with those close to ruling circles in France for example we should encourage President Macron's tendency to see NATO as brain dead and if it is brain dead which is the term that he used we should put NATO out of its misery we should call the plug and let it drift off into eternity thank you I think Medea has one last question and or Cole may have a question as well and then we want to get to the action too well just one to comment on what you just said Gerald I think unfortunately this is strengthen NATO given it a purpose as you said in your opening remarks you know the NATO countries are now adding so much money to their budgets they're fulfilling the goal of 2% of their gross domestic products spent on the military and you know I think thanks to Putin NATO now has a new lease on life but that leads me to my question which is how to talk about Putin it's very hard as progressives to find the right tone the right sense I mean if we can agree that this invasion is catastrophic but yet we don't want to be falling into the whole Russia phobia and personalizing this so much how do you talk about Putin it's very difficult I was being grilled this morning in fact on my KPFA the Pacifica station in Berkeley about the same point and it's a difficult tightrope to walk because as I said to the person that was interrogating me if the Kremlin had emailed me or called me to seek advice before February 24th I would have counseled them not to intervene in Ukraine because I don't think one needs a crystal ball or to be an oracle to foresee this unfortunate chain of events which is marching inexorably it seems towards a greater confrontation perhaps even World War III at the same time as you've suggested and I agree with this whole heartedly there's so much Russophobia in the air right now I mean I made an arch comment a moment or two ago towards this BDS movement which has taken flight with regard to Russia I mean you have people tossing out their principles left and right I mean Switzerland supposedly a neutral country no longer a neutral country this is becoming quite dangerous and I'm glad you asked that question because I really don't have a clear answer as my stumbling thus far tends to suggest but I will say this much that I don't think that people on the left need to be contributing to the Russophobia people on the left do not need to be contributing to the demonizing of one individual as I mean we should be accustomed to this by now doesn't don't people recall Gaddafi Saddam Hussein slobid on Milosevic that's usually the approach you personalize it and you give the gullible in this country of which there are far too many this is villain from a Hollywood movie to focus on so we really need to avoid that but I think that the emphasis as Katrina and Vanda Waible of the nation has put it should be on de-escalation and negotiation and already as noted with regard to the latter we've had the president Ramaphosa of South Africa step forward the Turks have stepped forward there are a number of possible mediators the Chinese have offered their good offices although I think that Washington will veto that don't forget the Israelis oh yes the prime minister has been spending quality time in Moscow of late and chatting interminably on the phone president not only Bennett world statesman yeah right so I think it's just a matter of emphasis that our emphasis we should keep our eye on the ball which should be movements towards peace that's our goal we're not warmongers there are enough warmongers already they don't need us to join that crew and that's about all I can say thank you Cole I don't know if you had a question or if you're ready to leave this in the action you or Mary Ellen yeah why don't we go to the action it looks like wild and Bella is not able to join us tonight and apology for the miscommunication or whatever circumstance caused that we haven't we haven't been able to he said he would be here but he didn't make contact but anyway let's go to the action because the push for a no fly zone in Congress is rising and with Zelensky's speech we're very concerned Mary Ellen can you take over and explain this action for sure and one more time thanks so much to professor it has been a real pleasure to have your wisdom tonight so yes we have since this is our moment as a peace community it says an historically important task that we have ahead of us we have an easy tool that we can um we'll have for you in the chat Cole are you going to paste that in I have a link handy I'm not sure it's the right one by the way just just to let you know that Walden just did come in so after we take the action we can hear from Walden this is awesome let's um let's hear from Walden no no I think we should do the action the action then we'll go to water okay so the okay the action is um we have this tool uh and in the in the chat you'll see a link where you'll be able to tell Congress your members of Congress President Biden Secretaries Blinken and Austin as well as the Vice President Harris to reject the no fly zone and again this is on the eve of President Zelensky speaking to Congress um he is expected to ask the US to establish a no fly zone in Ukraine which we have been uh duly made aware that could be really disastrous and unfortunately three quarters of all Americans now approve of a no fly zone because they think of it as some kind of invisible star wars force field apparently and apparently some members of Congress think this as well so there is no military solution um if you fill out the form it will send that message to to Congress and the rest that I've mentioned the urgent diplomacy is the only way to solve this that a solution would incorporate an immediately ceasefire withdrawal of Russian troops an agreement that NATO will not expand further and an establishment of Ukraine as a neutral country there's a second ask as well which is in addition to opposing a no fly zone um we're also asking that the US not allow Poland which is a member of NATO to transfer fighter jets to Ukraine because in that case the US would replenish those jets with those jets with US at 15s so again another dangerous avenue to spiral things out of control so I hope that you'll all take advantage of this tool and email Congress and the president and the administration in general to reject the no fly zone all right so we will do that now we'll just add that we have 479 participants on the call and we would like to see 479 people complete the action in the next few minutes please yes Cole can check right yes we will and I am going to check yes and I would also suggest that people call their member of Congress in Washington tomorrow and ask them to speak out to issue a statement to their constituents rejecting this fly no fly zone great so we should get on to introduce Walden who is doing that Marcy okay we'll get there in just a minute maybe give a people a few minutes to finish I think they can do it while we while we talk I was actually supposed to do that so let me go ahead okay welcome Walden bellow he is a professor of sociology and public administration at the university of the Philippines still a man and his executive director of regional policy think tank focus on the global south he's an international adjunct professor at bingham binghamton university in new york as well he's the founder and chairperson of the left wing alliance naban masa which means fight of the masses in in philippine and is a former member of the house of representatives of the Philippines and a current candidate for vice president of the Philippines Walden bellow so well Walden unmutes himself I just want to say Gerald you're one of the most brilliant people I know and thank you so much for that amazing talk and answering questions and Walden is also one of the most brilliant people I know so we are so delighted that you were able to join us Walden and just to put you up to date we have had a wonderful talk by Gerald and he answered a number of questions but we would love to know your perspective because you are in the global south you know well the global south and so your perspective might be a little different and we're delighted you were able to join us are you unmuted Walden don't go I don't know if you can hear us Walden you you may have unmuted the wrong microphone yes you admitted me I think and me too yeah Walden Walden can you hear us okay there we go yeah hey Walden don't hear us yes and I'd like to see them become a man and uh you know he when I started looking at the first 48 the original speaker would appeal someone and they go somebody is unmuted who is that speaking zoom says he's connected to audio so um zoom isn't recognized isn't audio feed yet well um marcie what do you suggest we do well uh let's give him a minute give him a minute and then uh he's trying he's trying oh kind of hearing squeaks it is exciting we've had over 500 people on this call and just as he gets ready I want to say we are part of a global movement called Peace in Ukraine and we will be setting up a global webinar uh again very soon and we'll let you all know about that and we also have Code Pink Radio which Code Pink Congress produces once a month or our campus produce one and please ask your radio station your local radio station be it a college station or non uh commercial station to air Code Pink Radio and also Shay thank you Shay for navigating the tech tonight can post in the chat here a link to join our google group so you get our latest blasts and perhaps you would like to be a Code Pink Congress liaison or point person for your congress member we would love that walden bellow can you see us can you hear us yes please unmute I think he's been trying to do that there he goes okay can you hear me now yeah right I'm terribly sorry I'm I'm I'm right here in the bulldox on the campaign trail so the the thing is spotry the internet connection spot here but while it's still okay then you know I'll be with you yes please tell us your thoughts about how the Ukraine crisis will impact global politics oh okay um so I assume we've begun yes yes we've had almost an hour we talked with Gerald we were talking with Gerald Horn for the last hour yeah yeah yes I think we've got um time problem because I expected this at 9 a.m. our time time zone mix up yeah yeah okay um well um the international implications I'll just be very quick around this I think that while the the the the global south most countries have asked have signed on to the the the general assembly resolution uh to Walden you might turn off your video on them the inviolable hesitation about being yeah Walden maybe yeah turn off the video it'll be easier okay okay um well there has been a great deal of hesitation about uh being more actively involved on the US side uh and uh and I think that is the sort of a strong hesitation that's being um registered by many countries in the in the global south uh I think the hesitation for this uh stems on the one hand but you know definitely people don't agree with the invasion because of the violence the violation of national sovereignty but the other thing is a very very strong feeling you know that the US and NATO in fact provoked this with NATO's push ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union ever since the early 1990s to push Ukraine and you know the surrounding countries bordering the Soviet Union the former Soviet Union or Russia into the into NATO so this was definitely one of the major initiatives of the Clinton administration so I don't think that this view is something that is shared by the global south alone I think that the recent article uh of uh professor Mirsheimer from the University of Chicago who is one of the more conservative political real realist the schools of international analysis uh blames NATO and the US squarely for having triggered this invasion by the constant press to bring in NATO into uh of Ukraine into NATO as well as the um coordination or the work that has been um done by the agency in the US of the far right wing groups to install a pro-nato and pro-western regime so um that's one aspect that I think needs to be registered from the very beginning the second thing is that um a lot of people have you know been appalled by the way you know that while Ukrainians white Ukrainians are being admitted uh and welcome into um particular Africans are being barred or they are subjected to very discriminatory treatment by a Polish and other authorities and you know just this this this sense you know that racism is at work even during wartime and and that this sort of reflects uh the kind of you you know racist you know underpinnings of both NATO and the European Union um the third thing of course is the utter hypocrisy of condemning uh the Soviet uh I mean the the Russian invasion and uh at the same time um having you know not condemned incursions and the violation of the rights of national sovereignty of people's rights especially when it comes to Palestine uh on you know the part of the US the Biden administration uh so this double standards that the um Palestinians have underlined is you know something you know that um that um is something that resonates with you know the global south and this is why I think there's a great deal of hesitation people don't want to be pulled into the US side here because what they see is you know this is really you know you know the the traditional geopolitics and racist politics uh and double standards of the west that is at work here now coming to this part of the world and let me just um let me just um um uh underline a few points uh there have been commentaries initially that said that wow doesn't this sort of thing uh um in fact um uh encourage China uh to do something about Taiwan that's to put it crudely but nevertheless I think that there has been this you know in in the ongoing demonization of China uh the Ukraine um the invasion has had a spinoff in terms of conservative US Pentagon analysis you know that that Taiwan might be next uh well uh let me just say a few points with respect to this one is that um the situation in the Ukraine and uh Russia I mean and and NATO and uh the Taiwan and the United States is very different but there is no secure uh NATO um you know it's not yet a member of NATO but there is a strong security treaty that binds Taiwan to the United States so that's the first thing that we really need to know the second thing is that the US has a massive naval presence in the South China Sea uh and in the Taiwan straits um the seventh fleet um is there all the time uh and uh we're talking about um the South China Sea is not really you know dominated by China it's an American lake I mean those of us who have been doing military analysis of the western Pacific for a long number of years you know just see that this is it's silly to talk about China controlling the South China Sea or what we call the Philippines the West Philippine Sea um under the surface you do have dozens of US attack submarines as well as nuclear ICBM submarines on the surface you have aircraft carriers uh and you know the whole host of contingents of surface ships you know that accompany the the seventh fleet okay and then on the air you have complete US dominance uh air uh air naval air dominance of of the air so um China would be crazy you know to attempt any kind of move uh in the context of you know the the tremendous military dominance of the United States which is of course uh supported by uh based uh bases in Japan in South Korea and the Philippines uh China is practically just surrounded by you know this this this US military garrison uh state in the western Pacific uh the other thing that I think we really need to understand is uh China uh is not about to forsake its diplomatic gains or the gains of its economic diplomacy which which has won it friends around the world and in the global south um by committing a kind of a reckless action uh in the in in the area so that's that's the furthest thing that China would be interested in what we're worried about here and I you know that I believe what I worry about here is that in fact uh it is the US that might stop tensions in this area to make up for its humiliating exit from Afghanistan uh and uh you know the loss of credibility even to its western allies in Europe you know that uh accompanied this and um you know so there is this this this this this this worry you know that geopolitically what is really worrisome here is because of its military dominance is that the US would find ways of raising military tensions in this area now I worry about that because uh of several things one is that um with respect to China uh well it's quite clear that China has become the center global capitalist accumulation uh it accounts for 28 percent of GDP growth compared to the US is on behalf of that so that's fairly clear uh the second thing that I think we need to pay attention to is that the only place where the US really continues to maintain undisputed superiority is in the military and the US spends three times more than China uh in terms of the its budget and definitely um you know the the quality of the US forces including its naval forces is so far above you know that of of China and really China is not really competing at this point in time so um and finally the one thing that uh that we must really see here is you know that the US is in the midst of what I've called an informal civil war uh and the you know the way you know that you know the you know the right wing of the democratic managed the matter to take away uh you know or or to counter the rise of the far right in the United States has been to engage in milk in strong pro imperialist military stock and um traditionally of course the democratic party um you know has uh used um a strong uh a kind of net you know that pro imperialist stand in order to be able to influence domestic politics so Biden I think is is is is is you know employing traditional you know kind of democratic tactics of using foreign policy to try to influence the direction of domestic politics so these are the the you know these are the the the considerations that I would really bring up uh both international as well as in terms of US domestic politics when we assess the way that the US and the West you know has behaved uh with respect to the Ukraine crisis so let me just finalize my my point here that it is that it is an invasion that definitely must become them we must push for the negotiations so that we can have peace immediately in the area but we must also pinpoint very strongly the responsibility of NATO and the United States for provoking this crisis and um if there's anything that we need to worry about uh in other parts of the world it's the way that to make up for many of its problems in the last few years including the extent the US might try to stop problems elsewhere thank you thank you so much Walden vello great to hear from you I'm so glad that you were able to join us yeah I've often thought you know ever since Russia said I know several days ago look the bombs will stop immediately if Ukraine declares neutrality will not join NATO and shrines that into its constitution if Russia takes full control of Crimea which basically it has uh and that uh we have independence for those eastern regions of Ukraine so my thinking is why why is this still underway why can't we agree to this given that today Zelensky said Ukraine will remain neutral and NATO has made it clear that they don't want to get into a direct confrontation with Russia so I'm not clear on what's holding it up and I think it's disgraceful that Biden is not in part of this process in urging a diplomatic solution I'd like to ask you a question since you're running for vice president of the Philippines Walden vello what has been the response to your platform it sounds like you have an anti-imperialist platform how's that going on the campaign trail and what has the coverage been like of the Ukraine crisis in the Philippines so that's it well more questions okay the focus of the coverage of the Ukraine crisis in the Philippines has been our workers in the Ukraine uh there are not many but we have something like around 300 Filipino workers in the Ukraine and you know the focus has been to try to secure their you know their safety and uh concern you know that uh they'd not be discriminated against if they look for jobs in Moldova in Poland and any of the other surrounding countries the second thing is the Philippine government has condemned invasion but at the same time it is it has been you know exhibiting this this ambiguity with respect to the the United States the last statement that has been made by our president that the US military facilities in the Philippines would be open to to supporting any US action related to the Ukraine has been taken by many of us to be a really ghastly move and you know this this just shows that despite this previous anti-american rhetoric in the first two or three years Duterte has now shifted you know into a wholesale embrace of the United States and as you know you know when he says that US military facilities in the Philippines would be open to you know to to to supporting something the US makes with respect related to the Ukraine you know we we have about five us military bases here which are nominal Philippine bases so the people know that we kicked out the two big US bases back in 1992 1991 1992 Clark and Subic but what people don't know is that owing to developments over the last seven years the US now has five military bases in the Philippines that are really part of the West Pacific garrison of the United States so so this is very worrisome you know that you know after flirting with either a pro-us stand or a neutral stand over the last few years in the last two years the Philippine president has again brought the Philippines back into full alliance with the United States and that's extremely worrisome you know to you know for us so but I think most people in the Philippines their realization is that the national interests of the Philippines are not involved in the Ukraine crisis so that I do not think that what with Turkey has done which is to open up US military you know military facilities to you know that he said that the US can just use them anyway at once with respect to the Ukraine I don't think that popular move at this point in time so we are the only force running as a tandem Caliote, De Guzman and I we're both running on a socialist platform and a solid and imperialist platform this is something very new independently is running you know you know for for office and no longer being part of what we call elite led well then we lost you I'm sorry and we're making a lot of headway and Walden we we can't really hear you okay but we heard we heard the gist of your message well okay wish you the best of luck on the campaign trail Walden thank you for taking that message to the people I need a realist message okay so can you hear me now yes we're going to wrap it up so maybe your final thoughts okay so thank you to everyone you know I am a great supporter of Code Pink of Media Benjamin and all of you nice people there fighting to get the real views around the Ukraine and you can be definite that we're with you all the way and we also appreciate the support of our friends in the United States you know it's an uphill yes it is an uphill struggle just like there so but we're sort of if we don't win although we we hope we will win this time at least we're planting the seeds for a future struggles for socialism here in the Philippines well good luck to you vice presidential candidate in the Philippines Walden Bellow so glad you and Dr. Horn could join us yes and in my most hopeful moments I I think gee you know we are coming so close to a nuclear confrontation to nuclear annihilation that maybe this will be a wake-up call about our bellicosity and the danger of this pivot to Asia you know once people realize what what they are pushing so thank you for joining us perhaps we can all unmute and thank Dr. Horn and Walden Bellow for joining us on Code Pink