 A dinosaur and ATP, this kind of pure energetic signaling is very important for the physiological and the pathological conditions, but the function is not well studied. A large limitation is, you know, we are looking at tools that enable us to detect this kind of chemical to know how they, where their secret is, or how they communicate with the dinosaur neurons, the dinosaur cells, because they are very similar, the ATP and the dinosaur, they are very similar. So we need a method that enables us to monitor this kind of chemicals with very good specificity, sensitivity, non-invasiveness, also, you know, with very good spatial and temporal resolution. So that's why we are developing tools, genetically encoded tools to achieve this kind of in vivo monitoring. That's why I'm doing the Pyrotechnical Transmitters sensors. I know someone's opinion may contradict yours. Where's my friend Alan? It's all about your perspective. Who are we and what is the nature of this reality? Five, four, three, two, one. Nihao, everyone. Welcome to Simulation. I'm your host, Alan Sakyan. We are on site in Beijing, China at Beijing University Life Sciences. We are now going to be talking about pure energetic transmitter sensors. We have Dr. Jiao Faw Wu joining us on the show. Hi. Thank you so much for coming on our show. Hi, Alan. Thank you. You're so welcome. I'm so blessed to be here in Beijing at School of Life Sciences. I love it here. You guys are doing great work. And I'm pumped to be talking about you, about your field. For those that don't know, Faw is a postdoc in the lead lab at Beijing University School of Life Sciences focused on pure energetic transmitter sensors. You can find the link in the bio below. All right, Faw, let's start things off by asking you, what are your thoughts on the direction of our world? Oh, that's really a big question. Actually, I think I have... I don't know whether I have a good answer for this kind of question. I think the world now, people are becoming rich. They have more and more money, right? So, but people care about their housing, right? So, but how did this happen? How could we kill this kind of disease? Actually, for a lot of diseases, we still have no answer, right? So, that's what I'm really interested in, especially for the brain disorders. People have not too much answers for this kind of brain disorders. So, although we have a do a lot to... Now, we have no something about the brain disorders, but not fully understood. So, I think one limitation is the brain is very complex, right? There are millions of neurons that can make it with each other. So, we don't know which kind of neurons or neural circuitry that do not work well. So, that's why we need some tools to enable us to imagine this, so that we can see the neural communication, to see which kind of communication has changed in the disorder conditions. So, that's what I think for the future, as a neuroscientist, what I think about the day. Yes, because you make this good point that we're getting so much richer, and that people want to live longer, they want to live healthier every single day, but then we have so many diseases that come up within our bodies, and so, we need to understand the brain really well to prevent some of the neurodegenerative diseases. We need to understand just how the building better tools to understand these complex organs like the brain. Yeah, that's just a key point. I like that. And then, how about, where were you born? Tell us about your journey. How did you get interested in science? I think, as a young, young children, actually, my parents, they give me a lot of freedom. You can choose whatever you want. So, when I, as a, I think as a child, in your childhood, as a teenager, actually, I don't know. I don't know what kind of work I will, I will work on in the future. So, but my parents encouraged me to try more, right? You should, so that's what, so I think I'm doing science because I do not hate science. So, when I, when I'm truly working on science, I think I'm feeling in love with science. Yes, yeah. So, when I went to college, I, actually, I studied in the plant science during the college. Yes, yes. And where were you born? I was born in the, in Shandong province at China. In, yeah, in the, in the Middle East of China, yeah. So, yeah. And then you went to the Northwest, Northwestern A&F, agriculture and forestry. Yeah, I went to the Northwest Agriculture and Forestry University for the college. So, I'm studying the plant protection at that time. Yeah, so, when I applied for graduate school, actually I, because I'm, actually, working on the plant protection in the college. So, it's difficult to think how I changed from the plant science to the neuroscience. Yeah, so, when I applied for the graduate school, actually I don't know which kind of major I want to, or what kind of science I want to do in the future. Let's talk about the plant science, though, because this is, this is still really interesting stuff. So, plant protection, how pathogens interact with plants. Okay, so, teach us about what you were studying. Actually, we use the, we started a pathogen and how the pathogen interacts with this kind of plant. We start, the plant we are interested in is the rice and the white, yeah. So, because when the pathogen, in fact, the rice, usually they will get a lot less production for the rice. So, that's very important to know how the pathogen interacts with the host. Yes. Yeah, so that we can have a way to, you know, to plant, to protect the plant, to kill these kind of pathogens. So, But how are you protecting the plant against the pathogen? Yeah, I guess. Yeah, what were you doing? Actually, we are doing research. Yeah, we want to know the mechanism, how the pathogens, they can, you know, infect the, infect the plants. What was the mechanism for the pathogen to infect the plant? Yeah. What, well, what is it, though? They have different ways. The pathogens, they are very smart, they are very smart. So, they have different ways to infect the rice, all the other plants. So, the rice, they also fit with the pathogens. It's kind of, they fit with each other. So, they have different ways, the pathogens have different ways, they can infect the plant. And the rice, they can feed back. And defend. And they defend back. Different ways. In different ways, yeah. So, yeah, I think that's also very interesting, interactions, it turns out. Those two, yeah. Especially because rice feeds so many people, probably billions of people around the world. And so, in order to feed people more effectively, you want to study the pathogen interaction and try and boost up the plants, the rice's ability to compete against the pathogens so it can have greater yield, more food to feed people. Yeah. Yeah. And so then that was for four years. And then you decided to go- Actually, I'm doing research for two years during the undergraduate. Okay. Yeah, so I'm studying the plant production. We have some costs, the biologic costs, the plant science, the plant pathogen, and some insect. Yes. Insect science. And you guys do two years of general studies. General studies. Two years of specific. For me, I work in the lab for about two years. Two years. And then how did you decide to come to Beijing to life sciences here? You know, when I'm going to graduate from the college, I decided to continue my scientific career. So, but which kind of research should I work on? So at that time, I should have no idea. So what I'm doing is I am, you know, if you don't know what to do, you can talk with the senior person, such as our mentors or the teachers. Yeah, so I talk about, talk a lot with my teachers. So they, also the senior people, yeah, we talk with, so they give me some suggestions. So at that time, I decided to come to Beijing because in Beijing, they have a lot of scientists. They work on different areas. So I went, I went to the summer school at the Chinese academic science. At that time, I know a lot of people from different university of China. They work on different projects. So at that time, I know not only the plant science, but also the other science, such as the neuroscience or the neuroimmune, or the cancer science. So in the summer school, I think that's giving me more chance to know, you know. What you wanna do? Yeah, yeah, I can do something different. Yeah, so after this summer school, I went to the Beijing University. Cool. So you kinda got a little taste of cancer science, neuroscience of different sciences, and then you figured you wanted to pursue the neuroscience at Beijing University. Exactly, exactly. At that time, my mentor, Dr. Yunlong Li, gave me an opportunity to interview, yeah, interview opportunities, opportunity. So we talk with each other for, at least I think for more than five hours, yeah. So he gave me a lot of suggestions. At that time, he just set up the lab. He gave me a lot of suggestions. Hey, I think- What year was this? This was 2012? 2013, 13, 13, yeah, 2013. 2012, yeah, 2012. I was an undergraduate at that time, yeah. I went to the graduate school at 2013, yeah. So, yeah, we talk a lot about the future. So he wanted me to, he gave me an offer at that time to study in his lab. So now after six years, more than six years, I think I have made a good, a right choice. Yeah. Well, I think I love this kind of neuroscience, yeah. When you were first talking to Yulong and you were figuring out what your role was gonna be in your graduate studies and helping him set up the lab and all this type of stuff, what were you thinking about that process of helping him with this process, but also with you figuring out what you wanted to do at the lab, at your undergraduate, or your graduate studies, how did you figure that out? I think sometimes for the young undergraduate, sometimes you don't know exactly which kind of science you want to do, right? So, it's not easy to make a choice, to make a decision what kind of science you want to do. So at that time, I think if you don't know what kind of science you want to do, just try. Try something. Yes. Rather than you're just waiting, you're always sitting over time. Try different things and then you find what you like. Yeah, yeah. Or you can talk with some of my people, talk with senior people to say which kind of science you want. Mentors help a lot, yeah. Mentors help a lot, I think that, I think. So then when you guys were setting up the lab, what was your conversation about for these last six years that you've been doing this more than that? How has it been setting up the lab, helping with that process? Also, you figuring out what you wanted to do in your graduate studies, how did you figure that out? You know, when you long set up the new lab, actually we want to do something totally different. We want to do something big, you know? And so we decide to, you know, because in the brain, we are studying the brain science. So in the brain, they have some chemicals, they call neurotransmitters. They are very important for the neuron communication. So, but why do they have some new neurotransmitters? Neurochemicals, they can serve as neurotransmitters. At that time, we don't know. So we want to study this kind of question by all, we want to screen to see why do they have such kind of chemicals. So in the, I think for more than three to four years, I'm studying this kind of question, whether they have some new chemicals that can serve as neurotransmitters in the brain. So, but I think at the beginning, you know, we are, we have such a good hand. So we don't know whether this can work or not. So Dr. Lee gave me a lot of suggestions, also gave me a lot of freedom. You can try, you can explore a lot. But after four years, actually, three to four years, actually I think I, this kind of question is a little bit difficult for the graduate students. So after four years, I give up this project. So I changed this project to another project. That's what we are going to talk, maybe in the next few minutes. So I changed the project to focus on the developing sensors for monitoring this kind of pure neurotransmitters, such as the adenosine and ATP. Yeah. So I think when you, as a graduate students, as a PhD student, I not only learn how to do research, but also I learned how, when should you start and when should you give up. Sometimes, you know, because the project, sometimes if the project starts for a long time, I think you should think in different ways or you can give up or put it, hold on and do another project and then in the future, when you get more experience, you can go back for this project. Yes. Yeah, this is a very important point. It's that you have, when you're first putting together the lab, you're taking on this big challenge for a graduate student of trying to figure out of like, can I probe this new area of science? And sometimes it's important to say, hey, maybe I should put this on hold and I should do something else for now and maybe later when I gain more experience, I can come back to it. So it's actually, that's a really important point to know when to put something on hold or to give it up and focus on something else. So then the last two years or more now being spent on pure-energic transmitter sensors. So what is that pure, what is pure-energic? So let's start with that. What is that? Yeah. The pure-energic transmitters actually is a class of molecules. They have this kind of pure-energ growth such as ATP, we're familiar with the ATP, right? Inside of the cell, the ATP is a very important energy source, but when the ATP released from the cell, you know, it can serve as a signal molecule. The ATP and its derivatives, such as the ADP with two fast-phase group and a dinosaur without the fast-phase group. They are all, yeah, this kind of class of chemicals, they are called pure-energic transmitters or modulators. Yeah, that's this kind of chemical. This kind of chemical are very important for controlling a lot of physiological conditions. For example, for our breast control. The ATP is very important for the breast control. And a dinosaur is actually a very important sleep substance, also called somalgans. So do you know which, what kind of this chemical? Yeah, you taught me when we first got here. Yeah. Caffeine. I want to give as a present for you. This is such a nice gift. I really appreciate it. Actually, this is, this is a structure called caffeine. Yeah. Yeah. Caffeine molecule. Yeah. So when we drink coffee, you will feel awake, right? Yes. Yeah, that's why we feel awake. That's because actually the caffeine will compete with the endogenous somalgans. That's the adenosine. So compete with the somalgans. So people, when you drink coffee, you will feel awake. So it's very important for the sleep control. So adenosine. So adenosine is being modulated in our bodies for sending us closer to sleep. Yeah. And caffeine, when we drink caffeine, the caffeine molecule targets the same receptors that adenosine is trying to make us go to sleep. Exactly. And so it blocks caffeine blocks. Block the adenosine signaling so that people will feel awake, right? Yeah. Yeah. But for this kind of molecules, this pure natural molecules, they are very important, right? And the malfunction of this pure natural transmission is associated with a lot of pathological diseases, such as the pen cessation. ATP is very important for pen cessation. Pen. Pen. And neuroinflammation. Oh, neuroinflammation. And the pen cessation. Pen cessation. Yeah. P. P-A-I-N. Pain cessation. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Oh, which one ATP is for pain? ATP is very important for pain, you said? Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. So would it be like the cells here? They got secret ATP. They got secret ATP to communicate through the nervous system to the brain that there's pain. They got not only secreted in the brain, in the central nervous system, they got also secreted in the peripheral system. In the peripheral system. Yeah. But the malfunction of adenosine signaling is associated with the scissors epilepsy. And the malfunction of adenosine signaling deals with epilepsy. Yeah. Also, now a public FDA approved drugs. Now it's a demo, I forgot the name. It can target to the adenosine receptor, the A2A receptor. It can be used as a drug for the treatment of Parkinson's disease. Just FDA approved. Interesting. So targeting adenosine receptors is also for treating Parkinson's? Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So that means the adenosine and ATP, this kind of pure energetic signaling is very important for the physiological and the pathological conditions. But the function is not well studied. A large limitation is we are lacking of tools that enable us to detect this kind of chemical to know how they can, where they are secreted. Yes. Or how they communicate with, as a doctor with neurons, the doctor with cells. Yeah. So because structurally they are very similar, the ATP, ADP and adenosine, they are very similar. So we need a method that will enable us to, we can monitor this kind of chemicals with very good specificity, sensitivity, non-invasiveness. Also, with very good spatial and temporal resolution. Yes. Yeah. So that's why we are developing tools, imaging tools. So the genetically encoded tools. So to achieve this kind of in vivo monitoring. Yeah. Yeah. That's why what I'm doing is the pyrotechnical transmitted sensors. And you were doing some of that in vivo monitoring in partnership with Shanghai. Okay. So tell us about how you can do in vivo, monitoring and imaging spatially, temporally of like adenosine or of ATP transmission. Because this is very hard to do. How did you get, how were you guys figuring out how to do it? You know, it's, I think it's not easy to monitor in a real human, right? Yeah. We use the model, in a model system. Sometimes we're working on the fly, this is a drosophila as a model. But for me, I actually use the mice as a model. Yeah. So we can inject the sensor in the mass brain and we use the optical method to monitor this kind of dynamics of adenosine during this kind of sleep and wake cycles. What do you inject into the mouse brain? You're gonna use this kind of virus. Which one? Which one? A, V, the adenosine, the A, V virus. A? A, V. A, V, adenosine virus or what does it stand for? It stands for the adenine associates virus. Oh, adenine associates. Yeah. Okay. Very generally used virus for the neuroscientists. Okay. Yeah. And then that does what? So that is the sensor, the optical sensor. It helps become an optical sensor for imaging. It helps you image. Yeah. Because, yeah. So that is the sensor can express in the brain. And then you can use the optical system to record the signals. If you can record, you can see a signal change. That means the adenosine release. So the virus does what to the neurons that makes it easier to image? What does it do to the neurons? The virus can express the sensor. Can express the sensor? Yeah, yeah. Okay. In the neuron. Oh, which makes it so that you can image it? Yeah. Okay, okay. And then you image it with, is it with the long wave? Is it the, what are you using for the optical imaging? Again. Actually, we use, we call it the fiber photometry. The photometry. Yeah, photometry. Yeah. So we can have the optical recording inserted in the mouse brain. Or we can have a fiber connected with the computer so that you can, during the mouse can free-moving. Okay. Yeah. They can sleep. Also you have this kind of EEG and EMG recording. You have both of those too. Wow. Yeah. So that you will know whether the mouse has to leave a week. Yeah. Right? So also you can record this optical signal. Right? And how are you, this is non-invasively or invasively? I think it's, I think it's okay. Yes. Yeah. But it does go through, do you have electrodes, glass electrodes in the brain? Yeah. You do. So it's difficult to do in the human brain. But I would do that in the mouse, yeah. And the mouse can move no problem. Yeah, they can free-moving. And the electrodes stay in place for reading in and out? Yeah. Yeah, I know that's a big challenge is making sure that if the mouse is moving that you can still not damage the neurons. Yeah. Yeah. We already insert this kind of optical fiber before we record. So let the mouse recover for more than two weeks at least. Yeah. So yeah. Okay. Oh, so the mouse would recover for? For more than two weeks. Two weeks. And then you would go again? Yeah. Okay. Okay, okay. Okay. I think that's the best way that we can record the signals. That's the best way. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Of course, we can also do the imaging. You know, we can use the two-photon microscope to imaging the brain. But the two-photon microscope, you can not work on very deep and very deep. You can image in the cortex, for example. Mostly cortex. Cortex, but not very deep. But you use this kind of photometry. You can insert the fiber in very deep, deep brain center so that you can recover this. Yes, yes, yes. Interesting. Yeah. Okay, and then what were you doing to the mouse? You were just watching, okay, as it's going to sleep, there's more adenosine. And you were, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, now that's the first time that we can enable us to monitor the adenosine dynamics in real time during your sleep and wake cycles. So we also have some interesting findings because we have this kind of new technologies. Usually they will give us some new findings. For example, the paper is not published. For example, I want to give you some information that, because the mouse, during sleep, they have two kinds of, two classes of sleep. They call the REM sleep and non-REM sleep. The REM sleep, like the human, they are dreaming, right? During the REM sleep, actually, using the traditional method because they're dreaming, you really have a very short period. So using the previous method, you cannot, it's difficult to recall the adenosine levels during this REM sleep. But with our genetic tools, we can monitor them in real time. So that's, we can know what's happening here during the REM, during the mouse's dreaming. We have some very interesting findings. We are collaborating with the collaborators at Shanghai as I introduced with you. So one thing I want to emphasize is, for different scientists, usually they have different expertise, right? So for us, we are good at deriving this kind of optical, the genetic tools for the neuroscientists. But people, other neuroscientists, for example, they are good at understanding the brain in the circuitry level, for example. Some of them, they want to know what happens in the pathological conditions. So we want to collaborate with different experts in the field, yeah. So that's why I went to Shanghai, because in this group, they are good at in vivo recording, yeah, optical recording. So they are also experts in the sleep and awake studies. So that's why I went there. I want to apply our sensors in the in vivo conditions to prove our sensor can work in the in vivo conditions. And that's the use of this sensor. We hope we can get some new findings, yeah. So I think collaborative with others is very important. Yes, yes. So you take this, and the adenosine sensor itself or these pure, pure energic sensors themselves are a combination of, what again? The combination of the virus that you were talking about that enables you to do the sensing and also then the optical method recording. So it's both the virus that gets applied into the in vivo condition first and then the optical recording that comes. So that's the sensor package. Yeah, the sensor actually I package it in the virus. So that you can use package in the virus. So that you can use the virus to infect the neuron. So that the sensor can express in the neuron. The sensor is packaged in the virus and you said it's genetically encoded. So then you, do you edit the virus? So that it, that when it gets expressed by the neuron then it enables the optical imaging. So you had to edit this virus to make it, to do the sensing. But we can also use. And genetically encode the virus. This virus is, they have such kind of a pseudo type. So, you know, they can carry these sensors. You can change different sensors. So the virus can carry these sensors until you infect the neuron until you stress this kind of sensors in the neuron. Does that make sense? Say it one more time. So the virus, so you can package this virus, the sensors, different sensors for example, the dinosaur sensor, the calcium sensor, the ATP sensor, all different sensors. You can package it individually in the virus. Cool. So the virus can carry this kind of sensors and to infect the neuron. So that the sensor can express in the neuron. Cool. So the virus actually, and we use this virus as a tool to carry our sensor. Yeah. The virus is used as a tool to carry the different sensors for a denicine or ATP, et cetera, into the neurons, which then gets expressed, which then makes them able to be imaged. Yeah. Okay, this is cool. Yeah, I think we shouldn't talk too much about the virus. We'll make people worry about that. Well, sometimes when we talk about the viruses, sometimes people say that the virus is you have to fight against the immune response, there's an immune response by the body, you have to fight against that. Then sometimes the virus, I heard different viruses only last for whatever, a couple weeks or months or whatever, and then they just fade away. So for the neuroscientists, we engineer, not us. So the people have engineered this kind of virus to make it very safe. So that we can use the virus to carry out the genes we want and to infect the cells, including the neurons. Yeah, so they are very safe because they are engineered. Also, they are widely used for the neuroscientists. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, but I think people, they don't know too much about that. People will be scared about this kind of virus, right? But if it's engineered like you said specifically to carry a tool for research and also that it's being done on mice for now and then we can prove maybe that it can be done with humans and it can be done safely, this is good. It's hard to test if it's safe because it has to be several years down, you have to see if there's any effects. It's very hard to tell. Yeah. Okay, how about the most interesting applications of this? So, okay, you build these pyronergic transmitter sensors and then you have, what are their uses besides in vivo imaging? Where do you want to see this used? What could it be optimally used for? Okay, that's a good question. So, we are developing these kind of tools. We wanted to solve some problem to answer some questions. For example, I think for, as I introduced, the denizen signaling or the pyronergic signaling, they are very important for not only the physiologic conditions but also for the pathological conditions. So, I think the last question is also very interesting and very important is what happened or what's the dynamic change of this kind of pyronergic transmitters in the pathological conditions such as during the epilepsy? Whether the denizen release is changed or not, we are the denizen change, dynamic change. So, actually we still have no answer. So, also I introduced the denizen also very important for the Parkinson's disease, right? So, during the Parkinson's disease, the dynamics of denizen, how did the denizen dynamics change? So, next I think we will apply our sensors not only in the physiologic condition but also in the pathologic condition to help us to understand the mechanism for the disease to happen. At least from the pyronergic transmission perspective. So, that's I think the implications of this. This is interesting. So, the big part is the understanding the mechanisms of disease, pathology, developing of physiology first and then the pathology. Pathological. Yeah, yeah, interesting. Okay, so right now is the physiology study. We have some preliminary data in the epilepsy. So, now we demonstrate that our sensor can detect this denizen release during the epilepsy. Yeah, so in the future, maybe we can apply for more disease model. Exactly, yeah. Because the, we want to know regarding neurotransmission, we want to know about where the miscommunications are happening, where the diseases are happening, the pathologies are being developed. So, by building these sensors for all of the different neurochemicals, then you can best understand how disease is developed. Exactly, exactly. That's what our lab are trying, spend a lot of effort on developing the tools to monitor this kind of neurochemicals. Yes, yes. Including the pyronergic transmitters. Yeah. Yes, yes. So, ideally, down the line in the future, let's say that the Lee lab and many of the other labs, your work and many other neuroscientists work across the world, enables us to have the full chemo-connectomics of the brain, okay? What will we be able to do? I guess first is what would be the tool that would let us do the full chemo-connectomics. What would be the ideal neuroscience tool for that? And two, when we have that tool and we have the full chemo-connectomics ready all the time, what will that enable us to do? Prevent disease, stay healthy, be smarter. What will it invent to students? First, the tool, second, what will it enable us to do? From my perspective, I think first, if you want to make some change, for example, you want to be smarter, smarter, want to be more smart, or you want to kill, to treat the diseases. The first step is to know, so which kind of neurosurgery, which kind of chemicals, they are controlling this kind of be smart. For example, controlling the learning on the memory or controlling the malfunction of these kind of diseases. So the first, I think you should know the mechanism, how the brain works first, that's the first step. Then you will know what changed in the disorders, right? So I think the first step is to understand the brain and then to change the brain, right? So I think to understand the brain is the first step. So we need some tools, we need these kind of imaging tools. So when you have these sensors, for example, you should have the microscope, or the optical imaging tools, right? Not only the sensors, but also the microscope, right? Also how to deliver these tools in the brain. You should have these kind of tools that you can deliver. For example, the virus as I introduced. So yeah, so after these kind of tools, sometimes maybe you can only work in the model system, in the Drosophila, in the mouse. And that's how to use, when you understand the brain, after you understand the brain in the model system. So that's consistent in the human brain, right? So you should also have these tools that can imaging, or you can know what happens in the whole brain, especially in the human brain, right? So I think that we are trying effort to understand the brain, a different neuroscientist that we work on different aspects. So we are trying to make us to know the brain, to understand the brain, and then make some change or to treat the disease. Yeah, that's my understanding. Yeah, yeah, okay. So the tool set is so important for us to understand the brain, to have that chemo-connectomics of tool set first. Then when we have it, then it's enabling augmentations, healthier brain states, all these types of things happen. How about, now that we have the exponential technology, H happening, the democratization of so many of the information technologies, what do you think is a skill that young people should know around the world? I think the first thing is you should have your own thoughts. Yeah, you know, I think it's very important to think and the ability to learn. We have a lot of informations. You can learn from others, also from experts, for example, also from the senior person, or from your peers, from collaborators. So the ability to learn is also very important. So I think two things. First, you have your own thoughts. Second, you should have the ability to learn. I like those two. Yeah, those are very good. Especially in a world where we're constantly having information come at us to be able to understand which one is the most important for me to learn. Yeah, for me to take in. And then how about collaborating across the world? How can we increase collaboration for both scientific research, but also just increasing global harmony? How can we best do that around the world? I think for the collaboration, firstly, you should have an open minding. You should, you know, when you collaborate with others, you should be open. You know, sometimes you had something, you don't know all of what you are doing to them. So I don't like this kind of. So you should talk what you have and to know how to, to know their expertise and ask them for help. And I think the most important is open minding. You should have an open minding. Yeah. I like that a lot. Open minding is so important and it also makes it easier for us to know that we can learn something from everyone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You should let people know what you have, what you need. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like that. How about what do you think is the meaning of life, of this big human experience? What is the point of it? There's another very big question, right? Yeah, difficult to answer. The meaning of life. I think for me, as you can call me a young scientist, right? Yeah. So I think from my perspective, so first I should do my, you know, work. So, I think you should be a good person first. Yeah. So to be a good people, you know, be kind to others, right? Yeah. That's the first. As a human, you should be a kind person. Yes. As a scientist, I think, you should have your own, I don't know how to say, to not cross the road, cross the lines. Oh. You know, you should kind of conclusion based on your result. Oh, yeah. Be scientifically accurate. Yeah, be scientifically accurate. And, and scientifically, oh, honest. Be honest, yeah. As a human and as a scientist, you should be honest. So after that, you can think about the meaning of your life. Right. So I think that's the first step. You should be, be kind and be honest. Yeah. And next I think if I can do something, you know, for example, as a neuroscientist, if we can do something, you know, but it can have us to understand how the brain works, what happens in the diseases. So I think if I can do something in my whole life, that can have us to understand these kind of questions, I think that will be very meaningful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Another thing I think as a scientist, you know, sometimes when you are communicating with each other, you know, it's difficult to know every person, right. But what we can learn is from their published papers. Yeah. So that we can know their works. So sometimes when you read a lot of people, a lot of papers published by one person, you will meet him. You will feel, wow, it's you. It seems that we are familiar with each other, you know. So I think that's very excited, you know. I read a lot of paper, for example, from the big name in the field. When I meet him, I will think, wow, I know him, although maybe he don't know me, right. So I know him. Mentor. I think that's very interesting kind of thing for as a scientist. So we have our own way to communicate. When you know the real person, that will be amazing. Yeah. And then how about consciousness? Do you feel like consciousness is part of our biological phenomenon that comes up? Do you think consciousness may come from somewhere and take its seat in the body? What do you think? I think I have no idea for the consciousness. But I think we should think in a scientific way. Not the God. I'm not sure. But as a scientist, I think we should know. I have no idea. This is a very hard one too. We love asking about consciousness. It's such an interesting one. And then how about do you feel like we have free will? I think so. And why? I don't know. I have no idea. I have no idea. But you think so. And what do you think is the role of love in life? The role of life and love. Sometimes when I work in the lab, I love this kind of doing its experiment for example. When you I think the work is a part of my life. Do you think that's a good answer? Yeah. I also feel lots of love when I do this. To me this is love. Doing something you are interested in makes you happy. You will feel love. Sometimes doing the experiment is difficult. You cannot get a good result. Most of the time we have a lot of failures. At that time if you go back home, my wife she can give me a hug. I will feel love. I think both the work and family they are all very important for me. The family is also very important. The family is also love. The spouse or the child, these are love. Husband, wife, child these types of things. What do you think is the most beautiful thing in the world? As an undergraduate when I have a class our teacher usually shows us a lot of pictures for the bacteria or for the fungi. So we can see the fungi with a large scale. They are very beautiful. The fungi is also very beautiful. But if you think our brain is also very beautiful. The neurons they have this kind of cell body these neurons these dendrites, the axons they can send very long projections from one to another. So if you can label the neurons with different colors it looks like a like a ball, we call it a brain ball. I think of the brain ball I think of these brain communications if you can visualize this brain communication brain cells, I think that's a very beautiful part. As an undergraduate I think of the fungi, these bacteria they are very beautiful in micro, in a very small world very small scale if you enlarge this scale they are also very beautiful. For the brain if you can visualize this neuron communication these neurons I think they are also very beautiful. I agree this has been such a fun conversation thank you very much for coming on our show thank you so much this has been very enlightening this is a really interesting subject pure and energetic transmitter sensors and also what the applicabilities are for our future for understanding the physiology and the pathology of it and having better health over time and just building better tools for understanding the brain congrats on all of the great work so far but I think I have not been published yet so I hope I can publish our work so that the people all over the world if they are interested they can use these kind of tools to understand the brain yes so keep going this is really great the publishing of new tools for brain research can then inspire more scientists around the world to use those tools or also to make new tools themselves I totally agree this has been super fun for those who want to get involved let us know your thoughts in the comments below thank you very much for tuning in we really appreciate it we'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments below on the episode we'd love for you to check out the links in the bio below have more conversations with your friends, family coworkers, people online about pure and energetic transmitter sensors and about the subjects we talked about building these better tools for the brain and also support the artists, the entrepreneurs whether you believe in support them, help them grow support simulation art show you can find all of our links in the bio below to support us and go and build the future everyone manifest your dreams into the world we love you very much, thank you for tuning in and we'll see you soon peace peace and love that's it, that was really fun I had a really good time I also had a very good time that's the first time communication good, good