 Welcome to what the F is going on in Latin America and the Caribbean code peaks weekly pro YouTube program of hot news out of the region. In partnership with friends of Latin America, Massachusetts peace action and task force on the Americas. We broadcast every Wednesday at 730pm Eastern for 30pm Pacific on code pink YouTube. On Sunday, March 13, Colombians voted for a new Congress and also cast ballots in presidential primaries to choose party candidates for the May presidential contest. As opinion polls had indicated, leftist Senator Gustavo Petro emerged as the current leader in the race for the presidency. But nearly all votes counted. He won the primary for the historical pact, a coalition of left wing parties with 80% of the more than four point five point, excuse me, 5.4 million votes cast in its primary. In Colombia, a coalition of conservative groups drew 3.9 million voters to its primary, which was one by Federico Gutierrez, a former mayor of Medellin, and was criticized some aspects of the 2016 peace deal with revolutionary armed forces of Colombia. One of the most centrist parties, known as the hope coalition, got 2 million votes in its primary, which was one by mathematician Sergio, who also ran in the 2018 presidential election, joining us today from Colombia is physician, professor, writer, humanitarian worker, journalist, and I will say friend, Victor Korea logo. Welcome, Victor. So happy to have you back with us. Some of our audience may recognize you from reporting on the national portal with us last year. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be again talking to you after the national strike, of course, and the idea today is to share with you some of my impression preliminary impressions about this election that happened the last Sunday. This start saying like the most important is what the meaning of this election right now in Colombia. As you may know, Colombia had a peace process few years ago. The current government promised to destroy this peace process, and they have success in this task. Unfortunately, the killing of a former member of the gorilla group who decide to sign the agreement, the lack of implementation. The lack of violence in Colombia has increased separately. For instance, the number of IDPs, the internal displaced persons, the killing of leaders of the civil society. And in general, the poverty and the gap between the rich and the poor people is a big issue. In this context, the has been the country during decades, but especially the last years. We started a big confrontation in the strike in the streets was the national strike who was impressive. If you compare with our own history in Colombia is not easy to remember one day like that. You know, it was like months of mobilizations confronting the police forces. But the most important was how the society joined the protest, how the society was that doesn't tell you maybe you remember not like, you know, chairing breads, the coffee chairing breads, you know, all the, the, the, there's more issues that they have, you know, like putting together on the table to work together a very scenario political scenario, part of this political experience, a has been reflected in the elections, we have a connection with a clear positions for one side we have a FICO Gutierrez Federico Gutierrez who is the right wing leader and a is an spectrum of people who want to continue the same administration that the, the current president. They have a clear agenda about neoliberalism about the militarization against the peace process, and we didn't know a single feeling to talk about the communities, the dialogue between the state and the society is practically useless with this current government in the, in the middle and the so called center that we have doubt to use the word center, by the way, it says some people who politically have the same structure they represent the elites. They represent the new liberalism policy, they love privatization but they use genes, and they have a long hair and you know they are like, like, let's say like hippies new age, 21 century. And this kind of speech didn't work as they expected, or the second, let's say the second block in the, in the election. And the third one was the historical pack in Spanish will be packed to historical I will mention in Spanish. The pack to historical a one was really amazing. And this is the first conclusion, the people want to change the political situation in Colombia. Most of the people both in favor, and the pack to historical was the is the leading organization in the Senate, as well as the, the camera means the Congress, the parliamentary power, the legis latter power. The most important political force in that moment is the pack to historical. Second one, we have also internally polls within the different political parties and one of them was the proctor historical to decide who will be the candidate for the presidential election. And in this took part in the, in the pack to historical five persons. The first one is Gustavo Petro who won with more than five million. Let me later I will explain why I don't say a complete number and the, the big success was a was done by Francia Marcus. Maybe you don't know who is Francia Marcus but the Colombian knows. I have met her several times you know in meetings about human rights in meetings about any issues. And in the national strike one year ago by the way I met her in the in Cali the demonstrations. She didn't want to be a protagonist she didn't want to be you know like the individual to take advantage of the, of the, of the stride. She really respected the commitment of the young people, and, and she was behind but so respectful. And I said in that occasion I say to Francia that she has three, four, four mistakes for weakness, let's say I say your weakness are your, your, your bad side are your good side, let's say in this way. I hope you understand my ironical way to mention no, no, don't don't judge me please. I say first of all you are a woman. Yeah, and this is a clear weakness in this country. You are a black woman. Third one you are a poor black woman, and a fourth you were born in a poor neighborhood. She's poor. Sorry, and she was a grow up in the, not in the downtown, not in Bogota, not in the political center, but in the regions, from the region, poor black woman, and she got, and she got more than 800,000 votes, it was amazing, really amazing. And you know that the, the, the media trying to create a confrontation between Petro who won the, he won the, the, the consultancy the internal consultant, and, and, and Francia were asking Francia what to do, and if she will be the vice president, or something like that, and, and Francia say no, I don't care, I can be a minister or vice president or nothing, it depends on what the people wants. So, my duty is not to get a job. My duty is to bring happiness to my people were really wonderful. Now, it was, it was really nice. Now the first conclusion is the, the break, the, you know, is the jump from the past, and to both for the historical, the second one, the huge support during the election to the name of Francia margin, and what she represents. The third one is the, these kind of people that I mentioned before the new age, you piece, he piece, they really failed in the idea to present the new the same moment, but with the new packet, they really couldn't exactly when your face, yeah, that's correct. That's correct. And the other thing is like the soul, some candidates from the past, they try to repeat the experience and they failed dramatically, what is really good. But the most important point that I would like to share with the, with the audience and of course with you, there is what happened in days in the last two days. And we have like a register list of a special documents to register the, the, the ballot, the ballot, and the problem is that this register has been a modify in the legal way. This the report given by Gustavo Petro and by another member of the Senate is really a huge issue. They calculate that around 26%, 26%, 26% of the ballot box has not reported a single vote in favor of the pact to historical. This is amazing. For instance, there was some reports of the, we have a special application form in paper called E14 and they have modified in order to be to delete the votes. This is not a small issue. It's a national scandal. You can follow the discussion in the, in the social nets, but the most important is, first of all, that has been a systematically issue. It's not an isolated case. You know that someone make a mistake wanted to write 11 and put 10 or 12. No, it's not matter one vote. The preliminary analysis is that we could talk right now about, I don't know, more than two million votes. Wow. It's like, yeah, imagine that the, for instance, the right wing candidate who only the internal poll with around three million votes is really amazing. We are talking about six seats in the Senate that are under discussion. And we see how the European Union and the other international observers published a report saying like the situation here is normal that there was a transparency election what we don't say any transparent election around at all. That means, first of all, that the, the, the left that is so cold left because, you know, when we talk about petro as we mentioned before 30 people believe that if you talk about social justice or social security or welfare state or to respect the Constitution is to be leftist. Exactly. Vladimir Putin, even some candidates say, you know, from P from Petro like P from Putin, they use this kind of, you know, analogies and we will become very Venezuela, you know, Petro is a social liberal guy. You can follow the doctrine of John Rawls. This is Petro Petro is not a socialist Petro is not a communist Petro is not the radical leftist that wanted to be presented by the narrative of the right wing. And despite this, the people. Well, one thing is the, the, the, the success of Petro and Francia Marx first point to be to take into account the second point is the level of fraud, we are talking about more than two millions of votes. The third one is how this fraud was elaborated in a systematically way. The silence of the international community. It happened the same in Bolivia, for instance, or happened the same in I don't know in another country. Right now, the, the headlines of the newspaper will be like fraud in X country but with as the country is Columbia, one of the most important allies of Biden. The other point that is really important is that we will have a presidential election in two months. If they have the capacity to implement this level of fraud, they will do the same in the, in the presidential election, for sure. And it put on the table on the debate, how strong, how serious, how respectful, respectful for the willing of the people is the democracy in Colombia. This is the big point is not only a matter of two million votes or 100 votes or is this is not the issue the issue before all is how serious is our democracy. How serious is our electoral system. How serious is the government to respect the freedom of speech because finally election is some way to a speech to deliver in the public arena. How respectful is the, the, the Colombian state to take really into account the willing of the people. That's the problem. Now we are suffering arm conflict, and it's difficult, I am favor of peace I have been really involved, try to push you know the different groups, armed groups in Colombia to give up the weapons and to enter that dialogue and the negotiation process, but it's really to some extent to say to these groups right now, well, use the electoral space, come to the political space, when you see like the political space is, is, is a joke. What is going on is the, the, the capacity of the elites to continue in the power but let me give you an example. I what we can think about Chavez. Finally, the traditional Venezuelan parties could pay an echo. They were ready to give up the power and to give the power to Chavez, even the elites, the white elites in a sucre Bolivia, they finally accepted the electoral of Evo Morales, the, the elites in Brazil, you know how right wing they are, they accepted the election of Lula, even in the in Chile, they respect the election and they recognize that they are borigs as a president. The question is, if you see the history of Colombia in the last 200 years, no one single democratic president has been elected, and something even horrible that I would like to share with with the, with the people in in, sorry, 1987, we were in the university, our candidate was the, our professor of law, a part of the, he was the candidate, and he got only 300,000 votes is nothing. He was killed. He was killed by the government, percentage that small, but it was the ideas they killed tried to kill the idea. Yeah, exactly. And three, and two years later, one leader of the central right spectrum called Luis Carlos Galán, he was killed. And now it's proven that in the killing of him was involved the police and the secret police and the security bodies of Colombia, the official security bodies. But later, the next year, 1990, after a huge peace process with the FARC in that time was created a political party called patriotic union, Unión Patriotica, and his candidate for the presidential election in 1990 was Bernardo Jaramillo. And in March, means in this month that we are talking right now, two months before the election, he was killed. And the other group who negotiated the peace process and gave up the weapon was the leader was Carlos Pizarro León Gomez, and he decided to give up the weapons and come to the election and sign an agreement with the government. In April, means one month after the killing of Bernardo Jaramillo was the killing of Carlos Pizarro León Gomez. He was president candidate, presidential candidate, as well as Bernardo, as well as Carlos Galán, as well as the law professor that I mentioned before, means the killing of several candidates, presidential candidates, few weeks before an election is not some is dramatically the situation. Now, some friends of mine used to say like Colombia is totally different that 30 years later, we have a strong democracy. Well, after this fraud, I cannot say that they have a big democracy. After the reappearance of the paramilitary groups, I cannot say like the right wing, the extreme right wing is not alive anymore, but we can see the rural area, the power of them. Once we see this level of killing, displacement, persecution, disappearance of person, I cannot say that the country is different from the past. Then I am afraid, honestly, really afraid that the right wing or that we call in Colombia the black handle that is so racist by the way, will try to kill Gustavo Petro. I'm really afraid of that. I don't can say like we are 100% that they will not happen. I'm afraid that it could happen. The elites are not the Venezuelan elites are not the Brazilian elites are not the Bolivian elites and they want to get the power to keep the power at any cost. And with the United States. Yes, they have this. I will give another element for the discussion, as you may know, some military, Colombia, Colombian troops were involved in the killing of the president of Haiti. None of my friends say Victor, please don't be pessimistic. They will not kill Petro because he said will be a huge scandal. And I say, well, what was the scandal after a Colombian member of former members of the army killed a current president in Haiti. Nothing happened. If you can kill someone outside, could you kill someone inside? Yes, you can do it. I think that it will produce an explosion of violence, national strike, maybe, but they will not avoid the elites to keep the power. I hope my dear that I am totally wrong. I hope they will not kill Petro. I hope they will not have another wave of violence in Colombia. I hope they will respect the election. I hope they will not try to commit a fraud again in the new election that will be, will take place in two months. But I see that the most that who won or who doesn't in the in the past Sunday election, the general perspective that should analyze that I, I bet the international community, I bet you as a part of this civil society. I call like solidarity civil society, solidarity international community, help us to prevent another way of violence in Colombia that the elites finally accepted the important to respect the election. As I mentioned, one year ago, talking about the National Strike, we propose you please push to prepare measures against the elites. I don't think that for me is not relevant, but for the elites is really horrible is to, to lose the visa you know if you cannot go to visit the Mickey Mouse this is really horrible for them. Please help us help with the companies the USA companies who are, which are working in Colombia to push to respect the result in the, in the election process, we will jump to the past several decades. And finally, Petro is killing or they committed a fraud in the way that allow the, the, the, the elites to continue in the power. You know, Victor. I have like 10 things I want to ask you about now. But one of the one thing you're aware of this and our audience is aware of this that I spent a good part of October, 2020, and through January of 2022 observing serving as an international election observer throughout Latin America, I think five or six elections, some legislative some presidential presidential, and the one thing I would say, particularly with Honduras, very similar con, you know, comments as yours, going into the elections in November and and of course her husband having been overthrown in 2009, there are a lot of similar calm, you know, comments, you know, will the right wing allow her, you know, to actually go to the polls and vote and have, and then, you know, when she did when will they even allow, you know, for her and they did trying to, you know, finagle some of her power in the national congressional national Honduras but one of the things that was really, really clear. And I would say this is also a theme from Sunday in Columbia is this need to build for non establishment non power elite candidates, the need to build a large coalition, a very large coalition so that when they win, they can win by a very large majority that cannot be contested, because, even with two million votes being questioned in Columbia, and, and, Petro, we think one by five plus million votes for him, you know, that's huge. He's one by such a large percentage that the fraud would have to be so grandiose which, I mean, we know people are capable of that, and even bringing in the LAS to, you know, but there was a, you know, this big coalition that he's created a significant and we saw the success of coalition building with Ammo in Mexico, with Shiamar Castro and Honduras in Bolivia that and, and, and, Petro seems to have that he seems to have built a large coalition but that cuts both ways because you have a lot of different political opinions inside a coalition to Yeah, but there is two things to be taken into account. The first one is that, to some extent, the damage is already done because the election last Sunday. It was to elect the legislative power, means the if it is true that the Pacto historical won the election in terms of the number of seats in the Senate and the camera. What is true is that could be a better and what is true is that the Pacto has not absolute majority then has to negotiate the draft of law every in every time. You know, this is not easy to govern if you have the part of the parliament against the president. This is one damas that this already done and second one. You're right. And I, I have here the different voices, including Francia Marquez and Gustavo Petro and another leaders working to establish agreement with another sector means more central sector let's say or, you know, aggressive or liberal sector in order to make bigger the coalition. But there is a discussion, because it's like, okay, I have to be in over is mad to to make bigger the coalition, but not to negotiate principles. What is the best option, you know, like, you know, like to get the balance is not an easy issue. This is one. And the other element to be taken into account is remember that four years ago Petro was a candidate presidential candidate. He was shooting in his car in the city of Cucuta in the north of the country nothing happened because his car was bullet proven. But in general, if they decide to kill Petro doesn't matter how big is the coalition or how nice his program or how, you know, inclusive is his policy. And this is a big issue. You don't have, you know, background of killing of presidential candidates in Brazil, or as long as I remember in Argentina or, you know, but if they decide the United States, I see, you know, yeah, exactly. But if you put together, you know, like they are applying different option they are not playing only the fraud or to break the coalition within the Petro sector. No, I see that they are putting all the possibilities on the table, and they will play according with the, with the, with the scenario. That's why I see that the political scenario in Colombia during the next two months is so interesting, but also we are worried, we are worried because it's not all also that I don't want to exaggerate but it's not only what happened is the right wing keep the power. What it will be a big issue, and we are really worried about that is the counter offensive in terms of the pension, illegal detention, disappearances killing of civil leaders and social leaders, once they can keep the power. This is part of the discussion. I mean not only my paranoia that you maybe know, but as some friends are that are even thinking in the in the same way, you know, is that what will happen with the, with the security of the leaders of the black communities the indigenous communities the farmers communities, once they keep the power for four years more. And this is, you know, I'm listening to you, you know, if you in Petro and Francia building, you know, a very large coalition, a majority coalition that say for so for that to be put down by the power elites, those people are currently in the country that would take an enormous, an enormous level of state repression, more than what's there now, more than what we bring the bottom national last year, enormous state repression to, you know, to negate, you know, a majority of the vote of the population and that would just be on the other hand, given the geopolitics that we were talking about before we went live. You know, in NATO and Russia right now, Columbia is a NATO global partner, the Biden administration just met with your current president I shouldn't say your present went with Duke and, you know, announced that Columbia is what you know is a, what's the term significant non NATO partner. So here you have your the current sitting president of Columbia. You're playing a role in NATO. Now, in. Yeah, but also is part of the discussion is tried to, we need a devil know, and we don't want to admit that we are the devil, the devil should be someone else to be some foreigner. What about Maduro. What about Venezuela. Yes. All the problems, what they buy all the violence in the, in the borders are the responsibilities Maduro himself. All the crisis is Maduro, all the, you know, and he's terrible because he's all these of narrative related to the Castro chavism is like, oh, everything is like people try to say like the Vladimir Putin is landing. And now some people try to say like Maduro is like the, like the extension like the hand of Russia in Latin America, then Columbia is obliged as a partner, no NATO friend. Yeah, exactly has to a, you know, act in in this accordance with this new title. Then for me really relevant but but what is also on the table is as you mentioned, well, is if Columbia is start to transit for four years of peace process. Looking for social justice for negotiation with the different actors, our actors, legal actors in Columbia, or go deeper in the world. I think that a, all these optimistic collected during the national strike. All these hope cultivated in the last months, all these hope that appeared in the election, despite the fraud last Sunday will be will compare into garbage. All these efforts will be really huge for the political history of Columbia. Then I repeat the expression that I have used already several times, you know, a new wave of violence can be the reality, the daily life of Columbia doing at least four years more if the right wing keep the power. What is, it's hard to imagine it could be any more violent and any more repressive than it already is, but you've seen it in your lifetime that it can be, and it's, and it's, it's pretty bad now. What is, is Gustavo Petros, Petros position on Columbia as a NATO global partner. What is his foreign policy vision. Let me summarize the Colombian foreign policy so far in one sentence is what Washington says. Just it. No, but, but it's true. We don't have border policy. We don't have migration policy is a shame. Now, what Petros say and the people around Petro is the need of to see the world as the world is. Not to believe that the, the, the center of the world is Washington. Well, in our case Miami, of course, and we are really important, you know, how the humanity are living in Asia. We are not relevant, but we don't want to recognize that we have to see the possibility of open markets in Asia in Africa, we can get a lot of exchange of culture, a sport. You know, all this kind of a human production, scientific production with Europe, we have to understand that the world is something bigger than USA. And I think that Petro is a man who is playing in this in this way. For instance, he was visiting Madrid, he was visiting the Vatican, he was talking to the pub. He was visiting some leaders in the European Parliament, despite that we know that the Europe is not a paradise, of course, but try to touch another area that doesn't appear in the current map of the international occupation of Colombia. Then I think that it will be a good thing. Now, if the right wing get keep the power, we will continue following what Washington say, but our position related Russia, the war in Ukraine right now. Our situation, our positioning around the occupation of Palestine, our position about the free trade agreements, everything that you mentioned in the international arena is exactly what Washington say is absolutely. It's a shame, it's a shame as a Colombian not to have its own political view of the of the world. You know, this own political view makes me want to say sovereignty. And one of the themes that I saw in the various election results over the past 14 months there were three things that were really clear and I would actually tie this to the national model last year in Colombia to was citizens voting for national sovereignty, meaning no US interventionism, economically, politically, militarily, voting for natural resource sovereignty, and voting themselves, governments that were creating economies for the people and breaking the neoliberal privatization model. Now, that's a whole spectrum of one step to the left, you know, center one step left to revolutionary left there's a whole spectrum of government in Latin America now, as a result of last year, but it really this sovereignty and this desire to do business to trade with whomever a country decides really it's a multi lateralism. It's multi lateralism that people are, and their nations are embracing. Yeah, but also what you mentioned you mentioned something really interesting about how to, you know, the level of corruption in the election and the break between your social and political and economical situation, your concrete economical situation, and the boat your boat doesn't exist a connection, then people can vote for a son pesos I'm talking seriously, Colombia you can buy illegally, I know, but publicly the to get the willing of the people in the in the in the elections. Today was a meeting with some human rights organization, and they create. They create a slogan, the slogan is choose the rights. I love it. I love it because it's exactly what the people need they need to choose the rights. You know, like, you are planning to vote. Okay, both for peace. You're voting for a food, both for your freedom. That's that's the discussion you know, and this is necessary to connect. And the people in Colombia really, you know, it's absurd the capacity to create a gap between your political will and your, your election, your, your, your decision in, in front of the, in front of the, of the ballot box. I remember once in Choco Choco is a really poor religion in the northwest of Colombia, and one small lovely old lady came to ask a question and an international observer. And the question is, how can I vote for two person at the same time. And the, the, the, the, the international services is not possible to choose one of them, only one. And the old lady said, yeah, I want to vote for this for a, but they pay me to vote for B. Then how can I do, but this is for me it's a clear reflect of the mentality, the incapacity to, to understand that for a few pesos mean, I'm talking seriously, $10, $10 American dollars, you can buy the, the, the decision as a citizen in the election process is really painful. But that, that's such a reflection of how bad the economy is for so many people, correct that $10. I mean that's not thinking oh I want to increase, you know, my income weekly monthly annually that's like I need to increase my income right now today, and this $10. Yeah, you're right, it reflects the lack of the lack of capacity to buy food, but also reflect the weakness of the democratic system, and the lack of confidence in the democracy as a system, but also the lack of controls by the government to guarantee the transparency of the election. This is more history show the different side, but also the capacity of some elites to buy your vote is not only that you want to sell your vote is that someone has enough money to buy. And this is not a small issue is a mafia. And once you consider that the electoral result is not, is not coming from the willing of people, but from the capacity to pay. There is no democracy at all. Well, we have that problem in the states to, you know, if you have money you have access to the system and access to financing candidates and you know, building the system that's beneficial to you with long as you have the money. Yeah, it's not. So, Victor, in our last few minutes, can you share with our audience what what can we do as as Latin America activists is progressive and leftist active Latin American activists what what can we do can we come to Colombia for the elections of May. Yeah, it will be great. It will be great. I think that the international organization joined together and come to Colombia to pressure for transparency is one step. The second one. I know that your, your program is not only watching but USA citizen but citizen from everywhere. Please talk to your embassies and say, sell emails to the embassy of the different countries in Colombia, demanding the transparency, especially the European there was a commission for the transparency of the election of servers in Colombia, please, they have to show in the report, what is going on really. The third one, I think that they will be great in the, I don't know the New York Times or Washington Post comes and reports about these huge fraud, the biggest one in the history of Colombia will be incredible. If you demand, and you, the transparency, as well as they do the international community in another countries will be great. In their inter American system of human rights also make a declaration related to, and will be great. Also, if publicly, we open the debate about the democracy and we used to say I want to say bye with this. Well, we used to say that democracy is not only an election. The democracy means justice democracy means the right of minorities beyond election. Democracy means many things, but in Colombia, democracy, not even means to respect the elections. This is a big lack of democracy lack of rural law in Colombia. That's why we really need you please help us. We will you've given us some good projects so I thank you so much for making time for this conversation today. And I look forward to talking to you in May, and hopefully some of us will see you in Colombia in May as well. And I want to remind the audience that you have been watching what the F is going on in Latin America and the Caribbean code pinks weekly YouTube program we broadcast every Wednesday for 30pm Pacific 730pm Eastern on code pink YouTube and don't forget to catch code pink radio every Thursday 11am Eastern broadcasting simultaneously at a New York City on WBAI and Washington DC on WPFW. Okay, everyone will see you next week. Thank you so much. Thank you Victor for terrific conversation always appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Well it was good.