 It's still the breakfast and plus stevia africa time for us to look at the second conversation now the senate has approved the amendment to the administration of criminal justice act the bill was passed on wednesday after consideration of a report by senate committee on judiciary human rights and legal matters the administration of criminal justice act dates back to 2015 during the administration of a former president of the federal republic of nigeria president goodlock ebele jonathan now legos at the time had in 2007 enacted the administration of criminal justice law which aims to achieve efficiency in the handling of criminal cases and in several states of course now several states have actually domesticated it i remember once upon a time where or juzo kalu uh chief whip of the senate had in 2020 proposed an amendment to the administration of criminal justice act after his release from prison following his conviction over money laundering now in december 2021 the bill seeks to make the administration of criminal justice act more effective and humane it was also seen through it passed through the second reading at the senate now during the public hearing on the bill in february that's in 2022 of course this is november among deliberations on the proposed amendment include that issues on fair hearing for suspects clearly spelled out court jurisdiction on criminal cases there's also at the time of presentation of the report ok payami bami delay the chairman of the senate committee on judiciary said that the bill makes provision for uniform sentencing policies and more restorative justice mechanism he listed the restorative justice mechanism to include victim offender mediation and suspended sentence and prohibition and community service he also said the section has established or had an establishment of an administration of criminal justice monitoring committee and has been amended to read establishment of the administration of criminal justice monitoring council to entrench the culture of fair efficient and effective criminal justice service delivery in nigeria and also to improve outcomes through active partnership it is also imperative that the extent are to be holistically reviewed to make all-encompassing provision they're also targeted at addressing the inherent challenges and the cost of implementation with respect to some judicial pronouncement on the subject matter now we have a guest joining us this morning jeffrey moa lemma uh he's a legal practitioner i hope i got your name correct yes very well it's what you have to do this morning good morning good morning thank you morning well i'd like to share your thoughts and you know the be asked the move by the senate to the senate yes yeah to amend the administrative criminal justice and do you think that this would actually help you know especially in terms of the reform of the sector okay um so in my opinion right the scgl scja whichever one in circumstance now the cga in circumstance yeah so it has in fact our criminal justice in general has always been in more of the retribution incapacitation and um you know the process that you know our criminal justice forgets the other end of justice which is um about um rehabilitation and um such like reparation so because of this i'm sure that is why the senate has looked at you know other jurisdictions like um like in the in the major countries like in the western words you know they have you know they have embraced this reparation and rehabilitation process so the rehabilitation is a process where the person after the criminal sentence you are supposed to be taking back into the society rehabilitation making you um more um efficient in the society what the other one you're talking about um where you reparation where you try to make amends to the family where probably that was a victim of the crime you know something so in this situation you're talking about like um a station where someone stole money you know and you have to return the money to the family you have to make contribution to the community you know you know looking at the um this is a community service that's part of the rehabilitation retribution um rehabilitation process so so i feel the the the the system has realized that we have come to a point where we need to get to this point and get all these things said so i think it's a good one you to you to further reform our our um judicial system and criminal justice system but but let's further talk about you know uh the administration of criminal justice in Nigeria one of the major issue i'm sure that you're very uh also in the know it's the issue of delay that's always delay so you have a case that can trickle it can take a lot of time and with all of this that has been you know looking at the parts that should be amended does this solve the problem of delay in administrating in administrating or giving out justice i won't holistically tell you what the senator is doing right now but then i'm sure this is part of what the senator is trying to achieve because um you see a delayed justice is a denied justice right so in this situation i'm sure the the new acj will work towards this because it has become um cannot be over emphasized it did for fast justice so the system needs to needs to work on this and i'm sure this new acj is going to work around it and in as much as the way of our legal system the procedures it's a bit um stringent on you know achieving justice where the justice where the system says there is better for um for you to lose for a thousand criminals to be on the road and sentencing an innocent person yeah now but i know that um you probably might just be careful we're just having a conversation yeah and i'd like to honestly share your opinion on the issue whether this amendment we've looked at you know the key areas and all that uh the senator's concerned with do you think that it addresses the issue of delay in administering justice okay right now um addressing delay in administering justice yes it will address it but um that's what i'm mentioning our system is a bit stringent it's a bit tight so there is a procedure right in as much as there's an scja the court has its own to follow to there's a process the lawyers has to follow the filing process the procedure of filing you go to court the prosecution makes its makes its case the defense make its case the procedure has to be there we can't avoid this procedure but then the best the system can do right now i'm sure is to make this this process faster so but i i i really i really hope the new procedure will actually address this i really hope so so it therefore means that it doesn't address it okay um we can't see uh let's let's let the people so why do why do i think that you're just trying to be you know politically correct you're you're just trying to play safe play safe um you know why because the act is not out yet right the act is not out so we are we are okay let them pass the reading first then let's see let's see that as we look at it we're looking at the component we're looking at the process i mean i have actually gone through uh all of the components or the content of the amendments all of the areas that should be tweaked yes yes yes and all of this is it looks very fantastic it sounds very brilliant but a major issue it's the issue of delay in terms of delivering because you have a case i mean there are several cases for instance um i have really forgotten now i hope to remember the uh um the king pain what's his name again we know how long that case trickled there are several cases that i see lingering you know you probably have an incident it would take three years four years what exactly and one would expect that if you know there would be an amendment to the administration of criminal act then it should you know cater for it should look at the issue of um delay you know corruption which i'm going to get to you so another issue again is there are a lot of challenges in the judicial system uh the another challenge is the fact that there's always a suppression of the executive arm of government the executive arm of government seem to be interfering uh that's number one the issue of corruption you can't take that away yes delay like i have mentioned so how do we now you know get over this okay especially when we look at this amendment not paying attention to these issues okay so basically right um i'll certainly tell you that um in as much as we are looking at scj which is supposed to be managing the administration of justice basically in Nigeria there are other processes which um which affects the procedure of having you know procedure of delivering judgment on the case so if you are mending an scj and there are procedures like okay look at section 36 of the constitution so for where it says a person has a right to begin to where the person has a right to a cuts you know and then you have a reasonable time where you have to be um your case has to be educated excuse me so because of some of these procedures you cannot just jump um the procedure of um giving judgment in courts you understand so so that's why scj cannot just do all the job in this situation here but then i agree with you very well this is a very vital area i mean like i said before um justice delays justice denied so yes i agree with you very well and i hope so it's it may make one or two tweaks you get me you may make one or two tweaks but it may not completely address the issue of time and delay because there are other processes there are court processes which cannot be removed from the process yeah so let's also talk about some of it that um the essence of all of this is that it would entrench the culture of fair efficient and effective criminal you know justice service delivery in niger and uh for instance i i'd like you to share your thoughts because one of the issues that we have in niger one of the things that have been called very permanent is the obedience or you know obeying court orders obeying the law and and so when you have the arms arms of government that should respect the law that should understand the dynamics or you know of the law but sometimes are contrary to all of it for instance you look at the issue of defamation uh defamation as a recent case amino uh mohammed and that's of aisha buhari okay right in that particular case there were reports that he was arrested even before you know he was arrested tortured and however it is is not even being granted bail and all of that and so with the kind of system that we practice even when we have the laws in place already even when we should understand the law do you think that you know amending the um administrative criminal justice would help anything would people act in accordance to the law okay well um you know executive power is um yeah i see that as the ultimate power in the you know the three arms of government right so it's the best thing the best thing we can have is our executive system respecting the law having to following the rule of law everybody's nobody's above the law you understand so um the executive system has executives have always um have always taken judiciary for you know for a ride most of the times so but then this is not something we can address in one day right so um this the the ACGA quite alright will make amends in most of these areas but i trust me these are these are things written in paper it is left for us for the executives to obey and follow the rule of law so i i hope i hope we get to a better Nigeria where we get people where the executives understand that the law and the rule of law is something we must follow so yes i hope this is part of the amendments too but the executives are a power on their own yes remember but if you want to further have that conversation that's why you have the three arms of government yes exactly and that's why you have you know the if you say you have the executive that's why you have the legislative judiciary to check the excess exactly that's where the principle of checks and balances comes in so that you don't have an arm of government overly being too powerful would it therefore mean that in the administration of you know justice administrative justice uh that the other arms of government are not doing their duties well yes most most arms of government um okay let me not say they're not doing their duties right because uh you still get criminals in prison right there are still criminals in prison there are people being arrested every day and um that's the executive right now and there are laws being made this is the amendment so and then the judges are sitting okay see so these are these three arms actually working right so but then when there are powers that influences the decision of the judgment or whatever it's a different thing all together but trust me these arms are working so all we are looking at is having a system where everybody understands the rule of law and follows the rule of law we can write all the laws we have in papers we can write we can have the best laws but then trust me the only reason why the westerns are the way they are and how their country is to this because they follow the rule of law so we cannot we cannot let me put it that way because um I think every Nigerian is guilty of this cannot keep jumping the gun you know avoiding the law and making him learn and there and expect the system to be clean so it starts from every other person so but then I agree with you that the legislature is executives are actually on top of this ladder and that's why you have you know the other arms of government so we definitely mean that the excesses of the executive is not properly checked and that's why some people say that on top of the lease for administrating or you know chunking out criminal justice is that the executive suppresses the system they seem to be on top of it but what happens to the legislative arm of government was there to check the excessive of the executive and you know the judiciary as well and another issue also is the issue of corruption how has the system not poured itself entirely but we're costing this conversation down now I'd like you to share your thoughts generally overview what do you think can be done you know to improve the system okay so like I like my first advice the rule of law should be taken very seriously that's the first thing everybody nobody's above the law everybody below the law so that's the first thing then secondly we need to have a system that is most urgent you know where the legislative and of government can act without you know in fact let me say it this way the legislative arm of government have to be independent that is the first thing and then you have you also need to have people with clean records in the system so this affects the system too I don't want to start mentioning names but um look at the um you see it look at the process some of the people there um are trying they're trying to move some of these motions are in one case or the other do you think they don't you think that we bias in their decisions in trying to do the make the sjl and trying to make it favor them so the system is corrupt right from the roots so the first point of contact is making sure that these people making these laws and are the cleanest people are the cleaner people in the society I mean pick the best hands in the society we can't keep closing our eyes to the reality of life and keep saying oh anybody can be this anybody he was that was him before this is was him now so we need a system where um will I use the word good people here good people are in power so this will go a long way to clean the system well that's so much that we can take thank you so much Jeffrey thank you sir Jeffrey has been with us this morning he's a legal practitioner we just take a break and when we return we'll be talking sports right here um sports journalists joins us Monday thermals hopefully be still with us