 Hello everyone and welcome to today's webcast, how to engage your audience between online events. My name is Sarah Gonzalez, I'm from Redback Conferencing and I will be your host today. Now the goal of any revenue generating department is to consider how we generate customers, how we grow lifetime value and also how we create more brand advocates. This also rings true when we talk about our webinars and webcasts, not only how we host them, but how we can continue to nurture people throughout the cycle and as an organisation remain front of mind at any given time. We're joined by Mike Wingfield, so he's the head of sales development APAC for Mike Head Oat Australia. How are you today Mike? I'm wonderfully well. Thanks Sarah. Are you excited? I'm super pumped. You know that I'm on a codeine cocktail at the moment, so loving the beginning of autumn. You've only got 45 minutes to get through and I promise it'll be painless. I'll try and stay on track. So we talk about engagement and I know a lot of people are sick of hearing this word, but I think there's no other word to really describe it. Is it? That's exactly what you talk about every single day when you go into work. So a little bit about Mike Head Oat engagement, nurturing what it all means and how it ties into what we're talking about today. Yeah, that's fine. So I think the big thing for us is really focusing on moving marketing departments and marketing people away from that concept of being interactivity generators. We get people coming to our events. We get people looking at our content. We really want to make sure that people are engaging with our content. How can we make sure that people are moving through some sort of journey that we're putting them through, whether it's an educational journey, whether it's a buying journey. We really want to make sure that we're able to track and measure the efficacy of not only our events, but our marketing campaigns in general. So it's kind of moving that I call it the shift from the graphic and media department to creative geeks. We really want to get data driven marketing. So when we talk about our online events in particular and we talk about nurturing people throughout every single event that we're holding, what does that actually mean? Yeah, so I think like I was saying before, when we talk about the buyer journey, the quest of every revenue team or marketing team is really what you were talking about before. How do we acquire more new customers? How do we grow the lifetime of those existing customers? And ultimately, how do we build more brand advocates? So that's one of the big things that we're talking about today is when we look at the events that we run, why are we running them? And what are we doing in between those events to really track the efficacy of those campaigns? What content are we sharing with our audience after an event to really think about how are people consuming this information based on what they do? So if someone comes to an event, they start downloading information afterwards, are we as marketers able to see that they're actually downloading white papers, they're going back and interacting on the website? I remember years and years and years ago working for an organization where we'd run a webinar and then afterwards we'd simply wait and see if there was any inbound inquiries. And this is really the shift that we're trying to help organizations make is how is it that we're engaging with our audience? And what is the definition of an engagement? It's helping people move through the buying journey and ultimately come to some sort of outcome. So that's what we talk about with engagement marketing. How can we make that work better? It's really how do we move them along the funnel? Yeah. And what about people out there who aren't necessarily running webinars or webcasts for lead generation purposes? What do you say to that? There's a lot of people out there and I think we've done some research recently and found out that the majority of people still are joining webinars and webcasts for education and training purposes. So how does that all play into this as well? Because obviously a new customer isn't necessarily the top of an organizer's mind in that circumstance. Yeah, 100 percent. And I think that's what comes back to things like scoring the engagement that someone has as you go. So if someone comes onto an event, really we're running an event to become thought leases or be thought leaders where they're to educate the market on whatever it is that we're able to educate them on. In this circumstance, it's engagement marketing. How do we measure the impact and the efficacy of each individual participant from that event? And how do we grade and understand where they are in their journey? Is this someone perhaps just an early touch stage? Have they Googled, read that, conferencing, for instance, and come onto our website? And have they then registered for that event? And can we see that they're very early stage in their engagement? Now, once again, that doesn't necessarily have to be because they're a revenue potential customer. It could be if you're running, I think we were talking before, about HR departments. If I'm a HR department and I'm running, let's say, an internal webinar, an internal webcast, how do I understand the engagement of my audience? Can I see that people are attending for the entire lifecycle of the event? Are they asking questions? Are they jumping onto the white papers or the information that we're sending them? So it's really being able to track and trigger certain events based on what people are doing. Yeah, and I think to that point, the big thing we're talking about here is really your return on investment. I think a lot of times people actually launch into webinar programs or webcast programs, and they don't actually know what their return investment is. And my return investment might be different to your return investment and might be engagement as opposed to leads or it might be revenue. But if we're not actually a lot of people, like you said, they're in a webinar, the webinar shuts down. If they didn't get the return investment, all right, that's it. But they really don't understand everything that goes around that. And I might be down the buying cycle a lot later than you might. So that's exactly what we're talking about here. Yeah. And that ties into acquire, grow and build. Yep. OK, great. Now, the numbers on the screen. You know, I love numbers. So enlighten me. Yeah. So, you know, one of the big things that we understand is that every day you've got 2,900 marketing messages that are vying for your customer's attention. Of those, you've probably got about 42 that people are even going to notice and five that are going to be positively received. So what we look to see is how can we stand out from the crowd? How can we personalize the information that we send our audience so that, you know, it's behavioral driven. If you've done something, if you've attended a webinar and then you are a little bit further down your buying journey, how do we pivot the engagement of content? Or I should say the flow of content that goes to you that's really going to help nurture you along your journey. 80% of a buyer's journey is self-directed. I mean, think about the last considered purchase you made. And not long ago, I bought a car. Before I bought that car, I had looked at all the comparative cars. I looked at the cars in the similar range. I looked at the price. I downloaded the online brochure. I was going on YouTube, watching if Top Gear had had that car on. I'm doing everything I can to really solidify my choice as a prospect. So as a marketer, I want to have as much influence over that 80% as possible. I want to make sure, A, I can see where you're at in that journey by scoring and understanding what you're doing without necessarily having a salesperson pick up the phone and say, hey, where are you in your buying journey? I really want to understand how you're consuming the information that I'm sending you. At the same time, as a marketer, I want to create a marketing and sales alignment. I really want to make sure that if I'm generating this interest and I'm moving people along the funnel, how can I then notify the sales team at the right time, based on where you're at in your journey, so that they've got the best opportunity to convert and control that remaining 20%? So it's really, as a marketer, how can I measure the efficacy of my campaign? How can I pass that information onto the sales team and really give them the opportunity to convert as many of those leads that are coming through? So every 7% of people demand a more meaningful experience with a brand. So if you treat me as an individual, if you change the flow of content that comes to me based on what I do as opposed to who I am or the old days of mass marketing and direct marketing, this is what we call multi-touch attribution and multi-across-channel marketing. If you're on a mobile device, am I changing the conversation that I'm having with you then? If you've just attended a webinar, do I start sending you follow-up information based on the fact that you did attend that webinar and automatically start getting you locked in for those future webinars? That's probably a good segue. And if anyone does have any questions, please feel free to type them in. I've got the iPad here, so I can refer them straight to Mike. Make them as out of scope as you like. Yeah. I guess it's time to put you on the spot. Yeah, when you're always off the beaten track, will you like? So when it comes to the type of content, so someone registers for a webinar, they may or may not attend. Obviously, there should be different content that goes out. Once that is over, what sort of content are we talking about sending people? Is it just a matter of sending them emails, just asking them questions all the time? Is it a matter of sending them information or white papers? What are the types of content that we're talking about here, just for people who are really quite new to this? Yeah, no, that's fine. I don't think there's a wrong answer there. Yeah. You know, I think it's... And think of every top of funnel marketing campaign that you run. Is it your SEO campaigns? Is it your sponsored ads on online? Is it newspapers? Is it a white paper? Is it another webinar? Is it a YouTube video? It really doesn't matter. What we're trying to do with engagement marketing is we're able to monitor the behavior of people online. So for people who know what the technology of engagement marketing is and the process of engagement marketing, it's essentially a tracking code that will sit on the website and it will start monitoring people's behavior based on what they do. As soon as they identify themselves, you're then able to track that behavior and see how is it they're moving around our website. At the same time, we create behavior scores based on what they're doing. So it really doesn't matter what campaign you run. What you're able to do though is run a campaign and then watch what is it that people are doing. And from there, you learn and you grow as a marketing department into what information do we really want to send these people to see how they're engaging. So what we talk about is the ABCs of marketing. Yeah, let's go into this because I'm curious. So the A is really, you want to treat your audience as an individual. B is based on what they do. C, continuously over time and that's opposed to a point in time. It's always, you want to be changing the flow of information with people throughout their journey. You want to adjust it, you want to monitor what is it that they're doing and whereabouts are they in their life cycle? If someone doesn't buy today, that doesn't necessarily mean they're never going to buy. If they don't engage today, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're never going to engage, attending a webinar, whatever the case may be. Now this engagement, this is really the important one. D is directed towards an outcome. Every marketer, every HR department, anytime you run an event, anytime you run any kind of marketing campaign, you've got to think about what is the end result we're looking for? You know, at Marketo, we talk to CEOs and CIOs and the disparity between their opinion of events and things like that, that is quite often it's a cost center. You know, that's just costing me money. I have no idea what the return on investment is if I run an event. And that's really where we're challenging marketers to think of themselves more as a revenue-generating department and have every event directed towards some sort of outcome. And that is everywhere they are. So we also want to track where do you go from, you know, the event? Are you jumping on and reading your emails on a mobile device? Are you consuming your media through our website? Are you downloading our white papers? Regardless of which channel you are, can we understand your overall buying journey and where you're kind of consuming the media? Yeah, and I guess a lot of this also ties into fact when we are talking about webinars and any sort of online event that we run, it is quite saturated for marketplaces, isn't it? So, and I talk to this all the time, I get so many invitations for free webinars coming up and it's like, oh, well, you know, who do I go to? What do I do? If I'm constantly being nurtured in between each webinar and I know that it's coming from a credible source, they're engaging me, they're tracking my behavior, they're sending me useful content that I can use and they understand me, then I'm going to be much more inclined to register and attend for their webinar. And that will also drive attendance rates, I think, in the long run, because that's something we're all struggling with. Yeah, 100%. But in terms of this content, and we just touched on these ABCs and we're continuously providing people with this content, how do we do that? Because we're all under resource, we're all really, really busy, we don't have enough time. Is it about mass producing all these content, making sure it's all done, then sent in and out or what's the right way to do it? Because surely we don't all have time to produce pieces of content in that. I think it's really about looking for quick wins. You know, we might just send one email or we might send out a newsletter. But once we've got the technology that can help you understand and monitor what's happening behind that, that's what's really enabling you as a marketer to adjust your content accordingly. So let's say you send out a follow-up email to all participants, but you might personalize it just a little bit. So if someone's title reads, let's say, sales manager or procurement manager, we might adjust the content that you receive in that follow-up email ever so slightly. You might change the picture, you might change the act now response down the bottom. And it's really giving your audience that perception that you're treating them as an individual and it's based on the fact that, hey, I just attended that event, so I'm now receiving this content. It's a lot more relevant to me. And that's why the content itself doesn't necessarily matter as much as the intent and the engagement behind it. What am I really trying to get you to do? We're not just looking for inbound inquiries anymore. We're not measuring the efficacy. And when you were saying before, how do I track the ROI of an event? It's not just how many inbound inquiries do I get? How many contact us do I receive from that event? It's suddenly, if you've got, say, 10,000 leads and you run an event and of that event, 500 people turn up or register, I should say, because we only get, what, 70%, 60% attendance rates most of the time, how do we then look at that 60% and see what they do? You might get nobody fill out a survey, nobody fills out a contact us form, yet they've all gone onto the website. Of that, say, 30% have actually downloaded content that would show a buying behavior. If I was a salesperson or a marketer, I'd look at that activity and go, that's actually a talking point. Have I got their email address? Can I communicate with them? Well, yes I do. Have I got their phone number? Well, in some circumstances, yeah, they've actually provided that and this is all how it ties back into your CRM or your customer relationship management system. So as a salesperson, I'm suddenly not looking at a contact me form. I'm looking at a customer who's downloaded multiple white papers. They've got buying behavior on the website. They've been to our pricing page. They've consumed more and more information. They've attended a few of our events and they're showing a buying behavior. Yeah, I look at the activity next to the salesperson. No one's interacted with them because they haven't done a contact us. So this is where we're actually identifying leads within our overall database in terms of who stands out, who's further along the buying journey than perhaps a traditional lead and what do we do with that information? And that's where you really start having deeper, richer conversations with your prospects because you're actually treating them based on what they do as opposed to, hey, thanks very much for sending me an inquiry. I'd love to sell you my product. Yeah, exactly. And we've got a question from Sharon. So you just touched on sending people out the information after a webinar happens. So Sharon runs regular events and they always send the recording email out just as a blanket email. What do you recommend we include on these emails and how should we target them to individuals? So in terms of including what you would include in those emails themselves, the content itself, as I say, I can't stress enough that the content doesn't matter so much in terms of what you put in those events. It's really about setting the act now. What do you want them to do? Think about the outcome, Sharon, in terms of what do you want them to do beyond reading that email? So I think the big thing there is move away from the mindset of I want people to simply engage in some way, shape, or form. I should say interact. I want them to engage more so than I want them to interact. So it can be a follow-up to the next email or getting them to go to a link on your website. Get them to do something that's gonna take them to a pool of information where they're able to show more engagement or buying behavior. I think the content itself, what to include in that, yeah, by all means, please include the recording. But if you're able to actually measure and monitor, did they watch that recording? That to me shows me, or did they forward that on? That's also another big thing. If you can track where the people are sending that information on to other people, that really, really helps you kind of understand where they're at in their buying journey. Okay, another good thing I love is a good acronym. So if you can go through this, because at first glance it does look really confusing and sometimes it's a little bit daunting, especially for us who are behind the scenes, running all these events, trying to nurture people and sometimes it's even hard enough just to send out an invitation to a webinar half the time. So how does this all work and how can we implement it today? Yeah, terrific. So I think the days of simply having a sales funnel that looked like this, you've got the top of the funnel, you've got the middle of the funnel, which would be a marketing qualified lead or a sales qualified lead and then a closed customer. Job done. We've kind of moved away from that mindset because we now, we want to grow the lifetime value of our existing customers and we really want to create that brand advocacy. So what we look at here is the funnel itself. If people are at the top of the funnel, how can we generate awareness? This is that marketplace awareness. How do we be seen as thought leaders in our events and our marketing campaigns and our website? Is that really showing that we are, you know, we've really got our finger on the pulse in terms of how we engage with our audience. Once people are showing behaviors, how do we acknowledge where they are in that journey? So we look here, you've got awareness. They're now a friend because they're doing multiple kind of touch points. Then they've identified themselves. So they might have downloaded a white paper with a form on that. They might have clicked on an email that we've sent them. They might have come to an event and actually said to you, hey, my name is Mike, give me a call or maybe no one even give me a call, here's my card. That's simply just a known lead. So this is the middle of the funnel. But then it's when we start, this is where the shift from traditional marketing is moving is how do we know when someone is engaged? How do we identify when they've reached such an engagement point that they become a target? So this is that name, target, and then they ultimately become a marketing qualified lead. At this point, no salesperson or outbound insight team has contacted that person. But this is really where we understand, okay, cool. These guys we need to nurture, we need to treat as individuals and we need to adjust our approach based on the fact they're now a target. Then they become a marketing qualified lead and this is where people are at that kind of 80%. 80% of that buying journey, how do we move them from an engaged lead to being really, hey, we want you to ultimately buy and convert. Sort of like you get stuck, right? And it's like, not only how do we do it, but then who's going to do it? Is that a question that regularly comes up? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, you know, funnily enough, who's going to do that? It's really who's going to manage the CRM? I think this is the big instance there. It's who's going to create the flow of as soon as someone becomes a marketing qualified lead and in our case that's quite often, if someone reaches a lead score and if you want more information on lead scoring, we can talk about that a little bit later, but how do we create points or attributes towards a buying behavior based on what someone is doing? If they're engaging with our brand more and more and more, how do we identify those amongst the rest? And that's what lead scoring is. So, let's say for instance, someone has a lead score of 100, then we would identify them as a marketing qualified lead. So, as opposed to the days of, you know, the contact us and the inbound inquiry, how can we see, you know what, this person hasn't rung us, but they've done enough to elicit a call. And that's when the sales person then picks up the phone and says, hey, based on what you're doing, it seems like you're engaging with our content and you're really showing some positive behaviors. Is there value in us having a conversation? If that customer receives that well, that's what we would identify as a sales qualified lead. There's then the traditional qualification process and that's when they ultimately become a customer. So, that is the old funnel. What we then talk about is, well, how do we make sure that the flow of marketing and the flow of information that we send them, it changes. There's nothing worse than signing up with a new brand and then two days after you sign up with that new brand, it's, hey, why not sign up with us? You know, why don't we come and get 15% off to sign with us or join one of our events to learn what, you know, how great it is to be a XYZ customer and guys, you're not really, two departments aren't talking to themselves. So, just a question here from Kim and I think this might play into the way that a few people are thinking right now. So, how can we adapt this to small organizations that don't have big budgets and staff? A lot of not-for-profits may be volunteering organizations. So, some people don't necessarily have a product to sell. It's really about the intangible thing that they're selling there, whether it is a volunteer organization or something like that. And at the beginning, I know you just speak to, okay, well, what is your end goal? And a lead doesn't necessarily need to be a marketing lead that's come through. It could be any of your audience. So, how do you adapt that? The approach remains the same, regardless of whether you are a non-for-profit, whether you're looking for donors. If you're a hotel chain and you're looking for guests, if you're an education environment and you're looking for more students, the end result always remains the same. And when we talk about SMB businesses, two out of three of all of Forbes' hottest startups are using marketing engagement. And the reason they're doing that is because it helps you acquire new leads, hot leads, at scale, hot potential donors at scale, hot potential students at scale. It's really about making sure that every marketing activity that you do, you can now measure the efficacy of that campaign. If you run, you spend $20,000 on an email campaign, or that's a bit rich, you know, if you spend $20,000 on, say, a webcast, you really want to know, and you want to be able to report to the people above you, hey, guys, we invested this, and because of that, we're able to show our board or our donors that we actually saw a return of, you know, three-fold, five-fold, six-fold. That's the old poker machine analogy I use. If you're a small business and if you're a small pub and you can't afford to put a poker machine in that pub, that's really saying that I can't afford to put a machine in that's ultimately going to generate me more and more leads and more and more revenue. So, you know, I definitely think for an SMB business, we, Marketo, grew from SMB. We didn't start with enterprise. We kind of grew up to selling to enterprise, but it's really about making sure that every dollar I spend as a marketer, how can I see a return and how can I measure the efficacy of what I'm doing? Now, here's just an example of how this works. Yes. So, when we talk about justifying budgets and talking about, you know, your return on investment and how it all works. So, can you explain this? And I think it's just important to keep in mind that when we talk about leads, it could be donors. It could be members. It could be a whole range of things. So, let's just speak to this slide. Yeah, sure. So, really what we want to see is, ultimately, we start with the top of the funnel. How much money do we spend on our top of funnel campaigns? And then we start tracking, you know, our new targets. So, what is the improvement and the increase? And these numbers don't talk to anything specific. These are just examples. But ultimately, how many new targets, and that's those people that are known leads, they're identifying, and they're doing, I would say, multiple engagements as opposed to single-point engagements. And then, how do we move those from a new target to an MQL? And that's those lead scores of over 100. So, it's not just, we're not just tracking the top of the funnel, and then ultimately, how many sales did we get because of it? And you can't map the two. We ran one webinar, therefore we got six sales. Job done. It's really about how many people did we move and direct towards that outcome. How did we move them along the funnel? So, we're moving people from an MQL, marketing-qualified lead. From that, we saw an increase in new sales-qualified leads. And of that, we actually generated a high number of opportunities, and then our win rate was XYZ. So, this is how we help marketers manage up. You really wanna be able to turn and say to your revenue team or the CEO, sometimes the CIO, guys, we've run this campaign. The campaign cost us this. We've seen a return on investment of that. And here's the measurements of each funnel. So, if you're buying Cycle, or your donor Cycle is nine months, how on earth are you gonna run a webinar in January and then say, oh, we didn't get any inbound inquiries that shut all webinars off? It's really about nurturing your audience continuously over time, so that you can see their acquisition journey. Yeah, so with time, how long does it take? Depends on your product or services. If you're buying Cycle is typically three months, with engagement and the right kind of engagement, you're definitely gonna shorten that. Because if I'm able to see that I've had a chat with you today, and I say a chat with you today as in the physical sense, but if I have an email conversation with you, and then I see that you suddenly jump on our YouTube page, or you jump on our website, and you start downloading our pricing and things like that, traditionally, I wouldn't know that. Whereas now I'm actually able to see, I sent, we sent an email campaign out to Sarah. Sarah's then jumped on our YouTube page, she's watched a certain video. She's then consumed some more information and jumped on the pricing page. She's jumped up to a lead score of 100. You're outbound sales team, or your donor department, or whoever it is. If you're a B2C environment, it could even be a certain call to action that's gonna move you further along the funnel. But if we can see that, we're able to shorten that cycle, and we're gonna see a significantly higher increase in conversions. Yeah, definitely. Now, just before we get onto this scoring model, which is what we're just talking about there, what sort of advice do you have for people who are looking to engage in this? Because we've got the models there. We know that you can get the tracking behind it. We know that there are certain programs that can do that. But for people who are just using, they don't wanna go too far into it. They wanna keep it simple. They wanna keep it quite high level. They just wanna keep making it easy for themselves before they invest into this sort of thing. How can we actually advise people there on what to do? I think it's really focusing on the outcomes. And people get quite frustrated with this sometimes, especially marketers. CEOs seem to love it. Marketers don't particularly love it. But what is the outcome we really wanna achieve? What does success look like for us? If you don't know what you're working towards whenever you run an event, then how do you know whether you run a successful event? Yeah, and that's one thing that, if people wanna know how is it that you create a successful kind of measure for running an event, it's really about what is the end goal? What is the outcome? So, so many people come to us with features and we're using MailChimp or we're using Campaign Monitor or Vision Six at the moment. And we really wanna evolve and we want these features. And we're quite often saying to them, we're cool, so what is it you wanna achieve? Oh, that's not really my department. And that's just not the case. It's really understanding, well, we're trying to grow as a business 20% year on year. At the moment, we are hitting a stagnant in terms of inbound inquiries. We've been predominantly referral-led to date. Anyone that's running a business, if you tell anybody that you're a referral-led business, it's time to grow because that will eventually dry up. It's really thinking about every dollar that we spend, what is the goal that we're trying to achieve? Yeah, is it engagement? Is it leads? Is it revenue? And if it's not revenue at some point, then go back to the drawing board. That's one of the things I'm constantly saying to our customers is really think about how much do we wanna see as a return on investment from running these campaigns? And if we don't get there, that's not a failure. It's how do we pivot and go, okay, well, let's run perhaps another email marketing campaign to see what happens there. How is it people are consuming this information? If they're not interacting well in our emails, maybe we need to change some things on the website. Maybe we need to change the tone of content. It's based on what your audience does. You're able to now track that. Great. Now, speaking of this and behaviors and tracking, so here we've got some examples of some pages that people would go to and track in. So with these types of systems we were talking about there, is the ability to embed tracking codes on your website or your landing pages or your emails and then making sure that you're actually scoring people. So can we just go through how that all works? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when we talk about lead scoring, it's very much that it's scoring the behavior of what people do on your website. You know, I had a marketing manager once tell me that we get so many inbound inquiries from our events. It's absolutely tremendous. And then when we actually tracked what that inbound inquiry was, majority of people are going to the contact, sorry, the careers page of their website because it sounded like such a great company to work for. That's not a buying behavior. We wanna see if people interact with our content or our website or any content that we have, that's good, but isn't necessarily a buying behavior. So that's where you'll see here, you've got latent behaviors, which is engagement, which is very good, but the points that we would attribute to an engagement isn't as high as a buying intent. And that's where we look at, if someone clicks on an email, we're gonna give them a point. If they click on a number of emails in a week, we might actually give them say five points for every email after that. If they visit a website or read a blog, we'll give them another point. Are they interacting with early stage content? So that's that kind of we're thought leaders, it's top of funnel, it's more or less awareness. And then if they attend a webinar, yeah, absolutely. Especially we can even attribute if they ask a question, if they ask lots of questions in an email, we might give them a higher score. But at the same time, if someone is a 150 lead score in January, you don't wanna be following up with them in October saying, well, you know, you still have a lead score of 150, it seems like you're really engaging with our content. And we wanna make sure that we decay inactivity. If someone doesn't do something for a month, we're gonna give them a lesser score. So you're really making sure that you're following up and interacting with your leads kind of based on where they are in their buying journey. The buying intent is really, what is something that is very similar to a contact me form? So are they looking for a free trial if they're actually filling out a contact me form? We're gonna give them a higher score if they're on our pricing page. You know, that usually shows a good buying cycle. What we do at Marketo is if you go on our pricing page, say three times in a week, you shoot right in the top. We really wanna make sure that if people are kind of coming back going, we wanna identify those and that's that kind of 80% of the buying journey that we wanna look for. Late stage content, so that's where you might have stage one being educational, stage two being more information that's kind of relevant to, let's say, red-back conferencing. And then stage three is really this is how you use our product and this is how you buy it. We wanna identify those as well. So this is all sort of built in a profile then, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. So essentially it's about us getting to know people who are attending our events. Getting to understand why they join our events and then tying that into the end goal and how that all works. And if the end goal is to, well like you said, obviously you want it to be revenue generating or you wanna increase your membership, you might want to increase your donors, you might want to sell a certain product. At the end of the day, it's about tying their profile and how you can bring them to that end goal a lot quicker. Yeah, absolutely. And we wanna, if we've got the measures in place to see how people are interacting with our content, then we can change the way in which we send out our content or if we're finding that there's just simply not the highest level of engagement in content, we're not gonna keep sending the same, if I can say crap over and over and over again. There's nothing worse than, you know, I've sat on webinars and think, why are you still sending me the exact same follow-up, follow-up email time and time again. You know I've been on your website. We should know that I've been on your website multiple times this week. No one's called me. You know, I think the car industry and the finance industry have got kind of a lot to answer for and you can really tell the difference between those ones that understand the buying journey. If you really, really know what motivates me as a buyer, motivates me as a donor, what courses I'm really interested in as a student, then talk to me about that. Treat me based on what I do as opposed to, you know, the traditional approach of just we'll have a guess. Excellent. So sorry, we'll just go back there to that slide. Now we've got a question here from Nathan. So how does this all work within CRMs? We're an organization that's had a CRM for a few years now. How do these sort of systems tie in and how does it all work? Yeah, great question, Nathan. So the big difference between a CRM, think of a CRM as a place of records and a tool like Marketo as a system of insight. So really what the marketing engagement engine is going to do is enrich the data that goes into the CRM. You think about your sales guys and sorry, I've been a sales guy as you will know for years and it's my notes aren't the greatest. I don't necessarily put in every single or interactivity but if all this buying behavior and all the lead scoring is actually showing up in the CRM then suddenly that information that's showing in the CRM is rich and meaningful. If I can see that and what we do is we split out the activity with what we call interesting moments. And an interesting moment is that active behaviors. It's a buying behavior. So as a sales person, if I'm going through all my leads every day, first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to sort my leads by lead score. I'm going to see the propensity that people have to buy based on and this is a Marketo algorithm that we implement. And I'm going to have an insight as to all of my leads, where they are in their buying journey, what their most recent interesting moment is and all of that's going to be live. So in terms of how we interact with the CRM, it's really about creating a direct synergy between the information that's going into the CRM, it's rich, it's meaningful, it's live and it's showing those buying behaviors. So it's all integrated and all just one central to one central. And that's virtually any CRM. Okay, we're going to go through some questions now. So please type in your questions. We've got a few coming through at the moment. Also complete the survey, which is the tab next to the actual PowerPoint slide. But if you do need to leave us, please keep in mind that we will be sending a copy of the recording within 48 hours. You can email Mike directly for any questions that you have. We're going to go to the Q&A session now before we ask Mike for his final tips. So I'll just give you a few minutes to think of that. So when it comes to scoring, what is a good score for an organization? So this is from Dennis. Yeah, I think that really comes down to what your intentions are. What we often do is we'll run a workshop with a customer very, very early on and we'll start looking at those outcomes. And that's why any advice I can provide is just think about the outcomes of every campaign you want to run and does that also tie into our end goal? If we're trying to generate more leads, great. If we're trying to generate more revenue, fantastic. How is this all tying into that? So in terms of what each individual score does, you've got to think about what is a buying behavior on our website, on our emails, on our webinars. You know, we provide that kind of support with our customers. You know, you don't have to think about that as a marketer. Get the experts to come in and tell you with our experience, here's what we see as a buying behavior. And then at the same time, adjust that over time. You know, if someone's, if the same sort of buying behavior is showing and you're giving something a really high lead score for say three months, yet no one's bought, then you might change that as a lower lead score. So lead scoring itself is an art. There's, we have a thing called the definitive guide to lead scoring, which I'm more than happy to make available to people. You can just search that in Google. And that really shows you, well, how do we understand what motivates someone to buy and how does that correlate to our product or service? So lead scoring itself is an art. It's not an art form that you can't learn. It's really just understanding what is a buying behavior through our website. And it's going to be different for each organization, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. A donor isn't necessarily going to engage with a brand the same way a B to C organization would engage. And a B to B business is going to engage very differently. So what a buying behavior is, is definitely not a blanket rule. So now we have a question from Taylor. And like I said, if you do have any, please keep them coming through. So we run webinars regularly. How do you measure how long someone has been on for an event for? And is this important in your eyes? You know, this is a question I get asked so often. Is the time on an email, is the time on a webinar important? If we send out a YouTube clip, I really want to know how much of it they watched. To be honest, I think that is such a small component of the overall outcome. How long someone attends a webinar doesn't necessarily mean how engaged they are with your brand. You know, if I'm on your webinar for 10 minutes, sometimes I might go, you know what, I get it. I'm still happy. And it's lunchtime. So that doesn't necessarily mean I'm not interested. But that's that whole based on what I do. So let's say I'm on a webinar for 15 minutes and then I go and have lunch, but I jump back on your website. I start interacting with content or engaging with content. Then does that make me less likely to convert than someone that sat 45 minutes and I think I've seen from some of your attendees? You know, there are people that are just regular kind of, well, I've got a webinar now. I'm sorry, I'll have to leave this meeting and I'm going to sit there for 45 minutes, eat my lunch and consume information for the sake of consuming information. Some people are genuinely looking for education and that's okay. But we really want to make sure that we're still focusing on the outcome. So I suppose that back to your question there and does it matter how can we track and what does that mean if we can track the time they spend on a webinar? Doesn't really mean too much other than, you know, we might attribute a higher lead score to someone who makes it to the end of the webinar. Yeah. I think it's all about thinking differently now and being more sophisticated in the way that we're actually communicating with people and we're given this information and we're putting it out there but it's about our own goal as well. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so final thoughts and tips if you could say one thing to everyone online right now just in regards to nurturing, engaging, keeping people informed and keeping your brand front of mind throughout the webinar life cycle series that they might be holding, what would be your number one tip? Well, I think if we go back to what we've talked about today, it's really the goal of every revenue-generating department and think of yourselves if you're a marketing department as a revenue-generating department, you don't wanna have that perception of being a cost center anymore. How can we acquire more new customers? How can we grow the lifetime value of those existing customers and how do we create more brand advocates? And if we're able to do that by using what I call the ABCs of marketing and we as a business call the ABCs of marketing, how do we treat people as individuals based on what they're doing continuously over time directed towards some sort of outcome? You've really got to define those outcomes and it's got to be everywhere they are. So across channel, multi-channel, wherever people are engaging with your content. It's everywhere. Yeah, exactly. You want to make sure that, and you're able to monitor that and you're gonna change your approach as a marketer based on what your audience are doing. If you're simply sending out the newsletters between webinars and webcasts, if you're simply sending out the odd batch and blast email, what efficacy and what, sorry, what efficacy, how much efficacy is that showing you as a marketer? So think about the end goal. What is it we as marketers really want to do and then make sure that ties into every campaign? Don't just run campaigns for the sake of it. Great. Thank you so much, Mike. Lovely to hear from you. And once again, anyone would like more information on today's topic or anything else that we've spoken about, please feel free to email Mike directly. We've got his details in the follow-up email which will be targeted to everyone that we send out, along with the recording in 48 hours. So thank you once again for joining. We hope you enjoyed today's session and we'll see you at future Business Skills events. Bye for now. Bye.