 Thank you, Angie. So welcome everybody to this afternoon's meeting of the Jones Library building committee. We are meeting virtually as authorized by the state of Massachusetts. So, I'm going to ask each of you to signify your attendance. And so we make sure that everybody can be heard and can speak. Christine. Yeah. Thank you, Sharon here. Alex. Paul Backelman. Present. Anika Lopes. It's nice to see you, Anika George. Here. Nice to see you, George. Sean. Here. Nice to see you, Sean. And I'm Austin, Sarah. Okay, we are, we are all we are joined today by representatives of the owner's project management team. Thank you to Ken and to Will for for being here and I thought I saw there she is Josephine were were joined by Josephine from FAA. Thank you so much for being here. We have an interesting and important agenda. This afternoon. We have no minutes of our prior meetings that we have to approve today. We will lay that off to a future date. The next item on the agenda item three, Sean is the financial update. So two things. We do have one invoice to approve, which is that for our cost estimator that we, we just reviewed the cost estimates at the last meeting. So I'll bring that up in one second. Thank you. The other update is that at the last meeting we heard from FAA about the contract. So we have sent them contract amendment to to extend the previous contract so we can go ahead and get them paid. So that's in in their court now and just waiting for their review and approval. Great. And I will share my screen real quickly. Thank you. Thank you. You can see the invoice. So this has been reviewed and okayed by Colliers, which is this little red recommendation for payment down here. Wow. And we obviously they've performed the work because we also heard the outcome heard the results last time. Great. So you're looking for recommendation from the bill to committee that this invoice be paid. Is that correct, Sean? Correct. So moved. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Thanks so much. Okay. Any discussion of the invoice. All right, Sean, if you would take that down that's $8,000 I'm going to go and I ask you to signify your approval of paying of the invoice Sharon Sherry. Yes. Christine. Yes. Alex. Yes. Paul. Yes. Anika. Yes. Thank you, George. Yes. Sean. Yes. And Austin vote. Yes. Thank you, Sean. Okay. Anything else on the financial update? No, I think that's it. Great. Thank you. Thank you so much. Okay. So item four, it says project budget. I think what we want to do is we want to talk about recommendations for changes in the design that would reduce somewhat the cost and discuss how to move forward with the revision of the plan. We will also want to hear in a minute from Kent about the capital campaign as was requested at the last, at the last meeting. I want to make sure everybody on the building committee knows that. At yesterday's board of trustees meeting of the Jones library. The trustees voted five to one. For a motion that read as follows. It was moved that we enter into a new agreement with the town of Amherst pledging the value of the endowment to help fund or to backstop the funding of the Jones library building committee. The Jones library building project. So that means that what the trustees in essence did yesterday was to repledge the endowment. We had pledged up to $6 million, roughly of the endowment against fundraising receipts as they came in. And we've already the town has already gotten $500,000 with more in the offing. And what the trustees did yesterday was to say we want to enter into a conversation with the town to see whether we can come to an agreement where we will backstop the fundraising. With the value of the endowment, which is now at $8.6 million. And in a sense, not count as against that commitment, any funds that have already been raised. So this would be an additional commitment beyond what we had pledged before. So that's part of the, I guess, the financial picture. I wonder if now we could ask Kent to come into the room, Angie, if you can make that happen or Sharon, if you can make that happen to hear a report about the capital campaign. There you go. Kent, you're almost unmuted. Try again. And if Sharon could bring in Jenny also I think is on this. But why am I not wearing not seeing my video started video. Okay. There you go. Okay, Kent. Thank you very much. So the campaign organization was put it that way has known for some time that it needed to raise more than the amount of the original budget for it. But at the same time it wasn't really free to begin working on this until about February, because it was until that point, the right to appeal. The judge's decision that a two thirds majority was not needed. Didn't expire so everything we've been doing. We've been doing since February. And that has been working on about four or five different fronts. And there's a lot of detail that I'd like actually to let me just summarize quickly, we've been, we've been working on infrastructure that is you came out a campaign without a whole host of volunteers without support documents. Without a plan without then beginning to make applications for grants, etc. So Jenny has a very brief report that I think can fill you in a lot faster than I can. If you could recognize her. That would be good. So are you done with whatever you have to tell me obviously have to answer question but I think we're this, this is going to be a lot more into the weeds than I might do in 30 seconds so yes. I'm done with your presentation Jenny if you if you want to do whatever it is that Kent is asking you to do that would be wonderful. I'd be happy to and would actually if it's possible to share my screen Angela. I think I have that opportunity now let me get that. You should be good to go yep. Okay, excellent. I see that excellent. So what I want to do. And again, Kent is Kent knows the details. I wanted to give you an overview of where we are with the capital campaign infrastructure we put in place in the progress that we've made to date. I bring up this schedule that you're all very familiar with, particularly those of you from Collier's because the timeline that you've been working all under with regard to the capital project maps to the bottom of this is the capital campaign timeline and while capital campaigns have their own life cycle, those timing is tied to the overall project. So we are finishing the infrastructure space this summer, entering what is called the quiet campaign, where the goal is to raise at least half of the the money's before entering the public phase of the campaign. So ideally when you get to the point where construction starts there's a big public launch there's an event there's we're talking to some Amherst connected celebrities to be part of that. And because once there's a big hole in the ground in downtown once construction is happening people pay attention, people pay attention differently, and by having the money already raised at least half donors have the confidence that they're contributing to something that's tangible something that's really going to happen something that is happening as they go. The trick in an egg right now is that key components of our fundraising efforts can't start until we've reached certain milestones in the building project. So, we've heard the calls to show the fundraising so that we know we can proceed and you know we're in the position of the project to proceed, so that we can continue to fundraise. So I want to give you the detail with that background update you on the numbers and the progress so far, because it demonstrates our ability to meet the new challenge of the higher So, infrastructure wise, you know our team, we couldn't be better off than having Kent and Lee leading the way with their experience. I have been working part time with the project since March as the paid campaign manager, an employee of the friends. We have consultants involved we have an 18 member campaign committee, and the friends of the Jones has been working for the past half a decade to put the infrastructure in place as an organization, knowing that this capital campaign was coming. So, we have spent a lot of time on database on financial systems the friends are actually doing their first audit this year so that we are ready to have the capacity to be dealing with larger guests. And we've been working with Amherst based international design firm idea co to come up with the brand elements that you see here, the look and feel for the campaign the materials website so on and so forth to move forward. We also will actually let's go ahead with this. Here's where we are with our goals. Where we are on track for our original goal is $6.6 million. We are on track for that. In fact, we're well ahead of schedule. And I know this number has significantly gone up. And that right now it remains a moving target I will get to that but there's talking about the original goal here matters in terms of content. So, our original target was to reach our 50% point of this goal by May of this next year. As of this month as of August we have raised commitments of over $3 million, which represents 93% of that initial target so 93% of the half or 40% 7% of our initial goal and that's nine months ahead of schedule. And I believe Mr Ferber got another $50,000 contribution today that is not put in the showing on this on this chart. So, we recognize that this is not enough with this news numbers but it's making the point regarding our success because this is an indicator of our capacity, going forward. So, in detail, in terms of donor commitments to date you know about the CPA funds, the Mass Cultural Facilities Fund, Beverage Foundation, thanks to Senator Comerford and Representative Dom. We have $50,000 earmark in this state budget for FY23 and our community campaign has raised almost $1.8 million to date. Ending right now, Congressman McGovern has a $1.1 million earmark in the federal budget it has made it through the Appropriations Committee so there's no guarantee, but we should be hearing about that by October at the latest. And we are in process with the National Endowment for the Humanities for an infrastructure challenge grant where we're requesting a million dollars for that. We're initially in our fights and the initial $6.6 million so these are additional. And the other piece you all know about with the historic tax credits the original funding for that. We have projected with the cost estimate. If those costs go up then the historic tax credits may go up as well. So, there are plenty of ways to slice and dice this, but if you look at what's been committed to date, plus the historic tax credits and earmarks would get us just over our total original goal nine months ahead of schedule in terms of where we were we were hoping to meet our 50% milestone. So, just to be very clear the $3,085,000 is what's committed those others until they're there, definite they're not yet definite. And then looking ahead at opportunities, our original plan was to go to press on our materials two weeks ago, and to start working with donors earlier this month, targeting that $6.6 million number. We were acknowledging that we knew the price would go higher but best practice is you only change your number once and our intention was to change the number at the end of the bid process when we knew exactly what construction was going to cost. And yet the cost escalations were so significant that we've actually put our materials on hold. We've put our outreach outreach efforts on hold so that we can get the new number that we're working with. So when we're looking at an individual donors, our campaign is on hold to start this fall with our major guests and then launching our community campaign publicly either in May or September of next year with the original plan. We've identified about 15 to 25 area banks and businesses that are good targets to likely give but those are on hold until we have the naming opportunities in the building clarified. Mindy Don put us in the Massachusetts bond bill that did not pass on the legislature in July but there are efforts to revive that. And our delegates are prepared to pursue this. And then foundations as well as sustainability grants both public and private there are multiple opportunities that we're looking at going with their to wrap up momentum. So that there's broad public support for this campaign and the vision of what we're looking to build. We have been impressed by the state and federal backing that's out there that was not anticipated as being part of our fundraising, beyond that initial grant and with the new climate bill and with multiple grants out there available for climate and community building programs, there are opportunities that that we will pursue the things we need to remember and that I hope you all and I know you all know this, you know, for fundraising delays like this interrupt the momentum of our proposal and it erodes confidence from donors that the project is moving forward that makes it that much harder to do the fundraising. And of course, please always increase cost and the work that we're doing. So, I will stop. And happy to take questions or, or allow Kent to do so. Thank you Jenny thank you Kent thank you for the extraordinary work you've done. The building committee knows full well about some of what it is that you've talked about we don't need to be told about delays increasing costs. That's not a fundraising issue directly though as you point out it has implications for fundraising, but we're incredibly grateful for the work that you all have done and the success that you've already demonstrated. Are there any questions about the about the about the fundraising. Kent it is clear. Is it accurate to say that you think you can raise at least $6 million more of private funds. Yes. I have a thinking I can do it. Certainly isn't any kind of guarantee but I think it's plausible. And I think with the, you know, the right team and some time. Yeah. And can you say anything. Let me there's one other thing actually will possibly that Jimmy didn't mention which is arisen only in the last couple weeks which is that the select board and the state delegation from beer field or organizing a effort to persuade the legislators representing all of the libraries around the state which are at risk to recognize what's happening to all these projects that are at risk there's at least six. And we've been waiting for Sharon to come back to help us identify because I'm sure there's another six more that while they've accepted the demands there in the position we are they don't yet have a firm construction contract so they're at risk. And we think there's some good possibility there. Well that that's a project that will be carried forward I'm sure enthusiastically by the town manager and the town, but I want to come back to my six, $6 million so I just wonder whether you can say anything that would would give some make a little more concrete your hope that you can raise $6 million I mean you've done a lot of prospect cultivation you've done a lot of donor research. This this is not just a wish and a prayer is that correct. Yes. I mean I think what you're talking about the way I look at this is, what would it take to raise $14 million instead of 6.6. And you go at this with mathematics. And so what would it take to do that. And you know you can start with 1.6 well two and a half or something like two and a half those a question raised in historic tax credits, because the $8 million that the original was going to be spent on the old the original building is now at the 12 and presumably the 20% cap on his third tax credits goes up so that's two and a half million toward what would normally be a $3 million lead gift. Yeah. And if these two $1 million of earmarks or any challenge grants begin to fill out what is normally the most important part of a gift table which is the top end. So, we also, I mean, there's a lot of it. I don't want to disclose anything confidential. Of course not, but there are prospects out there we're talking to us who could be very generous. And they haven't been. And so it's, I mean, I don't know. I can share the gift table with you but it's, it's hard to know how to reassure you that this is possible. Yeah, well you've done a great job already in showing the enthusiasm and generosity of the community. Are there questions for about the fundraising that you want to ask now. Well, again, with great great gratitude to Kent and to Jenny. Thank you for the presentation. Thank you so much. Oh, I'm. Jenny, did you want to ask a question. I just wanted to clarify based on what you said before Austin I'm sorry I wasn't more clear on this my point was that fundraising costs go up as well in addition to the other costs that you will have not. I know you're all very well aware of that. Okay, thank you. Again, thanks for the work and thanks for the thanks for the presentation. Really great. Very helpful. You don't need us anymore. We need you we always need you but I'm not sure that you need to be present. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to hear what else is going to happen. Okay. Kent on the edge of his seat. So I think now would be appropriate to look again at the question of the possible cost savings in the in the building in the building plan and to discuss those and then to talk together about where we are and how we think we should be proceeding. So I don't know whether can you're going to lead us through that or Sharon are you going to lead us through. I think Ken will lead but can I have the spreadsheet. Is that okay. Yeah, okay. Please hold. Sounds good. Can you all see that. It's visible to me is everybody good with that big enough. Seems to be good okay. So what you see here before you right now is our is our standard. We call our value management table that we work through with the design team. And with both estimators you typically happens in the same room at the same time that the estimate reconciliation is going on. We understand that there's to be a potential for cost savings needed or just as a matter of course we want to make sure that we're identifying as many things as possible that could potentially save us. So we're going to go down the road so you'll see here. Again we're in the schematic design phase which is really the first phase of the design. And we've identified a series of items that are noted. Under the description, and then we have the trade costs with the total markup on the total with markup, and then the status so the status is rejected either outright by the design team. By the trustees or outright by other entities that have the ability to be able to say yay or nay on some of these items so as we work through this list you can see that there are several items that are possible that we've identified and that have made it this far that haven't been, have it been rejected yet. And so those, those items are noted to be the heirs craft in lieu of cast stone this is again on the exterior of the building. Heirs craft is a is a modular precast stone piece that's that would be used instead of cast stone. Heirs craft in lieu of metal panel on the exterior. And those are $30,000 and $110,000 savings accordingly. A 50% heirs craft versus metal panel. That was that was another $150,000. So you can see how these are starting to to add up a little bit up to the total so the elimination of the window sash replacement in the existing building that's $170,000 savings. Some of these items that were that were not that were rejected you can see standing scene roof in lieu of slate. Use skylight in lieu of sawtooth roof so those we thought were sacrosanct and so we wanted again to make sure that those were in the rejected column. Direct decorative metal railing in the interior of the building now in lieu of the glass railing is about $85,000 savings standard operable wall in lieu of nano wall so nano wall is a transparent glazed, the mountable partition that cuts basically splits a large room in half. You've seen those sliding partitions, nano wall is a glazed partition. So we would substitute that out for a standard operating panel, which would be kind of the upholstered have that have a good STC acoustic rating to them but definitely step down from the nano wall. Some of the larger items in in the interior. ACT which is acoustical ceiling tile in lieu of the compound wood ceiling appears to be about a $300,000 savings. ACT acoustical ceiling tile again in lieu of the plank ceiling is about $55,000. The elimination of HVAC and special collections was rejected that was about a $350,000 savings. And then these next to happen to be an either or so concrete sidewalk in lieu of stoning granite pavers, or brick pavers in lieu of stoning granite pavers are a possible 575,000 or 410,000 we took the larger the two the more aggressive of the two, based on where we're at right now with the budget. And then the last item that we had was the typical CMU which CMU is a concrete block concrete mason unit open trash enclosure in lieu of one with siding in a roof on the exterior of building. And that was about $32,000 savings. So all told we are showing about a net savings of 1.5 million. And this is really, again, the large items that are out there are are are no longer we are really scratching the bottom. They really try to get as much out of the project as we possibly can, without being able to reduce any program and this is, this is the result of that. Okay. So, can you just go down one second just to the bottom again, you have something called markup percentage 10% and I'm not sure what that figure isn't what it's referring to. So the standard markups that we put in place refer to the general conditions general requirements of the general contractor things that their profit and overhead. So those are included we're assuming about a 10% markup and those are included in those costs. Great. Thanks so much. Okay, so before going further and there is more to say, questions about this, this set of proposed changes to the building. Paul. Can you clarify the status who actually made the decisions at this point, like I assume these are ultimately a building committee decision. But in terms of rejected or possible where those decisions were made or is that. Yeah, just where those decisions were made. I'm going to be able to talk more to that than I could call what I'm assuming that like the CLT was a decision made by the sustainability committee that that's, you know, again those are some of the ECMs the skylight and in lieu of the sawtooth. That may have been a combination of the design subcommittee and design team based on the fact that it's a very striking design element of the building and may just interrupt. Paul, I think that's a very good question. I think nothing has been rejected. So, I think that the jurisdiction is in this in the building committee. I think that what is meant by rejected is these seem not to be the most desirable or the most plausible cuts but your question as I understand it. I share the energy behind the question which is if we, if the building committee were to say we want to, you know, substitute steel for the cross laminated timber. That's within our jurisdiction. But I think what was done with this is that changes that seem to be either not plausible in the sense of given what we had already committed to, or changes that would diminish in some sense that we took to be the most important design elements of the library there in the rejected column, but all of that can be can be changed. Is that did any of you question. Yeah, that's helpful. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that, you know, these are recommendations to the building committee is what I'm seeing this as. That's correct. Thank you. George. I just wanted to clarification on item six the eliminate window sash replacement. If we did do that, does that mean that the existing sashes would be renovated or would they be left assets. I believe George it would meet, they would be repaired. That would be that would be taken care of. Yeah, we wouldn't leave them as is. Again, just to be clear, can when you say you believe meaning there's money in the budget for the repair. So it's not, it's not a belief it's a plan. Right. We would plan to repulse. Okay, great. Terrific other questions. Yeah, Alex. Yeah, I just had a quick question. In the and I didn't notice this yesterday sorry in what's item number I guess three and four, where it says areas craft in lieu of cast stone which I assume is the centria option we looked at. And then areas craft in lieu of metal panel. Those are I, the metal panel something that we rejected. I don't think there's any metal panel that I'm aware of so I'm just I'm not entirely understanding what that goes to feed you have anything on that. Yeah, I can say that we have some metal panel that was residing on some areas of the building but there were small portions and I'm not sure if that's what that line item is therefore can we had a pop out on the north facade. And that was shown as metal and then we had some, you know, pop outs at the dormers, and also some of the rooftop elements like the elevator head house were metal panels. Great. Thank you for the clarification. Okay, other questions about this. Yeah, Anika. Thank you so would there be any known programmatic changes caused by the. The cuts. No so that was one of the things that there were no programmatic changes I don't believe from any of these cuts these are purely aesthetic changes as that's as it stands right now. And could you just in the spirit of the question that was asked earlier at the bottom triple, triple pain window glazing. It says, if I can read it alternate and window overhang alternate. So, can you explain what the category alternate means. Sure, so what will happen is the design team will design essentially two items one will be the standard double pain glazing, and then there will be an ad alternate for or a deduct alternate to go from triple pain to double pain, or go from double pain to triple pain. That'll be noted within the design documents and the contractors will bid that alternate separately. If we get favorable bids then we can accept that alternate and incorporate that into the into the, into the plans. So does that mean that there's a potential for another million dollars or more in savings. Can you eliminate both of those yes. That's what that's what it appears to be so Alex is vigorously shaking her head no so I want Alex to speak. Unless, unless Josephine tells me otherwise we have double pain windows and we don't have window overhangs but those were to energy conservation measures that were identified. It's possible add on further reduce our. Yes, and the sustainability committee recommended them as alternates. If we had additional money. Right. Good. Thank you. All right, that's very, very, very helpful so that no one is confused about this. Are there things that are shown on this chart as rejected that people would like to query or things that are shown as possible that people would like to query. Yeah, Christine. Can you just describe what happens on item eight when you change out the saw to through for skylight. Is that flat. And are they still expensive and what happens if you didn't. I'm just asking. Yeah, I'm going to punt that one to the architect. No play in those waters anymore. So the question here was basically if we had removed the saw to through that we would go with something more unitized. So it would be standard skylights but one issue with that is the MVLC really just like skylights and they constantly recommend not to use them. A little bit of a battle with that one, but the library footprint is very large. And so we would still need to look at how we can introduce light and some of the inner portions of the library footprint. So it's something that definitely would still need to be reviewed further down the road. But the idea behind that one was that they would be just unit basic units skylights that would be distributed. Yeah, I just want to throw it back to you Austin so is this something that we are the designs up like how do we go about figuring that out and obviously as the architect if we were work and skylights went away like because they had to whatever would you open up bigger windows like does this become a whole new process and how, how do, are we going to decide and then it goes and gets redesigned like what happens. So, it depends on what happens in the rest of this meeting. So, my hope is that what will happen in the rest of this meeting is that we, the building committee will reaffirm our commitment to see that this project moves expeditiously into the next, the next phase. And we Hamilton pointed out a few of the cost of delay to them, and we're going to talk about the cost of delay to us. If it if we move into the next phase as I hope we will. Then it would seem to me that it would be appropriate for the design subcommittee to take a very close look at each one of these changes. It would be very helpful at this point to know where the whole committee is pending, you know, a very close look, there are things that people think that we are considering cutting that shouldn't be it would be important for the design committee to have heard that, and the reverse if there are things that are in the reject column that we think we should consider. So I think Christine the answer is it depends on where we are at the end of this meeting. George is your hand up. It is. I don't number 14 the concrete sidewalk in lieu of stone and granite. That's listed as a possible. In my opinion from a maintenance perspective, it just seems like a no brainer because we have concrete now. And stone granite and brick are so much more difficult to maintain, particularly in the winter months, and given that we have so much traffic around the building. I just see that going with concrete as though, although it's not as beautiful just makes more sense to me. Thank you. Thank you George, zander. Yeah. And the question really, I think speaks a lot to where I'm at right now, which is to be quite frank, this spreadsheet is disparaging to me not because anyone is not done incredible work like there's an incredible amount of work really inspiring and tough decisions that have gone into this. We're all facing a really harsh reality as a town which is like, we've got a number of projects around town and it would be a shame if in a decade we looked around and said, and there is our 2022 skyline of compromises. The type of decisions we're making right now are not the type of thing that we can come back to in a year of plenty and fix. These are things that we're going to ingrain into the building itself and are going to be long lasting. For me, when I look at this, I guess like the question is, what, given that we can maintain the goal of our programming here, what is the programming that we are gaining through making this project move forwards expeditiously versus what are the things that we're ingraining into our skyline in order to maintain the programming we are already able to provide. And so I, you know, if somebody thinks a lot about going to the community. It is really helpful to me to think about this in terms of going forward with this project. What is the programming that we will be able to increase or provide that already we have a need for. And therefore justifies making the sacrifices that that we're not going to come back to you because the skylight is not going to be something that or this odd to you through which is not something I entirely understand is not something we're going to come back to in five years and say, oh, we now have the money for standard. I'm not exactly. Could you say more exactly about what so the, the renovation and addition and you stop me if this is not responsive to your question, the renovation addition to the building, among other things would enable the following things. We have a children's room on three different levels of the library. It could be on one level. We don't have a teen space. We could have a teen space. We don't have great reading rooms in the library. We could have great reading rooms. We don't have the technology that we need. We would have better technology. We had no plan for the Civil War tablets we had a hope. So we'd be able to display these, these treasures of the town. We would not otherwise be able to do that. We want to preserve the historical value and historical features of the library we would do that. We want to make the library environmentally sustainable in a way the building is not now environmentally sustainable. The library, the board of trustees undertook a very careful examination of the needs, the space needs, the program needs of of the library and came up with a building program that was designed to do the things that I've just suggested you all know that maybe other than the public schools. The library is the most democratic space in the town. It's the space of the old and the young and well often the disadvantaged and English language learners and native speakers of English. It's their space. And by the way, just what I just mentioned, we will deal with the problem of the special collections which is run out of space. We can't, we can't take any more things into special collections. We'll provide adequate space for the English as a second language program in the library. So I don't know what, is that what you were asking about the program and what the, what, what the program would realize in the project standard. Yeah, I think that's, honestly, I couldn't have watched someone hit it out of the park off the tee that I was hoping to set up better than that Austin so thank you for that. Because I think these discussions can be disparaging in terms of watching, watching a feature we had dreamed of not be affordable right now. I think it is an opportunity to also reconnect ourselves to the values of our teams will have a space for the first time. Yeah, right. And the reason why I was willing to join this committee and and beers because like I really do believe this is a conversation about centering our community. And so if we have to sacrifice an element in order to do that. I think we are teams that should be willing to do whatever is necessary, even as long as it adheres to our central values and so I don't want to lose those and thank you for reconnecting us to this. Well thank you thank you thank you thank you for the thank you for the question, Paul. Thank you. So as I look at this, I, I don't consider any rejected until we decide that I also look at every item that we do reject as being that much more need we much more money that we have to raise. Because we look at these things and we say, we're rejecting that it means okay now we have to raise that $250,000 or whatever it is that we're looking at. So I just think we have to be super cognizant about the true costs of what these things are, and we have to start really differentiating between our wants and our needs. So, I think these standards of plant these are really hard questions and challenges for us because we have our aspirations and then we have the sort of blunt reality of our financial situation. I think our mission, my mission until until it changes is to continue building this plus the other three buildings in the town. So, but I think we have to keep all the tools on the table. Well, do you have thoughts, but now and of course you don't, you needn't but do you have thoughts now about some of the things that are in the rejected column that you think we ought to take a close look at and see whether or not we we would might imagine recommending that they be changed. I mean, I think my first cut would be like what is, you know, what's our environmental responsibility in terms of sustainability. You know, MB, MBLC says we don't like skylights is and that's I think we've talked about that a little bit. That's a big number. You know, is there a cheaper is there another way to get light, you know, natural light into the building which is really important. I haven't looked at these close enough. I think a lot of the things that the stuff, you know, on the ground, the concrete, that's always something we can go back and do differently. But those are big number items. Yeah, well, we'll have a chance we'll all have a chance to weigh in more but I do want to just say that while I, I fully agree that the final say on these. Any of these changes is going to be where the building committee is going to. That's our charge. All of these things were looked at very carefully with the idea that we didn't want to come back to the committee and say let's take the cross laminated timber out of the building. Because we thought it would be very costly to the sustainability of the building. So every one of these things. Not that they not that they can't be changed. It was thought of in terms of what we want the building to be. And what we thought was most essential to preserve. And you're right, we're aware of and we haven't, we haven't completed the conversation today about what the cost implications might might be. And hopefully at the end of this meeting, we will commit to continuing the design work. And then we can weigh in on these particular changes. Also, then I would say on the rejected ones, I would want to know which committee was it the trustees or the our sustainability committee or design committee that said we reject this. I don't recommend rejection of it, which I respect. I think you're right, Austin. I'm, I'm not looking to re litigate each one of these things. I just need to understand it before I can take a vote on this personally. Okay. I got Sean, and then Zander your hand still up or you, you want to come back in. Okay, not not here. Sean, your next. So this is a question maybe for Josephine or Sharon may know this. Do any of these reductions affect our ability to get historic tax credits. I know that's a concern that we've discussed briefly in the past and so I don't know if some of these that were put into the rejected column or because of that. Yes, Sharon, I don't know if you want to jump in on any of that but my hand was actually raised just to point out that there are a couple of line items here that were probably posted as rejected before presented to you because we colliers and FA did go through these, of course, in detail and one of those, Sean, that you had just mentioned the line item number seven standing seem metal roof and the slate I do believe that was pointing to the existing building and so we wouldn't recommend going in that direction because we don't think that that would get approval. So we just assume that that's just under rejected before we even presented that to you. Great Josephine your hand was up to do you have anything else that you wanted to say at this point. I was actually just going to comment on this and there might be a couple of other items as well that we could review afterwards if you'd like on the rejected list that probably wouldn't be an option at this moment to go back to if you folks will be reviewing this in more detail. Could you just answer one question for me and that's about item number 15 brick pavers instead of stone and concrete. Oh that's the alternative. Okay, I gotta forgive me that can can point that out. Okay. Christine. Yeah, if that would be great Josephine to get some clarification on the rejected ones. So at the same time I just want no one's talked about the value engineering items not pursued at the bottom. If it's would be helpful maybe we should just hear why those were also rejected. And I noticed there's no dollar amounts tied to those. Thanks. Ken. So I think some of these were deemed to to detrimental to the project, specifically the elimination of the gambrel roof. Right that's a that's a design feature of the building, the profile the addition the vertical walls and all those things that were really impactful to the overall look and feel of the building which I think would may have may have issues beyond the committee with possibly the MVLC or others that have been looking at this project with this began this gambrel roof reduction of the interior for finishes to expose the CLT. That was you didn't look at we didn't look at that further I think because it would require additional costs to the mechanical systems to get them to be presentable if they were going to be in full view with the with the CLT so it was actually going to potentially be a net add rather than a rather than a cost savings drywall with a wood cap guardrails around the floor openings in lieu of decorative metal. That one I can't speak to I wasn't involved in that conversation I don't know if Josephina will was involved but in similar with the reduction of the size of patios. Neither of those I was involved in those conversations so I'm not sure why those were pursued further. Josephine. I could probably speak to the third one but the last one I'm not sure where we landed with looking at more lawn. As opposed I think Craig did actually pull a number for that and I don't know where it ended so maybe will can chime in on that one. And just the discussion to go back to number three, the drywall with the wood cap guardrails. I think that it wasn't a huge savings and it sort of takes us to a direction design wise that doesn't really go with what you know what we're initially thinking and the rest of the design of the building so it's really detracting from from our overall approach so we didn't think that was an option. Great. Okay, thank you. So I have to actually so one is I'm curious about the skylights and what is the issue that the MOVC has or why are they not recommended and also would any of the reductions related to sustainability affect any grants. Great, thanks. Skylights more detail on why MBLC doesn't like skylights. I'll jump in and can you can add to it if you like from what my understanding is that they've seen a lot of problems on other libraries with leaky and issues down the road so it lasts for so many years and then they start to have issues with with leakage so they, I don't know if there's more reasons, you know, further than that. But, but that was the main thing that Andrea bunker had explained to us in our last call. And as to sustainability and grant possibilities Sharon do you have anything you want to add at that point. Yeah, so it kind of goes with Paul's question about the the CLT and and the saw to through it. It was discussed by the sustainability committee and they were very adamant about about maintaining these pieces of the project for the purposes of having a green building. So I don't. So I don't think that anything else that we are proposing here in the possible column would put sustainability grants at risk. It's also the case. I think I believe though again Kent would be the one to that. We went to the voters with a particular vision of what this library would be. Among that vision had to do with sustainability. There are two things one is kind of keeping faith with what we presented at the time of the referendum 65% more of the voters endorsed what we presented and so I think what we are trying to do is as much as possible keep faith with that vision. I can't speak can't might be able to speak to if we would remove this is some of these sustainability features it might have an impact on the capacity of the capital campaign committee to raise funds, people might be just less disposed to want to put their philanthropic contributions to a library that was less sustainable. Does that answer your question and Eka. Thank you. All right, Xander your your hand is up. Yeah, thank you and I'm going to try and do a better job of putting it down. The. I'm just curious, given that we're all sort of stuck in the same place right. I'm really curious. We're an opportunity to go back to the community and talk about increasing community participation. So what specifically one option of that could look like is, hey, we are still really committed to these values. We have to make these cuts, unless there are people who can become more involved right and I think fundraising is one opportunity that we keep coming back to you, but also are there are other opportunities for example, the fact that we have built such great partnerships and people who are willing to take the garden as being moved right to go back to them and say hey, the rain garden is something that we don't want to cut. Is there a community partner who's willing to take on that cost to volunteer from sort of services. Great. I think that's a great idea and one that we will certainly want to explore in all of its facets. I think that's a great idea that maybe things that we can, we can get people involved in helping us do Alex. Yeah, I didn't catch all of Josephine's answer so I apologize if I'm asking a question that you already answered. So on the items not pursued. There isn't necessarily anything that bothers me in there that I would reject outright I mean the gambrel roof was one of the designs that we looked at but at the end of the day, it has to be signed off by mass historic. I don't know whether, like I'm just looking at those, those, you know, reducing the size of patios provide like none of those feel like they're taking away the programming for me and I, I guess I don't super super worry about the design because again at the end of the day, it's gotta, it's gotta be approved by the mass historic so I personally would be interested in knowing if there's some larger numbers in there and what that might look like. I might be alone in that but Josephine did you want to say anything at that point. No, I think probably when we revisit this and sort of go through the line items and you know the rejected versus the alternates and possibilities. We could also further inform everyone on what these costs are and what that would mean and what it would impact if that makes sense. Sure. Great, thank you. Thank you, Josephine. So, but Josephine, I was going to ask a question, are we going to do that in this mean go through each thing. Is that what she's saying or another time. So, I'm just going to make the suggestion here again. I think what I hope will come out of this meeting is we're going to continue the design work. That if that's what this committee decides that the next step would be for the design subcommittee to convene and to look very carefully at these items. And at that point, we'll get more information. People have a chance to think about it and chew on it. Christine, is that answering the question? I think so. So, we're still asking questions about this or we sort of like that and we're going to move to what you're talking about like deciding if we're even going to dive deeper. If you have questions about anything here, it would be good to raise them because that will allow FAA and the OPM to think about them. Then I do have one one just quick additional one on. So we see a savings a few like the sawtooth roof, which is great and the issues with skylights I can see that that's it would be a big savings. Could we also have the number just to dump you know at the next meeting whatever is what would be the savings if you if you got rid of the sawtooth roof and you didn't do skylights and you just do a regular somehow roof and and considering adding more window whatever are those elements to bring in more light. I think that would be a number that would be helpful. Just one saying whether it's the hard choice we make or is it I don't know the community, it really wants us to put the money into that. So, Josephine, is that a number that can be like estimated or the bigger problem that we would see with that is just that because it's a large footprint of the building. We only have so many exterior walls where we can bring the light in. So we have some central areas that, you know, might be of concern where it might be a little bit on the darker side of what we were anticipating so we would have to probably study that but that's something that we would have to consider and look at a little bit further if you're saying to eliminate the sawtooth roof and the skylights all together. I think I understood you correctly because right is there a third option in there or is it only go to skylights but as you said we know the MVLC and hello with the Jones don't we have problems with skylights leaking but anyways, you know, is it just so you know what does it mean what are the choices and what are the dollar. Yeah, and I think we had floated this at some point in one of the meetings that we had together a few weeks back but it could be that we end up doing instead of many sawtooth roofs we eliminated and and do one or two where it would bring in a lot of light but again that's we would have to, you know, study or look at it a little bit closer but we can definitely touch base with collars, you know, after this and start thinking about some of those. I thought that the conversation about the sawtooth roof also had to do with the possibility of kind of passive solar in the building is that right. Yeah, so there's a couple of things that it's doing. One of them is that it was providing a face for solar panels in the future. And then the other of course is bringing all the daylight in. Yeah, and that's part of why I think we said not to eliminate the sort of sawtooth roof line, but again we'll we'll revisit that. I ask a question Austin, I'm sorry, I don't know how to raise my hand. And I think that's because I'm scaring my screen, but thank you. So this may be a really dumb question but my question is the items that we're putting in. Let's say we say we're going to reject all of this. Can they go in the alternate? Does that cost us more when we go out to bed? Ken? So I don't know if it necessarily costs us more. It definitely costs us in design time because now we're asking the design team to design two different options, one the alternate and one the base option. And then there may be, if you have too many alternates in a project, it sometimes is, contractors get a little bit leery about that because they think you're just looking for an a la carte menu. That's pretty much what I'm looking for, yes. Okay, but I understand now. Thank you very much. Okay, any other questions about this because I want to ask Sharon to go on a little bit and help us to understand a little bit about the cost of delay and other kinds of questions but before we go there, Alex? Yes, I would just ask the design subcommittee when you're doing your review to now that I understand that question about alternates is, you know, we're going to achieve the EUI goal that we have with the current design and the triple pane windows that overhangs our extra. So, is that where we want our alternate to be focused and should it be focused elsewhere and I just put that out the design consideration. Great. Very good. Very good. Yeah, thank you. Okay, Sharon. By the way, before you do this, Ken, could you just say out loud. Well, I'll come back to you after Sharon finishes her thing because what I want to do is to just make sure that everybody understands what we're talking about in terms of the total cost of the project. If we make the kind of changes that we're talking about, what would the total cost of the project be? Sharon, go ahead. I'm muted. I'm sorry. I'm going to hand this over to Ken and he's going to walk us through this next document. Great, thank you. Great, thank you. So we put together this couple of spreadsheets here to kind of outline some of the cost analysis that was done and some of the questions that came up. So I'll just go through this very, very quickly and then answer any questions you may have. So one of the questions that came up was there was a repair report that was done a year or so ago by Coon Riddle. The cost associated with those repairs to the building and so trying to compare apples to apples. What would that cost be if we're escalating that work up to start essentially today if we're going to go forward with that project today. So looking at the cost estimate and the options essentially escalating it to the present option one would go from 16.8 million up to 19.5 and option number two would go from 14.4 up to 16.2 million. And that's using again similar cost escalation that we've been seeing over the last year. We've been projecting out based on some of the conversations we've been having with the estimators and just seeing how the market is moving along. So a significant change in the costs there. Another question that was asked is what is it going to what would it potentially cost us an escalation if we were to pause the project for a couple of months. And that right now the range in the total project budget ranges from 46.8 million to 53.3 million depending again on where the escalation falls within that timeframe. We're currently looking at an escalation of about 1% per month. And so the cost of escalation for those two months would would vary between 726,000 to 1,066,000. And the cost of note the cost to date for some of the soft costs essentially just the OPM and the design team ends up being about $401,000. The cost to bring the project through bid and to get through the bid process and get solicit bids from contractors which would essentially take us from today to bid date is approximately 1.385 million dollars. And again just showing you what the what the capital they would be between now and bid but at that point in time we would have concrete bids and no cost certainty at that point. Next slide please. So some of the other things that we want to make note of so some of the effects of the delay, obviously we had kind of spaced out the cash flow and the schedule to align as closely as possible. So we had the NBLC grant disbursement to make sure that we were trying to minimize the outlay of the town and try to utilize the NBLC's grant funding as in the best way forward. By delaying it pushes the NBLC disbursement number five from July 2025 to July 2026. So that's, that's that's pretty significant and something that should be should be thought through. The cost reductions which we've talked about, and we put them under plausible and not possible or rejected because I think that's probably a better, better way of describing it. We've talked about those already in big, big numbers the exterior finishes 460 interior 490 landscape about 607, which brings us to that 1.5 million dollar sub sub total for that escalation. Again, with the way the market is moving and moving quickly. We've been having conversations with the estimators and not just our estimators but other estimators and the market analysis that's happened over the last month. Since the estimates have been, have been done. We think that there will be a market correction between now and the, the date of bid. And so, there are some assumptions and some thoughts about assuming that there could be an escalation reduction of about $750,000. And this is something that's plausible. That that could definitely happen based on hearing on the market corrections. And then the FF and so the furniture fixtures and equipment, the budget is currently 2.5 million. That includes not only your furniture, but your books order and all of the stacks for the library. After talking it over with the library and the design team we think we could probably reduce that number by a million dollars. That would mean we would forego the book order and some other things. But all told that could get us a potential total cost reductions about 3.3 million dollars. And then over to the right hand side again is the non plausible cost reductions that we talked about previously. And so that's kind of the big picture cost analysis of how things are shaping up right now. Can just again so everybody will have the figures in their head if if we reduce the cost of the project by 3.3 million dollars. The estimated total cost of the project would be what. If the deduction of 3.3 million we would be looking at between 43 and 49 nine are just under $50 million for total project costs. Right. And the total project cost right now is the budget total is is 36 points essentially 36.3. So roughly on escalation at the low end of about $7 million in cost. And at the high end of about 13 or so million dollars in cost. Is that correct? That's correct. Okay. Is there anything else on these slides or are we where we should be. Sharon. That's it for those slides. Yeah. Okay. All right, any questions about the cost reduction conversation. That we've just had, I will say that in the trustee in the meeting of the Jones library board of trustees. The idea of pledging the endowment. Against the backstopping of the fundraising. We thought it would provide assurance to the town on the low end of the, of the cost of projections. We don't know where we're going to end up, but that was what our, what our target was. We don't have the value of the endowment would not have covered the cost difference between the current budgeted and the high end. So that's part of why it's important to keep those figures in mind. Any other questions about the cost figures that we've now just seen. Christine may I just say one other quick thing I'm sorry I should have said this. And of course, right now the library is pledged up to about $6 million of its endowment. That that's already an agreement with the town. So the, the cost of moving forward. More than $1 million to bid to bid documents and can it would be really important for you to just say a word about your experience in what happens at the bidding phase but the cost of going forward. To the bidding phase is again hopefully he's going to be covered by fundraising and is backstop by the existing pledge of the, the libraries endowment the agreement that we'd already had with the town. Yeah, I guess my question is for Paul, and I was just wondering if he could speak to what these conversations are looking like with the other major town projects right now. Are we unique are we in line with what's going on. It's not unique it's throughout the construction industry we're seeing it in the school building project as well. And, you know, and I, you know, we're not that far along with the DPW or the fire to, but it's just prevalent throughout the construction industry. So, I don't think this is a surprise to anyone. It's, it's a shame that we weren't able to move forward with this a year ago when we could have and that's that costs us millions of dollars because of that. But it's where we are today so we're looking forward on how do we move forward at this point in time. But I think it's pretty every every community and with any building project is looking at this for every one of their building projects. Yeah, and as was mentioned earlier, I think by Kent or Ginny. That's part of why this letter from dear, the dear field, the people to the governor was so significant because it's put at least at the state level, a clear marker that this problem is not unique to Amherst it's not a question of did we manage the project well or did we hire the right OPM. This same project the same problem is not only right Paul townwide but region wide and it's affected every library project that the MVLC is hoping to hoping to support. Okay, other questions or thoughts about cost. Christine, yeah. So I hear 43 to 50 million. And as a building committee and when we're trying to decide what to cut or what to fundraise or how to fund this, what number. I think we can who helps us like, are we going to pick a number in the middle or, and my other part was I remember looking a few weeks ago the contingency percentages were a little on the low side. Since we don't have those numbers look at, are we still being very conservative and kind of low on that. One of the things I'll answer the last part of that question first so we did increase the businesses slightly and escalated those up a little bit. But if you recall back when we put this before the council, we did reduce several line items in that budget in order to get us down to 36.3 million. And one of the things I will say is, and I mentioned this yesterday, trustee's meeting, historically, estimators estimate to kind of the middle range of the costs. And so what you're seeing is kind of the low mid and the low mid and high range between the 40, let's say the 46 and the 53 or the 43 and the 50. You know, our assumption is that we're going to we're going to be driving towards that, that 43 number that's that's a number that, you know, we want to try to do whatever we can to get this down there but without, you know, a design still needs more time to cook. This is only schematic design level we're making assumptions on their nature. We will know more again as the design progresses. Can you kind of be lost you there. So you want to just repeat the end of what you said. Those numbers are going without without without that. You know, we don't want to give you a specific number, the range is probably all we can do at this point. Okay, Christine did I need to question. It was kind of hard to hear him but so we're just sticking with a range for now so I mean it's a pretty big range so how are we supposed to ensure that we're on target. Can. So I think at this point we've got it, we've got to establish what we want to drive this down towards. If the estimators and the markets telling us it's, it's, it's this large range because they just don't know how escalation is going to fare. Hopefully by the time we get to the next level of the design, the, the will have a better handle of what the markets are doing and hopefully have a better handle on escalation how it's going to impact the project. So for, for my, for my team's intensive purposes we are, we are focusing on the lower end of that number. And that's what we're going to be driving, driving the project towards that's, that's the intent is to do whatever we can to get us to that lower number. Christine follow up so you said drive drive to the 43. How do we do that as a building committee. So we've got to make sure that the team as we're going through the design development process again that the project has a lot more to happen, and a lot more designed to have between schematic design level and through design development. We're going to be working with FAA to make sure as we're, as we're looking at those documents and talking through those details and talking through what's happening in this next phase of design that the assumptions that they're making aligned with what we discussed that in the schematic design or are further driving down the costs of the project to us to get us down to where we need to be with that number. Thank you. I think that I think the thing that we need to face is, we've got to go further into this project to get a real answer to your question. And we may not get a the final answer until we're at construction bids. That's why I think it's important for this committee to endorse the idea that we move forward with design development. Understanding that there's some risk that the cost will, you know, go in the wrong direction. So what we've seen is that there's already been a reduction in the estimated cost. That's why I think it's important for us to go forward realizing that you might spend the additional funds. And at construction bid, the town looks at its finances and we look at our finances and we said we can't, we can't make the numbers match. If we don't do that, if we were to pause, if we were to say no, let's slow down. What we've just seen is that the costs are going to go up. It'd be very costly for us to say, no, let's put this on pause. It would be costing again I thought Jenny did a great job in this it would be really costly in terms of fundraising. We already have a problem and the problem is that the fundraisers for this project and it's no one's fault. Have been, you know, it's been a up and down process project is going forward the project is not going forward. What Alex and Xander and Anika have demonstrated to the outreach, which I thought was just remarkable is how much energy there is in the community for this project to move forward. And those who were not so enthusiastic about the project come forward with these wonderful ideas. We've improved the project project has gotten better by virtue of the community outreach. So, I think you've asked exactly the right question, Christine, but as I understand it that the final answer that question. It's not going to come until the construction bids are are in and what Ken said is we'll get closer to knowing it when we go through design development. But I think that that for all the reasons that Xander asked me to say the need for the renovation edition is as great or greater than it has ever been. To that point to what we've already done. We've improved the project by virtue of the community's input and engagement. So I don't know that we're going to be able to know the answer when that's what the trustees did right with trustee said we can pledge your endowment, and that will cover kind of dollar for dollar, and actually more than what the estimate is. And we were able to do that in part because we saw that the cost escalation has already been cut right by $750,000 again that's an estimate. So I think that's where we, I think that's where we are. And I think that's the, I think that's the question that we have to decide kind of right now. Do we say to the OPM and the architect, keep going. And then enable us, right, Christine to get the design committee to get design subcommittee together and look carefully and review all of those things. So, we all want to get this thing built, and it's about having enough money in the pocket to pay for it. And I know the trustees I watched the meeting yesterday and you guys are really trying to put it out there, you know, to back it as much financially as you possibly can. Paul, what's the thought with the town I know there's incredible pressure with other capital projects. But what happens, I assume we take this big mortgage bond, whatever, and the town, is it the town that will guarantee it. So that God forbid it ends up 48 million, like does the town carry that like, I don't know, I guess I'm just saying like you got to have a plan, regardless of what the number is, and are all the players that have the money. Right, Sean, I don't know. Good job. So, one scenario for how it could work is if we wanted to go to construction. I don't know exactly the wording of what was voted last night so I think Paul and I still need to sit down and look at that and and think about what that means. The scenario would be to continue to construction bids so we can find out the exact number. And that would, that would kind of mitigate the range that we're looking at. If at that point. If at that point, you know, it's a big number then obviously we have to make a decision what we do if it's something that we have the funds for then we could proceed. So with what the trustees my understanding of what the trustees did last night would be if we get to that point and decide we're not moving forward. They would cover the cost that we're going to incur over the next three phases or two phases of the project. Because I think for Paul and I the decision is, can we put more taxpayer funds out there not knowing if we're going to get to a final project. Correct me if I'm wrong awesome my understanding of what was what happened last night was that the, the endowment will basically ensure that if we don't move forward, they would cover that cost. So that we're not putting any more taxpayer funds, potentially at risk there. So, so if I can just be clear because I think there's been I think there's a little confusion, which I just want to make sure that we're not confused about the trustees and the town signed an agreement. We've already pledged much more than the $1.3 million that would be required to cover the additional cost to the bidding phase that's done that's signed sealed and delivered that's there. What the trustees did last night was to say, we're willing to increase the pledge of the endowment and right, not to take the amount that's already been contributed. As a reduction from that pledge. But, but that pledge of the, of the more of the endowment. I don't think has a huge amount to do with between now and the bidding documents, the bid phase, that's already been in my view. But again, stand to be corrected. That's already been done. The town has got that agreement if there it is. Yeah, so I think the details. Again, that's why I say we have to look at the details so my understanding that pledges is, we have a successful project we move forward if the fundraising falls a little bit short. The endowment makes up that difference. This is slightly different where we get to the construction phase if we decide we're not going to move forward. So the fundraising is sort of ice, you know, most donations I assume are for a project to occur. So it wouldn't necessarily be for the fundraising default, if the fundraising fall short at that point it would be, how do we just cover the cost of the project to that point in time. So that's where I mean we have to step back and look at the existing agreement what it describes is really to that piece of it. And then if there's additional amounts were there any additional contractual language around what was just done last night. Yeah, I think probably that makes sense and I think that that you and Paul and myself and Sharon should sit down and look at the agreement that probably the town's lawyer should look at the agreement. And that will see what it what is what it what is there because we do want to make sure that we're all on the same page in understanding where that agreement is there was no vote taken last night other than the vote to pledge the value of the endowment, you heard that what what what the motion was right the motion was to enter into conversation with the town with the view of agreeing to pledge the value of the endowment against the completion of the project. Alright, so I think the, again, that wording. If it's completion of the project I think we would have to go back and revisit. And take a look at what that again what that would mean if we get to construction bids and depending on the outcome of that what happens. Yeah, well this is right so we want to get there together. And of also right with the town with what the town wants to with the town wants to do we're going to we're going to try to help get there but this is this is a question where the town wants to do whether or not the town thinks that that we should go forward the trustees think that we should go forward. I hope the building committee in a minute will recommend that we go forward, but we'll see Alex. And I don't know if this is I feel like this is a little bit outside of the purview of this committee, but I it was in the presentation so I just had a question. The repair estimate that was escalated is a slightly different number than we saw yesterday, but then also a comment was made that it was escalated to begin the project today. And the repair estimate is just that a repair estimate there's no actual design work so we so I guess I wanted to clarify that because you know as Christine is talking about where money comes from, you know, we do know that that entire 1618 20 million whatever that number is is coming from the town. And we don't have the same fundraising potential state grants sustainability grants etc available to us. So I guess I just wanted to take a second to understand what you meant when you said escalated for the project to begin today. Is that design work starting today. So would we have to be a fair, fair amount of design work done to at least document what the repairs need to be. Right, I think that's all the design work there's no design work that's been done it literally was taking an estimate we, we the library put together the things that were most critical and must be repaired George. So that he's the one to put the list together and then we requested an estimate for that repair, and then Cune riddle. Because we would be triggering once we work on the HVAC system essentially we're going to trigger accessibility requirements and that required a designer to help us get to that number because there was design work relative to the accessibility portion but to move forward with a repair. We are starting from scratch in terms of the design work relative to the repair. So, if we're looking at numbers that are escalated with a project to begin today, that's not realistic. Not to mention the fact that I'm guessing the town is likely not going to write us a check for $20 million for us to start to project tomorrow. I figured this project was going to start in 20 at some point in 2023. And that's what it was escalated out to with it. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Alex. Xander. Also slightly outside of the purview of this committee. I just wanted to say like is to be quite blunt. We're still is not a contract for our teachers in town. And the current proposal is woefully under the cost of inflation. And so it's not just us who is trying to figure out how to come up with money that isn't there. So I want to highlight the organizing opportunity or engagement opportunity that I think as we talk about this going into the future. There is a growing tension right now about the town spending money on all these capital projects while they're not maintaining the people in their buildings. I think my words not theirs. And so I just want to signal that there might be an opportunity for us to engage our educators many of whom are so deeply connected to our library as an opportunity to talk about as we go. If we go forward with this project. It means monetarily in terms of all of us figuring this out. Because I think there's a lot of great ideas and an opportunity for engagement there as well. Thanks. Okay. So I think that the agenda of this meeting is really now to decide what we say to the architects and the opm. I understand it what the architects are ready to do is to enter into design development. There might have to be some revision to the schematics Josephine is that right on the basis of the cuts that we are talking about. That is correct depends on how you want to proceed with those alternatives and when we would be starting with the design. Right but the hope is to make those changes and to go into design development is that right. So that's it. Yeah, Sean. So if I don't want to jump the gun but if if the thought is to go to a bow I just, I think it would be a recommendation to the town manager to tell FAA we would go to the next step so our contract with FAA, or our potential contract with FAA. The town manager is the determining body basically to move from one phase to the next. I think that's very helpful. I'm sure that town manager will be very interested in hearing from the members of the building committee if he considers what it is that he wants to do and he will be very interested in hearing from the 65% of the vote. Oh, I'm not. That's going beyond the, the moment. So let's see whether or not we can. We can frame a motion to make a recommendation to the town manager. So I think the motion would be that we recommend the building committee recommends that the work on the Jones library building project continue. And we would understand that it's continuing means that we would go forward to look with the design subcommittee to come forward with recommendations to this committee again to finalize changes that would have to occur in the schematics. And they would go forward with that work. And then, unless they were told differently, they would go forward with design development. So the motion would be that this committee recommends to the town manager that of the work on the Jones library building project be continued. Is there is there a second to that motion. Second. Okay, is there a discussion of the motion. And can you just clarify. If we discontinue the work on the Jones library. We are returning the money or we are suspending the work and pausing. I would assume that if we vote. No, we don't want to continue that the conversation would then have to occur. Where are we. Now, I think that Sean rightly pointed out that that we the town manager Sean myself, Sharon, the lawyers need to look at the agreement, because we're all in agreement that we want to provide whatever assurance is the town needs. But I think that if you vote no you're voting to pause the project. Christine. I just wanted to get so if we move forward. I just wanted to confirm the amount of money that is sort of like at risk or like would have to be made up and I think that from the slides that I think Sharon had up is the professional fees today to bid date, which is a total of about 1.4 million is that the tax, like that's what we're talking about if we keep going. It's that amount of money that would have to be covered. If we go all the way to the bid phase, which isn't that what we're sort of hoping to do right now that is what we're hoping to do but of course the town manager could say yes we're going to continue and then come back to us and say well. No we want to stop later on. Yes, that's what you were showing to be about $1.3 million from here to the bid phase. And then there was on the slide it said pause for two months. It gave this range from 700,000 to 1 million. That would be the increased cost of the project. If we would have just stopped all the work for two months. We're voting on right. That's whether or not we pause for two months or not. We're voting to recommend the motion that was made in second it is to recommend to the town manager that the work on the Jones library building project continue. That's what the that's what the motion is. Christina just countering. Can you hear me. I can now. Yeah. I'm just kind of like because we just said, if we say no to this motion that we have to ask where are we or whatever, but part of that where are we wasn't there or not because you all talked about this a little bit yesterday at the trustee meeting. Is it is the next option a two month wait, which we also heard our opium and our designer say they would, they were good with that, but I'm just, I heard things talked about yesterday at your meeting and. We can pause the project we could decide to pause the project for an hour. Two months is is a kind of arbitrary number that we that we were working with. I mean, we could say pause the project for a month. Pause the project for a week. So the two months that words in those slides, you know, it's just a figure that we chose let's see what would be what would it be but again you saw that we can tell you the cost per week of pausing. So that's not really an option. It's just go ahead or. There's the option is to do whatever this committee wants to recommend to the town manager. We could recommend to the do we could vote down this motion and recommend to the town manager that the project be paused for a period of time to be determined by and then say who it's going to be determined by. That's what I was just asking because it was on the. Yeah, yeah. Okay, I got Xander and then I got an ego and then I got Sean Xander. As much as I love deciding things. Given the, the, this committee was, you know, the, the voters past one budget. We're in a very different situation as acknowledged. If we want to defer to the town manager to say this is a town priority. Is that a vote to pause because we need to flip it back to Paul, or can this committee vote to go forwards, but the communication is that the town will stop if we exceed what the town is doing. That's the decision. So we can recommend that the work continue and Paul can say, I don't accept your recommendation. So that's what Sean was reminding us about that all we can do is recommend to the town manager and when I when I said what I said about I'm sure he'd be interested in what this committee has to say. I recommend that because this committee was designed to include people from the community. The trustees. It was designed to be kind of, I don't know, not representational exactly but to be inclusive. And I think it's really important that people on the committee make clear what it is that they want to say to the town manager. He doesn't want to go forward. He wants to pause. He didn't inform us. He'd say I've decided that I can't accept your recommendation. We need to make this decision or that decision we need to pause for a period of time. That's very helpful. But can I propose that one of the options is that we make no recommendation because it is the town manager's decision ultimately. Because I think saying we pause is going to send a message to voters saying that we move forward to sending a message to voters. At this point, this for me personally this is a conversation about larger town priorities as well. And so like, we defer to the larger town to set those priorities, I think is a, you know, we send a recommendation other than all of the input that we've had at these meetings already. Again the committee can can can do whatever it wants to do if someone wants to. And procedurally what we would do Xander is that amendment would not be an amendment to the motion. It would be a different motion so I think if you want to make no recommendation. If the committee wants to make no recommendation then the committee would vote against the motion that I've just made. And we would say to the town manager there's no recommendation one way or another. That would be in your lap. Isn't it a good thing that I studied parliamentary procedure in high school. No, okay. Anika. This may be repetitive but I want to be clear. Am I wrong in that it seems to pause both to pause and to proceed would be as similar financial risk. Yes, if we pause and then decide to proceed. It would be a greater. I mean, we got to escalate the cost of the project. If we pause and then decide not to proceed. Then the 1.3 that we would have spent between now in the building would the construction documents bid phase would not would not would not occur. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I sort of, I kind of agree with Anika that one thing I've learned the last five, 10 years is that pausing is never good. Nothing good comes from pauses. But I do think there's given what happened last night and just the magnitude of this decision there's a level of due diligence that the town manager and others need to kind of think through. I mean, I don't agree in favor of a pause but I do think we need a week or two longer to kind of get our arms around this and make a the best decision we can make. I think we have. Yeah, I think that's exactly right but I don't know that there's any reason for the building committee. The question about the financing of the project, the hose fits with town priorities is beyond our jurisdiction. It's based on the building and the town manager and conversation with everybody else anybody else he wants to. We'll make it will make it will make it will make a decision that if people feel that we don't have enough information to recommend to the top manager that we continue. Then they can vote against the motion is okay if I quickly respond Austin. It depends on whether you're going to agree with me. I'm not going to disagree but okay then go ahead. But then I might be disagree. So, you know one thing I'll say is the ropm again who's supposed to represent us who I think has been represented as well. One of the things they strongly recommend and they said at last time was that we don't advance until we have a balance budget, essentially until we have a funded project they said don't move from one phase to the next phase. Until you're at that point so I think, again that's part of the due diligence and work we need to do is how do we show we have that before we go to that next phase. My understanding actually was the opm said something slightly different at the last meeting. He said that is our general recommendation. But the opm is here to remind us which one of us has the clear recollection. I think it was Craig that mentioned that a couple of meetings ago and generally that is true with everything being equal. We would absolutely look to try to do that but times being what they are right now and the fluctuations that are happening in the market and the potential for corrections that are also going to be happening in the future. So that's our recommendation we continue forward, and we've been telling all of our clients this to get to a bid and to get bid certain because we don't know what's going to happen at the time of bid when the general contractors actually take a look at this. It could be favorable market conditions at that point, and we come under budget. We just don't know. And so it's it's our opinion, based on where we're seeing these numbers coming that we can march forward. Thank you, Ken. I don't is your hands up still residual or do you have another different question. I didn't. I do have a different question. Um, can I'm just curious. I heard you talk about how there's you expect, and I was, I love the optimism of there's going to be a market correction and therefore things are going to get better. But now I'm hearing, but hurry up and get to a, you know, bid certainty because we think certain things are going to get worse. And I'm just curious how those two things align. I would say things were going to get worse and or what I said is that escalation is a known factor. It's always going to happen. So the longer you wait, the more escalation is going to happen, whether it's 4%, like it normally is, or the 7 to 12% that it is right now escalation is going to be a factor on this and so the timing of this project is such that we're anticipating that there's going to be a hopefully a slowdown and a market correction on the escalations we get closer to bid date and that the escalation more closely aligns with how it typically is. But if we go beyond that it's still going to be 4% compounded annually, there's still going to be additional costs to the project. Okay. Christine and then Anika Christine. I of course want to vote to just keep moving forward, but I feel that I'm still missing some information that there's conversations that still have to go and happen within the town within with the trustees in the town and we have the town manager and the financial person on this board and like, I don't even know how they're supposed to vote on this when they know they have to go collect more information. So I know we're all like have to hurry have to hurry. How long does it take for those meetings in the town to figure out the rest of it like can we delay this a few days a week, like, do we have to do this right now, just wondering. Yeah, I'll just say, no one has to do anything right now. If the if this motion is defeated, then the question is what do we want to say to the town manager. Yeah, so Christine actually asked my question and and further. So this would be for both Paul and and Sean what how much I'm realistically or you know is there a timeline that you feel that you would need to review everything that you would need to to feel more to feel confident about making a decision. Paul. Yeah, so I mean, we'd want to have that conversation about the agreement between the town and trustees that's the key discussion. What kind of funds are we putting at risk if we if we continue to move forward I think our. The facts we have is that we have a vote of the people we have the vote of the trustees we have a vote of the council all saying we want this project to move forward and that's, that's my operating principle. The level is in the details. In terms of, you know, we've had some missed, you know, some conversations, I think that can happen if the building committee says we want, we think it should move forward that's something. But the discussion with how we are funding the next phase and how we're going to fund the phase after that the building thing is pretty as crucial. We have to, we have a lot of uncertainty right this moment. But we do need to have clarity we before we put additional town funds at risk. And what I'm understanding is that trustees are saying we've got you on that. And I want to make sure that that's clear. And that's that's what the trustees are saying and that's something we we need to make sure we hammer out the language on what that really means in my in my perspective. Paul, would it be helpful to you. I spoke for you and I shouldn't have. I assumed it would be helpful to you to know the disposition of the building committee at this point. But I think. Go ahead. It is this conversation actually has been very useful. I think the building committee is taking it their sort of responsibility very seriously and sort of really taking on the full mantle of what it means to move this project forward. And I think that that's really important and a credit to the town. I think what I'm hearing from building committee members, and I would abstain on this vote because it'd be, you know, a recommendation to you. Yeah, what do you guys say to you. I don't listen to myself myself anyway. But I think that it's, you know, I think the committee members are actually struggling with as we look at the full project. How do we, how are there some discomfort there I think is what I'm hearing from members of the committee. Well, we haven't heard from all the members. We have that committee. So if we want to hear from all the members of the committee, let's hear from all the members of the committee. There is another table, you're right. Yeah, I mean, that's a way for people to express themselves. Sharon. Yeah, so I want to say, so we, the Jones library building committee, we're not going to have any more information in two days or two weeks. We have all the information that we need. I think we have all in the other hand, you know, he and Sean that they have a different job to do. They're the ones who have to look at the bigger picture it's not our job. So I respectfully disagree with Sander. It is our job to look at what is best for the Jones library building project. That's our focus. I mean, I believe it is important that we as the Jones library building committee make this vote tonight approve this tonight, and then it can pass over to Paul and he's going to take as much time as he needs to work out with the town attorney and and with the library to make sure that all the ducks are are in line, which I believe they are and and he will come to see that as well after he does his research, and then he can move forward if we just wait a couple more weeks then we're just adding more costs to the project. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, does anybody else want to speak to this motion. Alex, and then Xander Alex. One. Again, I, you know, I said this in the trustee meeting and I delays concern me right a week two weeks I mean every time like you said we can we can break up by, you know, costs that were incurring per week. You know the trustees voted to move forward. You know, for me. I'm looking at this, again, you know as the chair of the buildings and facilities committee if this project doesn't go forward, then you know, this doesn't go away for us right. For me, I'm looking at, you know, a project where the town costs are set assuming that we all come to an agreement at 15.9 million and the onus is on the library who has the best fundraising team possible, a campaign, you know, committee that's doing the funding work. We have our state and federal legislators 100% behind this project doing anything and everything we can. There's ARPA money still available. There's you know there's there, there is a pot of money that exists right now in the state and federal level that won't exist likely forever. And my biggest concern fiscally is that we don't move forward with this project. And that means one of two things are going to happen. The town is going to wind up with a larger bill than they have right now, and or the library is going to slowly fall apart because we can't we can't sustain and stay open right now. And that's one of the problems in facilities committee meeting today. You know our head of facilities that are number one problem is our HVAC system which is the most expensive component, because it is the thing that prevents us from opening if we can't be open the hours we need to be open we don't get state funding for our library services so there's this whole cascade of effects and I think, you know if you're not living and breathing the actual maintenance issues of this library the way some people who are on the library are. I think sometimes people forget or don't fully understand the magnitude of the issues that we're dealing with at the library. It's not a matter of yes our carpets need replacing, but that's, you know, that's not the issue right right now. So I think we should choose our ability to stay open and provide services and I don't see us being able to do that into the future without significant funding from the town so I, while this number is scary to me, I feel like we couldn't have a better team to raise it. I don't want to be smaller, but fiscally, I think we will be in more trouble by not proceeding, because, you know, as a library falls into disrepair donations go down, right. You know our annual fund decreases as the library gets shabbier and shabbier and the town has got other projects we all know they have other projects so for me proceeding into design as quickly as possible to keep our costs. As low as possible is a priority and it is for me fiscally irresponsible not proceed it's a leap of faith it's scary. I'm terrified of it. I'm not going to lie. But I feel like I understand what the consequence of not going forward is and I think it's a bigger cost to the town and the end and a bigger cost to the library. I want to just really like commend the discussion that's happening here because I think people are being incredibly responsible, both to the project that we are tasked with and the community that we live in. I mean, in full disclosure, I work in a school the reason Paul might remember this but when I first talked about joining this committee, like the reason why I was interested was because I had a student who, when they could not be in school, went to the Jones to find a safe place until they could wait for their ride to show up because Jones was the space. Xander you're, Xander you're breaking up. It's very hard to hear you. And so when I talk about like we owe our teens a safe space here. Also, thank you. So like I really appreciate all that but I also know that when monies are being spent by the town and institution where they're repairing like it's not even one of the four big projects, they're repairing a giant track, and it's 20% of our budget. I do not feel comfortable with the fact that taxpayers voted to pass this had input on this and we are citing that as enthusiasm for the project. All before the additional cost that we are now looking at. And so in terms of informed consent, I don't think I can go back to the other members of my union to the members of my school community and say that the problem that originally brought me here as student coming to the library because I couldn't be at school in that moment is going to be diminished by this project. I actually worry that it is going to be exacerbated because of the fact that we're going to be spending money that we don't have and it's ultimately going to come out of other places that aren't being as responsible for things. And so I actually think it is politically wise for us not to be sending any recommendation to Paul, and let the town do that messaging and that work that this is a priority, because I do believe that they see this as a priority. But it doesn't need to come from us. I think that needs to come from them. And so I would vote against us having any recommendation to Paul, I believe it is for the town to do and recommend this project goes forward without any pressure from the library committee itself. Thank you, Sandra, I just want to make sure that I'm saying the right thing. At the low end of the the estimate. Based on what the trustees voted yesterday. There would be no increased cost to the time at the low end of the estimate based on the conversation that we had about cuts. And the pledge of $8 million in the endowment assuming the endowment could go down. It could go up. There would be no increased cost to the town. Okay, other other voices. Are we ready to vote. Oh, sorry, Christine. Christine you're muted. So we're voting right now. Will we vote again on this in a month or after we get more information and we actually go through cuts and costs and we're voting to recommend to the town manager that the project continue. And when the town manager makes up his mind that the project can continue, then we will go forward with the work. At some point later on, if there's something that comes up. And it appears that we can't go forward, then this committee will confront that and make a recommendation to the town manager. So it's weird that Paul you're here but so if Paul comes back and says, we have concerns. We don't think this can happen or the numbers too big we got to get the number down lower or whatever he says then we'll just go at this again sort of. Like what happens if the file comes back and says no. I think if the town manager comes back and says no, then the town manager will have thought about what all the contingencies are. And if he says no we're not going to go forward. We'd like to know, like why and what does that mean and as he recommended he's saying we're pausing is he saying we're not going to go forward at all. And Alex Lefebvre just indicated yet again, that this is not a we either we either go forward this project, or we just keep the library as it is. So, will the town I assume Paul you will do this. You're also going to be weighing like if you said no, what that means for the library and the maintenance and still renovating and you'd come back with some kind of plan or recommendation. And is it only from you and your town hall people or does town council get involved in this at all because it has. Paul, the contracting authority is the town manager, as long as it's within the appropriation that's been provided. And so that's the at this moment time that's where we are. Thank you. Okay, are we ready to, are we ready to vote. One of my friends says at this moment everything that has been everything that can be said has been said but not everybody has had a chance to say it. So is there anybody else who would like to weigh in now. Okay, let's proceed to a vote so vote the motion is to recommend to the town manager that work on the Jones library building project be continued. Sharon, how do you vote. Yes. Christine, how do you vote. Yes. George Hicks, Richards, how do you vote. Yes. Sean. Epstein. Anika. Yes. Alex. Yes. Xander. No. And Austin votes yes. And Epstein. I forgot to call on you Paul. All right, so I don't know if anybody was actually keeping track of that vote Sharon. Angie, were you keeping track of the vote. So would you just remind us what the vote was. I see one, two, three, four, five, six yeses to abstentions and one no. Okay. All right, well thank you very much I want to just say, as Xander said I really appreciate the conversation and the concerns and the thoughtfulness this project. Already is a better project than it would have otherwise been because of your involvement. And I think that this conversation reflected that very thing. So thank you very much for your thoughtfulness. I think we have a question of scheduling our next meeting. So I think we should go forward and schedule it for a couple of weeks from now, is that does that work. That would be on on the 6th of July does that work for people. By 6th of September, I am thinking backwards the summer is slipping away. Paul, I will not be in town that day. Well we need you. That's the Tuesday right. Yeah. Yeah, we need you. So with the 13th of work for everybody at. Could we meet at four o'clock on the 13th. Alex. Yeah, I just have a question in terms of procedurally. Just being tell me if I'm not understanding correctly that can, can you start the work or does the design committee need to make a recommendation on the cuts, which are then recommended to us which are then approved like are we adding. I'm just trying, trying to move as many weeks as I can from this so yeah, I mean if that's the case and we are pausing three weeks for our next, you know what I mean like I just. Like, as soon as Paul's made his decision and design committee has met so we can just. We're going down. Am I correct? Yes, we would need to meet we can't start tomorrow. That's correct that what you pointed out Alex we do need to sort of reconvene you folks probably need to meet and discuss how you want to move forward. We need a couple of design discussions or discussions in general, before we jump into the next phase. Could we do Thursday the eighth instead Thursday the eighth at 434 o'clock. What are we talking about. 4 o'clock on the on the 8th. So I'm going to make a suggestion and appreciate what Alex said and Paul with your forbearance. I wonder if we can get the design committee together in advance of that meeting to. You know, look, look at the things if we, you know, go forward we'll be able to talk about those things when the building committees next together if we don't well it'll be on an exercise. Okay, so let's let's plan to meet it on the eighth at 4 o'clock. Let's let Sharon and Angie and Christine put their heads together about when the between now and then the design committee can meet to dig in on the changes to the design. Okay, are we good with that. Excellent. I know of no correspondence. No topics non anticipated by the chair 48 hours in advance. The next item is public comment and we have 11 attendees and I'm grateful for those people for your attendance. Now your opportunity if you wish to make a public comment. I see two hands. So first Bob Pam Bob. Thank you. You didn't come through. As you may know, I am one of the trustees of the library, I voted against proceeding. And I proceeded, I voted against it on the basis of my own analysis of what the fundraising capabilities are. It is not to say anything against the abilities of the capital campaign. I think they've been doing a wonderful job. Yeah, it is not to say anything against the folks who've been involved with this committee and similar committees on the design of the work I think the the design work that had has been done is worthwhile and is useful. Clearly needs to have major work done on it. My concern is that as the treasurer of the library and the chairman of the budget committee and the investment committee. It seemed to me that this was a risk greater than we could accept. And I would be happy to talk about exactly why at any time that you want me to do so. Thanks Bob. I see. Jenny, I think you have your hand up and again we want to just make clear before you speak. How grateful we are to you and the people on the capital campaign for the work that you've that you've done. Jenny. Jenny. I'm going to get through the rejoining. Thank you. And thank you all. And I coming back mainly to say thank you. And as a reminder that we are committed to raise these funds and it is a challenge and that challenge is going to meet the challenge that's necessary. So with to the point of the larger issues by moving forward now and not adding cost escalations and getting us to bid numbers as Austin said earlier, we then have an actual number to work with the town does that the building and the capital campaign committee does. So that gives us as the campaign committee the urgency of this deadline or this milestone to motivate our donors. So within this next year getting to bid phase gives us time to turn over every stone and to look for those funds. And if we cannot, then we can we'll say so then and be able to then give the town and the trustees an honest appraisal of whether or not we can make up this gap or whether we have to pull the plug on this. So, moving forward now gives us the opportunity to realize what's possible and there are milestones built into this to make sure that we can do so responsibly. So I thank you all for your deliberations for all of this work. Thank you. Thank you so much and we look forward to the results going forward. Okay, any other member of the public wish to speak. Okay. So, I think it's time to adjourn. Thank you all for your good, good, good work. And we'll look forward to see you again soon. Thanks so much. Thank you.