 Alright, thanks for staying with us now. Referencing the nirometrics oil theft in Nigeria ranges from small scale to large scale, depending on the port of oil stations. Now, of course, the port of station, the size of pipeline and people involved among other factors, now oil theft, also known as illegal bunkering, is not a new menace in the oil and gas sector. It dates back over two decades ago. Now, this system involves a large chain of individuals, which includes security operatives and individuals from all walks of life, all having different roles to play. So, with 200,000 barrels stolen every day and having lost one billion dollars in the first quarter of 2022, the Nigerian oil theft market has continued to boom. Now, in 2020, Nigeria lost 15.71 billion worth of crude oil. This number skyrocketed to a whopping 1.67 trillion in 2021. Now, this continues to have a negative impact on the economy and today we're asking, is it even possible? Can oil theft be stopped in Nigeria? Please let's hear what you have to say. Remember, you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or WhatsApp to 0-1-803-466-3. You can also join us at Meshaw Afqa One with the hashtag we show. I think we have a video, right? The Asari Dukuba's video. If we can just probably see that video, then we'll come back to the conversation. I just want to say hello to my father. I've congratulated him before this time and to give a word of support for what he has achieved and what he has done so far. And I know that Nigeria had changed. Nigeria had turned 360 degrees in the positive direction. When I'm speaking about the president, I'm speaking from a personal point of view. I will do everything. I can stake everything to make my father, in quote, succeed. And that is a promise I've given to myself and a promise I've given to him. Oil theft will be stopped. That will be zero oil theft in Nigeria. Thank you very much. It is well, it is well. Where do we start from? For this oil theft issue. So there's a report on, I think it was Punch, right? That said that he alleged that the bulk cases of oil theft recorded, that's the Masari Dukuba. The bulk cases of oil theft recorded in the oil-rich region are traceable to the Nigerian army and Navy. It says the military is at the center of oil theft. And we have to make this very clear to the Nigerian public that 99% of oil theft can be traced to the Nigerian military and the army, the Navy especially. So he said this. However, he's pledging his support to the federal government to bring oil theft to zero. You know, toxic, cut it by 20%. Believing that the Tiananbu-led administration would fish out the culpable elements in the military. You know, I'm happy that this is coming from Asari Dukuba. It's not a regular Nigeria because it is an everyday Nigeria now. Maybe by now, DSS will be waiting for me in my doorstep after making that kind of statement, but these are strong allegations, but it's not actually new. Because we have always said it, that I always, we always reference the quote by Abacha that said that if insurgency or whatever, right, it goes beyond 24 hours. Just know that the hand of the government is involved. Like if it lasts beyond 24 hours, know that there is some level of backing, you know, from the government for it to continue to linger. And this case of oil theft, I don't know if you saw that video where one man went into a vessel. He was trying to give us a pictorial, what's he called, a pictorial narration of what a vessel looks like and what oil, you know, all the process. And he was explaining how it is impossible, you know, for this massive 15th to say, oh, it was how? Do you understand? Because even going on on that water and everything, there are military presence, Navy, especially, right? So how is it possible that you would wake up and say that this is not, we're not talking about a cup of crude food, right? I'm not talking about a 25 litre cake. From that research, it says over 200,000. What if they were able to even move that much quantity, right? There has to be somebody that is making sure that they are turning a blind eye. So that whatever kicks back, kickbacks, they are getting, you know, a steady flow. So is it even possible for us to stop it in Nigeria? With the rate at which it has gone, how it has grown, I don't even know what to say. I would like to be optimistic to say, you know what? Okay, since the president is talking tough. But this talking tough matter, not until today, we start to be hearing. Because they have been talking tough for a while. But at the end of the day, you don't see anything happening. Because the amount that this bunkery or this theft is feeding is quite wide. So if you catch me, I sing like a canary. And at the end of the day, it will pass, pass, pass and probably come back to you. So that's why it's impossible to catch. Because you can, it's a slippery slope. You can catch somebody and not induct a lot of people. Do you understand? So that's why I'm saying that when they are talking tough and saying, no, they can be ended and all of that. I'm wondering, is it possible? I don't think so. But let me hear your thoughts. That was, I read through his statement. That was a very strong, I don't know if to say allegation. For someone to say 99%, that's what I read. About 99% of the theft is caused by. It's traced. Yes, to the military and navy. The army as well. So again, like you just said, we need to move past the point where all this vague statement, like you're not hitting anything. Like you're just talking, you're not hitting. We don't have anything to hold on to. Okay, you have information. Okay, maybe it's classified. So if it's classified information, you're not willing to diverge everything. Why? Like raise people's inquisitiveness. Right? So because now I'm curious for you to come and say about 99%, because that's very strong. So before we think maybe it's a syndicate. But when you come to say, that's literally saying the government is 100%, if you say 99%, that's like saying 100% involved in this. So before coming out, why don't you even put our names, or maybe we should not have access to such names. So why don't you maybe do your underground, so first we should move past... So you want more details? More details, that's number one. And that's one thing I want to really, this new administration, that's one. Let's move past that vague, always come down to vague, always talking. Then you're also saying you will bring it to zero. Like it's just that easy. It's possible that it's easy. But you know what, let's go on a very quick break. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, right? If you have any... If you believe what Asari Dokubo has said, let us know and also if you have faith that it's possible to curb oil theft in Nigeria, let us know. Then probably tell us how you think it's possible. We'll do all of that. We'll take your comments when we come back from the break. Stay with us. Alright, thanks for staying with us. If you're just tuned in, we're discussing the topic can oil theft be stopped in Nigeria? Now please let's hear what you have to say. Remember you can join the conversation. It's up to the very 1-803-4663. You can also tweet at us at Weissho, after one of the hashtag Weissho. I wish we had an open house to the way we could take phone calls. But it's not our open... It's not a calling day. But on a serious note, right, I've said this thing several times. I don't even know how to say it. And I would like for us to see some level of transparency with our government, right? They say talk is cheap, right? What we need are, you know, like really, really measurable actions to say, okay, these are the actions that we've put in place. The former president in this country, former president is going to come out to say that Boko Haram was being sponsored by top government officials, right? We've heard different cases around, even the issues around the lingering crisis and all of that, both even with the... with different regions, you know, how they come and they tell you that the hand of the government is involved. And speaking truth to it, right, if somebody's not turning a blind eye, right, certain things will not happen in the magnitude at which it's happening. I mean, so we had a conversation with a lady that is very vast in the oil and gas industry today at my office, and we were talking extensively in the industry and how, for instance, petrol has been moved from Nigeria to other parts of the country, because if we're wondering what's happening with... what's it called? Cameroon. Why were they protesting our subsidy removal and all of that? It's because, again, over the years, people take this product and they take it to neighboring countries, right, and they're able to make so much profit. Because I kept on asking that, why can't we determine the consumption of fuel in Nigeria? On a daily basis, it's not impossible because when they ship in this product, right, first of all, we're not even sure of the quantity that was shipped, they would always hike whatever it is that they're shipping so that they can get more... was cash back from the government based on subsidy. That's on one hand. Secondly is, they can't even give you the number. So let's even say, okay, they shipped in 100 million litres. They cannot tell you the consumption on a daily basis within Nigeria because that 100 million litres, you can bet it that maybe about 30% of that or even 50% of that will go to other neighboring countries where they make more money. Again, remember, the price is different in those parts. So I remember going to the Ben-A-Republic, right, many years ago. I remember going to Ben-A-Republic. In fact, I did all the work. What was I thinking? Because I actually did the way they would do. You go on a bike, you stop, you get a point where you use a car and you go on a bike. It was ridiculous. But the guy is Ben-A-Noir. So he was saying that it can take me, you know, you just needed to get me a visa and I'll go to where I'm going or something. But hey, it was God that delivered me. But I remember that I was paying attention to what I was seeing in Ben-A-Republic. First of all, they have those kinds of cars that they have done something to the back of the cars where it's really elevated where they can now take it a lot of heavy loads. Most of those cars are used to smuggle petroleum products into Ben-A-Republic. Then, what I didn't notice even within their water, you saw kegs. You just see boats or a canoe or whatever, loaded with kegs. I kept on asking, what are those things? In my head, I was thinking maybe they are palm wine or maybe palm oil or something. I said, no, those are petrol. That's how they ship in petrol into Ben-A-Republic. So these are small scale. Yet, me could see them. So when somebody now decides to steal an entire vessel or in huge quantities, it's not possible. Now, those guys, mind you, they are checkpoints where they pass police people and they just give them their bribes and they move on. Do you understand? They don't stop them. These are the noble level. Now imagine what the bribery and the level of what's it called, cash that is being exchanged for those kinds of quantity of oil. The quantity of oil that is being stolen. It is obscene. Many years ago, a young man had graduated from NDA Nigerian Defense Academy. And from nowhere, he was posted to President Jonathan's home country or be home state. Assigned to the president's son, he was part of the detailing and all of that. And all that, at some point, they now moved him. The young man posting in the army, where he was in the army, to those kinds of borders where they do like what's it called, oil regions and all of that, where they post them to all those borders. It is like you are posting them to the juiciest positions. Because this boy from Zeru all of a sudden started having so much money. Where was the money come from? And he was honest enough to tell us that this was it. And you know that on just one transaction, on one thing or two, that is somebody that just graduated. Now imagine what the military chiefs, the top ranking officers, are taking back. So if I ask the question, can oil theft be curbed? Or according to Saidi Dukubo, that it can bring it to ground zero? Zero. A lot of people have to be jailed. Some people have to go down for it in terms of literally leaving this planet earth for it. Because it's not going to be an easy fight. So is the president willing to do that? Do you understand? Will he be willing to jail people? Will he be willing to, what's it called, execute people self in all of these things? Will he be willing to go and say, you know what, for every penny that I've been stolen, we'll seize all your assets, try to recoup our money, is the president ready? Because now from what Saidi Dukubo said, because I've tried to go back to Saidi Dukubo, since we have an ankle for it, he said that the president, if he's willing to fish them out, he can't fish them out. So does this now tell you that over the years, the reason oil theft has lingered is because the people in authority have not just had the will power to stop it. So what would then make this administration different from? Interesting. Like you rightly said, this is like a chain reaction. So if people or if this administration is willing to do the needful to stop this or cop this, let me start by saying first, it can actually be coped. But it's a matter of willingness. The people in authority are they willing to go all the way? Because so many people are involved in this and like you said, so many people will go down and are they willing to take that step? Aside the government too, even the people most of these multinational companies involved in all the drilling and all of that, they also have a responsibility so I think it's the combination of different factors working together almost simultaneously. The government implementing measures and making sure that whosoever is caught or whosoever has been involved in this is persecuted and the needful is done and also some of these companies that are involved in or for example I don't know Shell, I think some companies involved in this having CSR That's a no-b-c-s-r or a turn down No, no It has a role to play because So CSR would only cater to for instance community development and engagement to make sure that the host communities are doing well. Okay, if you want to look at the real origination of this if you go back to history the real origination was people felt like these people are taking their resources, there is no even till now people still have that complaint they always spillage and all of that so people still have and they say okay, since you're destroying our environment and we're not seeing the benefit so it's because you can't really not do this without involving the locals and how do you take their minds off it it's when you implement social So do you think that it's actually the locals that are stealing this oil? Not just them alone, that's why I said You know that they're actually those they call them modular refineries where the locals you see so even the locals the kind of oil they steal is not to the extent of the quantity that we have with this particular one that we're losing billions of dollars so I get you and you're 100% correct I'm only saying that it's beyond because now and I'll tell you for free anybody coming into your country right to say I want to come and do if I come to you now and I want to do business with you I'm finding a way to make sure that I milk every opportunity that I get to make more profit and more money do you understand? so you'll be shocked that by the time they truly if the president listens to Asahi Dokubo's counsel and he starts to truly fish out these people you might be shocked that these same people that you're talking about might be fully involved in the in the movement because of course it's free it's cheap this thing the diamonds in South Africa the ones that they call blood diamonds how did that name come about people's lives so even with we're talking about oil we've not even touched our mineral resources our minds how we've been exploited these companies are coming and they want to do business but they take advantage of the fact that we do not have a process I feel it is beyond you coming on air and saying that the president knows these people the military did these, the darts is involved what exactly would the fight for to stop oil theft look like to me as a Nigerian I don't know about any other person I keep saying this thing maybe one day we'll play that video the video of Dubai I think it was the oil minister because how they monitor the oil they have big screens everywhere it's like a situation in the room okay we're going there so where you are actually from when it is explored, brought out from the ground and how it passes through and refined and everything they follow the leader to the very drop do you get what I'm saying so if our president says he wants to curve um end oil theft first of all what who are the people that he's talking to in terms of what's he called now in terms of engagement to deploy technology secondly you cannot command the people that have been accused now as thieves because the story I took I think about 2 or 3 weeks ago when the president commanded the service chiefs to go and end oil theft and suddenly the group was coming out today to say that oil theft is strongly tied to the same military navy and army the same people you sent so it's like I have stolen the cheese you're not telling me to go and bring make sure that the cheese is not stolen so I don't understand how it will make sense so for me I think yes oil theft can be stopped but if you really want to stop oil theft first of all go to the economies that have gotten it right what are the technologies and the truth about life now with this age you don't need to reinvent the wheel all you need to do as far as I am concerned go and study a model this model what did it cost for you people to get where it is replicate that model and drop it where you are do you understand that it will tell me that we are beginning to head somewhere taking out subsidies the money or whatever income that is generated from those subsidies how can we channel that into deploying technology to ensure that every barrel or every liter is monitored and nothing is stolen when you do that it tells me that you are ready but as long as we continue the rhetoric and we continue as business as usual it is impossible for us to stop oil theft in the way we are going we must be very honest and sincere with ourselves because you know why talking tough we have seen it in our lifetime we have seen that talking tough in Nigeria is just they call it initial grand-grand it doesn't change anything go ahead so I was just thinking it's more or less a question so with the removal of subsidy isn't it going to make crude oil more attractive in terms of the prices making it more difficult to even call it at this point so now I don't even know how to tie that question to for my understanding subsidy was done for people that import finished products into the country so for instance I am an oil marketer or whatever and I say you know what every month I have to import 10 million liters of petrol into Nigeria to sell to the Nigerian market right so whether I import 10 million liters in true sense or not here Mio I get paid a subsidy for that 10 million liters so what has happened with subsidy over the years is that people were just collecting money whether they brought it in or not somebody was covering up for them and approving that yes they actually checked and they saw that they brought in 10 million liters in exchange of in a greasing of pounds within that value chain so subsidy removal I don't really see how it impacts the crude do you understand because the only thing I can say is that most of these people I understand that most of these people still crude they actually still it in exchange for finished products so it is just it is a mess but honestly speaking I want to beg the president and his advisors I am tired of talking don't talk tough action anybody that wants to kill some things you know you know is very easy like for instance if you start a people less transaction if you start a people less transaction it is difficult for corruption to happen there is a particular gym that is now everywhere they have huge franchises everywhere you go they are really really expanded the first day I walked into that gym and I wanted to register they told me there is no cash everything was done virtually so you see the people that are there they only have to get creative to earn money to earn money right? that is not touching the bottom line of the business owner so they now have to bring in what is it called? tutors like private trainers fitness trainers and all that I can give you private lessons if you pay with private tutors for the gym this is the cost but if you have one or one arrangement I can give you a discount but in terms of like using the gym and all of those things and most of the things within the facility is all automated so the only thing I am afraid of because this is part of the conversation I had with the lady that came in my office today was how would the deploring of technology impact the cost of the production I think all of these things glory if the government is sincere these are the time to use these things touches the very core of everybody yes so if at all you are used to collecting kickbacks or you are used to like inflating things because I ask that person today how much does a little land this country let's even know let's not go by NMPC's things so if I go now I say I want to go and buy XYZ number of barrels or maybe a one ton whatever shipment into Nigeria if I client if I do everything and all of those things how much is the landing cost nobody has been able to give me that answer do you understand because if I know the landing cost I know that at the end of the day regardless of whatever it is by the time they put their profit and their mark on I will be okay it will not be too heavy on me so with this petroleum industry especially for PMS the government have to like strip every every cobweb and just make it a very transparent and clean process and let's start to see what exactly it is that we have back it up with data back it up with technology let's see all of those things today is just a long day for talk I'm not tired do we have comments? okay no name Asari the Kubo is seeking favor relevance in president Tsunubu's administration why is he not mentioning names is he free from that allegation because people have also accused the same Asari that he is the one vandalizing those pipelines so that the government can come back and employ him to protect it do you understand what I'm saying? it's just a messy thing and that's why I'm saying that for us if you as a government you're not ready to go and engage technology drivers it is impossible for us to grow do you understand? it is impossible for oil theft to be stopped until you are ready and don't tell me it will end or it will kill it I mean enough of the too much talking let's just see the actions thank you oil theft is stopped in Nigeria I think enough is enough then I don't know if it's my dear beautiful sister who I made mention of the people being jailed for oil theft and made to face the music which I agree some people make illegal wealth through oil theft some things something has to be done to stop oil theft in Nigeria if we are really really serious to move the country forward people are being encouraged to smuggle oil out without thorough investigation and monitoring this is deadly and dangerous my name is Daniel Edo thank you Waze, regular fan I mean thank you so much but today has been an interesting conversation it's just to have it's me and Glory in the studio today that's why she made me talk too much but hey we have to revisit that penis matter I have to go back let me just say let me put out a disclaimer all our technical guys they say they disagree but hey it's not about the size of the penis trust me once the person knows how to use it well so Nigeria can we stop oil theft? I'm not so sure but honestly speaking I think for everything that is bad to end in this country it just takes willpower once there is willpower we will see results I'm hopeful I'm actually optimistic that Nigeria will do better that's all we got just to be hopeful thank you so much Glory I think this was good so before we go I show you photos across all our social media handles at Waze Show Africa you can interact with us further drop your comments and share your thoughts and invite your families and friends to watch and follow the conversation so if you missed our quote for today here it is again it says the military is at the center of oil theft and we have to make this very clear to the Nigerian public that 99% of oil theft can be traced this is very strong to the Nigerian military the army the navy especially this was for Masari doku boys don't come for me we'll see you guys on Monday at 8pm and bring another great conversation to your screen