 Episode 7 of the Dynasty, focusing on one of really the most ludicrous scandals in sports history, Deflate Gate. Tom Brady's once pristine character, now being questioned. Something that hit the quarterback quite hard. Welcome to our dynastic post-show here on NBC Sports Boston. We've got Michael Holly, we have Tom Kern, I'm Phil Perry. Guys, want to get your quick reaction to what you saw from the Deflate Gate episode. That's where we're going to start. We're talking episodes 7 and 8 tonight. What did you think of episode 7, Tom? Really brought you back to a lot of the emotions that you felt in real time because, you know, in the post, after that Deflate Gate game, after their dominant went over the Colts, and the reporting that began, you said to yourself, it's the same old song and dance. And then by the time that Chris Mortensen Tweet came out later in the week, I think we all kind of grabbed our pitchforks because we had no idea what two pounds of PSI meant. Well, if 11 of the 12 balls of that deflated, two pounds, I'm like, I don't know how two pounds. So, and then as it starts to move along, you start to realize, we got hoodwinked, and we're being hoodwinked and put up to this by a league that is desirous of something happening because all the teams that had been steamrolled finally rose up and found that smoking gun that they thought. I remember it like yesterday. My oldest who is now a ninth grader was in kindergarten. And so I remember taking him to school the next day. The principal of the school says, hey, what do you think of this thing? This football thing, this PSI? And I said, that's nothing because this is day one. I said, that's nothing. They won the game 45 to 7. You really think we're going to be talking about air pressure in footballs? Like it's a big deal? I just still can't believe it. I didn't believe it then. He said, I told you. I didn't believe it then. I don't believe it now feel that we spent so much time talking about PSI and the ideal gas law and all of these things. And it's the only time in football history that we've talked about it. Like, have you mentioned it? Have you thought about it in the last five years? Never not once. And it's not just that. It's the elements that's then started to circulate. I mean, I was at the Southern Court, Southern District Court in New York multiple times, having to break down paragraph 46, having to write down notes because we couldn't have any recording devices and then call into our boss's time by our tone so we could write things up, sitting in the courtroom watching these things unfold and really being given an introduction or at least a reminder of the power of a corporation when enough of its members, board members, say that team's got to go. What I found interesting was that this episode, they do a good job. The dynasty people do a good job of showing just how absurd the entire thing was and reminding us of that over and over and over again. And yet, showing us some really emotional moments that occur throughout and you get to some fractures and relationships. But I do want to start back at the beginning because one of the most fascinating quotes to me was early in episode seven with Adam Vinitieri, old friend Adam Vinitieri saying they were our biggest rival. They were the ones who were preventing us, us being the Colts from getting to the Super Bowl every single year. We knew they had to be doing something and that struck me as a former Patriots saying something like that because that would necessarily Adam remove some value from the three Super Bowls you won with the Patriots previously because this is only going to add to their reputation as cheaters. Michael, would you think of that quote from Vinitieri early? That is coming from Vinitieri that and we always forget he spent more time with the Colts than he did with the Patriots and at that point he thinks that he is an Indianapolis Colt and so he kind of takes on their anger and their grievances with the Patriots and it's almost like smart people knew better but once they were outside of the Patriots atmosphere they started thinking like everybody else and they were just frustrated. A lot of it was frustration. Sure we got the deflator, we got Dorito Dink, we got all this stuff that was not addressed in the dynasty but if you really just take a 30,000 foot view of it you say what are we talking about? Why are we why Tom remember you said you know Southern District how about in the middle of summer I think it was June or July Tom Brady goes to the NFL offices and spends like 10 hours he's like a deposition with the lawyers and Roger Gadel talking about Tom Roger saying Tom tell us again how you like the footballs and they're all trying to set them up they gotta ah gotcha it's weird. It was weird and when you look at it too the Patriots were whether it was Jeff Fisher and the Titans whether it was Ursay and Ryan Griggs and with the Colts whether it was John Harbaugh with the Ravens whether it was the Steelers they were blocking every team and while they weren't winning Super Bowls until at the end of that season they were continually there and I think these teams said look they're not doing it above board and that was all they could come up with and it mattered because it was the Patriots San Diego Charges I think they had a towel that they used to aid with gripping of the football I mean I know this stuff backwards and forwards I can give you instances after instances that we know of other things having happened they weren't looking for a murder weapon they were looking for a crossed line on the highway to try and jail Tom Brady for 10 years and the further removed we get from it the more absurd it seems but at the time everyone everyone the league Tom Brady the Patriots themselves they took it seriously to flake it provided us with some of the most memorable sound bites in Patriots history we have some here Tom's personal preferences on his ball footballs are something that he can talk about in much better detail and information than I could possibly then I could possibly provide can you answer right now is Tom Brady a cheater I don't believe so I mean I feel like I've always played within the rules I would never do anything to break the rules and I believe in fair play and I respect the league I'm not a scientist I'm not an expert in footballs I'm not an expert in football measurements I'm just telling you what I know would not say that I'm Mona Lisa Vito of the football world we could keep going you all god there are so many there my faith in the league you just get in this ridiculous back and forth you get some real examples of humanity being shown at the podium yeah I was in there for all these press conferences whether it's Robert Kraft before training camp much later where you know he's expressing real anger towards the NFL Bill Belichick there real defensiveness early and then almost cartoonish defensiveness with the Mona Lisa Vito press conference later which they actually don't show in the docu series Tom Brady completely bewildered at the podium there Tom it was interesting to me the humanity that we saw from these guys and the emotion involved in all these press conferences which we will never see again all over deflated football yeah and by humanity I'm not sure if you mean hey they were being nice to each other I think in the early days it was it's on him it's on him it's on him okay you know what no more it's on him and Bill said I'm gonna fix this as best I can and speak on it and it was a Saturday afternoon the day before they were traveling to the Super Bowl and we were told as we sat in the media room Bill's gonna come out and talk to you guys and by then all the national media had left so it's me Phil Giardi Mike Reese like we gotta ask everything the whole country's gonna be what we did we asked everything that's when you asked a great question you said hey hey now now we got you here Bill how about spy gate and he goes what did he say to you it was a great line 80,000 people I mean we're not the only ones who are doing it so you got insight into that but and then when they get to the Super Bowl Robert Kraft turns it and says that we demand an apology and then in May in San Francisco he says we're gonna stand down then by it was unbelievable to watch but what was so fascinating were the relationships I think behind that because Bill did eventually stand in front of some of the slings and arrows that were coming at Tom certainly but also at the same time this was a byproduct of I think of Bill saying to himself this guy has a lot of friggin work man yeah it can be a lot of friggin work and I like your line Phil you can talk about the humanity of it because sometimes human nature when you're under pressure and there's chaos your first instinct is to protect yourself and then as Tom says you come back and think of it later think okay what what's the best thing to do we're we still have to get to a Super Bowl and win this thing it gets a very good team that it won at the year before in the Seattle Seahawks so humanity first instinct Robert Kraft is trying to protect relationships he has in a league he's got a good relationship with the commissioner but he's mad at the league he wants to protect protect a relationship he has with the commissioner Bill Belichick know they got him with spy gate and if this is on him this is a real trouble for his career and then Tom Brady hears Bill say this about ask our quarterbacks and he starts thinking about the guy you drafted in the second round exactly in the spring and Jimmy Garoppolo oh that's your what so what are you doing I was I had questions about you then in the spring now I have questions about your way you're handling this so I think there were a lot of emotions a lot of undercurrents here that they finally were able to overcome and oh who knows win a game win a Super Bowl and they had you know Jarell Rivas there which we saw a little bit earlier talking about the emotional outpouring from Tom Brady in real time bawling in front of his teammates saying I would never do anything like this I'm curious in terms of the docu series itself they do ask Tom Brady anything you'd like to say about the deflated footballs now that we're so many years removed from it because with the trip to the bathroom which you detail so well Tom in the back and forth with the dynasty people the text messages about the deflator like he had an opportunity there to say something about it didn't add to it did that surprise you at all it didn't surprise me when you look back at what the Brady family I think and you hear from Galen and Tom Brady senior Galen Brady's mom they really attribute in large part the illness that she was afflicted with soon thereafter to so much of the stress that they incurred now I'm not a doctor but that is how they feel what the Brady family went through in that now I think Tom could I think realistically we can look at this and say well they must have done something at some point to the there's too many text messages too many circumstances but I think Tom wouldn't want to revisit it in the fact that look I've staked out this position I've gotten this far I'm not going to say well I mean they might have tried to get it back to 12.5 the bottom line is I think it was extremely painful we all knew it was a jaywalking situation and it got prosecuted like a felony and I'll say quickly Tom Brady when this happened was 37 it was the first time imagine this the first time in his career that he had been criticized roundly and consistently by the local and national media at 37 years old now how many quarterbacks can say that it got so absurd to the point I wish they included this where Tom Brady senior calls into a talk radio station and says you don't know what you're talking about yeah Roger Goodell is a liar I mean all of these things happen and I think it changed it changed Tom Brady it's interesting too this gives you some insight into that I talked it's far enough down the road talk to mr. Brady at they said Tommy's mad Tommy does not want me doing that because he's very concerned that he will be blackballed by the league if he continues to speak out or we continue to speak out and he will never get a job in this league again and you know we don't know where he's going to be right now with the Patriots but he does not want to be black bulb so Tom Brady saw mortality to his career an incredible time in every sense of the word we got much more coming up episode eight about the FU tour in 2016 coming up we're diving into episode eight which details just how hard it was for Tom Brady to play for Bill Belichick as well stick around check out the Patriots talk podcast for much more on the dynasty series you can scan the QR code on the screen or find it on your favorite podcasting app or on YouTube episode eight of the dynasty focusing on that rocky relationship between Tom Brady and Bill Belichick Matthew Slater checked in with some fascinating quotes throughout the episode saying at one point quote during that 2016 season Tom was unbelievable but coach Belichick being coach Belichick helped Tom to an even higher standard than everyone else do I think Tom felt disrespected yeah I think so I don't think I would want to be treated differently but I would want a certain level of respect especially as a grown man then there was Wes Welker adding some color to the series here as well he told Tom Brady you know Tom he very easily could have been like all right Bill screw you man play somebody else weak one I personally talked to Tom and was like you're basically like an abused dog you just sit there tail between your legs and you just keep on coming back so we're back here with Michael Holly and Tom Curran I felt as though those quotes and especially from Matthew Slater who we know has had a good relationship as far as we know with Bill Belichick for a long time to say some of those things not anymore to me is is almost boiling down into two or three sentences the real crux of the issue for Brady and Bill Belichick if he felt like he wasn't being respected as a guy who had established himself as the greatest player of all time that would cause a rift yeah and that's what's hard is you know as we're reporting it we are as individuals taking it through the filter of the people who might be involved or close to the people involved and as a result we don't have it from the horse's mouth on the record there were plenty of instances where I was told whether being Brady himself or Gronkiness this is tough but hearing teammates who are otherwise very solidly Bill admirers and devotees say it was over the line is really instructive and helps to amplify that this is not a crusade against Bill it is laying out this is how it was it really worked well for a long time but when Bill had had enough of Tom he made life really hard for Tom that's the issue I mean that really you just said it that's what it comes down to Bill decided that it was enough and it's the irony is Bill as a coach was always making was mocking the hey do what they do franchises those coordinators those head coaches do what they do those who are not adaptable he you know he made a lot of money yeah you know just dominating those guys but yet in this situation where he rightly planned for life after a 37 year old quarterback that's smart business you got a plan for that guy you don't know when that guy is going to uh just just implode but when it was clear that it wasn't going to happen with Tom Brady he refused to adjust and he just made up his mind that Brady couldn't stay anymore even though there was tremendous evidence to the contrary that Brady was at the top of his game Bill wouldn't get off his original position and that's where the conflict that's where the dysfunction the tension as crab pointed out from tension to dysfunction happened and it feels as though Tom given the up-to-date interview that we saw with Bill Belichick during this episode he hasn't moved all that far off his spot now we believe that Tom Brady and Bill Belichick are in a much better place now right but at one point at one point he's asked about Brady's performance in that Super Bowl against the Atlanta Falcons he says well Tom's performance is like anybody else's it's a function of what's around him you know not many people could have done what Tom Brady could have done especially at that point in his career I would say as a viewer yet nobody could have done Tom Brady did at that point in his career and he is unbelievable and that would be a good point to throw Tom Brady his flowers and he shows not to yeah I think they're at a point now where they understand each other and I think that Brady is very much conciliatory it says as he said in the first episode it was perfect why do we have to change it because there were going to be some eggs broken in making the beautiful omelette that was this dynasty so I think they've moved past that but in the real time of it it was constantly Brady looking for approval and affection that wasn't forthcoming which then got spun to this guy's the diva he wants everything and finally that's what led to the post-2016 once he's won his fifth Super Bowl where Brady said you know what I keep doing it his way I keep my profile low I don't worry about Tom it's time to worry about Tom a little bit and that's what happened after 2016 and he was the opposite of a diva but you know we're talking about kids it's like any other kid who's looking for approval I'm doing the right things and you still you are I'm doing the right things but you're not saying the right things parent okay how do I get your attention I won't do the right things in your eyes and I'll turn it around and maybe maybe now you'll pay attention to what I'm doing and that's what happened build and respond he never responded when Brady was doing everything Brady speaking to the team after 2000 after the 2007 defeat to the Giants first meeting of 2008 he stands there and he's crying he's you know imploring the offensive line controlling the huddle all these great quarterback traits that you want from a franchise quarterback gets no love from Bill Belichick he didn't get Bill Belichick's attention until Tom he doesn't show up for OTAs and now Bill really has a hair across his and and the relationship gets even worse to me I think one of the most interesting things about the Brady Belichick relationship is the way in which Brady finally self-actualized and I think it's also fair to look at this and say Bill built the team a certain way but by 2015 2014 even 15 16 17 he now had on his hands a super team and someone once said to me within the organization this year Bill would rather take Navy and beat Notre Dame than take Notre Dame and win a national championship that's kind of look I have this overwhelming favorite what do I do with this thing I like it better when I'm just trying to outsmart people this episode does a great job of using the Jimmy Garoppolo draft pick again another press conference we were there for a year asking great questions Bill Belichick after the fact and framing that as how the psychology of this relationship evolved over time and we got a great quote from Robert Kraft discussing of Bill Belichick being prepared to move on from Brady as early as 2014 quote I think Bill thought Tommy was starting to lose it I remember Bill used to show me different statistics Tommy's throws over 20 yards were ranked near the lowest in the league and Bill said we have to be ready to move on Tom what I want to ask you is do you feel as though Bill Belichick would have moved on had that Falcon Super Bowl not played out the way he did or it did the way it was playing out yes when Tom Brady throws a pick a pick six to J. Alfred I believe it was might be I have the wrong guy Robert Alfred Robert J. Alfred was 2007 Super Bowl one of the biggest hits we've ever seen on Brady yeah at that point you have a hole that Tom Brady helped dig if it goes on that way and they lose 41 to 10 and Jimmy Garoppolo has got an expiring contract and Tom just pooped himself in the Super Bowl and you have to now try and think how you're going to have Tom under the cap I think it could have changed the entire arc of the organization I think that Bill had his smoking gun to present to Robert he did it in the Super Bowl now it's not just 20 yards downfield or more than where he's weak we watched it and instead you watched the greatest performance play a quarterback in Super Bowl history yeah you know it's interesting uh just quickly yeah Brady wasn't great with the pick six but the defense was getting the defense looks slow was getting torched that was kind of like uh foreshadowing of what the problem was with the Patriots defense they were not playing at the same speed as the Atlanta Falcons but of course Bill if you have an agenda that a guy has to go you focus on that negative and not the not the totality of it all do you disagree with that do you think that Brady even he had had over a 12 game oh he was a VP of that season I believe and I don't think Robert Kraft would have allowed it I don't think he would have allowed it either but I think he should have been a VP but Matt Ryan got it that Ryan ended up putting it um we have to hit on what was maybe the the highlight of episodes seven and eight this quote from Scott Piolli you guys both know Scott Piolli really well uh recalling the feeling in the room when the Falcons had that 28 to three lead over the Patriots and he says quote all the folks I'm working with they're high fiving it's out of control but I was a mess I felt this nervousness and as I'm sitting there someone slaps me on the back and says come on Scott lighten up you got to enjoy this moment and I just erupted and I whipped around and I said you effing people you don't get it that guy number 12 across the field he's pretty epic Kruger he's coming back he's gonna get a bunch of yeah Phil I just hope he doesn't get us all did he actually say this is what I want to know because that is one of the most dramatic moments in NFL history in terms of the behind the scenes stuff that we don't get to see in real time I'm gonna say this Jeffrey Wright is nominated for an Oscar this weekend uh Paul Giamatti Scott Piolli on a list to is a great dramatic retelling I don't believe Scott said it exactly like that uh Scott is right he probably did erupt and he says some things I can't say right here on NBC sports Boston I don't know if they were as poetic as that but I'm sure he did in all seriousness he knew he had he has great respect for Brady and at that time he's an assistant GM of the Falcons and he knows don't get comfortable around Brady so I'm sure he told some people off and it was pretty profane you know I think it's interesting too when we look at these two episodes one focuses on a controversy a witch hunt and the fallout from that but you don't see a lot of that incredible Super Bowl which I think might have been the best ever in 2014 and then so much of this focuses on the Brady and Belichick and Garoppolo situation I think this is is where it's hard for a Patriots fans who've seen America's game and do your job and and everything else who probably watched this and say well this is this is an awesome magazine National Enquirer had lines only situation and I could see their gripe yeah you know what I would say the filmmakers never promised us a step-by-step retelling of the dynasty I wanted it but they didn't promise that this is based on a book and that's the key based on and I think they just went through the storylines America enjoys it Phil maybe New England wants a little bit more in the weeds football hopefully our viewers are enjoying this show we've got one more next week we're talking episodes nine and ten we'll see you here Friday six o'clock